Re: [Texascavers] book review: Twelve Miles from Daylight

[Stefan Creaser via Texascavers]

If anyone wants one then perhaps Crash can get them with a bulk discount at 
'Convention?

-Stefan

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Jim 
Kennedy via Texascavers
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:18 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: Jim Kennedy <cavercr...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Twelve Miles from Daylight

They are available from the authors here at the NSS Convention for only $44.95. 
I bought mine on Mindy.

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
> <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
> "Twelve Miles from Daylight: Fort Stanton Cave and the Snowy River 
> Discovery." Edited by Pete Lindsley and Lee Skinner. Fort Stanton Cave Study 
> Project, Placitas, New Mexico. ISBN 978-0-939748-83-9. 9 by 12 inches, 
> softbound, vi+306 pages+foldout. $54.95.
>

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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Twelve Miles from Daylight

[Jim Kennedy via Texascavers]

They are available from the authors here at the NSS Convention for only $44.95. 
I bought mine on Mindy. 

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> "Twelve Miles from Daylight: Fort Stanton Cave and the Snowy River 
> Discovery." Edited by Pete Lindsley and Lee Skinner. Fort Stanton Cave Study 
> Project, Placitas, New Mexico. ISBN 978-0-939748-83-9. 9 by 12 inches, 
> softbound, vi+306 pages+foldout. $54.95.
> 
> For too many years, Fort Stanton Cave has been in the shadow of New Mexico’s 
> Lechuguilla Cave, the subject of several books, one published in three 
> languages and one a trilogy of e-books. This new large-format book should go 
> far to redress that. Since the 1950s, organized cavers have extended the cave 
> to over thirty-one miles of passage, including the amazing Snowy River 
> Passage that runs eleven miles north-south and gives the overall line-plot on 
> a topo map an extent that appears to dwarf famous caves that are in fact 
> longer. There are color photographs on most pages, including over thirty 
> full-page ones. Simple maps of parts of the cave clarify the geography. While 
> there is a lot of other information, the bulk of the text consists of trip 
> reports by a large number of authors, which should enhance its appeal to 
> cavers.
> 
> There have been significant delays in exploration caused by a persnickety 
> owner for such things as environmental assessments, but overall the BLM seems 
> to have been reasonably accommodating. In the early years, efforts focussed 
> on long and arduous digs in the old part of the cave that resulted in its 
> considerable expansion. Things changed dramatically on September 1, 2001, 
> when a dig led to the discovery of the Snowy River Passage, largely walking 
> and in places providing plenty of obvious good leads. The passage gets its 
> name from the layer of white calcite that coats the floor of the stream bed 
> for its entire length. The passage proved not all that easy to follow. To 
> avoid soiling the Snowy River, parties had to change from dirty to clean 
> clothes every time they had been forced to walk on mud banks or breakdown by 
> some obstruction, and eventually even small, fast parties of young and fit 
> cavers were making “day trips” over thirty hours long; sometimes they 
> returned with over a mile of new survey. The project was eventually given 
> permission to establish a campsite near the far end of exploration, but it 
> has been used only twice.
> 
> Perhaps the most impressive single accomplishment in the book is the digging 
> and shoring of a new and safer access shaft to the Snowy River. This is over 
> forty feet deep, and 222 cavers are credited in an appendix with helping in 
> the effort.
> 
> The several people credited with checking and proofreading have done a good 
> job, and the text is clear and mostly free of errors. The layout is garish 
> and ignores some common standards. The reader will have to dodge the numerous 
> and often lengthy sidebars in some of the early chapters, but later chapters 
> are better organized. Don’t ignore the sidebars, though. They contain a lot 
> of historical information, impressions and reports by many cavers, and 
> science notes. The most important event in the entire book, the discovery of 
> the Snowy River Passage, is buried in a sidebar at the end of chapter 6. The 
> photographs are well selected and well prepared, although I wonder whether 
> some of the colors are not exaggerated. Appendices include a glossary and an 
> index that is thorough but lists people by their first names.
> 
> As this is written, based on a final PDF of the book provided by Pete 
> Lindsley, the cave has been closed by the BLM because of white-nose syndrome, 
> and anyway travel in the Snowy River passage has been forbidden for the past 
> couple of years because the steam is flowing and it is feared that the 
> calcite floor will be too delicate when wet. It is not yet clear how much of 
> the time the stream flows; this is not the first time that has been seen. The 
> government also doesn’t want cavers to push beyond its property lines. I kind 
> of hope they have and are just not talking about it. In any case, we’re sure 
> to eventually hear a lot more about this spectacular cave. Meanwhile, buy 
> this book.
> --Bill Mixon
> 
> Nature is a hanging judge.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Caving Basics

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

Caving basics:
Back in the last year of 1960's I got into caving. Clark Santos took me to
a caver party. The cavers were allied with the Rangeroos at the time. A keg
of beer and a band playing cool music was a great way to recruit. The next
thing was a trip to Bustamante. A GI surplus canteen belt and canteen and a
side pack from Academy. A hard hat from a place that sold welding supplies
and a carbide light and baby bottle full of carbide from Jim Strickland. Oh
yes, and some combat boots.

Bustamante didn't need rope so we drove to Nuevo Laredo went bar hopping,
slept on the side of the road and turned right at Sabinas Hidalgo right
before the bridge and then turned right behind the movie house and rolled
to Villadama and down a dirt road to Bustamante. Got lost driving around on
goat trails and finally found the canyon. Got out and carried a case of
Carta Blanca and ourselves up the 57 switch backs or however many there
were. Ran into Ed Alexander, Super Bounce and another group of caver types.
The first cave trip.

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> "Caving Basics: A Comprehensive Guide for Beginning Cavers," fourth
> edition. Edited by Dean Wiseman and Curt Harler. National Speleological
> Society, 2016. ISBN 978-1-68044-007-7. 8.5 by 11 inches, 271 pages,
> softbound. $25 (NSS members $22.50, life members $20).
>
> This book updates, sometimes not enough, the third edition that was
> published almost twenty-five years ago. The overall design is similar, with
> major sections on equipment, techniques, and cave science. The main
> revolution in equipment over that period, at least for a beginner with no
> need for battery-powered hammer drills, has been LED lighting, and the
> all-new chapter on lights covers those, but mainly relatively expensive
> types that are perhaps overkill for the intended reader. Are there no
> batteries smaller than AA? The chapter on caving clothes is new; most other
> parts of this section are just warmed over. The chapter on packs in pretty
> much unchanged. Have you seen anybody caving with a "pig" lately? Most of
> the material in the techniques section is new or was extensively revised.
> But two chapters about topographic maps were not, and it is still assumed
> you're working with a paper topographic map ordered from the USGS based on
> a state index map. There is no clue that maps can now be downloaded (start
> at nationalmap.gov) and of course no mention at all of Google Earth.
> Chapters on first aid, SRT, and conservation are nicely done, without
> excessive detail. A chapter on leading cave trips, while it seems out of
> place in a beginners' book, is nice; the following chapter on leadership
> skills is less so. Photography and videography were not covered in the
> earlier book. Here they are, with nice chapters by Dave Bunnell and Ben von
> Cramen, professionals in the fields. I do wish the video chapter had not
> punted on editing, something that, to judge by some of the grotto programs
> I've seen, is often sorely lacking. Under science, the geology and biology
> chapters are new, and the archaeology chapter has been updated. A new
> chapter on anthropology seems rather arm-wavy and mostly raises questions.
> There are twenty-seven chapters in all.
>
> The advice in the book is generally sound. But why can't the NSS publish a
> committee-written book that is any good _as a book_? Most of the "On" books
> are terrible, and this new edition of "Caving Basics" sets a new low. Did
> anybody actually read it before it was printed? There are plenty of things
> to entertain anyone bothered by bad style or grammar, but even someone who
> isn't, in these days of tweets, will be annoyed by the chapter in which the
> promised Figure 1 and Table 1 are nowhere to be found or amused by the
> statement that the job of the call-out person is to take action if the
> group does get out on time. I could go on, but it's too sad.--Bill Mixon
>
> 
> Always forgive your enemies after they are hanged.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
>
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>



-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Underwater Potholer

[Stefan Creaser via Texascavers]

I just bought this on Amazon (Smile) for $22.07. I would suggest you do the 
same if interested coz there is now only 11 left :-)

Cheers,
Stefan


-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Mixon Bill via Texascavers

Underwater Potholer: A Cave Diver's Memoirs, by Duncan Price. Whittles 
Publishing, Scotland, 2015. ISBN 978-184995-158-6. 6.5 by 9.5 inches, 185 
pages, softbound. £18.99, $24.95.

"Cave diving is dangerous--do _not_ do it. Remember I told you so. Everything 
else I say is bollocks!"

This book is a welcome addition to the small number of well-written cavers' 
memoirs in English, most which have come from British cavers. Duncan Price has 
had a long and active career in cave diving, and he has worked with pretty much 
all of the other British cave divers I've ever heard of. Most of his diving has 
been sump diving in the UK, especially in the part of it where w is a vowel. 
But he has also laid new line in France and the US. Sometimes the blow-by-blows 
of some of his more complicated sump dives get a bit tedious, but there are 
flashes of understated humor or drama. Some cave maps can help with the 
geography, but they are all grouped together as pages XI–XIX, apparently as an 
afterthought. The sixteen unnumbered pages of color photos could have used a 
lot of adjustment. But these production problems do not detract seriously from 
enjoyment of the book.

Besides sump diving, which often includes difficult dry caving to reach the 
sump, Price has done tri-mix diving, rebreather diving, and scooter diving, 
despite the fact that his only formal training certification is from the 
British Sub-Aqua Club--for snorkeling. A lot of cave divers will be amused, or 
not, by a certain cavalier attitude about equipment. "One of my regulators 
started free-flowing on account of the cold water even before I'd set off; I 
hit it against a rock at the entrance until it stopped leaking and then headed 
into the cave." He did a dive using a home-made rebreather borrowed from Rick 
Stanton after receiving instruction in its use: breathe in, breathe out, add 
gas as required.

Do _not_ do it, but do read it.—Bill Mixon

A man cannot be too careful in his choice of enemies.



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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Underwater Potholer

[Mixon Bill via Texascavers]

Considering that the official release date of the book is October 7, 2015, I 
imagine Amazon will be able to get more if it needs to. I got mine on Amazon, 
too, but I quoted the publisher's list price. Presumably just about everybody 
knows he can get it at least a little bit cheaper on Amazon. -- Mixon

A man cannot be too careful in his choice of enemies.

You may "reply" to the address this message
(unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
came from, but for long-term use, save:
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Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave rescue manual

[Mark Minton via Texascavers]

  Back in the '80s, some Swiss cavers on a recon mission on Cerro Rabon
(highlands east of Huautla, Oaxaca, Mexico) did a 200-meter drop on 8-mm
rope. They were used to skinny rope, but that was extreme even for them.
Afterwards they said, Our eyes were very wide! 8-mm rope gets really
small when you weight it on a rack or bobbin...

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On Fri, August 21, 2015 4:05 pm, Les Ward via Texascavers wrote:
 Let me know when you'd like to take me on a trip that involves 9mm rope.
 I'll pretend I've never seen it before, just for the joy of being on it.
 I'll even bring some other flashing light guys with me. Though, be
 warned, two of us are ones that got strange looks from NCRC instructors as
 we did a 30' muenter hitch rap on 8mm. (It's what we had available)
 Anyway, nice write up.

 Les Ward

 P.S. We don't like the parasites either

 Sent from my iPhone...

 On Aug 21, 2015, at 11:14, Mixon Bill via Texascavers
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:

 Manual of U.S. Cave Rescue Techniques, third edition, edited by Anmar
 Mirza. National Cave Rescue Commission, 2015. ISBN 237230362.
 Approximately 250 pages, 8.5 by 11 inches, softbound, $50.

 This book, a much-needed and thorough revision of the 1988 second
 edition, is a bound version of a collection of chapters, with pages
 numbered independently, that are used in looseleaf form during
 cave-rescue courses offered by the National Cave Rescue Commission of
 the NSS. The thirty-six chapters have version numbers, like software,
 ranging from 1.2 to 2.3, and presumably the looseleaf versions have been
 evolving and will continue to do so, but it is valuable that a bound
 book is available for permanent reference. Twenty authors are listed,
 plus whoever wrote the thirteen anonymous chapters. The numerous
 illustrations are clear and a lot better than those in the second
 edition.

 The National Cave Rescue Commission is charged with coordination between
 cavers and civil agencies, and a large fraction of its training
 customers are professional emergency personnel, so catering to them is
 not surprising. There are references to local protocols and Form 205 and
 even a few mentions of half-inch rope, which cavers haven't used since
 the Manila Age. I'd like to be there when a fireman encounters a
 9-millimeter rope hanging in a pit.

 But there is a lot in the book that should be of interest even to cavers
 who hope never to be involved in a 911 emergency situation. There are
 succinct descriptions of various vertical systems and a good discussion
 of knots. A lot of the material about rigging is pertinent to any
 vertical caving, as long as one recognizes what some of it is important
 only when one is lifting a loaded litter with attendant. There is little
 about first-aid beyond stopping major blood loss and preventing
 hyperthermia, but realistically there is little that can be done in the
 cave. CPR is not likely to work in cases of trauma. There is a chapter
 on small-party self-rescue, and a lot of other things in the book are
 relevant to that, too, such as ways of lowering a person immobilized on
 rope besides the dangerous and last-resort pickoff. One thing worth
 noting is that a Gibbs-type ascender, rather than the toothed-cam sort,
 is preferable for many hauling uses, and a caving party might have a
 couple along, plus a small pulley or so, even if none is part of
 anyone's climbing system. Of course a large part of the book is devoted
 to packaging a patient in a litter and hauling it out of the cave. If it
 comes to that, the guys with flashing lights and their parasites the
 press will almost certainly be involved.

 I recommend the Manual of U.S. Cave Rescue Techniques to any serious
 caver, perhaps to be read selectively. Some precautions are in order.
 Parts will appeal most to caves who were in the military and enjoyed it,
 the reader will frequently encounter more than just a whiff of lawyers,
 and anyone who knows that a patient should have their is not good
 English will be driven mad.
 -Bill Mixon


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Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave rescue manual

[Les Ward via Texascavers]

Let me know when you'd like to take me on a trip that involves 9mm rope. I'll 
pretend I've never seen it before, just for the joy of being on it. I'll even 
bring some other flashing light guys with me. Though, be warned, two of us 
are ones that got strange looks from NCRC instructors as we did a 30' muenter 
hitch rap on 8mm. (It's what we had available) Anyway, nice write up. 

Les Ward

P.S. We don't like the parasites either

Sent from my iPhone...

 On Aug 21, 2015, at 11:14, Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
 texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
 
 Manual of U.S. Cave Rescue Techniques, third edition, edited by Anmar Mirza. 
 National Cave Rescue Commission, 2015. ISBN 237230362. Approximately 250 
 pages, 8.5 by 11 inches, softbound, $50.
 
 This book, a much-needed and thorough revision of the 1988 second edition, is 
 a bound version of a collection of chapters, with pages numbered 
 independently, that are used in looseleaf form during cave-rescue courses 
 offered by the National Cave Rescue Commission of the NSS. The thirty-six 
 chapters have version numbers, like software, ranging from 1.2 to 2.3, and 
 presumably the looseleaf versions have been evolving and will continue to do 
 so, but it is valuable that a bound book is available for permanent 
 reference. Twenty authors are listed, plus whoever wrote the thirteen 
 anonymous chapters. The numerous illustrations are clear and a lot better 
 than those in the second edition.
 
 The National Cave Rescue Commission is charged with coordination between 
 cavers and civil agencies, and a large fraction of its training customers are 
 professional emergency personnel, so catering to them is not surprising. 
 There are references to local protocols and Form 205 and even a few mentions 
 of half-inch rope, which cavers haven't used since the Manila Age. I'd like 
 to be there when a fireman encounters a 9-millimeter rope hanging in a pit.
 
 But there is a lot in the book that should be of interest even to cavers who 
 hope never to be involved in a 911 emergency situation. There are succinct 
 descriptions of various vertical systems and a good discussion of knots. A 
 lot of the material about rigging is pertinent to any vertical caving, as 
 long as one recognizes what some of it is important only when one is lifting 
 a loaded litter with attendant. There is little about first-aid beyond 
 stopping major blood loss and preventing hyperthermia, but realistically 
 there is little that can be done in the cave. CPR is not likely to work in 
 cases of trauma. There is a chapter on small-party self-rescue, and a lot of 
 other things in the book are relevant to that, too, such as ways of lowering 
 a person immobilized on rope besides the dangerous and last-resort pickoff. 
 One thing worth noting is that a Gibbs-type ascender, rather than the 
 toothed-cam sort, is preferable for many hauling uses, and a caving party 
 might have a couple along, plus a small pulley or so, even if none is part of 
 anyone's climbing system. Of course a large part of the book is devoted to 
 packaging a patient in a litter and hauling it out of the cave. If it comes 
 to that, the guys with flashing lights and their parasites the press will 
 almost certainly be involved.
 
 I recommend the Manual of U.S. Cave Rescue Techniques to any serious caver, 
 perhaps to be read selectively. Some precautions are in order. Parts will 
 appeal most to caves who were in the military and enjoyed it, the reader will 
 frequently encounter more than just a whiff of lawyers, and anyone who knows 
 that a patient should have their is not good English will be driven mad.
 —Bill Mixon
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it
 will be the greatest benefactor the world has yet known.--Sir Richard Burton
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
 
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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Fern Cave

[Jerry via Texascavers]

Kinda sounds like the pot calling the kettle black, Phil.  ;)
 
Jerry.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Phil Winkler via Texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
To: texascavers texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 9:10 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Fern Cave


Gees, Bill,

If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. 

Jenn's book is a superb summary of the discovery and exploration of one of our 
greatest caves. Her writing is passionate and on topic, factual and timely. She 
brings everything up to date from Donal Myrick's classic publication from the 
early 70s.

I've been in the cave dozens of times from the early 70s thru the 80s until 
even 
2000 with JV. It is a major cave with so much diversity with formations, 
passage, pits and complexity, not to mention the huge colonies of grey bats in 
the Morgue section.

Phil
On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers wrote:

 Fern Cave: The Discovery, Exploration, and History of Alabama's  Greatest 
Cave. Jennifer Ellen Pinkley. Blue Bat Books, 2014. ISBN  978-0-9903547-0-3. 
6.5 
by 8.5 inches, 371 pages. Softbound $25, $10  for Kindle or Nook e-book from 
www.bluebatbooks.com.
 When I visited Fern Cave, it consisted of a short stream passage and  
 Surprise 
Pit. By that time, the route to the new rigging point, which  provided a dry 
404-foot rappel, had been Toroded to the point that the  step across the 
four-hundred-foot-deep gap in the ledge was only  moderately scary. Nearby, New 
Fern was discovered and explored through  several entrances. It was finally 
connected to Fern Cave, and the  whole took over the name. So I'll have to call 
the original cave old  Fern, I guess.
 Fern Cave is more than fifteen miles long and is essentially a  vertical 
 maze, 
with many levels connected by numerous drops. The part  of the cave in the 
vicinity of the Morgue Entrance contains the  largest hibernaculum of gray 
bats, 
which have been declared endangered  by the feds. So most of the entrances to 
the cave were purchased by  the Fish and Wildlife Service as a detached part of 
the nearby Wheeler  National Wildlife Refuge. The owner of old Fern was not 
interesting in  selling, and the connections between it and the rest of the 
cave 
are  obscure or dangerous, so the FWS didn't pursue the matter. Relations  
between the Huntsville Grotto and the FWS were good, and the grotto  was 
allowed 
to manage the FWS parts of Fern, provided that no caving  was done in the 
gray-bat section during the hibernating season. The  grotto established a 
permit 
system, and exploration and mapping  continued. Old Fern and Surprise Pit 
continued to be open without red  tape, and eventually they were purchased by 
the Southeast Cave  Conservancy.
 Then white-nose syndrome appeared, and the Fish and Wildlife Service  
 declared 
that all caving should stop in states where it occurred and  all adjacent 
states. Naturally this was ridiculed and widely ignored,  but caves owned by 
the 
US Forest Service or the FWS and other parts of  the Department of the Interior 
were declared closed, and the agreement  with the Huntsville Grotto to manage 
Fern Cave ended. Even the  Southeast Cave Conservancy jerked its knee, and old 
Fern was closed,  although it has since reopened. When some research access by 
cavers to  Fern Cave was allowed years later, it was found that, in the absence 
 
of the grotto's management and the monitoring that it allowed, some  vandalism 
had occurred in Fern despite the official closure. (None of  the entrances to 
the cave have been gated.) White-nose syndrome has  affected tri-colored bats 
in 
New Fern, and sensitive tests have  detected its DNA in swabs from hibernating 
gray bats, but so far they  seem unharmed.
 Pinkley's book is a very nice, reasonably priced summary of the  history of 
the cave from the original discovery and descent of old  Fern through today. 
There are numerous black-and-white photos, many of  considerable historical 
interest. I initially found reading the book a  bit tedious, but that turned 
out 
to be just because the prose would  probably be recommended for middle-school 
students by those computer  programs that rate the difficulty of a text. I got 
used to it, and  certainly I can't claim the book is difficult to understand. 
Embedded  are personal accounts of some of the author's own involvement in the  
cave. She is very bitter about the FWS's turning on the cavers that  had done 
so 
much to help them before WNS appeared, but actually they  had no choice but to 
march to the drums in DC. The limited vandalism,  mainly spray-painted arrows 
and scratched names, that occurred during  the time the cave was effectively 
unmanaged, if officially closed,  distresses her greatly, although I'd say it 
wasn't that big a deal for  a fifteen-mile cave. It is a lesson, though, that 
managing an open  cave, even if not foolproof, can be better than an 
ineffective 
closure

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Fern Cave

[Phil Winkler via Texascavers]

Gees, Bill,

If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. 

Jenn's book is a superb summary of the discovery and exploration of one of our 
greatest caves. Her writing is passionate and on topic, factual and timely. She 
brings everything up to date from Donal Myrick's classic publication from the 
early 70s.

I've been in the cave dozens of times from the early 70s thru the 80s until 
even 2000 with JV. It is a major cave with so much diversity with formations, 
passage, pits and complexity, not to mention the huge colonies of grey bats in 
the Morgue section.

Phil
On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:41 PM, Mixon Bill via Texascavers wrote:

 Fern Cave: The Discovery, Exploration, and History of Alabama's  Greatest 
 Cave. Jennifer Ellen Pinkley. Blue Bat Books, 2014. ISBN  978-0-9903547-0-3. 
 6.5 by 8.5 inches, 371 pages. Softbound $25, $10  for Kindle or Nook e-book 
 from www.bluebatbooks.com.
 When I visited Fern Cave, it consisted of a short stream passage and  
 Surprise Pit. By that time, the route to the new rigging point, which  
 provided a dry 404-foot rappel, had been Toroded to the point that the  step 
 across the four-hundred-foot-deep gap in the ledge was only  moderately 
 scary. Nearby, New Fern was discovered and explored through  several 
 entrances. It was finally connected to Fern Cave, and the  whole took over 
 the name. So I'll have to call the original cave old  Fern, I guess.
 Fern Cave is more than fifteen miles long and is essentially a  vertical 
 maze, with many levels connected by numerous drops. The part  of the cave in 
 the vicinity of the Morgue Entrance contains the  largest hibernaculum of 
 gray bats, which have been declared endangered  by the feds. So most of the 
 entrances to the cave were purchased by  the Fish and Wildlife Service as a 
 detached part of the nearby Wheeler  National Wildlife Refuge. The owner of 
 old Fern was not interesting in  selling, and the connections between it and 
 the rest of the cave are  obscure or dangerous, so the FWS didn't pursue the 
 matter. Relations  between the Huntsville Grotto and the FWS were good, and 
 the grotto  was allowed to manage the FWS parts of Fern, provided that no 
 caving  was done in the gray-bat section during the hibernating season. The  
 grotto established a permit system, and exploration and mapping  continued. 
 Old Fern and Surprise Pit continued to be open without red  tape, and 
 eventually they were purchased by the Southeast Cave  Conservancy.
 Then white-nose syndrome appeared, and the Fish and Wildlife Service  
 declared that all caving should stop in states where it occurred and  all 
 adjacent states. Naturally this was ridiculed and widely ignored,  but caves 
 owned by the US Forest Service or the FWS and other parts of  the Department 
 of the Interior were declared closed, and the agreement  with the Huntsville 
 Grotto to manage Fern Cave ended. Even the  Southeast Cave Conservancy jerked 
 its knee, and old Fern was closed,  although it has since reopened. When some 
 research access by cavers to  Fern Cave was allowed years later, it was found 
 that, in the absence  of the grotto's management and the monitoring that it 
 allowed, some  vandalism had occurred in Fern despite the official closure. 
 (None of  the entrances to the cave have been gated.) White-nose syndrome has 
  affected tri-colored bats in New Fern, and sensitive tests have  detected 
 its DNA in swabs from hibernating gray bats, but so far they  seem unharmed.
 Pinkley's book is a very nice, reasonably priced summary of the  history of 
 the cave from the original discovery and descent of old  Fern through today. 
 There are numerous black-and-white photos, many of  considerable historical 
 interest. I initially found reading the book a  bit tedious, but that turned 
 out to be just because the prose would  probably be recommended for 
 middle-school students by those computer  programs that rate the difficulty 
 of a text. I got used to it, and  certainly I can't claim the book is 
 difficult to understand. Embedded  are personal accounts of some of the 
 author's own involvement in the  cave. She is very bitter about the FWS's 
 turning on the cavers that  had done so much to help them before WNS 
 appeared, but actually they  had no choice but to march to the drums in DC. 
 The limited vandalism,  mainly spray-painted arrows and scratched names, that 
 occurred during  the time the cave was effectively unmanaged, if officially 
 closed,  distresses her greatly, although I'd say it wasn't that big a deal 
 for  a fifteen-mile cave. It is a lesson, though, that managing an open  
 cave, even if not foolproof, can be better than an ineffective closure.
 Bill Torode's map of Fern Cave has never been published, and since it  is 
 wall-sized it probably couldn't be. A remapping project has  surveyed around 
 half of the known cave. The only maps in the book are  a couple of very local 
 examples of the detail in 

RE: [Texascavers] book review: Geología de Cuevas

[George Veni]

I agree with Bill's review of Art's excellent book. I'll add that the 
publishing of this translation of the book was stuck until the International 
Union of Speleology (UIS) provided the financial support to make it possible. 
The UIS' work often happens quietly and unsung. In fact, I frequently hear 
people erroneously call it the ICS, which is the UIS' International Congress of 
Speleology. I'm mentioning this because it is time the UIS starts being 
recognized for its work.

For more information on the UIS, visit its website: www.uis-speleo.org.

George


Sent from my mobile phone



George Veni, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215
USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org




 Original message 
From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
Date: 2013/09/23 21:53 (GMT-07:00)
To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Geología de Cuevas


There is a very nice new book on cave geology:

Geología de Cuevas
by Arthur Palmer
translated by Javier Mugica Jeréonimo of the Sociedad Espeológica de
Cuba
ISBN 978-0-939748-66-2
502 pages softbound
published by Cave Books for the Unión Internacional de Espeleología

This is the review I wrote of the original English-language edition:

Cave Geology. Arthur N. Palmer. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2007. ISBN
978-0-939748-66-2. 8.5 by 11 inches, vi + 454 pages, hardbound. $37.95.
  I was looking forward to this book during all the years it was
rumored to be forthcoming, because even Palmer’s journal articles are
unusually lucid. I am not disappointed. This is a very nice book.
   In the first nine chapters, Palmer leads the reader through all
the principles of the geology of solution caves, from elementary
concepts of geology through difficult topics like the chemistry and
dynamics of limestone dissolution. To have done all this in a way that
should be understandable to a high-school senior is a considerable
feat of organization and ability to anticipate students’ questions.
There is no calculus, and where algebraic equations are used, he
generally walks the reader through a numerical example. He is careful
to clarify things that might be misunderstood, such as that by
'lower,' applied to a negative quantity such as  delta34S, he means
more negative, not closer to 0. He is careful to define technical
terms he uses, and he even footnotes the pronunciation of things like
gneiss, polje, and Cvijic, a boon to those of us who learn our geology
from books instead of lectures. When a mechanism is of possible
theoretical interest but unlikely to be significant except in unusual
circumstances, he is careful to point that out. In some of the later
of these chapters, his enthusiasm for giving examples from around the
world does result in a few that are just curiosities and others that
are not explained very clearly or completely. This and a certain
amount of gratuitous citing of references are symptoms of some
indecision about whether the book was to be a textbook or a scholarly
monograph, but at least the reader is exposed to the full diversity of
solution caves.
  Subsequent chapters discuss cave minerals, lava caves, airflow
and weathering in caves, and dating of passages and speleothems. A
chapter on research techniques describes Palmer’s methods for making
careful and accurate vertical surveys of passages in order to study
the effect of geologic structure on a cave, a specialty of his, and
also briefly mentions geophysical techniques, although even a
professional geologist will need specialist help with those. The
fifteenth chapter briefly surveys applications of cave geology to
other fields like land management and water supply. There are over 750
figures, nearly two per page. The roughly one thousand references
listed are almost all in English and almost all from books or academic
journals on paper (the scholarly monograph won out here).
  The layout by the author is fully professional, and there are
only a very few typos or editing glitches.
  Cave Geology is not only the best major book on the subject
available, it is also the cheapest. The main text is 405 large pages
with two columns of fairly small type, so there is a lot there, and
you won't read it in a couple of days or even a week. And, while you
should understand most of it while you're reading it, you won't have
learned it all. I still haven't, even with the help of the other ten
thousand pages of cave geology I've read over too many years. But you
will absorb the general ideas, and this is the book you will go back
to later for the details.

(Sorry, but about all the Spanish I know is más cerveza. Perhaps
someone will translate this or, better, buy the book and write his own
review.)

The only source I know of so far is Javier Mugica Jerónimo, Grupo SAMA,
Sociedad Espeleológica de Cuba, 

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Ted Samsel]

A few years ago (4?), there was land (with a house) available in the area
for sale. When we were in Virginia, we considered looking at it.

Ted

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:

 I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

 Mark


 At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

 Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
 wrote:
 I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

 Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip C. Lucas. Revised
 edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus
 postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.

 This is a great book. After I received the privately published book, I
 delayed reviewing it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but for some
 reason they passed. They could have published it with almost no effort and
 little risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to be of service to
 its members, but a large hardbound book with color illustrations throughout
 cannot be really inexpensive.

 The book is the story of what happens when a caver with an engineering
 bent buys property in Virginia that contains small caves and potential
 digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave with entrances on Lucas's
 property and that of a neighbor, including the Water Sinks system,
 Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The exploration of these caves has
 been unusually well documented, both in trip reports and photographs.
 Besides maps and descriptions of the caves, the book contains reports on
 essentially all the digging or exploration trips, mostly written by Lucas.
 I actually found the trip reports much more interesting reading than the
 formal cave descriptions, as they give a better idea of the caves and the
 effort that went into finding and mapping them. The technical aspects are
 fascinating, especially the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing
 breakdown and creating airflow to locate connections. Straws, however,
 are nowhere really described.
 The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and the design and layout, by
 Lucas and Farrar, are very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred color
 photographs could have used some color adjustment, but generally they
 illustrate the work and the caves very well. A special effort seems to have
 been made to include lots of clear photographs of the participants in the
 projects. (One of them would make a good hobbit.) Portraits on pages 101
 and 104 are especially nice.

 I can't deny that this is an expensive book about a pretty narrow
 subject, and the story could have been told almost as well in a less costly
 way. (No profit is being made by anybody but Lulu.com.) To anyone who
 really likes cave books, it's worth it.

 Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result in this case is sturdily
 bound in a printed hardcover. They also sell a number of other books on
 caves and caving. If you just search for caves you'll have to wade through
 scores of probably awful self-published novels. Besides Water Sinks, worthy
 of note are The Hollow Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College Caving
 Club (deep-cave exploration, printed paperback or free PDF, reviewed in
 March 2008 NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques manual, paperback,
 reviewed August 2002), and D. F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue,
 paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


 Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
 Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org

 --**--**-
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.comtexascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: 
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Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mark Minton]

There is usually land available in that 
part of Virginia (Highland and Bath 
Counties).  Currently there is a 205-acre farm 
for sale near McDowell.  It's been on the market 
for a couple of years, so I suspect they're asking too much.


Mark

At 07:01 AM 7/30/2013, Ted Samsel wrote:
A few years ago (4?), there was land (with a 
house) available in the area for sale. When we 
were in Virginia, we considered looking at it.


Ted

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:
I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

Mark

At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:
Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip 
C. Lucas. Revised edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 
inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus 
postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.


This is a great book. After I received the 
privately published book, I delayed reviewing 
it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but 
for some reason they passed. They could have 
published it with almost no effort and little 
risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to 
be of service to its members, but a large 
hardbound book with color illustrations 
throughout cannot be really inexpensive.


The book is the story of what happens when a 
caver with an engineering bent buys property in 
Virginia that contains small caves and potential 
digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave 
with entrances on Lucas's property and that of a 
neighbor, including the Water Sinks system, 
Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The 
exploration of these caves has been unusually 
well documented, both in trip reports and 
photographs. Besides maps and descriptions of 
the caves, the book contains reports on 
essentially all the digging or exploration 
trips, mostly written by Lucas. I actually found 
the trip reports much more interesting reading 
than the formal cave descriptions, as they give 
a better idea of the caves and the effort that 
went into finding and mapping them. The 
technical aspects are fascinating, especially 
the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing 
breakdown and creating airflow to locate 
connections. Straws, however, are nowhere really described.
The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and 
the design and layout, by Lucas and Farrar, are 
very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred 
color photographs could have used some color 
adjustment, but generally they illustrate the 
work and the caves very well. A special effort 
seems to have been made to include lots of clear 
photographs of the participants in the projects. 
(One of them would make a good hobbit.) 
Portraits on pages 101 and 104 are especially nice.


I can't deny that this is an expensive book 
about a pretty narrow subject, and the story 
could have been told almost as well in a less 
costly way. (No profit is being made by anybody 
but Lulu.com.) To anyone who really likes cave books, it's worth it.


Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result 
in this case is sturdily bound in a printed 
hardcover. They also sell a number of other 
books on caves and caving. If you just search 
for caves you'll have to wade through scores of 
probably awful self-published novels. Besides 
Water Sinks, worthy of note are The Hollow 
Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College 
Caving Club (deep-cave exploration, printed 
paperback or free PDF, reviewed in March 2008 
NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques 
manual, paperback, reviewed August 2002), and D. 
F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue, 
paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Ted Samsel]

A few years ago (4?), there was land (with a house) available in the area
for sale. When we were in Virginia, we considered looking at it.

Ted

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:

 I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

 Mark


 At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

 Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
 wrote:
 I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

 Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip C. Lucas. Revised
 edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus
 postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.

 This is a great book. After I received the privately published book, I
 delayed reviewing it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but for some
 reason they passed. They could have published it with almost no effort and
 little risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to be of service to
 its members, but a large hardbound book with color illustrations throughout
 cannot be really inexpensive.

 The book is the story of what happens when a caver with an engineering
 bent buys property in Virginia that contains small caves and potential
 digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave with entrances on Lucas's
 property and that of a neighbor, including the Water Sinks system,
 Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The exploration of these caves has
 been unusually well documented, both in trip reports and photographs.
 Besides maps and descriptions of the caves, the book contains reports on
 essentially all the digging or exploration trips, mostly written by Lucas.
 I actually found the trip reports much more interesting reading than the
 formal cave descriptions, as they give a better idea of the caves and the
 effort that went into finding and mapping them. The technical aspects are
 fascinating, especially the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing
 breakdown and creating airflow to locate connections. Straws, however,
 are nowhere really described.
 The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and the design and layout, by
 Lucas and Farrar, are very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred color
 photographs could have used some color adjustment, but generally they
 illustrate the work and the caves very well. A special effort seems to have
 been made to include lots of clear photographs of the participants in the
 projects. (One of them would make a good hobbit.) Portraits on pages 101
 and 104 are especially nice.

 I can't deny that this is an expensive book about a pretty narrow
 subject, and the story could have been told almost as well in a less costly
 way. (No profit is being made by anybody but Lulu.com.) To anyone who
 really likes cave books, it's worth it.

 Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result in this case is sturdily
 bound in a printed hardcover. They also sell a number of other books on
 caves and caving. If you just search for caves you'll have to wade through
 scores of probably awful self-published novels. Besides Water Sinks, worthy
 of note are The Hollow Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College Caving
 Club (deep-cave exploration, printed paperback or free PDF, reviewed in
 March 2008 NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques manual, paperback,
 reviewed August 2002), and D. F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue,
 paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


 Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
 Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org

 --**--**-
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.comtexascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: 
 texascavers-help@texascavers.**comtexascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mark Minton]

There is usually land available in that 
part of Virginia (Highland and Bath 
Counties).  Currently there is a 205-acre farm 
for sale near McDowell.  It's been on the market 
for a couple of years, so I suspect they're asking too much.


Mark

At 07:01 AM 7/30/2013, Ted Samsel wrote:
A few years ago (4?), there was land (with a 
house) available in the area for sale. When we 
were in Virginia, we considered looking at it.


Ted

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:
I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

Mark

At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:
Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip 
C. Lucas. Revised edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 
inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus 
postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.


This is a great book. After I received the 
privately published book, I delayed reviewing 
it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but 
for some reason they passed. They could have 
published it with almost no effort and little 
risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to 
be of service to its members, but a large 
hardbound book with color illustrations 
throughout cannot be really inexpensive.


The book is the story of what happens when a 
caver with an engineering bent buys property in 
Virginia that contains small caves and potential 
digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave 
with entrances on Lucas's property and that of a 
neighbor, including the Water Sinks system, 
Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The 
exploration of these caves has been unusually 
well documented, both in trip reports and 
photographs. Besides maps and descriptions of 
the caves, the book contains reports on 
essentially all the digging or exploration 
trips, mostly written by Lucas. I actually found 
the trip reports much more interesting reading 
than the formal cave descriptions, as they give 
a better idea of the caves and the effort that 
went into finding and mapping them. The 
technical aspects are fascinating, especially 
the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing 
breakdown and creating airflow to locate 
connections. Straws, however, are nowhere really described.
The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and 
the design and layout, by Lucas and Farrar, are 
very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred 
color photographs could have used some color 
adjustment, but generally they illustrate the 
work and the caves very well. A special effort 
seems to have been made to include lots of clear 
photographs of the participants in the projects. 
(One of them would make a good hobbit.) 
Portraits on pages 101 and 104 are especially nice.


I can't deny that this is an expensive book 
about a pretty narrow subject, and the story 
could have been told almost as well in a less 
costly way. (No profit is being made by anybody 
but Lulu.com.) To anyone who really likes cave books, it's worth it.


Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result 
in this case is sturdily bound in a printed 
hardcover. They also sell a number of other 
books on caves and caving. If you just search 
for caves you'll have to wade through scores of 
probably awful self-published novels. Besides 
Water Sinks, worthy of note are The Hollow 
Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College 
Caving Club (deep-cave exploration, printed 
paperback or free PDF, reviewed in March 2008 
NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques 
manual, paperback, reviewed August 2002), and D. 
F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue, 
paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Ted Samsel]

A few years ago (4?), there was land (with a house) available in the area
for sale. When we were in Virginia, we considered looking at it.

Ted

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:

 I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

 Mark


 At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

 Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

 On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
 wrote:
 I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

 Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip C. Lucas. Revised
 edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus
 postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.

 This is a great book. After I received the privately published book, I
 delayed reviewing it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but for some
 reason they passed. They could have published it with almost no effort and
 little risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to be of service to
 its members, but a large hardbound book with color illustrations throughout
 cannot be really inexpensive.

 The book is the story of what happens when a caver with an engineering
 bent buys property in Virginia that contains small caves and potential
 digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave with entrances on Lucas's
 property and that of a neighbor, including the Water Sinks system,
 Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The exploration of these caves has
 been unusually well documented, both in trip reports and photographs.
 Besides maps and descriptions of the caves, the book contains reports on
 essentially all the digging or exploration trips, mostly written by Lucas.
 I actually found the trip reports much more interesting reading than the
 formal cave descriptions, as they give a better idea of the caves and the
 effort that went into finding and mapping them. The technical aspects are
 fascinating, especially the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing
 breakdown and creating airflow to locate connections. Straws, however,
 are nowhere really described.
 The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and the design and layout, by
 Lucas and Farrar, are very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred color
 photographs could have used some color adjustment, but generally they
 illustrate the work and the caves very well. A special effort seems to have
 been made to include lots of clear photographs of the participants in the
 projects. (One of them would make a good hobbit.) Portraits on pages 101
 and 104 are especially nice.

 I can't deny that this is an expensive book about a pretty narrow
 subject, and the story could have been told almost as well in a less costly
 way. (No profit is being made by anybody but Lulu.com.) To anyone who
 really likes cave books, it's worth it.

 Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result in this case is sturdily
 bound in a printed hardcover. They also sell a number of other books on
 caves and caving. If you just search for caves you'll have to wade through
 scores of probably awful self-published novels. Besides Water Sinks, worthy
 of note are The Hollow Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College Caving
 Club (deep-cave exploration, printed paperback or free PDF, reviewed in
 March 2008 NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques manual, paperback,
 reviewed August 2002), and D. F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue,
 paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


 Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
 Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org

 --**--**-
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.comtexascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: 
 texascavers-help@texascavers.**comtexascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mark Minton]

There is usually land available in that 
part of Virginia (Highland and Bath 
Counties).  Currently there is a 205-acre farm 
for sale near McDowell.  It's been on the market 
for a couple of years, so I suspect they're asking too much.


Mark

At 07:01 AM 7/30/2013, Ted Samsel wrote:
A few years ago (4?), there was land (with a 
house) available in the area for sale. When we 
were in Virginia, we considered looking at it.


Ted

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Mark Minton mmin...@caver.net wrote:
I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

Mark

At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:
Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip 
C. Lucas. Revised edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 
inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus 
postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.


This is a great book. After I received the 
privately published book, I delayed reviewing 
it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but 
for some reason they passed. They could have 
published it with almost no effort and little 
risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to 
be of service to its members, but a large 
hardbound book with color illustrations 
throughout cannot be really inexpensive.


The book is the story of what happens when a 
caver with an engineering bent buys property in 
Virginia that contains small caves and potential 
digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave 
with entrances on Lucas's property and that of a 
neighbor, including the Water Sinks system, 
Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The 
exploration of these caves has been unusually 
well documented, both in trip reports and 
photographs. Besides maps and descriptions of 
the caves, the book contains reports on 
essentially all the digging or exploration 
trips, mostly written by Lucas. I actually found 
the trip reports much more interesting reading 
than the formal cave descriptions, as they give 
a better idea of the caves and the effort that 
went into finding and mapping them. The 
technical aspects are fascinating, especially 
the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing 
breakdown and creating airflow to locate 
connections. Straws, however, are nowhere really described.
The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and 
the design and layout, by Lucas and Farrar, are 
very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred 
color photographs could have used some color 
adjustment, but generally they illustrate the 
work and the caves very well. A special effort 
seems to have been made to include lots of clear 
photographs of the participants in the projects. 
(One of them would make a good hobbit.) 
Portraits on pages 101 and 104 are especially nice.


I can't deny that this is an expensive book 
about a pretty narrow subject, and the story 
could have been told almost as well in a less 
costly way. (No profit is being made by anybody 
but Lulu.com.) To anyone who really likes cave books, it's worth it.


Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result 
in this case is sturdily bound in a printed 
hardcover. They also sell a number of other 
books on caves and caving. If you just search 
for caves you'll have to wade through scores of 
probably awful self-published novels. Besides 
Water Sinks, worthy of note are The Hollow 
Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College 
Caving Club (deep-cave exploration, printed 
paperback or free PDF, reviewed in March 2008 
NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques 
manual, paperback, reviewed August 2002), and D. 
F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue, 
paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
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For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mark Minton]

I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

Mark

At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip 
C. Lucas. Revised edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 
inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus 
postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.


This is a great book. After I received the 
privately published book, I delayed reviewing 
it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but 
for some reason they passed. They could have 
published it with almost no effort and little 
risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to 
be of service to its members, but a large 
hardbound book with color illustrations 
throughout cannot be really inexpensive.


The book is the story of what happens when a 
caver with an engineering bent buys property in 
Virginia that contains small caves and potential 
digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave 
with entrances on Lucas's property and that of a 
neighbor, including the Water Sinks system, 
Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The 
exploration of these caves has been unusually 
well documented, both in trip reports and 
photographs. Besides maps and descriptions of 
the caves, the book contains reports on 
essentially all the digging or exploration 
trips, mostly written by Lucas. I actually found 
the trip reports much more interesting reading 
than the formal cave descriptions, as they give 
a better idea of the caves and the effort that 
went into finding and mapping them. The 
technical aspects are fascinating, especially 
the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing 
breakdown and creating airflow to locate 
connections. Straws, however, are nowhere really described.
The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and 
the design and layout, by Lucas and Farrar, are 
very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred 
color photographs could have used some color 
adjustment, but generally they illustrate the 
work and the caves very well. A special effort 
seems to have been made to include lots of clear 
photographs of the participants in the projects. 
(One of them would make a good hobbit.) 
Portraits on pages 101 and 104 are especially nice.


I can't deny that this is an expensive book 
about a pretty narrow subject, and the story 
could have been told almost as well in a less 
costly way. (No profit is being made by anybody 
but Lulu.com.) To anyone who really likes cave books, it's worth it.


Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result 
in this case is sturdily bound in a printed 
hardcover. They also sell a number of other 
books on caves and caving. If you just search 
for caves you'll have to wade through scores of 
probably awful self-published novels. Besides 
Water Sinks, worthy of note are The Hollow 
Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College 
Caving Club (deep-cave exploration, printed 
paperback or free PDF, reviewed in March 2008 
NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques 
manual, paperback, reviewed August 2002), and D. 
F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue, 
paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mixon Bill]

Charles -- No. I have suggested that to him; he could even put a free  
PDF on Lulu if they also sell paper copies (see The Hollow Mountain  
mentioned in my review). He isn't interested in making any money on  
the book, not even for the Virginia Speleological Survey. We've also  
tried to figure out other, cheaper sources. The NSS could have printed  
and sold some for $65, or less if softbound. I could have some printed  
by the AMCS's printer. I got a quote from them; forget what, something  
like $47 a copy. But Phil doesn't want the hassle of taking orders and  
mailing them himself.


When the opportunity arises, I'll again suggest putting a PDF  
somewhere. Would take just a little work to make a PDF that includes  
the covers; presumably Lulu has separate PDF files for the cover and  
the text pages. Author is Phil Lucas, lu...@virginiacaves.org, if you  
want to contact him.


The number of Mexican cave maps at amcs-pubs.org/maps has just passed  
3000. -- Bill


Today is the last day of your life so far.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mark Minton]

I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

Mark

At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip 
C. Lucas. Revised edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 
inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus 
postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.


This is a great book. After I received the 
privately published book, I delayed reviewing 
it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but 
for some reason they passed. They could have 
published it with almost no effort and little 
risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to 
be of service to its members, but a large 
hardbound book with color illustrations 
throughout cannot be really inexpensive.


The book is the story of what happens when a 
caver with an engineering bent buys property in 
Virginia that contains small caves and potential 
digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave 
with entrances on Lucas's property and that of a 
neighbor, including the Water Sinks system, 
Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The 
exploration of these caves has been unusually 
well documented, both in trip reports and 
photographs. Besides maps and descriptions of 
the caves, the book contains reports on 
essentially all the digging or exploration 
trips, mostly written by Lucas. I actually found 
the trip reports much more interesting reading 
than the formal cave descriptions, as they give 
a better idea of the caves and the effort that 
went into finding and mapping them. The 
technical aspects are fascinating, especially 
the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing 
breakdown and creating airflow to locate 
connections. Straws, however, are nowhere really described.
The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and 
the design and layout, by Lucas and Farrar, are 
very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred 
color photographs could have used some color 
adjustment, but generally they illustrate the 
work and the caves very well. A special effort 
seems to have been made to include lots of clear 
photographs of the participants in the projects. 
(One of them would make a good hobbit.) 
Portraits on pages 101 and 104 are especially nice.


I can't deny that this is an expensive book 
about a pretty narrow subject, and the story 
could have been told almost as well in a less 
costly way. (No profit is being made by anybody 
but Lulu.com.) To anyone who really likes cave books, it's worth it.


Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result 
in this case is sturdily bound in a printed 
hardcover. They also sell a number of other 
books on caves and caving. If you just search 
for caves you'll have to wade through scores of 
probably awful self-published novels. Besides 
Water Sinks, worthy of note are The Hollow 
Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College 
Caving Club (deep-cave exploration, printed 
paperback or free PDF, reviewed in March 2008 
NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques 
manual, paperback, reviewed August 2002), and D. 
F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue, 
paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mixon Bill]

Charles -- No. I have suggested that to him; he could even put a free  
PDF on Lulu if they also sell paper copies (see The Hollow Mountain  
mentioned in my review). He isn't interested in making any money on  
the book, not even for the Virginia Speleological Survey. We've also  
tried to figure out other, cheaper sources. The NSS could have printed  
and sold some for $65, or less if softbound. I could have some printed  
by the AMCS's printer. I got a quote from them; forget what, something  
like $47 a copy. But Phil doesn't want the hassle of taking orders and  
mailing them himself.


When the opportunity arises, I'll again suggest putting a PDF  
somewhere. Would take just a little work to make a PDF that includes  
the covers; presumably Lulu has separate PDF files for the cover and  
the text pages. Author is Phil Lucas, lu...@virginiacaves.org, if you  
want to contact him.


The number of Mexican cave maps at amcs-pubs.org/maps has just passed  
3000. -- Bill


Today is the last day of your life so far.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mark Minton]

I don't think a pdf version of Water Sinks is available.

Mark

At 12:34 AM 7/29/2013, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?

On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip 
C. Lucas. Revised edition, 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 
inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus 
postage from lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.


This is a great book. After I received the 
privately published book, I delayed reviewing 
it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but 
for some reason they passed. They could have 
published it with almost no effort and little 
risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to 
be of service to its members, but a large 
hardbound book with color illustrations 
throughout cannot be really inexpensive.


The book is the story of what happens when a 
caver with an engineering bent buys property in 
Virginia that contains small caves and potential 
digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave 
with entrances on Lucas's property and that of a 
neighbor, including the Water Sinks system, 
Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The 
exploration of these caves has been unusually 
well documented, both in trip reports and 
photographs. Besides maps and descriptions of 
the caves, the book contains reports on 
essentially all the digging or exploration 
trips, mostly written by Lucas. I actually found 
the trip reports much more interesting reading 
than the formal cave descriptions, as they give 
a better idea of the caves and the effort that 
went into finding and mapping them. The 
technical aspects are fascinating, especially 
the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing 
breakdown and creating airflow to locate 
connections. Straws, however, are nowhere really described.
The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and 
the design and layout, by Lucas and Farrar, are 
very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred 
color photographs could have used some color 
adjustment, but generally they illustrate the 
work and the caves very well. A special effort 
seems to have been made to include lots of clear 
photographs of the participants in the projects. 
(One of them would make a good hobbit.) 
Portraits on pages 101 and 104 are especially nice.


I can't deny that this is an expensive book 
about a pretty narrow subject, and the story 
could have been told almost as well in a less 
costly way. (No profit is being made by anybody 
but Lulu.com.) To anyone who really likes cave books, it's worth it.


Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result 
in this case is sturdily bound in a printed 
hardcover. They also sell a number of other 
books on caves and caving. If you just search 
for caves you'll have to wade through scores of 
probably awful self-published novels. Besides 
Water Sinks, worthy of note are The Hollow 
Mountain: 1974-2006 by the Imperial College 
Caving Club (deep-cave exploration, printed 
paperback or free PDF, reviewed in March 2008 
NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques 
manual, paperback, reviewed August 2002), and D. 
F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue, 
paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Mixon Bill]

Charles -- No. I have suggested that to him; he could even put a free  
PDF on Lulu if they also sell paper copies (see The Hollow Mountain  
mentioned in my review). He isn't interested in making any money on  
the book, not even for the Virginia Speleological Survey. We've also  
tried to figure out other, cheaper sources. The NSS could have printed  
and sold some for $65, or less if softbound. I could have some printed  
by the AMCS's printer. I got a quote from them; forget what, something  
like $47 a copy. But Phil doesn't want the hassle of taking orders and  
mailing them himself.


When the opportunity arises, I'll again suggest putting a PDF  
somewhere. Would take just a little work to make a PDF that includes  
the covers; presumably Lulu has separate PDF files for the cover and  
the text pages. Author is Phil Lucas, lu...@virginiacaves.org, if you  
want to contact him.


The number of Mexican cave maps at amcs-pubs.org/maps has just passed  
3000. -- Bill


Today is the last day of your life so far.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Charles Goldsmith]

Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.comwrote:

 I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

 Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip C. Lucas. Revised edition,
 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus postage from
 lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.

 This is a great book. After I received the privately published book, I
 delayed reviewing it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but for some
 reason they passed. They could have published it with almost no effort and
 little risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to be of service to
 its members, but a large hardbound book with color illustrations throughout
 cannot be really inexpensive.

 The book is the story of what happens when a caver with an engineering
 bent buys property in Virginia that contains small caves and potential
 digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave with entrances on Lucas's
 property and that of a neighbor, including the Water Sinks system,
 Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The exploration of these caves has
 been unusually well documented, both in trip reports and photographs.
 Besides maps and descriptions of the caves, the book contains reports on
 essentially all the digging or exploration trips, mostly written by Lucas.
 I actually found the trip reports much more interesting reading than the
 formal cave descriptions, as they give a better idea of the caves and the
 effort that went into finding and mapping them. The technical aspects are
 fascinating, especially the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing
 breakdown and creating airflow to locate connections. Straws, however,
 are nowhere really described.
 The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and the design and layout, by
 Lucas and Farrar, are very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred color
 photographs could have used some color adjustment, but generally they
 illustrate the work and the caves very well. A special effort seems to have
 been made to include lots of clear photographs of the participants in the
 projects. (One of them would make a good hobbit.) Portraits on pages 101
 and 104 are especially nice.

 I can't deny that this is an expensive book about a pretty narrow subject,
 and the story could have been told almost as well in a less costly way. (No
 profit is being made by anybody but Lulu.com.) To anyone who really likes
 cave books, it's worth it.

 Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result in this case is sturdily
 bound in a printed hardcover. They also sell a number of other books on
 caves and caving. If you just search for caves you'll have to wade through
 scores of probably awful self-published novels. Besides Water Sinks, worthy
 of note are The Hollow Mountain: 1974–2006 by the Imperial College Caving
 Club (deep-cave exploration, printed paperback or free PDF, reviewed in
 March 2008 NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques manual, paperback,
 reviewed August 2002), and D. F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue,
 paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon
 --**--
 Today is the last day of your life so far.
 --**--
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


 --**--**-
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.comtexascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: 
 texascavers-help@texascavers.**comtexascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review

[Charles Goldsmith]

Bill, is the author selling the pdf format anywhere?


On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.comwrote:

 I'm sure this won't raise a lot of interest, but...

 Caves and Karst of the Water Sinks Area. Philip C. Lucas. Revised edition,
 2012. 8.25 by 10.25 inches, 369 pages, hardbound. $95.58 plus postage from
 lulu.com; search for Philip Lucas.

 This is a great book. After I received the privately published book, I
 delayed reviewing it, hoping that the NSS would pick it up, but for some
 reason they passed. They could have published it with almost no effort and
 little risk and sold it for  good  bit less, if only to be of service to
 its members, but a large hardbound book with color illustrations throughout
 cannot be really inexpensive.

 The book is the story of what happens when a caver with an engineering
 bent buys property in Virginia that contains small caves and potential
 digs. The result has been fifteen miles of cave with entrances on Lucas's
 property and that of a neighbor, including the Water Sinks system,
 Helictite Cave, and Wishing Well Cave. The exploration of these caves has
 been unusually well documented, both in trip reports and photographs.
 Besides maps and descriptions of the caves, the book contains reports on
 essentially all the digging or exploration trips, mostly written by Lucas.
 I actually found the trip reports much more interesting reading than the
 formal cave descriptions, as they give a better idea of the caves and the
 effort that went into finding and mapping them. The technical aspects are
 fascinating, especially the innovative ways of temporarily stabilizing
 breakdown and creating airflow to locate connections. Straws, however,
 are nowhere really described.
 The editing by Nathan Farrar is excellent, and the design and layout, by
 Lucas and Farrar, are very well done. Some of the nearly six hundred color
 photographs could have used some color adjustment, but generally they
 illustrate the work and the caves very well. A special effort seems to have
 been made to include lots of clear photographs of the participants in the
 projects. (One of them would make a good hobbit.) Portraits on pages 101
 and 104 are especially nice.

 I can't deny that this is an expensive book about a pretty narrow subject,
 and the story could have been told almost as well in a less costly way. (No
 profit is being made by anybody but Lulu.com.) To anyone who really likes
 cave books, it's worth it.

 Lulu.com prints your copy on demand. The result in this case is sturdily
 bound in a printed hardcover. They also sell a number of other books on
 caves and caving. If you just search for caves you'll have to wade through
 scores of probably awful self-published novels. Besides Water Sinks, worthy
 of note are The Hollow Mountain: 1974–2006 by the Imperial College Caving
 Club (deep-cave exploration, printed paperback or free PDF, reviewed in
 March 2008 NSS News), Al Warild's Vertical (techniques manual, paperback,
 reviewed August 2002), and D. F. Machant's Life on a Line (rope rescue,
 paperback, reviewed June 2003).—Bill Mixon
 --**--
 Today is the last day of your life so far.
 --**--
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


 --**--**-
 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.comtexascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
 For additional commands, e-mail: 
 texascavers-help@texascavers.**comtexascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Book Review

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

I received a copy of this book as a gift (family friends with the publisher).  
Pint's highly descriptive writing style and humorous, down-to-earth view of the 
world makes this book a fun read.  The caves he describes are simply amazing 
and he makes it clear throughout that there is much, much more yet to be 
discovered under the sands.

 
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com



 From: R D Milhollin rdmilhol...@yahoo.com
To: Texascavers List texascavers@texascavers.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:51 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Book Review
 

UNDERGROUND IN ARABIA John Pint

 2012, Selwa Press  978-0-97011-575-1  $12.95 PB

(from Saudi Aramco World Sep/Oct 2012)

What happens when an American English teacher finds his way into Saudi 
Arabia's underground? This is the story John Pint tells in a witty, engaging 
and thoroughly entertaining record of his caving adventures during working 
stints in the kingdom beginning in 1981. Pint originally traded teaching and 
(caving) in France for a job at what is now King Fahd University of Petroleum 
and Minerals in Dhahran and resumed his hobby almost immediately. Soon, he and 
fellow explorers landed a big find near Ma'aqala, north of Riyadh, in an area 
rich with dahls, a term that means a natural pit that... might provide access 
to water, Pint notes. Exploration revealed natural formations like stalactites 
and gypsum flowers, previously undocumented in Saudi caves. This was just the 
beginning of Pint's quarter-century of spelunking in the kingdom, his finds 
enthralling and paving the way for academics to study a beautiful world beneath 
Saudi Arabia's often-forbidding
 surface.
-Caitlin Clark

Re: [Texascavers] Book Review

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

I received a copy of this book as a gift (family friends with the publisher).  
Pint's highly descriptive writing style and humorous, down-to-earth view of the 
world makes this book a fun read.  The caves he describes are simply amazing 
and he makes it clear throughout that there is much, much more yet to be 
discovered under the sands.

 
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com



 From: R D Milhollin rdmilhol...@yahoo.com
To: Texascavers List texascavers@texascavers.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:51 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Book Review
 

UNDERGROUND IN ARABIA John Pint

 2012, Selwa Press  978-0-97011-575-1  $12.95 PB

(from Saudi Aramco World Sep/Oct 2012)

What happens when an American English teacher finds his way into Saudi 
Arabia's underground? This is the story John Pint tells in a witty, engaging 
and thoroughly entertaining record of his caving adventures during working 
stints in the kingdom beginning in 1981. Pint originally traded teaching and 
(caving) in France for a job at what is now King Fahd University of Petroleum 
and Minerals in Dhahran and resumed his hobby almost immediately. Soon, he and 
fellow explorers landed a big find near Ma'aqala, north of Riyadh, in an area 
rich with dahls, a term that means a natural pit that... might provide access 
to water, Pint notes. Exploration revealed natural formations like stalactites 
and gypsum flowers, previously undocumented in Saudi caves. This was just the 
beginning of Pint's quarter-century of spelunking in the kingdom, his finds 
enthralling and paving the way for academics to study a beautiful world beneath 
Saudi Arabia's often-forbidding
 surface.
-Caitlin Clark

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

I finally got my hands on a copy of Cave Life of Oklahoma and Arkansas.  
After reading Mixon's screed (below), I was expecting the thing to fall apart 
in my hands, leaving nasty stains on my fingers.  
Not so.  
I found lots of useful and interesting information on the history of caving in 
the area, tons of information on the biology of cave organisms, and amazing 
photos.  I looked into the statistical analyses that Mixon wailed about and 
found them to be essentially identical to approaches employed by other 
researchers (Culver et al.).  In any case, there is much more to the book than 
stats.
I can't say that it is the best regional biospeleology book out there but I can 
say that one shouldn't put too much stock in reviews from someone who has an ax 
to grind with professional biologists and who dismisses conservation biology as 
simply a money making racket.  

I recommend this book to anyone interested in caves and cave biology in 
Arkansas and Oklahoma.

Andy


Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.

700 Billie Brooks Drive

Driftwood, Texas 78619

(512) 799-1095

a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Wed, 4/4/12, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:

From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: cave life
To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 12:54 PM

Cave Life of Oklahoma and Arkansas: Exploration and Conservation of 
Subterranean Biodiversity. G. O. Graening, Danté B. Fenolio, and Michael E. 
Slay. University of Oklahoma Press (Animal Natural History Series), Norman; 
2011. ISBN 978-0-8061-4223-4. 6 by 9 inches, 226 pages, hardbound. $59.95.

This small but expensive book is sort of a hybrid between an introduction to 
cave biology and its conservation in the area and a formal contract report for 
the Subterranean Biodiversity Project. A casual reader can get a pretty good 
notion about the principles of cave biology from parts of the text and the 
color photos, but he'll have to put up with an awful lot of pedantry and 
pseudo-science along the way, because the book is very heavily biased toward 
the report aspect. The authors have compiled an extensive record of animals 
seen in caves in Oklahoma and Arkansas, with 1355 taxa listed, 690 to the 
species level, in Appendix A. Much of the data resulted from generally brief 
visits to a large number of caves, where eyeball searches were used. But a 
considerable amount was obtained from extensive surveys of literature, from 
scientific papers to caving-club magazines. The authors recognize that this has 
resulted in a rather unsystematic database of a
 pretty random collection of observations, but that doesn't discourage them 
from applying lots of statistics. The actual scientific value of the book is 
the list of fauna and the caves in which they were observed, which in principle 
makes it possible to at least create distribution maps. However, that won't be 
easy in practice, because they've elected to put the distribution data in 
Appendix B, which is the list of caves and the serial numbers of the taxa in 
Appendix A that were seen in each of them. That means that to find out where a 
given species has been found one must search for its number throughout that 
fifteen-page Appendix B. It would have been a whole lot better to number the 
caves, not the taxa, and list the cave numbers for each taxon in Appendix A, 
with just the names (or, often, just cave-survey numbers) of the caves in 
numerical order in Appendix B.

The authors seem to think they were being paid by the number of literature 
citations they could cram into the text, and so the innocent reader is 
subjected, for example, to numerous citations for things that are common 
knowledge about biospeleology and can be found in any introduction to the 
subject. It's a rare paragraph that doesn't have several intrusive citations. 
Some pedantry, such as a half-page list of the collecting permits the project 
had, is easy to skip over, but then there are things like the information that 
they used Access 2007 (Microsoft Corp., Redmond, Washington). Who cares what 
database they used? Who else makes Access? How many Microsofts are there?

The pseudo-science comes in when the authors apply statistical techniques to 
their data, despite its acknowledged limitation and biases. For example, for 
each site they recorded qualitative data such as how extensively it is visited, 
lightly, moderately, or heavily. Then they applied a statistical test to see 
whether this affects species richness. In this case, they find that the most 
heavily visited caves have the greatest biological diversity, to their 
surprise, but this is just because cavers prefer to visit longer caves. 
Correlation is not causation. They fit curves to scatter plots of things like 
site richness versus site length, even though there is no theoretical reason to 
expect the data to fit that particular form of equation. In one case, they fit 
both linear and exponential 

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Tim Stich]

Great book review, Bill! I never fail to get a smile out of your write ups.

-Tim Stich

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

I agree, Tim.  

They are always entertaining, like listening to Rush Limbaugh.  

A discriminating reader should not confuse entertaining screeds with actual 
informed content.


Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.

700 Billie Brooks Drive

Driftwood, Texas 78619

(512) 799-1095

a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Thu, 4/19/12, Tim Stich timstic...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Tim Stich timstic...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life
To: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
Cc: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, April 19, 2012, 12:09 PM

Great book review, Bill! I never fail to get a smile out of your write ups.
 
-Tim Stich

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

I finally got my hands on a copy of Cave Life of Oklahoma and Arkansas.  
After reading Mixon's screed (below), I was expecting the thing to fall apart 
in my hands, leaving nasty stains on my fingers.  
Not so.  
I found lots of useful and interesting information on the history of caving in 
the area, tons of information on the biology of cave organisms, and amazing 
photos.  I looked into the statistical analyses that Mixon wailed about and 
found them to be essentially identical to approaches employed by other 
researchers (Culver et al.).  In any case, there is much more to the book than 
stats.
I can't say that it is the best regional biospeleology book out there but I can 
say that one shouldn't put too much stock in reviews from someone who has an ax 
to grind with professional biologists and who dismisses conservation biology as 
simply a money making racket.  

I recommend this book to anyone interested in caves and cave biology in 
Arkansas and Oklahoma.

Andy


Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.

700 Billie Brooks Drive

Driftwood, Texas 78619

(512) 799-1095

a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Wed, 4/4/12, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:

From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: cave life
To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 12:54 PM

Cave Life of Oklahoma and Arkansas: Exploration and Conservation of 
Subterranean Biodiversity. G. O. Graening, Danté B. Fenolio, and Michael E. 
Slay. University of Oklahoma Press (Animal Natural History Series), Norman; 
2011. ISBN 978-0-8061-4223-4. 6 by 9 inches, 226 pages, hardbound. $59.95.

This small but expensive book is sort of a hybrid between an introduction to 
cave biology and its conservation in the area and a formal contract report for 
the Subterranean Biodiversity Project. A casual reader can get a pretty good 
notion about the principles of cave biology from parts of the text and the 
color photos, but he'll have to put up with an awful lot of pedantry and 
pseudo-science along the way, because the book is very heavily biased toward 
the report aspect. The authors have compiled an extensive record of animals 
seen in caves in Oklahoma and Arkansas, with 1355 taxa listed, 690 to the 
species level, in Appendix A. Much of the data resulted from generally brief 
visits to a large number of caves, where eyeball searches were used. But a 
considerable amount was obtained from extensive surveys of literature, from 
scientific papers to caving-club magazines. The authors recognize that this has 
resulted in a rather unsystematic database of a
 pretty random collection of observations, but that doesn't discourage them 
from applying lots of statistics. The actual scientific value of the book is 
the list of fauna and the caves in which they were observed, which in principle 
makes it possible to at least create distribution maps. However, that won't be 
easy in practice, because they've elected to put the distribution data in 
Appendix B, which is the list of caves and the serial numbers of the taxa in 
Appendix A that were seen in each of them. That means that to find out where a 
given species has been found one must search for its number throughout that 
fifteen-page Appendix B. It would have been a whole lot better to number the 
caves, not the taxa, and list the cave numbers for each taxon in Appendix A, 
with just the names (or, often, just cave-survey numbers) of the caves in 
numerical order in Appendix B.

The authors seem to think they were being paid by the number of literature 
citations they could cram into the text, and so the innocent reader is 
subjected, for example, to numerous citations for things that are common 
knowledge about biospeleology and can be found in any introduction to the 
subject. It's a rare paragraph that doesn't have several intrusive citations. 
Some pedantry, such as a half-page list of the collecting permits the project 
had, is easy to skip over, but then there are things like the information that 
they used Access 2007 (Microsoft Corp., Redmond, Washington). Who cares what 
database they used? Who else makes Access? How many Microsofts are there?

The pseudo-science comes in when the authors apply statistical techniques to 
their data, despite its acknowledged limitation and biases. For example, for 
each site they recorded qualitative data such as how extensively it is visited, 
lightly, moderately, or heavily. Then they applied a statistical test to see 
whether this affects species richness. In this case, they find that the most 
heavily visited caves have the greatest biological diversity, to their 
surprise, but this is just because cavers prefer to visit longer caves. 
Correlation is not causation. They fit curves to scatter plots of things like 
site richness versus site length, even though there is no theoretical reason to 
expect the data to fit that particular form of equation. In one 

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Tim Stich]

Great book review, Bill! I never fail to get a smile out of your write ups.

-Tim Stich

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

I agree, Tim.  

They are always entertaining, like listening to Rush Limbaugh.  

A discriminating reader should not confuse entertaining screeds with actual 
informed content.


Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.

700 Billie Brooks Drive

Driftwood, Texas 78619

(512) 799-1095

a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Thu, 4/19/12, Tim Stich timstic...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Tim Stich timstic...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life
To: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
Cc: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, April 19, 2012, 12:09 PM

Great book review, Bill! I never fail to get a smile out of your write ups.
 
-Tim Stich

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

I finally got my hands on a copy of Cave Life of Oklahoma and Arkansas.  
After reading Mixon's screed (below), I was expecting the thing to fall apart 
in my hands, leaving nasty stains on my fingers.  
Not so.  
I found lots of useful and interesting information on the history of caving in 
the area, tons of information on the biology of cave organisms, and amazing 
photos.  I looked into the statistical analyses that Mixon wailed about and 
found them to be essentially identical to approaches employed by other 
researchers (Culver et al.).  In any case, there is much more to the book than 
stats.
I can't say that it is the best regional biospeleology book out there but I can 
say that one shouldn't put too much stock in reviews from someone who has an ax 
to grind with professional biologists and who dismisses conservation biology as 
simply a money making racket.  

I recommend this book to anyone interested in caves and cave biology in 
Arkansas and Oklahoma.

Andy


Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.

700 Billie Brooks Drive

Driftwood, Texas 78619

(512) 799-1095

a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Wed, 4/4/12, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:

From: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: cave life
To: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2012, 12:54 PM

Cave Life of Oklahoma and Arkansas: Exploration and Conservation of 
Subterranean Biodiversity. G. O. Graening, Danté B. Fenolio, and Michael E. 
Slay. University of Oklahoma Press (Animal Natural History Series), Norman; 
2011. ISBN 978-0-8061-4223-4. 6 by 9 inches, 226 pages, hardbound. $59.95.

This small but expensive book is sort of a hybrid between an introduction to 
cave biology and its conservation in the area and a formal contract report for 
the Subterranean Biodiversity Project. A casual reader can get a pretty good 
notion about the principles of cave biology from parts of the text and the 
color photos, but he'll have to put up with an awful lot of pedantry and 
pseudo-science along the way, because the book is very heavily biased toward 
the report aspect. The authors have compiled an extensive record of animals 
seen in caves in Oklahoma and Arkansas, with 1355 taxa listed, 690 to the 
species level, in Appendix A. Much of the data resulted from generally brief 
visits to a large number of caves, where eyeball searches were used. But a 
considerable amount was obtained from extensive surveys of literature, from 
scientific papers to caving-club magazines. The authors recognize that this has 
resulted in a rather unsystematic database of a
 pretty random collection of observations, but that doesn't discourage them 
from applying lots of statistics. The actual scientific value of the book is 
the list of fauna and the caves in which they were observed, which in principle 
makes it possible to at least create distribution maps. However, that won't be 
easy in practice, because they've elected to put the distribution data in 
Appendix B, which is the list of caves and the serial numbers of the taxa in 
Appendix A that were seen in each of them. That means that to find out where a 
given species has been found one must search for its number throughout that 
fifteen-page Appendix B. It would have been a whole lot better to number the 
caves, not the taxa, and list the cave numbers for each taxon in Appendix A, 
with just the names (or, often, just cave-survey numbers) of the caves in 
numerical order in Appendix B.

The authors seem to think they were being paid by the number of literature 
citations they could cram into the text, and so the innocent reader is 
subjected, for example, to numerous citations for things that are common 
knowledge about biospeleology and can be found in any introduction to the 
subject. It's a rare paragraph that doesn't have several intrusive citations. 
Some pedantry, such as a half-page list of the collecting permits the project 
had, is easy to skip over, but then there are things like the information that 
they used Access 2007 (Microsoft Corp., Redmond, Washington). Who cares what 
database they used? Who else makes Access? How many Microsofts are there?

The pseudo-science comes in when the authors apply statistical techniques to 
their data, despite its acknowledged limitation and biases. For example, for 
each site they recorded qualitative data such as how extensively it is visited, 
lightly, moderately, or heavily. Then they applied a statistical test to see 
whether this affects species richness. In this case, they find that the most 
heavily visited caves have the greatest biological diversity, to their 
surprise, but this is just because cavers prefer to visit longer caves. 
Correlation is not causation. They fit curves to scatter plots of things like 
site richness versus site length, even though there is no theoretical reason to 
expect the data to fit that particular form of equation. In one 

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Tim Stich]

Great book review, Bill! I never fail to get a smile out of your write ups.

-Tim Stich

Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

I agree, Tim.  

They are always entertaining, like listening to Rush Limbaugh.  

A discriminating reader should not confuse entertaining screeds with actual 
informed content.


Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.

700 Billie Brooks Drive

Driftwood, Texas 78619

(512) 799-1095

a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Thu, 4/19/12, Tim Stich timstic...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Tim Stich timstic...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: cave life
To: Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com
Cc: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thursday, April 19, 2012, 12:09 PM

Great book review, Bill! I never fail to get a smile out of your write ups.
 
-Tim Stich

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Mark Minton]

At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:

My favorite
summing up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking in
Mexico after the 1966 convention: Lew's only traveling and survival
equipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are the
largest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and a
box of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,
and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- 
for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long way

from Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but his
great dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend any
money--not any--he may well not have any.


That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a 
governor of Florida.  In reference to hikers or whomever coming to 
visit being good for the economy, he said something like, They come 
with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't 
change either.


Mark Minton

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[tbsamsel]

Fla. Guvs. SKINK = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Tyree


Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything desirable in a candidate: a native of Florida, a college football star, and a decorated Vietnam veteran. He was dazzlingly handsome, charismatic, and articulate. He was also a former English professor at the University of Florida, though politically most people saw this as a handicap rather than an asset.
To the surprise of the Florida establishment, he was also one of the few, if not the only, honest men to hold the office. After he turned down a bribe from real estate developers, the developers assumed he was holding out for more money, and came back offering a larger bribe, along with a foolproof scheme for concealing the money. To their astonishment, the governor not only refused again, but had them arrested in an F.B.I. sting.
Tyree was also vehemently opposed to runaway growth in Florida, and gained national recognition for his passionate speeches and legislative proposals to discourage tourism, curtail land development, and protect the environment. (For example, one of his proposed laws would have required any boat driver who killed a manatee to immediately forfeit his boat, pay a $10,000 fine or go to jail for forty-five days, and bury the dead animal himself at a public ceremony).
Appalled, a group of Florida special interests pooled their resources to neutralize the governor politically, by bribing majorities in the state cabinet and the legislature to ignore or reject all of his initiatives.
Years later, the executive assistant to the current governor reviews Tyree’s history, and marvels at the futility of his struggle:

As popular as Clinton Tyree had been with the common folk of Florida, he stood no chance – none whatsoever – of disabling the machinery of greed and converting the legislature into a body of foresight and honest ethics. It was boggling to think a sane person would even try.
On the same day that the crooked developers who had tried to bribe Tyree were convicted, but punished with nothing more than probation, the legislature voted unanimously (except for the governor) to sell the original wildlife preserve that they’d been after to another developer. On that day, Tyree quit and disappeared from the Governor's mansion. At first, Tyree was believed kidnapped, until a notarized letter of resignation was sent to the Capitol and verified by the FBI.
He became a wild hermit, living first in Harney County (a fictional Florida county), where he adopted the name "Skink,” and was simply viewed as an eccentric, albeit a potentially violent one.
Over the years, he makes infrequent appearances over South Florida, becoming something of an urban legend.

Aug 8, 2011 11:17:10 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:
At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:My favoritesumming up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking inMexico after the 1966 convention: "Lew's only traveling and survivalequipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are thelargest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and abox of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long wayfrom Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but hisgreat dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend anymoney--not any--he may well not have any.That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a governor of Florida. In reference to hikers or whomever coming to visit being good for the economy, he said something like, "They come with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't change either."Mark MintonPlease reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

Well,
  You absolutely must read Carl Hiassen's book, Sick Puppy.  A fictional 
portayal of the guv in question plays a prominent role.
 
Andy

Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Mon, 8/8/11, tbsam...@verizon.net tbsam...@verizon.net wrote:


From: tbsam...@verizon.net tbsam...@verizon.net
Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking
To: mmin...@caver.net
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 11:29 AM



Fla. Guvs. SKINK =  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Tyree
 

Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything desirable in a 
candidate: a native of Florida, a college football star, and a decorated 
Vietnam veteran. He was dazzlingly handsome, charismatic, and articulate. He 
was also a former English professor at the University of Florida, though 
politically most people saw this as a handicap rather than an asset.
To the surprise of the Florida establishment, he was also one of the few, if 
not the only, honest men to hold the office. After he turned down a bribe from 
real estate developers, the developers assumed he was holding out for more 
money, and came back offering a larger bribe, along with a foolproof scheme for 
concealing the money. To their astonishment, the governor not only refused 
again, but had them arrested in an F.B.I. sting.
Tyree was also vehemently opposed to runaway growth in Florida, and gained 
national recognition for his passionate speeches and legislative proposals to 
discourage tourism, curtail land development, and protect the environment. (For 
example, one of his proposed laws would have required any boat driver who 
killed a manatee to immediately forfeit his boat, pay a $10,000 fine or go to 
jail for forty-five days, and bury the dead animal himself at a public 
ceremony).
Appalled, a group of Florida special interests pooled their resources to 
neutralize the governor politically, by bribing majorities in the state cabinet 
and the legislature to ignore or reject all of his initiatives.
Years later, the executive assistant to the current governor reviews Tyree’s 
history, and marvels at the futility of his struggle:

As popular as Clinton Tyree had been with the common folk of Florida, he stood 
no chance – none whatsoever – of disabling the machinery of greed and 
converting the legislature into a body of foresight and honest ethics. It was 
boggling to think a sane person would even try.
On the same day that the crooked developers who had tried to bribe Tyree were 
convicted, but punished with nothing more than probation, the legislature voted 
unanimously (except for the governor) to sell the original wildlife preserve 
that they’d been after to another developer. On that day, Tyree quit and 
disappeared from the Governor's mansion. At first, Tyree was believed 
kidnapped, until a notarized letter of resignation was sent to the Capitol and 
verified by the FBI.
He became a wild hermit, living first in Harney County (a fictional Florida 
county), where he adopted the name Skink,” and was simply viewed as an 
eccentric, albeit a potentially violent one.
Over the years, he makes infrequent appearances over South Florida, becoming 
something of an urban legend.
 



Aug 8, 2011 11:17:10 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:

At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:
My favorite
summing up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking in
Mexico after the 1966 convention: Lew's only traveling and survival
equipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are the
largest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and a
box of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,
and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- 
for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long way
from Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but his
great dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend any
money--not any--he may well not have any.

That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a 
governor of Florida. In reference to hikers or whomever coming to 
visit being good for the economy, he said something like, They come 
with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't 
change either.

Mark Minton

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

- Visit our 
website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com 

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Alex Sproul]

Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything 
desirable in a candidate...

Not so fast, Ted!  I, for one, have read a lot of Carl Hiaasen, too, in 
which Tyree is a frequent (and wonderful) character.

Yes, you acknowledged your plagiarism with your Wikipedia link, 
but who actually follows those (or believes everything Wiki says, for 
that matter)?

Alex

--
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster
www.caves.org

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Rod Goke]

Mark,You probably are thinking of the story I posted to Texascavers May 1, 2010. A copy of that message is appended as the "Forwarded Message" below. I believe that the original statement was made by a Florida state legislator instead of the governor, but your memory was close.Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton <mmin...@caver.net>Sent: Aug 8, 2011 11:16 AMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew BickingAt 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:My favoritesumming up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking inMexico after the 1966 convention: "Lew's only traveling and survivalequipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are thelargest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and abox of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long wayfrom Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but hisgreat dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend anymoney--not any--he may well not have any. That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a governor of Florida.  In reference to hikers or whomever coming to visit being good for the economy, he said something like, "They come with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't change either."Mark MintonPlease reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Forwarded Message-From: Rod Goke <rod.g...@earthlink.net>Sent: May 1, 2010 6:47 AMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: Traveling with $5 per personBack when Texas cavers and hippies were visiting Mexico with only $5 per person, I was a caver and graduate student in Florida. At that time, some backpacking enthusiasts were trying to get the State to build more hiking trails and were trying to win support for the project by suggesting that it would help Florida's economy by attracting more tourists. At least one state legislator, however, was not impressed with this argument, and he made headlines by saying, "The average backpacker comes to the State with one pair of underwear and a $5 bill, and he never changes either."Not many Florida cavers traveled to Mexico, since most of us couldn't afford to travel that far, but during breaks, we often went caving in the TAG (Tennessee/Alabama/Georgia) region on similarly cheap travel budgets. Sometimes we'd camp in tents, but for only 25 cents per night per person (dropped into an unsupervised coin jar via the honor system), we could stay at the TAG House, an old semi-abandoned farm house with one light bulb, one wood/coal burning stove, and no plumbing. At other times we negotiated a deal with a certain cheap motel in Alabama, where we could rent 1 or 2 rooms for a week or more with no sheets or towels and with no limit on how many cavers could share a room. Sometimes we'd pack so many cavers into a room that the motel actually cost us less per person than the TAG House!   Cheapskate travels weren't just in Mexico. Cavers found ways to travel cheaply wherever we went back then.Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton <mmin...@caver.net>Sent: Apr 30, 2010 3:09 PMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: [Texascavers] Re:  Mexican paperwork It is true that back in the 70s or thereabouts tourists were sometimes asked to prove that they had enough money to survive during their stay in Mexico.  The amount needed was not specified and seemed to be up to the admitting customs official to decide.  The problem for cavers who were camping out in the mountains was that we needed far less cash than the average tourist, so it sometimes seemed like we didn't have enough.  On at least one trip I was on when this was a problem, we pooled our money and gave it all to one person, who then went through the line and got his permit.  Then he gave the cash to the next person, etc.  It took a bit longer, but we all got through with the same wad of cash.  :-)Mark MintonAt 02:22 PM 4/30/2010, Gill Edigar wrote:On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Fofo <gonza...@msu.edu> wrote:...so I guess that now when getting a visa for Mexico people are better off having some credit card or bank statements and pay stubs.Mixon Bill wrote, on 30/4/10 9:54 :That wouldhave been entertaining back in the old days of Mexican caving (thesixties), when eight hippi gringo cavers in one truck with $5 cash eachwould head into Mexico to look for pits.The $5 story is true. On at least one occasion I went to Bustamante for a long weekend with only 5 bucks in my pocket--and came back with change. In those days $40 in cash was 'proof of solvency'. I would guess that 300 or 400 dollars would do the trick today--for a short trip at least. For a 180-day permit (I must repeat that they are not visas) it would be hard to carry several thous

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Mark Minton]

At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:

My favorite
summing up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking in
Mexico after the 1966 convention: Lew's only traveling and survival
equipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are the
largest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and a
box of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,
and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- 
for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long way

from Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but his
great dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend any
money--not any--he may well not have any.


That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a 
governor of Florida.  In reference to hikers or whomever coming to 
visit being good for the economy, he said something like, They come 
with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't 
change either.


Mark Minton

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
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Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[tbsamsel]

Fla. Guvs. SKINK = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Tyree


Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything desirable in a candidate: a native of Florida, a college football star, and a decorated Vietnam veteran. He was dazzlingly handsome, charismatic, and articulate. He was also a former English professor at the University of Florida, though politically most people saw this as a handicap rather than an asset.
To the surprise of the Florida establishment, he was also one of the few, if not the only, honest men to hold the office. After he turned down a bribe from real estate developers, the developers assumed he was holding out for more money, and came back offering a larger bribe, along with a foolproof scheme for concealing the money. To their astonishment, the governor not only refused again, but had them arrested in an F.B.I. sting.
Tyree was also vehemently opposed to runaway growth in Florida, and gained national recognition for his passionate speeches and legislative proposals to discourage tourism, curtail land development, and protect the environment. (For example, one of his proposed laws would have required any boat driver who killed a manatee to immediately forfeit his boat, pay a $10,000 fine or go to jail for forty-five days, and bury the dead animal himself at a public ceremony).
Appalled, a group of Florida special interests pooled their resources to neutralize the governor politically, by bribing majorities in the state cabinet and the legislature to ignore or reject all of his initiatives.
Years later, the executive assistant to the current governor reviews Tyree’s history, and marvels at the futility of his struggle:

As popular as Clinton Tyree had been with the common folk of Florida, he stood no chance – none whatsoever – of disabling the machinery of greed and converting the legislature into a body of foresight and honest ethics. It was boggling to think a sane person would even try.
On the same day that the crooked developers who had tried to bribe Tyree were convicted, but punished with nothing more than probation, the legislature voted unanimously (except for the governor) to sell the original wildlife preserve that they’d been after to another developer. On that day, Tyree quit and disappeared from the Governor's mansion. At first, Tyree was believed kidnapped, until a notarized letter of resignation was sent to the Capitol and verified by the FBI.
He became a wild hermit, living first in Harney County (a fictional Florida county), where he adopted the name "Skink,” and was simply viewed as an eccentric, albeit a potentially violent one.
Over the years, he makes infrequent appearances over South Florida, becoming something of an urban legend.

Aug 8, 2011 11:17:10 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:
At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:My favoritesumming up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking inMexico after the 1966 convention: "Lew's only traveling and survivalequipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are thelargest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and abox of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long wayfrom Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but hisgreat dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend anymoney--not any--he may well not have any.That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a governor of Florida. In reference to hikers or whomever coming to visit being good for the economy, he said something like, "They come with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't change either."Mark MintonPlease reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

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Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

Well,
  You absolutely must read Carl Hiassen's book, Sick Puppy.  A fictional 
portayal of the guv in question plays a prominent role.
 
Andy

Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Mon, 8/8/11, tbsam...@verizon.net tbsam...@verizon.net wrote:


From: tbsam...@verizon.net tbsam...@verizon.net
Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking
To: mmin...@caver.net
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 11:29 AM



Fla. Guvs. SKINK =  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Tyree
 

Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything desirable in a 
candidate: a native of Florida, a college football star, and a decorated 
Vietnam veteran. He was dazzlingly handsome, charismatic, and articulate. He 
was also a former English professor at the University of Florida, though 
politically most people saw this as a handicap rather than an asset.
To the surprise of the Florida establishment, he was also one of the few, if 
not the only, honest men to hold the office. After he turned down a bribe from 
real estate developers, the developers assumed he was holding out for more 
money, and came back offering a larger bribe, along with a foolproof scheme for 
concealing the money. To their astonishment, the governor not only refused 
again, but had them arrested in an F.B.I. sting.
Tyree was also vehemently opposed to runaway growth in Florida, and gained 
national recognition for his passionate speeches and legislative proposals to 
discourage tourism, curtail land development, and protect the environment. (For 
example, one of his proposed laws would have required any boat driver who 
killed a manatee to immediately forfeit his boat, pay a $10,000 fine or go to 
jail for forty-five days, and bury the dead animal himself at a public 
ceremony).
Appalled, a group of Florida special interests pooled their resources to 
neutralize the governor politically, by bribing majorities in the state cabinet 
and the legislature to ignore or reject all of his initiatives.
Years later, the executive assistant to the current governor reviews Tyree’s 
history, and marvels at the futility of his struggle:

As popular as Clinton Tyree had been with the common folk of Florida, he stood 
no chance – none whatsoever – of disabling the machinery of greed and 
converting the legislature into a body of foresight and honest ethics. It was 
boggling to think a sane person would even try.
On the same day that the crooked developers who had tried to bribe Tyree were 
convicted, but punished with nothing more than probation, the legislature voted 
unanimously (except for the governor) to sell the original wildlife preserve 
that they’d been after to another developer. On that day, Tyree quit and 
disappeared from the Governor's mansion. At first, Tyree was believed 
kidnapped, until a notarized letter of resignation was sent to the Capitol and 
verified by the FBI.
He became a wild hermit, living first in Harney County (a fictional Florida 
county), where he adopted the name Skink,” and was simply viewed as an 
eccentric, albeit a potentially violent one.
Over the years, he makes infrequent appearances over South Florida, becoming 
something of an urban legend.
 



Aug 8, 2011 11:17:10 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:

At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:
My favorite
summing up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking in
Mexico after the 1966 convention: Lew's only traveling and survival
equipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are the
largest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and a
box of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,
and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- 
for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long way
from Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but his
great dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend any
money--not any--he may well not have any.

That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a 
governor of Florida. In reference to hikers or whomever coming to 
visit being good for the economy, he said something like, They come 
with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't 
change either.

Mark Minton

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


-
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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Alex Sproul]

Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything 
desirable in a candidate...

Not so fast, Ted!  I, for one, have read a lot of Carl Hiaasen, too, in 
which Tyree is a frequent (and wonderful) character.

Yes, you acknowledged your plagiarism with your Wikipedia link, 
but who actually follows those (or believes everything Wiki says, for 
that matter)?

Alex

--
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster
www.caves.org

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Rod Goke]

Mark,You probably are thinking of the story I posted to Texascavers May 1, 2010. A copy of that message is appended as the "Forwarded Message" below. I believe that the original statement was made by a Florida state legislator instead of the governor, but your memory was close.Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton <mmin...@caver.net>Sent: Aug 8, 2011 11:16 AMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew BickingAt 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:My favoritesumming up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking inMexico after the 1966 convention: "Lew's only traveling and survivalequipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are thelargest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and abox of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long wayfrom Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but hisgreat dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend anymoney--not any--he may well not have any. That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a governor of Florida.  In reference to hikers or whomever coming to visit being good for the economy, he said something like, "They come with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't change either."Mark MintonPlease reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Forwarded Message-From: Rod Goke <rod.g...@earthlink.net>Sent: May 1, 2010 6:47 AMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: Traveling with $5 per personBack when Texas cavers and hippies were visiting Mexico with only $5 per person, I was a caver and graduate student in Florida. At that time, some backpacking enthusiasts were trying to get the State to build more hiking trails and were trying to win support for the project by suggesting that it would help Florida's economy by attracting more tourists. At least one state legislator, however, was not impressed with this argument, and he made headlines by saying, "The average backpacker comes to the State with one pair of underwear and a $5 bill, and he never changes either."Not many Florida cavers traveled to Mexico, since most of us couldn't afford to travel that far, but during breaks, we often went caving in the TAG (Tennessee/Alabama/Georgia) region on similarly cheap travel budgets. Sometimes we'd camp in tents, but for only 25 cents per night per person (dropped into an unsupervised coin jar via the honor system), we could stay at the TAG House, an old semi-abandoned farm house with one light bulb, one wood/coal burning stove, and no plumbing. At other times we negotiated a deal with a certain cheap motel in Alabama, where we could rent 1 or 2 rooms for a week or more with no sheets or towels and with no limit on how many cavers could share a room. Sometimes we'd pack so many cavers into a room that the motel actually cost us less per person than the TAG House!   Cheapskate travels weren't just in Mexico. Cavers found ways to travel cheaply wherever we went back then.Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton <mmin...@caver.net>Sent: Apr 30, 2010 3:09 PMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: [Texascavers] Re:  Mexican paperwork It is true that back in the 70s or thereabouts tourists were sometimes asked to prove that they had enough money to survive during their stay in Mexico.  The amount needed was not specified and seemed to be up to the admitting customs official to decide.  The problem for cavers who were camping out in the mountains was that we needed far less cash than the average tourist, so it sometimes seemed like we didn't have enough.  On at least one trip I was on when this was a problem, we pooled our money and gave it all to one person, who then went through the line and got his permit.  Then he gave the cash to the next person, etc.  It took a bit longer, but we all got through with the same wad of cash.  :-)Mark MintonAt 02:22 PM 4/30/2010, Gill Edigar wrote:On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Fofo <gonza...@msu.edu> wrote:...so I guess that now when getting a visa for Mexico people are better off having some credit card or bank statements and pay stubs.Mixon Bill wrote, on 30/4/10 9:54 :That wouldhave been entertaining back in the old days of Mexican caving (thesixties), when eight hippi gringo cavers in one truck with $5 cash eachwould head into Mexico to look for pits.The $5 story is true. On at least one occasion I went to Bustamante for a long weekend with only 5 bucks in my pocket--and came back with change. In those days $40 in cash was 'proof of solvency'. I would guess that 300 or 400 dollars would do the trick today--for a short trip at least. For a 180-day permit (I must repeat that they are not visas) it would be hard to carry several thous

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Mark Minton]

At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:

My favorite
summing up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking in
Mexico after the 1966 convention: Lew's only traveling and survival
equipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are the
largest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and a
box of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,
and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- 
for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long way

from Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but his
great dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend any
money--not any--he may well not have any.


That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a 
governor of Florida.  In reference to hikers or whomever coming to 
visit being good for the economy, he said something like, They come 
with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't 
change either.


Mark Minton

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[tbsamsel]

Fla. Guvs. SKINK = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Tyree


Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything desirable in a candidate: a native of Florida, a college football star, and a decorated Vietnam veteran. He was dazzlingly handsome, charismatic, and articulate. He was also a former English professor at the University of Florida, though politically most people saw this as a handicap rather than an asset.
To the surprise of the Florida establishment, he was also one of the few, if not the only, honest men to hold the office. After he turned down a bribe from real estate developers, the developers assumed he was holding out for more money, and came back offering a larger bribe, along with a foolproof scheme for concealing the money. To their astonishment, the governor not only refused again, but had them arrested in an F.B.I. sting.
Tyree was also vehemently opposed to runaway growth in Florida, and gained national recognition for his passionate speeches and legislative proposals to discourage tourism, curtail land development, and protect the environment. (For example, one of his proposed laws would have required any boat driver who killed a manatee to immediately forfeit his boat, pay a $10,000 fine or go to jail for forty-five days, and bury the dead animal himself at a public ceremony).
Appalled, a group of Florida special interests pooled their resources to neutralize the governor politically, by bribing majorities in the state cabinet and the legislature to ignore or reject all of his initiatives.
Years later, the executive assistant to the current governor reviews Tyree’s history, and marvels at the futility of his struggle:

As popular as Clinton Tyree had been with the common folk of Florida, he stood no chance – none whatsoever – of disabling the machinery of greed and converting the legislature into a body of foresight and honest ethics. It was boggling to think a sane person would even try.
On the same day that the crooked developers who had tried to bribe Tyree were convicted, but punished with nothing more than probation, the legislature voted unanimously (except for the governor) to sell the original wildlife preserve that they’d been after to another developer. On that day, Tyree quit and disappeared from the Governor's mansion. At first, Tyree was believed kidnapped, until a notarized letter of resignation was sent to the Capitol and verified by the FBI.
He became a wild hermit, living first in Harney County (a fictional Florida county), where he adopted the name "Skink,” and was simply viewed as an eccentric, albeit a potentially violent one.
Over the years, he makes infrequent appearances over South Florida, becoming something of an urban legend.

Aug 8, 2011 11:17:10 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:
At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:My favoritesumming up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking inMexico after the 1966 convention: "Lew's only traveling and survivalequipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are thelargest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and abox of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long wayfrom Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but hisgreat dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend anymoney--not any--he may well not have any.That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a governor of Florida. In reference to hikers or whomever coming to visit being good for the economy, he said something like, "They come with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't change either."Mark MintonPlease reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

Well,
  You absolutely must read Carl Hiassen's book, Sick Puppy.  A fictional 
portayal of the guv in question plays a prominent role.
 
Andy

Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com

--- On Mon, 8/8/11, tbsam...@verizon.net tbsam...@verizon.net wrote:


From: tbsam...@verizon.net tbsam...@verizon.net
Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking
To: mmin...@caver.net
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Monday, August 8, 2011, 11:29 AM



Fla. Guvs. SKINK =  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Tyree
 

Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything desirable in a 
candidate: a native of Florida, a college football star, and a decorated 
Vietnam veteran. He was dazzlingly handsome, charismatic, and articulate. He 
was also a former English professor at the University of Florida, though 
politically most people saw this as a handicap rather than an asset.
To the surprise of the Florida establishment, he was also one of the few, if 
not the only, honest men to hold the office. After he turned down a bribe from 
real estate developers, the developers assumed he was holding out for more 
money, and came back offering a larger bribe, along with a foolproof scheme for 
concealing the money. To their astonishment, the governor not only refused 
again, but had them arrested in an F.B.I. sting.
Tyree was also vehemently opposed to runaway growth in Florida, and gained 
national recognition for his passionate speeches and legislative proposals to 
discourage tourism, curtail land development, and protect the environment. (For 
example, one of his proposed laws would have required any boat driver who 
killed a manatee to immediately forfeit his boat, pay a $10,000 fine or go to 
jail for forty-five days, and bury the dead animal himself at a public 
ceremony).
Appalled, a group of Florida special interests pooled their resources to 
neutralize the governor politically, by bribing majorities in the state cabinet 
and the legislature to ignore or reject all of his initiatives.
Years later, the executive assistant to the current governor reviews Tyree’s 
history, and marvels at the futility of his struggle:

As popular as Clinton Tyree had been with the common folk of Florida, he stood 
no chance – none whatsoever – of disabling the machinery of greed and 
converting the legislature into a body of foresight and honest ethics. It was 
boggling to think a sane person would even try.
On the same day that the crooked developers who had tried to bribe Tyree were 
convicted, but punished with nothing more than probation, the legislature voted 
unanimously (except for the governor) to sell the original wildlife preserve 
that they’d been after to another developer. On that day, Tyree quit and 
disappeared from the Governor's mansion. At first, Tyree was believed 
kidnapped, until a notarized letter of resignation was sent to the Capitol and 
verified by the FBI.
He became a wild hermit, living first in Harney County (a fictional Florida 
county), where he adopted the name Skink,” and was simply viewed as an 
eccentric, albeit a potentially violent one.
Over the years, he makes infrequent appearances over South Florida, becoming 
something of an urban legend.
 



Aug 8, 2011 11:17:10 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:

At 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:
My favorite
summing up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking in
Mexico after the 1966 convention: Lew's only traveling and survival
equipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are the
largest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and a
box of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,
and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- 
for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long way
from Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but his
great dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend any
money--not any--he may well not have any.

That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a 
governor of Florida. In reference to hikers or whomever coming to 
visit being good for the economy, he said something like, They come 
with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't 
change either.

Mark Minton

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 


-
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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Alex Sproul]

Tyree was Governor of Florida in the 1970s. He was everything 
desirable in a candidate...

Not so fast, Ted!  I, for one, have read a lot of Carl Hiaasen, too, in 
which Tyree is a frequent (and wonderful) character.

Yes, you acknowledged your plagiarism with your Wikipedia link, 
but who actually follows those (or believes everything Wiki says, for 
that matter)?

Alex

--
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster
www.caves.org

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Rod Goke]

Mark,You probably are thinking of the story I posted to Texascavers May 1, 2010. A copy of that message is appended as the "Forwarded Message" below. I believe that the original statement was made by a Florida state legislator instead of the governor, but your memory was close.Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton <mmin...@caver.net>Sent: Aug 8, 2011 11:16 AMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew BickingAt 10:32 AM 8/6/2011, Mixon Bill wrote:My favoritesumming up was written by Squire Lewis on encountering Bicking inMexico after the 1966 convention: "Lew's only traveling and survivalequipment consists of a small Kelty pack whose sole contents are thelargest Spanish dictionary every printed--about a 20-pounder--and abox of Mexican crackers. . . . His only clothes are those he wears,and he obviously has some warped goal of not taking them off--ever-- for washing or any other purpose. . . . He has gotten all the long wayfrom Baltimore to California to [Mexico City] with nothing but hisgreat dictionary and his crackers. We have never seen him spend anymoney--not any--he may well not have any. That reminds me of a statement attributed, I believe, to a governor of Florida.  In reference to hikers or whomever coming to visit being good for the economy, he said something like, "They come with only one pair of underwear and a five-dollar bill and don't change either."Mark MintonPlease reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org -Forwarded Message-From: Rod Goke <rod.g...@earthlink.net>Sent: May 1, 2010 6:47 AMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: Re: Traveling with $5 per personBack when Texas cavers and hippies were visiting Mexico with only $5 per person, I was a caver and graduate student in Florida. At that time, some backpacking enthusiasts were trying to get the State to build more hiking trails and were trying to win support for the project by suggesting that it would help Florida's economy by attracting more tourists. At least one state legislator, however, was not impressed with this argument, and he made headlines by saying, "The average backpacker comes to the State with one pair of underwear and a $5 bill, and he never changes either."Not many Florida cavers traveled to Mexico, since most of us couldn't afford to travel that far, but during breaks, we often went caving in the TAG (Tennessee/Alabama/Georgia) region on similarly cheap travel budgets. Sometimes we'd camp in tents, but for only 25 cents per night per person (dropped into an unsupervised coin jar via the honor system), we could stay at the TAG House, an old semi-abandoned farm house with one light bulb, one wood/coal burning stove, and no plumbing. At other times we negotiated a deal with a certain cheap motel in Alabama, where we could rent 1 or 2 rooms for a week or more with no sheets or towels and with no limit on how many cavers could share a room. Sometimes we'd pack so many cavers into a room that the motel actually cost us less per person than the TAG House!   Cheapskate travels weren't just in Mexico. Cavers found ways to travel cheaply wherever we went back then.Rod-Original Message-From: Mark Minton <mmin...@caver.net>Sent: Apr 30, 2010 3:09 PMTo: texascavers@texascavers.comSubject: [Texascavers] Re:  Mexican paperwork It is true that back in the 70s or thereabouts tourists were sometimes asked to prove that they had enough money to survive during their stay in Mexico.  The amount needed was not specified and seemed to be up to the admitting customs official to decide.  The problem for cavers who were camping out in the mountains was that we needed far less cash than the average tourist, so it sometimes seemed like we didn't have enough.  On at least one trip I was on when this was a problem, we pooled our money and gave it all to one person, who then went through the line and got his permit.  Then he gave the cash to the next person, etc.  It took a bit longer, but we all got through with the same wad of cash.  :-)Mark MintonAt 02:22 PM 4/30/2010, Gill Edigar wrote:On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Fofo <gonza...@msu.edu> wrote:...so I guess that now when getting a visa for Mexico people are better off having some credit card or bank statements and pay stubs.Mixon Bill wrote, on 30/4/10 9:54 :That wouldhave been entertaining back in the old days of Mexican caving (thesixties), when eight hippi gringo cavers in one truck with $5 cash eachwould head into Mexico to look for pits.The $5 story is true. On at least one occasion I went to Bustamante for a long weekend with only 5 bucks in my pocket--and came back with change. In those days $40 in cash was 'proof of solvency'. I would guess that 300 or 400 dollars would do the trick today--for a short trip at least. For a 180-day permit (I must repeat that they are not visas) it would be hard to carry several thous

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Carl Kunath]

Readers are reminded that Squire Lewis authored (and Old Man Wisdom 
illustrated) a wonderful book titled Chronicles of the Old Reading Grotto.  The 
passage Bill Mixon quotes about Lew Bicking appears on page 73-74 of that book.

This 1993 work is still in print and has occasionally been available at Texas 
caver functions.  It's a great read!  I commented on the book and about 
Squire's passing in a short article for the Texas Caver many years ago.  Here 
is the text of that article:

Squire



Squire Lewis passed on this last spring.  I didn't know about it at 
the time and got the news only after all the dust had settled. At the same time 
I learned of  a piece he had authored called CHRONICLES of the OLD READING 
GROTTO which details an incredible odyssey in the summer of 1966.   I just read 
this work, cover-to-cover; non-stop.  It's wonderful! This journey, made with 
two companions, spanned almost 17,000 miles coast to coast and Pennsylvania to 
Acapulco.  It's not the trip that is important, it's the way they did it. It's 
how they traveled, what they saw and did and the conclusions they formed 
thereby.  This is a tale of the shifting values which lead up to the era later 
known as hippie-time.   But it's before hippies; before long hair and beads.  
It's about a time when questions were being asked about the way in which we 
lived, which things were really important, and how we as individuals fit into 
the larger puzzle.  It's about the realization that suits, ties, and the 
establishment aren't always right, or at least that they represent only one 
way of doing things.

Squire does a wonderful job of describing the era.  If you were 
there, you'll understand completely.  If you weren't, or were a little young 
(or old) at these times, you'll still come away with a good feeling as to what 
it was all about.  In a way, it's almost an anthropological source book.  Its a 
catalog of most of the things that regular folks never experience.  My family 
always did things the normal way.  On trips, we traveled eight hours in a 
normal day, took our meals where there were waiters or at least people in 
uniforms, and slept in vermin free hotels.  Had it not been for my association 
with caves and cavers, I might have completed my life without sleeping the 
night in the parking lot at Cueva de Cacahuamilpa or dining in a mosca infested 
restaurant in San Luis del Cordero, or. . . .

Because of people like Squire,  I learned an alternate life style; 
another way to view the planet.  After 30-odd years,  I have yet to meet  
people other than cavers who embrace that style, although I suspect that some 
of the climbers and rafters may come close, and I imagine that those outside 
the U.S. must commonly fall in step.  The difference is, in second-world 
countries, they are born to it in most cases and we, in the U.S., must come to 
it somehow.  The thing is, if you must have a soft bed and a hot shower and a 
store-bought meal on each occasion, you'll miss a lot and probably never know 
you missed it.

So. . .  you ought to buy, or at least read, this classic piece of 
caver-oriented literature.  It's 146 pages of great reading and wonderful 
illustrations by Charlie Loving [who is able to do to society with a cartoon 
what Squire did with text].

Squire and I were not friends.  Nodding acquaintances is about as 
close as we got.  That not withstanding,  I'll miss him considerably because of 
what he represented.  As they say in certain other circles upon the death of a 
respected elder:  We are diminished.



===Carl Kunath







-Original Message- 
From: Mixon Bill 
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 9:32 AM 
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking 

Lew Bicking: A Legendary American Cave Explorer. Edited by David W.  
Hughes. National Speleological Society; 2011. ISBN: 978-1-879961-40-1.  
7 by 10 inches, 324 pages plus plates, hardbound. $36; discounts for  
NSS members.

Solo Lew Bicking was an enthusiatic and hard-charging caver from his  
novice days in 1961 until his early death in a motorcycle accident in  
1966. He gave his name to the NSS's annual Lew Bicking Award for the  
exploration and mapping of a cave or group of caves. (Originally,  
documentation--publishing--was also a requirement, before the secrecy  
types got to it.) Bicking was best known for exploration in the East,  
especially the Friars Hole Cave System in West Virginia, but he went  
west a few times, including for the 1964 NSS convention in Texas and  
the 1966 convention in California, after both of which he did some  
post-convention caving in Mexico.

David Hughes's recent book on Vertical Bill Cuddington (NSS, 2008) was  
written to be read. This book is a compilation that can only be  
browsed. It contains what appears to be everything ever written about 

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking

[Carl Kunath]

Readers are reminded that Squire Lewis authored (and Old Man Wisdom 
illustrated) a wonderful book titled Chronicles of the Old Reading Grotto.  The 
passage Bill Mixon quotes about Lew Bicking appears on page 73-74 of that book.

This 1993 work is still in print and has occasionally been available at Texas 
caver functions.  It's a great read!  I commented on the book and about 
Squire's passing in a short article for the Texas Caver many years ago.  Here 
is the text of that article:

Squire



Squire Lewis passed on this last spring.  I didn't know about it at 
the time and got the news only after all the dust had settled. At the same time 
I learned of  a piece he had authored called CHRONICLES of the OLD READING 
GROTTO which details an incredible odyssey in the summer of 1966.   I just read 
this work, cover-to-cover; non-stop.  It's wonderful! This journey, made with 
two companions, spanned almost 17,000 miles coast to coast and Pennsylvania to 
Acapulco.  It's not the trip that is important, it's the way they did it. It's 
how they traveled, what they saw and did and the conclusions they formed 
thereby.  This is a tale of the shifting values which lead up to the era later 
known as hippie-time.   But it's before hippies; before long hair and beads.  
It's about a time when questions were being asked about the way in which we 
lived, which things were really important, and how we as individuals fit into 
the larger puzzle.  It's about the realization that suits, ties, and the 
establishment aren't always right, or at least that they represent only one 
way of doing things.

Squire does a wonderful job of describing the era.  If you were 
there, you'll understand completely.  If you weren't, or were a little young 
(or old) at these times, you'll still come away with a good feeling as to what 
it was all about.  In a way, it's almost an anthropological source book.  Its a 
catalog of most of the things that regular folks never experience.  My family 
always did things the normal way.  On trips, we traveled eight hours in a 
normal day, took our meals where there were waiters or at least people in 
uniforms, and slept in vermin free hotels.  Had it not been for my association 
with caves and cavers, I might have completed my life without sleeping the 
night in the parking lot at Cueva de Cacahuamilpa or dining in a mosca infested 
restaurant in San Luis del Cordero, or. . . .

Because of people like Squire,  I learned an alternate life style; 
another way to view the planet.  After 30-odd years,  I have yet to meet  
people other than cavers who embrace that style, although I suspect that some 
of the climbers and rafters may come close, and I imagine that those outside 
the U.S. must commonly fall in step.  The difference is, in second-world 
countries, they are born to it in most cases and we, in the U.S., must come to 
it somehow.  The thing is, if you must have a soft bed and a hot shower and a 
store-bought meal on each occasion, you'll miss a lot and probably never know 
you missed it.

So. . .  you ought to buy, or at least read, this classic piece of 
caver-oriented literature.  It's 146 pages of great reading and wonderful 
illustrations by Charlie Loving [who is able to do to society with a cartoon 
what Squire did with text].

Squire and I were not friends.  Nodding acquaintances is about as 
close as we got.  That not withstanding,  I'll miss him considerably because of 
what he represented.  As they say in certain other circles upon the death of a 
respected elder:  We are diminished.



===Carl Kunath







-Original Message- 
From: Mixon Bill 
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 9:32 AM 
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Lew Bicking 

Lew Bicking: A Legendary American Cave Explorer. Edited by David W.  
Hughes. National Speleological Society; 2011. ISBN: 978-1-879961-40-1.  
7 by 10 inches, 324 pages plus plates, hardbound. $36; discounts for  
NSS members.

Solo Lew Bicking was an enthusiatic and hard-charging caver from his  
novice days in 1961 until his early death in a motorcycle accident in  
1966. He gave his name to the NSS's annual Lew Bicking Award for the  
exploration and mapping of a cave or group of caves. (Originally,  
documentation--publishing--was also a requirement, before the secrecy  
types got to it.) Bicking was best known for exploration in the East,  
especially the Friars Hole Cave System in West Virginia, but he went  
west a few times, including for the 1964 NSS convention in Texas and  
the 1966 convention in California, after both of which he did some  
post-convention caving in Mexico.

David Hughes's recent book on Vertical Bill Cuddington (NSS, 2008) was  
written to be read. This book is a compilation that can only be  
browsed. It contains what appears to be everything ever written about 

RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

[Timothy Russey]

I had the opportunity to see Bob Zimmerman speak on the Cass cave system at the 
spring var this year, I'd recommend the book as the events surrounding the cave 
are all very interesting. There are also ongoing negotiations with the family 
that owns the property to have it reopened If I remember correctly. 


From: Mixon Bill [bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:37 PM
To: Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

The Survey of Cass Cave, Pocahontas County, West Virginia. Edited by
Robert Zimmerman, with cartography by Robert Zimmerman and Gregory S.
Springer. West Virginia Speleological Survey Monograph 4; 2011. 8.5 by
11 inches, 63 pages, softbound. $16 postpaid from 
www.wvass.org/publications.html
.

This new book on Cass is similar in format to WVASS Monograph 3 on
Cassell Cave (NSS News, November 2009). There is a history of the
cave, including two fatal accidents in notorious Suicide Falls; it is
named that after a genuine suicide in the cave years earlier. A
detailed text description of the cave and a clear chapter on geology
and speleogenesis follow. A set of twenty-three quad maps of the cave
plan is very nicely detailed, although it is, inevitably, rather
confusing where underlying passages are offset. The quads don't follow
a rigid grid, which minimizes the number of them that contain little
passage, but they don't overlap, so the important junction of Cass
Annex Cave with the Big Room is split between two sheets. The plans of
the passages do extend a quarter inch beyond the borders of the quads,
which makes it easier to follow them from page to page. There are many
cross-sections, but only one page with a couple of small-scale
profiles. A nice and fairly priced book on one of the most famous
caves in West Virginia, unfortunately now closed.—Bill Mixon

He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known.--Sir Richard Burton

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
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RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

[Geary Schindel]

Cass is an outstanding cave, my third vertical cave, and one of my favorites.  
I've spent a number of fine hours beyond the cat crawl, back in the days before 
polypro.  It would be wonderful if the NSS or one of the cave conservancies 
could purchase this cave, it is a wonderful setting near the town of Cass.

Maybe they can get it open for the NSS Convention next year.

Geary




-Original Message-
From: Timothy Russey [mailto:t...@pct.edu] 
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 12:22 PM
To: Mixon Bill; Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

I had the opportunity to see Bob Zimmerman speak on the Cass cave system at the 
spring var this year, I'd recommend the book as the events surrounding the cave 
are all very interesting. There are also ongoing negotiations with the family 
that owns the property to have it reopened If I remember correctly. 


From: Mixon Bill [bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:37 PM
To: Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

The Survey of Cass Cave, Pocahontas County, West Virginia. Edited by
Robert Zimmerman, with cartography by Robert Zimmerman and Gregory S.
Springer. West Virginia Speleological Survey Monograph 4; 2011. 8.5 by
11 inches, 63 pages, softbound. $16 postpaid from 
www.wvass.org/publications.html
.

This new book on Cass is similar in format to WVASS Monograph 3 on
Cassell Cave (NSS News, November 2009). There is a history of the
cave, including two fatal accidents in notorious Suicide Falls; it is
named that after a genuine suicide in the cave years earlier. A
detailed text description of the cave and a clear chapter on geology
and speleogenesis follow. A set of twenty-three quad maps of the cave
plan is very nicely detailed, although it is, inevitably, rather
confusing where underlying passages are offset. The quads don't follow
a rigid grid, which minimizes the number of them that contain little
passage, but they don't overlap, so the important junction of Cass
Annex Cave with the Big Room is split between two sheets. The plans of
the passages do extend a quarter inch beyond the borders of the quads,
which makes it easier to follow them from page to page. There are many
cross-sections, but only one page with a couple of small-scale
profiles. A nice and fairly priced book on one of the most famous
caves in West Virginia, unfortunately now closed.-Bill Mixon

He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known.--Sir Richard Burton

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

[Timothy Russey]

I had the opportunity to see Bob Zimmerman speak on the Cass cave system at the 
spring var this year, I'd recommend the book as the events surrounding the cave 
are all very interesting. There are also ongoing negotiations with the family 
that owns the property to have it reopened If I remember correctly. 


From: Mixon Bill [bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:37 PM
To: Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

The Survey of Cass Cave, Pocahontas County, West Virginia. Edited by
Robert Zimmerman, with cartography by Robert Zimmerman and Gregory S.
Springer. West Virginia Speleological Survey Monograph 4; 2011. 8.5 by
11 inches, 63 pages, softbound. $16 postpaid from 
www.wvass.org/publications.html
.

This new book on Cass is similar in format to WVASS Monograph 3 on
Cassell Cave (NSS News, November 2009). There is a history of the
cave, including two fatal accidents in notorious Suicide Falls; it is
named that after a genuine suicide in the cave years earlier. A
detailed text description of the cave and a clear chapter on geology
and speleogenesis follow. A set of twenty-three quad maps of the cave
plan is very nicely detailed, although it is, inevitably, rather
confusing where underlying passages are offset. The quads don't follow
a rigid grid, which minimizes the number of them that contain little
passage, but they don't overlap, so the important junction of Cass
Annex Cave with the Big Room is split between two sheets. The plans of
the passages do extend a quarter inch beyond the borders of the quads,
which makes it easier to follow them from page to page. There are many
cross-sections, but only one page with a couple of small-scale
profiles. A nice and fairly priced book on one of the most famous
caves in West Virginia, unfortunately now closed.—Bill Mixon

He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known.--Sir Richard Burton

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
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RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

[Geary Schindel]

Cass is an outstanding cave, my third vertical cave, and one of my favorites.  
I've spent a number of fine hours beyond the cat crawl, back in the days before 
polypro.  It would be wonderful if the NSS or one of the cave conservancies 
could purchase this cave, it is a wonderful setting near the town of Cass.

Maybe they can get it open for the NSS Convention next year.

Geary




-Original Message-
From: Timothy Russey [mailto:t...@pct.edu] 
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 12:22 PM
To: Mixon Bill; Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

I had the opportunity to see Bob Zimmerman speak on the Cass cave system at the 
spring var this year, I'd recommend the book as the events surrounding the cave 
are all very interesting. There are also ongoing negotiations with the family 
that owns the property to have it reopened If I remember correctly. 


From: Mixon Bill [bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:37 PM
To: Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

The Survey of Cass Cave, Pocahontas County, West Virginia. Edited by
Robert Zimmerman, with cartography by Robert Zimmerman and Gregory S.
Springer. West Virginia Speleological Survey Monograph 4; 2011. 8.5 by
11 inches, 63 pages, softbound. $16 postpaid from 
www.wvass.org/publications.html
.

This new book on Cass is similar in format to WVASS Monograph 3 on
Cassell Cave (NSS News, November 2009). There is a history of the
cave, including two fatal accidents in notorious Suicide Falls; it is
named that after a genuine suicide in the cave years earlier. A
detailed text description of the cave and a clear chapter on geology
and speleogenesis follow. A set of twenty-three quad maps of the cave
plan is very nicely detailed, although it is, inevitably, rather
confusing where underlying passages are offset. The quads don't follow
a rigid grid, which minimizes the number of them that contain little
passage, but they don't overlap, so the important junction of Cass
Annex Cave with the Big Room is split between two sheets. The plans of
the passages do extend a quarter inch beyond the borders of the quads,
which makes it easier to follow them from page to page. There are many
cross-sections, but only one page with a couple of small-scale
profiles. A nice and fairly priced book on one of the most famous
caves in West Virginia, unfortunately now closed.-Bill Mixon

He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known.--Sir Richard Burton

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
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RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

[Timothy Russey]

I had the opportunity to see Bob Zimmerman speak on the Cass cave system at the 
spring var this year, I'd recommend the book as the events surrounding the cave 
are all very interesting. There are also ongoing negotiations with the family 
that owns the property to have it reopened If I remember correctly. 


From: Mixon Bill [bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:37 PM
To: Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

The Survey of Cass Cave, Pocahontas County, West Virginia. Edited by
Robert Zimmerman, with cartography by Robert Zimmerman and Gregory S.
Springer. West Virginia Speleological Survey Monograph 4; 2011. 8.5 by
11 inches, 63 pages, softbound. $16 postpaid from 
www.wvass.org/publications.html
.

This new book on Cass is similar in format to WVASS Monograph 3 on
Cassell Cave (NSS News, November 2009). There is a history of the
cave, including two fatal accidents in notorious Suicide Falls; it is
named that after a genuine suicide in the cave years earlier. A
detailed text description of the cave and a clear chapter on geology
and speleogenesis follow. A set of twenty-three quad maps of the cave
plan is very nicely detailed, although it is, inevitably, rather
confusing where underlying passages are offset. The quads don't follow
a rigid grid, which minimizes the number of them that contain little
passage, but they don't overlap, so the important junction of Cass
Annex Cave with the Big Room is split between two sheets. The plans of
the passages do extend a quarter inch beyond the borders of the quads,
which makes it easier to follow them from page to page. There are many
cross-sections, but only one page with a couple of small-scale
profiles. A nice and fairly priced book on one of the most famous
caves in West Virginia, unfortunately now closed.—Bill Mixon

He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known.--Sir Richard Burton

You may reply to the address this message
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RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

[Geary Schindel]

Cass is an outstanding cave, my third vertical cave, and one of my favorites.  
I've spent a number of fine hours beyond the cat crawl, back in the days before 
polypro.  It would be wonderful if the NSS or one of the cave conservancies 
could purchase this cave, it is a wonderful setting near the town of Cass.

Maybe they can get it open for the NSS Convention next year.

Geary




-Original Message-
From: Timothy Russey [mailto:t...@pct.edu] 
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 12:22 PM
To: Mixon Bill; Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

I had the opportunity to see Bob Zimmerman speak on the Cass cave system at the 
spring var this year, I'd recommend the book as the events surrounding the cave 
are all very interesting. There are also ongoing negotiations with the family 
that owns the property to have it reopened If I remember correctly. 


From: Mixon Bill [bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:37 PM
To: Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Cass Cave, West Virginia

The Survey of Cass Cave, Pocahontas County, West Virginia. Edited by
Robert Zimmerman, with cartography by Robert Zimmerman and Gregory S.
Springer. West Virginia Speleological Survey Monograph 4; 2011. 8.5 by
11 inches, 63 pages, softbound. $16 postpaid from 
www.wvass.org/publications.html
.

This new book on Cass is similar in format to WVASS Monograph 3 on
Cassell Cave (NSS News, November 2009). There is a history of the
cave, including two fatal accidents in notorious Suicide Falls; it is
named that after a genuine suicide in the cave years earlier. A
detailed text description of the cave and a clear chapter on geology
and speleogenesis follow. A set of twenty-three quad maps of the cave
plan is very nicely detailed, although it is, inevitably, rather
confusing where underlying passages are offset. The quads don't follow
a rigid grid, which minimizes the number of them that contain little
passage, but they don't overlap, so the important junction of Cass
Annex Cave with the Big Room is split between two sheets. The plans of
the passages do extend a quarter inch beyond the borders of the quads,
which makes it easier to follow them from page to page. There are many
cross-sections, but only one page with a couple of small-scale
profiles. A nice and fairly priced book on one of the most famous
caves in West Virginia, unfortunately now closed.-Bill Mixon

He who renders warfare fatal to all engaged in it will be the greatest
benefactor the world has yet known.--Sir Richard Burton

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla

[Charles Goldsmith]

Bill, just my opinion on it, but I disagree on your critique.  I don't
see anything amateurish about the typesetting, let alone the layout.
Most books of this type of similar problems with the pictures, but
this just gives it a more personal touch instead of a true commercial
style book with boorish pictures.  These pictures are relative to the
overall story and since it wasn't a commercial book, they were
probably pulled from whatever sources they could find, no paid
photography at all.  It was probably edited too much, so no, it
shouldn't have been edited more.

Again, this isn't a commercial book, and I think you are being way too
hard on it.  It was a great read, I couldn't put it down and wanted
more of it.

My only complaint about it was the lack of material later on, but due
to real life issues, Bill Steele wasn't involved as much in the cave
system, but since he was only writing from his vewpoint, that couldn't
be helped.

I hope Bill Steele writes another, I have both of his books and they
are great to read.

Charles

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves. C. William
 Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
 inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.

   The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
 indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
 called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
 have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.

   That said, this is an important and valuable book. Way too few
 first-person accounts of exploration by American cavers have been
 commercially published. Sistema Huautla was the first of the deep caves in
 southern Mexico found and explored, and it is essentially tied for deepest
 cave in the Western Hemisphere. Steele was one of the principal explorers in
 the caves in the Huautla area during the late seventies and early eighties
 and as much time as he could spare from work and family since. He was on the
 trips in the spring of 1980 that made Li Nita the first thousand-meter-deep
 cave outside of Europe and then, barely a month later, connected it into
 Sótano de San Agustín to create the Huautla system. Being short-roped and
 trapped deep in San Agustín for several days in 1977 and the famous 1994
 diving expedition from the point of view of those on the surface are among
 the other tales in the book.

   This is a personal narrative of Steele's trips to Huautla, based on the
 logs he has kept of all his caving over the years. It is not meant to be a
 complete history of the project, and I probably made a mistake by leafing
 back to try to understand what was going on. (The worthless maps scattered
 throughout the book don't help.) Take it for what it is, and just sit back
 and enjoy the stories of hard caving in deep caves.--Bill Mixon
 
 Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org














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 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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Re: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla

[speleosteele]

Very nice of you Charles, thanks.

Something you might want to know about who did the typesetting is that it was 
done by very much a professional. The book's release was delayed two years 
waiting for the Cave Books volunteer, Karen Lindsley, to get around to 
typesetting and laying out the book.

Finally, I arranged for the professional book designer who does freelance work 
for the Boy Scouts of America (the new Handbook of which millions will be 
printed) to design Huautla, with Cave Books paying her half her fee, and me 
taking her family caving and climbing for the other half.

Bill
Sent via BlackBerry by ATT

-Original Message-
From: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:10:50 
To: Mixon Billbmixon...@austin.rr.com
Cc: Cavers Texastexascavers@texascavers.com; 
Speleobooksspeleobo...@speleobooks.com; Oldham Tonytonyfold...@hotmail.com; 
Steele Billspeleoste...@tx.rr.com; Watson Redrawat...@artsci.wustl.edu; 
Paul Stewartp...@juno.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla


Bill, just my opinion on it, but I disagree on your critique.  I don't
see anything amateurish about the typesetting, let alone the layout.
Most books of this type of similar problems with the pictures, but
this just gives it a more personal touch instead of a true commercial
style book with boorish pictures.  These pictures are relative to the
overall story and since it wasn't a commercial book, they were
probably pulled from whatever sources they could find, no paid
photography at all.  It was probably edited too much, so no, it
shouldn't have been edited more.

Again, this isn't a commercial book, and I think you are being way too
hard on it.  It was a great read, I couldn't put it down and wanted
more of it.

My only complaint about it was the lack of material later on, but due
to real life issues, Bill Steele wasn't involved as much in the cave
system, but since he was only writing from his vewpoint, that couldn't
be helped.

I hope Bill Steele writes another, I have both of his books and they
are great to read.

Charles

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves. C. William
 Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
 inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.

   The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
 indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
 called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
 have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.

   That said, this is an important and valuable book. Way too few
 first-person accounts of exploration by American cavers have been
 commercially published. Sistema Huautla was the first of the deep caves in
 southern Mexico found and explored, and it is essentially tied for deepest
 cave in the Western Hemisphere. Steele was one of the principal explorers in
 the caves in the Huautla area during the late seventies and early eighties
 and as much time as he could spare from work and family since. He was on the
 trips in the spring of 1980 that made Li Nita the first thousand-meter-deep
 cave outside of Europe and then, barely a month later, connected it into
 Sótano de San Agustín to create the Huautla system. Being short-roped and
 trapped deep in San Agustín for several days in 1977 and the famous 1994
 diving expedition from the point of view of those on the surface are among
 the other tales in the book.

   This is a personal narrative of Steele's trips to Huautla, based on the
 logs he has kept of all his caving over the years. It is not meant to be a
 complete history of the project, and I probably made a mistake by leafing
 back to try to understand what was going on. (The worthless maps scattered
 throughout the book don't help.) Take it for what it is, and just sit back
 and enjoy the stories of hard caving in deep caves.--Bill Mixon
 
 Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.
 
 You may reply to the address this message
 came from, but for long-term use, save:
 Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
 AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org














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 Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla

[Mark . Alman]

 
Heck, the same could be said about every issue of The TEXAS CAVER!
 
 
Mark (the you-get-what-you-pay-for TC Editor)





On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves. C. William
 Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
 inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.

   The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
 indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
 called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
 have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.

Re: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla

[Mixon Bill]

Charles (only) -- I hold books from a publisher with commercial  
pretensions to a high standard. Signs of amateurish typesetting were  
not putting the scientific name of that scorpion in italics, using the  
wrong character in things like '78 (the left curly single quote  
instead of the right curly single quote), and using a hyphen for a  
minus sign. Of course the photos were not professionally taken, but  
that's no excuse for not optimizing their color and contrast for  
printing. There is no reason why a hard caver has to know where the  
commas go, but a publisher's editor should. -- Mixon


Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.

You may reply to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org

RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla

[Fritz Holt]

Oh, you mean a great read?
Fritz
PS. When will the third quarter hard copies be mailed?


From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:43 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith; Mixon Bill
Cc: Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla


Heck, the same could be said about every issue of The TEXAS CAVER!


Mark (the you-get-what-you-pay-for TC Editor)




On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves. C. William
 Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
 inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.

   The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
 indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
 called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
 have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.

RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla

[Mark . Alman]

 
They are supposed to be shipped to me on Friday, Fritz.
 
They should be going out about a week from now.
 
If y'all ain't TSA members, you need to rectify that for this issue!
 
 
 
Thanks,
 
Mark
 
 



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Wed 9/16/2009 11:38 AM
To: Alman, Mark @ IRP; Charles Goldsmith; Mixon Bill
Cc: Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla


Oh, you mean a great read?
Fritz
PS. When will the third quarter hard copies be mailed?



From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:43 AM
To: Charles Goldsmith; Mixon Bill
Cc: Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla


 
Heck, the same could be said about every issue of The TEXAS CAVER!
 
 
Mark (the you-get-what-you-pay-for TC Editor)





On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
 Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves. C. William
 Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
 inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.

   The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
 indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
 called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
 have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.

RE: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla

[Tony Oldham]

I know it is a caving book, but the same comments applies to a mining book.  
Thank goodness Bill Mixon has not reviewed any of of my books.

Best Wishes - Tony Oldham 
34 Park Road 
Cwm Parc 
Treorchy 
CF42 6LE 
United Kingdom 

 
 From: wo...@justfamily.org
 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:10:50 -0500
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: Huautla
 To: bmixon...@austin.rr.com
 CC: texascavers@texascavers.com; speleobo...@speleobooks.com; 
 tonyfold...@hotmail.com; speleoste...@tx.rr.com; rawat...@artsci.wustl.edu; 
 p...@juno.com
 
 Bill, just my opinion on it, but I disagree on your critique. I don't
 see anything amateurish about the typesetting, let alone the layout.
 Most books of this type of similar problems with the pictures, but
 this just gives it a more personal touch instead of a true commercial
 style book with boorish pictures. These pictures are relative to the
 overall story and since it wasn't a commercial book, they were
 probably pulled from whatever sources they could find, no paid
 photography at all. It was probably edited too much, so no, it
 shouldn't have been edited more.
 
 Again, this isn't a commercial book, and I think you are being way too
 hard on it. It was a great read, I couldn't put it down and wanted
 more of it.
 
 My only complaint about it was the lack of material later on, but due
 to real life issues, Bill Steele wasn't involved as much in the cave
 system, but since he was only writing from his vewpoint, that couldn't
 be helped.
 
 I hope Bill Steele writes another, I have both of his books and they
 are great to read.
 
 Charles
 
 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote:
  Huautla: Thirty Years in One of the World's Deepest Caves. C. William
  Steele. Cave Books, Dayton, Ohio; 2009. ISBN 978-0-939748070-9. 6 by 9
  inches, 269 pages, hardbound. $24.95.
 
The typesetting is amateurish, the color and black-and-white photos were
  indifferently prepared for printing, and the cover might charitably be
  called cluttered. I can tell the text got a lot of editing, but it could
  have used a little more. Still, it reads well enough.
 
That said, this is an important and valuable book. Way too few
  first-person accounts of exploration by American cavers have been
  commercially published. Sistema Huautla was the first of the deep caves in
  southern Mexico found and explored, and it is essentially tied for deepest
  cave in the Western Hemisphere. Steele was one of the principal explorers in
  the caves in the Huautla area during the late seventies and early eighties
  and as much time as he could spare from work and family since. He was on the
  trips in the spring of 1980 that made Li Nita the first thousand-meter-deep
  cave outside of Europe and then, barely a month later, connected it into
  Sótano de San Agustín to create the Huautla system. Being short-roped and
  trapped deep in San Agustín for several days in 1977 and the famous 1994
  diving expedition from the point of view of those on the surface are among
  the other tales in the book.
 
This is a personal narrative of Steele's trips to Huautla, based on the
  logs he has kept of all his caving over the years. It is not meant to be a
  complete history of the project, and I probably made a mistake by leafing
  back to try to understand what was going on. (The worthless maps scattered
  throughout the book don't help.) Take it for what it is, and just sit back
  and enjoy the stories of hard caving in deep caves.--Bill Mixon
  
  Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again.
  
  You may reply to the address this message
  came from, but for long-term use, save:
  Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
  AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  -
  Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
 

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Use Hotmail to send and receive mail from your different email accounts.
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/167688463/direct/01/

Re: [Texascavers] book review: ICS guidebook

[Diana Tomchick]

On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Mixon Bill wrote:

 Included is cave microbiology, which seems to be a hot topic  
lately, partly, I suspect, because caves are a sexy-sounding place  
to study microbes that are no different from those elsewhere.





Bill, I love it when you make pronouncements about scientific  
research. One almost gets the feeling that you're doing it just to  
provide the scientists on this list an opportunity to indulge in a  
teaching moment. To really grasp the important differences between  
cave microbes and microbes in other environments, one needs to  
remember that the cave environment is typically nutrient-limited. An  
excellent introduction to cave microbiology for the speleologists was  
published by Hazel Barton in the Journal of Cave and Karst Research in  
2006, and can be obtained as a free PDF at the following URL:


http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V68/v68n2-Barton.pdf

Primarily due to the availability and ease of genome sequencing, the  
field of microbiology is currently undergoing a re-thinking of the  
concept of species. It is becoming apparent that there is an amazing  
variety of subspecies of even the common microbes such as  
Actinomycetes (the common soil microbe that contributes so much to the  
earthy smell of dirt, both in and outside of caves). Classifying all  
of these as individual species may not be warranted, but instead it  
may be better to think of bacterial diversity in a different way.


To get an idea of the range of microbial diversity, visit the  
MicrobeWiki:


http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/MicrobeWiki

Diana

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B   
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.   
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
214-645-6353 (fax)


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For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] book review: ICS guidebook

[germanyj]

 


Actinomycetes (the common soil microbe that contributes so much to the earthy 
smell of dirt, both in and outside of caves).

 AH-HA!? Now I may know the secret ingredient in my Cave Passages candle 
that I purchased from an ICS vendor (www.speleosoap.com).? The smell of this 
candle is EXACTLY like a cave passage!? Quite a hit at my office in League 
City.

julia


 


 

-Original Message-
From: Diana Tomchick diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
To: Mixon Bill bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
Cc: Cavers Texas texascavers@texascavers.com; Speleobooks 
speleobo...@speleobooks.com
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] book review: ICS guidebook









On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Mixon Bill wrote:?
?

  Included is cave microbiology, which seems to be a hot topic  lately, 
 partly, I suspect, because caves are a sexy-sounding place  to study 
 microbes that are no different from those elsewhere.?

?
?


Bill, I love it when you make pronouncements about scientific research. One 
almost gets the feeling that you're doing it just to provide the scientists on 
this list an opportunity to indulge in a teaching moment. To really grasp the 
important differences between cave microbes and microbes in other environments, 
one needs to remember that the cave environment is typically nutrient-limited. 
An excellent introduction to cave microbiology for the speleologists was 
published by Hazel Barton in the Journal of Cave and Karst Research in 2006, 
and can be obtained as a free PDF at the following URL:?
?

http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V68/v68n2-Barton.pdf?
?

Primarily due to the availability and ease of genome sequencing, the field of 
microbiology is currently undergoing a re-thinking of the concept of species. 
It is becoming apparent that there is an amazing variety of subspecies of even 
the common microbes such as Actinomycetes (the common soil microbe that 
contributes so much to the earthy smell of dirt, both in and outside of caves). 
Classifying all of these as individual species may not be warranted, but 
instead it may be better to think of bacterial diversity in a different way.?
?

To get an idea of the range of microbial diversity, visit the MicrobeWiki:?
?

http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/MicrobeWiki?
?

Diana?
?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *?

Diana R. Tomchick?

Associate Professor?

University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center?

Department of Biochemistry?

5323 Harry Hines Blvd.?

Rm. ND10.214B  Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.  Email: 
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu?

214-645-6383 (phone)?

214-645-6353 (fax)?
?


-?

Visit our website: http://texascavers.com?

To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com?

For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com?
?



 

RE: [Texascavers] book review: Caves of Knoxville

[Louise Power]

Bill,
 
You said: Why does the NSS keep publishing books that nobody has ever read?
 
As a proofreader/editor/writer myself, I think the question should be, why do 
authors think they can publish a book without a proofreader and an editor? My 
experience is that I am my own worst proofreader.
 
Louise From: bmixon...@austin.rr.com To: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: 
Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:11:50 -0600 CC: nss6...@bellsount.net; dwhug...@aol.com; 
tom@hughes.net Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Caves of Knoxville  
Caves of Knoxville and the Great Smoky Mountains. Larry E. Matthews.  
National Speleological Society, Huntsville, Alabama; 2008. ISBN  
978-1-879961-30-2. 8.5 by 11 inches, 295 pages, softbound. $24 (NSS  life 
members $20, other NSS members $22).  This in another book by 
speleo-historian Larry Matthews, similar to  his 2007 Caves of Chattanooga, 
although considerably longer. It  contains detailed histories and descriptions 
of eight show caves in  the area, as well as five more caves that were open to 
the public at  one time and one popular rock shelter in the national park. 
There are  over three hundred illustrations, including modern and historic  
photographs, cave maps, and reproductions of old postcards and  brochures. 
Much of the text is quoted from earlier sources. Like the  earlier book, this 
one was written with an eye toward sales to the  public at the show caves, so 
don't expect a critical review. For  example, the blatantly phony publicity 
photo of the lake in Lost Sea  (aka Craighead Caverns) that Roy Davis once 
prepared by combining  several shots of one boat, a photo of the cave ceiling, 
and a photo of  the surface of Lake Cumberland is reproduced in figure 10.18 
without  comment. Nevertheless, there is a lot of good information here for  
those interested in the histories of show caves.  The illustrations are well 
reproduced, but the typography is often  awkward. The text contains some 
redundancies. For example, a sentence  near the bottom of the first column on 
the first page of the first  chapter reads, Crudgington bought 800 acres of 
farmland, including  the entrance to the cave, in 1866. Two sentences later: 
The first  owner of the cave was Robert Crudgington, who purchased 800 acres 
of  land, including the cave, in 1866. Why does the NSS keep publishing  
books that nobody has ever read?--Bill Mixon  (There is another review of 
this book, by Dave Hughes, in the October  NSS News. My review has not been 
submitted to anyone for  publication; feel free to reproduce wherever.) 
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RE: [Texascavers] book review: Alabama saltpeter caves

[Fritz Holt]

Bill,
It is my understanding that Frio Bat Cave near Concan (and possibly other Texas 
caves) was used for this purpose during the War Between the States. I have been 
there numerous times but did not notice (remember) any early graffiti.
Fritz

-Original Message-
From: Mixon Bill [mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:49 AM
To: Cavers Texas; Oldham Tony; Speleobooks
Subject: [Texascavers] book review: Alabama saltpeter caves

Confederate Nitre Bureau Operations in Alabama. Marion O. Smith.
Published by the author; 2007. 8.5 by 11 inches, 123 pages, soft
bound. $17 postpaid from the author at 2023 Bone Cave Road, Rock
Island, Tennessee 38581.

Marion Smith is one of the people who really appreciates all the old
graffiti left in caves during the Civil War. He has published many
papers in places like the Journal of Spelean History based on his
research into the people behind the names. This book is the result of
years of research. Most of the official records of the Confederate
Nitre Bureau did not survive the end of the war, so a wide net had to
be cast for information. The foreword mentions something about
searching eleven hundred rolls of microfilm.

During the war, the South needed saltpeter, the main ingredient of
gunpowder. With its ports blockaded, imports were scant. Caves were a
major source of saltpeter, which was made by converting calcium
nitrate leached from cave dirt into potassium nitrate by mixing wood
ashes into the solution. The result was boiled to precipitate the
saltpeter, which was shipped to power mills. This book tells what is
known about the saltpeter caves of Alabama, including famous Sauta
Cave. It also discusses the program of constructing surface nitre
beds, which were essentially dumps of garbage and manure, watered by
urine and assorted other unpleasant liquids, and protected by large
shed roofs from unwanted leaching by rainwater. Several large
operations of this kind were begun in Alabama, but making nitrate this
way is a slow process, and they yielded nothing before the war was lost.

The printing of almost all the illustrations is dreadful, and a caver
would have appreciated maps of the caves. The book concludes with
hundreds of references and notes and a nicely done index. The text is
as readable and well organized as could be expected, considering that
is consists, inevitably, mainly of a recitation of such miscellaneous
information as could be found. I actually read it right through, to
the surprise of the author.--Bill Mixon
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Re: [Texascavers] Book review: Raising the Dead: A True Story of Death and Survival (cave diving)

[quinta]

I posted this on my bookcrossing.com forum for books you are in search of. I 
would like to read it also. If I can get a copy sent to me I will share it when 
I have read it. If someone has it they will more than likely share it, 
Quinta