Re: [time-nuts] LORAN C antenna thoughts from the group

[Bill Janssen]

paul swed wrote:

OK now that I can actually receive the 90070 chain in the US. What might be
a better antenna then my whip and preamp?
A big loop and preamp? A tall vertical over a ground plane. Tried 67 ft that
yielded little. How might reception be improved in the US?
Thanks
Paul
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

  

Do a Google search for a Beverage Antenna. If you have room for it.

Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Possibly OT - Any interest in a vintage HP/Dymec DY-5842 VLF receiver?

[Bill Janssen]

paul swed wrote:

An update. Indeed its working very well now. Easily at -88dbm. Its quite
interesting in the fact that if you set the Local oscillator exactly at 160
KC which today is easy to do, you actually have mis-adjusted it. It dawned
on me this morning that since its a freq LO add and then subtract scheme.
That you actually adjust it for peak signal through the 100KC IF.
Essentially disregarding slight literal offsets. (This is the same approach
some navy receivers use back in the 70s, and some older ham equipment.)
The unit cleaned up very well though still have some tape glue to remove and
label gunk from stickers.
The biggest challenge is gently pulling the meter out and removing the
peeling needle paint thats jamming the needle. No coffee during that
exercise.
Regards
Paul.
  
I have had some success with putting the meter scale back down with 
water. It seems on some meters
that the scale was a decal that had a water based glue. I used a tooth 
pick to put a drop of water under
the part that was lifted and the used the tooth pick to smooth the scale 
back in place.


Bill K7NOM

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 1:09 AM, Paul Davis  wrote:

  

In case anyone was wondering, the receiver has found a home with Paul,
WB8TSL. He tells me he's got it receiving WWVB already. It will need a
little TLC, but it was good to see its basic functionality confirmed.

I've posted the scanned copy of the manual on my website at <
http://www.pumpkinbrook.com/DY-5842/> for those that are interested.

Thanks for the interest, and the replies.

Paul - K9MR


On Oct 2, 2010, at 2:40 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

 Ken would be a great person. THe HP Memory project would be another


http://www.hpmemory.org/index.htm

-pete

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Brian Kirby 
wrote:

  

You might consider contacting Dr. Ken Kuhn  --  kennathak...@gmail.com

check his HP museum at http://www.kennethkuhn.com/hpmuseum/

Brian Kirby KD4FM



On 10/1/2010 5:34 PM, ziggy9 wrote:



Fellow time-nuts:
I've got a circa 1964 DY-5842 VLF receiver. This is (was) operated in
conjunction with an external time interval counter to make a frequency
comparison. So you would select WWVL for example, and use that as your
primary standard for comparison to your local standard. It's got 5
crystals
in it: 16, 18, 19.8, 20, and 60 kHz (listed as GBR, NBA, NPM, WWVL,
WWVB).
It works and I have the manual. The thing is, the interest in something
like this is bound to be a bit narrow, so I thought I'd mention it here.

So if there are any collectors, equipment museums, etc. that might be
interested in this, please let me know. I'm a bit sentimental about this
thing, it's sort of a bit of history, and from what I can tell, somewhat
rare (doesnt make it worth anything though :). Since it's a bit of a
curiosity, I'd like to pass it to someone that might be interested in it
rather than just tossing it. I can always provide more details to anyone
that wants them.

Best regards,
Paul Davis - K9MR


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


  

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.




___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


  

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

  



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] GPS backup for the stationary time and frequencyuser

[Bill Janssen]

Magnus Danielson wrote:

On 10/08/2010 03:35 AM, jmfranke wrote:

When I said the feed would work, I was meaning it would work if LHC.
The illustrations and text imply you could just place a normal GPS
receiver at the feed location, but the polarization would be wrong.


Which was what I reacted on...

I am by no means a practical antenna expert, and the EM-theory is a 
bit fuzzy on the edges, but I do distinctly recall that signal is RHC 
and reflections becomes LHC so an antenna with RHC orientation will 
provide some first-degree damping of the LHC reflections. For this 
antenna setup the intended RHC signal is reflected and should become 
LHC... just as the interference... so it relies on the antenna gain of 
the dish to out-perform the other reflections for the half-space 
receiver that a normal GPS antenna is. The choke ring for a dish head 
has a distinct different pattern (forming an inner cone rather than 
flat space).


So, a normal antenna would kind of work since the antenna gain would 
overcome the poor LHC supression of a simple RHC antenna... yay.


If an LHC antenna was used instead... now we are talking.

Cheers,
Magnus
So a dish reflector and a sub reflector and the GPS receiver at the dish 
would work? What is that

configuration called? I can't remember at this early hour.


Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Poor man's choke ring

[Bill Janssen]

Robert Atkinson wrote:

You beat me to it Bruce!
They call it a Stealth(tm) Ground Plane. It's used in the Zephyr Geodetic 2 
antenna.
See 
http://www.trimble.com/infrastructure/pdf/gnss-choke-ring-antenna_brochure.pdf
"proper" attenator materials (Eccosorb by Emerson & Cuming and I think Grace make some) are expensive, but I've had some luck with carbon loaded anti-static foam in the past. I've used it to kill enclosure resonaces for EMC and at around 4GHz to reduce skin leakage and ground reflections when testing aircraft radio altimeters on the ground.   
 
Robert G8RPI
  
I have used Carbon fiber fabric from the hobby shop and I have used 
rubber from tires found along the road.

This is at 10 GHz so I don't know how it would work at 1.5 GHz

Bill K7NOM


--- On Thu, 25/3/10, Bruce Griffiths  wrote:


From: Bruce Griffiths 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Poor man's choke ring
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
Date: Thursday, 25 March, 2010, 1:18


Neville Michie wrote:
  

If I understand the choke ring antenna it is to remove signals propagating 
across the ground plane.
Now if there was a very lossy layer on the ground plane any signals propagating 
across it would be attenuated.
For instance, if you find a plastic that melts in your microwave, a sheet of 
that plastic over your ground plane should work.
Or do plastics that attenuate enough not exist?

cheers, Neville Michie



Trimble produce an antenna with a dissipative ground plane.

Bruce


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.



  
___

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

  



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] NMEA Time

[Bill Janssen]

paul swed wrote:

Sorry no idea.
It will however be offset from time if your source encodes rs232 and then
you decode it...
Easy way for everyone with a short wave receiver and scope would be to
measure the tick on 1 channel and if I recall the pulse out or you can also
look for the IRIGB leading data. As I recall its fixed and you can see it as
a pattern
But adding a server and etc I am sure its close to 1 second.
Just did not have a need to get that detailed.
I run gps connected to a pic that drives a home brew irigb gen and that
drives numbers of decoders.
The pic does several things. It extracts the time from gps and then
calculates the proper time to acount for the irigb encoder delay.
Essentially I output the next second ahead of 0 time.
Liked all of this pretty well and did essentially the same trick with a
smpte tc generator using jam sync. Works very well. I jam every 10 minutes
so that its always on time. If power fails I jam as soon as things are
stable within 10 seconds.
  
Are the PIC and irigb encoder written up any place. I have a couple of 
GPS receivers and
an irig display and I would like to connect them. Been meaning to build 
an irig encoder myself.


Bill K7NOM



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] backup to GPS after jan 2010, was: OT - GPS and North

[Bill Janssen]

Hal Murray wrote:

stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com said:
  

Further if at least one cell site has a accurate clock how far could
it be repeated before it lost it's useful accuracy using the CDMA
signal as in : 



I think there are two cases.

The first is if the GPS receiver on a single site breaks, I think it would be 
reasonable to have that site lock on to it's neighbors.


The second case is when GPS dies so that all CMDA sites need to coordinate 
time without help from GPS.  Chains of PLLs are tricky.  If they didn't need 
GPS they probably wouldn't have used it to begin with.


I think you could do it if each site had a rubidium or something that was 
stable enough.  I don't know what "enough" means.  I think the key idea is 
something like the time constants for distributing the information have to be 
much faster than the time constant for tweaking the local clock.  That is all 
the sites have to agree on what to do and understand where they fit into the 
plan.


Early SONET ran into troubles with chains of PLLs.  I forget the details if I 
ever knew them.  I think they got the time constants wrong and ended up 
amplifying noise in a certain band rather than filtering it out.


If you told me the stability of the local clock and the round trip times to 
adjacent cells and how much bandwidth I could use and such, I could probably 
come up with a stable algorithm and tell you how far and/or how many hops it 
would work over.


  
I think that the site to site communications are via digital systems. 
All digital systems I know of
use buffers on the transmitting end and on the receiving end. So the 
time delay between sites can
vary depending on the buffer fill. The average frequency is controlled 
to tight limits but the time
delay can vary. So time transfer is not feasible without doing a delay 
measurement which takes

cooperation between the sites.

Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5328 PSU nightmare...

[Bill Janssen]

J. Forster wrote:

With tube gear, one fairly good way to reform the caps is either pull the
tubes (label where they came from) or disconnect the filament supply, and
then apply B+. You do need to check the schematic to make sure you don't
overvoltage caps that would see an increased voltage w/o plate current.
Also, cathode bypass caps may never see the reforming voltage.
  
Good advice, but leave the rectifiers (80, 5Y3, 5U4 etc.) in their 
sockets :-)


Bill K7NOM


For solid state equipment, the light bulb thing will limit collateral
damage on simple rectifier-filter analog supplies. Switchers are more
problematic.

-John

=





  

And vacuum tube equipment using indirectly-heated cathodes:
http://www.cpii.com/docs/related/23/Basic%20Tube%20Design.pdf

"Operating techniques that are proper for filamentary tubes are not
necessarily
correct for tubes with indirectly heated cathode emitters. In
particular, the opera-
tion of cathode types at reduced heater voltage can be destructive to
the tube."

Leigh.

Mark Sims wrote:


Be very careful powering up modern equipment on variacs and with light
bulbs in series, etc.  You go through areas where the bias voltages, etc
are in  the right place to cause serious damage.  Switching supplies can
be particularly entertaining...





  

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.







___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

  



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] EZGPIB & delay triggers

[Bill Janssen]

Ulrich Bangert wrote:

Bill,

there are two "sleep" commands:

1) Procedure EZGPIB_TimeSleep(HowLong:Double)

2) Procedure EZGPIB_TimeWaitForMultipleOf(Seconds:LongWord)

where Howlong is in seconds and starts immediately after call. The second
one is for you if you want to keep something synchronized to the computer's
clock. EZGPIB_TimeWaitForMultipleOf(10) will sleep up to second 10, 20, 30,
50, 0 whatever is the closest. EZGPIB_TimeWaitForMultipleOf(60) will wait up
to the start of the next minute.

  
I am trying to use EZGPIB with a HP 5370A and I want to trigger a 
reading on a 10 to 30 second interval.
I want the use EZGPIB to do long term comparisons of various 
oscillators, I am not interested (at this time)

on jitter less than tau < 1 seconds or so



I fear, that THIS not only a matter of sleeping! Please explain your
experiment more in detail. Are you doing frequency or phase measurements?

73s de Ulrich, DF6JB

  
I am using the 5370 for time interval measurements to compare zero 
crossings from the two oscillators.
I want to see what the stability is over twenty four hours. I have two 
GPSDO's and a rubidium and three
"good" quartz oscillators. I suspect that the Z3801 is drifting due to 
temperature changes


I want to sample the phase difference at a known rate so that I can plot 
the differences with out getting

a data file thats too big..




  

-Ursprungliche Nachricht-
Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Bill

Gesendet: Montag, 13. Juli 2009 04:31
An: time-nuts
Betreff: [time-nuts] EZGPIB & delay triggers


I am trying to use EZGPIB with a HP 5370A and I want to trigger a 
reading on a 10 to 30 second interval.
I want the use EZGPIB to do long term comparisons of various 
oscillators, I am not interested (at this time)

on jitter less than tau < 1 seconds or so

My question is what is the PASCAL code to delay between 
readings. I am 
running Windows XP if

that makes a difference.

I don't have a book (yet) on PASCAL and I am not a programmer. I have 
EZGPIB displaying readings but at

what seems to be a random rate

Thanks
Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

and follow the instructions there.




___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

  



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] state of the art divide by ten - UPDATE

[Bill Janssen]

David C. Partridge wrote:
> I don't have any more PCBs left for the frequency divider I did last year,
> but if there's enough interest, I can get another batch made up.  All
> outputs re-clocked to input using FF before final line driver stage.
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Bill Janssen
> Sent: 30 March 2009 04:29
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: [time-nuts] state of the art devide by ten
>
> I want to construct a divide by ten or a divide by 100 frequency divider.
> This is to take my 10 MHz. from my Rubidium to 1 MHz. or 100 KHz.
> I could use the spare 74xx90 chips ( which I have) but I would like to make
> some thing useful for future uses. What would be a "through the hole" type
> of IC that would have less jitter than a 74xx90. I CAN do surface mount if I
> have to.
>
> Thanks
> Bill K7NOM
 From the comments I think I will use the 74xx90 and the 74xx74. That 
will do for my
immediate needs. But I would sure like to get a couple of David's 
boards. One for my Rubidium
and one for my Thunderbolt. My Austrons Crystal Standards are good as 
they are.

Thanks for the education.
Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] state of the art devide by ten

[Bill Janssen]

I want to construct a divide by ten or a divide by 100 frequency 
divider. This is to take my 10 MHz. from my
Rubidium to 1 MHz. or 100 KHz.
I could use the spare 74xx90 chips ( which I have) but I would like to 
make some thing useful for future
uses. What would be a "through the hole" type of IC that would have less 
jitter than a 74xx90. I CAN do
surface mount if I have to.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] ADEV test setup [was GPSDO TC & Damping]

[Bill Janssen]

WarrenS wrote:
>> Bruce said:
>> The critical requirement is that the 2 standards being compared are 
>> statistically independent.
>> Comparing a pair of Thunderbolts GPSDOs with similar time constants and
>> damping will give optimistic results for Tau comparable with or greater than 
>> the loop time constant.
>> Its is even better is to use 3 or more similar standards simultaneously
>> logging phase differences between the various pairs (0.5*N(N-1) pairs for N 
>> standards).
>> It is then possible to obtain estimates for ADEV, MDEV etc for each standard.
>> 
>
> The optimistic results at and above the loop time constant, that results even 
> when 3 or more units are used, 
> is because the noise is then mostly due to the GPS signal itself and NOT the 
> local oscillators in the GPSDO.
> In effect you are then using the same 1PPS signal into each unit, and any 
> common noise on the 
> GPS 1PPS signal will cancel and not be seen.
> So I think what Bruce is saying is that you can not (or is it should not?) 
> use the GPS signal to 
> measure the GPS's noise.
> But the point is, if you want to compare your GPSDO with different settings, 
> or compare it to 
> another OCXO, It can be done this way, if you do not have a better ref to use.
> You could then add the noise of the GPS nose above the control loop time to 
> your 
> optimistic results if you want true results at high Tau values.
>
> Also note that having the GPS noise cancle is not necessary a bad thing,  It 
> can be a good thing 
> especially if the GPS noise is not what it is that you want to measure. 
>
>   
>> Like all digital phase detectors its best to avoid, if possible, the 
>> nonlinearity inherent at the ends of the range.
>> 
>
> Using a phase detector near its end point (or at its crossover point if there 
> is any deadband) 
> is something that needs to be avoided. 
> The two basic standard ways to insure that just the center of the phase 
> detector's range is use:
> 1) Divide the signals down just enough before sending them to the phase 
> detector so that 
> the end points is not an issue.  This works when both signals are from 
> devices that are 
> locked to a common signal such as the GPS.
>
> 2) When one of signals is from a non locked source such as a OCXO whose phase 
> can drift 
> any amount overtime, One of ways to limit phase detector issues, and use just 
> the very accurate zero phase point, is to use the Phase detector's output to 
> lock the OCXO in a fast control loop and then by knowing the gain of the EFC 
> input, the filtered EFC voltage can be use as freq drift information to find 
> the ADEV's.
>
> WarrenS
>
> *:
What I am doing to ovoid the "end of range" problem is;
First I divide the signal by two to get a 50% duty cycle. Then when the 
phase difference gets to
10% or 90% of the full scale value I switch the phase detector (or 
counter) to respond to
to the opposite zero crossing. I keep track of those switches in 
software. I use a computer to control things and to keep a log of the 
phase difference.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Unknown GPSDO

[Bill Janssen]

Do any of you know any details of an unknown GPS DO. Visual GPS 
identifies it as
a Motorola VP/GT. It fas a Motorola 5 MHz. packaged oscillator and a 
Motorola GPS receiver.
The receiver is apparently a 6 channel model. One of the circuit boards 
are marked 1991-1994.

It has 1 Hz, pulse and 5 MHz. on the back and front . but the back is 
only activated when it
is "in service" It also has a RS232 interface on the back and two 
connectors I don't understand. One is a two row 10 pin header the other 
connector  is a "RJ" (similar to telephone) connector.

It apparently works, but even when the "in service" light is on it  it 
is still not locked when I compare
it to anther GPSDO

Any source of information on this unit is appreciated

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] unknown Motorola GPSDO

[Bill Janssen]

A friend of mine has two Motorola GPSDO's that I have little  experience
with.
I was checking one of the units using TAC32 and I discovered that it
would lock the 5 MHz
to GPS ( as compared with my Z3801) when the PC software was running
When I stopped
the TAC32 it would lose lock.

Anyone have a clue what this thing needs to stay locked..

The circuit board has a date of 1992 and it has a label that has
TRN7793818  LA081WN.
On the back it has connectors for;
48 Volt power
Redundancy Control
Remote GPS (10 pin)
RS232 DCE
1 PPS out
5 MHz out.
And an On Line LED

Amy place I can get more information?

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1250B

[Bill Janssen]

corby d dawson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am playing with an Austron 1250B and I'd like to add a fine frequency
> adjust.
>
> The data sheet I have on the 1150 oscillator inside indicates that the
> EFC input is an option.
>
> Anyone have a schematic for the 1250B that shows how the 1150 is wired
> in.
>
> If no EFC on this unit I'll be getting rid of it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Corby Dawson
My 1250A  manual shows the EFC being brought out to the rear panel, The 
front panel EFC
is "over powered" by the voltage put on the rear panel connection. My 
manual has two
interconnection diagrams for the wiring. They both show the BNC 
connector on the rear.

The external EFC is spec.d at + or - 5 Volts

Good luck on the B model
Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt PSU

[Bill Janssen]

David Ackrill wrote:
> Oh, for anyone else who has the same PSU as I received, the colours of 
> the output, from the markings I can see on the PCB, are as follows.
>
> Brown = Ground (Yes, honestly!  The brown wire is soldered to the case 
> in my unit)
> Black = 12 Volts (I presume nevative)
> Red = +12 Volts
> Green = +5 Volts
> White = Could not see the markings under some electrolytics.  I'll see 
> if I can get a better look later.
>
> But, I would check for yourselves before connecting up to the Trimble. 
> As ever, i can't accept responsibility if your unit is wired differently 
> from mine.
>
> Dave
On my unit White is Common for the other voltage leads and blue is not used.
Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] TAPR and Thunderbolt orders

[Bill Janssen]

I was one of those who was lucky enough to get my order in for a 
Thunderbolt before
the order machine was shut down. Now I am wondering what my status is in 
the queue
for shipping.

Does anyone know how many thunderbolt units there are still to be tested 
and to be shipped?

I don't want to bother TAPR as I am sure they have more pressing 
problems to deal with.

Just wondering if I can expect to get one.
Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Austron 1250A manual archive?

[Bill Janssen]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In a message dated 06/07/2008 22:26:29 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> writes:
>
> I have a  manual for the Austron 1250A and have answered a couple of 
> questions as to  the
> schematics. I would like to loan my manual to some one that can scan it  
> and make it available on the "NET"
>
> Anyone want that chore. I would  want the manual returned after it was 
> scanned.
> 
>
>
>
> Hi Bill, and All
>  
> I have a scanned copy of the 1250A manual and will be uploading it to  
> Didier's site shortly.
>  
> regards
>  
> Nigel
> GM8PZR
>
>
>   
OK Forget my request as it is already in work.

Thanks Nigel I will refer any future requests to Didier's site

Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Austron 1250A manual archive?

[Bill Janssen]

I have a manual for the Austron 1250A and have answered a couple of 
questions as to the
 schematics. I would like to loan my manual to some one that can scan it 
and make it available on the "NET"

Anyone want that chore. I would want the manual returned after it was 
scanned.

Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Austron manual/schematic request (proper number this time) 1250a

[Bill Janssen]

Bruce Richardson wrote:
> A, W0BJ went and checked and the item he has is an
> Austron 1250a.  He's been running it for years but it 
> recently died. He has pretty good repair skills and
> could use the schematic as a minimum.  The manual would be
> ideal. Electronic forms are just fine.
>
> Thanks
> Bruce Richardson W9FZ
>
>   
Well I have two of those 1250A's and one manual. It hasn't been scanned 
though. I can scan it but there are a few fold-out pages.The important 
stuff is on those fold-out pages. Some one else may have the manual in 
electronic form.

I would suggest he check the batteries first.

Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] TAC32 & Z3801A

[Bill Janssen]

I was trying to get TAC32 to talk to my Z3801A, and no luck. I have
HP SATSTAT working OK but not TAC32 (or SynTac). SATSTAT uses COM 1, at 
19200,7 bits and odd parity. Incidentally I modified the Z3801A to be 
RS232, if that makes a difference

How do I convince TAC32 to connect to my Z3801A

Any help appreciated
Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Motorola GPS + 5 MHz oscillator ?

[Bill Janssen]

I have a friend who has  two of the surplus (telephone Co. ?) timing 
receivers. That use a Motorola
(A111219115) GPS receiver and a ovenized 5 MHz oscillator

It has external connectors for 5 MHz., 1 PPS, -48Volts, RS232, and the 
Antenna.
He has the matching Antenna which is marked 5 Volt and looks like it has 
a helix inside.

What I want to do is get one of them running so I need to find the 
correct commands to set the
Lat and Long. and read the status messages.

Anyone recognize this equipment?

Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] spectracom line taps

[Bill Janssen]

John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
> jshank said the following on 02/18/2008 03:05 PM:
>   
>> Jamie,
>>
>> If you have the Spectracom 8140 you need to use the line taps.  With out 
>> using the line taps you sinewave will not be symmetrically along 0 voltage, 
>> that is the sine wave will all be positive voltage.
>> 
>
> I'm not certain about that; while I haven't used an 8140 amplifier, I
> have an 8164 WWVB disciplined oscillator that has an option installed to
> allow it to run a string of 8140T taps.  I was able to use those outputs
> directly by using a series cap to isolate the DC voltage; what's left is
> the 10 MHz sine wave.  As I noted in my other post, it does want to see
> a 50 ohm load (after the isolating cap) or the fault indicator may go
> on.  I suspect the 8140 amp is very similar; Spectracom did a lot of
> design reuse across their products.
>
> John
Be careful with that termination. If the  output has 12 volts DC you 
would need an isolating cap.
The Line Taps were intended for a production line where the taps could 
just be plugged in
and would get their power from the coax. Some were made that had a power 
jack and those
could be powered from a "wall transformer".

Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Chronometer contest sponsored by IEEE Spectrum

[Bill Janssen]

Jeff Mock wrote:
> Jeffrey Pawlan wrote:
>   
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2007, David Forbes wrote:
>> 
>>> It might be more fun to require that an OCXO be designed and built by
>>> the DIY-er out of commercially available crystals and resistors. That
>>> way, it's an engineering challenge instead of a procurement
>>> challenge, since IEEE is about engineering.
>>> --
>>>   
>> I second David's suggestion!   The only REAL challenge would be to design the
>> circuitry. Otherwise this is just a "rack & stack" project which is not
>> engineering.
>>
>> 
>
> I think it's a fantastic challenge.  I imagine starting with a design 
> goal something like tvb's original leapsecond goal.  It would be kind of 
> cool to have a $100 clock that met that criteria.
>
> I don't think an off-the shelf OCXO timebase will be competitive at this 
> price point. I'm not aware of an inexpensive SC-cut oscillator.
>
> I think the parameters for the contest need to be tightened up. 
> Temperature and environment are enemies for this kind of clock, I hope 
> they specify the operating environment and time period for evaluation.
>
> I think that I would start by looking at 32kHz watch crystals, I've 
> often wondered how good a timebase you can make out of one.  The tempco 
> is a parabola around 25C with a max slope of something like 0.05 PPM/C, 
> so they are naturally a pretty good timebase with good aging 
> characteristics. The crystals are really tiny,  maybe insulating it with 
> a material that has an interesting heat of fusion along with a micro to 
> model the physics of the parabolic shape of the crystal performance.
>
> jeff
>
>   
Maybe an ensemble of watch crystal clocks and a PIC microprocessor  per 
David Allan paper
of some years ago. After testing you could assign deferent weighting to 
the different clocks.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Lucent WR-92066 L10 RFG-XO on EB**

[Bill Janssen]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

OK I bought one of those Rubidium's off of that E*** place and I am 
wondering what
I am getting.

Is it obvious how to power it up or do I need a manual, Some one on here 
had some pictures,
that I didn't book mark. Anyone have details of that device or did I 
just order another door stop.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Prologix and Windows 98SE

[Bill Janssen]

Thanks for the info. I will try disabling COM1 and 2 ands see what happens.

Bill K7NOM

John Miles wrote:
> There should certainly no problem using COM3 with Win98SE.  If you aren't
> using your machine's normal serial ports for anything, you might try
> disabling them in the CMOS setup screen.  That may let the system assign the
> Prologix board to COM1 so QBasic can see it.
>
> On the other hand, if QBasic is hardwired to talk only to COM1/COM2, that's
> pretty lame...
>
> -- john, KE5FX
>
>   
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Bill Janssen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>> 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 9:51 AM
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Prologix and Windows 98SE
>>
>>
>> 
>>> Well I bought a prologix GPIB device to use with my HP5370A to compare
>>> clocks. I tried a QBasic program and, no surprise, QBasic couldn't find
>>> the COM3.
>>>
>>> So, I downloaded "Prologix GPIB Configuration" program and that finds
>>> COM3 and
>>> I can control my 5370. I next tried "EZGPIB" and it reports "No Prologix
>>> found"
>>>
>>> I intend to write some small test programs using Visual Basic and see
>>> what these do.
>>> But, am wondering if there is any hope for success using
>>>   
>> Windows 98SE or
>> 
>>> do
>>> I have to use Windows XP.  I really want to stay with Windows 98SE if
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Bill K7NOM
>>>   
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
>   


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Prologix and Windows 98SE

[Bill Janssen]

Well I bought a prologix GPIB device to use with my HP5370A to compare
clocks. I tried a QBasic program and, no surprise, QBasic couldn't find 
the COM3.

So, I downloaded "Prologix GPIB Configuration" program and that finds 
COM3 and
I can control my 5370. I next tried "EZGPIB" and it reports "No Prologix 
found"

I intend to write some small test programs using Visual Basic and see 
what these do.
But, am wondering if there is any hope for success using Windows 98SE or do
I have to use Windows XP.  I really want to stay with Windows 98SE if 
possible.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB/USB ,RS232 or Ethernet converter

[Bill Janssen]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Prologix wrote:
> Interesting. I used to sell a GPIB-RS232 version some years ago. Sales were
> low since customers were clamoring for an USB version! But then I hadn't
> discovered this crowd :-) Happy to take another look at it.
>
> I am in the process of designing a GPIB-Ethernet controller. You think that
> will be of any interest?
>
> Abdul
Original stuff cut (not on topic anymore)

I am wondering what the status is of the RS232 or Ethernet design.
Or, does anyone have one of those old GPIB-RS232 units around. I will
probably buy a GPIB/USB but would rather have an RS232.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] ? HP 05370A & 05370-80006

[Bill Janssen]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

I just won an auction for a 5370A and was wondering what they mean by
"has modified
front end with 05370-80006".

Is that an important modification?

After I wrote the above I am informed that the 0570-80006 is the
part number for the label for the actual modification, what ever that was.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Basic Stratum 1 question

[Bill Janssen]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Richard H McCorkle wrote:
> ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
> Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
>
> Jared,
> Symmetricom has a Stratum definition page at:
> http://www.ntp-systems.com/think_sync_view_article.asp?ID=42&NewsletterID=1&month=4&year=2005
>
> This is what they have to say;
>
> Dr. David Mills from the University of Delaware, when he wrote
> the RFC 1305 that is NTP (Network Time Protocol), developed a
> hierarchical structure in which Stratum 0 is the USNO (United
> States Naval Observatory) clock. Stratum 1 is a radio receiver
> that receives the time from Stratum 0. Stratum 2 is a client
> that receives the time over a network connection from a Stratum
> 1 clock. Stratum 3 is a client that gets the time from Stratum
> 2. This goes on to a theoretical Stratum 15.
>
> In the telecommunications world, stratum refers to the holdover
> performance of an oscillator in the event of loss of
> synchronization. Stratum 1, Stratum 2, Stratum 3, and Stratum 4
> are the most typical. A Stratum 1 clock has an accuracy of
> 1.0 x 10-11, Stratum 2 has an accuracy of 1.6 x 10-8, Stratum 3
> has an accuracy of 4.6 x 10-6, and Stratum 4 has an accuracy of
> 3.2 x 10-5.
>   
Much NTP stuff clipped

In the telecommunications world the goal was to prevent buffer overflows 
(or underflows)
in equipment that may be connected together even though they might both 
be Stratum 5.
In the telecomm. world those buffers are 125 Micro seconds long.

So the assumptions are made that stratum 5 sync.'s to a 4 and a 4 to a 3 
and a 3 to a 2
all the way to a Stratum 1.  In this chain each clock has to follow the 
frequency wander of the connected lower numbered clock. And it has to 
have sufficient frequency adjustment range.
to follow if the lower numbered clock goes into hold-over.

So there are specifications for each stratum level that hopefully  
assures stability of the network.

BTW the stratum 1 specification came from available Cesium standards 
used by AT&T
for many years. They were updated but not by much.

Been 15 years since I looked at this stuff so it may have changed in the 
details.

Bill K7NOM

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] 5370A jitter - What to look for

[Bill Janssen]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I need to fix my HP 5370A jitter to reduce it to something reasonable.
It is now about 3 nano seconds and is partially periodic. It is not 
totally random
If I plot the data (using plotter) I see what looks like two oscillators 
beating against
each other with superimposed jitter

Wondering if that has a known source or do have to find the problem my 
self :-)
I do not have the two matched cables and the pulse generator to do the 
complete alignment.
I do have a spectrum analyzer to do the 200 MHz. alignment

I can send the data file if that is permitted.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] HP5370B and GPIB

[Bill Janssen]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Brian Kirby wrote:
> If you are using a HP5370B time interval counter and logging data from 
> the HPIB bus, can I inquire to what you are using for an interface to 
> the HPIB bus and what do you log the data with ?
>
> I am basically trying to capture 1 second data from the 5370B using a 
> Softmark USB/GPIB card - and I am not having any luck at all.
>
> I see some effects of commanding, the display on the 5370 changes or I 
> get and error message - but I cannot read any sort of data back thru the 
> HPIB port.
>
> I would appreciate it if one could send an example of what commands I 
> need to send to set the port up and retreive the data.
>
> Brian N4FMN
>   
Here is a short QBASIC program that I used to test my 5370A and a 
National Instruments board.
the exact wording depends on the interface board you use. I hope I typed 
it correctly as the machine
it is on is busy at the moment.

Good luck
Bill K7NOM

*
REM the address of the 5370 is 4
Include "qbdecl" :REM NI driver & language library
OPEN "GPIB0" FOR OUTPUT AS #1
OPEN "GPIB0" FOR INPUT AS #2
TIMER ON
PRINT #1, "ABORT": REM  this sets up the NI board as controller
PRINT #1, "CLEAR 4": REM this clears the 5370
Z=1 TO 100: NEXT Z:  REM let the 5370 settle
PRINT #1, "REMOTE 4"
PRINT #1, "OUTPUT 4 #3;FN1"
PRINT #1, "OUTPUT 4, #3;SS2"
ON TIMER (10)  GOSUB 200
100 REM stay here utill timer calls
150 GOTO 100
REM ***
200 PRINT #1, "ENTER 4 #24" :REM expect to get 24 characters
FOR X = 1 TO 1000: NEXT X
result$ = INPUT$(24,2):REM get 24 char. from port 2
FOR X = 1 TO 1000: NEXT X
a$=MID$(result$,5, 18):REM   discard the first 5 and the last 1 char.
a = VAL(a$)
PRINT a
RETURN
END

***

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Z3801A Antenna

[Bill Janssen]

A friend of mine just picked up a Z3801 GPS receiver without the 
necessary antenna.

I know this has been discussed recently but am wondering what the 
recommended (cheap but usable )
antenna would be. I want to give him a recommendation or two. The 
antenna has to be a 5 Volt version
to match the Z3801A

Thanks
Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator

[Bill Janssen]

Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>> I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
>> wants one.  They are in "worked the last time it
>> was turned on, but no guarantee of specs" condition.
>> I can't accept money for these units.
>>
>> Rick Karlquist N6RK
>> E1938A circuit designer
>> 
>
> Due to the high level of interest, I may need to 
> limit the oscillators to one per person.  I will be
> getting the oscillators out of storage today and
> will try to make an accounting of oscillators vs
> requestors.  I am suggesting an $8.95 donation for a
> flat rate Priority Mail box.  I think it will fit
> into one of those boxes.
>   
Is that still the going rate after the rate increase?
Bill K7NOM

> Regarding non-USA requestors:  I will need to look
> into the customs aspect of this.  If anyone on the
> list can give me a tutorial on this it would be
> helpful.  These are "gifts" if that matters for
> customs purposes.  Also, they have essentially zero
> market value as "discards".
>
> I am happy that I can give these a good home.  I almost
> threw them away last month while cleaning up.
>
> Rick Karlquist
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts@febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>   



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] ? phase comparison or other device

[Bill Janssen]

I thought that someone was designing a circuit that could be used to compare
two oscillators.

What happened to that project?  I now have a HP 5370A so I have 
something, but
I would like to make simultaneous measurements on three or four "precision"
clocks.I am not qualified to design a "state of the art" device, so I am 
looking for others
to do that.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] [Fwd: Efratom MRT.....Help me !]

[Bill Janssen]

Any one want to help this person?

Bill K7NOM
--- Begin Message ---
I have a frequency standard Efratom type MRT,
and I am looking for the Service manual .
Help me !
Thanks
mauri


--- End Message ---
___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] FA OCXO

[Bill Janssen]

I just put an Isotemp OCXO on Ebay. I have two of these and the second one
may end up there as well. I have to decide if I need it or not :-) The item
number is 190105099278.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB/USB converter help...

[Bill Janssen]

John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
> Hi --
>
> Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but I know there are some folks here
> who have used the nifty little Prologix GBIB dongles.
>
> I just got one and am trying to get it running under Linux.  I have the
> low-level configuration right (I think) and the device is recognized and
> I can talk to it, after a fashion, on the /dev/ttyUSB0 port.
>
> But when I try to actually communicate with it using a terminal emulator
> (I've tried both minicom and picocom) using the 115,200 N81 settings
> that I've been told are required, it's as if there is a baud rate, word
> length, or parity problem -- 99% of the characters echoed on the screen
> are question marks, with a few other characters randomly tossed in.  The
> device is talking to the terminal program, and appears to be accepting
> data, but something is screwing up the characters received (and maybe sent).
>
> I've tried a couple of different comm parameters, but none of them make
> a difference.  I am *not* getting the blinking LEDs on the dongle that
> supposedly indicate improper comm settings.
>
> Any ideas what's going on, and how to fix it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
Don't know about the prologix bit but have had similar problems with 
other equipment
and had to get my terminal program to ignore the 8th bit in the ASCII byte.
One of my terminal programs can be set to recognize 7 bits and ignore 
the 8th.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] need power trans. for HP3325

[Bill Janssen]

Didier Juges wrote:
> Even though you may have to be careful about noise, and assuming the 
> operating voltages are not exotic, you can probably find an 
> off-the-shelf switching supply that will fit where the transformer and 
> linear supplies were, with lots of room to spare, and significantly 
> reduced heat dissipation. I am thinking about doing that with the 5370, 
> considering how hot the rear heat sink runs.
>
> Didier KO4BB
>   
I have already looked at the space available and I think that is "do--able".

Bill K7NOM
> Bill Janssen wrote:
>   
>> In addition to my HP 5370, I am also working on a HP 3325A that needs 
>> repairing.
>> A bridge rectifiers went shorted and took out the transformer.
>>
>> So, anyone have a junk HP 3325 that has a good transformer?
>> According to HP a 9100-4099 or a 9100-4696 will work in my HP 3325.
>>
>> Meanwhile I am lashing up a couple of transformers, external to the 
>> case, to provide power.
>> It will look ugly but should work.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bill K7NOM
>>   
>> 
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts@febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>   



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] need power trans. for HP3325

[Bill Janssen]

In addition to my HP 5370, I am also working on a HP 3325A that needs 
repairing.
A bridge rectifiers went shorted and took out the transformer.

So, anyone have a junk HP 3325 that has a good transformer?
According to HP a 9100-4099 or a 9100-4696 will work in my HP 3325.

Meanwhile I am lashing up a couple of transformers, external to the 
case, to provide power.
It will look ugly but should work.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A Frequency counter Problem(s)

[Bill Janssen]

Jack Hudler wrote:
> On HP gear, I used a tire cleaner (Eagle something). 
> It's the only thing I found that removes that cigarette tar stain 
> Note: make sure any stickers and goo from stickers are gone before tire
> cleaner.
>   
Anybody got a replacement for the Plastic that is in front of the 
display. Mine is totaly GONE.
The instrument should work fine without it but it would be nice to have 
it. I will probably
make something someday.

Bill K7NOM
> Then I polish the face with rubbing compound or touch up areas with paint
> and coat with a urethane semi-gloss clear.
>
> I can restore a heavily damaged face (Scratched to the metal) to like new
> with a few hours work. (Curse those idiots that scrape of stickers!!)
>
> Jack
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John Miles
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:50 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A Frequency counter Problem(s)
>
> I just pull the board (it's fairly obvious how, but I believe the manual
> also talks about how to disassemble the front panel), take the sliders out
> of the switches, and swab everything down with Caig ProGold.
>
> The only tricky part is paying attention to how the springs are installed on
> the switch sliders.  If you put them back the wrong way, you can bend or
> break the spring when you try to operate the switch.
>
> -- john, KE5FX
>
>   
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Behalf Of jshank
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:30 PM
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A Frequency counter Problem(s)
>>
>>
>> Could someone please provide me with a link or the procedure to
>> disassemble,
>> cleaned / lubed.
>> Thanks
>> Jeff
>>
>> 
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts@febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts@febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>   



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370A Frequency counter Problem(s)

[Bill Janssen]

OK that gives me some hope that I can make this thing work. I have 
started the calibration
process and got to the second step that requires a short duration 
pulse.  I don't know
how I will do that yet. Maybe I will skip that item and go to the next.

The processor seems to work OK so I assume the ROMs are seated. I did 
re-seat them anyway.

Thanks for the comments and now back to work :-)

Bill K7NOM

John Miles wrote:
> It's normal for those last few digits to bounce around when measuring
> frequency.  The shorter the gate time, the less-consistent the LSDs will be.
> How do the tolerances compare to what's in the manual's self-check
> procedures?  You'll note that they don't tell you to expect 10.000 000 000
> MHz, but 10.000 000 0XX MHz.
>
> The important things to look at with a 5370 are: 1) verify that the trigger
> levels are 0.00 +/- 0.01 with the controls set to PRESET; 2) verify that the
> +T.I. ONLY interval is within 1 ns of 100.0 ns; and 3) verify that the
> jitter when measuring its own clock reference is less than 100 ps (all of
> the ones I have seen are under 50.)  If all of that is OK, then chances are
> everything else will work properly including frequency measurement.
>
> I've found that many of them need their front-panel input assembly taken
> apart and the switches carefully cleaned/lubed.  That alone may clear up a
> lot of flakiness.  There have also been some reports of poorly-seated ROMs,
> and/or socket contact problems.
>
> -- john, KE5FX
>
>
>   
>> I got a HP 5370A off of Ebay and although it looks terrible I thought it
>> would probably work OK.
>> But it doesn't :-(  I downloaded the manual and have yet to print it out.
>>
>> Question;
>> When doing a self check by feeding the 10 MHz from the back into the
>> counter it counts cycles OK
>> but the last 3 or 4 digits are erratic. I am starting to do as much
>> alignment as I can but am
>> wondering if this is a known problem and if a cure is known.
>>
>> Anyway I think I paid too much for this box of problems but will
>> continue to try to repair.
>>
>> Any suggestions (on repair only) is appreciated
>>
>> Bill K7NOM
>>
>> 
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts@febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>   



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] HP 5370A Frequency counter Problem(s)

[Bill Janssen]

I got a HP 5370A off of Ebay and although it looks terrible I thought it 
would probably work OK.
But it doesn't :-(  I downloaded the manual and have yet to print it out.

Question;
When doing a self check by feeding the 10 MHz from the back into the 
counter it counts cycles OK
but the last 3 or 4 digits are erratic. I am starting to do as much 
alignment as I can but am
wondering if this is a known problem and if a cure is known.

Anyway I think I paid too much for this box of problems but will 
continue to try to repair.

Any suggestions (on repair only) is appreciated

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Hello

[Bill Janssen]

Tom Van Baak wrote:
>> The Shortt pendulum was of great interest - what could 70 years
>> of relentlessly advancing technology have to improve on it?
>> That is a top priority, behind consulting commitments, financial
>> management, home maintenance, building computers and looking for
>> business. Which is to say, I've bought things but haven't had any
>> time to do anything with them, like the Invar rod.
>> 
>
> I would be interested if others of you time-nuts are also
> involved with pendulum clocks. At the surface it might
> seem odd that with today's technology that anyone would
> want to spend time with pendulum clocks. But there are
> several hundred guys around the world who are spending
> a great deal of time working on modern pendulum clocks.
>
> The history, science, and technology of these things is
> far, far deeper than you might think. Here I can make a
> plug for Jim's website:
> http://www.clockvault.com/heritage/index.htm
> and also have a look at Bill's amazing creations:
> http://www.precisionclocks.com/
>
> I really like my cesium clocks, but you've got to admit
> these old (Riefler and Shortt) and new (Q1 and Q2)
> are much better eye candy and old HP or FTS clock.
>
>   
>
Stuff snipped
> /tvb
> http://www.LeapSecond.com
There was a series of articles in The Home Shop Machinist starting in the
September/October 2000 issue that described construction of a Free 
Pendulum clock

I think I can find all of the articles if some one wants them

Bill K7NOM (not really nutty about time)


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] FA another Z3801A

[Bill Janssen]

I just put a Z3801A on Ebay. This is a  Z3801A without an antenna or 
power supply
It is a clean unit and powers up and locks on to the satellites
The computer port has options set to RS232. The item no. is 190092049523

Thanks
Bill K7NOM



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Setting Osc Frequencies

[Bill Janssen]

Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
> Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
>   
>> Tom Van Baak wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> Don,
>>>
>>> Yes, using an oscilloscope in this way is a time-honored
>>> trick to observe slow changes in relative phase over time.
>>>
>>>   
Stuff clipped
>> Tom
>>
>> One could always use an HP K34-5991A (or equivalent phase comparator) 
>> connected to a strip chart recorder.
>> Failing that an equivalent device should be easy enough to build and it 
>> could be connected to a DVM or other low resolution ADC which in turn is 
>> connected to a computer for data logging purposes.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list
>> time-nuts@febo.com
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>
>>   
>> 
> Tom
>
> Additional info on K34-5991A
> Manual available at:
> http://www.to-way.com/k34599a.pdf
>
> Since the circuit uses 2 line receivers, a dual flip flop an exclusive 
> or gate and an opamp, designing/building an equivalent instrument should 
> be fairly simple.
>
> Bruce
>   
I built my own version of this scheme and it works OK but mine has some 
"issues"
So I would like to have at least three of these.to replace my one.

Anyone willing to take on the job of designing a circuit board?

I log my results with a A-D converter and my Basic program

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] Any PC software to gen. IRIG B

[Bill Janssen]

I have this DATUM clock that can free run or can be programed with an
IRIGB signal. I wonder if anyone has some software to generate the IRIG
formated signal with a PC or even with Micro Processor

A converter to take the output from my Z3801A and send IRIG B
 to my clock would be even better.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM

.


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Estate sales

[Bill Janssen]

Sebastian Stolp wrote:
> hi rich,
> the ugly truth is: items of interest to the time nuts are being  
> thrown away.
> persons outside this group think it's ham radio stuff and don't think  
> it's worth to be put out for sale, if they think about it at all.
>   
At the scrap yard is a (1930's ?) Broadcast station frequency monitor. 
It has a rather large
oven which I suppose contains a crystal. I think that item has a Gates 
logo on the front.

Anyone want that or should I just leave it in the scrap.

Bill K7NOM
> the term 'technical antiques' isn't widely spread in the mass market.
> try to take a look behind the house/garage, maybe you'll find what  
> you are looking for.
> even the industry itself does this. e.g. in the early nineties,
> patek philippe threw the remains of their 'division electronique'  
> into the trash container.
> today the rare early quartz clocks that have survived are on sale at  
> auctioneers.
> strange thing is, same auctioneer is selling silver salt and pepper  
> shakers and old furniture ;-) yuk!
> happy hunting!
> SEBASTIAN STOLP
> GOETZHUSERWEG 165
> CH5245 HABSBURG, SWITZERLAND
> GOOGLE EARTH: 47°28'04.15''N 8°10'06.10''E
> + 41 76 200 00 80
> + 41 56 534 56 26
>
>
>
> Am 12.02.2007 um 21:33 schrieb Jack Hudler:
>   



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] FTS-1050A battery pack?

[Bill Janssen]

Brian Kirby wrote:
> If the unit powers up, you may probe it and see what kind of charging 
> voltage you can measure.
>
> John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
>   
>> I have a nice FTS-1050A that came without its battery pack.  I'd like to
>> put one together for it.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me the battery layout -- number and type of cell, and
>> physical arrangement -- so I can try to reconstruct it?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> John
>>
>> 
I have a 1250 and it uses D  Lead Acid cells in a long narrow box.
I would expect that yours uses D cells also, but I don't know

Cheers
Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Odd request

[Bill Janssen]

Mark Amos wrote:
> Time-nuts
>
> I appreciate the comments regarding horological obsession.  Mine started with 
> a desire for an accurate master 
> oscillator for my ham shack (built and use a couple Shera GPSDO's) and has 
> blossomed into a much broader interest 
> in time (Ex tempus, sapientia?)  
>
> This has led me to a silly quest.  I'd like to use a traditional clock face 
> and hands as an output device for a 
> 1PPS signal from my GPSDO.
>
> I know this is a very broad question, but does anyone have advice on where I 
> might start hacking (or making) a 
> mechanical clock face to accomplish this? Is there a simple clock design that 
> I could start with to build my own? 
> Maybe replacing a pendulum or escapement with a solenoid?  Any examples to 
> work from?
>
> Mark
>   
Battery powered clocks are available in hobby shops especially those 
that cater to woodworkers. They have a wide selection
of hands for every application. You would have to hack the electric part 
but I think that is do-able.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Where to get handles and feet for HP 5334B

[Bill Janssen]

Hal Murray wrote:
> Is there any obvious place to get them?
>
> I'm looking for the hand-friendly handles, not the rack mount ears.
>
> The handles are option 907, part number 5061-9688.  I didn't have any luck 
> via eBay or google.
>
>
> How do I get the handles off?  Or rather, how do I get the piece of plastic 
> covering the screws off?  I assume it snaps off, but which way to I poke/pry 
> it to get it off without breaking something?
>
>
>   
I think I have a few "feet" for the HP instruments. Don't know what the 
HP 5334B needs though. I think there
were different styles of feet for old HP equipment.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] LORAN time and date ?

[Bill Janssen]

I notice that the LORAN station at Middletown is now transmitting nine 
pulses instead of eight.

Has anyone done anything with the data encoded in the ninth pulse? The 
ninth pulse seems
to position modulated.  I built my own, bare bones, receiver and I would 
like to decode
the info.

Bill K7NOM



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] HP 8642a Fan Fixed

[Bill Janssen]

John Ackermann N8UR wrote:

>Doug Millar said the following on 11/03/2006 09:57 PM:
>
>  
>
>> Should we be considered "certified" time nuts? or 
>>just "certifiable"?
>>
>>
>
>Depends on whether you're traceable to NIST...
>  
>
Well I have been to NIST in Boulder so maybe I am certifiable (probably).

Bill K7NOM



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Re Certified Time Nut Certificate

[Bill Janssen]

Doug Millar wrote:

>Hi John,
> Ok. Great idea.  We should make up a certificate that looks 
>like an NIST cert. that certifies that if we have a working 
>Cesium  or hydrogen maser standard or two or more standards that can 
>be traceable to NIST, you can become a Certified  Time Nut. It will 
>look nice hanging over a person's maser.
>  Of course we could have levels as well. Master Nut (Own a 
>maser or 5071) and then levels like primary, secondary and tertiary. 
>The lowest could be  having just a GPS source or rubidium.  What do 
>you think? Maybe we could come up with something interesting. Anyone 
>want to make them up?
> Doug
>
>  
>
What! My wavemeters don't count as a frequecy standard?

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] ? info on RS232 time interval counter

[Bill Janssen]

Some on on this list mentioned a Richard  McCorkle's Time Interval Counter.

Is there any place on the web that I can get some more info on this. I 
don't want to
buy a HP counter to do comparisons of crystal oscillators. I have to 
frequency counters but
they are not really useable for phase comparisons. So I intend to build 
something.

Bill K7NOM



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] GPS becoming large

[Bill Janssen]

Magnus Danielson wrote:

>Hi folks,
>
>I got this message, and I assume you would find it interesting.
>
>8<
>Due to the extended life of the GPS satellites, we are now facing the 
>possibility there will be more than 30 satellites in the constellation.  It 
>is believed this might be a problem in some receivers.  Receiver 
>manufacturers should be able to confirm if this is a problem.  The Memo at 
>http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/gpsnotices/50SW_GPSW_letter.pdf gives more 
>information. 
>
>Civil responses:  If you believe this will cause a problem, please contact 
>NAVCEN at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] by 20 October 2006.
>
>
>What is the best way to forward this to the telecom community?
>  
>
Don't know what the "best way" would be but

www.atis.org

has a committee T1X1.3 that is concerned with synchronization matters

An email to them might be useful

Bill K7NOM

>I have not planned to be in Vancouver next week, though I am aware that 
>there is an OPTXS and an ITU-T meeting.  This seems important enough that 
>ITU-T participants would want to know and check with their receiver 
>manufacturers.  That is, I think both U.S. and international telecom users 
>should consider whether their receivers will fail because of this.
>
>Charles, perhaps you can forward this to appropriate people in Europe; 
>perhaps at least members of the ITSF steering committee.
>
>Regards,
>Marc
>>8
>
>With the GPS constallation hitting 32 we seems to run out of "legal" PRN codes
>even.
>
>Cheers,
>Magnus
>
>___
>time-nuts mailing list
>time-nuts@febo.com
>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>  
>



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency from telco

[Bill Janssen]

Hal Murray wrote:

>Has anybody tried using the phone company as a frequency reference?
>
>Are the telco master clocks locked to GPS or national frequency sources?  Or 
>do they just use their own Cesium box?
>  
>
Yes to all of the above. It depends on the telco. All of them  "should" 
meet the 10E-11 requirement
over a "long" interval

>Is that a useful way to get a good clock without a GPS antenna?
>
>  
>
Probably, if you filter the jitter and wander with a reasonably good 
crystal oscillator

>I worked with T1 many years ago.  It wouldn't be hard to extract a signal to 
>feed to a PLL.
>  
>
You could lock an oscillator to the T1 rate and then divide that down to 
something like 8 or 4 KHz
and use that to discipline you "precision" oscillator

>Has anybody done that and collected data?  I'd expect lots of short term 
>jitter and wander but the long term should be pretty good.
>
>  
>
The telco's do that all the time. The worst wander I have seen was about 
200 NanoSeconds over
a few minuets time. There was a lot of data available at one time. SONET 
(fiber optics) had
a problem with step changes in phase on the payload.. Don't know how 
that was resolved

>Does anybody know how DSL works?  If I poke around with a scope in my DSL 
>modem/router, will I find a clock locked to the telco's master clock?
>
>How many different versions of DSL are there?
>
>
>  
>
I haven't worked in this field for about 16 years so anything I type is 
from that time frame.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Time syncing question

[Bill Janssen]

Hal Murray wrote:

>[telcos]
>  
>
>>They need to keep all the trunk signals in   perfect sync to keep from
>>loosing bits.
>>
>>
>
>That's not quite right.
>
>You won't drop bits if the trunk is (slightly) faster than the source.  I 
>think the protocols for encapsulating T1s in T3s and such have a slot for 
>that so telco-X can transport bits for telco-Y.  Two telcos will, of course, 
>have independent clock empires.  (I haven't looked at the specs in many 
>years.)
>
>  
>
Yes T1 connected to T3 uses "stuffing bits" to get the T1 bit rate up to 
1/3 of the T3 rate. These bits
are then removed when the T3 is connected to three T1 lines. 
Intelligence is sent along with
the "stuffing" bits so they can be identified.

However T1 connected to a digital switch does not use that scheme. The 
digital switch has a buffer
that is used to buffer the digits until the correct time to send them on 
to an outgoing T1. If both T1's don't
run at the same speed the buffer will under run  and repeat digits or 
over run and drop digits.

Not too bad for a phone call but disastrous for a data connection.

Bill K7NOM

>That turns the problem into one of getting the receiver in sync with the 
>transmitter.
>
>How do cell phones derive their 8KHz clock?  Is that problem burried in the 
>compression?
>
>
>
>
>  
>



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Enhancing the TIC232 code for better data

[Bill Janssen]

Didier Juges wrote:

>Second thoughts about inverting the UTC 1PPS. I have read in a previous 
>post that for most GPS receivers, only the leading edge of the 1PPS 
>pulse is tightly controlled (and intended to be synchronous with the 
>satellite signal), the falling edge is not. If this is true, we want to 
>make sure we keep that edge the way it is and then invert the 1PPS from 
>the DUT, if this is possible.
>
>Also, at least with my Jupiter receiver, the 1PPS is a fairly short 
>pulse, not nearly 50% duty cycle, so inverting it might not give much 
>improvement.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Didier
>
Would it be feasible to clock a flip-flop with the pulse ? that would 
give a 50% duty
cycle but with one  pulse per two seconds. I hate to slow the signal but 
it might be feasible.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Austron 2100R Manual? Or Info?

[Bill Janssen]

Chuck Harris wrote:

>Hi John,
>
>I don't know much about the 2100R, but I do have an advertisement blurb that
>Austron put out that describes it as a stand alone, turn key frequency 
>management
>device, or something like that.  I would suspect that it has a few dip 
>switches for
>seting the GRI, and perhaps another few for setting loop time constants, and a 
>switch
>to set the frequency of the reference, and the rest it assumes.
>
>-Chuck
>
>John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
>  
>
>>I picked up a 2100R Loran receiver at the Dayton Hamvention this year
>>for a really good price, and now I'm trying to do something with it.  I
>>had thought it was simply a GPIB-controlled-only version of the 2100F,
>>but a couple of references I found on the web make me think there may be
>>other differences.
>>
>>Does anyone have a 2100R manual, or failing that, any more detailed info
>>about it?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>John
>>
All I have is a description in an Austron Timing Reference Handbook It 
says you have to set the
GRI of the desired chain. That setting is under the front panel. It also 
says you need a connection
to a local standard. The 2000R will compare the local standard to the 
LORAN and give you
the differnce.The information is available via the 488 interface.

It also outputs a 1 MHz and 10 MHz signal.

It may be that the output signals will work without the external 
reference signal as that is
definitely required to get the difference information. Maybe all you 
lose with out the
reference is the difference information.

Somebody will probably have a manual and will provide better info.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] New frequency standard, Mercury better than Cesium?

[Bill Janssen]

Dave Andersen wrote:

>Compare your clock to an ensemble of really good clocks.
>
>   -Dave
>  
>
UTC is determined by using a large ensemble of clocks and weighting the 
individual clocks
contribution depending how much they varied from the average (or some 
such measure) The details
I don't remember :-)

Bill K7NOM

>Hal Murray wrote:
>  
>
>>From the horses mouth:
>>
>>  http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/mercury_atomic_clock.htm
>>
>>
>>This brings up a question I've been meaning to ask for a while.
>>
>>How do you tell how good your best clock is?  I can figure out how good a 
>>not-great clock is by comparing it to a better one.  But what if there isn't 
>>a better one?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>___
>time-nuts mailing list
>time-nuts@febo.com
>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>  
>



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] Counter collector

[Bill Janssen]

Was it on this group that some one was telling about their counter 
collection ?

I have a manual for HP 525B Frequency Converter Unit. This is a plug in
for the big, tube type HP counter. The manual is free for any one that 
wants it.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] [FA] ICS525 Battery Top Singnal Generator

[Bill Janssen]

Brooke Clarke wrote:

>Hi:
>
>To get some feel for what these will sell for I'm auctioning a prototype 
>unit as eBay item number 7616994287.
>
>Have Fun,
>
>Brooke Clarke, N6GCe
>
>Brooke Clarke wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi:
>>
>>Awhile ago there was some discussion about the ICS525 and I finally got 
>>a quote on their demo board it was $57 and 10 weeks.  Well it's been 
>>less than 10 weeks and I've made my own, with more features than the 
>>stock version.  There's been some delay getting all the stuff to do fine 
>>pitch Surface Mount Parts, see:
>>http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/SMT.shtml
>>Version 1.0 has the ICS525-02 (160 MHz max out)  a couple of 10 position 
>>SIP switches, a power supply including snaps for a 9 volt battery and a 
>>14 pin socket that will hold either a full or half size DIP oscillator.  
>>There's also a BNC input connector that can supply the chip instead of 
>>the DIP oscillator.  BNC output connector.  See more at:
>>http://www.pacificsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml#BTSG
>>
>>
>>Data Sheet for ICS525:
>>http://www.icst.com/datasheets/ics5250102.pdf
>>
>>When using the calculator be sure to scroll down to the results for the 
>>high speed -02 version, see:
>>http://www.icst.com/calculators/ics525inputForm.html
>>
>>For now I'm calling it the Battery Top Signal Generator, but it might 
>>have numerous uses.
>>Is there any interest in my making more of these to sell?
>>
>>Have Fun,
>>
>>Brooke Clarke
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>  
>
I looked at the ebay listing and it looks like it would be good as a 
106.5 MHz signal
to lock another oscillator to get a 10.244 signal for a 10GHz convertor. 
The second
oscillator would clean up the close in phase noise and your circuit can 
be locked to
a 10 MHz signal of whatever quality  needed.

Don't know if you can produce them at $40.00 or so but I would be 
interested in what
you come up with

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Old DOS Oncore Program for 6-12 channel receivers

[Bill Janssen]

Randy Warner wrote:

> George,
>
>In my previous post I forgot to mention that we still have the old DOS
>based GPS Controller program if that would help. Let me know and I can
>shoot you a copy (or I could post it to the list if there is interest.
>It's a small file.)
>
>Randy
>
>
>  
>
I would like a copy of that program. I have a DOS box just to run some 
other equipment.
Would like to run just one computer rather than two :-)

Thanks
Bill K7NOM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] AN/URQ-10 Manual and /or documentation.

[Bill Janssen]

Mike Feher wrote:

>I have an FE-10A oscillator and wonder if that may have been used un the
>URQ-10. I do not know as I have no info on either, other than the schematics
>provided by John. My FE-10A is a plug in unit and I have no idea of the
>connections in order to make it play. Seems like it would be a nice unit and
>a decent 5 MHz source. Like the URQ it also has a 1 MHz and a 100 KHz
>output. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks - Mike
>
> 
>Mike B. Feher, N4FS
>89 Arnold Blvd.
>Howell, NJ, 07731
>732-886-5960
> 
> 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR
>Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:48 PM
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] AN/URQ-10 Manual and /or documentation.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] said the following on 04/24/2006 07:24 PM:
>  
>
>>I am in need of a copy of the documentation. Unit is a pretty good oven
>>
>>
>oscillator.
>  
>
>>Thanks
>>George
>>
>>
>
>I have the schematics (or at least some of them) at
>http://www.febo.com/time-freq/hardware/AN_URQ_10/
>
>John
>  
>
I have a working FE10A but no schematic. Don't know how feasible it 
would be
to try to figure out the  plug-in connections. If you don't find 
anything I will get it off
the shelf and see what I can figure out.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8140T distribution amps

[Bill Janssen]

John Ackermann N8UR wrote:

>Does anyone on the list have any specs or manuals for the Spectracom
>8140 distribution amplifiers?  While I'd like schematics, I'm
>particularly interested in how many of them you can put in a single chain.
>
>For those who aren't familiar, these are part of a frequency
>distribution system where there is a master coax line that carries 10MHz
>on top of 12VDC.  You attach multiple 8140T boxes along this line (with
>BNC tees) and each one provides a single output, usually a sinewave but
>there were versions that did frequency conversion, output a square wave,
>etc.  There was also a multiple version (8140M I think) that provides
>three square wave outputs and can be externally powered.
>
>These make a nice way to route signals around the lab.  They were
>designed to work with a box (just plain 8140, I think) that took a
>single input and could drive up to 4 strings of amps.  Also, my 8164
>WWVB-disciplined oscillator has an option installed that put 12 volts on
>its outputs.
>
>Right now, I'm driving it from my slightly modified HP 5065A Rb
>standard; I tapped the signal off before the divide-by-2 (later model
>5061As and 5065As used a 10811A oscillator followed by a divider to
>maintain a 5MHz output) and used a mini-version of the TADD-1 amplifier
>with an injector circuit to put 12 volts on the output.  The original
>5MHz is still available and doesn't seem to be affected.
>
>Anyway, I'm just wondering how many of these amps I can string together;
>right now I have 8 and it seems to work OK but I'm not sure if I'm
>stretching things.
>
>Thanks,
>
>John
>
>___
>time-nuts mailing list
>time-nuts@febo.com
>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>  
>

You might try spectracom for info on that distribution amplifier. I 
included a URL that you can try.
I didn't read the info so you may have to contact Spectracom for 
additional info.

http://www.spectracomcorp.com/Home/Products/TimeandFrequencyDistribution/8140FrequencyDistributionSystem/tabid/133/Default.aspx

At one time many years ago I was a satisfied customer.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] IC for 1 PPS Output

[Bill Janssen]

Brooke Clarke wrote:

>Hi:
>
>I've got the TVB 1 PPS PIC circuit working and would like to add an 
>output IC to drive 50 a couple of Ohm cables.
>Need two outputs, the normal 1 PPS and also the 10 kHz output since I 
>think it would work with the SRS app note for making 1,000 TI 
>measurements in one second to better see small offsets.
>
>I seem to remember that there may be an internal resistance already in 
>some chips so putting a 47 or 50 Ohm resistor in series may result in an 
>impedance above 50 Ohms.  Any thoughts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Brooke Clarke
>
>  
>
Why do you need to drive the cable with a 50  Ohm source. You need a 50 
Ohm load on the receiving
end to reduce reflections. But that is not a problem for the drivers. I 
would use a low impedance
driver to minimize losses in the driver.

Just my approach.
Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Are there limits to the accuracy of clocks?

[Bill Janssen]

Don Moss wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 Ulrich Bangert wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hal,
>>
>>i guess a physicist's answer to your question would be something like
>>that:
>>
>>Question:
>>What is Planck length? What is Planck time?
>>
>>Answer:
>>The Planck length is the scale at which classical ideas about gravity
>>and space-time cease to be valid, and quantum effects dominate. This is
>>the ?quantum of length?, the smallest measurement of length with any
>>meaning.
>>
>>And roughly equal to 1.6 x 10-35 m or about 10-20 times the size of a
>>proton.
>>
>>The Planck time is the time it would take a photon travelling at the
>>speed of light to across a distance equal to the Planck length. This is
>>the ?quantum of time?, the smallest measurement of time that has any
>>meaning, and is equal to 10-43 seconds. No smaller division of time has
>>any meaning. With in the framework of the laws of physics as we
>>understand them today, we can say only that the universe came into
>>existence when it already had an age of 10-43 seconds.
>>
>>Regards
>>Ulrich
>>
>>
>
>Ulrich,
>
>I'm a little "uncertain" how to interpret this.  Does that mean that time
>and distance (length) are granular rather than continuous?  So there are
>only discrete moments, and time doesn't flow smoothly; it jumps from one
>instant to the next, and the instants are separated by the Planck time?
>Put another way, if the instants of time were represented on a number
>line, the points would not cover the line, but would be separated by the
>Planck time.  And all meaningful time intervals are integral multiples of
>the Planck time.  And the universe could be said to jump from one state
>to the next, much as it would in a computer simulation with an ultrafine
>granularity.  And analgous statements could be made for length.
>
>Is this the right idea, or is that not the way to look at it?
>
>   - Don
>  
>
The way I understood the explanation is that the "instruments" used to 
measure length or time
were unusable at the Planck time etc.

Bill K7NOM
___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Telecom Solutions DCD Cesium

[Bill Janssen]

Rob Kimberley wrote:

>I believe that these were originally made by Datum/Austron and badged by TS.
>
>  
>
And Datum/Austron bought Frequency and Time (FTS). FTS made Cesium 
standards so it is
probably an updated FTS Cesium.

Bill K7NOM

>Interested to know what you find.
>
>Rob K
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Magnus Danielson
>Sent: 17 March 2006 17:20
>To: time-nuts@febo.com
>Subject: [time-nuts] Telecom Solutions DCD Cesium
>
>Hi!
>
>This morning a Telecom Solutions DCD Cesium landed on my lab-bench at home.
>There is something wrong with it, but there should still be some time left
>on the tube according to the source. Anyway, I am looking for info (the
>manuals
>*should* be on the way, but I will not hold my breath) and especially
>anything giving away usefull info on the serial port as well as service
>info.
>
>Any hints and tips is welcome.
>
>In the meanwhile I am figuring out how to solve the 48V problem, but I have
>a cludge available.
>
>Cheers,
>Magnus
>
>___
>time-nuts mailing list
>time-nuts@febo.com
>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>___
>time-nuts mailing list
>time-nuts@febo.com
>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>  
>



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] NTP stratum 0

[Bill Janssen]

Magnus Danielson wrote:

>From: "Rob Kimberley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] NTP stratum 0
>Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:48:16 -
>Message-ID: 
>
>
>  
>
>>The Stratum numbers in the Telecom Sync industry and those used in NTP
>>hierarchy are different beasts.
>>
>>
>
>I agree, they are completely different beasts.
>
>  
>
>>In Telecom Sync, Stratum 1, 2, 3 et al are internationally defined levels of
>>frequency accuracy.
>>
>>
>
>Um, no. They are nationally specified in the USA. You find them in ANSI T1.101.
>For their international variants you have to go to ETSI EN 300 462 series, as
>well as the ITU-T Rec. G.810 to G.813. Neither the ETSI or ITU-T standards uses
>Stratum indications, instead they use designations such as PRC, SSU and SEC.
>
>  
>
Yes the T1.101 is a USA standard, but when it was finalized there was 
international contributions and every
attempt was made to harmonize the international standards and the USA 
T1.101. I was active in the T1X3
meetings.

Bill K7NOM

>>In NTP Stratum 1 merely means the top of the hierarchical pyramid with
>>Stratum 2, 3 etc below it.
>>
>>
>
>Indeed. It is really just a reference chain length from whatever the reference
>is, which may anything form a Ceasium-beam with coordinated time to an
>undiciplined XO.
>
>  
>
>>Stratum 0 has been used in discussions I have seen from people at Datum
>>and TrueTime to represent a GPS/NTP reference, but realistically I believe
>>that it should be labelled as Stratum 1.
>>
>>
>
>Indeed.
>
>  
>
>>Would  humbly suggest you take a look at www.ntp.org for more information.
>>
>>
>
>Also, the references from earlier this thread adds up. The RFC 1305 is as such
>a very interesting article.
>
>Cheers,
>Magnus
>
>___
>time-nuts mailing list
>time-nuts@febo.com
>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>
>
>  
>



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Help w/integration problem

[Bill Janssen]

Didier Juges wrote:

>Mike,
>
>Visual Basic is the normal evolution for old Basic programs like yours. 
>You can directly reuse the source code for most of your algorithms, but 
>you will have to rewrite the user interface. VB makes it really easy to 
>generate a good looking visual interface that will make your program 
>look professional. Of course, VB is Windows only.
>
>The most popular versions (in my opinion, not a scientific study :-) are:
>1) VB 3.0, the oldest version that one might want to consider using 
>because it was quite popular and useful, and I happen to have an old 
>legitimate copy that I do not use anymore and I would be glad to let you 
>have it for you to play with (and do such silly things as convert your 
>old DOS BASIC programs...) if I can find it,
>2) VB 6.0, the one I am currently using most, because it is WIDELY 
>popular and used by a lot of professional software writers and very well 
>supported by various groups on the Internet, and
>3) VB.NET, the current version, where VB stands for Very Bloated. Nuf said.
>
>Being a MSDN licensee, I have access to all versions but I prefer VB 6.0 
>for general Windows software.
>
>Let me know if you are interested, I will dig up my old VB 3.0 disks.
>
>Didier KO4BB
>
>  
>
Deleted mikes comments

>Mike Feher 
>
Are any of the versions of Visual basic still sold that will run on my 
machine running Win 98se ?
I could always go to DOS but hesitate to order a program and then find 
it won't work
on my computer, My workbench computer runs fine with 98se.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM



___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] FS HP 10811A

[Bill Janssen]

I have this HP 10811A oscillator that I decided I won't use. Anyone need 
one?
I fired it up and set the frequency using only the voltage control and 
it came
up on 10 MHz as compared to my GPS. This unit has a small circuit board 
that
plugs in (8 pin Octal) to another board that has a switch and pot. to 
set the frequency.

All parts were removed from some kind of HP test set.

How about $50.00 plus shipping

Bill K7NOM (near Sacramento CA  95624)


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Re: Allan Deviation of Z3801A

[Bill Janssen]

Tom Van Baak wrote:

Much text removed



Also the "9.8e-13" is one of the stranger specs
that I have seen. Sometimes you see 5e-13, or
1e-12, or 2e-12, but "9.8"? It seems a very odd
number and there must be a story behind it.
 

If anyone has access to specifications  for SONET or SDH the jitter 
spec. may be

related to the above "9.8e-13".  I worked on those spec.'s a long time ago
and don't remember the details but we were concerned about Allen Variance
for those time intervals.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Re: UTC - A Cautionary Tale

[Bill Janssen]

Instead of trying, the impossible, task of coming up with a time scale 
that everyone is happy with
why not come up with something easier, such as stabilizing the 
rotational rate of mother Earth.


:-)

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] How do I measure oscillator frequency using 1pps?

[Bill Janssen]

Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:


In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, David Kirkby writes:
 


I've now got

1) Stanford PRS10 rubidium standard
2) Motorola M12+ timing GPS receiver with a 1 pps output.
3) HP 5370B time interval counter.

I'd like to look at the drift of the rubidium before I try to steer it 
with the PLL. Can anyone explain how to do this with the 5370B?
   



M12+ PPS output to "START" input
PRS10 10MHz output to "STOP" input

Measure time intervals.

You will need to normalize for cycle uncertainties, but that should
be pretty straight forward.

If you divide the 10MHz down to 1 MHz or 100kHz you will not have
cycle uncertainties.

 

The setup I used when I was doing similar things was to use a lower 
frequency. I divided down the signal
using a divide by two as the last divider. That gave a square wave to 
the 5370. I used a
computer to gather the the data and control the 5370. If the reading was 
greater that 90 % or less that
10% of the signal interval I would change the triggering polarity of the 
5370. I would
also correct the reading obtained, by a suitable amount and store that 
number


That scheme would allow for long test intervals without  the necessity 
of correction for "roll over"

of the data when I put it in a spread sheet or plotted it out.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] 1pps signal presence with no GPS signal.

[Bill Janssen]

David Kirkby wrote:


Magnus Danielson wrote:




In my case, I intend locking two items to 1pps.

a) PRS10 rubidium from Stanford.

b) HP 10811A via the Bruce Shera board.




I assume you mean the Brook Shera board from A & A Engineering:
http://a-aengineering.com/gps.htm
http://www.rt66.com/%7Eshera/



Yes, sorry, I meant Brook and not Bruce.

As far as I can tell, the PRS10 will not update the rubidium's 
frequency unless the 1pps is present, so it would seem to me the 
PRS10 would benefit from no 1pps signal rather than the wrong one. 
But perhaps I am wrong.




I think you are right. As I recall it, it stops learning from lack of 
PPS.

As always, stop assuming and know instead.



I'm pretty sure that is correct, but will double-check the Stanford 
manual. But that was how I understood it.





In the case of a 10811A via the Shera board, I am less sure.




I scanned the article, 



There's a pdf on the web by the way.


but no real clue. However, if it is missing, it should
be a small feat to fix the PIC code to do it properly. 



Although I will have to double check, I believe with no pps input, the 
DAC voltage remains fixed, so the voltage applied to the EFC input on 
the 10811A will be fixed.



Basically, lack of PPS
within say 1.5 sec of the last one means go into hold-over state. 



Incedentely, when I changed the register value on the M12+ timing 
receiver to stop the 1pps output if there is no lock, it still 
produces it for about 5 seconds after the antenna is disconnected. But 
given the time constants used in the control loops are likely to be 
hours, a few seconds will have no significant effect I would guess 
(although I have not sat and worked it out carefully).



When in
hold-over state just keep the same DAC value. If you are fancy, you 
do more
(the HP SmartClock technology is neat since it will actively 
compensate for
perturbations in environmental variables etc to predict the trimming 
needed,

which is cool).



Em, that is being clever. I think I'll just stick to removing the 1pps 
output if there is no lock. I've not read much about TRAIM, but I 
assume that is better than relying on locking to at least one 
satellite, since it will exclude any that are significantly different 
from the others. Although the Motorola manual suggests the reliability 
is such that a false error will occur once every 5.6 days (or some 
number similar to that), which hardly sounded too good to me. I need 
to understand a bit more about this.


PS,
A couple of suggestions on how I think the Synergy SynPaQ III could be 
improved, if people choose to mount it inside another enclosure.


1) Allow some decent method of securing the unit inside another box.

I have no doubt voided my warranty by drilling and tapping the case 
with a couple of M3 threads, so it can be secured from underneath. It 
seemed better than making up brackets, or cable ties.


2) Have some method of bringing the drive to the LEDs out of the box, 
so  they can be replaced by LEDs on a front panel. I'd like to get the 
1pps LED to a front panel, but short of soldering wires onto the PCB, 
that is not possible. I might either use a light pipe, or use the 1pps 
output and put it into a pulse stretcher, so it can drive an LED on a 
front panel. I'm not sure of the speed of a 555 timer, but I suspect 
that will do the job of stretching the pulse to something that is 
reasonable for an LED. But it would make life a lot easier if those 4 
LEDs could be bought onto a front panel with not too much hassle.



David Kirkby

Well you could use some sleeving to attach photo transistors on the 
existing LED's and use
that to drive your front panel LED's. Kinda haywire but you don't have 
to modify a board.

Think of it as a electronic light pipe.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Re: World's most accurate PC clock!

[Bill Janssen]

Magnus Danielson wrote:


Much important stuff clipped

1,544 MHz, 2,048 MHz, 19,44 MHz, 51,84 MHz and 155,52 MHz is standard telecom
frequencies. The two first ones are the traditional PDH rates (and thus
synchronisation frequencies), the third is the normal SDH/SONET reference
oscillator frequency, but 51,84 MHz and 155,52 MHz is more commonly used for
bit-clock reference.

Cheers,
Magnus


Magnus
Off topic I guess but wondering if you are involved with the T1X1 
standards and if so

what is happening with the synchronization group

Bill K7NOM (ex T1X1.3)


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: AW: [time-nuts] Information about FTS-1200

[Bill Janssen]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


You might try this pin out set. It is for one of the 1150s but I believe
most of the others are basically the same. They had quite a few different
versions of the 1150 is the reason I say that. I purchased the remaining
parts stock from them some time back and got quite a few schematics with it.
Most of the changes were internal but some of them they changed the RF out
to a SMA or other types of connectors.



Pin #1Ground

Pin #2oscillator monitor

Pin #3 Heater and main power input +15VDC

Pin #4 RF output

Pin #5Ground

Pin #6 + 8V regulated DC out for using with a electronic tuning circuit

Pin #7- EFT input

Pin #8+ EFT input

Pin #9Oven Monitor



On some units, pins 7 and 9 are reversed.

The 1150FW unit has a different pin out than this.

Chuck Norton

Frequency Standards & Services


 


Some info clipped


And if it is any help I have the pin outs for a 1150 oscillator. It also
uses a 9 pin connector.
 



The pin outs for my  1150 are the same as  shown above but I don't know 
for sure about the voltages.

They seem to be the same.

Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: AW: [time-nuts] Information about FTS-1200

[Bill Janssen]

Ulrich Bangert wrote:


Dear Björn,

i did alredy try to send you a mail to your personal address, but it has
been blocked due to reasons i do not know. Please supply a email adress
to that i can send some info in pdf.

Regards
Ulrich

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Bjorn Gabrielsson

Gesendet: Montag, 27. Juni 2005 01:33
An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Betreff: [time-nuts] Information about FTS-1200


I recently bought a FTS-1200 oscillator on ebay. It looks 
much like the current 1000B oscillator from Symmetricom. I 
have a partial pinout, and it powers up fine. But I am 
looking for the full pinout of the 9DSUB-connector - a 
datasheet with performance spec - and possibly a 
users/service manual for the boards behind the front panel.


Thankful for any information!

--
   Björn

And if it is any help I have the pin outs for a 1150 oscillator. It also 
uses a 9 pin connector.


Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Accessories for Synergy GPS unit.

[Bill Janssen]

David Kirkby wrote:


Hi,
I am thinking of purchasing the Synergy SymPaQ/III GPS unit,

http://www.synergy-gps.com/SynPaQ_IIIDataSheet.pdf

which will be fitted with a Motorola MT12+ GPS unit. I just phoned and 
got some prices.


The basic unit is $295, plus $33 for an antenna. A kit is $600 - quite 
a difference, so I don't wish to buy a kit.


1) Do I need the software, or are there any freebie equivalents?

(I don't suppose some of you would be surprised to know I'd like 
open-source software that could be compiled on my Sun, but I guess 
that is asking too much!!! However, if I ever write any, I'll make it 
available).


2) Are any of the accessories, such as cables, or whatever else is in 
the kit worth having? My guess is not, since I will be putting this in 
a box with power supply, rubidium, backup batteries etc. I will only 
run the RS232 to a another RS232 socket on the back of the frequency 
standard.


Just wondering if any of the cables are odd, with odd connectors, that 
I might have a problem with. I don't think there are.


I just wanted to check, before placing the order. Shipping is 
expensive to the UK, so don't wish to miss anything, but I have spent 
quite a bit on this project recently, so want to keep costs as low as 
possible.




Speaking of software, will the software for the surplus gps (Z-3801) 
work to get info from
a MT12 or similar? I have both but have not tried to fire up both at the 
same time.


Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Airflow around oscillators.

[Bill Janssen]

David Kirkby wrote:

I am building a GPS locked oscillator and will have in the box the 
following.


1) GPS receiver

2) 24 V linear power supply I have had sitting here for ages - a use 
for it at last!!


3) PRS10 rubidium

4) 10811-60111 quartz

5) 2 x 7 Ah 12V sealed lead acid batteries.

6) Shera board, to lock the 10811 to either the rubidium or GPS 
(interesting to see what gives best performance)


7) A couple of DC-DC converters to give other voltages necessary for 
the Shera board. This seems more sensible than separate power 
supplies, due to my desire to have battery backup. I don't want a 
battery for +5V, another for -5V etc.


8) A small amount of control logic, to sequence the ovens on the 
quarts and rubidium, as I can't have both heating up at the same time, 
although they can both run together later.


I need to keep the batteries cool, so are planning on blowing cool air 
over them and around to the power supply.


I'm wondering if its best to try to reduce the airflow around the 
10811-60111 and PRS10 (rubidium) to a minimum necessary to keep the 
things within temperature, or is airflow over them not going to be an 
issue? That would make life a bit easier, if I can ignore that.


I'm also thinking of using a thermostatically controlled fan, in an 
attempt to keep the temperature inside the box a constant. The unit 
will *not* be run in a temperature controlled environment, but one in 
which there are quite large changes in temperature.


Whilst I don't mind experimenting with such things

a) Whether the theromostaticaly controlled fan gives smaller or larger 
changes in the rubidiums base temperature (it has a sensor which can 
be read.


b) What gives the best performance (10811 or PRS10)

c) What it is best to lock the 10811 to (GPS or PRS10)

I am not too keen on treating this lot as mechano and trying every 
possible combination of component placement. Once placed, they will 
stay there, with the exception of perhaps some thermal insulation and 
the location of a temperature sensor for the fan if used.


Any thoughts?

My opinion (such as it is) is to minimize the temperature changes around 
the 10811 and PRS10.
Especially I would minimize sudden changes of temperature that may 
exceed the speed that the
oven control can compensate for. Even then I wouldn't expect that the 
10811 (or PRS10) can
completely stabilize the internal temperature in the face of extreme 
external temperature changes.


My opinion (again) is that the GPS will have better long term stability 
(days) than the PRS10.
Therefor I would lock the 10811 to GPS. That way the 10811 will clean up 
the short term

jitter from the GPS and the combination can be used to discipline the PRS10.

Don't have a PRS10 and have no experience with it so can't give fist 
hand knowledge.


Bill K7NOM


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] New design of Cesium tube ?

[Bill Janssen]

The MAy 2005 issue of IEEE Spectrum has a short article about a new design
of a Cesium standard. The inventor is John Kitching of NIST.
The claim is this new design will be less expensive and smaller than the 
existing design.
I have included a couple of quotes from the article

"Right now the cesium-vapor chamber takes up a few cubic millimeters. Throw
in the laser, the optics and the electronics and were up to maybe a 
cubic centimeter."

"Besides being cheap, the new atomic clocks will also be frugal with power"
So maybe when the existing Cesium standards wear out they can be replaced
with a new and cheaper one. I might even be able to afford a new one :-)
Bill K7NOM
___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Anyone want a pdf of the HP 5370B manual ?

[Bill Janssen]

I would like a CD please, and I don't intend to sell copies. What I 
don't give away I lose :-)

Bill K7NOM
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
Hi,
Poul-Henning Kamp has very kindly loaned me a copy of the HP 5370B 
Universal Time Interval Counter's operating and service manual. This 
is  up to S/N's having the prefix 2904, but there are changes in 
chapter 7  for older serial numbers. The manual part number is 
05370-90031, printed
October 1995.

Assuming my scanner does not break down, or me go insane in the 
process, I am going to scan this to PDF. Soon I hope to have 
permission from Agilent to distribute this on a CD or paper, but not 
the web (they have said they will give me permission for distribution, 
only if done on paper or CD).

If you want a copy, put a note on the list, and mention the country 
you are in. I'll then contact you about sending the CD. I don't intend 
charging, other than for perhaps postage if there are quite a few.

I'll distribute this on the condition you do not intended reselling it 
commerically.

If anyone has later revision sheets, that cover later serial numbers, 
let me know.


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Thanks All was connections for HP 10811A ?

[Bill Janssen]

Thanks to everyone that responded I now have more than enough to
check this oscillator to see if it is OK for my use.
Bill K7NOM
- Original Message - 
From: "Bill Janssen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 19:02
Subject: [time-nuts] connections for HP 10811A ?

 

I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed all 
HP info.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM
   


___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

[time-nuts] connections for HP 10811A ?

[Bill Janssen]

I picked up a HP 10811A today and need the connection information.
I tried the WEB and went to the "Bama" site but at Bama they removed all 
HP info.

Thanks
Bill K7NOM
___
time-nuts mailing list
time-nuts@febo.com
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts