Re: [tw5] Re: NoteTaking in Streams - hierarchy-preserving flattening in wikitext

[Frédéric Demers]

Here's a version that wraps in  only the nodes that have line breaks
in them; there's certainly a cleaner way to do this, but here it is as
inspiration/proof-of-concept.

wikitext output below code; the screen capture sent previously is unchanged.

\define print-row()
\whitespace trim
 <$vars lb="
">
<$set name="depth"
filter="[get-stream-root:includeall[]count[]]">
<$set name="prefix" filter="[[*]pad,[*]removesuffix[*]]" select="0">
<$set name="prewrap"
filter="[regexp:text[\n]then[]]" select="0">
<$set name="postwrap"
filter="[regexp:text[\n]then[]]" select="0">
  <$list
filter="[get[text]addprefixaddprefixaddsuffixaddsuffix]"
select="0" variable="nodetext">
<$text text=<> />
<$list filter="[has[stream-list]]" variable="_NULL">
<$list filter="[enlist{!!stream-list}is[tiddler]]">
<>


  





\end

\define print-stream()
\whitespace trim
<$list filter="[enlist{!!stream-list}is[tiddler]]">
<>

\end

<$button> export
<$wikify name="flat" text=<> >
<$action-setfield $tiddler="report" text=<>/>



-

*''Version 1.0''
**Add affordance to collapse/expand all nodes of a  stream
**''CSS''
***Update css to respect color palette
**''Settings''
***''Configuration settings for context menu items''
Include other menu items like demote/promote that are disabled by
default
Config screen for enabling/disabling context menu items
Allow specifying that a contextmenu item should be displayed on narrow
screens (mobile) only?
***Config tiddler for node content template
*Have an option to detach a bullet from a list.
*''Version 1.1''
**//Provide a better UI to rename bullets while editing//
**UI ideas re: modals

https://getbootstrap.com/docs/3.4/javascript/#popovers

http://www.uxforthemasses.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/LinkedIn-edit-example.jpg

*''Other Ideas''
**drag and drop considerations
***copy/transclude via modifier keys to another tiddler doesnt include
nested children
**option to flatten a bullet list to one tiddler, for publishing/export
**context menu that applies to entire stream
**Consider different styling for default bullet
*''Version 2.0''
**''templating for list row items and row controls''
***Allow for different kinds of stream tiddlers (todo, comments, etc)
**Use draft mechanism for editing
***navigator.js L266



On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 at 23:20, Frédéric Demers  wrote:

> Greetings all,
>
> Using bits and pieces I cobbled together (like a plumber), I found a way
> to flatten a stream of nodes into another tiddler and preserve the
> hierarchy of the nodes.
>
> The key was to 1) use the recursive macro provide by Saq, 2) use the
> get-stream-root[]count[] filter to determine depth of the node, and 3)
> use the pad[]operator to turn said depth in the correct number of *
> characters.
> I had to work a bit to extract the wikitext correctly. I wrapped each node
> in a  tag pair to allow multi-line nodes... though a smarter filter
> set could do that only if line feeds are present in the node text.
>
> rendered preview enclosed, wikitext output below the sample code.
>
> \define print-row()
> \whitespace trim
> <$set name="depth"
> filter="[get-stream-root:includeall[]count[]]">
> <$set name="prefix" filter="[[*]pad,[*]removesuffix[*]]" select="0">
> <$vars lb="
> ">
>  <$list
> filter="[get[text]addprefix[]addprefixaddsuffix]"
> select="0" variable="nodetext">
> <$text text=<> />
> <$list filter="[has[stream-list]]" variable="_NULL">
> <$list filter="[enlist{!!stream-list}is[tiddler]]">
> <>
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \end
>
> \define print-stream()
> \whitespace trim
> <$list filter="[enlist{!!stream-list}is[tiddler]]">
> <>
> 
> \end
>
> <$button> export
> <$wikify name="flat" text=<> >
> <$action-setfield $tiddler="report" text=<>/>
> 
> 
>
>
> --
>
> *''Version 1.0''
> **Add affordance to collapse/expand all nodes of a  stream
> **''CSS''
> ***Update css to respect color palette
> **''Settings''
> ***''Configuration settings for context menu items''
> Include other menu items like demote/promote that are disabled by
> default
> Config screen for enabling/disabling context menu items
> Allow specifying that a contextmenu item should be displayed on
> narrow screens (mobile) only?
> ***Config tiddler for node content template
> *Have an option to detach a bullet from a list.
> *''Version 1.1''
> **//Provide a better UI to rename bullets while editing//
> **UI ideas re: modals
>
> https://getbootstrap.com/docs/3.4/javascript/#popovers
>
>
> http://www.uxforthemasses.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/LinkedIn-edit-example.jpg
> 
> *''Other Ideas''
> **drag and drop considerations
> ***copy/transclude via modifier keys to another tiddler doesnt
> include nested children
> **option to flatten a bullet list to one tiddler, for
> publishing/export
> **context menu that applies to entire stream
> **Consider different styling for default bullet
> *''Version 2.0''
> 

[tw5] Re: Introducing: the Subsume plugin.

[Frédéric Demers]

I am a fan; nicely done; probably will become part of my core toolset!
thank you!

On Friday, 16 July 2021 at 23:07:55 UTC-4 David Gifford wrote:

> Hi Brian
>
> I thought about that. I wasn't sure if Subsume should be thought of more 
> for readers / web viewers, who might be confused by the sudden switch to 
> edit mode, or for writers, for whom edit mode would be one click less, thus 
> more efficient.
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:14:42 PM UTC-5 Brian Radspinner wrote:
>
>> I like it! Simple but effective. 
>>
>> An option to think about: you could change the asterisk link to instead 
>> be a button that opens the tiddler in edit-mode rather than view-mode.It 
>> will save a step to go right to editing.
>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone
>>>
>>> For a while it seemed the problems would never end. But with the help of 
>>> a lot of people, the Subsume plugin has finally landed. 
>>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html
>>>
>>> Subsumes are a combination of links and sliders in one macro, so that 
>>> you can either open a link to a subsumed tiddler or open a slider to view 
>>> its contents without losing your place in the host tiddler. 
>>>
>>> Subsumes can be nested, so this plugin is also a way to do outlining in 
>>> TiddlyWiki similar to Dynalist and Workflowy. Includes an editor toolbar, 
>>> relinking of subsumes, excising as subsumes, and, with an addon, 
>>> autocompletion as subsumes.
>>>
>>> See the new video tutorial at the demo site. A big thanks to snowgoon88 
>>> and flibbles for their plugins, and to everyone who helped me out with 
>>> previous versions (hideme, det) and now subsume
>>>
>>> Feedback welcome and appreciated!
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Introducing: the Subsume plugin.

[David Gifford]

Hi Brian

I thought about that. I wasn't sure if Subsume should be thought of more 
for readers / web viewers, who might be confused by the sudden switch to 
edit mode, or for writers, for whom edit mode would be one click less, thus 
more efficient.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:14:42 PM UTC-5 Brian Radspinner wrote:

> I like it! Simple but effective. 
>
> An option to think about: you could change the asterisk link to instead be 
> a button that opens the tiddler in edit-mode rather than view-mode.It will 
> save a step to go right to editing.
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> For a while it seemed the problems would never end. But with the help of 
>> a lot of people, the Subsume plugin has finally landed. 
>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html
>>
>> Subsumes are a combination of links and sliders in one macro, so that you 
>> can either open a link to a subsumed tiddler or open a slider to view its 
>> contents without losing your place in the host tiddler. 
>>
>> Subsumes can be nested, so this plugin is also a way to do outlining in 
>> TiddlyWiki similar to Dynalist and Workflowy. Includes an editor toolbar, 
>> relinking of subsumes, excising as subsumes, and, with an addon, 
>> autocompletion as subsumes.
>>
>> See the new video tutorial at the demo site. A big thanks to snowgoon88 
>> and flibbles for their plugins, and to everyone who helped me out with 
>> previous versions (hideme, det) and now subsume
>>
>> Feedback welcome and appreciated!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Introducing: the Subsume plugin.

[Brian Radspinner]

I like it! Simple but effective. 

An option to think about: you could change the asterisk link to instead be 
a button that opens the tiddler in edit-mode rather than view-mode.It will 
save a step to go right to editing.
On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 4:33:23 PM UTC-7 David Gifford wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> For a while it seemed the problems would never end. But with the help of a 
> lot of people, the Subsume plugin has finally landed. 
> https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html
>
> Subsumes are a combination of links and sliders in one macro, so that you 
> can either open a link to a subsumed tiddler or open a slider to view its 
> contents without losing your place in the host tiddler. 
>
> Subsumes can be nested, so this plugin is also a way to do outlining in 
> TiddlyWiki similar to Dynalist and Workflowy. Includes an editor toolbar, 
> relinking of subsumes, excising as subsumes, and, with an addon, 
> autocompletion as subsumes.
>
> See the new video tutorial at the demo site. A big thanks to snowgoon88 
> and flibbles for their plugins, and to everyone who helped me out with 
> previous versions (hideme, det) and now subsume
>
> Feedback welcome and appreciated!
>

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[tw5] Introducing: the Subsume plugin.

[David Gifford]

Hi everyone

For a while it seemed the problems would never end. But with the help of a 
lot of people, the Subsume plugin has finally landed. 
https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html

Subsumes are a combination of links and sliders in one macro, so that you 
can either open a link to a subsumed tiddler or open a slider to view its 
contents without losing your place in the host tiddler. 

Subsumes can be nested, so this plugin is also a way to do outlining in 
TiddlyWiki similar to Dynalist and Workflowy. Includes an editor toolbar, 
relinking of subsumes, excising as subsumes, and, with an addon, 
autocompletion as subsumes.

See the new video tutorial at the demo site. A big thanks to snowgoon88 and 
flibbles for their plugins, and to everyone who helped me out with previous 
versions (hideme, det) and now subsume

Feedback welcome and appreciated!

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[tw5] Re: Plugin packaging question

[David Gifford]

Ahh okay, never mind that last post. For some reason Relink was disabled. 
Now everything works as it ought.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 4:07:16 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:

> Hmmm. I had that plugin packaged in my plugin. It was there, but was also 
> a shadow tiddler.
>
> Okay, now I deleted Relink, removed it from my plugin, and repackaged my 
> plugin without Relink, then re-installed Relink. But it still doesn't work. 
> I uploaded it to the same link.
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 3:05:05 PM UTC-5 Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
>> I am on my phone so this is mostly speculation:
>>
>> Your plugin seems to be depend on Relink, but your wiki doesn't have it 
>> installed.
>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:47:44 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe I spoke too soon, Saq. There is no list of any kind in my plugin. 
>>> The subsumes are just macros. And the macros don't display. The macro 
>>> definition is now in a shadow tiddler.
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:39:17 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>>>
 D'oh! Thanks *again* (sigh), Saq! Gotta write that one down as a note 
 to myself in documenting.tw...

 On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:35:41 PM UTC-5 Saq Imtiaz wrote:

> Same issue probably: 
> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/7EHujx-J1U4/m/7ouJ73ktBAAJ
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:01:39 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> If you need to see the problem, the link is 
>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html.
>>
>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 1:53:27 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I just packaged the Subsume plugin (slider-and-link combo pointing 
>>> to tiddler B from tiddler A in one macro). But my system tiddlers are 
>>> now 
>>> shadow tiddlers, thanks to the Tinka packaging process, so the subsume 
>>> macros don't show anything in view mode.
>>>
>>> I could click each shadow tiddler of the plugin so it would become a 
>>> system tiddler. But I don't want users to have to do that.
>>>
>>> Is there a way around this?
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Plugin packaging question

[David Gifford]

Hmmm. I had that plugin packaged in my plugin. It was there, but was also a 
shadow tiddler.

Okay, now I deleted Relink, removed it from my plugin, and repackaged my 
plugin without Relink, then re-installed Relink. But it still doesn't work. 
I uploaded it to the same link.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 3:05:05 PM UTC-5 Saq Imtiaz wrote:

> I am on my phone so this is mostly speculation:
>
> Your plugin seems to be depend on Relink, but your wiki doesn't have it 
> installed.
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:47:44 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> Maybe I spoke too soon, Saq. There is no list of any kind in my plugin. 
>> The subsumes are just macros. And the macros don't display. The macro 
>> definition is now in a shadow tiddler.
>>
>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:39:17 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>> D'oh! Thanks *again* (sigh), Saq! Gotta write that one down as a note to 
>>> myself in documenting.tw...
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:35:41 PM UTC-5 Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
 Same issue probably: 
 https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/7EHujx-J1U4/m/7ouJ73ktBAAJ

 On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:01:39 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:

> If you need to see the problem, the link is 
> https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html.
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 1:53:27 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>
>>
>> I just packaged the Subsume plugin (slider-and-link combo pointing to 
>> tiddler B from tiddler A in one macro). But my system tiddlers are now 
>> shadow tiddlers, thanks to the Tinka packaging process, so the subsume 
>> macros don't show anything in view mode.
>>
>> I could click each shadow tiddler of the plugin so it would become a 
>> system tiddler. But I don't want users to have to do that.
>>
>> Is there a way around this?
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Plugin packaging question

[Saq Imtiaz]

I am on my phone so this is mostly speculation:

Your plugin seems to be depend on Relink, but your wiki doesn't have it 
installed.
On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:47:44 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:

> Maybe I spoke too soon, Saq. There is no list of any kind in my plugin. 
> The subsumes are just macros. And the macros don't display. The macro 
> definition is now in a shadow tiddler.
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:39:17 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> D'oh! Thanks *again* (sigh), Saq! Gotta write that one down as a note to 
>> myself in documenting.tw...
>>
>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:35:41 PM UTC-5 Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>>> Same issue probably: 
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/7EHujx-J1U4/m/7ouJ73ktBAAJ
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:01:39 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:
>>>
 If you need to see the problem, the link is 
 https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html.

 On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 1:53:27 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:

>
> I just packaged the Subsume plugin (slider-and-link combo pointing to 
> tiddler B from tiddler A in one macro). But my system tiddlers are now 
> shadow tiddlers, thanks to the Tinka packaging process, so the subsume 
> macros don't show anything in view mode.
>
> I could click each shadow tiddler of the plugin so it would become a 
> system tiddler. But I don't want users to have to do that.
>
> Is there a way around this?
>


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[tw5] Re: Plugin packaging question

[David Gifford]

Maybe I spoke too soon, Saq. There is no list of any kind in my plugin. The 
subsumes are just macros. And the macros don't display. The macro 
definition is now in a shadow tiddler.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:39:17 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:

> D'oh! Thanks *again* (sigh), Saq! Gotta write that one down as a note to 
> myself in documenting.tw...
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:35:41 PM UTC-5 Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
>> Same issue probably: 
>> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/7EHujx-J1U4/m/7ouJ73ktBAAJ
>>
>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:01:39 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>> If you need to see the problem, the link is 
>>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html.
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 1:53:27 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>>>

 I just packaged the Subsume plugin (slider-and-link combo pointing to 
 tiddler B from tiddler A in one macro). But my system tiddlers are now 
 shadow tiddlers, thanks to the Tinka packaging process, so the subsume 
 macros don't show anything in view mode.

 I could click each shadow tiddler of the plugin so it would become a 
 system tiddler. But I don't want users to have to do that.

 Is there a way around this?

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Plugin packaging question

[David Gifford]

D'oh! Thanks *again* (sigh), Saq! Gotta write that one down as a note to 
myself in documenting.tw...

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:35:41 PM UTC-5 Saq Imtiaz wrote:

> Same issue probably: 
> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/7EHujx-J1U4/m/7ouJ73ktBAAJ
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:01:39 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> If you need to see the problem, the link is 
>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html.
>>
>> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 1:53:27 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I just packaged the Subsume plugin (slider-and-link combo pointing to 
>>> tiddler B from tiddler A in one macro). But my system tiddlers are now 
>>> shadow tiddlers, thanks to the Tinka packaging process, so the subsume 
>>> macros don't show anything in view mode.
>>>
>>> I could click each shadow tiddler of the plugin so it would become a 
>>> system tiddler. But I don't want users to have to do that.
>>>
>>> Is there a way around this?
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Plugin packaging question

[Saq Imtiaz]

Same issue 
probably: https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/7EHujx-J1U4/m/7ouJ73ktBAAJ

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 9:01:39 PM UTC+2 David Gifford wrote:

> If you need to see the problem, the link is 
> https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html.
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 1:53:27 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:
>
>>
>> I just packaged the Subsume plugin (slider-and-link combo pointing to 
>> tiddler B from tiddler A in one macro). But my system tiddlers are now 
>> shadow tiddlers, thanks to the Tinka packaging process, so the subsume 
>> macros don't show anything in view mode.
>>
>> I could click each shadow tiddler of the plugin so it would become a 
>> system tiddler. But I don't want users to have to do that.
>>
>> Is there a way around this?
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Plugin packaging question

[David Gifford]

If you need to see the problem, the link is 
https://giffmex.org/gifts/subsume.html.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 1:53:27 PM UTC-5 David Gifford wrote:

>
> I just packaged the Subsume plugin (slider-and-link combo pointing to 
> tiddler B from tiddler A in one macro). But my system tiddlers are now 
> shadow tiddlers, thanks to the Tinka packaging process, so the subsume 
> macros don't show anything in view mode.
>
> I could click each shadow tiddler of the plugin so it would become a 
> system tiddler. But I don't want users to have to do that.
>
> Is there a way around this?
>

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[tw5] Plugin packaging question

[David Gifford]

I just packaged the Subsume plugin (slider-and-link combo pointing to 
tiddler B from tiddler A in one macro). But my system tiddlers are now 
shadow tiddlers, thanks to the Tinka packaging process, so the subsume 
macros don't show anything in view mode.

I could click each shadow tiddler of the plugin so it would become a system 
tiddler. But I don't want users to have to do that.

Is there a way around this?

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Re: [tw5] I broke the json pre-release :|

[springer]

Since I need to be away for a while, and in case it's helpful, here's a 
link to the entire json segment (copied from "inspect" tool from crash 
window):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8h1nb4z3npl6odj/json-store-from-crash.json?dl=0

Oddly, I can drag this whole json file onto the official pre-release, and 
apart from duplications and plugin version-conflicts, I see no errors on 
import preview, and import seems to work fine. 

But of course I'm not saving to github from there... 

Tapping out for now...

-Springer


On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:37:26 PM UTC-4 springer wrote:

> No red screen! Just "poof" no tiddlywiki interface.
>
> But here's one clue: I tried exporting a json set of tiddlers from the 
> non-crash "early" version (which you can load at url above), and THAT json 
> export file, when re-imported, yields an error that suggests the dynamic 
> table's json entry didn't get proper "closure" (the error is "between" that 
> one and the next tiddler in the json list).
>
> So, it may be safe to assume, for now, that something about Shiraz's 
> dynamic tables needs updating. Which of course would be in some ways 
> surprising if it weren't so, since it was built within the old assumptions 
> about how fields can be named.
>
> Also, I *do* have a window with the failed file "loaded" (white screen). 
> So I could use "inspect" to get at the json list...
>
> [image: From Clipboard.jpg]
>
>
>
> On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:30:19 PM UTC-4 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Springer 
>>
>> Was it a "red screen of embarrassment" crash? It would certainly be 
>> helpful to pin it down if we can. 
>>
>> > I'd also welcome tips on how to get github to actually download files 
>> from the history (When I try, I just get html within a new browser tab). 
>>
>> It's a bit convoluted: first, click on the three dots at the top right of 
>> the file in the commit listing: 
>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] I broke the json pre-release :|

[springer]

No red screen! Just "poof" no tiddlywiki interface.

But here's one clue: I tried exporting a json set of tiddlers from the 
non-crash "early" version (which you can load at url above), and THAT json 
export file, when re-imported, yields an error that suggests the dynamic 
table's json entry didn't get proper "closure" (the error is "between" that 
one and the next tiddler in the json list).

So, it may be safe to assume, for now, that something about Shiraz's 
dynamic tables needs updating. Which of course would be in some ways 
surprising if it weren't so, since it was built within the old assumptions 
about how fields can be named.

Also, I *do* have a window with the failed file "loaded" (white screen). So 
I could use "inspect" to get at the json list...

[image: From Clipboard.jpg]



On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 12:30:19 PM UTC-4 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Springer
>
> Was it a "red screen of embarrassment" crash? It would certainly be 
> helpful to pin it down if we can.
>
> > I'd also welcome tips on how to get github to actually download files 
> from the history (When I try, I just get html within a new browser tab).
>
> It's a bit convoluted: first, click on the three dots at the top right of 
> the file in the commit listing:
>
>

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Re: [tw5] I broke the json pre-release :|

[Saq Imtiaz]

I don't have the opportunity to debug this at the moment but I believe this 
is the commit responsible:
https://github.com/springerspandrel/tw/commit/49a0b1ef1ef37d79e514c0a9cf7685e8f4baa75f#diff-81fd67dbd185daf4f0208c57ff40d029e2c72509417aec3bcb2f651900573431R265

Seems like the boot process just doesn't load anything and we get a blank 
screen.

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:30:19 PM UTC+2 Jeremy Ruston wrote:

> Hi Springer
>
> Was it a "red screen of embarrassment" crash? It would certainly be 
> helpful to pin it down if we can.
>
> > I'd also welcome tips on how to get github to actually download files 
> from the history (When I try, I just get html within a new browser tab).
>
> It's a bit convoluted: first, click on the three dots at the top right of 
> the file in the commit listing:
>
>

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[tw5] Re: How to make a default field for a new record?

[Eric Shulman]

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 6:06:17 AM UTC-7 miket...@gmail.com wrote:

> ** In the list of EditTemplate definitions, drag-and-drop to move the URL 
> EditTemplate above "$:/core/ui/EditTemplate/fields"*
> Where is the sort order stored? I thought in field *list *or 
> *list-before/after,* but did not find it anywhere.
>

When you re-order tagged items, the new order is stored in *the list field 
of the tag* itself.
In this case, that would be: *$:/tags/EditTemplate*

-e

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[tw5] I broke the json pre-release :|

[springer]

Jeremy and all: I "broke" the pre-release this morning, recklessly pushing 
the limits with field-names (saving on github).

Alas, it's not easy for me to reconstruct what the last straw was. I don't 
know how to restore (to the most recent non-broken version) with github, so 
as to retrace the most recent steps. (What's public-facing, now, is now a 
very early state that I restored from Chrome, where I had opened it up 
prior to digging in much: 
https://springerspandrel.github.io/tw/new-json-tw-experiment.html)

Here's the github history url: 
https://github.com/springerspandrel/tw/commits/c5a8c5807f22eb35cec72baf9b5a496a1d7a67ac/new-json-tw-experiment.html

My best quick reconstruction: 

1. I had begun by pushing the boundaries with field-names (Japanese words 
(yay!); emoji; names with spaces and eventually getting bold with special 
code-like strings). I switched from Chrome to Safari to observe some of the 
ways that the browsers differ in how/whether they display emoji (such as ⁉️ 

)

2. I spent a while tinkering with getting Shiraz dynamic tables to show a 
row for each non-system field, then making each field-name into a tiddler 
by filling in its caption column and various other silly field parameters, 
like a ★★★☆☆ rating column. (I discovered Shiraz can apparently can also 
render columns not only for emojis and such, but also for field names with 
spaces, if you just put [[field name]] in double-brackets). All was 
behaving well, and saves were surprisingly fast...

3. I had moved on to trying to define a macro to expand within Shiraz, to 
get Shiraz to work with the string 
$(whatever-this-tiddlers-non-system-fields-are)$ as column set... (I had 
pulled in a tobibeer code about exercise-values to reverse-engineer, so any 
version with the string "exercise" is close to when it crashed).

It was while I was tinkering with that macro-variable tiddler (and perhaps 
with a stray keystroke I unwittingly committed the tiddler and triggered a 
save?) that the whole thing crashed. Somehow with one keystroke  the 
browser window blinked to white, and all attempts to reload yielded a 
completely blank screen (until I over-wrote with the much earlier version 
from other browser).

So, as Jeremy says, the pre-release is not for vital projects yet. ;)  

I'm happy to "help" by trying to break it again, but since I'm not sure 
what went wrong, I'll take a break until someone else has some insight. If 
I need to do anything at github to help others see "under the bonnet" ;) , 
I'm happy to do that. I'd also welcome tips on how to get github to 
actually download files from the history (When I try, I just get html 
within a new browser tab).

-Springer

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 7:35:46 AM UTC-4 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> It doesn’t sound very exciting, but the new JSON-based store area has now 
> been merged into the prerelease.
>
> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/
>
> This is the big change that has prompted us moving from v5.1.23 to v5.2.0. 
> It brings one major benefit to all users of TiddlyWIki: the characters used 
> in field names are now unrestricted, making it possible to use fieldnames 
> like "My^Field” or “☃️”.
>
> While that is an important change that we hope will lead to the 
> development of interesting new techniques for working with data in 
> TiddlyWiki, the biggest risk of this change is that it is not fully 
> backwards compatible.
>
> That is to say that *any tools that work directly with TiddlyWiki files 
> will no longer work as expected, and need updating to understand the new 
> format*.
>
> The new format is documented here:
>
>
> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/dev/#Data%20Storage%20in%20Single%20File%20TiddlyWiki
>
> We have tried to anticipate the problems that this change might cause, for 
> example working with Simon Baird to fix TiddlyHost ready for the change. 
> You can follow the technical discussions here:
>
> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/5708
>
> But now we need everyone’s help to try the new version, to help us 
> identify any incompatibilities before the final release.
>
> Please try the prerelease with as many different saving mechanisms and 
> server backends as possible. You can report any problems here, or by 
> opening a new ticket on GitHub.
>
> For me personally this feels like a big milestone. TW5 has used the same 
> DIV-based tiddler store area since the very beginning in 2011, having 
> directly inherited it from TiddlyWiki Classic. I reused the old format to 
> give TW5 compatibility with the ecosystem of tools around TiddlyWiki 
> Classic. Now that the TW5 ecosystem is so much bigger, it makes sense to 
> move to a store area format that has fewer restrictions and is easier for 
> developers to work with.
>
> Just for fun, I wrote a Node.js one-liner to extract the tiddlers from a 
> TiddlyWiki HTML file. In contrast, a few hundred lines wer

[tw5] Re: Incremental note-taking (article/discussion)

[ludwa6]

@Soren: I appreciate the nuanced understanding you bring to this topic. 

@Si: sorry if my end-of-day (i.e. tired!) response came off as dismissive.  
I have since read the subject article with due attention, and while i 
appreciate the author's perspective, i must agree w/ Soren that it is not 
generalisable to the level of how all human brains work. Tho i am no 
neuroscientist, i resonate strongly with the exceptions Soren points out, 
especially in his 2nd paragraph.  The time dimension can be a powerful key 
to recall, but so can space quite independent of time (yeah, i know: 
space/time is one dimension, but not in the human brain -this at least IS a 
generalisable principle) and other factors in our sensory apparatus -all of 
which i would lump into the category of CONTEXT. 

That's my take on one (#4) in the author's list of 4 "big ideas" for 
problem-solving in this domain.  As to the 3, i must say:

   1. "Captured ideas are better than missed ones." YES -agree strongly.
   2. "Adding new ideas is better than updating old ones."  NO -definitely 
   not for me, mate.  I'm with Gandhi on this one -and Soren, if i understand 
   him right [*]
   3. "Ideas that can’t be recalled are worse than useless."  EXACTLY! They 
   actually impede access to the useful ideas -which is why point 2 above is 
   so wrong, from my POV.
   
Note [*]:  Now from a practical perspective: Does updating notes mean we 
must sacrifice important history?  Clearly not -as various projects (Git 
diffs, Wikipedia history, Internet Archive, etc.) prove. Are such solutions 
good enough? You'll never get everyone to agree on any one as a canonical 
solution to the problem.  For my purposes: a periodic push to Github, with 
a reasonably descriptive comment after every *significant* development, is 
good enough... But that's just me.  If we're talking about 
"mission-critical" code, that's another matter, but not in the scope of 
"note-taking," i would say (tho if we're talking about lab notes that must 
eventually serve as evidence in a legal dispute over IP... Let's just not 
go there :-)

Final thought: Invoking the wisdom of Soren yet again -i.e. memory updates 
itself over time, while retaining traces- i think what we want in a 
note-taking system is not to *replicate* the human brain, but rather to 
*Augment* our intelligence.  For all the talk about AI and the existential 
risks attending to it, i'm going all-in on the idea that IA (Intelligence 
Augmentation) is the best shot we have at ensuring that the inevitable tech 
progression from narrow AI -> AGI -> "The Singularity" does not necessarily 
mean the end of humankind.  It may however mean we must reconcile ourselves 
to the idea of our progeny being post-human (whatever that means)... But, 
enough said about that for now :-)

/walt
On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 2:43:24 PM UTC+1 Soren Bjornstad wrote:

> I think the author's first principle contradicts the article: it says that 
> "good notes should behave like memory." But actual human memory is *not* 
> immutable, 
> not even close; memories are changed somewhat every time we recall them. So 
> it seems to me that a system that actually matched memory would update over 
> time, but also retain some traces of previous versions.
>
> On the topic of "time is essential to how we remember," at least for me it 
> depends on the *type* of information. If it is naturally 
> autobiographical, or there was a particularly salient moment at which I 
> learned the information, or it happened during a particular project or 
> class, sure. When the thoughts are more abstract and developing over time, 
> I absolutely cannot remember a thing about the time I had them or added to 
> them, nor is that information particularly relevant.
>
> As I recall, Ted Nelson talked about adding a time dimension to hypertext, 
> where you could easily go back and forth between different versions and see 
> exactly what has changed in a graphical manner. Google Docs and Git both 
> kind of do this, but I don't think they've figured out all the 
> possibilities here...you still have to go into a separate system to browse 
> through the different versions, and it's hard to see several at the same 
> time. The diff between versions is also probably not the best visualization 
> -- perhaps for instance a stream of different additions (as in the *inc* idea 
> the author mentions!) would be better for many types of notes. So overall, 
> this would seem like a more productive direction to me -- you can see the 
> latest state of the art, or you can quickly and easily look at previous 
> "versions", whatever makes the most sense.
>
> I do think TiddlyWiki's tools in this area are currently somewhat 
> impoverished.
>
> On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 2:18:48 PM UTC-5 Si wrote:
>
>> I just came across this post: https://thesephist.com/posts/inc/, and it 
>> challenges a lot of my own views on effective note-taking practices, so I 
>> thought it was worth sharing h

[tw5] Re: Incremental note-taking (article/discussion)

[Charlie Veniot]

You know, chewing on the concept of Incremental note-taking becomes even 
more interesting in conjunction with chewing on note taking versus note 
making 
.

The intertwingling of it all.  The interweaving of the two threads.  Kind 
of mind-blowing.  If I smoked weed, me thinks I'd light up a doobie toute 
suite and wax philosophical for the rest of the day ...

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 4:18:48 PM UTC-3 Si wrote:

> I just came across this post: https://thesephist.com/posts/inc/, and it 
> challenges a lot of my own views on effective note-taking practices, so I 
> thought it was worth sharing here.
>
> The author advocates for a kind of chronological system, where as a rule 
> notes are never updated after they are made, meaning that they retain a 
> fixed position in time. It kind of reminded me of Soren's random thoughts: 
> https://randomthoughts.sorenbjornstad.com/
>
> Anyway this approach seems completely counter to my current approach to 
> note-taking, where I want my notes to represent ideas that I am building 
> over time with little regard to where or when they originally came from.
>
> I'm not particularly convinced, but I'm curious if anyone here has any 
> thoughts? Do you see any advantages to this approach? Disadvantages? Do you 
> think it could gel with the zettelkasten philosophy, or are they polar 
> opposites?
>
> Just interested in hearing other peoples thoughts.
>

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[tw5] Re: Incremental note-taking (article/discussion)

[Charlie Veniot]

Man, if I kept every single iteration of every little thought, so that for 
every little thing I can see the path of thinking between version X and 
version Y ... way too heavy to carry all of that around.

Between the choices of all or nothing, I think I'd prefer nothing.  The 
"all" turns into information hoarding: I must keep every little thing and 
every version of that thing in case I need it someday.  Bleurk.

There are some things that may be worth keeping "milestone" versions of.  
But every version?  Maybe for some really critical things, but I can't 
imagine any such scenario for myself.

The thing with the need to keep every iteration of a note: you then kind of 
need to keep every iteration of related notes too.  Otherwise, the memory 
of that note at a particular point in time might be missing some pieces.  
Unless you keep all of the pieces in the one note, which is crappy for 
information 
componentization 

 
and totally conflicts with the philosophy and benefits of tiddlers (i.e. 
keep them suckers focused, light, agile.)

I say all of that, I don't ever get into thoughts akin to: back in 1986, 
seems to me somebody said something to me that shaped the way of thinking I 
have today.  Now where is the note that reminds me who said what and where, 
and where is the chain of notes that together shaped this silly way of 
thinking I have today.

If I really needed a perfect snapshot in time for everything, I might 
archive daily versions of entire TiddlyWiki instances.  BLEURK.

A good enough solution, to me, would involve just annotating/adorning a 
Tiddler with change log entries of significant milestone changes, little 
breadcrumbs that would remind me of what the heck I was thinking at some 
particular moment.  No way would I bother doing that for every thought.

Huh.  I re-read all of my gibberish, and I imagine a large plate of 
spaghetti and meat balls flung at a wall.  Kind of all over the place ...

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 4:18:48 PM UTC-3 Si wrote:

> I just came across this post: https://thesephist.com/posts/inc/, and it 
> challenges a lot of my own views on effective note-taking practices, so I 
> thought it was worth sharing here.
>
> The author advocates for a kind of chronological system, where as a rule 
> notes are never updated after they are made, meaning that they retain a 
> fixed position in time. It kind of reminded me of Soren's random thoughts: 
> https://randomthoughts.sorenbjornstad.com/
>
> Anyway this approach seems completely counter to my current approach to 
> note-taking, where I want my notes to represent ideas that I am building 
> over time with little regard to where or when they originally came from.
>
> I'm not particularly convinced, but I'm curious if anyone here has any 
> thoughts? Do you see any advantages to this approach? Disadvantages? Do you 
> think it could gel with the zettelkasten philosophy, or are they polar 
> opposites?
>
> Just interested in hearing other peoples thoughts.
>

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[tw5] Re: Code Patterns: A Tag Selector Gadget

[Charlie Veniot]

G'day Mike,

That little bit of magic really is the result of some fine teaching by 
Mohammad and Tones.

With advanced search in TiddlyWiki, use a filter that lists all related 
tiddlers (ie that work together to provide some 
feature/functionality/information/etc.).

Then use the export button on the advanced search tiddler to export all 
tiddlers found by the filter to a handy-dandy JSON file that has all the 
tiddlers packaged up neatly.  That one file can then be dragged for import 
into some other TiddlyWiki, and all tiddlers in that JSON file get 
"extracted".

In my mind: Very cool for simple things that don't really need all of the 
oomph/heft of a plugin.

Screenshot below.  *(The export button is the one between the X and the 
garbage can.)*

Cheers !

[image: Screenshot 2021-07-16 11.20.23 AM - Display 1.png]

On Friday, July 16, 2021 at 10:58:05 AM UTC-3 miket...@gmail.com wrote:

> cj.v...
> How did you export the required tiddlers in one file?
>
> четверг, 15 июля 2021 г. в 11:31:13 UTC+3, TW Tones: 
>
>> Charlie,
>>
>> I like your large tag selector, and see similar smaller ones filtered or 
>> from a separate list would be more than enough. Yes this customisation is 
>> person and wiki specific.
>>
>> Sorry about that little comment. But as much as I don't want to cause 
>> trouble, I wanted you to know I relay appreciate your work when its more 
>> accessible, In line rather than attached is just as good. I actually find 
>> the image attachment more work myself. But whatever you want. :)
>>
>> Tones
>>
>> On Thursday, 15 July 2021 at 12:10:06 UTC+10 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Well, choice of filtering mechanism to reduce the number tags, that's 
>>> kind of hard to setup in a way that suits everybody.
>>>
>>> Probably best to let each individual customize this basic code with the 
>>> kind of filters (cosmetics, etc.) that work for her/him.
>>>
>>> I did the parts that were fun to do on my free time.  The rest is for 
>>> somebody else, although I'll build anything for anybody for the right 
>>> price...
>>>
>>> Aside:  Sharing code as attachments versus images (usually with a link 
>>> to working code in hosted TiddlyWiki) is hit and miss with me.  I wish you 
>>> had not brought attention to it.  It is a bit of a reminder about a 
>>> standard that I don't always have the energy to achieve.  A simple "Thanks 
>>> for sharing" (minus the other bit) would have been pretty sweet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 10:02:05 PM UTC-3 TW Tones wrote:
>>>
 Charlie,

 I like the idea here. To me however the strength would be in providing 
 a filter to the tag selection. Perhaps have a set. for example if tagged 
 todo provide a drop down of status tags.

 This would simplify wiki with a lot of tags as discussed here 
 

 I tested you JSON on tiddlywiki.com and the multi-colum effect was not 
 there

 Thanks for sharing (code rather than images).
 Tones

 On Thursday, 15 July 2021 at 08:57:53 UTC+10 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:

> Yeah, I never make pretty until general concept is iron-clad, and only 
> if it is worth it (i.e. if nobody likes the general approach, why would I 
> waste my time with prettiness?  I'm quirky that way ...)
>
> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 7:51:03 PM UTC-3 miket...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Very good! We need to test it. But for the button it is better to use 
>> the standard code for checking the text and icon options, otherwise it 
>> looks very strange so far!
>> https://i.imgur.com/sQjbYob.jpg
>>
>> <$button tooltip="" aria-label="" class=<>>
>> *<$list filter="[match[yes]]">*
>> {{$:/my/images/storyview-classic}}
>> 
>> *<$list filter="[match[yes]]">*
>> <$text text="" />
>> 
>> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler"
>> 
>> среда, 14 июля 2021 г. в 17:48:24 UTC+3, cj.v...@gmail.com: 
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> *(Attached JSON package with necessary tiddlers below.  Drag and 
>>> drop into a TEST TiddlyWiki to try it out and experiment with.)*
>>>
>>> I've been monitoring the How to make a more convenient method for 
>>> selecting tags? 
>>> , and I 
>>> suddenly had a coding itch I had to scratch.  So an hour later, a very 
>>> bare-bones foundation for potential snazzy GUI for editing/selecting a 
>>> tiddler's tags .
>>>
>>> Fun TiddlyWiki things in this gadget:
>>>
>>>- setup of custom buttons for tiddler "View Toolbar"
>>>   - mechanism, I think, is the same for setting up a buttons 
>>>   for tiddler "Edit Toolbar"
>>>- CSS for presenting a list as multicol, number of columns based 
>>>on width of display area
>>>- a use-case for TiddlyWiki modals
>>>- filter example:

[tw5] Re: Code Patterns: A Tag Selector Gadget

[Mike Andyl]

 cj.v...
How did you export the required tiddlers in one file?

четверг, 15 июля 2021 г. в 11:31:13 UTC+3, TW Tones: 

> Charlie,
>
> I like your large tag selector, and see similar smaller ones filtered or 
> from a separate list would be more than enough. Yes this customisation is 
> person and wiki specific.
>
> Sorry about that little comment. But as much as I don't want to cause 
> trouble, I wanted you to know I relay appreciate your work when its more 
> accessible, In line rather than attached is just as good. I actually find 
> the image attachment more work myself. But whatever you want. :)
>
> Tones
>
> On Thursday, 15 July 2021 at 12:10:06 UTC+10 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Well, choice of filtering mechanism to reduce the number tags, that's 
>> kind of hard to setup in a way that suits everybody.
>>
>> Probably best to let each individual customize this basic code with the 
>> kind of filters (cosmetics, etc.) that work for her/him.
>>
>> I did the parts that were fun to do on my free time.  The rest is for 
>> somebody else, although I'll build anything for anybody for the right 
>> price...
>>
>> Aside:  Sharing code as attachments versus images (usually with a link to 
>> working code in hosted TiddlyWiki) is hit and miss with me.  I wish you had 
>> not brought attention to it.  It is a bit of a reminder about a standard 
>> that I don't always have the energy to achieve.  A simple "Thanks for 
>> sharing" (minus the other bit) would have been pretty sweet.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 10:02:05 PM UTC-3 TW Tones wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie,
>>>
>>> I like the idea here. To me however the strength would be in providing a 
>>> filter to the tag selection. Perhaps have a set. for example if tagged todo 
>>> provide a drop down of status tags.
>>>
>>> This would simplify wiki with a lot of tags as discussed here 
>>> 
>>>
>>> I tested you JSON on tiddlywiki.com and the multi-colum effect was not 
>>> there
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing (code rather than images).
>>> Tones
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 15 July 2021 at 08:57:53 UTC+10 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, I never make pretty until general concept is iron-clad, and only 
 if it is worth it (i.e. if nobody likes the general approach, why would I 
 waste my time with prettiness?  I'm quirky that way ...)

 On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 7:51:03 PM UTC-3 miket...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Very good! We need to test it. But for the button it is better to use 
> the standard code for checking the text and icon options, otherwise it 
> looks very strange so far!
> https://i.imgur.com/sQjbYob.jpg
>
> <$button tooltip="" aria-label="" class=<>>
> *<$list filter="[match[yes]]">*
> {{$:/my/images/storyview-classic}}
> 
> *<$list filter="[match[yes]]">*
> <$text text="" />
> 
> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler"
> 
> среда, 14 июля 2021 г. в 17:48:24 UTC+3, cj.v...@gmail.com: 
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> *(Attached JSON package with necessary tiddlers below.  Drag and drop 
>> into a TEST TiddlyWiki to try it out and experiment with.)*
>>
>> I've been monitoring the How to make a more convenient method for 
>> selecting tags? 
>> , and I 
>> suddenly had a coding itch I had to scratch.  So an hour later, a very 
>> bare-bones foundation for potential snazzy GUI for editing/selecting a 
>> tiddler's tags .
>>
>> Fun TiddlyWiki things in this gadget:
>>
>>- setup of custom buttons for tiddler "View Toolbar"
>>   - mechanism, I think, is the same for setting up a buttons for 
>>   tiddler "Edit Toolbar"
>>- CSS for presenting a list as multicol, number of columns based 
>>on width of display area
>>- a use-case for TiddlyWiki modals
>>- filter example: how to get all tags in a TiddlyWiki
>>- the quick and easy use of checkbox widget for 
>>selecting/unselecting tags for a tiddler
>>
>> Cheers !
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Incremental note-taking (article/discussion)

[Soren Bjornstad]

I think the author's first principle contradicts the article: it says that 
"good notes should behave like memory." But actual human memory is *not* 
immutable, 
not even close; memories are changed somewhat every time we recall them. So 
it seems to me that a system that actually matched memory would update over 
time, but also retain some traces of previous versions.

On the topic of "time is essential to how we remember," at least for me it 
depends on the *type* of information. If it is naturally autobiographical, 
or there was a particularly salient moment at which I learned the 
information, or it happened during a particular project or class, sure. 
When the thoughts are more abstract and developing over time, I absolutely 
cannot remember a thing about the time I had them or added to them, nor is 
that information particularly relevant.

As I recall, Ted Nelson talked about adding a time dimension to hypertext, 
where you could easily go back and forth between different versions and see 
exactly what has changed in a graphical manner. Google Docs and Git both 
kind of do this, but I don't think they've figured out all the 
possibilities here...you still have to go into a separate system to browse 
through the different versions, and it's hard to see several at the same 
time. The diff between versions is also probably not the best visualization 
-- perhaps for instance a stream of different additions (as in the *inc* idea 
the author mentions!) would be better for many types of notes. So overall, 
this would seem like a more productive direction to me -- you can see the 
latest state of the art, or you can quickly and easily look at previous 
"versions", whatever makes the most sense.

I do think TiddlyWiki's tools in this area are currently somewhat 
impoverished.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 2:18:48 PM UTC-5 Si wrote:

> I just came across this post: https://thesephist.com/posts/inc/, and it 
> challenges a lot of my own views on effective note-taking practices, so I 
> thought it was worth sharing here.
>
> The author advocates for a kind of chronological system, where as a rule 
> notes are never updated after they are made, meaning that they retain a 
> fixed position in time. It kind of reminded me of Soren's random thoughts: 
> https://randomthoughts.sorenbjornstad.com/
>
> Anyway this approach seems completely counter to my current approach to 
> note-taking, where I want my notes to represent ideas that I am building 
> over time with little regard to where or when they originally came from.
>
> I'm not particularly convinced, but I'm curious if anyone here has any 
> thoughts? Do you see any advantages to this approach? Disadvantages? Do you 
> think it could gel with the zettelkasten philosophy, or are they polar 
> opposites?
>
> Just interested in hearing other peoples thoughts.
>

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[tw5] Re: How to make a default field for a new record?

[Mike Andyl]

 But the last question

** From the URL EditTemplate tiddler view, click on the 
"$:/tags/EditTemplate" tag pill*
** In the list of EditTemplate definitions, drag-and-drop to move the URL 
EditTemplate above "$:/core/ui/EditTemplate/fields"*

Where is the sort order stored? I thought in field *list *or 
*list-before/after,* but did not find it anywhere.

пятница, 16 июля 2021 г. в 15:31:14 UTC+3, Mike Andyl: 

> Thanks a lot for the tips, they are all good and each has its own bonuses! 
> Now I need to choose the best one for myself :) Very useful and learned a 
> lot about the work of TW.
>
> пятница, 16 июля 2021 г. в 12:11:23 UTC+3, Álvaro: 
>
>> Yes, you are right. I thought in the my usual way to create new records, 
>> I don't usualy use new journal or new image.
>>
>> Then we can use a hack in $:/core/ui/EditTemplate/fields which displays 
>> a fake(/"empty") url field, we don't have a real url field until you type 
>> and save its value.
>>
>> The hack would be:
>>
>> 
>> > :filter[lookup[$:/config/EditTemplateFields/Visibility/]!match[hide]] 
>> +[count[]!match[0]] +[then[tc-edit-fields]] ~[[tc-edit-fields 
>> tc-edit-fields-small]] }}}>
>> 
>> <$list filter="[all[current]fields[]] +[sort[title]]" 
>> variable="currentField" storyview="pop">
>> to
>> <$list filter="[all[current]fields[]] *[[url]]* +[sort[title]]" 
>> variable="currentField" storyview="pop"> 
>>
>>
>> El viernes, 16 de julio de 2021 a las 6:04:57 UTC+2, Eric Shulman 
>> escribió:
>>
>>> On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 6:25:29 PM UTC-7 Álvaro wrote:
>>>
 Yes, because I focused on explaining the problem. The base of the 
 solution is  *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" url="" />*

>>> The hard version is modifing the action-sendmessage in the tiddler 
 *$:/core/ui/Actions/new-tiddler*
 *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" tags=<>/>*
 to
 *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" tags=<> 
 url=""/>*

>>>
>>> Once again, I have to point out that this only changes the behavior of 
>>> the "New Tiddler" button and *does not fully address the OP goal* *(*"*the 
>>> url field to be always visible from the start for all new records.")*
>>>
>>> There are *at least 6 other ways* to interactively create another 
>>> tiddler:
>>> * New Journal in the Sidebar
>>> * New Image in the Sidebar
>>> * New Here in the Tiddler Menu
>>> * New Journal Here in the Tiddler Menu
>>> * Follow a link to a missing tiddler, and then edit that tiddler
>>> * Any 3rd-party plugin or hand-written custom wikitext that contains a 
>>> $button using "tm-new-tiddler", 
>>>
>>> The only solution that handles all these cases (and any others that I 
>>> haven't thought of at the moment) is to modify the EditTemplate as 
>>> suggested by Brian Radspinner, with the small UI improvements suggested by 
>>> me to remove the duplicate appearance of the "url" field, position it above 
>>> the "create new field" interface in the tiddler editor, and enable use of 
>>> $:/config/EditTemplateFields/Visibility/URL
>>>
>>> respectfully,
>>> -e
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Just the UI of tiddlywiki

[ludwa6]

@PMario: just to say thanks (again!) for sharing another treasure of the TW 
world -TiddlyWeb API Explorer 
 in this case. 
As per my post to this other thread 
,  it opened my eyes 
to the possibility of an OpenAPI Explorer in TW -and i'd love to know what 
you think about that, either in that other thread or via DM (this one's 
really not about that).

On this topic, i can only say: i share Xavier's interest in the idea of 
connecting TW as front end to a backend server with muli-user / multi-edit 
capability.  Of course that old problem of edit conflict avoidance/ 
resolution would need to be solved, but i have trouble accepting that as a 
real stopper in this day&age -although from what i gather (from email 
exchange with dev Chris Dent), TiddlyWeb is not likely to be the place 
where such functionality will emerge.   If there be some other place to 
look for solutions, it'd be great if someone could share info about that 
here!

/walt


On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:51:49 PM UTC+1 PMario wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:38:46 PM UTC+2 somen...@gmail.com wrote:
> ...
>
>> I will look into the code but it's a pitty to be TW2. Perhaps someone 
>> could point to me where is the code of the UI in the code of official 
>> tiddlywiki5. 
>>
>
> Hi Xavier,
>
> I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding how TiddlyWiki works. ... 
> TiddlyWiki is a self-contained single file wiki. ... No server is needed 
> other than for serving a 
> single file resource. 
>
> TLDR;
> I think it would be good, if you explain a bit closer what you want to do. 
>
> --
>
> If you open tiddlywiki.com it's served from a github page as a single 
> 6MByte index.html file. ... Since github does server side compression only 
> about 2Mbyte are sent to the client. 
>
> Everything you see UI wise is rendered on the client. ... It would be the 
> same experience if I would send you myWiki.hmtl by e-mail. 
>
> If I "permalink" to eg: https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelloThere  the browser 
> will open the HelloThere tiddler, because the whole content is already in 
> the client. No server is involved, the core code "catches" the URI fragment 
> and displays the tiddler.
>
> -
>
> A TiddlyWeb server will also "only" create a single resource if you 
> request https: //your-uri/index.html ... It will build the html file server 
> side and send it as 1 file, that contains code, UI and data to the client. 
>
> The advantage of TiddlyWeb is, that you also have some API routes that 
> will let you request recipes, bags and single tiddlers, without any TW UI 
> as text or JSON. There is a query language with which you can do server 
> side search. 
>
> The TW UI is about 2100 elements. If you download empty.html form 
> tiddlywiki.com you can open the *$:/ControlPanel : Info : Basic* : tab 
> and have a look a the "*Number of shadow tiddlers*": 2088 ... Most of 
> them are responsible for the TW js core and UI. The whole TW UI is built 
> using TW wikitext and tiddlers. 
>
> -mario
>

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[tw5] Re: How to make a default field for a new record?

[Mike Andyl]

Thanks a lot for the tips, they are all good and each has its own bonuses! 
Now I need to choose the best one for myself :) Very useful and learned a 
lot about the work of TW.

пятница, 16 июля 2021 г. в 12:11:23 UTC+3, Álvaro: 

> Yes, you are right. I thought in the my usual way to create new records, I 
> don't usualy use new journal or new image.
>
> Then we can use a hack in $:/core/ui/EditTemplate/fields which displays a 
> fake(/"empty") url field, we don't have a real url field until you type and 
> save its value.
>
> The hack would be:
>
> 
>  :filter[lookup[$:/config/EditTemplateFields/Visibility/]!match[hide]] 
> +[count[]!match[0]] +[then[tc-edit-fields]] ~[[tc-edit-fields 
> tc-edit-fields-small]] }}}>
> 
> <$list filter="[all[current]fields[]] +[sort[title]]" 
> variable="currentField" storyview="pop">
> to
> <$list filter="[all[current]fields[]] *[[url]]* +[sort[title]]" 
> variable="currentField" storyview="pop"> 
>
>
> El viernes, 16 de julio de 2021 a las 6:04:57 UTC+2, Eric Shulman escribió:
>
>> On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 6:25:29 PM UTC-7 Álvaro wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, because I focused on explaining the problem. The base of the 
>>> solution is  *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" url="" />*
>>>
>> The hard version is modifing the action-sendmessage in the tiddler 
>>> *$:/core/ui/Actions/new-tiddler*
>>> *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" tags=<>/>*
>>> to
>>> *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" tags=<> 
>>> url=""/>*
>>>
>>
>> Once again, I have to point out that this only changes the behavior of 
>> the "New Tiddler" button and *does not fully address the OP goal* *(*"*the 
>> url field to be always visible from the start for all new records.")*
>>
>> There are *at least 6 other ways* to interactively create another 
>> tiddler:
>> * New Journal in the Sidebar
>> * New Image in the Sidebar
>> * New Here in the Tiddler Menu
>> * New Journal Here in the Tiddler Menu
>> * Follow a link to a missing tiddler, and then edit that tiddler
>> * Any 3rd-party plugin or hand-written custom wikitext that contains a 
>> $button using "tm-new-tiddler", 
>>
>> The only solution that handles all these cases (and any others that I 
>> haven't thought of at the moment) is to modify the EditTemplate as 
>> suggested by Brian Radspinner, with the small UI improvements suggested by 
>> me to remove the duplicate appearance of the "url" field, position it above 
>> the "create new field" interface in the tiddler editor, and enable use of 
>> $:/config/EditTemplateFields/Visibility/URL
>>
>> respectfully,
>> -e
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: How to make a default field for a new record?

[Álvaro]

Yes, you are right. I thought in the my usual way to create new records, I 
don't usualy use new journal or new image.

Then we can use a hack in $:/core/ui/EditTemplate/fields which displays a 
fake(/"empty") url field, we don't have a real url field until you type and 
save its value.

The hack would be:




<$list filter="[all[current]fields[]] +[sort[title]]" 
variable="currentField" storyview="pop">
to
<$list filter="[all[current]fields[]] *[[url]]* +[sort[title]]" 
variable="currentField" storyview="pop"> 


El viernes, 16 de julio de 2021 a las 6:04:57 UTC+2, Eric Shulman escribió:

> On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 6:25:29 PM UTC-7 Álvaro wrote:
>
>> Yes, because I focused on explaining the problem. The base of the 
>> solution is  *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" url="" />*
>>
> The hard version is modifing the action-sendmessage in the tiddler 
>> *$:/core/ui/Actions/new-tiddler*
>> *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" tags=<>/>*
>> to
>> *<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" tags=<> 
>> url=""/>*
>>
>
> Once again, I have to point out that this only changes the behavior of the 
> "New Tiddler" button and *does not fully address the OP goal* *(*"*the 
> url field to be always visible from the start for all new records.")*
>
> There are *at least 6 other ways* to interactively create another tiddler:
> * New Journal in the Sidebar
> * New Image in the Sidebar
> * New Here in the Tiddler Menu
> * New Journal Here in the Tiddler Menu
> * Follow a link to a missing tiddler, and then edit that tiddler
> * Any 3rd-party plugin or hand-written custom wikitext that contains a 
> $button using "tm-new-tiddler", 
>
> The only solution that handles all these cases (and any others that I 
> haven't thought of at the moment) is to modify the EditTemplate as 
> suggested by Brian Radspinner, with the small UI improvements suggested by 
> me to remove the duplicate appearance of the "url" field, position it above 
> the "create new field" interface in the tiddler editor, and enable use of 
> $:/config/EditTemplateFields/Visibility/URL
>
> respectfully,
> -e
>

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[tw5] Re: MS Teams / one drive

[tony]

Tones is spot on with simply renaming the empty.html to empty.aspx 

It  just works, years on, Office 365 OneDrive complete with version history 
and tw encryption.  Kind of magical!

Best,
tony 

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 4:37:28 PM UTC-7 TW Tones wrote:

> Mohamed,
>
> I have not tried teams/one drive, but I have used it in SharePoint so some 
> of the techniques may help. Rename the single file wiki html to .aspx and 
> use the check in and out facilities in SharePoint to ensure serial editing 
> only. You can make it until checked in users see the previous version. 
>
>

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[tw5] Re: [Seeking Ideas] Issues with a TW in four languages ...

[TiddlyTweeter]

UPDATE ... thanks all, as well as Jeremy in another thraed, for your 
comments, all of which were helpful.

Just FYI, I asked around locall (North East Italian) art people, who are 
the major target.
I became very clear that most of them are at least bilingual. 
SOME of them would want all four languages showing since it would help them 
understand what the particular painting is about.

SO, my current thinking is to use TW REVEALS, or maybe CSS hiding, to only 
show ONE language IF the user presses a language flag. 
Otherwise captions would be shown in all four languages.

Best wishes
TT


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Re: [tw5] Re: An interactive questionnaire in TiddlyWiki

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy

Thanks for that! It helps clarify what I am trying to do!

I will post an update note in the original thread about how I look at the 
issue now.

Best wishes
TT

On Thursday, 15 July 2021 at 10:39:57 UTC+2 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi TT
>
> Thank you – I was hoping you might find the translation mechanism 
> interesting too, does it fit your needs discussed in that other thread?
>
> You can try out the translation mechanism in the demo by switching the 
> language to "Spanish" in the sidebar tab; you'll get gobbledegook that 
> isn't Spanish, but it illustrates the difference. (Note that in the demo 
> only the UI is translated, the questions themselves there are only in 
> English).
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
> Very interesting to see! Thanks.
> I ran through the whole thing and completed all questions. It is a 
> seriously real application! :-)
>
> As a side note: The Anna Freud people designed the questions really well. 
> It is extremely difficult to design such questionnaires in a way that makes 
> sense in normal English AND can produce operational,  quantitative, 
> meaningful, results.  Hats off to them!
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
> On Wednesday, 14 July 2021 at 12:46:02 UTC+2 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I’ve recently completed a small project for the Anna Freud National 
>> Centre for Children and Families in London (see https://annafreud.org/) 
>> to make an interactive questionnaire that has some interesting features:
>>
>>
>>- Fairly sophisticated scoring of the answers to multiple choice 
>>questions
>>- Generating spreadsheet files that can be downloaded and opened in 
>>Excel, and .DOC files that open in Microsoft Word
>>- Copying spreadsheet data to the clipboard for pasting directly into 
>>Excel
>>
>>
>> In its current form, the questionnaire is not directly reusable for other 
>> purposes, but I hope some of the techniques will prove useful to others.
>>
>> The context for this work is that the AFNCCF trains teams of care workers 
>> in Britain and around the world to work with the most troubled, hard to 
>> reach young people and their families.  For more than a decade, they have 
>> been working on the Adolescent Integrative Measure (AIM) to help care 
>> workers make a systematic, objective record of the problems affecting a 
>> particular young person, and to make suggestions of the interventions that 
>> are indicated by the answers. By repeating the questionnaire after an 
>> interval of months, workers can track a young persons progress. For the 
>> last few years, the questionnaire has been filled out on paper but there 
>> has long been a desire to simplify the process by moving it online.
>>
>> You can try out the questionnaire in a demo here:
>>
>> https://federatial.github.io/afnccf-aim-questionnaire/
>>
>> You can also see the questionnaire in AFNNCF's own site here:
>>
>> https://manuals.annafreud.org/ambit/#AIM%20Questionnaire
>>
>> The code is on GitHub:
>>
>> https://github.com/Federatial/afnccf-aim-questionnaire
>>
>> AIM is a series of multiple choice questions that measure the severity of 
>> a particular problem. The spectrum of responses is a heartbreaking reminder 
>> of the difficulties that young people can go through, and I’m very happy 
>> that our collective work on TiddlyWiki is helping people help people in 
>> these situations.
>>
>>
>> Workers can also mark up to 6 of the questions as being “key problems” to 
>> indicate that they need particular attention:
>>
>>
>>
>> There is a simple visualisation of progress through the questionnaire as 
>> questions are answered:
>>
>>
>> The questions are presented sequentially, with “next” and “previous” 
>> buttons to move between them, and a dropdown that enables jumping directly 
>> to a particular question. It also provides feedback of which questions have 
>> been completed, and which have been marked as key problems:
>>
>>
>> Until all the questions are answered, the results are blocked:
>>
>>
>> Note that if you scroll down you’ll find a button that answers all the 
>> questions instantly, making it easier to see the results.
>>
>>
>> Once all the questions have been answered, the results are displayed in 
>> several different tabs:
>>
>>
>>- *Focal*: Each suggested intervention is ranked in order of 
>>how severe the set of problems are (their averaged AIM scores) that 
>>indicate that particular intervention. This is good for focusing on the 
>>most severe problems
>>- *Global*: Each suggested intervention is ranked according to how 
>>many different problems (that is AIM items scoring greater than 2) the 
>>young person has which that particular intervention is relevant for. This 
>>is good for covering the whole set of problems and causes
>>- *Limit*: Limit suggested interventions only to those relevant for 
>>items identified as key problems
>>
>>
>> The underlying calculations are probably the most complex that I have