[tw5] Re: Small Problem with Reveal widget

[TonyM]

Thanks heaps Eric,

No matter how many times I looked. After repeating the problem by copying 
slabs of code.

Whew I m not going mad

Tony

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 2:53:28 PM UTC+10, Eric Shulman wrote:
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:49:00 PM UTC-7, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> I have a set of reveal widgets and there related state tiddlers - like 
>> this
>> <$reveal type="match" state=<> 
>> text="yes">
>> ''First in First Out - Queue''
>> 
>> 
>>
>
> I think you have a simple syntax error it's easy to miss:
>
> There are single ">" on macro calls, when they should be ">>"
>
> -e
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Small Problem with Reveal widget

[Eric Shulman]

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:49:00 PM UTC-7, TonyM wrote:
>
> I have a set of reveal widgets and there related state tiddlers - like this
> <$reveal type="match" state=<> text="yes">
> ''First in First Out - Queue''
> 
> 
>

I think you have a simple syntax error it's easy to miss:

There are single ">" on macro calls, when they should be ">>"

-e



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[tw5] Re: Small Problem with Reveal widget

[TonyM]

Sorry,

I also wanted to add I am getting a stray "text="yes">" appearing on screen 
between each simultaneously reveald sections.

Regards
Tony

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[tw5] Small Problem with Reveal widget

[TonyM]

Folks

I have a set of reveal widgets and there related state tiddlers - like this

<$reveal type="match" state=<> 
text="yes">
  ''Custom Order''
  Will call a macro to view this? eg disposition aware

<$reveal type="match" state=<> text="yes">
''First in First Out - Queue''



<$reveal type="match" state=<> text="yes">
''Most Recently Edited - MRU''



<$reveal type="match" state=<> text="yes">
''First in Last Out - (Stack)''




However when state=<> text="yes"> the 
second reveal occurs as do the rest.

and as a result if the others "states" are yes they do not display.

Is the some unknown "Feature" or "Bug" causing this?

Thank in Advance
Tony 

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[tw5] Re: How do I export/concatenate en masse Tidddlers to MS Word?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Oh, I always forget about the three curly bracket approach -- "<$list>" is 
my go-to tool. But if you really want to do it that way then you could make 
a tiddler like:

{{{ [tag[HelloThere]]||SeparatorTemplate}}}

with another tidder "SeparatorTemplate" with contents:

<$transclude/>

-


-- Mark


On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 6:32:24 PM UTC-7, David Lewis wrote:
>
> Thanks!  Looking up that stuff makes a nice mini-tutorial. I take it that 
> adding the separators makes it trickier. Otherwise I could just use this 
> for unadorned transclusion...
>
> {{{ [tag[mechanism]] }}}
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:41:19 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Try perhaps (with your tag) :
>>
>> <$list filter="[tag[HelloThere]]">
>> <>
>>
>> <$transclude mode="block"/>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>> 
>>
>> Keep in mind that any additional objects, like images, will have to be 
>> exported manually. External links (especially absolute ones) may not work 
>> when the platform is changed.
>>
>> Good luck!
>> -- Mark
>>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 6:46:56 AM UTC-7, David Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks. Sounds like the secret I was missing was to create a single 
>>> tiddler, not a bunch of tiddlers.
>>>
>>> If you don't mind -- as a small tutorial, could you explain or show how 
>>> to create that single tiddler, say for the tag "science", or better yet, 
>>> the tag query, "science" OR "time", with a separator of "::" 
>>> between concatenated retrieved tiddlers. I'll worry about export later.
>>>
>>> Thanks. --David
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:18:43 AM UTC-4, TonyM wrote:

 A Shorthand answer,

 Just ask for more details. 

 If you create a single tiddler, that displays what you want to appear 
 in your document, perhaps using a list of tiddlers with a given tag, 
 sorted 
 by an appropriate field or using drag and drop to set the order, you can 
 then print the tiddler to PDF and open that in Word will be a quick answer.
  
 Some export as HTML and do other tricks see a recent discussion on 
 this here 
 

 Regards
 Tony

 On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:06:16 PM UTC+10, David Lewis wrote:
>
> I'm evaluating TW as a medium for taking research notes -- text, links 
> -- and then using them in the writing process. How would I accomplish the 
> following task:
>
>- Choose a set of tiddlers based on a tag or logical combination  
>of tags, plus manual deletions
>- Export them all *en masse* into a MS Word document, 
>concatenated, with some kind of separator between them
>
> I'm still working through learning how to use TW, and I can't see an 
> obvious way to do this without copy/pasting each target tiddler 
> individually, which would be a big nuisance. It would be OK to export to 
> concatenated text and then manually transfer to Word.
>
>
> Thanks!
>


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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[TonyM]

Mark,

I understand the desire not to document the apparently unachivable, setting 
up a PouchDB but people have done this (although Difficult) never the less 
my definition stands. CouchDB is a *Tiddler (not wiki) Server,* Even 
PouchDB needs to be though of as a Local *Tiddler Server* because it can 
explain how the underlying tiddlywki may not have new content in it that is 
held in the CouchDB.

*Please note I have used my words very carefully*.

If as you say The complication of it as a local browser saver is that it 
needs to connect to the github starting page at least once then the 
internet is a setup dependency nothing more (Unless it is needed every 
time), all it requires is a special note. In part because we have not yet 
defined if internet access is required or it is operated "offline".  A 
column indicating "can be used offline" could have the values Yes, No, 
Conditional, and with local/remote server access or something like that.

Perhaps an ease of setup column should be used to show pouchDB is 
difficult, although those with the IBM database version can currently do it 
with less complexity than setting up their own.

The thing is we must be careful not to paint a false picture or depart from 
a careful use of words because even novices may detect inconsistencies and 
find it hard to understand or believe the list. This is the reason I have 
suggested this treatment of NoteSelf because 

   1. It varies form other solutions
   2. Includes unfamiliar technology to most,
   3. We can expect more cases of databases that serve tiddlers.
   In which case more items will have similar specifications.


Best Wishes
Tony


On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 11:13:59 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Hi Mat,
>
> NoteSelf fits into two categories. One as a (remote) Service and one as a 
> (local browser) Saver. The complication of it as a local browser saver is 
> that it needs to connect to the github starting page at least once.  So 
> it's not 100% offline. That is, if someone needed to set it up inside a 
> sealed room cut off from the rest of the world they would currently be out 
> of luck. 
>
> As a setup, it is not a Server because no one has demonstrated how to set 
> up Pouch as a server, and then how to configure TW to use it. This is 
> apparently not a trivial task. If the idea is to direct people towards 
> real, implemented solutions, then SN as a Server is not there yet
>
> -- Mark
>
>
> On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 10:35:02 AM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>>
>> So, you want your TW to...
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: How do I export/concatenate en masse Tidddlers to MS Word?

[David Lewis]

Thanks!  Looking up that stuff makes a nice mini-tutorial. I take it that 
adding the separators makes it trickier. Otherwise I could just use this 
for unadorned transclusion...

{{{ [tag[mechanism]] }}}



On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:41:19 AM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Try perhaps (with your tag) :
>
> <$list filter="[tag[HelloThere]]">
> <>
>
> <$transclude mode="block"/>
>
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
>
> Keep in mind that any additional objects, like images, will have to be 
> exported manually. External links (especially absolute ones) may not work 
> when the platform is changed.
>
> Good luck!
> -- Mark
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 6:46:56 AM UTC-7, David Lewis wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. Sounds like the secret I was missing was to create a single 
>> tiddler, not a bunch of tiddlers.
>>
>> If you don't mind -- as a small tutorial, could you explain or show how 
>> to create that single tiddler, say for the tag "science", or better yet, 
>> the tag query, "science" OR "time", with a separator of "::" 
>> between concatenated retrieved tiddlers. I'll worry about export later.
>>
>> Thanks. --David
>>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:18:43 AM UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> A Shorthand answer,
>>>
>>> Just ask for more details. 
>>>
>>> If you create a single tiddler, that displays what you want to appear in 
>>> your document, perhaps using a list of tiddlers with a given tag, sorted by 
>>> an appropriate field or using drag and drop to set the order, you can then 
>>> print the tiddler to PDF and open that in Word will be a quick answer.
>>>  
>>> Some export as HTML and do other tricks see a recent discussion on this 
>>> here 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:06:16 PM UTC+10, David Lewis wrote:

 I'm evaluating TW as a medium for taking research notes -- text, links 
 -- and then using them in the writing process. How would I accomplish the 
 following task:

- Choose a set of tiddlers based on a tag or logical combination  
of tags, plus manual deletions
- Export them all *en masse* into a MS Word document, concatenated, 
with some kind of separator between them

 I'm still working through learning how to use TW, and I can't see an 
 obvious way to do this without copy/pasting each target tiddler 
 individually, which would be a big nuisance. It would be OK to export to 
 concatenated text and then manually transfer to Word.


 Thanks!

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Hi Mat,

NoteSelf fits into two categories. One as a (remote) Service and one as a 
(local browser) Saver. The complication of it as a local browser saver is 
that it needs to connect to the github starting page at least once.  So 
it's not 100% offline. That is, if someone needed to set it up inside a 
sealed room cut off from the rest of the world they would currently be out 
of luck. 

As a setup, it is not a Server because no one has demonstrated how to set 
up Pouch as a server, and then how to configure TW to use it. This is 
apparently not a trivial task. If the idea is to direct people towards 
real, implemented solutions, then SN as a Server is not there yet

-- Mark


On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 10:35:02 AM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>
> So, you want your TW to...
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[TonyM]

Mat,

There has being "a lot of water under the bridge", in this conversation and 
it is now a little hard to identify the current state of play. I always 
intended to contribute but have being very busy, Can I suggest a few 
points, some random some systematic and you can see how they fit into the 
the final result?

TiddlyDesktop Claims it can serve on the network although I have not seen 
the settings or instructions yet. It servers single Files, Node JS and 
Provides a browser (NW?). and has the index wiki.
If in fact all these advertised features are available in TidlyDesktop and 
it helps us identify the components we need to address in your wonderful 
table.

I have raised this previously but all tiddlywikis use a browser, be it one 
of the common ones, or one built into the solution like TiddlyDesktop, 
"AndTWiki"

*Here is a brain dump of what I know about all the different alternatives, 
and the rules arising, I have studied.*


   1. All tiddlywikis use a browser, be it one of the common ones, or one 
   built into the solution
   2. In a browser there are two ways to access a tiddlywiki be it an 
   http:// address or a file:// address
   3. If they(wikis) are accessed at a http address there is a server 
   somewhere, servers "replace the* need* for a file saver", but you can 
   still save as a file.
   4. If they(wikis) are accessed at a file:// address there needs to be a 
   "file saver in the browser" or a tiddler Database *but only if the 
   default download mechanism is undesirable (it often is)*
   5. TiddlyDesktop comes with its own browser AND can serve files AND 
   provide a filesaver to TiddlyWikis opened in it.
   6. All ? Servers can serve on the local only address, or on the network 
   using the physical servers IP Address (which allows other devices on the 
   network to access the server, and any wikis it hosts)
   7. Some servers can serve folder based wikis and others can also serve 
   single file wikis
   8. All ? TiddlyWikis can save file or folder wikis as file based wikis
   9. All ? TiddlyWikis (including served folder base wikis) can Import 
   tiddlers from file wikis or intermediate bundles of tiddlers (eg JSON files)
   10. *Most *servers are based on NodeJS installed or packaged in the 
   server implimentation
   11. NoteSelf is not a Server, but it can use CouchDB and Pouch DB to 
   Server tiddlers, a wonderful feature is the CounchDB (I think of as being 
   in my loungeroom) is inside your browser session but only serves tiddlers 
   to that browser session so it emulates a file saver (but it does not update 
   the original tiddlywikifile or HTML hosted "file")
   12. NoteSelf allows you to "Host" tiddlywikis as plane HTML files 
   anywhere with updates to that html file saved in CounchDB or PouchDB, Since 
   PouchDB is outside the browser you can access the tiddlers it serves by 
   logging in with a NoteSelf File tiddlywiki, or HTML hosted tiddlywiki. In 
   this case we have two tiddler based database servers on local (browser 
   session only) "CoundDB and a Remote tiddler based database server (pouchDB)
   

There seems to be a clear distinction between File based wikis and Folder 
Based Wikis (typical hosted in NodeJS but I expect an increase in Databases 
of Tiddlers "database hosted wikis" as with PouchDB. I would like to see 
one based on MySQL as an example.

File based wikis 
Folder Based Wikis
Database hosted wikis
- Database Inbrowser
- External database (Local or remote)

Regardless of the above how do you access your database?
Within a provided Browser (addressing handled internally)
At a File:// Address
At an http:// address
  Local 
  Remote

For Example (the difficult cases?)
*Bob* is a server, has an "index wiki", Serves Folder based wikis, not file 
based wikis, does not have its own Browser, removes the need for a saver, 
can send Operating Systems Messages to the Physical server it is installed 
on, can be accesses localy and remotely, and can cope with multiple access 
to the same wiki.
*TiddlyServer* is a server, has an "index (but no index Wiki)", Serves File 
and Folder based wikis, does not have its own Browser, removes the need for 
a saver, , can be accesses localy and remotely, however multiple access to 
the same wiki could result in "contention".

A final note:
File based wikis can typically be *opened in any browser, and be saved with 
any browser* (this is often forgotten), However FileBased wikis require a 
file saver to *bypass the default Download method*, usually one for the 
given browser in which it is running, Since browser security has increased 
there are limitations to how file savers can operate (eg; Under the 
browsers download folder, though not always true)

Depending on the server, File and Folder based wikis that are served can be 
accessed via a local or remote IP address and since the server handles the 
save mechanism no file save is required meaning "Served" wikis can be 
accessed with virtually any 

[tw5] Re: TW in Public -- "Tomb Of Horrors" (#gaming #campaingn)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Joshua

I think there is quite a large user-base for gaming in TW. I'm interested 
in trying to foster more of a resource base, Especially through examples of 
good RPG campaign plans, which TW is brilliant for. It's coming slowly.

Best wishes
Josiah

On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 00:56:22 UTC+2, Joshua Fontany wrote:
>
> Wow, very cool!
> I'm glad to see others in the RPG community using TiddlyWiki! 
>
> This makes me want to go back to my "Character Sheet/ Campaign" plugin and 
> keep working at a release candidate...
>
> Thanks for passing this along!
>
> Best,
> Joshua F
>
> On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 3:27:01 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>> A TW from a DesignWriteStudio student ...
>>
>> Tomb Of Horrors ... http://tombofhorrors.tiddlyspot.com/ 
>>
>> If you want to comment go here: 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/designwrite/VAI9zoJOCg4
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat wrote:
>
> ... IMO it would be fair to put "Yes" for a service like TiddlySpot on 
> this because you can still use it without fuzz from e.g a USB-stick.
>

That is not portability. That is cloudability.

A portable application is one (a program, not a site) that (1) makes no 
registry entries and creates no files outside its own directories; (2) uses 
relative addressing such that you can move its install folder between disks 
and it will work exactly the same. 

Bob is portable. TiddlyDesktop isn't.

Josiah

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[tw5] Re: TW in Public -- "Tomb Of Horrors" (#gaming #campaingn)

[Joshua Fontany]

Wow, very cool!
I'm glad to see others in the RPG community using TiddlyWiki! 

This makes me want to go back to my "Character Sheet/ Campaign" plugin and 
keep working at a release candidate...

Thanks for passing this along!

Best,
Joshua F

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 3:27:01 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> A TW from a DesignWriteStudio student ...
>
> Tomb Of Horrors ... http://tombofhorrors.tiddlyspot.com/ 
>
> If you want to comment go here: 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/designwrite/VAI9zoJOCg4
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>  
>
>> NoteSelf
>>
>  Storage: In-browser database AND (optional) synced external database 
> (either local or in cloud). 


For storage, I previously added "Server-location In-browser", is that fair?
 

> Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
> device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
> Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".
>

So... why not Yes then?

 

> Variants: It also comes in a Android App form (Beta).  
>

Does this have the same criteria as the main NoteSelf? (Other than OS, 
presumably) 


<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

Lost Admin wrote:
 

> The biggest weakness I see is the set-up. It probably took me about 16 
> hours of effort (over about 3 weeks) to do my first functional setup of 
> CouchDB. But, I was doing that by digging through the CouchDB documentation 
> and various tutorials on how to setup CouchDB (there wasn't anything 
> specific for NoteSelf at the time (I'm fixing that). My most recent set-up 
> took under an hour.
>

 Instructions are as critical as the software side and I hope I can link to 
instructions from the SetUp site. Please inform me when you've "fixed" it 
;-)

<:-) 

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

Lost Admin wrote:
>
> I'm with Jed on the portability part. Perhaps "works offline" instead? 
> Even that is somewhat dependent on the details (I run a webdav server on my 
> laptop, so it works fine when I'm offline).
>

Already got "works offline" as a criteria. 


There are also issue with "dependencies" as the list I provided is a very 
> small sub-set of WebDAV server options that I believe should work fine for 
> TiddlyWiki. At the same time, taking away the dependencies column is 
> probably a bad idea because for many that would be a deciding factor.
>

Please note that "the WebDAV server options" are probably limitless, just 
like most servers. I'm therefore limiting the SetUp site to only show 
things that are specfically designed for TW - OR with instructions that 
some kind tiddlywikian has detailed so that one can design a system that 
makes TW work properly.
 

Mat has really taken on a hard project.
>

In my view, the question of how to set-up a TW system belongs to everyone 
so I've merely brought it up on the table for us to mould. As we're doing 
right now :-)


<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Lost Admin]

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 3:25:43 PM UTC-4, Mat wrote:
>
> Lost Admin - thank you for your information! Some questions:
>
> *WebDAV*
>>
>> *...* 
>>
> *OS* : Any (Apache) or windows (IIS)
>>
>
> What does this mean - what's the difference? 
> I'm limiting the SetUp matrix to include set-ups custom made for TW - OR - 
> instructions(!) on how to adapt some other "system" to TW. When it comes to 
> WebDAV, I see @PMario has kindly made instructions for IIS 
> . From that tiddler I 
> don't understand if there are other options for someone who is not very 
> tech savvy. is there?
>

The Apache HTTPD server can be installed on pretty much any OS (it is 
available on most UNIX and UNIX like OSes, including Linux) but also 
available for OSX (Apple) and Windows. I'm working on instructions for 
setting it up on FreeBSD (UNIX-like), Debian Linux, and Windows. I already 
made basic setup instructions on this forum (now buried and probably lost).

@PMario made his instructions, which I followed to set-up IIS. So really 
you can run a webdav server on pretty much any OS with the Apache HTTPD 
server and on windows specifically you can also run webdav with IIS.

To make this even more complicated, there is an entire webdav server 
written in PHP (called sabre/dav). I haven't tested this but it is pretty 
popular. PHP runs on pretty much any OS, so it should work pretty much any 
OS. PHP is an interpreted language (like Python or Perl) and needs server 
software that supports it. Since Apache (and Nginx, and IIS) support PHP, 
you can pretty much run Sabre/dav on anything.

If you are only going with "that we have instructions for", you still have 
a bit of a dilema as there is absolutely nothing special about the setup of 
WebDAV for Tiddlywiki (you just need a properly set-up WebDAV server). So 
instructions (not unique to TiddlyWiki) are out there. But if you want 
specific to TiddlyWiki anyway, then IIS for now (and Apache if you can find 
my old instructions or wait until I finish the new ones with better 
screenshots).

Web servers are complicated. There will probably never be instructions for 
the "not very tech savvy". But there will (hopefully) be step-by-step 
instructions for the brave and soon-to-be-tech-savvy.
 

>  
>
>> *Portable* : No (or maybe with Apache portableapps)
>>
>
> To qualify as portable it should exist as a self-contained solution by 
> itself.
>  
> (Should I change the category "portable" to instead be "self-contained"?)
>

Honestly, I think this is always going to be debatable. The intent you have 
is subtle and simple terms are going to have broader meaning to different 
people. 
 

>
>
> *PHP (store.php)*
>>
>
> I've renamed the set-up to now be as you phrase it here, yes? 
>
> *Dependencies* : Web server & PHP (confirmed on Apache 2.4 with php 5.6)
>>
>
> I have classed "PHP", or "PHP (store.php), as a server... but "a server" 
> is rather the requirement for this (right?).
>
Yes, that works. 

>  
>
> *NoteSelf*
>>
>> *format* : json
>>
>
> Hm, that woudl be the "code-format", for tiddlers right, not NoteSelf per 
> se? By "format" I tried to find a label for: 
>
> How is the set-up solution manifested?
>> What format is this piece of software in? This
>> might affect how complicated it is to install/set it up.
>> *Option values, predefined*
>> - html-file
>> - .tid-files
>> - TW-plugin
>> - Browsr_add-on
>> - Browser-in-itself
>> - App
>
>
> I would guess NoteSelf is an "App" in this sense, i.e a separate software.
> Would you say my lable "format" is poorly chosen? Any better suggestion? 
> Looking at my list above, I'm wondering if ".tid-files" really is 
> relevant? 
>
> ...and maybe I *should *include json, i.e use file-format of tiddlers as 
> a criteria? This may be important if one wants some kind of API 
> integration, right?
>

I'm not 100% sure how you want to express this. NoteSelf is a touch more 
complicated than TiddlyWiki in in it's most basic form and yet is also (at 
it's core) only a couple of plug-ins to TiddlyWiki. So ... format, the log 
explanation:

NoteSelf the very first time you load it, is an HTML file. It is TiddlyWiki 
with some plugins.

One of those plugins takes each Tiddler and converts it to JSON (an 
in-memory data structure) and stores it in browser storage. The format of 
the browser storage varries depending on the browser used but is basically 
still JSON. This is PouchDB

So, in the above sense you now have a multi-file stand-alone tiddlywiki. 
One file is HTML, the other is in whatever format your browser uses for 
local storage. Firefox, for example, uses sqlite files as the on-disk 
format (but each tiddler is saved as json within sqlite records).

Now, things get really confusing. We add in CouchDB. The plug-ins that make 
NoteSelf include support to sync what is in browser storage to a database 
server (specifically one running CouchDB). Internally CouchDB uses  the 
JSON data structure a

[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

Jed Carty wrote:
>
> I think that trying to define these as exclusive categories is a problem 
> because almost none of the options fit into just one. Almost all of the 
> servers can save wikis but because of the scary name people may avoid 
> something because it says it is a server instead of a saver when it is both.
>

The key question is what brings light to the user. I hope the categories 
will answer his question "I want something that can X. I'll see what 
set-ups fulfill this!" and perhaps also "I know very little about what I 
want so I need to know what I should consider when setting up a TW system" 

One problem with the portability part is that the list is referring to if 
> the installation is portable, not if the usable part is portable. I am not 
> tied to any specific device to use TiddlySpot but it isn't portable in the 
> sense used by the table.
>

Yeah. Maybe "self-contained" is a better angle? Or perhaps that interferes 
with "dependencies"? Maybe the criteria should be "USB-stick'able"? or, 
"e-mail'able"? IMO it would be fair to put "Yes" for a service like 
TiddlySpot on this because you can still use it without fuzz from e.g a 
USB-stick.

<:-)



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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Hi Mat,

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 12:40:10 PM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>
> For storage, I previously added "Server-location In-browser", is that fair?
>  
>
>> Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
>> device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
>> Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".
>>
>
> So... why not Yes then?
>
>
>
IMO ...

 It's not portable in the sense you originally defined. ANY server based 
solution would be portable in the first sense that TT uses. I would mark it 
"no".

-- Mark

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Re: [tw5] Re: Problems when editing from tablet

[BurningTreeC]

>
> I've updated to the last version and it is still happening.
>
 
Did you reinstall the codemirror plugin, too?

Is the issue the same when you try typing fast 
on https://tiddlywiki.com/plugins/tiddlywiki/codemirror/?

I tried it on my Android phone, too and couldn't reproduce this problem

Which setting do you meant?
>

It's the "inputStyle" setting in the codemirror config. I've set that 
explicitly to "textarea" so that on mobile browsers it doesn't create a 
"contenteditable" area which was reported to behave strange


> --
> Sebastián
>
> On 27 May 2018 at 22:42, BurningTreeC  > wrote:
>
>> Hi Sebastián ,
>> that's probably related to the CodeMirror editor you're using
>> CodeMirror was updated with version 5.1.16 but it's recommended to use 
>> the newest, version 5.1.17 because of a bug in 5.1.16
>> In the latest CodeMirror I believe I've added a setting that avoids this 
>> issue.
>> You can try it out by navigating to 
>> https://tiddlywiki.com/plugins/tiddlywiki/codemirror/ from your phone or 
>> tablet
>>
>> hope that helps
>> BTC
>>
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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat wrote:
>
> So, what reusable labels would you put on the things Bob does? Like what 
> you allude to, I'm interested in finding labels that bring value to users.* 
> They should be able to say "I want X. Which ones have that?"*
>

Bob is radical. It will run wikis. It will save wikis. So far, so normal. 
But its greatest unique feature is AUTOMATION.

With Bob you can run "scripts" that interface with the OS. What this means 
is you can control virtually anything on the computer from Bob. For 
instance, I use Bob already to (1) save TW tid sets to single TW; (2) 
launch Windows programs; (3) run external programs that gather data for Bob 
Wikis. Its been easy.

Bob is a good example of "What is the Added Value of this?" Bob's is 
"Automation", without doubt. Its unique.

TiddlyDesktop's Added Value is: Smart visuality, great menus, sense its a 
"FULL PROGRAM". Excellent for users who need something that just runs like 
a normal desktop program. 

These Added Value aspects I suspect are quite important on choice.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat wrote:
>
> @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> NoteSelf
>>>
>>  Storage: In-browser database AND (optional) synced external database 
>> (either local or in cloud). 
>
>
> For storage, I previously added "Server-location In-browser", is that fair?
>

Not exactly. But close enough. Basically the wiki is stored in the browser 
in a database. "Browser database" and "Synced external database" are a bit 
closer though.
 

> Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
>> device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
>> Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".
>>
>
> So... why not Yes then?
>

Depends if by "portable" you mean an application, an actual program. I 
eventually wrote N/A because I think its actually at a different level than 
a "program". Its not so much about portable APPLICATIONS as CLOUD 
COMPUTING. 

Its a tricky one. 

Josiah

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

Lost Admin - thank you for your information! Some questions:

*WebDAV*
>
> *...* 
>
*OS* : Any (Apache) or windows (IIS)
>

What does this mean - what's the difference? 
I'm limiting the SetUp matrix to include set-ups custom made for TW - OR - 
instructions(!) on how to adapt some other "system" to TW. When it comes to 
WebDAV, I see @PMario has kindly made instructions for IIS 
. From that tiddler I don't 
understand if there are other options for someone who is not very tech 
savvy. is there?
 

> *Portable* : No (or maybe with Apache portableapps)
>

To qualify as portable it should exist as a self-contained solution by 
itself.
 
(Should I change the category "portable" to instead be "self-contained"?)


*PHP (store.php)*
>

I've renamed the set-up to now be as you phrase it here, yes? 

*Dependencies* : Web server & PHP (confirmed on Apache 2.4 with php 5.6)
>

I have classed "PHP", or "PHP (store.php), as a server... but "a server" is 
rather the requirement for this (right?).
 

*NoteSelf*
>
> *format* : json
>

Hm, that woudl be the "code-format", for tiddlers right, not NoteSelf per 
se? By "format" I tried to find a label for: 

How is the set-up solution manifested?
> What format is this piece of software in? This
> might affect how complicated it is to install/set it up.
> *Option values, predefined*
> - html-file
> - .tid-files
> - TW-plugin
> - Browsr_add-on
> - Browser-in-itself
> - App


I would guess NoteSelf is an "App" in this sense, i.e a separate software.
Would you say my lable "format" is poorly chosen? Any better suggestion? 
Looking at my list above, I'm wondering if ".tid-files" really is relevant? 

...and maybe I *should *include json, i.e use file-format of tiddlers as a 
criteria? This may be important if one wants some kind of API integration, 
right?

 <:-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:01:47 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> *Portable* : no (I'm open to being corrected but I didn't find a 
> portableapps option)
>
> Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
> device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
> Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".
>
>
>
It's not portable in the sense that Mat's defined it here nor in the sense 
that someone's created an actual "setup" to do that. If you start moving 
into hypotheticals, rather than actuals,  the list would be endless.

-- Mark

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

One big difference is, that with a server you could browse from another 
browser on the same network (even if it is inadvisable in some cases). 

You might consider the given categories to be arbitrary, but that's 
probably essential in order to assert some order on the phalanx of options.

-- Mark

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 10:47:58 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Mark S.
>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when you run Bob you *must* 
>> view it in a browser. 
>>
>
> Right you MUST.
>
> But its a bit of non-sequiter in the end. ALL methods require a browser to 
> see render. Some have it built in. TD uses the Chrome engine. 
>
> I guess if you put TD on a machine that didn't have a browser it would be 
> exciting just for that.
>
> What excites me about TD & Bob is what they ADD functionally. TD Backstage 
> is not much explored but exciting. Bob's Automation is special. The fact 
> they both need one form of Browser of another seems secondary?
>
> Not that I have answers. It seems molto difficile to "typify" TW in a way 
> that could form a "selling point."
>

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Re: [tw5] TW in Public -- Karl Arao's TWClassic

[Karl Arao]

yup still using it since 2008!

I moved it from tiddlyspot to git pages
https://karlarao.github.io/karlaraowiki/index.html and URL redirect from
karlarao.wiki









On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 1:10 PM, @TiddlyTweeter 
wrote:

> https://karlarao.github.io/karlaraowiki/index.html#%5B%
> 5BData%20Engineering%5D%5D
>
> An older TW still being added to years later.
>
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>



-- 
Karl Arao
Wiki: karlarao.wiki
Twitter: @karlarao 

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Lost Admin]

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 2:17:05 PM UTC-4, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> I agree. I think its "N/A" on "Portability". 
>
> However, with deference to Mat, still the point remains that NoteSelf is 
> an interesting option for users who want a solution that works over many 
> different types of devices from one source (a synched cloud based database).
>
> On Monday, 28 May 2018 20:05:14 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:01:47 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> *Portable* : no (I'm open to being corrected but I didn't find a 
>>> portableapps option)
>>>
>>> Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
>>> device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
>>> Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> It's not portable in the sense that Mat's defined it here nor in the 
>> sense that someone's created an actual "setup" to do that. If you start 
>> moving into hypotheticals, rather than actuals,  the list would be endless.
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>
The strength I find in NoteSelf is that on large TiddlyWiki files it loads 
and saves a lot faster (as only changes and tiddlers actually being 
displayed are synced to the server).

The biggest weakness I see is the set-up. It probably took me about 16 
hours of effort (over about 3 weeks) to do my first functional setup of 
CouchDB. But, I was doing that by digging through the CouchDB documentation 
and various tutorials on how to setup CouchDB (there wasn't anything 
specific for NoteSelf at the time (I'm fixing that). My most recent set-up 
took under an hour.
 

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> [TiddlyDesktop] both "single files" and "folders." In "folder mode" its 
> running an internal server. But do we need to know that? What does it add 
> knowing that in case of TD?
>

But that would be the point to not classify it as a "Server" but only as a 
"Manager". 
 

> [...] do I really need to know Bob is a server? Not that I shouldn't, but 
> what does that knowledge add to practical function? My interest in Bob is 
> what it does, not how its constituted. [...]
>

So, what reusable labels would you put on the things Bob does? Like what 
you allude to, I'm interested in finding labels that bring value to users.* 
They should be able to say "I want X. Which ones have that?"*

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S.

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when you run Bob you *must* 
> view it in a browser. 
>

Right you MUST.

But its a bit of non-sequiter in the end. ALL methods require a browser to 
see render. Some have it built in. TD uses the Chrome engine. 

I guess if you put TD on a machine that didn't have a browser it would be 
exciting just for that.

What excites me about TD & Bob is what they ADD functionally. TD Backstage 
is not much explored but exciting. Bob's Automation is special. The fact 
they both need one form of Browser of another seems secondary?

Not that I have answers. It seems molto difficile to "typify" TW in a way 
that could form a "selling point."

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I agree. I think its "N/A" on "Portability". 

However, with deference to Mat, still the point remains that NoteSelf is an 
interesting option for users who want a solution that works over many 
different types of devices from one source (a synched cloud based database).

On Monday, 28 May 2018 20:05:14 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:01:47 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> *Portable* : no (I'm open to being corrected but I didn't find a 
>> portableapps option)
>>
>> Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
>> device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
>> Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".
>>
>>
>>
> It's not portable in the sense that Mat's defined it here nor in the sense 
> that someone's created an actual "setup" to do that. If you start moving 
> into hypotheticals, rather than actuals,  the list would be endless.
>
> -- Mark
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Lost Admin]

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 2:27:44 PM UTC-4, Lost Admin wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 2:17:05 PM UTC-4, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> I agree. I think its "N/A" on "Portability". 
>>
>> However, with deference to Mat, still the point remains that NoteSelf is 
>> an interesting option for users who want a solution that works over many 
>> different types of devices from one source (a synched cloud based database).
>>
>> On Monday, 28 May 2018 20:05:14 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:01:47 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

 *Portable* : no (I'm open to being corrected but I didn't find a 
 portableapps option)

 Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
 device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
 Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".



>>> It's not portable in the sense that Mat's defined it here nor in the 
>>> sense that someone's created an actual "setup" to do that. If you start 
>>> moving into hypotheticals, rather than actuals,  the list would be endless.
>>>
>>> -- Mark
>>>
>>
> The strength I find in NoteSelf is that on large TiddlyWiki files it loads 
> and saves a lot faster (as only changes and tiddlers actually being 
> displayed are synced to the server).
>
> The biggest weakness I see is the set-up. It probably took me about 16 
> hours of effort (over about 3 weeks) to do my first functional setup of 
> CouchDB. But, I was doing that by digging through the CouchDB documentation 
> and various tutorials on how to setup CouchDB (there wasn't anything 
> specific for NoteSelf at the time; I'm fixing that). My most recent set-up 
> took under an hour.
>  
>

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Re: [tw5] TW in Public -- Karl Arao's TWClassic

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Fabulous wiki! Serious work. Your Cloud Map is awesome...

https://karlarao.github.io/karlaraowiki/index.html#TagCloud

On Monday, 28 May 2018 20:27:52 UTC+2, Karl Arao - karlarao.tiddlyspot.com 
wrote:
>
>
> yup still using it since 2008! 
>
> I moved it from tiddlyspot to git pages 
> https://karlarao.github.io/karlaraowiki/index.html 
> 
>  
> and URL redirect from karlarao.wiki 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 1:10 PM, @TiddlyTweeter  > wrote:
>
>>
>> https://karlarao.github.io/karlaraowiki/index.html#%5B%5BData%20Engineering%5D%5D
>>
>> An older TW still being added to years later.
>>
>> -- 
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>> .
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Karl Arao
> Wiki: karlarao.wiki
> Twitter: @karlarao 
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Lost Admin wrote:
>
> Filling in a few more blanks ...
>

Good stuff. Small comment ...
 

> NoteSelf
>
> *Encryption* : no
> *file-or-folder* : neither
> *format* : json
> *Portable* : no (I'm open to being corrected but I didn't find a 
> portableapps option)
>

Storage: In-browser database AND (optional) synced external database 
(either local or in cloud). 

Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".

Variants: It also comes in a Android App form (Beta).  

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

It's not a question of whether NS is useful or not or should be cherished 
and loved by all.

It's a question of whether anyone has created an instance or instructions 
(i.e. "setup") to allow it to be used as a portable application. The answer 
to that is "no". Hypothetically someone might, but until someone does it's 
not portable.

-- Mark

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:17:05 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> I agree. I think its "N/A" on "Portability". 
>
> However, with deference to Mat, still the point remains that NoteSelf is 
> an interesting option for users who want a solution that works over many 
> different types of devices from one source (a synched cloud based database).
>
> On Monday, 28 May 2018 20:05:14 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:01:47 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> *Portable* : no (I'm open to being corrected but I didn't find a 
>>> portableapps option)
>>>
>>> Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on any 
>>> device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its not a 
>>> Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> It's not portable in the sense that Mat's defined it here nor in the 
>> sense that someone's created an actual "setup" to do that. If you start 
>> moving into hypotheticals, rather than actuals,  the list would be endless.
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Lost Admin]

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 2:28:37 PM UTC-4, Lost Admin wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 2:27:44 PM UTC-4, Lost Admin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 2:17:05 PM UTC-4, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree. I think its "N/A" on "Portability". 
>>>
>>> However, with deference to Mat, still the point remains that NoteSelf is 
>>> an interesting option for users who want a solution that works over many 
>>> different types of devices from one source (a synched cloud based database).
>>>
>>> On Monday, 28 May 2018 20:05:14 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:



 On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:01:47 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> *Portable* : no (I'm open to being corrected but I didn't find a 
> portableapps option)
>
> Portable: YES, in the sense that you can run it from any browser on 
> any device. Its not dependent on location (paths). NO, in the sense its 
> not 
> a Portable app per se. I think the right answer is likely: "N/A".
>
>
>
 It's not portable in the sense that Mat's defined it here nor in the 
 sense that someone's created an actual "setup" to do that. If you start 
 moving into hypotheticals, rather than actuals,  the list would be endless.

 -- Mark

>>>
The strength I find in NoteSelf is that on large TiddlyWiki files it loads 
and saves a lot faster (as only changes and tiddlers actually being 
displayed are synced to the server).

The biggest weakness I see is the set-up. It probably took me about 16 
hours of effort (over about 3 weeks) to do my first functional setup of 
CouchDB. But, I was doing that by digging through the CouchDB documentation 
and various tutorials on how to setup CouchDB (there wasn't anything 
specific for NoteSelf at the time; I'm fixing that). My most recent set-up 
took under an hour.

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Jed Carty]

I think that trying to define these as exclusive categories is a problem 
because almost none of the options fit into just one. Almost all of the 
servers can save wikis but because of the scary name people may avoid 
something because it says it is a server instead of a saver when it is both.

One problem with the portability part is that the list is referring to if 
the installation is portable, not if the usable part is portable. I am not 
tied to any specific device to use TiddlySpot but it isn't portable in the 
sense used by the table.

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Lost Admin]

I'm with Jed on the portability part. Perhaps "works offline" instead? Even 
that is somewhat dependent on the details (I run a webdav server on my 
laptop, so it works fine when I'm offline).

There are also issue with "dependencies" as the list I provided is a very 
small sub-set of WebDAV server options that I believe should work fine for 
TiddlyWiki. At the same time, taking away the dependencies column is 
probably a bad idea because for many that would be a deciding factor.

Mat has really taken on a hard project.

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 2:33:39 PM UTC-4, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> I think that trying to define these as exclusive categories is a problem 
> because almost none of the options fit into just one. Almost all of the 
> servers can save wikis but because of the scary name people may avoid 
> something because it says it is a server instead of a saver when it is both.
>
> One problem with the portability part is that the list is referring to if 
> the installation is portable, not if the usable part is portable. I am not 
> tied to any specific device to use TiddlySpot but it isn't portable in the 
> sense used by the table.
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Lost Admin]

Filling in a few more blanks (may have already been done and not on setup 
yet):

WebDAV

*dependencies* : Apache or IIS (tested); possibly also supported on Nginx
*format* : html
*OS* : Any (Apache) or windows (IIS)
*Portable* : No (or maybe with Apache portableapps)

PHP (store.php)

*Dependencies* : Web server & PHP (confirmed on Apache 2.4 with php 5.6)
*Format* : html
*Portable* : No (or maybe with Apache portableapps)

NoteSelf

*Encryption* : no
*file-or-folder* : neither
*format* : json
*Portable* : no (I'm open to being corrected but I didn't find a 
portableapps option)


On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 1:35:02 PM UTC-4, Mat wrote:
>
> So, you want your TW to...
>
>- function well on your *phone*? 
>- *auto-sync* with your many devices?
>- work as a *shared* family wiki with to-do lists, reference matter 
>and all?
>- ...or even as a corporate system, with *simultaneous editing*?
>- ...and automatic *backups*?
>- be totally off-the-grid on a *RasPi* server?
>- or you want tools to *manage *all those TWs of yours? 
>
> Well, maybe it's possible
>
> The ol' TWaddler proudly presents...
>
> SetUp 
>
> - a guide to help you navigate to the TW system you want
>
> This was previously named "BackEnd" but SetUp is more appropriate given 
> that it concerns TW-specific: Savers, Servers, Services and Managers
>
> As you can see on that site, if you experiment a little and tick some 
> check-boxes, a lot of info is missing. You may disagree or want to add or 
> to remove either of...
>
>- SetUps
>- criteria (i.e the "features" listed that a user may look at to 
>decide what suits him)
>- options for the criteria
>- or even the categorization into "savers, servers, services and 
>managers"
>
>
> Well, I need help with this information. I barely know what a server is... 
> but I do know how to copy-paste text so if you guys provide the info, I do 
> the foot work.
>
> The point is to help anyone... no, I mean *everyone*!.. to get the most 
> out of TW. It really concerns all of us, so please do a good deed and help 
> out. The TiddlyGods will reward you.
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I would consider TD a saver, even though it uses an internal server because 
you never see the effects of using the server. The server and the gui have 
been combined into one application. Also, and I'm sure someone will correct 
me if I'm wrong, I don't think you can use it anywhere on your local 
network. I guess if it's on localhost it might be possible, but that's not 
the way it's usually used.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when you run Bob you *must* 
view it in a browser. So you have 2 things going. The user has to start the 
server, and the user has to open a browser window. And, the user can, if 
they want, open the server up to the local router. So Bob is a server. If 
you were explaining Bob to someone, you would have to point out this 
distinction -- it wouldn't be invisible.

About cars, I remember that the goal of auto design at one time was to 
reduce the number of moving parts. Then, in a marketing ploy, manufacturers 
started touting the number of valves cars had. It was never clear to me why 
it should be a good thing for a car to have lots of valves, but apparently 
someone had decided that more was better.

-- Mark


On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:33:25 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> I'm always for consistency. Except when I'm not ;-)
>> basic TW on node.js is a server. (it always needs the user to start a 
>> server)
>> basic TW single file is a saver. (it always saves a local file)
>>
>
> I'd be interested how you think about TiddlyDesktop.
>
> It supports both "single files" and "folders." In "folder mode" its 
> running an internal server. But do we need to know that? What does it add 
> knowing that in case of TD?
>
> This has brought up the issue of dependencies v. "self-contained". For 
> instance, do I really need to know Bob is a server? Not that I shouldn't, 
> but what does that knowledge add to practical function? My interest in Bob 
> is what it does, not how its constituted. Like TiddlyDesktop, it is 
> self-contained. Once an "app" is self contained, who cares, so long as it 
> does the job.
>
> I think its a bit like cars. I'm really not interested whether its an 85 
> cylinder thing. What does it DO? :-)
>

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[tw5] TW in Public -- Karl Arao's TWClassic

[@TiddlyTweeter]

https://karlarao.github.io/karlaraowiki/index.html#%5B%5BData%20Engineering%5D%5D

An older TW still being added to years later.

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:
>
> I'm always for consistency. Except when I'm not ;-)
> basic TW on node.js is a server. (it always needs the user to start a 
> server)
> basic TW single file is a saver. (it always saves a local file)
>

I'd be interested how you think about TiddlyDesktop.

It supports both "single files" and "folders." In "folder mode" its running 
an internal server. But do we need to know that? What does it add knowing 
that in case of TD?

This has brought up the issue of dependencies v. "self-contained". For 
instance, do I really need to know Bob is a server? Not that I shouldn't, 
but what does that knowledge add to practical function? My interest in Bob 
is what it does, not how its constituted. Like TiddlyDesktop, it is 
self-contained. Once an "app" is self contained, who cares, so long as it 
does the job.

I think its a bit like cars. I'm really not interested whether its an 85 
cylinder thing. What does it DO? :-)

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[tw5] Re: How do I export/concatenate en masse Tidddlers to MS Word?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Try perhaps (with your tag) :

<$list filter="[tag[HelloThere]]">
<>

<$transclude mode="block"/>







Keep in mind that any additional objects, like images, will have to be 
exported manually. External links (especially absolute ones) may not work 
when the platform is changed.

Good luck!
-- Mark

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 6:46:56 AM UTC-7, David Lewis wrote:
>
> Thanks. Sounds like the secret I was missing was to create a single 
> tiddler, not a bunch of tiddlers.
>
> If you don't mind -- as a small tutorial, could you explain or show how to 
> create that single tiddler, say for the tag "science", or better yet, the 
> tag query, "science" OR "time", with a separator of "::" 
> between concatenated retrieved tiddlers. I'll worry about export later.
>
> Thanks. --David
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:18:43 AM UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> A Shorthand answer,
>>
>> Just ask for more details. 
>>
>> If you create a single tiddler, that displays what you want to appear in 
>> your document, perhaps using a list of tiddlers with a given tag, sorted by 
>> an appropriate field or using drag and drop to set the order, you can then 
>> print the tiddler to PDF and open that in Word will be a quick answer.
>>  
>> Some export as HTML and do other tricks see a recent discussion on this 
>> here 
>> 
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:06:16 PM UTC+10, David Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm evaluating TW as a medium for taking research notes -- text, links 
>>> -- and then using them in the writing process. How would I accomplish the 
>>> following task:
>>>
>>>- Choose a set of tiddlers based on a tag or logical combination  of 
>>>tags, plus manual deletions
>>>- Export them all *en masse* into a MS Word document, concatenated, 
>>>with some kind of separator between them
>>>
>>> I'm still working through learning how to use TW, and I can't see an 
>>> obvious way to do this without copy/pasting each target tiddler 
>>> individually, which would be a big nuisance. It would be OK to export to 
>>> concatenated text and then manually transfer to Word.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I'm always for consistency. Except when I'm not ;-)

IMHO ...

basic TW on node.js is a server. (it always needs the user to start a 
server)

basic TW single file is a saver. (it always saves a local file)

Thanks!
Mark

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 6:59:03 AM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>
> Excellent. I've added the AndTidWiki stuff and Quine
>
> You probably already know this, but you have 2 copies of "basic tw on 
>> node.js" on the servers filter.
>>
>
> I'm a bit uncertain on this: the double copies was from marking "basic TW 
> on Node.js" as a server, so it turned up double because both the "basic TW 
> on node.js" och "basic TW single file" are permanently included for 
> comparison. Maybe that, i.e to have those two permanently on top, is not a 
> good idea? But if I classify "TW on node" as a server, what should I then 
> classify "basic TW singel file" as? 
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

Excellent. I've added the AndTidWiki stuff and Quine

You probably already know this, but you have 2 copies of "basic tw on 
> node.js" on the servers filter.
>

I'm a bit uncertain on this: the double copies was from marking "basic TW 
on Node.js" as a server, so it turned up double because both the "basic TW 
on node.js" och "basic TW single file" are permanently included for 
comparison. Maybe that, i.e to have those two permanently on top, is not a 
good idea? But if I classify "TW on node" as a server, what should I then 
classify "basic TW singel file" as? 

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Draggable list - change a filed value when drag and drop

[Mohammad]

Hi Tony!
 Thank you for your advise.
Yes, you are right, I can number the tiddlers at the end i.e after final 
change, I click a button to do that in the final list.
Let's try that!

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 5:57:02 PM UTC+4:30, TonyM wrote:
>
> Mohammad,
>
> Since no one has answered in 5 hours can I suggest (having not tested it) 
> you instead generate the page number as you list the tiddlers all as one, 
> perhaps using Evans Formula plugin to increment the page number? 
>
> Is there a reason you feel you need to set a field page number when you 
> are likely to change the order anyway? Why not get that number just in time?
>
> Other wise to set a field value you will need to trigger an action wizard 
> in a button to set the field, for each tiddler. Look for solutions that 
> apply a tag to every tiddler in a list for a parallel solution, that you 
> can change to a field, after all tags are just values in the tag field.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 6:15:02 PM UTC+10, Mohammad wrote:
>>
>> I have a draggable list as below
>>
>> <>
>>
>>
>> Every tiddler has a filed called "page". My question is when I changed 
>> the order of tiddlers by drag and drop, I want the value of this filed
>> changes accordingly. To explain more, I have three tiddlers like below
>>
>>
>> Tiddler-A
>> Tiddler-B
>> Tiddler-C
>>
>> Their page filed value is like 001, 002, 003, then using drag and drop I 
>> change the order as below
>>
>>
>> Tiddler-C
>> Tiddler-A
>> Tiddler-B
>>
>> Now, I want the filed values change accordingly i.e page filed of 
>> Tiddler-C now should have the value: 001, Tiddler-A: 002, Tiddler-B: 003
>>
>>
>> How can I do this?
>>
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: How do I export/concatenate en masse Tidddlers to MS Word?

[David Lewis]

Thanks. Sounds like the secret I was missing was to create a single 
tiddler, not a bunch of tiddlers.

If you don't mind -- as a small tutorial, could you explain or show how to 
create that single tiddler, say for the tag "science", or better yet, the 
tag query, "science" OR "time", with a separator of "::" 
between concatenated retrieved tiddlers. I'll worry about export later.

Thanks. --David

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:18:43 AM UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>
> A Shorthand answer,
>
> Just ask for more details. 
>
> If you create a single tiddler, that displays what you want to appear in 
> your document, perhaps using a list of tiddlers with a given tag, sorted by 
> an appropriate field or using drag and drop to set the order, you can then 
> print the tiddler to PDF and open that in Word will be a quick answer.
>  
> Some export as HTML and do other tricks see a recent discussion on this 
> here 
> 
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:06:16 PM UTC+10, David Lewis wrote:
>>
>> I'm evaluating TW as a medium for taking research notes -- text, links -- 
>> and then using them in the writing process. How would I accomplish the 
>> following task:
>>
>>- Choose a set of tiddlers based on a tag or logical combination  of 
>>tags, plus manual deletions
>>- Export them all *en masse* into a MS Word document, concatenated, 
>>with some kind of separator between them
>>
>> I'm still working through learning how to use TW, and I can't see an 
>> obvious way to do this without copy/pasting each target tiddler 
>> individually, which would be a big nuisance. It would be OK to export to 
>> concatenated text and then manually transfer to Word.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Draggable list - change a filed value when drag and drop

[TonyM]

Mohammad,

Since no one has answered in 5 hours can I suggest (having not tested it) 
you instead generate the page number as you list the tiddlers all as one, 
perhaps using Evans Formula plugin to increment the page number? 

Is there a reason you feel you need to set a field page number when you are 
likely to change the order anyway? Why not get that number just in time?

Other wise to set a field value you will need to trigger an action wizard 
in a button to set the field, for each tiddler. Look for solutions that 
apply a tag to every tiddler in a list for a parallel solution, that you 
can change to a field, after all tags are just values in the tag field.

Regards
Tony

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 6:15:02 PM UTC+10, Mohammad wrote:
>
> I have a draggable list as below
>
> <>
>
>
> Every tiddler has a filed called "page". My question is when I changed 
> the order of tiddlers by drag and drop, I want the value of this filed
> changes accordingly. To explain more, I have three tiddlers like below
>
>
> Tiddler-A
> Tiddler-B
> Tiddler-C
>
> Their page filed value is like 001, 002, 003, then using drag and drop I 
> change the order as below
>
>
> Tiddler-C
> Tiddler-A
> Tiddler-B
>
> Now, I want the filed values change accordingly i.e page filed of 
> Tiddler-C now should have the value: 001, Tiddler-A: 002, Tiddler-B: 003
>
>
> How can I do this?
>
>
> Thank you
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Hi Mat,

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 2:13:49 AM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>
> Done. Any others that should fall into this criteria as well?
>  
>
>> Maybe "format" should include "executable" for setups like "Bob single 
>> user"?
>>
>
> I have a criteria called "App". Does this cover it or is an app something 
> else?
>
>

Twenty years ago there would have been no ambiguity. I've noticed that 
these days an "App" almost always refers to a small application that runs 
on a smart phone or tablet. It's more of a "What is the first thing you 
think of" kind of question.

 

> The currently empty fields of Tiddly server should be just like Bob 
>> multi-user except not "multi-user". Also, ts has backup option for single 
>> tw file backups.
>>
>
> So no mistake; "Bob on Node" or "Bob single exec."?
>

"Bob on Node", I think.
 
"File Backups" would definitely be in the "saver" category.

Thanks!
Mark

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[tw5] Re: How do I export/concatenate en masse Tidddlers to MS Word?

[TonyM]

A Shorthand answer,

Just ask for more details. 

If you create a single tiddler, that displays what you want to appear in 
your document, perhaps using a list of tiddlers with a given tag, sorted by 
an appropriate field or using drag and drop to set the order, you can then 
print the tiddler to PDF and open that in Word will be a quick answer.
 
Some export as HTML and do other tricks see a recent discussion on this here 


Regards
Tony

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:06:16 PM UTC+10, David Lewis wrote:
>
> I'm evaluating TW as a medium for taking research notes -- text, links -- 
> and then using them in the writing process. How would I accomplish the 
> following task:
>
>- Choose a set of tiddlers based on a tag or logical combination  of 
>tags, plus manual deletions
>- Export them all *en masse* into a MS Word document, concatenated, 
>with some kind of separator between them
>
> I'm still working through learning how to use TW, and I can't see an 
> obvious way to do this without copy/pasting each target tiddler 
> individually, which would be a big nuisance. It would be OK to export to 
> concatenated text and then manually transfer to Word.
>
>
> Thanks!
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Hi Mat,

You probably already know this, but you have 2 copies of "basic tw on 
node.js" on the servers filter.

AndTidwiki:

autobackup: no
data-storage: local-device
enc: Native-iTw-enc.
format: html-file
(not "browser in itself" which s.b. for the "browser" column)
mlti-user: no
OS: Android
portable: no 
versioning: no

I don't use iOS, but I believe Quine is the equivalent of AndTidWiki on 
that platform. So everything would be the same except OS. 

Thanks!
Mark

On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 10:35:02 AM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>
> So, you want your TW to...
>
>- function well on your *phone*? 
>- *auto-sync* with your many devices?
>- work as a *shared* family wiki with to-do lists, reference matter 
>and all?
>- ...or even as a corporate system, with *simultaneous editing*?
>- ...and automatic *backups*?
>- be totally off-the-grid on a *RasPi* server?
>- or you want tools to *manage *all those TWs of yours? 
>
> Well, maybe it's possible
>
> The ol' TWaddler proudly presents...
>
> SetUp 
>
> - a guide to help you navigate to the TW system you want
>
> This was previously named "BackEnd" but SetUp is more appropriate given 
> that it concerns TW-specific: Savers, Servers, Services and Managers
>
> As you can see on that site, if you experiment a little and tick some 
> check-boxes, a lot of info is missing. You may disagree or want to add or 
> to remove either of...
>
>- SetUps
>- criteria (i.e the "features" listed that a user may look at to 
>decide what suits him)
>- options for the criteria
>- or even the categorization into "savers, servers, services and 
>managers"
>
>
> Well, I need help with this information. I barely know what a server is... 
> but I do know how to copy-paste text so if you guys provide the info, I do 
> the foot work.
>
> The point is to help anyone... no, I mean *everyone*!.. to get the most 
> out of TW. It really concerns all of us, so please do a good deed and help 
> out. The TiddlyGods will reward you.
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] How do I export/concatenate en masse Tidddlers to MS Word?

[David Lewis]

I'm evaluating TW as a medium for taking research notes -- text, links -- 
and then using them in the writing process. How would I accomplish the 
following task:

   - Choose a set of tiddlers based on a tag or logical combination  of 
   tags, plus manual deletions
   - Export them all *en masse* into a MS Word document, concatenated, with 
   some kind of separator between them

I'm still working through learning how to use TW, and I can't see an 
obvious way to do this without copy/pasting each target tiddler 
individually, which would be a big nuisance. It would be OK to export to 
concatenated text and then manually transfer to Word.


Thanks!

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> I think "basic tw on node.js" should be the same as "Bob" except 
> multi-user is "no".
>

Done.
 

> Possibly for both OS should be "any OS with node.js" since some people 
> have gotten node.js to work on termux.
>

Done. Any others that should fall into this criteria as well?
 

> Maybe "format" should include "executable" for setups like "Bob single 
> user"?
>

I have a criteria called "App". Does this cover it or is an app something 
else?

The currently empty fields of Tiddly server should be just like Bob 
> multi-user except not "multi-user". Also, ts has backup option for single 
> tw file backups.
>

So no mistake; "Bob on Node" or "Bob single exec."?

All the links in the right column go to the "Getting Started" page where 
> the user has to start over again. Perhaps you could link to the permalink 
> for the topic rather than going through a detour.? Also on a small device, 
> the result of hitting the blue links in "Getting Started" is almost 
> invisible to a user, appearing down below out of sight.
>

OK, I removed the links to GettingStarted. 

Again, thank you Mark. Much appreciated.

<:-)

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[tw5] Draggable list - change a filed value when drag and drop

[Mohammad]

I have a draggable list as below

<>


Every tiddler has a filed called "page". My question is when I changed the 
order of tiddlers by drag and drop, I want the value of this filed
changes accordingly. To explain more, I have three tiddlers like below


Tiddler-A
Tiddler-B
Tiddler-C

Their page filed value is like 001, 002, 003, then using drag and drop I 
change the order as below


Tiddler-C
Tiddler-A
Tiddler-B

Now, I want the filed values change accordingly i.e page filed of Tiddler-C 
now should have the value: 001, Tiddler-A: 002, Tiddler-B: 003


How can I do this?


Thank you

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[tw5] Draggable list - change a filed value when drag and drop

[Mohammad]

I have a draggable list as below

<>


Every tiddler has a filed called "page". My question is when I changed the 
order of tiddlers by drag and drop, I want the value of this filed
changes accordingly. To explain more, I have three tiddlers like below


Tiddler-A
Tiddler-B
Tiddler-C

Their page filed value is like 001, 002, 003, then using drag and drop I 
change the order as below


Tiddler-C
Tiddler-A
Tiddler-B

Now, I want the filed values change accordingly i.e page filed of Tiddler-C 
now should have the value: 001, Tiddler-A: 002, Tiddler-B: 003


How can I do this?


Thank you

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