Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic?

[d . seiter]

Skylights and such are easy to keep leakproof, but you do have to check the 
plastic parts every once in a while.  Years ago I installed one of those 
"sun-tunnel" type tubes for a small, windowless bath, and it worked great; 
however, about the time I replaced the roof, I discovered that the cover dome 
had cracks in it.  Not just hazing, but cracks you could easily force a finger 
into!  They had developed within the prior year, and when the rains began, they 
would have let the water in- not too much, but enough.  

  

When replacing the dome, I found that it had been acrylic, but a polycarbonate 
version was available for "harsh climates".  I ordered the latter, even though 
the helpfull "expert" said it was unnecessary. Yeah, right. 



-Dave 



- Original Message -




From: "Scott McGrath"  
To: j...@quikus.com 
Cc: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 10:52:26 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic? 

They are no harder than a chimney to keep leakproof unless they are flush in 
which case everything said is true.   You need structure and a leakproof 
membrane and proper flashing to redirect water 

Sent from my iPhone 

On Nov 26, 2012, at 10:38 AM, "J. Forster"  wrote: 

> I considered that about 5 years ago when I reroofed. The roofing 
> contracctor told me that anything like a skylight is very, very hard to 
> make and keep leakproof. You really, really don't want a leaky roof. 
> 
> -John 
> 
> = 
> 
>> Or install a frosted dome type skylight as a radome lights the attic and 
>> allows for better reception 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 
>> 
>> On Nov 25, 2012, at 10:15 PM, "J. Forster"  wrote: 
>> 
>>> There are ways to do it w/o drilling holes. Most all houses have vent 
>>> stacks for the plumbing, typically 3 or 4 inch cast iron or thick 
>>> plastic. 
>>> 
>>> You can clamp a couple of feet of pipe onto one of those and run the 
>>> wire 
>>> to under an eve or through a gable end, adding a drip loop of course. 
>>> 
>>> But, if it were my house and I just wanted to discipline my local 
>>> standard, I'd try the attic first. Among other things, you can get to 
>>> the 
>>> antenna w/o climbing on the roof! 
>>> 
>>> New England is not sunny CA. 
>>> 
>>> -John 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Peter Gottlieb  
 wrote: 
 
> I'm beginning to set up in my new house and planning where all my 
> various 
> antennas are going to go.  Being a wood frame building, I was 
> wondering 
> if 
> it was sufficient to simply mount my Thunderbolt GPS antenna high in 
> the 
> attic. 
 
 
 It will work but it will be far from optimal.  All you need to do is 
 get a 
 big drill bit and  drill through the roof and put up an iron galvanized 
 pipe.  Put a pipe flange on the end and bolt the GPS antenna to that. 
 You 
 will need some metal flashing and roofing tar and then you will have a 
 first class setup.  You run the coax down the pipe.   The timing 
 antennas 
 are pointed on top so snow falls off 
 
 Chris Albertson 
 Redondo Beach, California 
 ___ 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> and follow the instructions there. 
> 
> 

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Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic?

[d . seiter]

Another possible option is running the cable through the same hole in the roof 
as the vent pipe. Frequently (for bath exhaust vents and such) there is a ~4-8" 
tin or aluminum shroud & "hat" around the vent pipe, and in many cases, a gap 
between the pipe and roofing material (the shroud opening having a mesh to keep 
out critters). I used the gap to run my old Z3801A cable out before I had my 
roof replaced. I never replaced it because I upgraded to better cable, and it 
was too rigid for the old path (it had to bend enough to create a drip loop to 
keep the water out). I never did get around to rerouting the cable, so it's at 
ceiling level in the office. The performance is a little worse than I used to 
get but not bad enough to be a problem. In my case, the vent and main stack are 
about 2' apart, so mounting the antenna pipe (plastic) to the main stack worked 
nicely. 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "J. Forster"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:15:05 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic? 

There are ways to do it w/o drilling holes. Most all houses have vent 
stacks for the plumbing, typically 3 or 4 inch cast iron or thick plastic. 

You can clamp a couple of feet of pipe onto one of those and run the wire 
to under an eve or through a gable end, adding a drip loop of course. 

But, if it were my house and I just wanted to discipline my local 
standard, I'd try the attic first. Among other things, you can get to the 
antenna w/o climbing on the roof! 

New England is not sunny CA. 

-John 

 



> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Peter Gottlieb  wrote: 
> 
>> I'm beginning to set up in my new house and planning where all my 
>> various 
>> antennas are going to go. Being a wood frame building, I was wondering 
>> if 
>> it was sufficient to simply mount my Thunderbolt GPS antenna high in the 
>> attic. 
> 
> 
> It will work but it will be far from optimal. All you need to do is get a 
> big drill bit and drill through the roof and put up an iron galvanized 
> pipe. Put a pipe flange on the end and bolt the GPS antenna to that. 
> You 
> will need some metal flashing and roofing tar and then you will have a 
> first class setup. You run the coax down the pipe. The timing antennas 
> are pointed on top so snow falls off 
> 
> Chris Albertson 
> Redondo Beach, California 
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> To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
> and follow the instructions there. 
> 
> 



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Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?

[d . seiter]

Well, that's what I love about the SF bay area- lots of old neighborhoods that 
didn't have all these silly restrictions in place when they were built.  There 
are the "usual" CC&Rs, like I can raise chickens, but not cows, but it doesn't 
mandate what three colors you can paint your house, or the window coverings you 
can have or how long you can park your car in the driveway.  Yes, things can 
change, but at least it's not in place in the beginning- and we can monitor 
implementation of any changes, at least in Palo Alto and Sunnyvale (where we 
have neighborhood groups that monitor such things, specifically because we like 
the status quo). 



I'm sure some or all of the newer developments do have silly restrictions, I 
just would never buy into one. 



-Dave 



- Original Message -


From: "J. Forster"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:47:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 

Earth to Dave: 

Sometimes laws and regulations change years after you buy a piece of 
property or do something perfectly legal. 

Nobody is safe whenever (Congress, Agency, State Legislature, Town 
Council, governing body, or whatever) is in session. 

YMMV, 

-John 

=== 



> 
> 
> These are amoung other reasons why I will never buy a house in a 
> development or with a HOA. 
> 
> 
> 
> -Dave 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> 
> 
> From: "Bob Camp"  
> To: j...@quikus.com, "Discussion of precise time and frequency 
> measurement"  
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:36:23 AM 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 
> 
> Hi 
> 
>  and indeed many of the "likely hiding places" are also on the list of 
> things you are not supposed to do. 
> 
> Bob 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On 
> Behalf Of J. Forster 
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:20 PM 
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 
> 
> Vent pipes are not usually 20-30 feet tall. 
> 
> -John 
> 
> = 
> 
> 
>> Which for all intents and purposes means "nothing that looks like an 
>> antenna 
>> to John Q. Public". What if your GPS antenna looked like a vent pipe? or 
>> a 
>> Bird House? It may be difficult to hide a decent HF antenna, But, a 1.5 
>> GHz 
>> antenna can be virtually invisible. 
>> Dale NV8U 
>> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: Bob Camp 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:02 PM 
>> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 
>> 
>> Hi 
>> 
>> Right here in PA for one. You essentially can not buy a new house 
>> without 
>> there being various conditions written into the title. One universal one 
>> is 
>> "no antennas". The only exception is for one 19" sat dish for TV, since 
>> that's a federal mandate. 
>> 
>> Bob 
>> 
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On 
>> Behalf Of brent evers 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:57 AM 
>> To: j...@quikus.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
>> measurement 
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 
>> 
>> Zoning, Legal? 
>> 
>> Where? 
>> 
>> Brent 
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:41 AM, J. Forster  wrote: 
>>> Because: 
>>> 
>>> LORAN-C is gone. 
>>> 
>>> Not all can use GPS because of siting, horizon, zoning, legal, and 
>>> other 
>>> issues. Not everyone can erect antenna towers. 
>>> 
>>> There is nothing else, except perhaps WWV or CHU on HF. 
>>> 
>>> -John 
>>> 
>>> == 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 I cannot think of a time-nuts WWVB reference requirement 
 that cannot be better satisfied with a GPSDO. 
 
 Will  NIST publish a public domain reference circuit? 
 That would allay patent concerns. 
 
 -- 
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R     c...@omen.com   www.omen.com 
 Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications 
    Omen Technology Inc      "The High Reliability Software" 
 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430 
 
 
 ___ 
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
 To unsubscribe, go to 
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
 and follow the instructions there. 
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___ 
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
>>> and follow the instructions there. 
>> 
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>> and follow the instructions there. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___ 
>> ti

Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?

[d . seiter]

These are amoung other reasons why I will never buy a house in a development or 
with a HOA. 



-Dave 



- Original Message -


From: "Bob Camp"  
To: j...@quikus.com, "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
 
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:36:23 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 

Hi 

 and indeed many of the "likely hiding places" are also on the list of 
things you are not supposed to do. 

Bob 

-Original Message- 
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On 
Behalf Of J. Forster 
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:20 PM 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 

Vent pipes are not usually 20-30 feet tall. 

-John 

= 


> Which for all intents and purposes means "nothing that looks like an 
> antenna 
> to John Q. Public". What if your GPS antenna looked like a vent pipe? or a 
> Bird House? It may be difficult to hide a decent HF antenna, But, a 1.5 
> GHz 
> antenna can be virtually invisible. 
> Dale NV8U 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Bob Camp 
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:02 PM 
> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 
> 
> Hi 
> 
> Right here in PA for one. You essentially can not buy a new house without 
> there being various conditions written into the title. One universal one 
> is 
> "no antennas". The only exception is for one 19" sat dish for TV, since 
> that's a federal mandate. 
> 
> Bob 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On 
> Behalf Of brent evers 
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:57 AM 
> To: j...@quikus.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? 
> 
> Zoning, Legal? 
> 
> Where? 
> 
> Brent 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:41 AM, J. Forster  wrote: 
>> Because: 
>> 
>> LORAN-C is gone. 
>> 
>> Not all can use GPS because of siting, horizon, zoning, legal, and other 
>> issues. Not everyone can erect antenna towers. 
>> 
>> There is nothing else, except perhaps WWV or CHU on HF. 
>> 
>> -John 
>> 
>> == 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I cannot think of a time-nuts WWVB reference requirement 
>>> that cannot be better satisfied with a GPSDO. 
>>> 
>>> Will  NIST publish a public domain reference circuit? 
>>> That would allay patent concerns. 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R     c...@omen.com   www.omen.com 
>>> Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications 
>>>    Omen Technology Inc      "The High Reliability Software" 
>>> 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___ 
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
>>> and follow the instructions there. 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___ 
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> 
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> 
> 



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Re: [time-nuts] WOT: Identify this movie

[d . seiter]

It sounds familiar, but I can't put a finger on it. For some reason, it reminds 
me of the Lovecraft story about the circular prison complex that the prisoners 
had to rotate one cell at a time via a big rope once a day. .. 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "Bill Hawkins"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 11:05:13 PM 
Subject: [time-nuts] WOT: Identify this movie 

It's a dark and quiet night, and list traffic is way down, so please 
forgive 
me for this way off topic request. I'm writing a book about automation 
and 
have a chapter on the future thereof. 

I have a dim memory of a TV show or movie in black and white that has 
the 
teeming billions of earth living in high-rise buildings, each in a self- 
contained room. Occasionally, they "work" by pedaling a machine that 
generates electricity for the tower. Their leader exorts them to work 
harder through a wall-sized TV set. 

Does anybody recognize that scenario? At least one writer has suggested 
"welfare dormitories" for the 50% of workers made redundant by 
automation 
around 2050. Would like to get it into the book if I had a reference. 

Note the use of a time in the future to stay near topic. 

Bill Hawkins 


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Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprisesoneBay

[d . seiter]

Which means, of course, that it's almost impossible to make a profit on heavy, 
low cost items.  



I used to go out of my way to make sure my buyers were paying the actual 
shipping costs, but after all ebay's changes, it's easier to estimate worse 
case shipping coast to coast, or do free shipping with plenty of shipping built 
into the fixed price. 



-Dave 


- 

Ebay fees don't reflect shipping cost, so the seller makes more money by 
inflating the shipping price, even if it reduces the final sales price. 
 


That used to be the case but ebay now charges on the final price including 
shipping. 


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Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay

[d . seiter]

But it's wrapped with bubble-wrap, surely that's enough, right? ;-) 


I once received a RM502 scope that was similarly packed; it was a testament to 
Tek's robustness that it wasn't damaged and actually worked "out of the box". 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "David Kirkby"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 3:16:55 PM 
Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on 
eBay 

I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be 
useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. 

orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would 
advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how 
he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I 
won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. 

http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequate-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg
 

Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. 

He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship 
it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the 
USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs 
duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the 
shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA -> UK shipping 
charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK -> USA shipping costs. 
I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not 
damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. 

Dave. 

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting

[d . seiter]

When I had my Tbolt running full time, I just had it sitting in the bottom 
corner of a bookcase that was hard to get to (Tek 7104 on a cart packed with 
other gear too was in the way, along with piles of other things). No drafts, so 
the temp stayed pretty constant. It was taken out of full service when I got a 
Z3801. 


I want to build a home for it and my two Rb units in a temp controlled box, but 
haven't gotten there yet. 



-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "Gary Fiber"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:12:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting 

I have mine in a nice case along with the switcher supply. Am debating on the 
need of including a small fan. I made a shelf from 2 sided PCB material and 
mounted the Thunderbolt onto that shelf. 
The switching power supply sits below the Thunderbolt mounted to the case 
bottom. 

Gary Fiber K8IZ 


Sent from my iPad 

On Jul 11, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Peter Gottlieb  wrote: 

> I would like to put my Thunderbolt into a chassis with power supply and would 
> like to have the most favorable thermal environment since the unit is 
> somewhat temperature dependent. 
> 
> I was thinking of mounting the unit in insulating material, but am worried it 
> will get too hot to the point the temp control loop won't work properly. Has 
> anyone experimented with this and found the best solution? I would like to 
> remove the strong dependence on room temperature that I have currently. 
> 
> 
> Peter 
> 
> On Jul 11, 2012, at 11:18 AM, Gary Fiber  wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> I purchased a Trimble Thunderbolt. Is there a web page or does someone have 
>> a set of written steps to set up the Thunderbolt? There are quite a few 
>> adjustments available for it and it makes sense to me not to reinvent the 
>> wheel. I have googled and got some results using Tboltmon. Have tried Lady 
>> Heather, but have to figure out just how to utilize that program. 
>> Have the Thunderbolt, a Mean Well 60 watt supply, have I hope is a decent 
>> antenna arriving Friday. Am intending on using the 19 MHz output for a time 
>> base for my HP-8935A and HP-8656B. 
>> 
>> Gary Fiber K8IZ 
>> Sent from my iPad 
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Re: [time-nuts] Humor break

[d . seiter]

Obviously, it's not a REACH to say that SIN was probably involved here... :-) 



Ok, I'll go away now... 



-Dave 



- Original Message -


From: "Jean-Louis Oneto"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:44:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Humor break 

It seems that ROHS is involved: (tin) whiskers ? 

On 11/06/2012 21:14, Bill Hawkins wrote: 
> Celia Rivenbark of Wilmington, NC, wrote a piece about an accident on 
> a Florida highway, headline "Driving and shaving just don't mix." 
> 
> In it she remarked that the woman who caused the accident "appears to 
> have a face that would stop a clock and raise hell with small watches." 
> 
> What I love about life is that you learn something new every day. 
> Who would have dreamed that watches could be affected too. 
> 
> Bill Hawkins 
> 
> 
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> 

-- 
Jean-Louis Oneto 
OCA GeoAzur - Avenue Nicolas Copernic 
06130 Grasse - France 
e-mail: jean-louis.on...@obs-azur.fr 


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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

[d . seiter]

It's good to know you can still wander in. I used to go there to browse on 
rainy days when I had nothing to do (pre-internet, of course). 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "Rick Karlquist"  
To: li...@lazygranch.com, "Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement"  
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 4:03:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant 

li...@lazygranch.com wrote: 
> Terman Library (Stanford) used let any schmuck use the computers in the 
> library. You could email the articles to yourself. Now it requires a 
> password. 

BTW, the library in Terman hall is the "Engineering Library" 
not the "Terman Library". A common misconception. 

Rick 


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Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

[d . seiter]

A law firm with a technology department? 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "Michael Blazer"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 7:44:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again 

It's not a technology company if it has more lawyers than engineers. 

Mike 

On 6/4/2012 7:33 PM, Eric Williams wrote: 
> Typical of technology companies that have more lawyers on staff than 
> engineers. 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Tom Knox wrote: 
> 
>> Lightsquared is like a cockroach every time you think it is dead it shows 
>> up again. 
>> 
>> Thomas Knox 
>> 
>> 1-303-554-0307 
>> 
>>> Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 19:25:22 -0400 
>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com 
>>> From: charles_steinm...@lavabit.com 
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again 
>>> 
>>> From today's communications news (fair use): 
>>> 
>>> LightSquared stressed its intention to deploy a nationwide 4G 
>>> wireless broadband network, during a meeting with Angela Giancarlo, 
>>> chief of staff to FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell. The commission 
>>> has some legal and policy responses it can take "to address the 
>>> inability of a limited number of GPS receivers to operate properly in 
>>> spectrum that has not been allocated for GPS use," the company said 
>>> in an ex parte filing. It said the actions proposed in the 
>>> commission's Feb. 15 public notice revoking its ancillary terrestrial 
>>> component "are disproportionate and inappropriate, especially in 
>>> light of the current administrative record." 
>>> 
>>> < 
>> http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view;jsessionid=PbLJPNCL1F1v170xHrQhXLJlClpRjS2DfgWX7c4CqvvhwQlgG2nn!-1221852939!NONE?id=7021921317
>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] In the atomclock repairshop...

[d . seiter]

Sometimes half the fun of a new album was the great artwork and goodies 
contained inside. Another bygone art form. I never did get excited by CDs and 
tiny artwork. 


I thoroughly enjoyed the article, along with the google translation. 


-Dave 
- Original Message -
From: "Chuck Harris"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:55:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] In the atomclock repairshop... 

That we even know what an LP sleeve is gives a pretty 
good clue about what a bunch of old goats we are ;-) 

-Chuck 

Magnus Danielson wrote: 
> On 04/26/2012 12:37 AM, Tom Harris wrote: 
>> The portrait of your good self on page 4 "A night seance in rubidium lamp 
>> light" is superb, I would guess that this is inspired by a LP sleeve. 
> 
> Yes, indeed it is. Now, which LP sleeve is it? We have the age for it here. 

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Re: [time-nuts] PICTIC II ready-made?

[d . seiter]

That's a new one to me!  I expected them to be in Idaho, though. 



-Dave 



- Original Message -


From: "Daniel Mendes"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 3:17:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PICTIC II ready-made? 


About replacing the 74ACT175... there´s a company called "Potato Semi" 
(well.. they make "chips", right?) whose sole business is to make damn 
fast 74 logic. Their chips can be bought at ebay in small quantities. 
Look at this 600MHz D flip flop: 

http://www.potatosemi.com/potatosemiweb/datasheet/PO74G74A.pdf 

Daniel 

Em 25/04/2012 16:15, Bruce Griffiths escreveu: 
> Chris Albertson wrote: 
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Don Latham  wrote: 
>> 
>>> I forgot to add that a simple redrafting of the II as an Arduino shield 
>>> with appropriate chips and chip passives would accomplish the desired 
>>> end without losing the very careful engineering and testing that has 
>>> already been done? 
>>> Would be nice to have a way to change caps without soldering as well, 
>>> maybe just some .1" jumpers? 
>> 
>> Yes, MOST of the design could be re-used.  As an Arduino shield there 
>> is no 
>> need for a PIC or RS-232 interface becusethe Arduino does that function. 
>>   You'd need to replace the 74ACT175 part but that is not hard. 
>> 
>> About changing the cap values without soldering.  I guess you could push 
>> the leads into a 0.1 inch header strip or install several and use a DIP 
>> switch to select which are "in".   But I don't know if the extra 
>> inductance 
>> al that wiring adds is enough to worry about. 
>> 
> The time to digital converter (TDC) section is merely an interpolator 
> that measures the delay of a synchroniser. 
> The TDC range should be about 2 clock periods to accommodate the range 
> of synchroniser delays and to facilitate calibration. 
> Unless one is changing the synchroniser clock period there is no need 
> to vary the TDC gain. 
> The SR620 uses a similar interpolator and has only a single 
> interpolator range. 
> The range is extended by counting the number of synchroniser clock 
> periods between synchroniser output transitions of interest. 
> When measuring the time interval between 2 signals a pair of 
> synchronisers and interpolators are used. 
> 
> Interpolator nonlinearity can be measured by using a statistical fill 
> the buckets technique which uses nothing but a pair of noisy 
> asynchronous oscillators with high reverse isolation to avoid 
> injection locking. 
> 
> If a suitable ADC is used the interpolator can be simplified 
> considerably whilst improving its performance. 
> Minor nonlinearities are of little significance, as long as they are 
> repeatable and relatively stable they can be easily corrected in 
> software. 
> 
> Bruce 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale

[d . seiter]

While not a true modification, my Z3801A has an external time/date display. 

-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "Magnus Danielson"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:10:10 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A Sale 

On 03/31/2012 08:11 AM, Hal Murray wrote: 
> 
>> There really is nothing much to this "modification." The Z3801A is already 
>> designed to easily work on either interface, but most units are configured 
>> for RS-422 as the default. It takes perhaps a half-hour to remove a few 
>> zero-ohm SMD resistors and solder in a header strip. The simple procedure 
>> is described and illustrated here: 
> 
> You don't need the header strip. There are empty slots waiting for some of 
> the 0-ohm jumpers you have to remove. 
> 
> I think they are the three to the right of the circle in figure-13 of the 
> above URL. You can work out which is which by following the traces or using 
> an ohm-meter. 
> 
> Here is another URL in case you want a second opinion: 
> http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/Z3801AReceiverModifications 
> 
> 

The modification is trivial and recommended. 

Has anyone figured out the other modifications possible? There's a 
second FPGA to drop in, I just haven't bothered to try that. There seems 
to be a secondary serial port available. 

Cheers, 
Magnus 

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Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: FE-5680A Contact FEI

[d . seiter]

Or worse, they will start requiring their scrappers to use a drill press or 
punch to render the physics package unusable. I've seen this done locally by 
hard drive manufacturers- hundreds of pounds of working HDs destroyed on 
purpose on a regular basis. If they only scrap "killed" units, no one will want 
to reverse engineer them. 


-Dave 


- Original Message -
From: "Mike McCauley"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:02:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fwd: FE-5680A Contact FEI 

Hmmm, 

Seems they dont realise that their lack of cooperation will lead, not to 
protecting their product, but rather to the massive, public reverse 
engineering of it? 


On Friday, February 17, 2012 05:43:49 PM Gerald Molenkamp wrote: 
> I have written to them on several occasions about 56 
> 
> Sent via Gerald's iPad 
> 
> Begin forwarded message: 
> > From: Peter Gottlieb  
> > Date: 16 February 2012 10:58:10 AEDT 
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
> >  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Contact FEI 
> > Reply-To: n...@verizon.net, Discussion of precise time and frequency 
> > measurement  
> > 
> > I haven't personally tried but others have reported they were somewhat 
> > less than cooperative. 
> > 
> > Peter 
> > 
> > On 2/15/2012 6:23 PM, Bill Riches wrote: 
> >> Just curious, 
> >> 
> >> Has anyone on this list actually contacted FEI and enquired about a 
> >> schematic or other info about our 5680 units? They are still being 
> >> sold by them. 
> >> 
> >> 73, 
> >> 
> >> Bill Riches, WA2DVU 
> >> Cape May, NJ 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___ 
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> >> the instructions there. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - 
> >> No virus found in this message. 
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> >> Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2112/4811 - Release Date: 
> >> 02/15/12 
> > 
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-- 
Mike McCauley mi...@open.com.au 
Open System Consultants Pty. Ltd 
9 Bulbul Place Currumbin Waters QLD 4223 Australia http://www.open.com.au 
Phone +61 7 5598-7474 Fax +61 7 5598-7070 

Radiator: the most portable, flexible and configurable RADIUS server 
anywhere. SQL, proxy, DBM, files, LDAP, NIS+, password, NT, Emerald, 
Platypus, Freeside, TACACS+, PAM, external, Active Directory, EAP, TLS, 
TTLS, PEAP, TNC, WiMAX, RSA, Vasco, Yubikey, MOTP, HOTP, TOTP, 
DIAMETER etc. Full source on Unix, Windows, MacOSX, Solaris, VMS, NetWare etc. 


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Re: [time-nuts] FE5680 missing PPS soln

[d . seiter]

I was hoping that pulling the lock LED from my setup would clear up my PPS 
signal, but no luck. I'm now getting a 4.545Khz sawtooth with 10Mhz noise. I 
need to peek at the input to the 74AC240. 

-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "Attila Kinali"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 4:55:20 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE5680 missing PPS soln 

On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:50:52 - 
"Rob Kimberley"  wrote: 

> Mine was a green LED out of the junk box, but I did use 330R in series. 1k8 
> seems rather large. 

Then i'm not surprised that your FE-5680 refused to work :-) 

Just calculate: 5V supply, approx 2V LED voltage -> 3V over the resistor. 
3V/330R = 90mA. As i wrote already, the 74AC240 has it's absolute 
maximum rating at 50mA. For a general logic output, i wouldn't recomend 
to draw more than 10mA (as Bob Grant wrote, the lock signal doesn't 
seem to pass trough the 74AC240). Hence, i would say that 330R seems 
rather small :-) 

Keep in mind that you drove circuit at over current for quite a long 
time. The circuit is most likely damaged (if they dont have an over 
current limit, which i doubt). If for an unknown reason the lock signal 
fails in the future, it might be due to this. 

Attila Kinali 
-- 
The trouble with you, Shev, is you don't say anything until you've saved 
up a whole truckload of damned heavy brick arguments and then you dump 
them all out and never look at the bleeding body mangled beneath the heap 
-- Tirin, The Dispossessed, U. Le Guin 

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Re: [time-nuts] Intro & Q: Racal-Dana 1991 or 1992 Counter ?

[d . seiter]

You mean you can't take it with you?!  It will (hopefully) be a long time 
before I get to that point, because it sounds boring already. 



-Dave 



- Original Message -


From: "Bill Hawkins"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 1:40:06 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Intro  &  Q: Racal-Dana 1991 or 1992 Counter ? 

IMHO, the RACAL 1992 is an excellent frequency and phase tool, with 
its 9 digit display. The Phase AB feature allows fine comparison of 
two 10 MHz inputs. Don't know the 91. 

The cure for time-nuttery is to get old, and realize that your 
collection of equipment will prevent you from being able to move 
to assisted living. 

Bill Hawkins 


-Original Message- 
From: cfo 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 2:58 PM 

Hello Nuts 

I'm a Danish radio ham , and have recently picked up electronics again. 
I'm programming AVR & ARM controllers , and doing some basic electronics 
stuff. I am rusty in analog electronics , and even have to lookup how to 
calculate a base resistor on a bjt. 

--%<--- snip 

And now back to the Racal-Dana 1991 or 1992 Counter question. 
I might need a TIC , and the HP5070 + shipping is to much. 
So i was wondering about one of the above mentioned Racal's. 

I have a nice offer on a 1991 , but can get a 1992 also ? 
Witch one would you recommend for general "Nut usage". 

73 de OZ1FTG 
CFO 

Ps: I suppose the above sounds familiar. 
    Has anyone found a cure the yet 



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Re: [time-nuts] Odd pulses on 1PPS output- 5680A

[d . seiter]

Finally got a chance to play with my 5680A, and was happy to see that it locks 
in about 45 seconds from cold. The messy 10Mhz output is about 80mVpp, but the 
weird thing is the output on pin 6 (1PPS). The output is a 20 microsecond, 
1.8Vpp, square wave that is clean on top, but rings like crazy on the bottom. 
When zoomed in on, the 10Mhz signal can be seen as noise on this output. My PS 
output is clean and the 5v is being provided by an inline 7805 (with caps). The 
onboard switcher section is not populated, so I'm at a loss as to where the 
signal is coming from. 


-Dave 
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Re: [time-nuts] New unit of time measurement

[d . seiter]

I like the ped-countdown displays here (San Jose, US) because I can better 
judge if I'll need to stop or not when approaching an intersection. I've 
noticed the drivers getting worse and worse about following basic laws like 
stopping at red lights. Rush hour only makes things worse- at the freeway on 
ramp intersection near where I work, an average of 5 cars go through the 
intersection after the light turns green for the other direction. To be fair, 
I've done the same when I am carrying something delicate and mis-judged the 
light, but these people just want to get home faster- I've often wished we 
could shoot offending cars with indelible paint balls... and the CHP could 
write tickets when you had enough hits on your car... Worst offenders? BMW and 
Audi drivers... 


I can dream... 
-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:31:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] New unit of time measurement 

In message <2867F1FA0E254465AF8CA85C85ED0C79@narvik>, "David J Taylor" writes: 

>> In China I've seen down-counting LED displays for the red sign. But this 
>> is just to simple for Europe. Badly. 
> 
>I've certainly seen countdown display for pedestrians in several European 
>cities. 

They are not used for cars here in Denmark because a certain testosterone 
driven segment of drivers think they are in pole-position when they see 
a count-down. 

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe 
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. 

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A arrived

[d . seiter]

Mine is 0436 (still untested- too busy) 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "Peter Gottlieb"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:09:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A arrived 

Got another one today, date code 0435. 


On 1/10/2012 10:48 PM, Peter Bell wrote: 
> Hi, Joseph 
> 
> The unit number just seems to be a mechanical serial number - all you 
> can really say about it is that higher numbers are newer. The most 
> useful number is the 4 digit prefix on the serial number - this is an 
> EIA format date code (two digits of year, two digits of week) - all 
> the units I've seen have been from '03 or '04 - the newest one I have 
> is 0420 - so dating from early June 2004. There is also another date 
> / revision label on the main PCB (visible by removing the bottom 
> cover) - this seems to be the PCBA build date. 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Pete 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Joseph Gray wrote: 
>> With all the talk on the list about these things, and considering the 
>> price, I could no longer resist temptation and ordered two from 
>> nichegeek. 
>> 
>> First, I was amazed at the speed at which I received these units. The 
>> order was placed last Friday, the shipment went out late Saturday and 
>> I received them today (Tuesday). In my experience, it has always taken 
>> two weeks or more to receive anything from China. I couldn't believe I 
>> got these in just three days. 
>> 
>> BTW, I paid $38 each with the free shipping. An outstanding deal IMO. 
>> I also received the semi-useless freebies. 
>> 
>> My only quibble so far is that both units were packed in nothing more 
>> than a large envelope, with a thin layer of bubble wrap added. Nothing 
>> is dented or rattling around, so hopefully they are OK. I'm just about 
>> to wire up a cable and power them on, so I'll know soon. 
>> 
>> The units I got have numbers of UN 71xxx and UN 78xxx. I don't know 
>> exactly what this means, but according to the ebay sellers, they are 
>> claiming that 6 and 7 numbers indicate newer units. Can anyone 
>> decipher this number sequence? 
>> 
>> Joe Gray 
>> W5JG 
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Shipping question

[d . seiter]

I finally broke down and bought one too- mine took about 10 days to get to the 
west coast. 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: "paul swed"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 7:27:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Shipping question 

Yes the free shipping by post is about 4 to 5 weeks. 
Regards 
Paul 

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 10:24 AM, mike cook  wrote: 

> Mine was slow, but I expected it. 25/11-28/12. 
> 
> Le 30/12/2011 11:30, Rob Kimberley a écrit : 
> 
> I bought a couple of these on EBay recently. Would like to know from the 
>> group what the typical shipping times have been so far from China. 
>> 
>> Cheers 
>> 
>> Rob Kimberley 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __**_ 
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>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of shipments from China

[d . seiter]

I've never had to pay any duty for shipments from China, Japan, Europe, etc 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: li...@lazygranch.com 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 3:41:43 PM 
Subject: [time-nuts] Speaking of shipments from China 

I got a feebay shipment from China today. Duty? No problem, it was declared a 
gift. ;-) 

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Re: [time-nuts] eBay Giveaway Vectron OCXOs

[d . seiter]

Figures... 



-Dave 



- Original Message -


From: "Dan Rae"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 12:59:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] eBay Giveaway Vectron OCXOs 

On 12/23/2011 12:42 PM, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: 
> 
> Depending on how old these OCXOs are, I may have an original datasheet for 
> them.  Most of my collection is early to mid 90's. 
> 
> 
> 
Dave, obviously it would be great if you did have one, but from the data 
sheets, Vectron assigned an arbitrary part number suffix to the generic 
number once you ordered the options you want, in this case the -18 
suffix, and it can't easily be translated back... 

Dan 



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Re: [time-nuts] eBay Giveaway Vectron OCXOs

[d . seiter]

Depending on how old these OCXOs are, I may have an original datasheet for 
them.  Most of my collection is early to mid 90's. 



-Dave 



- Original Message -


From: "Javier Herrero"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 12:37:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] eBay Giveaway Vectron OCXOs 

El 23/12/2011 20:38, Hal Murray escribió: 
> 
>> Running it at 5V with a Ref out at 4.8V would seem too close. Maybe it's a 
>> 12V part? 
> 
> Has anybody traced out the board?  Is the power to the OCXO connected to one 
> of the power rails feeding the Rb? 
> 
> 
> 
The OCXO is supplied separately and does not seem to be part of the board :) 

Regards, 

Javier 


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Re: [time-nuts] Bad GPS location

[d . seiter]

I don't know why anyone would want to buy a house within a homeowner 
association. 



It's too bad you can't install an antenna at the top of a tree, but all that 
swaying around can't be good. 



-Dave 



- Original Message -


From: "Peter Gottlieb"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 4:49:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bad GPS location 

Cities with tall buildings can be even worse (canyon effect). 

Plenty of flags in CA...actually, I've seen more prominently displayed on my 
trips there than I have in KS, for example. 

I find condo and homeowner association rules to be FAR worse than zoning 
regulations. 




On 10/13/2011 12:53 AM, Perry Sandeen wrote: 
> Wrote:  There are places, like a lot thick with 100' pine trees, that 
> satellites are pretty much unusable. A tower is out of the question due to 
> zoning 
> 
> Perhaps it’s time for the old Flagpole antenna.  Unless of course one lives 
> in California where displaying the American flag might be considered 
> “provocative” to someone or something. 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Perrier 
> 
> 
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> 
> - 
> No virus found in this message. 
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1522/3948 - Release Date: 10/12/11 


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Re: [time-nuts] Am I the only Time Nut who doesn't wear a watch?

[d . seiter]

I fall into this category too.  I used to wear an Avocet altimeter watch all 
the time, but once the last of the three I had could no longer be fixed, I just 
kind of gave up.  I don't usually carry a cellphone either.  I keep thinking I 
should get a watch for those occations when I might actually need one, but I 
rarely see any I like. 



Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: At the Flea

[d . seiter]

As I recall, Gilbert also offered some sort of "Atomic energy lab set" in the 
early 50's; they'd probably have to call in the hazmat folks if one of those 
appeared at a flea market. 



Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Albertson"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:55:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: At the Flea 

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 5:48 AM,   wrote: 
> On CSPAN's Book TV yesterday the President of Dow Chemical stated that their 
> *starting* salary for newly graduated chemical engineers is now $120K. That 
> $10 chemistry set might have been a good investment. 

That kids father was either really smart or stupid.  We don't know. 
He could of been a chemist and read the content and made an informed 
decision.  For example, "no we are not heating Mercury in an open test 
tube, not in my house."  Or he could have been ignorant and had a fear 
of "chemicals" not knowing what scary sounding things like "sodium 
chloride" is.   If it was a 50's vintage set I'd not be surprised if 
there was something really dangerous in there.  After all this was the 
period when they sold hot chassis TV sets and cars with no seat belts 
just to save a buck or two. 
-- 
= 
Chris Albertson 
Redondo Beach, California 

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Re: [time-nuts] OT: End of an Era

[d . seiter]

Last time I drove by (Thursday) they were still there; maybe they were working 
on the one closest to Yahoo (or maybe I was just worn out and didn't notice). 
I'd love to have one moved to my back yard, but the neighbors would probably 
complain (and the power lines would be too close). 


Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: k6...@comcast.net 
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2010 1:00:59 PM 
Subject: [time-nuts] OT: End of an Era 

The last two steerable dishes at Onizuka AFB (The Blue Cube) in Silicon Valley 
are being disassembled. 

One of those local landmarks, highway 237 at Mathilda. 

Did anyone see them listed on eBay? 

cheers-- 

Bob Martin K6RTM 

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Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things

[d . seiter]

LOL-  They don't get lost, it's mine that vanish and turn up randomly. 



Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Feher"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 4:35:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things 

Well, how often do you loose your daughters socks? - 

Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 
89 Arnold Blvd. 
Howell, NJ, 07731 
732-886-5960 office 
908-901-9193 cell 


-Original Message- 
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of d.sei...@comcast.net 
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:10 PM 
To: j...@quik.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things 



Not ususally, anyway; my daughter has some with toes that are.  Maybe high-end 
socks? 



-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "J. Forster"  
To: "Steve Rooke"  
Cc: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 3:52:06 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things 

Socks, not gloves. AFAIK, socks are not handed. 

-John 

= 


> On 13/11/2010, J. Forster  wrote: 
>> The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. 
>> 
>> When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you 
>> no 
>> longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. 
> 
> But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law 
> applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are 
> lost. 
> 
> Steve 
> 
>> QED. 
>> 
>> -John 
>> 
>> = 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc.  The local 
>>> randomness is probably a quantum effect... 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dave 
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Steve Rooke"  
>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com 
>>> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM 
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things 
>>> 
>>> While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able 
>>> to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the 
>>> vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough 
>>> to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the 
>>> range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work 
>>> involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to 
>>> save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I 
>>> could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period 
>>> of serious extended "looking" around, blind panic started to set in. 
>>> What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of 
>>> the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to 
>>> the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the 
>>> workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup 
>>> of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had 
>>> fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the 
>>> bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my 
>>> "blinded" state of putting them down in the first place, I had 
>>> obviously chosen an poor "safe" place. 
>>> 
>>> After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps 
>>> something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is 
>>> something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and 
>>> removes items from there current place, setting them down in some 
>>> completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something 
>>> increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere 
>>> due to the increased probability of it being "borrowed" by the LW. 
>>> Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually 
>>> your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but 
>>> probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems 
>>> to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure 
>>> there is some law here. 
>>> 
>>> For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. 
>>> 
>>> Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via 
>>> PM. 
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your time, 
>>> Steve 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD 
>>> The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. 
>>> - Einstein 
>>> 
>>> ___ 
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>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
>>> and follow the instructions there. 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> https:

Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things

[d . seiter]

Not ususally, anyway; my daughter has some with toes that are.  Maybe high-end 
socks? 



-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "J. Forster"  
To: "Steve Rooke"  
Cc: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 3:52:06 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things 

Socks, not gloves. AFAIK, socks are not handed. 

-John 

= 


> On 13/11/2010, J. Forster  wrote: 
>> The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. 
>> 
>> When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you 
>> no 
>> longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. 
> 
> But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law 
> applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are 
> lost. 
> 
> Steve 
> 
>> QED. 
>> 
>> -John 
>> 
>> = 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc.  The local 
>>> randomness is probably a quantum effect... 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dave 
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Steve Rooke"  
>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com 
>>> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM 
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things 
>>> 
>>> While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able 
>>> to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the 
>>> vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough 
>>> to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the 
>>> range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work 
>>> involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to 
>>> save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I 
>>> could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period 
>>> of serious extended "looking" around, blind panic started to set in. 
>>> What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of 
>>> the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to 
>>> the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the 
>>> workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup 
>>> of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had 
>>> fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the 
>>> bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my 
>>> "blinded" state of putting them down in the first place, I had 
>>> obviously chosen an poor "safe" place. 
>>> 
>>> After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps 
>>> something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is 
>>> something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and 
>>> removes items from there current place, setting them down in some 
>>> completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something 
>>> increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere 
>>> due to the increased probability of it being "borrowed" by the LW. 
>>> Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually 
>>> your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but 
>>> probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems 
>>> to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure 
>>> there is some law here. 
>>> 
>>> For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. 
>>> 
>>> Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via 
>>> PM. 
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your time, 
>>> Steve 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD 
>>> The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. 
>>> - Einstein 
>>> 
>>> ___ 
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>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
>>> and follow the instructions there. 
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>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 
>>> and follow the instructions there. 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> and follow the instructions there. 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD 
> The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. 
> - Einstein 
> 
> 



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Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things

[d . seiter]

The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc.  The local randomness is 
probably a quantum effect... 



Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Rooke"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM 
Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things 

While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able 
to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the 
vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough 
to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the 
range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work 
involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to 
save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I 
could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period 
of serious extended "looking" around, blind panic started to set in. 
What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of 
the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to 
the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the 
workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup 
of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had 
fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the 
bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my 
"blinded" state of putting them down in the first place, I had 
obviously chosen an poor "safe" place. 

After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps 
something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is 
something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and 
removes items from there current place, setting them down in some 
completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something 
increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere 
due to the increased probability of it being "borrowed" by the LW. 
Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually 
your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but 
probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems 
to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure 
there is some law here. 

For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. 

Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. 

Thank you for your time, 
Steve 

-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD 
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. 
- Einstein 

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Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds...

[d . seiter]

Since when is the Anarchist Cookbook censored??? I have an original copy that 
I'm saving for a sale about 30 years from now. ($$$ I hope) It's really a 
rather simple publication with too much obvious information and questionable 
recipes, or so I've been told by people who should know. 


Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Feher"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2010 4:35:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds... 

Well, I really have not contributed much if anything to this thread, and 
this will be no exception. However, it does remind me of my youth and 
specifically of some of my non electronics related activities. Of course, 
what I am about to disclose below, today would label me a terrorist. 

In the late 50's and early 60's besides electronics, a bunch of my friends 
and I were also interested in explosives and the reactions that various 
chemical combinations could bring. All of the required ingredients were 
available in any drug store, off the shelf. None of our interests had to do 
with actually creating havoc, or harm, but just the ability to do them. The 
now censored "The Anarchist Cookbook" is a joke compared to what we used to 
improvise, and, no one ever got hurt. 

What triggered me to respond to this post was the explosion upon impact 
statement. I devised a very unique, at the time, device that worked just the 
way I wanted. I had a pump action .22 caliber air pistol, on which I made a 
mount to place a rifle scope. It was awesome. Anyway, the .22 pellets were 
hollow, so, inside, in the very front, I place the tip of a self igniting 
match and followed it with gunpowder. Gunpowder of course was readily 
available either from bullets (shot gun) or I just made it. Then I epoxied 
the end to seal it. Overnight they were ready to go. Real neat. When shot, 
upon impact, they of course would explode. Since at the time I was 
considered one of the "brains" at high school, and all my teachers were my 
buddies, they had no objection to me having this pistol in my briefcase at 
school. Heck, I even was a baby sitter for a lot of their kids, and, of 
course, I repaired their broken TVs and radios. I even helped one build a 
house. The last several years of HS, a lot of my teachers signed my yearbook 
as "To 007". I still have those yearbooks, and the best is the one where one 
teacher signed it "To 007 - From Dr. No." 

I better save the more volatile experiments and adventures for another time, 
as this has nothing to do with time-nuts, other than to prove that besides 
time, we are all kind of nuts. Regards - Mike 


Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 
89 Arnold Blvd. 
Howell, NJ, 07731 
732-886-5960 office 
908-901-9193 cell 


-Original Message- 
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill Hawkins 
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 5:39 PM 
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why .30 cal holes can't be seen at 800 yds... 

Group, 

I haven't been following this thread that won't die, but I've 
contributed to others :^) 

If the problem is that it is expensive to detect when a bullet 
hits a target half a mile away, then have I got a solution for 
you! 

Visit any friendly neighborhood terrorist supply store and buy 
a small quantity of PETN, or any other explosive that can be 
detonated by the impact of a bullet. Smear a coating of this 
over the area of the target that you intend to hit. 

When you hit the target, there will be a very bright flash 
with a very fast propagation velocity, which should be adequate 
for the average 10X scope and photosensor. 

No, I don't know where to find a terrorist supply store. Perhaps 
you can make do with the PETN in blasting caps, or brew up a 
batch of nitrogen tri-iodide, as any college freshman could do 
in the fifties. Or try the powders from a Very pistol flare. 

Yours for more creative solutions, 

Bill Hawkins 




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Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again

[d . seiter]

Wasn't there a sci-fi movie with a similar scene? (guy riding bomb, but in 
space) I know I've seen it, but can't place it. 


Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Conlen"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 9:42:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again 

Remember though, they were flying low to stay under radar and evade the 
enemy while going for their secondary target because they couldn't reach the 
first. They dropped from a pretty low target, and probably didn't care since 
as far as they could tell the world wasn't going to be worth living in if 
they got back. 

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Perry Sandeen  wrote: 

> Gents, 
> 
> Wrote: < If you want a sub-microsecond time of death, sit on a bomb like 
> Major T. J. "King" Kong in "Dr. Strangelove," and get your friends to time 
> and triangulate the prompt radiation. That should be good to a few 10's of 
> nanoseconds. 
> 
> Absolutely Not So! 
> 
> The H-Bombs are slowed by parachutes so the bomber can get away. The 
> outside temperature for a B-52 at operating altitude over Russia would 
> likely be at least minus 60 degrees F. 
> 
> Major T, since he was wearing an indoor uniform, would become a solid block 
> of ice before the bomb went off so his TOD has a variance of time between 
> when became a solid chunk of ice and the time of instant defrosting. This 
> could be 30 to 60 seconds. Totally un-acceptable accuracy for even the 
> cadet grade newbe time-nut ;) 
> 
> Why, anyone accepting such an error would have to answer to the Coca Cola 
> company distributor at Burpelson Air Force Base. 
> 
> Carpay Diem, Carpell Tunnel-Whatever 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Perrier 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___ 
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> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Maintaining boatanchors

[d . seiter]

I work with a guy who worked there for years as a CE. He still has contacts; 
it's a real long shot, but I'll give it a shot. 


-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Rabel"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 12:06:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Maintaining boatanchors 

I wish Symmetricom would release source to the old TrueTime / Datum products... 
But I'm sure most of that source code has been lost 
/ thrown away. 

For instance, the older network time servers are much cooler to me than the new 
models. The old stuff was custom designed and 
specifically written / tweaked by hand. The newer time servers are just 
off-the-shelf single board computers, a GPS module, and then 
*maybe* a custom oscillator module Then they just run on a *nix OS with 
some small custom scripts to do the timing and automate 
setup... Just not the same... 

> HP had a program called NOMAS (Not Manufacturer Supported) where 
> they did release the source code to some of their calculator products 


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Re: [time-nuts] I have a new toy

[d . seiter]

I have it's slightly younger cousin, a Wavetek 5100; I thought mine had a 10MHz 
reference, but I could be wrong. Never had an issue with it. 


-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Snyder"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:51:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] I have a new toy 

Magnus Danielson  wrote: 
> On 10/25/2010 05:08 AM, paul swed wrote: 
> > Never heard of one before indeed interesting 
> 
> More or less exactly what I was thinking myself. 
> 
> Would guess it uses the mix and divide strategy used in many of the 
> decade synthesizers of it's time. 

I have an older cousin of it, the Rockland 5100. 1 mHz steps from 
0 - 2 MHz, 8 MHz reference. It's handy for verifying music tuning gear. 
-ls- 


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Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

[d . seiter]

The city of Sunnyvale was thinking of replacing it (the Blue Cube, etc) with 
car dealerships, but decided against it because only 3 dealers would fit. I was 
happy; who needs more car dealers? 


They now want to do something that won't increase traffic too much. They also 
just opened a bike trail in the wetlands behind Moffet (in reality, it took 
them a few years to remove 2 locks). There are still signs back there banning 
cameras (or they were there a year ago). 


Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "J. Forster"  
To: bro...@pacific.net, "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
 
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2010 9:27:20 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver 

About the only doors in the place that did not have electronic combo locks 
were the bathrooms. 

Sad to see it's being shut down. IMO, it was one of the kewl places to be 
in the heddy early days of space. 

OTOH, it probably makes some sense to muve the thing into the bowels of a 
mountain somewhere. 

FWIW, 

-John 

== 



> Hi Dave: 
> 
> Yes, it was right on the central expressway and was part of the GTE 
> military electronics complex. 
> 
> Hi John: 
> 
> My recollection of the antennas at the Blue Cube is that they are out in 
> the open. See photo at: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Cube 
> 
> Have Fun, 
> 
> Brooke Clarke 
> http://www.PRC68.com 
> 
> 
> d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: 
>> 
>> We had similar dome in Sunnyvale (Ca) until the late 80's, but I can't 
>> remember who owned it, maybe GE?; it's all housing now. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dave 
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Arthur Dent" 
>> To: time-nuts@febo.com 
>> Sent: Friday, October 8, 2010 5:06:34 AM 
>> Subject: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver 
>> 
>> Lester Veenstra-“No, Andover Maine.� 
>>  
>> 
>> The white Dacron fabric dome of the station in Andover, 
>> Maine, really stood out and could be seen by hikers on the 
>> tops of mountains miles away. Somewhere I have photos I 
>> took looking down at that white speck in the distance. On 
>> one of my hiking trips I stopped to check out the facility. The 
>> Dacron fabric dome that was held up only by air pressure 
>> (like a carnival funhouse) was still standing but was scheduled 
>> to be taken down in the near future. Below is a link to a video 
>> about Telstar that appeared on the History Channel and another 
>> link to still photos of the horn and the inside of the dome. The 
>> date given for removal in the second link was 1985 but I was 
>> thinking the dome was removed a few years later than that. 
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyfGuSmSHWM 
>> 
>> http://users658.mainememory.net/slideshow/386/display%3Fformat=list&prev_object_id=1050&prev_object=page&slide_num=1.html
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> -Arthur 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> and follow the instructions there. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Have Fun, 
> 
> Brooke Clarke 
> http://www.PRC68.com 
> 
> 
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> 



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Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

[d . seiter]

Close, it was about 2 miles away at about 237 and Central. 
- Original Message - 
From: "J. Forster"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, October 8, 2010 7:26:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver 

Where? Off 401 (101) near the Blue Cube? 

-John 

= 


> 
> 
> We had similar dome in Sunnyvale (Ca)Â until the late 80's, but I can't 
> remember who owned it, maybe GE?; it's all housing now. 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Arthur Dent"  
> To: time-nuts@febo.com 
> Sent: Friday, October 8, 2010 5:06:34 AM 
> Subject: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver 
> 
> Lester Veenstra-“No, Andover Maine.� 
>  
> 
> The white Dacron fabric dome of the station in Andover, 
> Maine, really stood out and could be seen by hikers on the 
> tops of mountains miles away. Somewhere I have photos I 
> took looking down at that white speck in the distance. On 
> one of my hiking trips I stopped to check out the facility. The 
> Dacron fabric dome that was held up only by air pressure 
> (like a carnival funhouse) was still standing but was scheduled 
> to be taken down in the near future. Below is a link to a video 
> about Telstar that appeared on the History Channel and another 
> link to still photos of the horn and the inside of the dome. The 
> date given for removal in the second link was 1985 but I was 
> thinking the dome was removed a few years later than that. Â 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyfGuSmSHWM 
> 
> http://users658.mainememory.net/slideshow/386/display%3Fformat=list&prev_object_id=1050&prev_object=page&slide_num=1.html
>  
> 
> 
> -Arthur      
> 
> 
> Â Â Â Â 
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> 
> 



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Re: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver

[d . seiter]

We had similar dome in Sunnyvale (Ca) until the late 80's, but I can't remember 
who owned it, maybe GE?; it's all housing now. 



Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Arthur Dent"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Friday, October 8, 2010 5:06:34 AM 
Subject: [time-nuts] 60 KHz Receiver 

Lester Veenstra-“No, Andover Maine.” 
 

The white Dacron fabric dome of the station in Andover, 
Maine, really stood out and could be seen by hikers on the 
tops of mountains miles away. Somewhere I have photos I 
took looking down at that white speck in the distance. On 
one of my hiking trips I stopped to check out the facility. The 
Dacron fabric dome that was held up only by air pressure 
(like a carnival funhouse) was still standing but was scheduled 
to be taken down in the near future. Below is a link to a video 
about Telstar that appeared on the History Channel and another 
link to still photos of the horn and the inside of the dome. The 
date given for removal in the second link was 1985 but I was 
thinking the dome was removed a few years later than that.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyfGuSmSHWM 

http://users658.mainememory.net/slideshow/386/display%3Fformat=list&prev_object_id=1050&prev_object=page&slide_num=1.html
 


-Arthur           


       
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out?

[d . seiter]

Between Tboltmon and Ladyheather, you'll see that your unit either works or it 
doesn't. My bet is that it will work just fine, even if the antenna is indoors- 
and then you won't be able to stop watching it (esp. with lady heather) for at 
least a few hours... Have fun! 


Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "russell"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:47:54 PM 
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt initial check out? 

This is my first attempt at having a time reference for my home lab. I have 
recently ordered a pulled / untested Tbolt (board in box wo/ power supply) from 
ebay. It has a 5 day right to return if non functional. While waiting to 
receive the unit, I have been getting things ready here (antenna, power 
supplies w/ connector, and TboltMon). 

My question. Is there a check out procedure or list of things that I can 
test quickly to determine if I have received a functional unit with a decent 
oscillator? I just want to make sure I have not been sent a dud. Longer term I 
can read more, learn, monitor and tweak its performance. I am only trying to 
make sure I have a good platform to start with. 

Thanks for you advice / comments. 
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Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 orientation vs lock

[d . seiter]

Hi Bob- 



I don't have the LPRO in a plugin, but I had considered it, and was wondering 
if any of those that had built one had thermal and/or lock issues. 



Re the sun in our valley... not this year!  My tomatoes just started really 
producing and my squash and zucchini still haven't even flowered.  That has 
NEVER happened to me before.  A very odd year weather-wise! 



Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: k6...@comcast.net 
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:07:19 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LPRO101 orientation vs lock 

I assume you mean Tektronix TM5xx or 5xxx modules. 

I haven't seen an LPRO plugin, but considered doing one for my TM506 rack. My 
conclusion was that I couldn't get rid of enough heat without cutting custom 
fins for the LPRO. 

Recall that the physics package in the LPRO is the biggest source of heat, and 
looking at the unit with the connector facing you and on the left, the physics 
package is along the right side toward the rear of the unit. I decided the way 
to mount the LPRO if I had to go vertical was with the physics package closest 
to the top, to minimize the components that got baked. (I welcome recalibration 
of this opinion from more knowledgeable sources!) 

If I could cut fins for the new "top" edge, as well as a good plate for the 
bottom, and some fans, i might be able to get rid of enough heat to make it 
work. I considered mounting the LPRO to the rear of the module connectors, in 
the area containing the linear power supply components. 

I reconsidered on recalling admonishments in the LPRO docs and on this list 
that cesiums do not like magnetic fields! Mounting the unit next to large power 
transformers wouldn't seem to be suck a good idea... 

You might have better luck running it in a TM5006 rack, as they have much 
better cooling and airflow (a reason to get rid of that 506 and pick up a 
5006!). 

I've had good results with my LPRO mounted on a half inch plate of T6061 
aluminum and an old AMD heatsink+fan mounted above the physics package, held in 
place with arctic silver heat transfer compound and spring-loaded wire clips 
going to the plate. I've been meaning to run noise studies to see if the fan 
causes any problems (vis a vis mag fields). 

Since I expect to be using the LPRO only occasionally, I've been trying to talk 
my son into making me a steampunk-themed case, something like rosewood with 
brass corners and detailing... 

Cheers and 73 -- Bob K6RTM in sunny silicon valley 


On Sep 16, 2010, at 2:51 AM, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: 

> I got one of the ebay LPRO-101s about 6 months ago and played with it for a 
> while, but had problems maintaining a lock. First of all, it has a heat sink 
> bolted to the bottom that is just a little larger than the LPRO itself, 
> including being about 1.25" thick( 1" fins). Typical frequency when locked is 
> 10,000,000.007 on a 5360A clocked by a Z3801A. 
> 
> 
> Both then and now, it takes about 45 seconds to lock from cold, and will stay 
> locked for about 45 minutes. I found that in the position with the heat sink 
> on the bottom will stay locked the longest (up to a few days), but then it 
> becomes intermittent. Other positions will lock for a while, but bottom down 
> always works the longest. 
> 
> 
> For those of you who employed these in TM5xx or similar plugins, did you have 
> lock issues? Is my unit just old? 
> 
> 
> Dave 
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> 



-- 

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End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 74, Issue 77 
* 
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[time-nuts] LPRO101 orientation vs lock

[d . seiter]

I got one of the ebay LPRO-101s about 6 months ago and played with it for a 
while, but had problems maintaining a lock. First of all, it has a heat sink 
bolted to the bottom that is just a little larger than the LPRO itself, 
including being about 1.25" thick( 1" fins). Typical frequency when locked is 
10,000,000.007 on a 5360A clocked by a Z3801A. 


Both then and now, it takes about 45 seconds to lock from cold, and will stay 
locked for about 45 minutes. I found that in the position with the heat sink on 
the bottom will stay locked the longest (up to a few days), but then it becomes 
intermittent. Other positions will lock for a while, but bottom down always 
works the longest. 


For those of you who employed these in TM5xx or similar plugins, did you have 
lock issues? Is my unit just old? 


Dave 
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Christchurch NZ Quake Map

[d . seiter]

Brings back memories- I was on the west coast of the south island in 1990, 
leaning against a large log on the beach very close to the water line at 
sunset, when a quake hit. Being from California, it was fun because I was used 
to experiencing quakes in buildings, cars, etc; but I had never felt one in 
such a "natural" setting. Kind of hard to explain, but it was a very 
other-worldly experience. 


-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Rooke"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 6:16:45 PM 
Subject: [time-nuts] OT: Christchurch NZ Quake Map 

Sorry this is a bit OT but various people have shown interest in what 
is happening over here so you might like to look at this animated map 
showing the progress of the quakes in chronological order. This was 
designed and produced by Paul Nicholls of the University of 
Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand. 

http://www.christchurchquakemap.co.nz/ 

Steve 
-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD 
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. 
- Einstein 

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Re: [time-nuts] Off Topic in the Extreme

[d . seiter]

I used to have a huge problem with my Comcast link going down (in Silicon 
Valley!), but they seem to be MUCH more reliable than a few years ago. The 
problem now appears to be very short outages, which seem to be caused by local 
cell interference with my wifi network. Still trying to figure it out. (ie- the 
stoppages in a streaming netflix movie appeared to be sometimes linked to local 
cell texting traffic) Go figure... 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Attila Kinali"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2010 12:36:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Off Topic in the Extreme 

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:25:55 -0400 
"Bob Camp"  wrote: 

> I suspect that it's not an unusual stance. If it is common, it would be 
> something to think long and hard about in a mission critical timing setup. 

I don't know about the US, but in Europe such a stance would cost 
an ISP most of its customers, hence they cannot allow to say 
"oh, it's not web, we dont guarranty anything if you are not using the web". 
It would be literally their death sentence. 

Usually, the ISPs here are more or less responsive on any issue a customer 
has. The smaller ones better than the bigger ones. Most probably because 
they know if the customer doesnt get what he wants, he'll switch to an other. 


Attila Kinali 
-- 
Why does it take years to find the answers to 
the questions one should have asked long ago? 

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites

[d . seiter]

Hi Steve, 



I don't know what the issue is, but my experience was very similar.  My Tbolt 
is the same (or very similar) to yours and worked fine for a few years off and 
on.  When Lady Heather became available, I took it out again.  It worked great 
with the antenna indoors in my lab for about 4 hours, then data displayed by LH 
gradually dropped off to what you would see if the unit wasn't working.  Since 
then I've tried again many times with the antenna in various locations, 
including full sky view with no results.  No alarms except for the ones you 
would see in a normal start situation.  Did the factory reset, etc.  It has 
never seen a sat since.  The antenna and cable are good. 



My primary receiver is a Z3801A, so I've had little incentive to delve into 
this problem (too many other pressing projects). 



-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Steve"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:09:11 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt not seeing satellites 

Hi all, 

I have used a Trimble Thunderbolt for several years as a source for 
accurate 10MHz signals for counters and signal generators. I have 
occasionally looked at the Thunderbolt with a laptop and Lady Heather, 
but have largely treated the Thunderbolt as a 
plug-and-play-and-forget-about-it device. 

Several weeks ago I acquired one of the fluke.l monitors and attached it 
to the Thunderbolt, placing the fluke.l in a location such that I see it 
every time I walk into my shop. To my dismay, after watching the fluke.l 
for a while, I discovered that my Thunderbolt rarely sees satellites. I 
then began more intense monitoring with Lady Heather, finding that the 
Thunderbolt will on rare occasions show one satellite as usable, most of 
the time none. 

Another Thunderbolt, purchased in May, 2008, when they were sold on this 
list, routinely see 4-8 satellites when connected to the same antenna. 

Input voltage to the poor performing unit is about 28VDC. I did the 
tboltmon.exe Factory Reset with no discernible difference in 
performance. It is the Thunderbolt model in the aluminum housing with 
the red and black Trimble Thunderbolt label on top. 

Any thoughts as to what's wrong with it? 

Steve 

-- 
Read The Patriot Post    Vertitas vos Liberabit 
http://patriotpost.us/subscription/ 


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Re: [time-nuts] Surplus Places...

[d . seiter]

Wow, kind of a cross between the old Halted and Alan Steel in Redwood City. I 
know where to go if I need doorknobs! 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Burt I. Weiner"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 1:24:47 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: [time-nuts] Surplus Places... 

In the Southern, California - Los Angeles area, we have a place 
called Apex Electronics. Some of the prices in the past have been 
outrageous, but now seem to becoming more reasonable. Right now 
there seems to be a ton of NTSC TV stuffs coming in the doors. I 
think you could spend days foraging around at Apex. 

Here's a link that really doesn't even begin to do it justice: 

http://www.apexelectronic.com/ 

Burt, K6OQK 

Burt I. Weiner Associates 
Broadcast Technical Services 
Glendale, California U.S.A. 
b...@att.net 
K6OQK 


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Re: [time-nuts] frying pan antenna

[d . seiter]

I think tar paper basically has two functions these days-  it's a cheap backup 
in case the roofers don't install correctly, and the lines on the paper are 
used as a guide to install the shingles. 



Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Harris"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:44:49 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] frying pan antenna 

Joseph M Gwinn wrote: 
> The tar paper is there primarily to reduce air infiltration when the wind 
> blows.  Now days this purpose is served by the white housewrap, the 
> original brand being Tyvek. 

That doesn't follow.  Most houses in the US have attics below the shingles 
that are open to free air by way of soffit vents. 

Even in the case of cathedral ceilings, the space below the roof sheathing 
is open to the outside air... to not do so will seriously compromise the 
shingle life due to excess heating. 

Tyvek is never used on roofs.  It is always too slippery for walking on. 

> Water that blows past the shingles is stopped by the tarpaper or 
> housewrap, keeping the sheathing and insulation dry. 

Nope. 

There are two layers of shingles over any given part of the roof.  Modern 
asphalt shingles have an asphalt glue down strip that ties the shingle 
tabs to the course below.  There isn't going to be any air infiltration 
of significance. 

Builders and roofers are of a mixed mind over tarpaper.  Many leave it 
off because it is a hazard to the roofers.  The stuff is very slippery 
if it gets even the slightest bit wet. 

The roof stays dry either way. 

-Chuck Harris 

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Re: [time-nuts] The Smell of Tantalum in the Morning

[d . seiter]

I've seen the butt weld (or crimp) of the wire in hermetic units fail due to 
corrosion in both HP and Tek gear.  In all cases (about 6), the gear appeared 
to not have been protected too well from the elements, or was exposed to high 
humidity for a long time.  The good news is that it fails open and is pretty 
obvious. 



Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Harris"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2010 6:46:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The Smell of Tantalum in the Morning 

The history of tantalum failures is wide and varied, but 
there are some common characteristics: 

1) The tantalum is in a power supply circuit and receives 
    a rapid ramp from 0V to operating voltage. 
2) The tantalum is spec'd close to its operating voltage, 
    very close 5V on a 6.3V part, 12.5V on a 15V part... 
3) The tantalum is dry slug, and is sealed with epoxy. 
4) The instrument has been powered down for an extended 
    period. 

HP equipment from the 1980's is pretty immune to the problem 
because they typically use hermetically sealed mil spec 
tantalum capacitors.  Tektronix equipment from the 1980's 
is infested with tantalum problems because they used the 
cheap epoxy dipped parts. 

Tantalum failures are pretty rare in equipment that is 
run continuously.  Tantalum has a self healing feature that 
corrects any small problems while in operating... Large problems 
result in detonation. 

Dipped tantalum capacitors of any age are prone to failure. 
The tendency can be mitigated largely by never allowing a 
tantalum capacitor to see voltage above 50% of its rating. 

And finally, powering a tantalum in reverse, will cause instant 
and irreparable damage. 

-Chuck Harris 



Tom Van Baak wrote: 
> I powered up a 5071A to watch the end of Loran-C today 
> and was greeted by the special smell that only a mother 
> board could love. 
> 
> Does anyone know the history of tantalum capacitor 
> failures in ten-year old [HP/Agilent] test equipment? 
> This is not my first. Last one was more like July 4th. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> /tvb 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] EFRATOM LPRO-101

[d . seiter]

Mine worked great for about two weeks, but now BITE goes high again after about 
45 minutes. It's quite stable when it's locked. Haven't had a chance to look 
closer yet. 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Jim"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 2:08:06 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: [time-nuts] EFRATOM LPRO-101 

Hello all. 

I received an EFRATOM LPRO-101 last week from eBay Fluke 1, and wired it 
up last night. The results are not good. 

Using a HP 5370B counter with calibration less than one year old, the 
frequency reads = 10,000,146,012.9 
Power Applied = 24.9Vdc @ 0.30 amps after warm up 
Lamp Voltage = 5.9 Vdc 
Ext C Field = 2.437 
XTL V Mon = 14.67 
Bite = 4.57 

Bite never goes low. 

I just sent an email to the outfit I purchased it from, but would like 
to get this working instead of waiting a month or so. 

Is it dead? Any thing I can do to revive it? 

Any suggestions? 

Thanks to all. 

Jim N0OBG 


-- 



The heart of the wise inclines to the right, 
but the heart of the fool to the left. Eccl 10:2 (NIV) 



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Re: [time-nuts] [OT] Ikea Lamp

[d . seiter]

I hate the yellow lamps in my area because they are only found in certain 
vicinities. You're driving along at night, maybe searching for something, and 
suddenly one of the "street lamps" turns red! It's happened to me a few 
times... 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Atkinson"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:34:23 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] [OT] Ikea Lamp 


Hi Steve,They do use them in the USA.The advantages are,1 High efficiency2 
Better visibility in rain and fog. As there is only one main colour you do not 
get diffraction rainbows.3 Kind to astronomers. A simple narrow stop band 
optical filter allows astronomers to remove the light pollution. In some areas 
around observatories they are mandated by local planning regulations. 
These are considered to outweigh the disadvantage of no colour rendition. 
Robert G8RPI. 

--- On Sun, 31/1/10, Steve Rooke  wrote: 

From: Steve Rooke  
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] [OT] Ikea Lamp 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Date: Sunday, 31 January, 2010, 9:19 

Not wishing to push this O/T thread more O/T but coming from England, 
and now in New Zealand , we have these sodium streetlights which I 
think are a pain in the neck. They have only two narrow spectra of 
yellow light and although they produce light it makes it hard, if not 
impossible, to make out colours. I wonder if they are being used in 
other members countries? 

Steve 

2010/1/31 Dave Martindale < dave . martindale @ gmail .com>: 
> If you care about accurate colour rendering, stick with incandescent, 
> preferably halogen. "White" LEDs are actually blue LEDs coated with a 
> phosphor that absorbs some of the blue light and emits approximately yellow 
> instead. If you look at the spectrum, you'll see a broad yellow peak and a 
> narrower blue peak. Your eyes see it as approximately white, but it's 
> deficient in red and green compared to a black body emitter like hot 
> tungsten. On the other hand, it's not as spiky as the output of 
> fluorescents . 

-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV & G8KVD 
A man with one clock knows what time it is; 
A man with two clocks is never quite sure. 

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Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

[d . seiter]

I took apart the last dead one just for that purpose. I initially eyed the 
105deg Al cap, but it was dead, along with one of the xstrs (hole in package). 
The film caps, diodes and fuse are still good too. As is the tube- don't know 
what I'll do with that. 

-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Max Robinson"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 12:39:25 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material 

I've heard you can salvage some good rectifiers and maybe a transistor or 
two from dead CF bulbs. 

Regards. 

Max. K 4 O D S. 

Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com 

Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net 
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net 
Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com 

To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. 
funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com 

To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, 
funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com 

- Original Message - 
From:  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
 
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 1:32 AM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material 


> And now "they" are trying to do away with edison bulbs. I hope the LED 
> equivalents are better, because the CF bulbs seem to last less in most 
> home apps. (I have "standard" bulbs that have outlasted multiple CF bulbs 
> in similar applications) In particular, I have a 75W desk lamp bulb which 
> has been in use since '97 and gets more hours than the ceiling CFs in the 
> same room, which have been replaced at least 3 times... 
> 
> They are not enclosed or abused. I was really PO'd at the short life of my 
> first set of CF lamps. They seem to be doing better now, but still there 
> is no great enhanced life span. 
> 
> Dave 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bill Hawkins"  
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>  
> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:28:31 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material 
> 
> Warning: Way OT 
> 
> When the vacuum tube was born, there were half as many people on 
> this planet, and global climate change wasn't a problem. Very few 
> people will talk about populution. It's as if there was a blind 
> spot in the brain. Maybe there's no intelligent life in the 
> Universe because all life evolves with similar selection pressures. 
> Once technology removes natural predators (or stops world wars with 
> the atomic bomb), population heads for the sky until the big die-off. 
> 
> If other people don't have a problem with having four kids, I have 
> no problem with using vacuum tubes and Edison bulbs. 
> 
> All in my humble opinion, of course. 
> 
> Bill Hawkins 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Rex 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:50 PM 
> 
> Steve Rooke wrote: 
>> Wasn't life so much easier with valves (tubes)... 
> Nostalgia? 
> 
> Valves (tubes) warmer in close proximity, yes. Global warming should 
> make that, on average, less helpful. 
>  
> glowing bulbs 
> Other than that memory, and certain trade-offs at big Rf power, I'll say 
> I no longer encourage the glowing bulbs for most things. 
> 
> 
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> 



 



No virus found in this incoming message. 
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.432 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2654 - Release Date: 01/28/10 
19:36:00 


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Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

[d . seiter]

And now "they" are trying to do away with edison bulbs. I hope the LED 
equivalents are better, because the CF bulbs seem to last less in most home 
apps. (I have "standard" bulbs that have outlasted multiple CF bulbs in similar 
applications) In particular, I have a 75W desk lamp bulb which has been in use 
since '97 and gets more hours than the ceiling CFs in the same room, which have 
been replaced at least 3 times... 

They are not enclosed or abused. I was really PO'd at the short life of my 
first set of CF lamps. They seem to be doing better now, but still there is no 
great enhanced life span. 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Bill Hawkins"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:28:31 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material 

Warning: Way OT 

When the vacuum tube was born, there were half as many people on 
this planet, and global climate change wasn't a problem. Very few 
people will talk about populution. It's as if there was a blind 
spot in the brain. Maybe there's no intelligent life in the 
Universe because all life evolves with similar selection pressures. 
Once technology removes natural predators (or stops world wars with 
the atomic bomb), population heads for the sky until the big die-off. 

If other people don't have a problem with having four kids, I have 
no problem with using vacuum tubes and Edison bulbs. 

All in my humble opinion, of course. 

Bill Hawkins 

-Original Message- 
From: Rex 
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:50 PM 

Steve Rooke wrote: 
> Wasn't life so much easier with valves (tubes)... 
Nostalgia? 

Valves (tubes) warmer in close proximity, yes. Global warming should 
make that, on average, less helpful. 
 
glowing bulbs 
Other than that memory, and certain trade-offs at big Rf power, I'll say 
I no longer encourage the glowing bulbs for most things. 


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Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material - OT

[d . seiter]

Please don't let you cat talk to mine! 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas A. Frank"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:56:10 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material - OT 

> The largest discharge we got was from an acrylic rod and the cat. 

Speaking of cats...one of mine has learned that he can rub across the 
blanket on the bed and build up quite a charge. 

In the middle of the night, if one of the other cats is in 'his 
spot', it is not uncommon to find him rubbing vigorously, then going 
over to that cat and lightly tapping him on the butt, dumping his 
charge with a brilliant spark...and a very startled leap from the 
sleeping one. 

Why hiss and pounce and wrestle when you have electricity at your whim? 

Tom Frank, KA2CDK 

P.S. - while thus far he hasn't tried that on us, we have added a 
humidifier to the room, just in case. 



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Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

[d . seiter]

Atari used them by the truckload too, and again, probably due to price. I'm 
sure somebody is probably still producing them, or can. It was a very durable 
item; once, on a lark, we took one that had been run over by a truck and sat 
out in the weather for who knows how long, bent the pins enough to solder it to 
a 40pin header and tried it out in a CBM 8032it worked... 

I kind of wish I had been working back then when stuff was so robust Now we 
have poly Ta caps that have a real shelf life that's not MSL related. 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:03:54 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material 

In message <1548123648.14120691264567016061.javamail.r...@sz0108a.emeryville.ca 
.mail.comcast.net>, d.sei...@comcast.net writes: 

>I guess I wasn't too clear; it was the bare devices we were trying to destroy; 
>the VIC20 was just used for testing. 

The 6502 was a very robust device manufactured in NMOS technology. 

The original target market was motorolas very lucrative military/space 
6800 market, so the chip had to match or exceed the 6800 on all points, 
including accidental damage. 

The first version, the 6501 was in fact pin- but not instruction-compatible 
with 6800, but Motorola had a legal fit and MOS gave up on that idea. 

The fact that 6502 mainly ended up in Commodore computers was mainly 
a matter of its lower price. Later the crash in microprocessor prices 
saddled Jack Tramiel with a huge overpriced inventory which made him 
outright buy MOS to avoid a repeat performance of that problem. 

Poul-Henning 

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe 
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. 

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Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

[d . seiter]

I guess I wasn't too clear; it was the bare devices we were trying to destroy; 
the VIC20 was just used for testing. 

The largest discharge we got was from an acrylic rod and the cat. 

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles P. Steinmetz"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:04:11 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material 

Dave wrote: 

>Back about 1981, we had piles of 6502s, etc and decide to some 
>"antistatic testing". We put a 40pin ZIF socket into a VIC-20, and 
>then set about trying to fry the uP using carpet, a cat, car seats, 
>etc. The DUT was then put back into the VIC and series of tests run 
>to verify operation. I don't think we ever had a failure. Of course, 
>there may have been some hiding that we missed, but all the static 
>damage I've seen has been pretty severe. 
> 
>That said, I always use a wrist strap and mat if I'm working on 
>something I don't want to break further. 

Installed components are generally much less vulnerable to ESD than 
bare parts, because there are leakage paths (both intentional and 
otherwise) on a circuit board that allow the ESD to flow around the 
component rather than through it. With a naked part, any ESD to one 
of its leads has to flow through its other leads or the case of the 
device, thereby maximizing any damage. 

Best regards, 

Charles 







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Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material

[d . seiter]

Back about 1981, we had piles of 6502s, etc and decide to some "antistatic 
testing". We put a 40pin ZIF socket into a VIC-20, and then set about trying to 
fry the uP using carpet, a cat, car seats, etc. The DUT was then put back into 
the VIC and series of tests run to verify operation. I don't think we ever had 
a failure. Of course, there may have been some hiding that we missed, but all 
the static damage I've seen has been pretty severe. 

That said, I always use a wrist strap and mat if I'm working on something I 
don't want to break further. 

-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Charles P. Steinmetz"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 11:27:11 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Conducting Bench Top Material 

Bruce wrote: 

>Although over the years the non-conductive top has been an asset in 
>avoiding short circuits, etc., I am concerned about static discharges when 
>handling modern semiconductors. Would it make sense to spray the Masonite 
>with a weak copper sulphate or similar solution so as to make the masonite 
>slightly conductive, but not so conductive that 155 VAC connections 
>could not 
>safely rest upon it? Is there a better-suited material that could be used 
>to replace the Masonite? 

I notice that many folks who have contributed on this thread use 
anti-static benchtops, but I have never found it necessary (and I try 
to keep the RH in my house under 45% -- it is generally 20% or less 
in the winter). I've been fooling with static-sensitive parts for 35 
years and haven't lost one to static yet. With that perspective, my 
preferred benchtop is white Formica with a very, very slightly 
pebbled surface. Very durable, including to molten solder, and small 
parts show up well. I use rubberized "gunsmith" mats for preventing 
scratches to delicate workpieces (these happen to be anti-static, but 
that is not why I have them). 

Other bench thoughts: 

Bench depth is very important. I sometimes work on equipment that is 
more than 24" deep, so I want at least 30" of clear space in front of 
any obstructions (power strips, Variac, test equipment, 
whatever). In the past, I used a "flying bridge" over the rear 18" 
of a 48"-deep bench to elevate the test equipment, which worked very 
well. Now I use 24" deep adjustable wire-rack shelving units behind 
a 30" benchtop (As others have pointed out, you can do the same with 
equipment racks -- I'm not a fan of rack-mounting test equipment 
unless the racks are anchored and everything is on slides, which I 
was not prepared to do). I don't have enough shop real estate to 
have a permanent access aisle behind the test equipment, so the bench 
and racks have large (5") locking polyurethane wheels and can be 
pulled out relatively easily for reconfiguration. This provides 
plenty of stability for electronic projects, but you wouldn't want to 
mount a big vise on the bench and try to bend 1" rebar. For that, I 
have a separate metalworking shop. 

Bench height is also important. I prefer a tall bench, suited to 
working standing or sitting on an ergonomic stool, so my bench top is 
44" above the floor -- a bit below my standing elbow height. 

Finally, one can never have too many power outlets, or too much 
light, in a workshop. Lighting should be arranged so that it doesn't 
cause specular reflections from the workpiece or the faces of test equipment. 

Best regards, 

Charles 





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Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment

[d . seiter]

HA! The B&T remover is one of my faves when nothing else works, and I don't 
want to use the realy nasty stuff like paint remover. I was given a can about 
15 years ago and I'm just now running out. 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Rex"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:04:46 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment 

paul swed wrote: 
> It also helps to simply clean the stuff. A bit of soap 
> and water and scrubbing gets years of grunge off. 
> 

I have found that Bug and Tar Remover, sold to clean cars, works well on 
front panels. It seems to be strong enough to soften label gunk, but not 
strong enough to mar front-panel paint. 


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Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment

[d . seiter]

Even worse are the tables with plastic tops...instasag! I've scavenged a few 
local leg sets from dumped tables on the curb for future projects. My lab has 
particle board tops covered with anti-stat matts, but they are sitting on 2 
drawer filing cabinets and there is no sag. I have 4 racks currently in the 
house and garage; in one case, the rack out weights the contents by quite a 
bit. It will still be working after the roaches take over the world... 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "John Miles"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:37:55 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Test Equipment 

> Another important aspect of the electronic test bench is the furniture. 
> 
> I started with the cheapie particle board "fold up legged" tables and 
> very soon 
> learned they could not hold much weight without significant sagging. 

If you have the space, you could do what I do, and bolt multiple folding 
tables together with 'L'- and 'T'-shaped flat metal brackets. The idea, 
besides adding surface area, is to dampen the tables' tendency to wobble. 
This adds a surprising amount of stability and load-bearing capacity. It 
completely eliminates the need to add a center leg, which is otherwise 
pretty much mandatory when using folding tables. 

With cheap folding tables, you don't have to feel bad about drilling into 
your workbench or otherwise marring and gouging it. Every few years, or 
when you move, just throw the old folding table away and spend $39.95 on 
another one. Voila, a brand new workbench. 

> Many industrial equipment catalogs will give you an idea of the 
> accessories possible. 
> Shelves, drawers, electrical outlet strips.etc. 
> 
> An effective infrastructure will allow the test bench to gradually grow, 
> as the budget allows. 

Also, HP/Agilent equipment racks are sometimes available on eBay. These are 
nothing like the relay racks or server racks that you commonly see in data 
centers. They are *stout*. They're very expensive when new, but almost 
free for the shipping when bought used. I used generic shelving units to 
hold test equipment for a long time, but once you use real racks, you won't 
go back. 

An Agilent E3662A/B rack can hold up to 81 EIA units of gear weighing up to 
1800 pounds. I have three in my living room and wish I had more... 

-- john, KE5FX 


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Re: [time-nuts] LPRO in TM500

[d . seiter]

Hi Corby, 

I had decided to put the LPRO in another box, but then other things came up, 
and now that I have time again, I'm thinking about returning to the TM module. 
I'm curious as to what voltage regulator you used? The input and output are so 
close that I'd thought only a dc-dc converter could do it. 

Happy holidays! 

Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Corby Dawson"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2009 10:09:51 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: [time-nuts] LPRO in TM500 

Dave, 

I have in the past installed a number of FRSC and also PRS10 into single 
slot TM500 modules. 

If I remember correctly I used a thick (about 1/8") aluminum plate most 
of the length of the module as the mounting and heat sink. 

The edge of the plate was attached to the module with screws and aluminum 
angle brackets to allow the top and bottom of the module to also help 
with the heat sinking. 

They all worked fine. 

If you use a dual wide module you will have more room to work with and 
maybe could used a finned heat sink. 

The edge connector used was one from a guy on ebay that made custom ones 
to use with TM500 Modules. 

You just screw it into place in the module using the existing holes. 

For power I paralleled the two 25VAC windings, fed them thru a full wave 
bridge into a largish capacitor, and then into a regulator set for 22VDC. 

The regulator is isolated with a silpad and bolted to the top frame of 
the module. 

The 10Mhz output is on the front along with a lock LED. 

Hope this helps. 

Corby Dawson 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Disk Drive recovery.

[d . seiter]

Boy, does that bring back memories!  I have had a bunch of SCSI drives with 
this problem.  One drive in particular was so bad that I had to use a plier to 
free the spindle (about 1/4" was exposed for a grounding tab).  I couldn't 
afford a replacement at the time, so I kept hoping it would keep working, which 
it did until I found a good deal on a removable cartridge drive  (can't think 
of the name now, but the cartridges were about 5" square).  I probably still 
have it around somewhere. 



-Dave 

This reminds me of the ancient Seagate 
insufficient startup torque problem.  At work 
I was able to unfasten the hard drive and, at 
power-up, give the drive a quick physical 
rotation, just enough to get it spinning and 
then copy the user's data from it.  Of course, 
users don't back up their files. 


Mike - AA8K 


Dave Baxter wrote: 
> For many "failed" hard drives, it's not a "hardware" failure at all, but 
> a very corrupted data surface, rendering even the drives own error 

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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt can't find sats

[d . seiter]

I have one of the red label Thunderbolts, which worked great until this summer 
when I was playing with Lady Heather. The antenna was in the lab with me, and 
everything was working just fine. The data LH was providing started looking odd 
and diminished to flatline (I wish I could remember exactly what was happening, 
but I was just getting used to LH). 

I shelved it for a while until this last weekend, when I moved everything 
outside so the antenna would have a great view of the sky. Tboltmon showed a 
green board except for satellite tracking, osc disciplining, and almanac. I 
left it running for ~48 hours and it never picked up a sat. The SV numbers do 
change, but that's it. The DAC voltage is 0.0, and the DAC value is 0x8000. 
A forced self-survey changes the survey lamp to yellow, but the survey never 
goes past 1% (no sats). 

Anyone seen this before or have any hints? About the only thing I haven't tried 
is the factory reset. 

Thanks, 

Dave 
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[time-nuts] Efratom LPRO101 in a Tek TM500 plug-in housing?

[d . seiter]

Has anyone built a LPRO-101 into one of these plugin housings? I'm toying with 
the idea, but don't want to reinvent the wheel. My biggest concern is getting 
rid of the heat. 

-Dave 
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Re: [time-nuts] Any Time nuts in AU?

[d . seiter]

I'm not in AU (left coast US), but I've got a clock on my office wall that runs 
backwards (the numerals progress CC too). I think I got it as a gift years ago 
when Dick Smith had a store in the area. It didn't last very long. 

Cheers, 

-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Joseph Gray"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 3:14:14 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Any Time nuts in AU? 

Does time run backwards down there? :-) 

Joe Gray 
KA5ZEC 

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Ray Hudson  wrote: 
> Just a test to see if I can send to the mailing list and to find out how many 
> "time nuts" are in the land down under 
> 
> Thanks Ray. 
> 
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 
> 
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> 

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Re: [time-nuts] GPS from a window seat

[d . seiter]

It's so nice that they allow pacemakers "all the time"! I'd hate to think 
people would have to turn them off for flights... 

Why the ban on AM/FM receivers? 

-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas A. Frank"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 1:31:08 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS from a window seat 

> saying angrily "using a GPS on a 
> plane is illegal". 


Nonsense...unless their own rules prohibit such use, in which case 
you are legally obliged to comply. There is no blanket (ie: 
government) rule against them. 

It is up to the airline; in the past year I've flown a number of 
different airlines. Some said in their in-flight magazine that GPS 
use was allowed, others said it wasn't, and some didn't say anything 
at all. 

For example, Southwest airlines specifically allows the use of GPS 
units: 

http://www.spiritmag.com/flightservices/flight-services.pdf 

US Airways implies they're OK, but is not explicit: 

http://www.usairwaysmag.com/inflight_information/passenger_information/ 

Either Jetblue or United prohibit GPS', but I cannot find anything on 
their websites (they are the other two airlines I've recently flown, 
so it's one of them where I saw the prohibition). 

No rhyme or reason to it at all. 

Tom Frank, KA2CDK 
(frequent flyer...and gadget user) 



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Re: [time-nuts] RoHS Solder

[d . seiter]

It's not the silver I'm worried about. I saw a report on a website about 8 
months ago regarding the scarcity of many of the rare earths that drive solar, 
etc (yes, I've tried to find the report again, but can't). This was prior to 
the whole China export thing. It predicted that many "vital" elements would be 
mined out by the 2015-2020 time frame. 

I wonder how long it will be until we start mining old garbage dumps for 
metals. 

-Dave 

.. ... 

Another part of the scam is that only two companies (one a University if I 
remember correctly, one a Japanese company) hold the patents to the Silver 
based solder that everyone now needs to use... And according to the USGS 
we are quickly running out of mineable Silver.. 

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Re: [time-nuts] Agilent 05071-60294 05071-60219 oscillators

[d . seiter]

I've dealt with Outback more than a few times because they are local to me. I 
have never had an issue with them, and they've let me wander around and make 
offers on stuff that wasn't active. Finding their physical location was the 
only challenge... but they were the seller here- I've seen the opto table in 
person. 

-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike S"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:26:04 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Agilent 05071-60294 05071-60219 oscillators 

At 12:28 AM 8/31/2009, Jim Palfreyman wrote... 
>Well these "two" bidders are one (outback6)... My guess is their 
>plan is to buy these oscillators in bulk and then sell them off 
>individually to make a profit. 

Uh, outback6 is the _seller_. eBay doesn't disclose buyer's names 
directly anymore, just a hint. For one auction, it was "k***u", a power 
seller with sales of 800+, for the other it was "_***b", who has a 
rating of 126. 


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Re: [time-nuts] does no one like the Racal-Dana 1998 counter?

[d . seiter]

Don't know; I have an RD 1996 that is my main counter. No complaints at all. 

-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Burris"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:19:54 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: [time-nuts] does no one like the Racal-Dana 1998 counter? 

I've seen lots of discussion about the 1992 counter over the past year. 
But I've 
seen nothing about the 1998 counter, which I have, and it seems to have 
similar 
specifications. If you are collecting test equipment for a home lab (ahem), 
is the 1992 more desirable than the 1998? Does the 1998 suffer from the 
same 
front panel button failures? 

Anyone happen to know where to find a service manual for a 1998? I already 
have a users manual. 

Scott 


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Re: [time-nuts] Obscure terms - enough!

[d . seiter]

I think someone needs to take chill-pill and relax... are you humorless or just 
an idiot? 

I get tired of off-topic posts too, but I'd rather laugh than grind my teeth 
over something light and fluffy... 

Life is too short for negative stuff... laugh a little and live 
longer... 

Dave (I don't apologize for anything, and I'm happy!) 
- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Cheney"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:24:07 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: [time-nuts] Obscure terms - enough! 

> An off-topic from time to time is great, but a new email every minute 
> unrelated with time-nuts is a bit too much, didn't you think ? 
> 
> Sorry, I don't want to be rude. 

Don't apologise. Why the posters think this puerile off-topic drivel is 
acceptable on the time-nuts list beats me. If they were to reread their 
postings in a couple of months, they might realise how childish they have 
made themselves look. 

Chris 

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Re: [time-nuts] Difference in GPS antennas

[d . seiter]

As I recall, this is the type of antenna my handheld GPSr has. I had a set of 
batteries bleed out in and had to disassemble it in order to do a good 
cleaning. 

-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Magnus Danielson"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:27:30 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Difference in GPS antennas 

Lux, Jim (337C) wrote: 
> 
> 
> On 8/15/09 7:58 AM, "Magnus Danielson"  wrote: 
> 
 
 
>>> Thats a quadrifilar helix antenna. 
>> A quite traditional antenna form. 
>> 
>> Not sure I have one of those around here. 
>> 
>> 
> 
> If you're near a harbor with fishing boats, you'll see plenty of quad 
> helices about a half a meter in overall height, used for VHF Weather 
> satellite reception. They're also used on spacecraft (Mars Science Lander, 
> Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, and Phoenix all have UHF quad helix antennas, I 
> think, for about 400 MHz) 

Not used by the fishing vesels near me... 

I didn't mean helixantennas as such, I was just asking myself the 
question if any of my *GPS* antennas was infact of the quadra-helix 
design, a few of them have the sizes that they *could* be that. 

> The 4 helices need to be fed in the appropriate phase (0,90,180,270), 
> usually, they're fed in pairs (a differential signal feeds 0,180 and another 
> feeds 90/270) 
> 
> There are several ways to phase them, depending on the bandwidth 
> requirements. A quadrature hybrid is one way. The other is to make one helix 
> slightly longer than resonant and the other slightly shorter. 

A typical GPS sat has two rings of helix antennas, an inner and outer 
ring. These create a far-distance shape of lobes that i circularly 
fairly even but pushes more energy towards the edge of the earth, as 
seen from the satellite, such that the additional space loss from 
increased distance is being somewhat equalized by the GPS antenna. 

That's the trick being used to reduce the power variations from the GPS 
sats as experienced by the user. 

Cheers, 
Magnus 

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Re: [time-nuts] US ebay sellers who won't ship outside the US

[d . seiter]

More inept governmental garbage. I rarely buy surplus anymore, but when I do, 
it all gets broken down into parts/assemblies for spares and all markings are 
removed and it goes into scrap mode. Occasionally, I have to build up something 
from parts on hand, which can be fun... Come to think of it; I haven't received 
any emails from gov auction sites in a while, have some gone out of business? 


- Original Message - 
From: "John May"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:47:43 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] US ebay sellers who won't ship outside the US 

But it makes you glad you're an engineer rather than a pointy haired 
bureaucrat! 

That incident reads like a Dilbert comic strip. 

Pete Lancashire wrote: 
> When I was at Tek in the 80's I received some assembles from a 
> company in China to check out for component issues. I was denied 
> their return due to some parts being on the list .. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message- 
>> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:40 PM 
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement 
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] US ebay sellers who won't ship outside the US 
>> 
>> In message , "Lux, James P (337C)" 
>> writ 
>> es: 
>> 
>>> ITAR and EAR are complex and[...] 
>> Actually, the Vasenaar Convention made all that a lot simpler. 
>> 
>> 
>> --- 
>> Not that much simpler.. 
>> You still have the Basic List and Munitions list, and the terms on the 
>> list are vague enough that there's a lot of room for interpretation. Start 
>> fooling with software defined radios that do things like automatically 
>> identify the type of modulation, and you're right into dual-use territory. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Antennas, roofs

[d . seiter]

In my case, I have a large number of low angle peaks and valleys (hence the 
leakage issue); my sky view is really good, and I'm planning on putting a set 
of parallel horizontal bars about 18" apart between my 4" sewer riser and 
another point about 15' away. All cables will be going through a 5" roof T vent 
which happens to be attached to nothing in particular (I had to insert a screen 
to keep the roof rats out- they were not happy!). The big issue is that I can't 
get inside the crawl space of the area in question, so I need to wait for drier 
weather to rip up the existing roof and put everything in place. 

Sigh... 

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Winterling"  
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:33:40 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Antennas, roofs 

Hal, 

If your new roof will have a ridge vent you can poke the antenna cables 
through it to the outside leaving enough slack to create a drip loop before 
continuing to the antenna(s). Since the ridge vent follows the slope of the 
roof the cable will exit on the down side so water will run off. 

Ken, WA2LBI 


On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 19:18, Hal Murray  wrote: 

> 
> > I really need to put in a feed through to the roof because my Z3801A 
> > is struggling with an indoor antenna too; but the roof needs to get 
> > replaced first... 
> 
> Speaking of antennas and roofs 
> 
> Currently, my antennas are inside. That's good enough most of the time. 
> It's also good for providing nasty test cases to software. 
> 
> I also need a new roof. 
> 
> 
> I'm scheming to poke a hole in the roof so I can get some antennas in a 
> better position. 
> 
> If I have more than one antenna, does it matter how near eachother they are 
> located? 
> 
> 
> I'm picturing a plastic pipe that sticks up a few feet and a bracket at the 
> base that has the right magic angle to match the pitch of my roof. The 
> pipe 
> would screw or glue into the bracket. The bracket would get screwed to the 
> roof over a hole. The cables would go through the hole and up inside the 
> pipe. 
> 
> I haven't worked out the details for the top of the pipe yet. My 
> (handwave) 
> straw man is a U turn to keep the rain out, and mount the antennas on the 
> main pipe. Maybe a T to get them out to the side. 
> 
> 
> Do brackets like that exist? If so, what term or brand do I google for? I 
> have a typical not-very-steep sloped roof. Is there a standard angle? ... 
> 
> Plan B would be to stick the pipe through the roof and attach it inside to 
> the side of a rafter. I assume the roofers can treat it like a plumbing 
> vent 
> pipe. 
> 
> 
> A slightly crazy idea... Has anybody poked antennas up inside a skylight? 
> I'm thinking of the setup which has a hole in the ceiling of a room, a box 
> from that hole through the attic space up to and through the roof, and a 
> plastic dome on top. A shelf or bracket on the inside of the box would get 
> the antennas almost on the outside. 
> 
> 
> I've seen ads for metal roofs/shingles, the claimed advantage being long 
> life 
> which is attractive to me. I assume they would be a disaster for antennas 
> inside. What about outside, slightly above the roof? I'd expect bad 
> things, 
> but maybe there is some way to turn it into an advantage. 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather display is GREAT!!!

[d . seiter]

Hi Mark- 



I hope your right!   The thing is that this Tbolt has always behaved itself w/ 
the indoor antenna and has never taken long to stablize.  When it stops 
raining, I'll stick it outside and see what happens.  I really need to put in a 
feed through to the roof because my Z3801A is struggling with an indoor antenna 
too; but the roof needs to get replaced first... 



-Dave 
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Sims"  
To: time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:04:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather display is GREAT!!! 


That sounds like your indoor antenna is the problem.   I have had very poor 
luck with indoor antennas.  Even my outdoor antenna is rather bad...  too many 
very big trees.   

I get constant satellite constellation changes (sometimes several times a 
minute).   My first self survey took three days to complete.  Where my antenna 
is now,  I can complete a survey in a couple of hours (but at only a couple of 
times each day). 

Also many GPS receivers tend to  have a hard time starting up when they have 
not been used for a while.  It takes a long time for the oscillator to 
stabilize enough to work properly.  I had a tbolt that had not been used for a 
couple of years.  It took about a week before it settled down enough to be 
really usable.   


 

However, about 2 hours into my test it started loosing sats (indoor antenna, 3 
to 6 sats at any given time; 
_ 
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather display is GREAT!!!

[d . seiter]

Lady Heather is great; I finally had a chance to try her out. 

However, about 2 hours into my test it started loosing sats (indoor antenna, 3 
to 6 sats at any given time; it lost 5 over the course of about 2 minutes) and 
now the tbolt won't acquire anything. This, of course has nothing to do with 
LH, but I'm wondering if it went belly-up. I'm going to let it cool down 
completely and try restarting. The only alarms it displays are discipline and 
satellite. When it died I was away for a few minutes, and nothing touched it. I 
tried a warm restart, and I saw it try to grab a sat once over a 20 minute 
span. I haven't used it in months, but it has always been reliable. 

-Dave 
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Re: [time-nuts] Off Topic question...

[d . seiter]

http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/destinationUnitedStates.aspx

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: WB6BNQ  

> Dave, 
> 
> I would think the immigration people in the UK would probably have some idea 
> in 
> that regard. At least it would not hurt to ask them. 
> 
> BillWB6BNQ 
> 
> 
> Dave Ackrill wrote: 
> 
> > Sorry for the off topic question, but my partner, Kate, is off visiting 
> > friends in Canada and USA on Friday and is in 'panic' mode. 
> > 
> > The problem is that she has now got it into her head that she might need 
> > to get innoculated for 'something', but she doesn't know what and I 
> > don't think she needs any jabs... 
> > 
> > However, as the US immigration people are on holidays for the 
> > Presidential inauguration, she can't get a reply until it's too late to 
> > do anything about arranging to go to see the Dr. to get any jabs she 
> > 'might' need. 
> > 
> > So, can anyone tell me what jabs, if any, visitors to Canada or the USA 
> > might be asked if they have had recently? 
> > 
> > Thanks - Dave 
> > 
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Re: [time-nuts] beryllium oxide

[d . seiter]

Since we're on the subject, what does BeO typically look like when it's used as 
a washer, heatsink, etc.  I ask because I tend to keep everything and I modify 
things all the time.  Is there any way besides being painted that it could pass 
as Al?

-Dave 
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Re: [time-nuts] US Shipping Was huntron tracker advice

[d . seiter]

My local Dovebid people (Hayward, CA) have always been great to work with, and 
have bent over backwards to help me, but I haven't purchased anything from them 
lately because the bids have been higher than they used to be. Of course, there 
is no shipping involved because I pick up the items. The gear is usually in 
better condition than epay.  It's the govliquidation folks that I hate to deal 
with...

-Dave
 -- Original message --
From: Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> BTW since we are talking about Ebay, they are not the only game in town.
> I buy lots of laboratory instruments of Dovebid. Dovebid has been
> purchased my Go-industry and their site is a mess. They are also
> incredibly cruel bastards. When you purchase something from them you buy
> it as-is, where-is. You need to hire someone from a UPS store to come to
> the auction site, pick it up, pack it and ship it to you. They charge
> you the state taxes and they will rarely refund them to you. Despite the
> fact that they are so evil, much of the equipment is cheaper and of much
> higher quality then that found on Ebay, you just need to find out why it
> is being liquidated to begin with. Companies that are shutting down are
> usually safer then those still standing. They always have scopes and
> other equipment such as x-ray inspection units etc...
> 
> Equipnet and Bidspotter are two other sites that may be of use from time
> to time-Patrick
> 
> Patrick wrote:
> > I am on the lower end(maybe dumbest) of the intelligence spectrum on
> > this list when it comes to pure electronics. However I have plenty to
> > offer in logistics. I ship all over the world, this week it was Nigeria
> > and Lebanon from my home based business in Canada.
> >
> > Virtually all of my parts come from the U.S.
> >
> > I have a P.O box at a UPS store in New Hampshire. I had one in N.Y state
> > before but I ended up paying state taxes for certain items. It is
> > hopeless to claim these taxes back as a foreign entity. N.H has 0% state
> > taxes, taxes are due in the state that you take possession in. However
> > if you arrange for shipping via a third party some states, such as
> > Michigan, will have deemed you to already have taken possession even
> > though you never entered the country.
> >
> > With the dark spectra of a severe recession looming on most of us I find
> > myself in a peculiar situation. I have little money but the cliente`le I
> > service are dying for the products I sell. I could easily sell >20X what
> > I do now. I have been trying to slow my business down for months in the
> > hope of re-organizing myself but to no avail. I can't hire anyone, as I
> > work from home due to some health issues with my Wife and Son.
> >
> > I can't promise anything at this time but if someone would like help
> > shipping items out of the U.S(or Canada) I would love to help. The
> > logistics of servicing unknown equipment from a far is likely impossible
> > to overcome but I have plenty of work that needs to get done. If
> > something could be worked out I would gladly pay for shipping or
> > shipping & labor for help with my business.
> >
> > -Patrick
> >
> >
> > Neville Michie wrote:
> >   
> >> Many US or UK sellers will sell out of their country if you email  
> >> them and ask them,
> >> even if they list as home country only.
> >> I bought an HP 54501A oscilloscope from US, and it was sent to  
> >> Australia.
> >> Cost 30% more with the freight, but it was still only a few hundred  
> >> dollars,
> >> and I would not have found anything as useful in Australia at the price.
> >> cheers, Neville Michie
> >>
> >> On 27/11/2008, at 7:55 PM, Steve Rooke wrote:
> >>
> >>   
> >> 
> >>> Hmmm... International Traffic in Arms Regulations, well I don't like
> >>> to poke holes in that excuse but unless the US customs are REALLY
> >>> paranoid, I can't see how most of the items I have tried to purchase
> >>> would be covered under this. But, I suppose you could poke someone in
> >>> the eye with a ball-point pen therefore it could be labled an an arm
> >>> but I'm sure there are other reasons for most of refusals to ship
> >>> outside the 48 States. It's not just a couple of dealers who take this
> >>> position, it seems to be the case with a number of sellers sadly.
> >>>
> >>> What I need is a magic wormhole that runs from a US address and ends
> >>> up in my home. Anyone got a design for one of these, sort of like a
> >>> stargate :-)
> >>>
> >>> 73, Steve - ZL3TUV
> >>>
> >>> 2008/11/27 Robert Atkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>> 
> >>>   
>  One reasion why many US dealers will not ship otside the USA is  
>  the ITAR export regulations (Google it!). These are very hard to  
>  follow and the penalties are heavy. I know a couple of dealers  
>  have been warned and have just decided not to export anything  
>  rather than take the risk.
>  Robert G8RPI.
> 
>  --- On Thu, 27/11/08, Steve Rooke 

Re: [time-nuts] Any nixie project people out there?

[d . seiter]

Hi David-

Any takers yet?  While the last thing I need is another nixie counter (I have 4 
or 5 already), I do have a soft spot for nixies, and hate the way so much gear 
has been chopped up for trendy clocks.  That said, what I'd really like to do 
is make an accurate, self turning hour glass that drives a nixie clock.  Or 
maybe a GPS disciplined hour-glass driving a nixie clock.  How the hour-glass 
could be disciplined, except in turn-over speed, I'm not sure.  It's still in 
the planning stage.  My purchasing budget has been greatly reduced due to the 
economy, so I'm looking for deals where I wouldn't have before. 

-Dave
 -- Original message --
From: "David Medin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
>I appreciate the assistance I've gotten here in getting my Tbolts set
>up and generating that beautiful traceable 10 MHz for my benches at
>home and work.
> 
>I've got a giveback IF someone plans to put it to good use. My
>faithful Ballantine 5700A 9 digit nixie frequency counter isn't
>counting so well in its upper range as of last week, and as much as I
>have some affinity for it (I've had it for over 20 years), I have no
>time to repair it and have a more modern counter with my Tbolt now
>driving the reference. If anyone out there is looking for a nixie
>project for a clock or just simply wanting to use the parts, let me
>know. I'm not really looking for anything for it, but I'd rather just
>drop it off at a UPS shipping store and have them package and send it
>at your cost, and that would be your only obligation. It has a 1 MHz
>(I believe, because the external reference is 1 MHz) ovenized
>oscillator on a PC board, 9 digits of working nixies soldered to the
>PCB, a gate to 10 seconds, and a range of 10 Hz to 512 MHz, although
>the upper octave is not working properly and indicating about twice
>the applied frequency. It is chock full of ECL and TTL including the
>nixie driver TTL, most in sockets, so it should be real accessible for
>those wanting to turn it into something else where just the drivers
>and divider chain would be of use. The case comes together with Dzus
>on top and bottom, and has a few dents and also a spot where the NASA
>inventory tag used to be years ago. It does work, top range aside. I
>do NOT have a manual.
> 
>No takers, and the nixie driver chips will go on ebay, but I'd rather
>give it to someone who can use it in only the whacky way a Time Nut
>can.
> 
>Thanks.
> 
>Dave Medin
>  _
> 
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>http://www.TechEmail.com
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[time-nuts] Any ex-Cylink or PCom folks out there?

[d . seiter]

Any ex-Cylink or Pcom folks out there?  

-Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] AC Connector On HP 5061B

[d . seiter]

The cable length issue was a pain for me because I built my GPS box in stages, 
leaving the dist amp for last.  In the end I found a nice used commercial unit, 
but it didn't fit in the planned location (the unit I was going to build would 
have had outputs near the center of the box), so I have 3 nicely routed cables 
going to the front panel, and the other 5 are ugly coils stuffed above and 
below the Z3801A for the rear panel.

-Dave


> 
> On the DA you will want to ensure all your output cables are of 
> identical length as this will ensure that all signals are in phase at 
> the timebase input(s). It's a small thing really a fraction of a 
> picosecond but it's there and easily compensated for. 
> 
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[time-nuts] Need a simple ID for some gear

[d . seiter]

I don't know a whole bunch about microwave gear, so I need a little help.  I 
came across a small box in a pile this evening and I don't have a clue what it 
is.

It's a T construct, with SMAs at both ends of the horizontal.  The vertical end 
looks like it's terminated to gnd.  Internal construction in a plate which 
connects all three terminals.  Above and below the plate is a ceramic triangle 
with a circular black insert.  Each plate of the outer case has a circular 
magnet the same size as the black insert on the ceramic plates, on the external 
side, and there is a U shaped steel clamp which covers the entire assembly.  

This is probably a really easy question for some of you out therewhat is it?

I also came across some K&L filters from my time at Cylink, but the website 
gave me no joy.  When the sample says S/N 1, I don't expect much...  I suppose 
I could just feed a signal through them and see where the outputs occur  
both series have 5787.5 embedded n the part number, so I'm thinking that's the 
center or cutoff frequency.

-Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] What outdoor antenna for Tbolt?

[d . seiter]

I'm not sure about the manufacturer of mine, the label just has a serial 
number, made in usa, and part number 25045-10.  It came with my tbolt when I 
got it from ebay a few years ago. The whole set including the ps and a bunch of 
coax was $199 (buy it now)

-Dave
 -- Original message --
From: "David Medin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>What outdoor bullet antenna are people using for their Tbolts
>(manufacturer and model number), where did you find it, and how much
>did you pay for it? I'm looking at several eBay antennas and the like
>crossing my fingers that the bias voltage and current will work, but
>I'd rather get some advice from those of you that have actually done
>the deed. I'm only really interested in antennas designed for permanent
>outdoor or marine installation.
> 
>Thanks!
> 
>Dave Medin
>  __
> 
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>http://www.TechEmail.com
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Re: [time-nuts] OT- R&K devices?

[d . seiter]

The parts I have don't have date codes, but they must be circa 1990.  Is there 
any data out there regarding R&K devices?  My library has nothing and the web 
appears to be silent too. 
 -- Original message --
From: Jeffrey Pawlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> They were a competitor to minicircuits and others. Tried to win by being very
> inexpensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[time-nuts] OT- R&K devices?

[d . seiter]

I'm drawing a blank on a blank on a pile of R&K devices I just found in a few 
boxes I had forgotten about.  They look like relays or filters (2x4 pin, 
non-hermetic metal case, 10x10x20mm), internally it looks like an active device 
with a balun on both sides under silicone.  I remember R&K, but I can't find 
any info on the web. I have about 70 of them in different flavors. 

Any leads?  -Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second Pending

[d . seiter]

The mechanical 
> clepsydra shown overleaf is simple in operation. The cylindrical 
> vessel is slowly filled with water and a float with a stem and rack 
> engages the wheel to which the hour hand is attached. As the vessel 
> fills so the float rises and the hour hand is made to rotate. When 
> the vessel is full it is emtied (sic) and the process starts over 
> again. While this type of clock is spectacular and one would like 
> to think it is of ancient origin, it has to be recorded that no 
> ancient example has been handed down to us.

Actually, if I'm visualizing this correctly, a similar design was built by the 
ancient Greeks. I recall a article in National Geographic about the "Tower of 
the Winds" (or similar).  The source of the water stream was a tank that 
constantly overflowed, maintaining constant water pressure.  There was little 
to go on as far as actual physical evidence, so maybe it was wishful thinking 
and has been debunked since?

-Dave
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[time-nuts] Grounding a Z3801A

[d . seiter]

I'm finally getting around to reinstalling my Z3801A after frying and then 
fixing the on-board power supply, but I'm really paranoid about doing it again 
(I had forgotten that the unit has a positive ground).  The external supply had 
floating outputs, the AC input was grounded to the chassis and the case of the 
Z3801A was grounded.  I also realized that the external clock display board was 
grounded to both the chassis and the internal ground of the Z3801A, which is 
probably where the short came from.

In this next attempt, the external PS AC input ground will be eliminated and 
it's case will be isolated from the chassis.  The Z3801A will also be isolated 
from the chassis, as will the display assembly.  That leaves the RS232 cable, 
which is grounded as it passes through the front of the chassis, and the signal 
outputs.  

Should I isolate the rs-232 as well?  What about a double dc block on the 
output signals? I realize this all sounds a bit extreme...

-Dave.  

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt monitor

[d . seiter]

I too have never seen one go dim.  In fact, I have a VCR (Beta!) that's been 
pluged in continously since I got it new in the early '80s.  It still looks the 
same as when I got it except that the display has had a left to right wave 
going through it since about 1995.  So, wavy- but not dim at all.

-Dave


-- Original message -- 
From: Jeffrey Pawlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Regarding the VFD display, although they may be very different one 
> manufacturer 
> to another, I can definitely dispute a prior statement made that VFDs in 
> general 
> have a short lifetime and become dim. They are universally used in VCRs, DVD 
> players, microwave ovens, and some clocks. I have never had one become dim or 
> burn out. The displays in my appliances are on even when the rest of the 
> appliance is off. I have never seen one become dim even after 15 years of 
> on-time. 
> 
> I look forward to your project. 
> 
> 
> 73, 
> 
> Jeffrey Pawlan, WA6KBL 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 113BR manual scanned

[d . seiter]

I have a 103AR I got about a year ago which doesn't oscillate.  I got the 
manual scans from someone "out there", so it has been done, but is not widely 
available.  Mine is a series of separate files, so a unified file might be 
useful to others in the future.

-Dave
 -- Original message --
From: David Forbes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Another one from the old 36 foot NRAO telescope files - the HP 113BR 
> analog clock unit.
> http://www.nixiebunny.com/hp113br.pdf
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> Does anyone think Agilent is interested in a manual for something 
> this old, or is this more of an HP Archives sort of boatanchor?
> 
> I also have a 103AR manual to scan if anyone's interested in this 
> ancient stuff. Let me know.
> 
> -- 
> 
> --David Forbes, Tucson, AZ
> http://www.cathodecorner.com/
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Fw: HP 5334B rackmount ears

[d . seiter]

The ears I have should be the same as the one on the right side in the 
"hp2.jpg", except for the 1" spacing.

-Dave
-- Original message -- 
From: Stanley Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Correction my counter is a HP5334A not B sorry don't know if they are 
> different. 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message  
> From: Stanley Reynolds 
> To: time-nuts@febo.com 
> Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2008 12:27:15 PM 
> Subject: [time-nuts] Fw: HP 5334B rackmount ears 
> 
> My HP5334B tabs look like this with a 1 3/4 inch seperation for the case 
> holes 
> and the same for the rack mount. 
> http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/stanleyreynolds/hp1.jpg 
> 
> http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/stanleyreynolds/hp2.jpg 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5334B rackmount ears

[d . seiter]

Hi Scott-

I do have two that should work.  One is marked HP 3490, so if that one uses the 
same you should be fine.  The mounting holes (ear to counter) are 1" apart and 
are set back .5" from the front of the flange.  I'd send you a pix, but my 
camera is hiding somewhere.

-Dave
 -- Original message --
From: Scott Mace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Yes, it's a 2U.  I think it's option 908, option 909 or something.
> 
>   Scott
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I think I have some; what is the height?  2RU?
> > 
> > -Dave
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Scott Mace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > 
> >> Does anyone know where I can get a set of rackmount ears for the 5334B? 
> >> I need to rack this unit and take off the feet. 
> >>
> >> Scott 
> >>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5334B rackmount ears

[d . seiter]

I think I have some; what is the height?  2RU?

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: Scott Mace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Does anyone know where I can get a set of rackmount ears for the 5334B? 
> I need to rack this unit and take off the feet. 
> 
> Scott 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Valpey - VF154

[d . seiter]

Randy- 
Here's some minimal info:

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/VF154-datasheet.html

I don't have access to my databook collection at the moment, but given the date 
codes on those oscillators, they may be long obsolete.

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: Randy Leifer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Novice here. 
> I have a small electronics lab at home. 
> 
> PART 1: 
> I have these Valpey Fisher VF154 1 MHz oscillators. 
> I could not find any details at the VF website on this 
> particular model #. (OC, VC, ???) 
> Picture/link below 
> 
> PART 2: 
> Does anyone have a link to a simple circuit, where I 
> could use these to get a stand-alone signal @ around 1 
> or 2 volts? 
> This is just an educational value/exercise for me, I 
> don't really have an intended use (yet) for these. 
> I have some high-speed opamps and buffers? 
> 
> Thanks, 
> =Randy Leifer= 
> 
> 
> http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/Midiot/DSCN.jpg 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt EOL

[d . seiter]

While the mini-T is obviously not the same, the -E version many be nothing more 
than a RoHS compliant version of the original.  I've seen many changes to 
devices/assemblies in the past year or two, but when the smoke clears it's 
nothing but a RoHS-related change.  In fact, in many cases, there is no actual 
change in the device at all. It was always compliant but marketing wanted a 
*RoHS* part number.  

It's been driving me crazy...

-Dave
 -- Original message --
From: "Richard W. Solomon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> It seems the T-Bolt is being replaced with a newer version. I wonder
> which ones we will be getting ??
> 
> http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-383748/TBolt%20EOL.pdf 
> 
> 
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] HP Z3801A

[d . seiter]

Richard-

Schematics for the power supply/oven control board are available, but I've 
never seen anything else.  (and even those are not from HP)

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: "Richard W. Solomon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> I have one coming and am looking to collect some info on it. 
> 
> I Googled it and got quite a bit of info, but nowhere have I 
> found a Service Manual or its like. Anyone know where I can get 
> one ? 
> 
> Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Group Buy, part 1

[d . seiter]

My feelings exactly, I would have done the same except that (1) I already have 
a Tbolt, and I had so many messages, that I (2) started in the middle of the 
flood...

The original message should have been worded in such a way to avoid a massive 
reply.  At this price, I really had to convince myself that I *didn't* need 
another one!  ;-)

-Dave
 -- Original message --
From: Chuck Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Before you get all angry, consider how most people view the list:
> 
> IN LINEAR ORDER OF MESSAGES SENT!
> 
> They see TVB's message about a new supply of Thunderbolts, and quickly
> post a message saying: "me too!"
> 
> It isn't until it's too late that they see the message saying that there
> is no list, and don't bug the group (or TAPR) with requests for cheap GPSDO's.
> 
> The real problem is TVB shouldn't have made the announcement until
> TAPR was ready to deal with taking orders.  (Can you blame him for
> being excited?)
> 
> And, I don't think there is any cause for you to insult list members and
> call them cheapskates.  They just want in on what turned out to be a much
> better deal than was ever contemplated.  Remember the earlier deal was for
> several hundred dollars each.  The new price changes the calculus completely.
> 
> -Chuck Harris
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Hawkins wrote:
> > How about a firm statement that there is NO list being made of people
> > who are clamoring for a cheap Thunderbolt. As long as the possibility
> > exists that there is a list, people will keep ignoring John.
> > 
> > Me, I invested $600 in Lucent boxes and have no return on them. I'll
> > not throw good money after bad.
> > 
> > Meanwhile, we get the names of the cheapskates . . .
> > 
> > Bill Hawkins
> > 
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:54 PM
> > To: time-nuts@febo.com
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt Group Buy, part 1
> > 
> > Hi John,
> >  
> > people are not getting it, and keep sending-in requests to this  list...
> >  
> > Is there any possibility to set up a mail alias that can get all these
> > requests, and keep the noise off of this list as well?
> >  
> > thanks,
> > Said
> >  
> >  
> > In a message dated 5/6/2008 09:57:55 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
> > PROTECTED]
> > writes:
> > 
> > As I  said below -- we will first send ordering information to those who
> > were on  the pre-order list last year, and then will announce how others
> > may  order.  Please stay tuned, but also please don't clog up the TAPR
> > inbox!
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> > 
> 
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[time-nuts] Low profile coax connector?

[d . seiter]

After digging through boxes tonight, I found a few leftover bits from when I 
did some work for Trimble, in particular a couple of antennas from their early 
handheld units that I'll like to try out with a Jupiter board.

I thought the connector was a Hirose H.FL (3mm tall) male, but I found some 
samples of those in the box and the grounding ring of the female is the same 
diameter as the H.FL male.  Close, but no cigar as they say.  

It's also close to the Tyco OSMT/SSMT series, but the body has a corner bevel 
instead of the Tyco side bevel.

Anyone know what the connector is?  If not, I may just replace it with the H.FL 
or something a little larger.

Thanks,

-Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] Favorite DC power Supply?

[d . seiter]

I have a Kikusui PAR80A that I've become attached to.  0-80Vdc @1A, 0-8Vdc @10A 
with 1mA resolution in a small but heavy box. Single output, but I have other 
PSs if I need more.

What would one use 5Vdc @ 100A supplies for these days?  I found 2 HP units in 
the garage last weekend.

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Hi Everyone 
> 
> I have been using a power supply from an old computer for my bench set 
> up. I am finally going to break down and purchase a proper variable 
> power supply. One channel ought to do for me and I don't need a 
> programmable one. 
> 
> Does anyone have a recommendation for a supply under $600 U.S? Any 
> garbage ones to avoid? 
> 
> Thanks in advance-Patrick 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] GSyncQ GPS Evalution Kits && NTPns

[d . seiter]

Deutsch is a company name, not a standard of any kind:

http://www.deutschipd.com/

I have a connector catalog from them circa '98, but I know I have never used 
them or even seen them in use.

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: "Pekka Niemelä" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Hi Bruce, thanks for bearing with me. :) 
> 
> On 4/25/08, Bruce Griffiths wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > Pekka 
> > 
> > If you want, you can easily construct your own external RS422 to RS232 
> > transceiver. 
> > Just use a Max 232 to convert the RS232 signals to TTL/CMOS and connect 
> > RS422 receiver and transmitter chips to that. 
> > RS 485 transceivers chips can also be used instead of RS422 transmitters 
> > and receivers, just connect them as drivers or receivers as required. 
> > If you need a circuit schematic I can send you one. 
> 
> 
> Hmm, if you would have schematics that would be really great. Can I download 
> them from somewhere? I'm not 100% that I understand what you're saying, but 
> I guess the schematics talk more than thousand words. :) 
> 
> The other option is ofcourse to just buy the transciever. But even in that 
> case I would need to drop the voltage with the max 232? That is, the 1PPS 
> signal that we drive into the Soekris? 
> 
> 
> Novatel also use Deutsch connectors on some of their enclosures. 
> 
> 
> Hmm, so it's an industry standard? Wikipedia doesn't know anything about it. 
> Strange. 
> 
> warm regards, 
> P. Niemelä 
> 
> 
> Bruce 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___ 
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Re: [time-nuts] 58532a ANTENNA CABLE?

[d . seiter]

Hi Jeff-

I have only used SatStat with my Z3801A, and it did take a while to get it set 
up right under XP.  I much prefer Tboltmon for the Thunderbolt.  Now that both 
are functional, I can start playing with them.

I found that the Z3801A with the std HP antenna and recommended cable didn't 
work very well with the antenna in the garage (no plywood, 1x6s and 3 layers of 
asphalt shingles), it took forever to acquire sats and would lose the lock at 
the drop of a hat.  It had to go out in the weather to be stable.  On the other 
hand, the Thunderbolt antenna is in the corner of the garage, tilted at an 
angle, with hanging bicycles on one side and 19" racks on another, and is happy 
as a clam.  

Are clams happy?  I've always wondered about that saying...

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: "jshank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> There appears to be three software-monitoring programs available, GPSCon 
> Pro, GPS Control & SatStat. I was just curious about what the group thinks 
> of these three programs or if there are any other available. 
> 
> 
> 
> The Z3801A manual suggest rg-213 of lmr-400. I have neither on hand but am 
> not apposed to purchasing either. 
> 
> I do have rg58/u and coax CATV cable on hand but the problem is that it is a 
> difficult process to run the cable from my basement lab to the second floor 
> attic and I only o want to do it once. Originally, I was going to penetrate 
> the roof at the ridgeline and install the antenna on a one foot but I 
> understand it is possible to receive singles from under the plywood/asphalt 
> shingle roof. Is it worth a penetration of the roof? 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff 
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[time-nuts] Z3801A up and running!

[d . seiter]

First of all, many thanks to those who gave help, hints, ideas, and schematics 
(!) over the past eight months; all was appreciated!

The story:  I was building a master power/timing module for my rack system, 
including a Z3801A in a snazzy pull-out configuration with a dist. amp.  All 
was great until I did the final power on test...  The Z3801A was dead and the 
external PS shut itself down for ~4 minutes every time I tried to power it up.  
I had forgotten that the unit was designed for a *positive ground* 
environment... oops!

After a few half hearted attempts to get it going, I gave up for a while to 
work on other projects.  Later, knowing I had to "thin out the herd"  I asked 
for and got the schematics for the PS board.  While not 100% accurate, they 
were good enough.  The incorrect grounding had blown out Q3 and CR4.  I took a 
long time to track it down because it was hard to isolate portions of the 
circuit, and I didn't want to cut any traces.  Deciding I didn't need the input 
voltage envelope circuit anyway, I just bypassed Q2, reassembled everything, 
and it's now purring along.  Not having much luck acquiring sats, but it's 
locked on to a few, not bad considering the antenna is indoors, leaning against 
a book case.  This weekend, I'll give it a real test on the roof.

One last thing; this was the first pcb I've really had soldering issues with.  
Sometimes it just wouldn't melt unless I used the big weller gun, sometimes the 
clearance in the holes was so tight that I had to pull parts through even when 
the solder was totally melted.  The pcb laughed at both my solder-suckers.  I 
even ended up making a tip to heat all 3 terminals of a TO-220 at once.  That 
worked, but the  2" wide tip for the DC/DC conv. didn't

Thanks again to all,

-Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana 1992 switches

[d . seiter]

Are these switches the same as the ones in the 1996?  Mine works perfectly now, 
but if the switches are a ticking time bomb, I'm going to move it to a area 
with better temperature control, and start looking for a donor unit just in 
case.

-Dave

-- Original message -- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Had the same trouble!!! bought a junk racal unit (they have several models) 
> for 
> $10 & stole the switches from it!!! Sad way to send a unit to the scrap 
> BIN!!! 
> 
> The unit is EXCELLENT & well worth the repair effort 
> 
> Norm 
> 
> 
>  David McGaw wrote: 
> > Does anyone know of a source of push-button switches for the 
> > Racal-Dana 1992? I have one that over half are bad. No luck from 
> > Racal-Dana or their service house. 
> > 
> > Thanks, 
> > 
> > David 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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[time-nuts] Z3801A schematics?

[d . seiter]

Are any schematics available, especially for the power supply board?

-Dave

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