Re: [time-nuts] Nifty MINI TIC for DMTD
Dear Bert, Thank you for the update! And a peek into the kitchen ;-) I guess the SMD board you mention is assembled. But I think there are people who are interested in bare boards as well Good luck and best regards, Jeroen On 02/06/2013 05:01 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: The delay is mainly do to the fact that the promise to do the drawings did not materialize. The counters are done and tests on variations of the D/M's are ongoing since the noise floor is not the counter but the D/M. Bill Riley's boards are out there and it would be nice to get some feedback on test results, also I have explored the possibility of some one manufacturing the board. A time nut is in the business and will be able to supply the SMD version of the board for $160 plus shipping if a minimum volume of 20 get ordered. As to D/M four options will be available starting with Bill's PCB. I have 4 kits of my D/M and counters available and will work with some that have the proper OCXO's and willingness to test with Time Lab since tests with Stable 32 and Ulrich's A/V software is ongoing. If interested please contact me off list Recent tests by Corby has convinced me that with the four channel counter not only cross correlation but also three corner hat is doable with one dual mixer. The offset oscillator has to be also of high quality. Some of the delays are due to visitors over the holidays but also the fact that the D/M project is not the only one. Of equal or more importance is a home standard that can get close to a Maser using GPS Rb and the best OCXO in the house.On the D/M the only work for us is packaging and display PIC programming. Latest set of boards were ordered yesterday. The display is a nice feature but not necessary. I hope we will have the drawings in about 10 days. Bert Kehren In a message dated 2/6/2013 4:15:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, j.bastemei...@tudelft.nl writes: Dear all, ! Did I miss something, or are we all waiting for more info to be published on this system? I checked KO4BB site, but I couldn't find any new info on this project. An update would be appreciated! Note: This message is written with a positive intent, not as a complaint! Thank you, best regards, Jeroen ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Nifty MINI TIC for DMTD
Dear all, ! Did I miss something, or are we all waiting for more info to be published on this system? I checked KO4BB site, but I couldn't find any new info on this project. An update would be appreciated! Note: This message is written with a positive intent, not as a complaint! Thank you, best regards, Jeroen ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT - USB to LPT Adapter - Does it exist?
Dear Joe, Be aware, the parallel printer ports are not a substitute for the LPT port! My experience is that only two things work: 1. A PCI card in your PC to add a LPT port (cost around 15 Euro) 2. Homebrew LPT ports. If my memory serves me well there was a design in the June or July/August issue of Elektor. For using the LPT for programming one usually needs the port to be bi-directional, something which is not supported on the, so called, USB-to-parallel-printer-port adapters. Good luck, Jeroen On 01/11/2013 02:09 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Not sure where to ask this question but thought I would start here. Is there a way to connect a parallel port to a computer via USB? Not a device that shows up as 'USB Print Support' but, instead, shows up in Device Manager as an LPT port? I have been able to do it via PCMCIA to Parallel Port adapters but I have never found a USB device that would do this. My goal is to connect a parallel port chip programmer via USB but the software only looks for LPT ports. It works with PCMCIA to parallel port adapters but I haven't solved the puzzle yet with a USB connected device. Thanks in advance. Joe ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency satndard on ebay UK / sulzer manuals
Dear Tom, Luciano, all, Thank you for your comments. The Sulzer is not intended to be used as a high accuracy standard. The oscillator fits nicely to some old radio's ;-) However, I think (not measured) that stability of the oscillator is better then the average stability of a modern low budget oscillator. Therefore it would be nice to have it up and running. The schematic on the website of Tom was very helpful. Basically it would be sufficient for trouble-shooting/repair. However, I would like to figure out the numbers which should be indicated by the moving coil meter on the front. I did a quick measurement with a HP counter 53230A (without a very stable reference). The number shown for the allen variation (after a couple of hours) was 1.5mHz on the 5MHz signal. (Maybe this number shows the stability of the HP??) This number gives good hope, according to me. Is there a source for manuals on these instruments? I checked the site of KO4BB, unfortunately he doesn't have a PDF of the manual. Best regards, Jeroen On 09/17/2012 02:50 PM, Timeok wrote: Yes Tom you right, but your example is on a rare Sulzer 2.5 MHz. Another very good reference can be an HP 106 (quasi impossible to find). This is not valid for the Racal model as described. I have had several unit of this standar under test and I keep one for my personal small museum. I have also a Suzer 5 MHz, it is better than Racal but same as performance to several others. I have an HP 107Br but it is not working and I cannot test it at the moment. All us are looking to find some units in flea market, old and good, but this is a very rare event due the fact there is a large 5e-10 (OCXO)production or lower, and few top performance products as you describe. good luck to us! Luciano Il 2012-09-14 19:32 Tom Van Baak ha scritto: This equipment is only good to spend winter time or for museum. Several newer oscillator,like HP10811/10544, have the same characteristics or better in smaller size. The component used ar not the best and you can have fault expecially on the power supply. Luciano, My experience is that some of these old 2.5 or 5 MHz Sulzer oscillators have vastly better performance than most 10811/10544. For example, see: http://www.febo.com/pages/oscillators/sulzer/ http://leapsecond.com/museum/sul25-1/ http://leapsecond.com/museum/sul25-2/ While it is true that they don't always work out-of-the-box when you find them cheap on eBay, once fixed, their performance is stunning. That's why these rare old Sulzer's are highly prized. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency satndard on ebay UK / sulzer manuals
Dear Luciano, Thank you for your offer to make copies of the manuals. If it is OK with you, I can make a PDF-scan of the manuals and send them to KO4BB to be put on his website. I will contact you offlist for my address details. Luckily enough I have a GPSDO, but... the GPSDO is at home and the counter is at work. A challenge to get these two together ;-) Best regards, Jeroen PE1RGE On 09/18/2012 10:30 AM, Timeok wrote: Hi Jeroen, I have a paper copy of the SULZER 5A (the 5 MHz version) and of the Racal. If you want I can make a paper copy and send you it by postal service. I do not know if Tom have a pdf copy of the manuals. Me too have these OCXO for passion. I suggest you to buy e ceep GPSDO and use it as reference for your counter, so you can start to do accurate measurement and compare the standard you have (or will have) in your lab. Let me know, for logistic use my direct email: tim...@timeok.it Luciano IZ5JHJ www.timeok.it Il 2012-09-18 09:04 Jeroen Bastemeijer ha scritto: Dear Tom, Luciano, all, Thank you for your comments. The Sulzer is not intended to be used as a high accuracy standard. The oscillator fits nicely to some old radio's ;-) However, I think (not measured) that stability of the oscillator is better then the average stability of a modern low budget oscillator. Therefore it would be nice to have it up and running. The schematic on the website of Tom was very helpful. Basically it would be sufficient for trouble-shooting/repair. However, I would like to figure out the numbers which should be indicated by the moving coil meter on the front. I did a quick measurement with a HP counter 53230A (without a very stable reference). The number shown for the allen variation (after a couple of hours) was 1.5mHz on the 5MHz signal. (Maybe this number shows the stability of the HP??) This number gives good hope, according to me. Is there a source for manuals on these instruments? I checked the site of KO4BB, unfortunately he doesn't have a PDF of the manual. Best regards, Jeroen On 09/17/2012 02:50 PM, Timeok wrote: Yes Tom you right, but your example is on a rare Sulzer 2.5 MHz. Another very good reference can be an HP 106 (quasi impossible to find). This is not valid for the Racal model as described. I have had several unit of this standar under test and I keep one for my personal small museum. I have also a Suzer 5 MHz, it is better than Racal but same as performance to several others. I have an HP 107Br but it is not working and I cannot test it at the moment. All us are looking to find some units in flea market, old and good, but this is a very rare event due the fact there is a large 5e-10 (OCXO)production or lower, and few top performance products as you describe. good luck to us! Luciano Il 2012-09-14 19:32 Tom Van Baak ha scritto: This equipment is only good to spend winter time or for museum. Several newer oscillator,like HP10811/10544, have the same characteristics or better in smaller size. The component used ar not the best and you can have fault expecially on the power supply. Luciano, My experience is that some of these old 2.5 or 5 MHz Sulzer oscillators have vastly better performance than most 10811/10544. For example, see: http://www.febo.com/pages/oscillators/sulzer/ http://leapsecond.com/museum/sul25-1/ http://leapsecond.com/museum/sul25-2/ While it is true that they don't always work out-of-the-box when you find them cheap on eBay, once fixed, their performance is stunning. That's why these rare old Sulzer's are highly prized. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Frequency satndard on ebay UK / sulzer manuals
Hi Ignacio, I got one of these units, from the same seller (actually it is the one which is pictured). It had a broken connector and a dent in the cylinder casing. Luckily the unit powers up! And it generates the frequencies it should generate. But: the frequency tuning is a bit stiff/non-responsive and the tape which is used in the oven is a bit old. Fixing this unit seems like a nice winter-project ;-) Is there anyone on the list who knows where to find the Sulzer manuals (preferably as PDF)? As it is basically a Sulzer 2.5 / Sulzer 5.0. Thank you, best regards, Jeroen On 09/12/2012 01:28 AM, EB4APL wrote: Hi, Has anybody in UK noticed ebay item #140845930763 ? It reminds me the old Sulzer units, but longer. Ignacio, EB4APL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] any HP 5370B Available or other TIC
Dear Bert, Reading your description, did make me curious. I understand you don't want release too much in order to avoid confusion in the future. But do you have some more material you can share with us? Thank you, best regards, Jeroen On 08/19/2011 02:57 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: Paul, following all the responses to this posting I think a old fashioned D/M is still the answer for you. For years there have been discussions on using latest technology but limited to discussion no hardware. Maybe now is the time it will change. That is why two years ago I set out do develop a D/M system based on the original NBS design but with its own counter and a cost goal of $ 200 and readily available parts.. Thanks to Richard, Corby and Hubert there are now eight systems out there with very good results. Cost goal was reached if 20 PC board sets are purchased. The actual D/M right from NBS, more densely packaged for better temp. tracking and later components. Corby's tests show a noise floor of 1 E-13. Resolution is 1 E -15. I did post in the past a picture but it is 115K, so off list I can send more info. What is holding up the release is software that takes the counter outputs and does the Allan deviation calculations and plots. What is not included in the $200 is the offset Osc,, power supply and outside enclosure. Depending on the OCXO used it will drive the total cost to $300 even $ 400 if 10 Hz is used. But no counter needs to be used. If you use a 1 Hz offset many choices for OCXO are available I have used an Austron 1150 and more recently thanks to a lead from Hubert a Morion that is available on ebay for $40. He characterized it with the D/M system. If you want to use 10 Hz offset the only choice I know is the HP 10811. All the ones I have can be mechanically moved at least + - 20 Hz. I know nothing about the Keithly 776 so I do not know if it will work. You may want to contact me off list. The attached drawing of the counter (thank you Brian Kirby) gives you an idea of my counter approach. It is $ 30 of the $ 200. Tipically the phase between channel A and B are measured, but that creates times depending of phase when the counter can not keep up because it needs time for processing and transfer of data. My concept does also have such a counter but it is only used to position phase or once a run is completed to pick a section where channel A and B are in phase to eliminate any contribution by the offset oscillator. Two counters each per channel count the 1 or 10 Hz frequency at 100 MHz, resulting at 1 Hz with 1 E-15 and at 10 Hz 1 E-14 way better than the D/M noise floor. The counters work in a ping pong mode so there is continuous counting, I call it pseudo time stamping. It also allows you to tune the unknown close to the reference at a 1 or 10 Hz rate. These four counters are used for the Allan calculations. This unit never needs a counter, once you connect Reference and PC you can tune the offset exactly to 1 or 10 Hz, connect the unknown, tune it and you are ready to go. PC interface is RS 232 or USB. What is needed is some one tackling the PC software issue. I will not get into the kit business. At one time I was considering to coordinate a one time PCB run and even make some HP 10811's available since thanks to Corby's testing, I have ten 10811 and 5071 HP OCXO's with better than 1 E-12 over 1 to 100 sec..range, but after Jose Camara's comment that is no longer an option for me. I will once a final board set has run with software make all info available, and hopefully some one will pick it up. The reason I am right now reluctant to release the PCB board code is if changes need to be done it will be impossible to get rid of the previous code. If any one wants go get involved software or hardware wise please contact me off list. Bert Kehren In a message dated 8/17/2011 11:11:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pa...@snet.net writes: Hello Folks, I am looking for an instrument that is better than Fluke 103a comparator. The purpose of this piece of equipment is help me learn more about oscillators and characterizing them The HP5370B is the TIC I keep hearing about but I am not glued to that make or model. I wou;d like to hear suggestion from the group. Another way to go might be to build one of those units where there is a common oscillator is split and feeds the LO of 2 mixers. The RF side comes from the DUT and the REF Sorry I cannot remember the acronym... MDMM I do have that Keithly model 776 Counter time with GPIB I am really fuzzy on this aspect... Comments welcome Thank you PaulC W1VLF From: To: Sent: ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] Time Code generator
Dear time-nuts, A PIC based IRIG timecode generator sounds very interesting! Would like to build a new stand-alone IRIG-timecode generator since my Brandywine died Did some Google-searches without succes unfortunately! :-( Best regards, Jeroen -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com on behalf of Hal Murray Sent: Fri 12/3/2010 8:38 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time Code generator And, since the requirement is to be able to do all this while portable or mobile swings it all more in favour of a PC generated time code (less bits and pieces to be carried around and set up) There is a utility in the ntp package that emits IRIG based on the local clock. Look at .../util/tg2.c A PIC or Arduino widget would be perfect (I mess around with both). A quick Google search for Arduino and IRIG-B didn't seem to return much of interest but I will have another look and this time also a search on PIC as well. You might be able to port that code to PIC/Arduino. Start by ripping out all the options that you don't need and the command line processing and ... It might be a lot of work but the price is right. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Pictic II PCB group buy board cost $8
Hi Stanley, $8 per board is a great price! Please raise my quantity to five boards, thank you. Did you contact Robert Fish about the group-buy? Just to inform you, next week I'm away for boy-scouts camp. Reading mail might be difficult till the 12th of July. Best regards, Jeroen Stanley Reynolds schreef: I expect the board cost to be $8 each + shipping. Will email everyone I receive a request from in a few days and then post here for any lost emails / last call. Stanley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PICTIC II
Dear Richard, and other Time-Nuts, Congratulations! Looks like a very nice design! One remark and one question: * Remark: For those running a non-windows-OS, use Virtualbox (for exampe the free version from Oracle). This works perfect and allows e.g. Linux users to run windows applications, like ExpressPCB. * Question: Is there someone in the US willing to organize a group-buy of PCBs? When people from outside the US want to order ExpressPCB boards they have to pay about the double prices and taxes will be added This would make 17USD board (3 for 51USD as metioned by Richard) cost around 60 USD per board(!) (including shipping overseas, taxes and duties). This project looks very nice for doing some experiments. I had a fun time playing with the simple Pictic, looking forward to playing with the Pictic II! Best regards, Jeroen Richard H McCorkle wrote: Time-Nuts, The PICTIC WIKI page has been updated to include a PDF of the schematic and board layout as requested. Richard On 06/28/2010 01:46 AM, Stanley Reynolds wrote: done www.n4iqt.com/picticii/circuit.jpg www.n4iqt.com/picticii/PICTICII.bmp both above as pdf www.n4iqt.com/picticii/circuit-pcb.pdf Looks like page 2 of the schematic isn't there. The analog interpolator is there... if the overall schematic is anything like the PICTIC. I was unable to open up the schematic, but I may have made a mistake... Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Brandywine GPS-4
Hello Hal, The serial connection is not the problem (unfortunately). It seems a thermal problem When I switch on the unit it takes a couple of minutes before the Error-LED starts flashing. Doing a fast power-cycle immediately gives an error-warning (the red-LED start flashing almost immediately after switch-on). When I let the unit cool down for some time (say ten minutes) it takes a couple of minutes before the error-LED comes on. What I will try next is use some cool-spray on the DC-DC converters and see if that gives any change in the behaviour. To my opninion everything inside gets quite warm... Maybe it is a bad capacitor (high ESR). Is there any other good source for technical information on these units (schematics, service docs etc.)? Except for the manual wihich is on Didiers page? 73 Jeroen PE1RGE Hal Murray wrote: The unit used to work so dip-switch, cable etc. are OK. The thing I suspect is indeed, some problem with the FLASH and/or EPROM. However, I have no useful source of information about that. Did it work with the serial port connected to a PC like you are using now? Or did you just see the green LED go on? What happens if you try it without the serial connection? (There are some control signals on that connector that may not match normal RS-232 usage.) begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:j.bastemei...@tudelft.nl title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Unloading time-nuts stuff at a flea market in Plymouth MN
Hello Bill, A question: Would shipping of the FTS4040A to the Netherlands be an option? Probably the shipping will be too expensive... Do you have an idea about the shipping costs? Thank you, best regards, Jeroen Bill Hawkins wrote: Group, Lack of space has become the primary problem here. I will be at a flea market in Plymouth, MN, at the Comfort Inn, 3000 Harbor Lane 55447. The market is from dawn to 2 PM on Saturday 15 May. Don't look for me before 7:30, though. Have an FTS 4040A Cesium standard and its shipping container, works, $400. Will bring on request, as the box is about 3'x4'x1.5' Other things that work: (Note: if there's no interest in an item, it stays home) Fluke 207 VLF receiver, with 60 KHz selection, $50 Tracor 599K VLF receiver, to 99.9 KHz, $50 Spectracom WWVB comparator with recorder, 8212, 8150, and 8163 in a Tek TM506, $150 (also includes a Tek PS503A dual PS for TM506, and DM 501A digital multimeter) Datum PRR-10 GPS receiver, $100 HP5065 Rubidium standard, $200 Tracor 308A Rubidium standard, $100 HP3335A synthesizer $200 Austron 1290A standby power supply, less batteries, $40 Datum 9310 time-code generator, as used by NASA, $30 Fluke 853A differential frequency meter, $15 Tracor 704 phase meter, $10 Datum 9xxx time-code generators, free but not tested, many divide 1 MHz to 1 PPS Borg O-564 crystal frequency standard, missing parts, free Systron-Donner 6153 counter-timer, free Kinemetrics 468 DC receiver for GOES, unused, free Austron Loran C monitor, has two digital readouts and a 3 diagonal scope, free If you don't like a price, feel free to discuss it. Please write for details. Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net (no point in worrying about spam harvesters now) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:j.bastemei...@tudelft.nl title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Brandywine GPS-4
Dear All, I decided to switch on my Brandywine GPS-4 after some time on the shelf. After start-up it takes some time, then the Alarm-LED starts flashing... When I look at the data coming from the serial port it keeps saying L=load ESC=run. Unfortunately the unit doesn't respond to any command :-( So I have no clue what the cause of the error is. I suspect the microprocessor I checked the manual, but I couldn't find any information about this behaviour. Is there someone around here with a solution? Or maybe a service manual? BTW changing the power supply, didn't solve the problem. Current starts at a higher level and drops after some time when the OCXO is on temperature. Thank you, best regards, Jeroen begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:j.bastemei...@tudelft.nl title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Brandywine GPS-4
Dear Magnus, Thank you for your response! The unit used to work so dip-switch, cable etc. are OK. The thing I suspect is indeed, some problem with the FLASH and/or EPROM. However, I have no useful source of information about that. The initial question: L=load ESC=run has something to do with FLASH restore, I think. However, the unit doesn't seem to repond to the commands sent through the serial port. Do you know of any jumper inside which could be used to force a new load of the flash? When I open up the unit I see a number of jumpers inside, but I don't have a useful description of their function. 73 Jeroen PE1RGE Magnus Danielson wrote: Jeroen Bastemeijer skrev: Dear All, I decided to switch on my Brandywine GPS-4 after some time on the shelf. After start-up it takes some time, then the Alarm-LED starts flashing... When I look at the data coming from the serial port it keeps saying L=load ESC=run. Unfortunately the unit doesn't respond to any command :-( A few comments from my own flimsy attempts... Using a straight 9 pin cable to the PC does not work well. The serial port needs to the cut out so the other signals does not confuse things. Also, check the serial configuration details. The manual gives details on how the DIP switch should be set. The GPS4 has a FLASH and a EPROM image, so you could have entered the backup EPROM image flash download mode. You just reminded me that I need to make some more serious attempts to get it up and running with serial interface too. It locks up without serial cable, so it is only me messing with it. The GPS4 can be modified to be used for external clock steering of OCXO and Rubidium sources, just as the Thunderbolt can. Cheers, Magnus begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:j.bastemei...@tudelft.nl title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP 1600A logic analyzer manual
Dear All, A couple of weeks ago I send a request to the list for a HP 1600A logic analyzer manual. Hans Agema was kind enough to send his manual to me for scanning. I made a scan of the manual, which is now available to the whole group through Didiers website (www.ko4bb.com). Check the manuals section! Thanks to Hans and Didier! Best regards, Jeroen begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Make your own functional equivalent to a Huntron Tracker
Hi John, and others, That is a nice compilation! There is one thing all the testers have in common: They use a mains transformer to generate the AC-voltage (signal source). To make a more versatile unit I would suggest to use a small audio-transformer and use a lab-sinewave generator as signal source. This makes it possible to perform measurements at different frequencies. This could be handy when measuring circuits with coils and/or small capacitors. Good luck to all the builders and experimenters. Best regards, Jeroen John E Burgar wrote: These troubleshooting aids have also been known as an octopus and as a V/I curve tracer. Below are some links for schematics and details on their use. 1. http://octopus.freeyellow.com/octopus.html 2. http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public/TestEquip/CurveTracer.pdf 3. http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/tech/octopus.pdf 4. http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14191/css/14191_142.htm 5. http://www.electronics-lab.com/projects/test/018/ 6. A portion of chapter 5 of this Navy document describes the features and the use of the Huntron Tracker 2000. http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14188/index.htm Regards, John Burgar ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] huntron tracker advice troubleshooting without schematic advise
Hi Magnus, I totally agree with you. But doing a quick repair is more an art than a science ;-) By having some feeling for common faults it is easier to locate them. The Huntron tracker was of use for equipment which was almost impossible to service when under power. For example power-electronics with high voltages and nice little radios which consisted of a stack of boards, here it was impossible to probe around. The only solution was soldeing a wire to a component, assemble the whole thing, switch on measure... for testing another point, the whole procedure had to be repeated. Ok, for some equipment we used extension cables, but it was not always possible to use them. Some failures are very difficult to track: Firmware related problems. The only solution to that, was finding a working unit and copy the firmware to the faulty machine (e.g. EEPROM copying) But as I indicated in the beginning: Repairing is more like an art than a science. Over the years a whole bunch of tricks and strategies was developed to locate the faults and fix them. Repairing needs a solid background in electronics and a lot of experience. But: When you manage to repair something, it usually gives a lot of satisfaction! ;-) Best regards, Jeroen Magnus Danielson wrote: Jeroen Bastemeijer skrev: Hi Patrick, I saw a lot of replies to your question. Here are my five cents: The Huntron Tracker is very nice if you have two similar pieces of equipment (or circuit boards). From which: one is faulty, the other one still okay, or has a different fault. By probing around you can easily find the faulty part or component, by looking for differences in the Huntrons display. E.g. a faulty transitor will give a different curve, even when other circuitry is connected to it. You can do that, but you need to know what is expected. The easiest way to know that is to probe the same point on a working board. Otherwise you would need to think for yourself and here a factor of confusion comes in. Add the factor of unknown when you don't have a schematic. With two boards and no schematic you have a chance. There are a class of errors the Huntron can't find, errors internal to a chip or module. They do not need to show up at all. Consider for instance a bit error in an EPROM. One or a few bit errors may be exactly what is needed for a total failure. However, I used to work at an small repair shop. Here we also got lots of equipment for which the schematics were not available (usually it was classified or obsolete). Although we had access to a Huntron Tracker, we didn't use it much. Most of the time, a multimeter and some common sense did the trick. Indeed. But you do develop your strategies based on the tools you have. You could have chosen a tracker based strategy. One final remark, about the reply from Bruce; There are oscilloscopes out there who have the component tester (that is what he reffered to) built in. My first oscilloscope I bought, a Handykit, has the component-tester built-in. For that reason that scope is still with me ;-) If nothing else, it is a very good educational tool. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] huntron tracker advice troubleshooting without schematic advise
Hi Patrick, I saw a lot of replies to your question. Here are my five cents: The Huntron Tracker is very nice if you have two similar pieces of equipment (or circuit boards). From which: one is faulty, the other one still okay, or has a different fault. By probing around you can easily find the faulty part or component, by looking for differences in the Huntrons display. E.g. a faulty transitor will give a different curve, even when other circuitry is connected to it. However, I used to work at an small repair shop. Here we also got lots of equipment for which the schematics were not available (usually it was classified or obsolete). Although we had access to a Huntron Tracker, we didn't use it much. Most of the time, a multimeter and some common sense did the trick. One final remark, about the reply from Bruce; There are oscilloscopes out there who have the component tester (that is what he reffered to) built in. My first oscilloscope I bought, a Handykit, has the component-tester built-in. For that reason that scope is still with me ;-) Good luck, best regards, Jeroen Patrick wrote: Hi Everyone I have consistently had success repairing laboratory instruments(my small business) when I have a schematic and I have consistently failed without one, lots of opportunities are slipping threw my fingers. I want to invest in tools that will help me troubleshoot without a schematic. I was thinking about getting a Huntron tracker. Has anyone had any experience with one? Could you feedback? Are there other tools that have helped you fix circuit boards without a schematic? Thanks in advance-Patrick ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP1600A manual
Hi Dave, Thank you! Usually there is a section in the manual to do a quick performance test. If it would be possible to scan this part, that would help a lot! Thank you, looking forward to your next message. Best regards, Jeroen Dave Brown wrote: I have a mint 1600A plus manual (s?) here somewhere, Jeroen- will try to find it/them! Sorry, no digital copy though but I should be able to scan some of it for you. DaveB, NZ - Original Message - From: Jeroen Bastemeijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 10:10 PM Subject: [time-nuts] HP1600A manual Dear All, Is there anyone out there who has a digital copy of the HP 1600A logic analyzer manual? I found such an old machine, and I'm wondering if it is still working... There are manuals for sale for approx $50 (excl. shipping). However, the HP1600A seems not to be very responsive. So, investing $50 for a machine which is defective and probably cannot be repaired seems like a waste. Or is there anyone who can give a hint on how to test a HP 1600A, to get a good indication if it is still functioning (reasonably) okay. At this moment the machine seems to be locked up. Allthough there is a nice pattern of 1's and 0's on the screen Thanks, best regards Jeroen ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1757 - Release Date: 30/10/2008 14:35 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TBOLT communication
Hi Neville, I use USB-Serial converters. Brand isSweex, there is a common USB2serial chip inside. There was no need to modify anything (pull up resistors or what so ever). First I had communication, but from time to time strange behaviour. It made me think the Thunderbolt was faulty... I reported this to the Time-nust list. Someone suggested to update the driver , to the latest version. For me it worked out! It's working fine ever since. In you case you might do the following things: * connect a scope to the RS-232 pins to check the logic levels. * use the USB converter with another PC, maybe the USB port cannot supply the current needed (or use a USB-HUB with power supply in series). Good luck! 73 Jeroen PE1RGE Neville Michie wrote: Hi, I have just spent a week or two trying to talk to a Trimble Thunderbolt. I have a laptop running VISTA, about which there is little to say. The laptop has no serial ports, but I have some USB/Serial converters that successfully run my HP 3815A and a Samsung GCRU/D, and also communicate with my HOBO loggers. The USB/Serial converters are a little difficult to use, sometimes hanging, necessitating unplugging and plugging back in. They get assigned to various Port numbers but tend to keep the same number from day to day. The ports can be configured in the management function. However the TBOLT refuses to talk to the converter, to the extent that I thought that I must have damaged the TBOLT. Today, as a last resort, I remembered an old PC, dragged it out and stoked it up, and to my delight the TBOLT monitoring program ran without difficulty under Windows 2000 with a conventional serial port. Now I vaguely remember talk about RS232 communications and the need for pull up or down resistors and supplies, but searching the archives I could find nothing relevant. Can anyone tell me how I could run the TBOLT off a USB/Serial converter? cheers, Neville Michie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. begin:vcard fn:Jeroen Bastemeijer n:Bastemeijer;Jeroen org:Delft University of Technology;Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory adr:GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt. 46.2m;;Mekelweg 4;Delft;;2628CD;Netherlands email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Ing. tel;work:+31.15.278.6542 tel;fax:+31.15.278.5755 url:www.tudelft.nl version:2.1 end:vcard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PCB for frequency dividers
Dear Dave, If there is one board left, I would like to buy and try one. Shipping will be to the Netherlands, so that won't be a problem. Could you send met the BOM and the circuit diagram? Thank you, Best regards, Jeroen David C. Partridge schreef: I've taken a bit of a risk and ordered 20 boards. Rash in extreme or what! What does this mean? It means that I can sell the boards at a price of GBP20 each (about USD40). I will not request $$$ or ship any boards until I have made up my own first to confirm everything is OK. This won't be until end August as some parts are on back-order with Mouser. Please email me direct if you would like to pre-order any. If you would like a copy of the circuit diagram, or the BOM (.xls file) just shout (it's complete bar the thumbwheel switch, and wire). Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Agilent 58531A Software
Dear All, While cleaning up the mess in my office, I bumped into a Agilent/Symmetricom 58534A timing antenna which I acquired some time ago. At that time, I was busy with other things, so I put it aside. Now I want to have a further look, and I'm trying to locate the software package GPS Timing Receiver Analysis and Control Software from Agilent, PN 58531a. I have been searching the Symmetricom/Agilent website, but I didn't find a download of the software. Is thereanyone who has a copy of the software, or knows where to get/download it? Thank you, best regards, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt and USB to RS232 converters
Dear All, I upgraded the driver for the Prolific to the latest version, now it works fine! Thanks! It first used a Microsoft driver, dated a few years back. By the way, I'm using WinXP professional. Jeroen PE1RGE Didier Juges schreef: Hal, I have two Prolific adapters on a single hub, which is probably low speed (it was cheap). They work fine under XP, even though one of them is used with a program (development system) that has shown some finicky behavior when driving a serial input JTAG box with the old drivers. The other one drives my ham radio's serial port. The Thunderbolt is normally plugged into the hardware serial port COM 1 on this machine, I will try with the Prolific adapter just for grins. Didier KO4BB -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hal Murray Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 7:03 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt and USB to RS232 converters That's a good point. The older Prolific drivers had a nasty habit of crashing my laptop (Win XP would not wake up) if I put it in hibernation with the adapter plugged into the USB socket. The new drivers mostly fix the problem. I may occasionaly have to unplug and replug the device after waking up, but the OS no longer crashes. The SIRF GPS units use the Prolific chips. I have had mixed results with them on Linux. They don't work like I expect when I try to use several of them on a high speed hub. The Prolific chip wants some guaranteed bandwidth and Linux has troubles allocating it. I thought I found a kernel option to get around that, CONFIG_USB_EHCI_TT_NEWSCHED, but I tried to clean things up last night and mumble. I guess it helps but not as much as I though. Mumble. It may be the hub-hub case that doesn't work. I've got a 7 port hub which is really 2 4 port hubs chained. I haven't noticed any troubles without the hub. I'm not doing anything fancy. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt and USB to RS232 converters
Dear All, OK, thanks for the FTDI chip tip! I opened up mine, the chips they used are the PL2303 and the ZT213. The PL2303 is used for the USB to serial (TTL) conversion, the ZT213 is comparable to the MAX232 and the like. I will try to find another USB to serial converter (with the FTDI chip) and see if the behaviour changes. Best regards, Jeroen Prologix schreef: While I have no experience with Thunderbolt, I have tested a lot of USB-Serial converters and found ones with the FTDI chip to be the most reliable, hardware and software wise. http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODProduct_Code=U003 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Javier Herrero Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:13 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt and USB to RS232 converters I've been using it with Prolific PL2303 based converters with no problem at all (Aten brand, in my case). Regards, Javier Jeroen Bastemeijer escribió: Dear All, More and more people are starting to play with the Thunderbolts. I already received mine :-) Now playing around with them. First I powered it up and connected it to the normal serial port of the PC. The Thunderbolt behaved fine, self survey took some time, because the antenna is inside a concrete building with very limited view to the sky. However, next I did a test with the same Thunderbolt but now it was connected to a USB to Serial converter (brand is Sweex). After switchinhg it off and on, I expected the same behaviour as when it was connected to the real serial port. But... it started to behave very strange... instead of starting a normal survey, it started disciplining after a couple of minutes (almanac was not even valid). The DAC-voltage clipped to the power rail, and the SV and AMU-fields remained ?. Resetting (hot, cold, factory default) didn't make any difference. When power cycling the unit and connecting it back to the normal serial port the normal behaviour returned. I assume it has something to do with the USB to serial converter. Is there anyone else with similar experience? Or who has used a USB to serial converter with succes? Thank you, best regards, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thunderbolt and USB to RS232 converters
Dear All, More and more people are starting to play with the Thunderbolts. I already received mine :-) Now playing around with them. First I powered it up and connected it to the normal serial port of the PC. The Thunderbolt behaved fine, self survey took some time, because the antenna is inside a concrete building with very limited view to the sky. However, next I did a test with the same Thunderbolt but now it was connected to a USB to Serial converter (brand is Sweex). After switchinhg it off and on, I expected the same behaviour as when it was connected to the real serial port. But... it started to behave very strange... instead of starting a normal survey, it started disciplining after a couple of minutes (almanac was not even valid). The DAC-voltage clipped to the power rail, and the SV and AMU-fields remained ?. Resetting (hot, cold, factory default) didn't make any difference. When power cycling the unit and connecting it back to the normal serial port the normal behaviour returned. I assume it has something to do with the USB to serial converter. Is there anyone else with similar experience? Or who has used a USB to serial converter with succes? Thank you, best regards, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Auston 2100F
Dear Dan, Is the 2100 manual you mention available as a PDF? I think the time-nuts community is very interested in this kind of material. If you have an electronic version, would it be possible to make it available for download? Thank you, best regards, Jeroen Dan Rae schreef: Stanley Reynolds wrote: Looking for some more info on operation and if setting the Time Constant to 3200GRIs is important ? Also have not set the total emission delay as I'm guessing it has no effect except with the 2100T. Stanley, I have the manual for the 2100 (with no suffix), if there is anything specific from that you need. In this one the Time constant defaults to 2, corresponding to 800 GRIs, which works fine for me some 400 km from the secondary station I use and I have never felt the need to alter it. the chart output looks like it outputs a voltage between 0-15 volts at the start with it tending toward the millivolts volts as it continues In my 2100 the Phase Record output at the rear outputs from 0 to 1 Volt representing an accumulated phase shift of 1 or 10 µsecs at full scale. This sounds unlike yours. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Power supply for Thunderbolt
Dear David, I have no recipe for your thunderbolt powersupply, but the Ebay power supply you mention is not a linear power supply but a switching power supply! I have two Thunderbolts however, these boards came from Telecom and have a 48V switcher built in. So I use them in the same way as I use my Z3801. As a suggestion for your power supply: You could consider using multiple transformers. One for each voltage. This will lower the dissipation, certainly for the low 5V voltage. Good luck, Jeroen David C. Partridge schreef: I'm in the process of buying a Thunderbolt, and will need to provide it with some volts. I sat down over the weekend to design a linear supply for it. Initially things looked OK using a 12-0-12 transformer, and a few IC voltage regulators, but then I did some worst case design and dissipation analysis, and found that I needed to use a 15-0-15 transformer to allow for a -10% mains variation, and add pass transistors and lots of heat sinking to all the regulators to allow for a +10% mains variation. Add to that transformer regulation issues (over-size transformer), the time to design the PCB and the cost of getting it made, and things started to look expensive :-(. I can probably source a linear supply on eBay, but these are typically pretty large and heavy. For example: eBay item number 330201077319 So is it reasonable to use an SMPS, and add additional filtering to the output? Typically these talk in terms on 150mV ripple noise which I need to reduce by a factor of ten or better. If you have been there, done that, I'd be interested to hear what you did. Thanks Dave Partridge ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Trimble 23198-61
Dear Matthew, Attached you'll find I document which I'm planning to upload to my webpage (once it is activated). The TSIP settings you mention are correct, however TSIP is used on Port 2! (Port 1 can be configured for other protocols using TSIPCHAT). The time/date problem I already figured out... it is caused by the RTC-chip (Real Time Clock). Maybe replacing it by a compatible chip could solve this problem. If you have other questions just let me know! Best regards, Jeroen Matthew Smith schreef: Hi I have just found your mail to the time-nuts list from last November - did you find anything out about the 23198-61? I have one here, but don't even know how to wire it up - not sure whether the power requires +5V or if it has an on-board voltage regulator and requires, say, +9V. I'm assuming that the D connectors are both standard RS232 in voltage level and pin-out, and with the PPS on pin 9, as it is with the Trimble Ace II (which has a very similar box). Does this thing run TSIP at 9600-8-1-N when booted? Anything that you can tell me would be appreciated. The date problem you were having is something to do with the GPS week number; this explains it (in case you had not found out yet): http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/gps_week.html Cheers M -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m Trimble GPS receiver P.rtf Description: MS-Word document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Time-nut with a Trimble 23198-61/SV6
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Dear All, I'm looking for information on the Trimble 23198-61 GPS-Receiver. This is a metal case with two DB-9 connectors, a SMB antenna connection and a three pole power plug. If you want to see a picture, look on the webpage of Brooke (http://www.prc68.com/I/Trimpack.shtml#SV6) I send an E-mail to the support desk of Trimble, but I don't expect any response from them :-( I have the receiver running with TSIP (using TSIPmonitor from Trimble), the 1 PPS is coming out happily :-) Funny thing, they are not Year 2000 and something compatible... when looking at the date it says '1988' for the year, which corresponds to a roll-over of the counter after 1024. Doing the math, and adding the 1024 to the GPS-date gives the proper answer. My question: I'm looking for more information and software utillities. Is there anyone with docs (PDF?) and/or the flash-utillities of this receiver? The firmware version is 4.06. (The 5.12 version from Trimble seems to work, but not for the full 100% for these receivers). Thank you, best regards, 73 Jeroen PE1RGE -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] QCM
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Dear Ulrich, You question is not as much off-topic as you might think. It is all about frequency stability and resonators ;-) In the past I used to work with SAW-devices and micro-balances. We developed our own sensors and electronics. Search for names like Jakoby, Vellekoop, Lubking and my name and you will find the info. We even did research on zero temperature TC SAW devices. The TC was not exactly zero but very small compared to the state of the art in those days. The zero TC was achieved by choosing a certain cut-angle of the quartz. Together with some other mechanisms (TC of other parts) this resulted in an almost zero TC behaviour. For measuring small quantities (small mass) SAW is a very good option too. The advantage is that the relative permitivity of the substance doesn't influence the measurement. The SAW has a area which can be exposed but where no electrical signals are present. For measuring humidity I would suggest to use porous silicon instead of a QCM. A QCM will depend on a chemical reactive layer which will change over time and probably will be reactive to other components as well. In our experiments we never liked those chemical reactive layers as they where never reliable enough. Their characteristics were changing all the time 73 Jeroen PE1RGE Ulrich Bangert schreef: ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Gentlemen, again my question is a bit OT: Has anyone of you personal experience with QCMs (Quarz Crystal Microbalances) and give me a recommendation on a) what surface coating is suggested if the aim is to measure small amounts of humidity in clean air b) where such crystals may be supplied from in small quantities c) or if anyone is aware of a ready to go humidity sensor based on QCM technology Best regards and TIA Ulrich Bangert www.ulrich-bangert.de Ortholzer Weg 1 27243 Gross Ippener Germany ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] E1938
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Dear All, After some shipping time, my E1938 arrived today! :-) :-) :-) Thank you Rick! First thing was examining the board, oscillator and the HP-test notes/labels. Most of the specs mentioned there are logical and numbers are very reasonable. ;-) However, one spec drew my attention: Hz off freq. after warm up: -2,94. Does anyone know what it means? Is this the offset after warm-up without EFC applied? The unit hasn't been powered up. Whit the hardware at hand I first want to read some docs to be sure about what I'm doing. For comparison, what other numbers are around for the Hz off freq. after warm up-spec? Final result of the HP-test was: PASS. So, I assume this number is OK. What is your opinion? Looking forward to your reactions. 73 Jeroen PE1RGE -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP85814A - Programmable frequency reference
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY Dear All, I'm looking for information (e.g. a manual) or people who have experience with the HP85814A Plug-in. It is a plug in for the HP8660x main-frame. It replaces both the modulation module and the RF-module. The display shows the M and N numbers of the PLL division in binary format. The name of the module: Programmable frequency reference. The module has no accessible RF-output on the front. The only reference I found was in an old HP-Journal: www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1972-02.pdf Here it is used as a part of an automatic spectrum-analyzer system (working up till 18 GHz). The article only describes the general system setup, unfortunately not much detailed information on the module itself. Searching the Agilent website didn't return any usefull information. Any information is welcome! Thank you, 73 Jeroen PE1RGE -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Interesting Austron stuff
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear All, A question out of quriosity: On EBAY there ar items offerd like 290135672948 and 290135649872 . These seem to be part of a modular frequency reference system (LORAN or GPS based) Does anyone know or own these kind of systems? This question is just for the quriosity, the items offered are overpriced (to my opinion). Best regrads, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Vectron oscillator data
Dear All, Can someone provide me with the pin-out of a Vectron 244-4799-2 oscillator? It has a SMA output and a DB-9 connector for power supply. Other data (stability, supply voltage) is welcome as well! Thank you, best regards, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator
Dear Richard, I have some former colleagues who went to the US. Please give some time to contact them. I will mail back to you soon. Thank you, best regards, Jeroen Bastemeijer Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: I would like to ship to only USA addresses. Can you provide a USA shipping address? Rick Karlquist, N6RK -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dr Bruce Griffiths Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:53 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP E1938 oscillator Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: AFAIK, there is no manual on the E1938 (in the sense of the 10811 manual). And I should know. I am attempting to compile what information I have and get it archived on line somewhere. Can you give me a pointer to the stuff on TVB's site so I make sure I am not reinventing the wheel? I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone wants one. They are in worked the last time it was turned on, but no guarantee of specs condition. I can't accept money for these units. Rick Karlquist N6RK E1938A circuit designer Rick Link to TVB's webpage on E1938A: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/ I'd like a couple of the surplus E1938A's however I'm in New Zealand. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup
Dear Norm and others, Had the same experience with the seller (Maybe it was the same counter?) Got my money back finally, but it took several weeks. We agreed on the refund of the money for the unit and the shipping. I kept the wacky counter as a refund for the customs duties and taxes I had to pay. Shortly after, I bought an 5370B from a non-technical seller, which came perfectly packed, even better cosmetic condition and works perfectly. for a lower price! 73 Jeroen PE1RGE Norman J McSweyn wrote: Apropos the conversation: Techrecovery sold me a 5370a that was toast. The customer service guy gave me a runaround for six weeks trying to first get another instrument and after I gave that up as a lost cause, then a refund. I had to threaten to get MasterCard involved. My MO is to give the feedback that is deserved. Screw my feedback rating. It hurts the seller more than the buyer. Happy ebaying! Norm n3ykf ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] NTP Synchronised Nixie Tube Clock
Dear Pieter-Tjerk, Nice to see your work on the Web! Two years ago I saw your neon-circuits (counters, dividers etc) on the Dag van de Amateur (a Dutch HAM-vention). Unfortunately you were not present at your display, but I was very interested. Now I have a chance to have a close look at your circuits! 73s Jeroen PE1RGE Pieter-Tjerk de Boer wrote: On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 02:09:53PM -0400, Maggie Leber wrote: Perhaps my hard core requirement should be restated as no transistors rather than no semiconductors. :-) In that case, I guess my clock also qualifies: it uses neon lamps as its active components. The only semiconductors used are simple diodes and two blue LEDs. See http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~ptdeboer/ham/neonclock/ . 73, Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Audiophoolery
I can't sleep either. I'm not allowed to, because I'm at work ;-) Funny thing those time-zones. Certainly in combination with groups (in this case the time-nuts) which gather worldwide through the internet! Regards, Jeroen Bill Hawkins wrote: Well, stupid may not be the right word. It seems to be human nature to want to be part of a group that is somehow better than other groups. That actually had some evolutionary survival value at one time. Groups form all the time - religious, political, technical, even time-nuts. Some of the things they believe do not seem rational. Audiophiles are just another group, but the membership dues are kind of high. You can also see how the group has been manipulated by predators to increasing heights of expensive fantasies. There are parallels in religion and politics. Again, it's human nature. Surely, there's no one in this group that has bought an expensive instrument just to keep up with the group. I am not now and never have been an audiophile. It just bothers me when someone writes off complex human behavior with a single epithet. Bill Hawkins ... who can't sleep and probably shouldn't have written this. It is not an attack on Mr. Kimberly, whose posts have been a fount of information. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob Kimberley Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 2:15 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Audiophoolery Wow, got to get one :-) Rob K PS just goes to show how stupid a lot of people are out there in ga ga land. ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] Quarzkeramik Oscillator specs wanted
Dear All, I'm looking for the specs of the Quarzkeramik GmbH (KQ) 10 MHz oscillator. Type 2100C - S29 These were manufactured around 1993. Operating frequency 10 MHz. QK was acquired bij KVG in the late 90's. Hope someone has an old databook on the shelf. Thanks, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] FEI FE-5680A Rubidium Pinout
Dear Time Nuts, This post was time ago but at this moment I'm working on my FE-5680. I had to replace a 74HCT74 IC inside the unit to get the 1 PPS out. Now I'm wondering what the other pins are used for. As far as I have figured out now the following pins are used: 1 +15V 2 gnd 3 lock low = unlock high 4 n.c. (this unit has an internal +5 V logic to drive the 2^23 divider chain; this generates the 1 pps from the 8, MHz) 5 gnd 6 1 pps out 7 ? 8 ? 9 ? Inside I find a small PCB directly behind the DB-9 connector. I guess this is a smart C-field adjustment. It has three wires going to the motherboard. +5 V, Gnd and an analog voltage. I guess this voltage is slowly varied over the lifetime of the unit by using an internal counter/clock, to adjust the C-field. Just curious about the knowledge which is accumulated in the Time-Nuts community about these units... Best regards, Jeroen Rex wrote: On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:52:03 -0500, James Meek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just found the time-nuts mail list, and the threads concerning the programming of the FEI FE-5680A rubidium frequency sources that some have bought on ebay and been unable to program. I, too, bought one of these from an internet source last year (a different source from the one mentioned in the thread I found), and was unable to get anything out of it by simply powering it up and connecting to it through its 10-pin interface using the pinouts for a standard FE-5680A. However, mine did not come naked or on a cut-off section of PC board like those I've seen advertised on ebay since then. Rather, it came attached to a large board containing several voltage regulators, a serial interface buffer, a serial EPROM chip, and some other logic. Although I have not yet found the time to fully analyze the circuitry, it appears to have been set up so as to program the FE-5680A from the serial EPROM. I have no idea whether it needs to receive a command from an external source to initiate that programming, or whether it happens at power-on (perhaps with the clocking of the serial EPROM by the FE-5680A itself?). I read that Rex and Brian Kirby have figured out that the unit needs a +5V supply (or perhaps just a logic input) in addition to the 15V supply in order to get any output. If someone could provide me with specifics on that and anything else they've discovered about this part, I'd have a lot more incentive to try to figure out what the EPROM does -- and of course would share my findings with all here. JM Here's what I worked out for the pins on the DB-9 on my5680A... 1 +15V near 2A initially, dropping to about .8A warm 2 gnd 3 lock high = unlock 4 +5V about 160 mA 5 gnd 6 1 pps out 7 10 MHz out 8 RS-232 Rx (into rubidium) 9 RS-232 Tx (from rubidium) The initial impression from the seller was that only 15V was needed. The info on the FEI pages don't mention needing 5V in any option. A lot of the pin functions are different from any description I have seen. I think I have the same full board you have. I looked at it back around the beginning of the year. If I remember right, the RS-232 pins of the rubidium get fed from off-board signals. I did power it up using this board once. There is a dual color led at the edge of the board that indicates lock state, if I remember right. Does your board have a sticker on it somewhere that says: SGLA4000B High Stability Osc Assembly? After lots if web searching, I figured that this seems to be part of older Motorola Cell equipment. I found a site that says they repair them. I tried sending an email asking if they have any documentation, but got no reply. Maybe later I can find time to scan the board. What I remember from the hacking I did, was that there didn't seem to be anything intelligent going on on the board. I don't remember any details though, maybe I missed something. Oh, on the side of the rubidium there is an adjustment screw. I thought for sure this would adjust the C-field and hence the freq, but I don't see any result by turning this. No idea what it is for. I tried all sorts of things sent to the serial port but never saw any effect or reply. I tried this at various baud rates. I also scoped the other side of the MAX3232 chip inside, so I know the data was getting in there. The other port of the MAX3232 is connected too. It goes to what must be a maintenance header inside. Nothing interesting came from trying that port too. So, if you feed it both 5V and 15V, I'd bet your unit will come up and give you 1 pps and 10 MHz. If, like mine, the frequency is a little bit off, it sure would be nice to know how to adjust it. -Rex, KK6MK ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation
Re: [time-nuts] 5370a manual
Thank you, Didier. I had a quick look the manual looks the same as the one on the website of Beuce. Best regards, Jeroen Didier Juges wrote: The 5370A (and B) service manual is also at www.ko4bb.com/ham_radio/Manuals Didier KO4BB Jeroen Bastemeijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, I have problems accessing the 5370A manual on the Agilent website?! Accessing the 5370B manual is nor problem. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] 5370a manual
Dear All, I have problems accessing the 5370A manual on the Agilent website?! Accessing the 5370B manual is nor problem. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] 5370a manual
Bruce, Thank you! Best regards, Jeroen Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Jeroen Bastemeijer wrote: Dear All, I have problems accessing the 5370A manual on the Agilent website?! Accessing the 5370B manual is nor problem. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jeroen Jeroen Try http://www.g8wrb.org/data/HP/HP5370A.pdf Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPS: Lat N52.2 Lon E4.37157 Alt 46.2m ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Bad batch of HP10811's
Dear Bruce, Time-Nuts, Sorry for the silence it was a long weekend. I checked the oscillator, the serial number was: 1528A10107 If I'm correct this means it was manufactured in week 28 of 1975. A pity that the cold frequency-offset is nowhere metioned, except for the HP-Journal article. Best regards, Jeroen Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote: Jeroen Bastemeijer wrote: Dear Time-nuts, New info on an old subject: I opened the counter (5345A) to check what kind of oscillator was inside. It was a 10544A instead of a 10811A!!! I checked for a datasheet of the 10544 but I couldn't find it. Luckily I ran across an article in HP Journal. See the quote below: Warmup. The 10811A/B Oscillator cuts the 10544/B/C warmup time specification in half: 10 minutes for the 10811A/B compared to 20 minutes for the 10544A/B/C Oscillator. Warmup time is defined as the time between oscillator oven turn-on and the time when the output frequency is within 0.05 Hz of the operating frequency, In portable instruments, where battery weight must be minimized, low power and quick warmup are crucial. Since the instrument warmup time is likely to be much shorter than the oscillator warmup time, the latter usually dominates. A side benefit of the 10811A/B is that its frequency just after oven turn-on is only 100 Hz low compared to 1 kHz low for the 1054aA/B/C. This allows faster lock-in for instruments using phaselocked loops. Bottom line: The 10544 gives a higher offset at switch-on compared to the 10811. Only thing to do now is find a datasheet to verify it with real numbers, as my oscillator was 1700 Hz off (compared to 1 kHz in the article) and Didiers' oscillator was 200Hz off (compared to 100 Hz in the article). Is there a link to the 10544 datasheet somewhere out there??? Have a nice weekend, Jeroen Jeroen There are at least 2 versions of the 10544A. After the initial production models modifications were made to improve the phase noise specs. The oscillator, oven controller and oven supply volatage specifications also changed after this modification. I have a set of datasheets dated: 1 October 1972, July 75, July 1976. There is no specification on the datasheet for the frequency offset at startup with a cold oven. Any idea when your oscillator was manufactured? Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt - Hardware Versions - PerformanceDifferenences
Dear Time-Nuts, I think for most of the people on the list just want to have one for fun. Probably most of them have some more serious GPS standards already. I checked the $375,= offer on Ebay its seems the guy Googled a bit and found a nice Thunderbolt description on the Trimble website. Some copy pasting and the GPS receiver he is offering was upgraded to Cesium stability. From looking at the pictures of what he is offering, the receiver doesn't look like a Thunderbolt to me... Check e.g. the receiver section, it looks stripped down when you compare it to the real Thunderbolt version pictures (website and manual). Maybe this was an economy-class version For the rest the advertisement is vague. He gives no real technical data. Is someone able to verify the product-number at Trimble? And find the real specs? Maybe not everyone will agree, but I think, based on the information we have from Ebay, $100-$125 is a fair price for these units. Regards, Jeroen Norman J McSweyn wrote: Connie and the group: I think he's fishing. The auction has a three day term. One of the rules of ebay is you can list it for any price you'd like. No one has to buy it, though. I'm for sub $200 pricing. I don't need one either. Just another toy. Norm ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Bad batch of HP10811's
Dear Time-nuts, New info on an old subject: I opened the counter (5345A) to check what kind of oscillator was inside. It was a 10544A instead of a 10811A!!! I checked for a datasheet of the 10544 but I couldn't find it. Luckily I ran across an article in HP Journal. See the quote below: Warmup. The 10811A/B Oscillator cuts the 10544/B/C warmup time specification in half: 10 minutes for the 10811A/B compared to 20 minutes for the 10544A/B/C Oscillator. Warmup time is defined as the time between oscillator oven turn-on and the time when the output frequency is within 0.05 Hz of the operating frequency, In portable instruments, where battery weight must be minimized, low power and quick warmup are crucial. Since the instrument warmup time is likely to be much shorter than the oscillator warmup time, the latter usually dominates. A side benefit of the 10811A/B is that its frequency just after oven turn-on is only 100 Hz low compared to 1 kHz low for the 1054aA/B/C. This allows faster lock-in for instruments using phaselocked loops. Bottom line: The 10544 gives a higher offset at switch-on compared to the 10811. Only thing to do now is find a datasheet to verify it with real numbers, as my oscillator was 1700 Hz off (compared to 1 kHz in the article) and Didiers' oscillator was 200Hz off (compared to 100 Hz in the article). Is there a link to the 10544 datasheet somewhere out there??? Have a nice weekend, Jeroen Didier Juges wrote: Warmup data on the HP 10811: Here is some data collected on the internal HP 10811 timebase in my HP 5370A counter, which had been turned off and plugged off for about 3 days. 21:39:25, 798.6 21:39:35, 806.0 21:39:46, 822.6 21:39:55, 836.8 21:40:06, 853.2 21:40:15, 866.8 21:40:26, 881.7 21:40:35, 892.4 21:40:46, 904.1 21:40:56, 913.1 21:40:58, 915.2 21:41:07, 923.0 21:41:16, 930.1 21:41:25, 936.5 21:41:36, 944.0 21:41:46, 949.3 21:41:55, 954.3 21:42:06, 959.9 21:42:15, 964.0 21:42:26, 968.6 21:42:35, 971.8 21:42:45, 975.2 21:42:54, 977.9 21:43:05, 981.0 21:43:17, 983.9 21:43:26, 985.9 21:43:35, 987.8 21:43:46, 990.0 21:43:55, 991.3 21:44:07, 992.9 21:44:16, 994.0 21:44:25, 994.9 21:44:36, 996.1 21:44:45, 996.9 21:44:56, 997.7 21:45:06, 998.3 21:45:15, 998.9 21:45:17, 999.0 21:45:19, 999.1 21:45:21, 999.2 21:45:24, 999.3 21:45:26, 999.4 21:45:36, 999.7 21:45:45, 999.8 21:45:56, 999.9 21:46:05, 999.9 21:46:08, 999.9 21:46:10, 1000.0 After that, the display was a stable 10,000,000.0 for the next 15 minutes (one reading was 10,000,000.1), then I stopped the data collection. The counter used was the HP 5334B with the Thunderbolt as external reference. Ambient temperature: about 22 degrees C (cool) Bottom line: about 200 Hz from a cold start and about 7 minutes to within 0.1 Hz of final frequency. Didier KO4BB Didier Juges wrote: That is interesting. I have not checked the 10811 for that particular behavior, but I have checked a number of cheap, non TC crystal oscillators, and the initial drift has always been much smaller, in the order of 100's of Hz, not 1,000's, scaled for 10 MHz. I refer to the crystal oscillators inside my various ham radio gear and non-TCXO controlled instruments, such as the 5334B counter I have. It may be due to the fact that the crystal in the HP 10811 is optimized for flat temperature sensitivity around the operating point of the oven, when the cheap crystals I have checked are optimized around ambient (if they are optimized at all). I have several 10811's here (one by itself, the others inside instruments) and now that you picked my attention, I have to do the test :-) It's easy to plot it against the Thunderbolt with a counter hooked to the GPIB controller and with my logging software running. I shall report here soon :-) Didier KO4BB Jeroen Bastemeijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Time-nuts, Just a quick experiment. I started with the cold 10811 OCXO (switched off for 24 hours). I connected it to a counter and noted the frequency every 30 seconds. (last two measurement each 5 minutes). You can see the curve in the attached PDF. The offset at t=0 was 1706 Hz (Compared to 10.00MHz). After 10 minutes warm-up the total offset is 0.75Hz (compared to 10.00MHz) and offset is 0.12Hz from the final value. According to the spec the offset should be within 5*10^-9. From this I conclude the oscillator is not faulty. Sorry, Didier ;-) The possible reason for this offset is probably not the crystal, but the tempco of the rest of the circuit. The oven heats up till about 82 degrees centigrade. A PN-juntcion at room temperature (22 degrees) will increase 60 degrees in temperrature, it's forward voltage will change by approx. 120 mV! This change
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Purchase Person's list
Hello Colin, Seems the Thunderbolt project is growing ;-) From the mails I see on the reflector, I conclude that a lot of people are willing to buy more units (than indicated / listed) if the price is right. Maybe something to consider in the negociations with the seller. For a lower price the seller can sell more (and hopefully for him earn more), and we can have more fun! Good luck, and thanks for keeping the list, Jeroen Colin Bradley wrote: Here is the latest Thunderbolt purchase list. It is now near 40 units. Colin Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3 units Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Robert E. Martinson[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit John Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 or 2 Hal Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Said Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Scott Newell[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Jason Rabel [EMAIL PROTECTED]1 unit Jeroen Bastemeijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Howard W. Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Larry Gadallah [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Elio Corbolante[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Jim L Palfreyman [EMAIL PROTECTED]1 unit Norman J McSweyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1+ units Hiro Takagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2 units Christopher Hoover [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Robert Delien [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit David Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Steve Courts[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit John Ackermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1unit Bjorn Gabrielsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2 units Marc Bury[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Jose V. Gavila [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Javier Herrero [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Connie Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Joe Landers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Dave Andersen[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Tom Frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Hans Agema [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Brooks Shera [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Chuck Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Edwin B. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Peter Vince [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Phil Staton[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Colin Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367 ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt
Hello Colin, Count me in for 1 unit. Regards, Jeroen Colin Bradley wrote: Here is the updated list of persons who have expressed an interest is the Thunderbolt group purchase. Colin Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3 units Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Robert E. Martinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit John Miles[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 or 2 Hal Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Said Jackson[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Scott Newell[EMAIL PROTECTED] ? Jason Rabel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Jeroen Bastemeijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? Howard W. Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Larry Gadallah [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Elio Corbolante[EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Jim L Palfreyman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Norman J McSweyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1+ units Hiro Takagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2 units Christopher Hoover [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Robert Delien [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit David Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1 unit Colin Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food Drink QA. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545367 ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolts available (maybe in quantity)
Dear Time-nuts, Would it be possible to send them to Europe as well? The seller only sells (direct) to the US according to Ebay. Al lot of nice things only ship to the US :-( Best regards, Jeroen PE1RGE Jason Rabel wrote: I would be up for buying one too if you could get it in the $200-$250 price range, maybe two if you could get them cheaper. If he truly has a few hundred to offload I would think you could do a group purchase for $200 or maybe even less for a bulk order. To be cautious though, I would see if he would let you purchase just one unit initially to test out and verify everything before making the plunge. Has anyone emailed him yet? Any volunteers? Jason ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Bad batch of HP10811's
Dear All, Luckily I haven't had anything to do with the she from Ebay. However, working on the university, sometimes with a low budget, we once bought a second hand spectrum analyzer. We didn't buy through Ebay, but from a well known professional second hand seller in Europe. When the unit arrived, one of the handles was bent in such a way that someone must have noticed before shipping. There was no shipping damage on the outside of the box, so it must have happened at the seller. When I contacted them, they said it was impossible an instrument would have left their shop with such damage I didn't want to start a big discussion and agreed on getting a new handle. The instrument itself worked perfect (luckily :-) ). My point: There is no warranty when buying second hand equipment. (Not even new equipment, which sometimes arrives working not at all (no it wasn't cheap China-made stuff)). Even professional sellers make mistakes. So always be carefull, and check carefully what you get! Regards, Jeroen Jason Rabel wrote: Yeah I just realized after reading my post it was kind of missing a few key details. It was actually an one of those 10811-60155's from the initial big batch on eBay that I sent back (never tested) because one of the standoffs was bent so it wouldn't mount properly. I didn't want to try re-bending the standoff back for fear of damaging the unit. Also, the standoff was bent outwards, if it was dropped or something it would have bent in. She who shall remain nameless said it was okay and would mail a refund (since she didn't have another to exchange it with at the time, and admitted wanting to keep one for herself to tinker with), but today it shows back up on my doorstep after nearly a month with a note. *sigh* Basically the note said she would have noticed the standoff being bent that much and that it didn't happen in her shop (yet there is no way it could have happened during shipping, and I certainly didn't do it). But then also that she tested it out and well, the info I gave you before. If you want to see a pic of the bent standoff, here's what I'm talking about. http://www.rabel.org/archives/Images/Misc/ I'm going to hook it up tomorrow when I get to the office and see what happens. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't... I'll report back with some more detailed findings either way. I have to admit, the evil side of me is hoping that it doesn't work, just so I have an excuse to take it apart and see the inner workings. *grin* Side Note - Didn't get a chance to tinker with my shera board today with all the suggestions everyone gave, it was just one thing after another at the office and before I knew it the whole day was shot. Jason The oscillator and oven run on separate power supplies. Your posting is ambiguous. I don't know whether you are talking about the oscillator or the oven. Rick ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Bad batch of HP10811's
Hello Marco, Good point! The seller I was talking about gives six months of warranty. I ment warranty in a general way: There is no warranty that the equipment will arrive in the way you expect. E.g. without stupid damage, like a bent handle. And off course: nobody is perfect (I make mistakes as well ;-) ). Jeroen Marco wrote: At 09.26 17/01/2007, Jeroen wrote: ... My point: There is no warranty when buying second hand equipment.. Even professional sellers make mistakes. So always be carefull, and check carefully what you get! Regards, Jeroen Jeroen, Of course all sellers make mistakes, but it is not true that second hand equipment comes without warranty. At least my company gives a full six month (and sometimes 12 months) warranty on second hand equipment, parts and labour. We warrant the item to pass the performance verification, and to comply with the original specs, and to remain in specs for the warranty period. A bent handle may happen; if the transit damage can't be demonstrated we would have sent a new handle for free - less expensive than upsetting a customer :-) but of course this depends on company policies. Marco ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Bad batch of HP10811's
Dear Time-nuts, Just a quick experiment. I started with the cold 10811 OCXO (switched off for 24 hours). I connected it to a counter and noted the frequency every 30 seconds. (last two measurement each 5 minutes). You can see the curve in the attached PDF. The offset at t=0 was 1706 Hz (Compared to 10.00MHz). After 10 minutes warm-up the total offset is 0.75Hz (compared to 10.00MHz) and offset is 0.12Hz from the final value. According to the spec the offset should be within 5*10^-9. From this I conclude the oscillator is not faulty. Sorry, Didier ;-) The possible reason for this offset is probably not the crystal, but the tempco of the rest of the circuit. The oven heats up till about 82 degrees centigrade. A PN-juntcion at room temperature (22 degrees) will increase 60 degrees in temperrature, it's forward voltage will change by approx. 120 mV! This change will lead to a significant change in circuit properties (e.g. of the oscillator and the attached AGC circuit). Probably this was the reason HP specfied it's oscillator first after 10 mins of warm-up. This makes me wonder: If an oscillator gives a big offset, the ovencontroller may be faulty... not working at all, or not getting warm enough. Jeroen PE1RGE The raw data: Time Frequncy [MHz] Offset [Hz] 09,9982941706 309,9984051595 609,9986451355 909,9988541146 1209,999038962 1509,999197803 1809,999349651 2109,999466534 2409,999569431 2709,999666334 3009,99974260 3309,999804196 3609,999858142 3909,0694 4209,402759,73 4509,669633,04 4809,863313,67 5109,99790,21 54010,0062-0,62 5709,99580,41999 6009,99250,75 9009,99330,67 12009,99370,63001 Didier Juges wrote: That sounds like an awful lot of drift, absolutely inconsistent with a crystal oscillator of any kind. Either this OCXO is really sick, and just happen to end up at the right frequency by accident, or it is an OCO (Oven Controlled Oscillator :-) Didier KO4BB Jeroen Bastemeijer wrote: Dear Rick, Are you sure the 500Hz is too much for a cold oven? I checked my 5345A (recently acquired) counter, which was switched off for some time. Measuring the frequency directly after applying power and switching on, resulted in about 1640 Hz frequency offset. After warm up, the error is below 0.4 Hz. (The unit used here is a 10811a). The error drops pretty fast, allthough I didn't measure an accurate curve. Is the frequency difference caused by the tempco of the oscillator circuit? Cheers, 73s Jeroen PE1RGE ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10811coldstart.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Bad batch of HP10811's
Dear Rick, Are you sure the 500Hz is too much for a cold oven? I checked my 5345A (recently acquired) counter, which was switched off for some time. Measuring the frequency directly after applying power and switching on, resulted in about 1640 Hz frequency offset. After warm up, the error is below 0.4 Hz. (The unit used here is a 10811a). The error drops pretty fast, allthough I didn't measure an accurate curve. Is the frequency difference caused by the tempco of the oscillator circuit? Cheers, 73s Jeroen PE1RGE Rick Karlquist wrote: I'll apolgize on behalf of HP for putting in that stupid thermal fuse. It cannot be soldered in for the obvious reason that the soldering temperature exceeds the fusing temperature. Therefore, it must be socketed. It does NOT have gold plated leads, and hence the reliability of the contact with the socket is poor. I think the reason for it was that if the oven ran away, the thermal foam would burn up and out-gas toxic fumes. Ovens very rarely run away. The unit that is 500 Hz off is not due to a cold oven. There isn't that much tempco in the crystal. Rick Karlquist N6RK John Miles wrote: That's almost always caused by the thermal fuse on the outer PCB. They tend to open up due to aging. Just short it out... it was a ridiculous place to put a thermal fuse anyway. -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jack Hudler Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 12:00 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bad batch of HP10811's Who sold them? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Amos Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 1:41 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Bad batch of HP10811's Time-nuts, Seems like a bad batch of HP10811's was dumped on e-bay over the holidays... Some (at least 2) won't tune up to 10MHz: one won't adjust above 9,999,530 and the other peaks around 9,999,920 after warming up for a day or so. It seems to stay on frequency (albeit the wrong one...) I did some preliminary checks (internal reference voltages, OK, etc.) I'm thinking that it must be a bad crystal to be this far off. C'est une cause perdue? (I.e. did I buy a parts unit?) Mark ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] TF Equipment
Hallo Erik, Als Time-nut bij deze de beste wensen voor 2007! Las vandaag je mail met betrekking tot de apparatuur die je in de aanbieding hebt. Ik realiseer me dat ik niet erg snel ben, maar ik ben mogelijk geinteresseerd in de volgende zaken: Tracor Rubidium 305D Tracor 895A Phase comparator HP 3570B Interval counter +HPIB SR620 Interval counter, Het e.e.a. hangt ook van de prijs af. Kun je aangeven wat je hiervoor in gedachten hebt? En of het nog beschikbaar is?! Overigens, regelmatig kijk ik naar Cesium-standaarden. Europa lijkt geen goede bron voor dit soort apparaten. Ik zie ze regelmatig op Ebay in de VS, maar die worden vaak niet verstuurd naar Europa of kosten een fortuin. Heb jij enig idee of een Cesium-standaard hier in Nederland/Europa te koop is voor een leuke prijs? Met vriendelijke groet, Jeroen Bastemeijer Erik Kroon wrote: Hello Time Nuts, For private matters I will stop my hobby at the frequency field. I think to sell my instruments if any is interested, I can put it on ebay or sell direct. The equipment I have is; HP5061 (not working HV 2.5 kV defective condition of the high Performance tube is unknown), Tracor Rubidium 305D, Tracor 895A Phase comparator, HP 3570B Interval counter +HPIB, SR620 Interval counter, HP3545 counter,Marconi 2305 High Pref. Modulation meter, Marconi 2019 signal Generator,Marconi 2440 20 GHz counter, Leitch CSD5300 Master Clock, Yokogawa AG1200 ARB Generator, Yokogawa DL5140 500MHz 4ch digital Oscilloscope. BK 2033 High resolution signal analyser. I think above instruments could be used for frequency measurements. If interested please contact me a [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will still working on the TF field for my work using CS clocks and TWSTFT transfer. You can't beat it at home. Best regards, Erik Kroon ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] TF Equipment - Sorry
Sorry for the post in Dutch, It was ment for Erik, not for the whole group. Best regards, Jeroen PE1RGE Erik Kroon wrote: Hello Time Nuts, For private matters I will stop my hobby at the frequency field. I think to sell my instruments if any is interested, I can put it on ebay or sell direct. The equipment I have is; HP5061 (not working HV 2.5 kV defective condition of the high Performance tube is unknown), Tracor Rubidium 305D, Tracor 895A Phase comparator, HP 3570B Interval counter +HPIB, SR620 Interval counter, HP3545 counter,Marconi 2305 High Pref. Modulation meter, Marconi 2019 signal Generator,Marconi 2440 20 GHz counter, Leitch CSD5300 Master Clock, Yokogawa AG1200 ARB Generator, Yokogawa DL5140 500MHz 4ch digital Oscilloscope. BK 2033 High resolution signal analyser. I think above instruments could be used for frequency measurements. If interested please contact me a [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will still working on the TF field for my work using CS clocks and TWSTFT transfer. You can't beat it at home. Best regards, Erik Kroon ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
[time-nuts] Manual Wandel Goltermann SPM-30
Dear Time-nuts, I'm planning to do some field-strength measurements of DCF-77. Therefore I acquired a selective level meter (Wandel Goltermann SPM-30) on Ebay. First thing is checking and maybe modifying (more accurate time-base) the level-meter. Is there someone who has a copy of the manual ? Thanks, best regards, Jeroen -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] [hp_agilent_equipment] 5371A CRT problem
Dear Steve, I have a HP 5371A. Last year during a hot summer period the display went wrong. The size of the displayed information started to blow up and collapse repeatedly. I suspected a thermal problem. This happened shortly before the manuals became available on the internet. So I did some reverse engineering, a phone-call to Agilent and searching on the internet. What I finally came up with, was resoldering the CRT-board (no fancy SMD-components there) and the unit worked fine. Maybe this can solve your problem. Furthermore, the CRT-unit woks quite simple, with an oscilloscope you can check for the power supply (extreme ripple?) and synchronization signals. This might point out if the problem is in the CRT unit or on the graphics-card. Good luck, best regards, Jeroen John Day wrote: Oops! sorry fr the reply-all folks, resulted in a cross-post! Steve, The CRT controller in the 5371A is a stock standard Motorola MC6845P, the timing is discussed in the theory of operation section and it seems there is nothing more than two sync signals and a three level video signal that goes to the CRT assembly. John ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] IC for 1 PPS Output
Dear Time-nuts, From a more theoretical point of view: The source impedance is not such a big issue in a one way distribution system. The most important thing is the load resistance (or impedance). Reflections in a cable will be caused by the load-mismatch not by the source. As power transfer is not the primary goal in a timing distribution system, a voltage source or low-ohmic source will perform just as well. (Due to the fact that optimum power-transfer will occur when the load and the source impedance ar the same). Reasons why you would like to have a resistor in your source output: * current limiting, in case of a short (allthough, if you use an OpAmp as buffer it usually has a current limiter inside) * to damp out reflections caused by the mismatch of the load. A reflection caused by the load can be absorbed by the source if it is well matched to 50 Ohms. If not, the reflected wave, will bounced again at the source, and again at the load, and again, and again. (OK, it will stop due to cable-damping ;) ). Anyway, if your load is well matched to 50 Ohms, any resistor close to 50 Ohms will perform well. You could even consider using a variable resistor in order to regulate the signal level. Good luck with your project Brooke, best regards, Jeroen Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Brooke, Most of the Video buffer/driver type IC's should work with a suitably scaled output resistor. Even a fast (high -slew rate) OP-Amp will work. The output impedance should be low enough to get a good 50 ohm match with just a couple of 100R in parallel. The out put impedance should be in the data sheet for the device. A good technique is to set the output of your buffer amplifier to a higher voltage than the desired output and use a resistive divider (50R output impedance) to attenuate the signal to the level you need, just don't forget about the other 50R load! This is sometimes called a soft output as the voltage will rise if it's not correctly terminated. See the TAPR TADD1 http://www.tapr.org/~n8ur/TADD-1_Manual.pdf , Maxim Data sheet for the MAX477 http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX477.pdf and application note http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/1036 or National's LM6171 http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM6171.pdf for some ideas. With the MAX477 just using a 50R output resistor will give good results, not that it's not essential to have an exact resistance, many commercial designs use 52R (preferred value) output resistors with out problems, it's within 5%. HTH, Robert G8RPI. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke Sent: 07 April 2006 05:14 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] IC for 1 PPS Output Hi: I've got the TVB 1 PPS PIC circuit working and would like to add an output IC to drive 50 a couple of Ohm cables. Need two outputs, the normal 1 PPS and also the 10 kHz output since I think it would work with the SRS app note for making 1,000 TI measurements in one second to better see small offsets. I seem to remember that there may be an internal resistance already in some chips so putting a 47 or 50 Ohm resistor in series may result in an impedance above 50 Ohms. Any thoughts? Thanks, Brooke Clarke -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an HP K34-59991A Linear Phase Comparator
Dear All, I checked the patentsdatabase, there is another patent form Michael Fischer (US6,351,153) which claims to be less sensitive to temperature and supply voltage fluctuations. Interesting to read. Furthermore, when designing electronics, I always keep in mind the KISS-principle (Keep It Stupidly Simple). With carefull simple design, al lot of effects can be neglected or compensated for. More (expensive) electronics, doesn't mean a much better design. Usuallly more electronics invite noise and temperature influence instead of cancelling... Jeroen PE1RGE Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi, I've looked at building one of these and it's not quite so trivial to duplicate. The speed of the logic is important, the original design used ECL. High speed CMOS may be OK but how do you verify performance? The original also used an unusual input circuit designed around a discontinued line receiver IC. This is critical to performance, any variation in threshold will appear as a phase error. I'm continuing to prototype a new design and will let you know how I get on. I've got a manual on PDF if you need it. Robert G8RPI. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Karlquist Sent: 06 December 2005 19:35 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an HP K34-59991A Linear Phase Comparator It is trivial to build your own out of a couple of flip flops. You can read Michael Fischer's patent on it (circa 1980). Rick Karlquist N6RK NE8S wrote: Gentlemen: Happy Holidays to All Time, Frequency, and Phase Domainers. I am looking for an HP Linear Phase Comparator, Model K34-59991A. Does anyone have one to sell??? Thanks in advance for checking and passing the word for me. Gar Ko NE8S Email Addresses: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily Genetix Ltd (Genetix) or any company associated with it. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify Genetix by telephone on +44 (0)1425 624600. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. This mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses prior to leaving the Genetix network. Genetix will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages as a result of any virus being passed on, or arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party. ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an HP K34-59991A Linear Phase Comparator
Hi Robert, It is an interesting problem. I have been looking in it for some time as well. Planned to build such a phase-comparator myself no real schematics yet, due to a lack of time :-( (or maybe too many interests) To get a nice 50% duty cycle, you need more than just a D-Flip-Flop... Probably you already figured that out. You need to synchronise the 50% pulses with either the positive or the negative edge of your incoming original signal. This would mean, that your frequency is at least divided by a factor 4. For the analog part: You could consider using a limiter-like circuit, like the ones which are used in FM-detector IC's. The input signal will be amplified till it clips. The only interesting parameter is the zero-crossing, which could be detected by a comparator. (Compare the signal to ground). However, a slightly distorted (or noisy) sine wave will produce an error as well... A distortion/noise in your inputsignal will always distort your measurement. This makes me wonder if it really pays off to use very fast/high-grade components. Did you do any calculations to estimate the phase error (not the constant one), which will be introduced by certain components? A general question: what kind of signals do you want to compare/measure the phase? 10 MHz, 10 kHz, 1 pps, . Square, sine-wave??? Best regards, Jeroen PE1RGE Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Jeroen, Looks like a nice improvement. It deals mainly with the errors in the phase detector itself. The circuit still needs a 50% duty cycle squarewave logic level input. The problem of converting from a lower level sinewave input remanains. Using a differential line receiver IC with a transformer coupled input followed by a divide by 2 looks like the best bet. The Low Voltage Differential Signalling (LVDS) systems that are coming into use have spawned a range of high performance IC's. I've just got hold of some SN65LVDS048A quad receivers. Designed for 200MHz and with 50ps channel to channel skew on a 2.7ns propagation delay, these should perform well. I've just got to do some testing. Need more time. Robert G8RPI. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeroen Bastemeijer Sent: 07 December 2005 09:52 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an HP K34-59991A Linear Phase Comparator Dear All, I checked the patentsdatabase, there is another patent form Michael Fischer (US6,351,153) which claims to be less sensitive to temperature and supply voltage fluctuations. Interesting to read. Furthermore, when designing electronics, I always keep in mind the KISS-principle (Keep It Stupidly Simple). With carefull simple design, al lot of effects can be neglected or compensated for. More (expensive) electronics, doesn't mean a much better design. Usuallly more electronics invite noise and temperature influence instead of cancelling... Jeroen PE1RGE Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi, I've looked at building one of these and it's not quite so trivial to duplicate. The speed of the logic is important, the original design used ECL. High speed CMOS may be OK but how do you verify performance? The original also used an unusual input circuit designed around a discontinued line receiver IC. This is critical to performance, any variation in threshold will appear as a phase error. I'm continuing to prototype a new design and will let you know how I get on. I've got a manual on PDF if you need it. Robert G8RPI. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Karlquist Sent: 06 December 2005 19:35 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an HP K34-59991A Linear Phase Comparator It is trivial to build your own out of a couple of flip flops. You can read Michael Fischer's patent on it (circa 1980). Rick Karlquist N6RK NE8S wrote: Gentlemen: Happy Holidays to All Time, Frequency, and Phase Domainers. I am looking for an HP Linear Phase Comparator, Model K34-59991A. Does anyone have one to sell??? Thanks in advance for checking and passing the word for me. Gar Ko NE8S Email Addresses: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily Genetix Ltd (Genetix) or any company associated with it. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended
Re: [time-nuts] Re:manual FRS-C; XSRM
Dear mr von Bonhorst, I'm very interested in the Rohde Schwarz XSRM manuals. Big E-mail attachments are no problem (I assume you send them as attachment). Thank you, Best regards, Jeroen Bastemeijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: New manual scans available ! These manuals are free of charge for all time-nuts. I did scans for the following manuals. EFRATOM Time Frequency Products, Inc. SUBMINIATURE RUBIDIUM OSCILLATOR MODEL FRS Description and operation manual including diagramms, partslist and board layout ROHDE SCHWARZ MÜNCHEN RUBIDIUM-FREQUENZSTANDARD XSRM operating and servicemanual German and English If you are interested send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] FEI5680A Rubidiums On Ebay
Dear All, I just looked up the AD9832. It has no internal multiplier. Maximum reference CLK-frequency is 25 MHz. Squeezing out 10 MHz.. the wave shape will not be nice, unless extensive filtering is used. I'm not sure if this DDS is used at the end of the chain or is a part of the frequency controlloop? If it is at the end of the chain, one could consider disconnnecting the program-pins and program a small PIC to program the DDS. Or use the reference clock and connect it to a more recent type of DDS (with internal multiplier), and create a nice 10 MHz sine-wave with the external DDS. I have seen these standards on Ebay as well some time ago I expected all these kind of problems, so I decided not to buy one. However, if the price would have been lower (and if I had more time), I would have bought one. My idea was to modify the unit. Keep some of the original electronics, but redesign the synthesizer and interface part Good luck, hope you will find some way to make the oscillator usefull! Best regards 73's Jeroen - PE1RGE Rex wrote: On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:21:51 +0200, Jeroen Bastemeijer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By the way, did someone look into the type-number of the DDS? Or is it a custom build discrete DDS? The FEI5680A uses an AD9832. There is also a Xilinx in it and a couple other big ICs. The output on the one I bought is 1 PPS and 10 MHz. The FEI web page specs a frequency of 1 to 20 MHz and programmable to 1 x 10^-13. FEI has not been friendly in giving any more info. The eBay seller claimed that the unit needed 15V and that info on the FEI web pages described the connector. After returning one, I did a some reverse engineering and figured out that this unit needed 15V *and 5V* to run. I think I have figured out the pins on the D connector, and it does not exactly match the info on the FEI site. Seller claims other satisfied buyers, but I can't imagine how they figured out how to use it unless they have access to some Motorola documents. (It seems it was use in Motorola equipment.) There is a MAX3232 serial chip in it that connects to the D connector. The seller claimed originally that they programmed like the 5650A, but this is not true. Nothing I ever sent to it on the serial lines ever elicited any response or reaction from the unit. Mine is not exactly on frequency (10 MHz) so it would be nice to have a way to adjust it. Here is part of a message I posted after my crusade to figure this thing out in January... --- To get to the point... by digging at circuits, I eventually figured out they needed +15 V but also +5 V on a different pin. With the two voltages, mine now came up giving 1 PPS and also 10 MHz on a different pin. I have worked out that RS232 Tx and Rx signals (from a MAX3232) come out to two pins on the external DB9 connector. I had expected it would program like the 5650 as described here: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/ Thus far, I haven't seen any reply to anything I send to the unit on the RS232 pins. So, either these units are not programmable or I just don't know how to talk to them. I have not found any documentation on how to program the 5680A. Does anyone have access to any more information. Did Don Latham work out his published information about the 5650 by logic and guess work or did he have access to something more? I wanted to try all other sources of information before contacting FEI as I have heard they are not that friendly unless money is involved. If it helps, this FE 5680A rubidium was used on a Motorola SGLA4000B High Stability Oscillator (HSO) that was (I think) used in cell sights. -Rex ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
Re: [time-nuts] FEI5680A Rubidiums On Ebay
Dear Time-nuts, The input frequency of a DDS doesn't really tell you the maximun frequency. What's inmoprtant is the inside of the DDS (IC). A lot of DDS-ICs nowadays have an internal reference multiplier. So the internal frequency could be 20 times 8 (for example), so the internal DDS clock is 160 MHz. Quoting Nyquist: pure theoretically 80 MHz would be the limit and 10 MHz would be possible. However, the internal multiplier will probably add a lot of noise Therefore, some manufacturers of DDS-IC's e.g. Analog Devices, give you the option to disable this multiplier. By the way, did someone look into the type-number of the DDS? Or is it a custom build discrete DDS? Best regards, Jeroen Mike Feher wrote: Brian - I am sure you really know this, but with a 20 MHz clock the maximum output of the DDS is probably no more than approximately 9 MHz. You just quoted the Nyquist limit, but in reality you do have to put a filter on the output to eliminate the spurious (aliasing) coming down from 20 MHz, the clock. Depending on the filter used you may even be able to get to 9 MHz or a little higher as that would still leave you 2 MHz for the filter's transition band, so the spurious at 11 MHz in that case would be sufficiently attenuated. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, N4FS 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Kirby Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:43 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] FEI5680A Rubidiums On Ebay In the past we had a bit of discussion on the FEI5680A rubidiums that are for sell on E-Bay. The units advertised by a certain seller were not the stock/standard units. The units the seller had were made for the cellular telephone industry and the pin outs were different from the literature that the seller pointed a link to, at the manufacturer's web site (These units were reversed engineered by another time-nut and myself to find the differences). The seller also pointed out the units were programmable, and pointed to a link for a different rubidium at Tom's site at http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/fei5650a/ as a programming example. The units we purchased were advertised by the seller to be programmable to 20 MHz. A couple of us time nuts have bought the units, and we found they did not program, as advertised by the seller. I specifically asked the seller about programming information and he claimed to have a friend that knew how. I asked for an introduction to the friend, and I never heard from the seller again. The DDS inside of this rubidium uses a 20 MHz clock, so in general, the DDS is limited to a maximum output frequency of 10 MHz. Also the DDS was not available to the user as a optional frequency output - the DDS was part of the internal servo multiplier loop. Tonight I was browsing E-bay, and I noticed a question from a user on these rubidiums and the response of the seller, which I have cut and pasted: Questions from other members : RUBIDIUM FE-5680A frequency standard 1pps output Item number: 7545757082 Question Answer Answered On Q: Hello, Before bidding for this product I want to know if you have capability in order to obtain the right 10 MHz frequency needed from such standard. In fact all the topics I have read on Internet for this product are saiding that each people who has buyed on Ebay this product has never obtained any frequency output. Best regards. Sep-12-05 A: Hello, Item was develop for 1 pps output. You can get some 8.xxx Mhz from inside from the frequency multiplication stage, so whatever they said at the internet is ignorance of not knowing how to use it. If you programm the unit you can get 10 MHz nominal, I cannot supply any infor on the programming, however its available elsewhere. If you do not know how to programm the unit, just buy an Symm Lpro with 10 Mhz nominal. What are your needs? Size? etc. thanks. End of the paste - If the information is available elsewhere - we would sure like to know where it is ! By the way, this has been going on for over a year now (and its Sept 2005) ! Brian - N4FMN ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts -- Ing. Jeroen Bastemeijer Delft University of Technology Department of Electrical Engineering Electronic Instrumentation Laboratory Mekelweg 4, Room 13.090 2628 CD Delft The Netherlands Phone: +31.15.27.86542 Fax: +31.15.27.85755 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
