Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[John Ackermann N8UR]

The .INF file seems just to be a text description, and the non-versioned 
.ext/.zip/.run file  file is a link to the file one with the version number.  
So either one will get you the same installer, and the .INF file isn't needed.

Sent from BlueMail ​

On Jan 21, 2017, 9:45 PM, at 9:45 PM, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
 wrote:
>I downloaded the following:
>
>eagle-win64.exe
>eagle-win64-7.7.0.exe
>eagle-win64-7.7.0.exe.INF
>
>What is the difference between these files in terms of installing this 
>version?  Which file do I run?  Do I need the other ones to go along
>with it?
>
>(Similarly, for LINUX, there is the same set of files, except
>substitute "run" for "exe")
>
>Rick N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

I downloaded the following:

eagle-win64.exe
eagle-win64-7.7.0.exe
eagle-win64-7.7.0.exe.INF

What is the difference between these files in terms of installing this 
version?  Which file do I run?  Do I need the other ones to go along

with it?

(Similarly, for LINUX, there is the same set of files, except
substitute "run" for "exe")

Rick N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[EB4APL]

Graham,

Thank you for your tip.

Regards,

Ignacio, EB4APL


El 21/01/2017 a las 17:26, Graham / KE9H escribió:

Your existing Eagle license should allow you to run your existing version
indefinitely.
I think it would be useful for a few years or so.

I also think your existing license also allows you to run one copy on Mac,
Linux or Windows.
So, if you are on Windows 7 and think you might want to migrate to Linux or
Mac,
go download a copy of the other installers NOW.

They have pulled down the Version 7.7 and all earlier version archive
access on the main
Eagle and AutoCad site, but the cadsoft ftp server is still up and
serving.  I don't expect
AutoCad to allow that to happen for much longer.

ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/ 
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/7.7/

Running real slow, (overloaded?) so be patient.

The biggest issue with migrating to KiCad for me is walking away from ten
years of
"trusted" parts footprints.  Hopefully an Eagle to KiCad footprint
translator would
become available.

I don't do enough hobby and incidental work to justify the $500 per year
that it would
take to replace my previous $125 every three years or so "Non-profit"
license.

--- Graham

==



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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Graham / KE9H]

Your existing Eagle license should allow you to run your existing version
indefinitely.
I think it would be useful for a few years or so.

I also think your existing license also allows you to run one copy on Mac,
Linux or Windows.
So, if you are on Windows 7 and think you might want to migrate to Linux or
Mac,
go download a copy of the other installers NOW.

They have pulled down the Version 7.7 and all earlier version archive
access on the main
Eagle and AutoCad site, but the cadsoft ftp server is still up and
serving.  I don't expect
AutoCad to allow that to happen for much longer.

ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/ 
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/7.7/

Running real slow, (overloaded?) so be patient.

The biggest issue with migrating to KiCad for me is walking away from ten
years of
"trusted" parts footprints.  Hopefully an Eagle to KiCad footprint
translator would
become available.

I don't do enough hobby and incidental work to justify the $500 per year
that it would
take to replace my previous $125 every three years or so "Non-profit"
license.

--- Graham

==

On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 8:43 AM, paul swed  wrote:

> What can I add to this thats not been said.
> This is how software is moving and it did start with Autodesk who sacked
> there original license model for the subscription approach and is making a
> ton of money that way. Its annuity. A gift that keeps on giving. Meanwhile
> they add bloat-ware for the sake of trying to appear to add some value
> I can go on but as all of you have observed it is what it is. Sitting back
> and griping will not change it. Its a major corporate direction change
> especially if a company was acquired. Its really not going to change. When
> a company is acquired what ever had been stated positions no longer matter.
> Its not the same company any longer, just the same name.
> So exploring alternates as you are all doing is great and helpful.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off"
> > > their less desirable customers.
> > >
> > > I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she
> > > deals with.  She said she would move "all her money out of the bank"
> > > all $5,000 of it.I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank
> > > wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced.   Small
> > > customers with $5K deposits are not profitable.So Autodesk is
> > > selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport.
> >
> > The last time they played this game they found that reducing the
> > subscriber base 1000:1
> > at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year.  That’s why I
> > suggest that people
> > wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not
> > have what it takes
> > to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block
> > of licenses at the Fortune
> > 500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the
> > small, price sensitive guys. Each
> > time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a
> > disaster because of that.
> >
> > The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s
> > really all about how much money they
> > bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per
> > feature basis rather
> > than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge
> > what they can as long as
> > people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > >
> > > Apple has a neat business model too.   They have like about 18% of the
> > > world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit.  What
> > > they do is take the one in five most profitable customers.
> > >
> > > Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most
> > > rich customers and let the others go elsewhere.
> > >
> > > In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market.
> > >
> > > Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and
> > > case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is
> > > geographically distributed.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> > >> Hi
> > >>
> > >> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of
> > what just came out
> > >> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that.
> > What they are doing
> > >> is exactly what they said they would not do.
> > >>
> > >> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to
> > have designs above
> > >> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those
> > layers. That puts me
> > >> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a
> > perpetual license
> > >> that I paid <

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Bob Camp]

Hi

The interesting point about “who said what” is that Autodesk people stated
*after* the acquisition that the Eagle  license model would not change … 
That’s one of the reasons I’d like to wait a bit and see what those same 
people say now.

Bob

> On Jan 21, 2017, at 9:43 AM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> What can I add to this thats not been said.
> This is how software is moving and it did start with Autodesk who sacked
> there original license model for the subscription approach and is making a
> ton of money that way. Its annuity. A gift that keeps on giving. Meanwhile
> they add bloat-ware for the sake of trying to appear to add some value
> I can go on but as all of you have observed it is what it is. Sitting back
> and griping will not change it. Its a major corporate direction change
> especially if a company was acquired. Its really not going to change. When
> a company is acquired what ever had been stated positions no longer matter.
> Its not the same company any longer, just the same name.
> So exploring alternates as you are all doing is great and helpful.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off"
>>> their less desirable customers.
>>> 
>>> I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she
>>> deals with.  She said she would move "all her money out of the bank"
>>> all $5,000 of it.I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank
>>> wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced.   Small
>>> customers with $5K deposits are not profitable.So Autodesk is
>>> selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport.
>> 
>> The last time they played this game they found that reducing the
>> subscriber base 1000:1
>> at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year.  That’s why I
>> suggest that people
>> wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not
>> have what it takes
>> to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block
>> of licenses at the Fortune
>> 500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the
>> small, price sensitive guys. Each
>> time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a
>> disaster because of that.
>> 
>> The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s
>> really all about how much money they
>> bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per
>> feature basis rather
>> than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge
>> what they can as long as
>> people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> 
>>> Apple has a neat business model too.   They have like about 18% of the
>>> world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit.  What
>>> they do is take the one in five most profitable customers.
>>> 
>>> Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most
>>> rich customers and let the others go elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market.
>>> 
>>> Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and
>>> case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is
>>> geographically distributed.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
 Hi
 
 I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of
>> what just came out
 is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that.
>> What they are doing
 is exactly what they said they would not do.
 
 It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to
>> have designs above
 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those
>> layers. That puts me
 squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a
>> perpetual license
 that I paid < 1/2 that for.
 
 It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license
>> “categories” have vanished.
 The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do.
>> That’s about the only
 one that is rational at this point.
 
 So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would
>> suggest is to
 take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody
>> else that has
 a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have
>> a major disconnect
 between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for
>> them to do. Part of that
 could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no
>> hurry to switch
 packages.
 
 Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle.
>> This week (month .. year)
 it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and
>> Eagle pay?
 That’s not at all clear.

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[paul swed]

What can I add to this thats not been said.
This is how software is moving and it did start with Autodesk who sacked
there original license model for the subscription approach and is making a
ton of money that way. Its annuity. A gift that keeps on giving. Meanwhile
they add bloat-ware for the sake of trying to appear to add some value
I can go on but as all of you have observed it is what it is. Sitting back
and griping will not change it. Its a major corporate direction change
especially if a company was acquired. Its really not going to change. When
a company is acquired what ever had been stated positions no longer matter.
Its not the same company any longer, just the same name.
So exploring alternates as you are all doing is great and helpful.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
>
> > On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> >
> > It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off"
> > their less desirable customers.
> >
> > I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she
> > deals with.  She said she would move "all her money out of the bank"
> > all $5,000 of it.I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank
> > wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced.   Small
> > customers with $5K deposits are not profitable.So Autodesk is
> > selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport.
>
> The last time they played this game they found that reducing the
> subscriber base 1000:1
> at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year.  That’s why I
> suggest that people
> wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not
> have what it takes
> to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block
> of licenses at the Fortune
> 500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the
> small, price sensitive guys. Each
> time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a
> disaster because of that.
>
> The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s
> really all about how much money they
> bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per
> feature basis rather
> than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge
> what they can as long as
> people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust.
>
> Bob
>
> >
> > Apple has a neat business model too.   They have like about 18% of the
> > world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit.  What
> > they do is take the one in five most profitable customers.
> >
> > Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most
> > rich customers and let the others go elsewhere.
> >
> > In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market.
> >
> > Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and
> > case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is
> > geographically distributed.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of
> what just came out
> >> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that.
> What they are doing
> >> is exactly what they said they would not do.
> >>
> >> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to
> have designs above
> >> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those
> layers. That puts me
> >> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a
> perpetual license
> >> that I paid < 1/2 that for.
> >>
> >> It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license
> “categories” have vanished.
> >> The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do.
> That’s about the only
> >> one that is rational at this point.
> >>
> >> So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would
> suggest is to
> >> take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody
> else that has
> >> a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have
> a major disconnect
> >> between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for
> them to do. Part of that
> >> could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no
> hurry to switch
> >> packages.
> >>
> >> Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle.
> This week (month .. year)
> >> it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and
> Eagle pay?
> >> That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some
> updates. Both
> >> have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that
> has to get paid
> >> for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying
> $500 a year
> >> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may
> abandon the whole
> >> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Fusion 360 has the same sort of “slurp it up” and “net connection” 
requirements. Anything 
you do is (at least potentially) not exclusively yours. Fine for a basement. As 
you point out
a bit nuts for any corporation. My guess is that there is or will be some sort 
of corporate server
connection to take care of the issue. At leas in Fusion, there is no obvious 
way to make that
happen. It’s a complicated program so who knows what may be lurking in there 
somewhere ….

Bob

> On Jan 20, 2017, at 9:45 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
> 
> I'd say 80% of the outside design work I do have little ditties in the 
> contracts that say NO development to be done on net connected systems.  New 
> Eagle requires a net connection to keep working.  Also the EULA seems to say 
> they can slurp your designs at will and ship them off to who knows who/where. 
>   Autocad seems to be totally un-aware of the rabid IP protection that 
> companies require these days.
> 
> I don't know how many sales Eagle has made off my recommendations / work (I 
> suspect quite a few)...  but that revenue is going to stop.
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[time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Mark Sims]

I'd say 80% of the outside design work I do have little ditties in the 
contracts that say NO development to be done on net connected systems.  New 
Eagle requires a net connection to keep working.  Also the EULA seems to say 
they can slurp your designs at will and ship them off to who knows who/where.   
Autocad seems to be totally un-aware of the rabid IP protection that companies 
require these days.

I don't know how many sales Eagle has made off my recommendations / work (I 
suspect quite a few)...  but that revenue is going to stop.
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Bob Camp]

Hi


> On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off"
> their less desirable customers.
> 
> I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she
> deals with.  She said she would move "all her money out of the bank"
> all $5,000 of it.I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank
> wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced.   Small
> customers with $5K deposits are not profitable.So Autodesk is
> selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport.

The last time they played this game they found that reducing the subscriber 
base 1000:1 
at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year.  That’s why I suggest 
that people 
wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not have 
what it takes
to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block of 
licenses at the Fortune
500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the small, 
price sensitive guys. Each
time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a disaster 
because of that. 

The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s really all 
about how much money they 
bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per feature 
basis rather
than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge what 
they can as long as 
people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust. 

Bob

> 
> Apple has a neat business model too.   They have like about 18% of the
> world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit.  What
> they do is take the one in five most profitable customers.
> 
> Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most
> rich customers and let the others go elsewhere.
> 
> In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market.
> 
> Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and
> case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is
> geographically distributed.
> 
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what 
>> just came out
>> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What 
>> they are doing
>> is exactly what they said they would not do.
>> 
>> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have 
>> designs above
>> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those layers. 
>> That puts me
>> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a 
>> perpetual license
>> that I paid < 1/2 that for.
>> 
>> It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” 
>> have vanished.
>> The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s 
>> about the only
>> one that is rational at this point.
>> 
>> So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would 
>> suggest is to
>> take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else 
>> that has
>> a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a 
>> major disconnect
>> between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them 
>> to do. Part of that
>> could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry 
>> to switch
>> packages.
>> 
>> Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle. This 
>> week (month .. year)
>> it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle 
>> pay?
>> That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some 
>> updates. Both
>> have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to 
>> get paid
>> for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a 
>> year
>> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the 
>> whole
>> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
>>> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
>>> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
>>> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
>>> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
>>> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
>>> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
>>> 
>>> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
>>> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
>>> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
>>> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
>>> 
>>> Comments?
>>> 
>>> Rick N6RK
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts ma

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[djl]

bought any prescription drugs lately?

On 2017-01-20 09:58, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of
what just came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that.
What they are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do.

It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to
have designs above
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those
layers. That puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a
perpetual license
that I paid < 1/2 that for.

It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license
“categories” have vanished.
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do.
That’s about the only
one that is rational at this point.

So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would
suggest is to
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody
else that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have
a major disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for
them to do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no
hurry to switch
packages.

Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle.
This week (month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and
Eagle pay?
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some
updates. Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that
has to get paid
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying 
$500 a year

is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may
abandon the whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.

Bob


On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
 wrote:


Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).

Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future.  There is strength in numbers.

Comments?

Rick N6RK
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VOX: 406-626-4304

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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Bryan _]

Not a bad mini-review on Kicad (3 parts), explores some of the good and bad.


https://hackaday.com/2016/11/17/creating-a-pcb-in-everything-kicad-part-1/



-=Bryan=-



From: time-nuts  on behalf of Peter Reilley 

Sent: January 20, 2017 10:45 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

Might I suggest KiCAD?   It is free and open source.   It is developed
by CERN (https://home.cern/) and

a community of developers.   There are no size limits and it does
everything that Eagle does.   Available for
Windows and Linux.   CERN uses it in-house and they do a lot of unusual
projects as you might imagine.
http://kicad-pcb.org/


I had used Eagle and liked it but have moved over to KiCAD after the
buy-out.

Pete.

On 1/20/2017 11:58 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what 
> just came out
> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they 
> are doing
> is exactly what they said they would not do.
>
> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have 
> designs above
> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those layers. 
> That puts me
> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a 
> perpetual license
> that I paid < 1/2 that for.
>
> It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” 
> have vanished.
> The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s 
> about the only
> one that is rational at this point.
>
> So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would 
> suggest is to
> take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else 
> that has
> a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a 
> major disconnect
> between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them 
> to do. Part of that
> could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry 
> to switch
> packages.
>
> Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle. This 
> week (month .. year)
> it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle 
> pay?
> That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. 
> Both
> have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to 
> get paid
> for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a 
> year
> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the 
> whole
> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
>
> Bob
>
>
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
>> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
>> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
>> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
>> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
>> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
>> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
>>
>> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
>> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
>> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
>> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Rick N6RK
>> ___
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> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Peter Reilley]

Might I suggest KiCAD?   It is free and open source.   It is developed 
by CERN (https://home.cern/) and
a community of developers.   There are no size limits and it does 
everything that Eagle does.   Available for
Windows and Linux.   CERN uses it in-house and they do a lot of unusual 
projects as you might imagine.

http://kicad-pcb.org/

I had used Eagle and liked it but have moved over to KiCAD after the 
buy-out.


Pete.

On 1/20/2017 11:58 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what just 
came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they 
are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do.

It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have 
designs above
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those layers. That 
puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a perpetual 
license
that I paid < 1/2 that for.

It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” have 
vanished.
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s 
about the only
one that is rational at this point.

So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would suggest 
is to
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else 
that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a major 
disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them to 
do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry to 
switch
packages.

Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle. This week 
(month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle 
pay?
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. 
Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to get 
paid
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the 
whole
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.

Bob



On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist  
wrote:

Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).

Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future.  There is strength in numbers.

Comments?

Rick N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Chris Albertson]

It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off"
their less desirable customers.

I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she
deals with.  She said she would move "all her money out of the bank"
all $5,000 of it.I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank
wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced.   Small
customers with $5K deposits are not profitable.So Autodesk is
selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport.

Apple has a neat business model too.   They have like about 18% of the
world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit.  What
they do is take the one in five most profitable customers.

Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most
rich customers and let the others go elsewhere.

In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market.

Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and
case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is
geographically distributed.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> Hi
>
> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what 
> just came out
> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they 
> are doing
> is exactly what they said they would not do.
>
> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have 
> designs above
> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those layers. 
> That puts me
> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a 
> perpetual license
> that I paid < 1/2 that for.
>
> It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” 
> have vanished.
> The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s 
> about the only
> one that is rational at this point.
>
> So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would 
> suggest is to
> take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else 
> that has
> a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a 
> major disconnect
> between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them 
> to do. Part of that
> could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry 
> to switch
> packages.
>
> Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle. This 
> week (month .. year)
> it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle 
> pay?
> That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. 
> Both
> have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to 
> get paid
> for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a 
> year
> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the 
> whole
> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
>
> Bob
>
>
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
>> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
>> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
>> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
>> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
>> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
>> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
>>
>> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
>> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
>> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
>> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Rick N6RK
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Chris Albertson]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> Hi
> It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year
> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the 
> whole
> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.

THere was a time when Autodesk's "AutoCad" was the most pirated
software in the world.   It is still up near the top of that list and
Autodesk finally cam around and saw this as a Good Thing.   It made
their product a standard and they saw that those pirated copies were
not lost sales. Anyone who needed it for real work paid.  I think
they like this model and are doing it with Fustion.


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of what just 
came out
is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that. What they 
are doing
is exactly what they said they would not do. 

It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to have 
designs above 
160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those layers. That 
puts me
squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a perpetual 
license 
that I paid < 1/2 that for. 

It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license “categories” have 
vanished. 
The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do. That’s 
about the only
one that is rational at this point. 

So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would suggest 
is to 
take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody else 
that has
a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have a major 
disconnect
between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for them to 
do. Part of that
could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no hurry to 
switch
packages. 

Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle. This week 
(month .. year)
it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and Eagle 
pay? 
That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some updates. 
Both
have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that has to get 
paid 
for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying $500 a year 
is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may abandon the 
whole 
basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.

Bob


> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
>  wrote:
> 
> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
> 
> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Rick N6RK
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Didier Juges]

I use Copper Connection, a $50 package (PWB layout only) that works very
well for me.
There is a free eval version that has some limitations.

Didier KO4BB


On Jan 19, 2017 11:01 PM, "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
wrote:

> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
>
> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
>
> Comments?
>
> Rick N6RK
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Javier Serrano]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:

>
> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
>
>
Disclaimer: the section I lead at CERN has been contributing to KiCad
development [1] since 2011. Our main driver is to facilitate sharing and
collaboration [2] in the domain of Open Source Hardware. As others have
said, there is quite some momentum behind KiCad these days. If you want to
give it a quick try, I think Chris Gammell's simple "Getting to blinky"
tutorial [3] is a very good place to start. Chris also runs a very lively
forum where people can ask questions [4]. KiCad does have its quirks [5]
like all other EDA tools, but it's progressing quickly and the developers
are quite receptive to constructive criticism. We want to take KiCad beyond
the hobbyist realm, and we are especially interested in feedback from
people in the designers-we-admire category like you.

Cheers,

Javier

[1] http://www.ohwr.org/projects/cern-kicad/wiki
[2] https://giving.web.cern.ch/content/kicad-development-1
[3] https://contextualelectronics.com/learning/getting-to-blinky-4-0/
[4] https://forum.kicad.info/
[5] See e.g. the list we keep at
http://www.ohwr.org/projects/cern-kicad/wiki/UI_improvements
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message , "Richard (Rick
) Karlquist" writes:

>Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?

KiCad!

Open source, and actively maintained and developed by CERN.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Francesco Messineo]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist
 wrote:
> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
>
> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?

I'm using KiCad since a few years. There're conversion tools from the
eagle libraries to obtain
both schematic libs and footprints to be used on KiCad. There're also
quite a few native libraries. Overall I would never look for anything
else. But I'm not a professional user, so my time is kind of free.

73
Frank IZ8DWF
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Chris Albertson]

Right on their main page is a FREE download link.  Eagle has always
had a free version and a paid version.   The free version is limited
to 2 schematic sheets, 2 signal layers, and 80 cm2 board area.  I
think this might be very slightly better then in the past.

The good news for users is that now there is a billion dollar company
behind Eagle.   If they run Eagle anything like they do Fusion 360, be
prepared for a continuous flood of updates and new features.

One of the new features they are talking about is integration from
Fusion so you can make the entire product in one CAD system,  At the
holy level this might be a PCB with a custom 3D printed housing so the
buttons on the PCB match up with holes on the housing.  Fusion is
parametric so when an outline changes on a part on a PCB the housing
hole can move if its location was defined as "centered over that
part".

Eagle has seen very slow progress in the past, I expect the feature
set and ease of use and training materials to take off now that a big
company is tossing lots of money at it.



On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist
 wrote:
> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
>
> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
>
> Comments?
>
> Rick N6RK
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Chris Albertson]

Typo:  At the HOBBY level.

Professionally they make things like cell phones and set top boxes and
AV Receivers where now days the case the PCB need to be integrated and
have an ability to 3D print a prototype then send the same CAD file to
production.  That is their goal.There is talk over on the
Fusion360 blog about long term goals

Another one for Eagle is collaboration.  That is where a group of
designers all work on the product, basically from home and when they
are done, al the parts fit

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:28 PM, Chris Albertson
 wrote:
> Right on their main page is a FREE download link.  Eagle has always
> had a free version and a paid version.   The free version is limited
> to 2 schematic sheets, 2 signal layers, and 80 cm2 board area.  I
> think this might be very slightly better then in the past.
>
> The good news for users is that now there is a billion dollar company
> behind Eagle.   If they run Eagle anything like they do Fusion 360, be
> prepared for a continuous flood of updates and new features.
>
> One of the new features they are talking about is integration from
> Fusion so you can make the entire product in one CAD system,  At the
> holy level this might be a PCB with a custom 3D printed housing so the
> buttons on the PCB match up with holes on the housing.  Fusion is
> parametric so when an outline changes on a part on a PCB the housing
> hole can move if its location was defined as "centered over that
> part".
>
> Eagle has seen very slow progress in the past, I expect the feature
> set and ease of use and training materials to take off now that a big
> company is tossing lots of money at it.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist
>  wrote:
>> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
>> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
>> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
>> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
>> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
>> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
>> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
>>
>> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
>> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
>> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
>> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Rick N6RK
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[ziggy9+time-nuts]

Another one to look at is DipTrace. The free version is 300 pins and 2 signal 
layers, non-profit use. 

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
>  wrote:
> 
> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
> 
> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Rick N6RK
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Bob Stewart]

I used KICAD for my GPSDO.  I've never used Eagle, so I don't know what 
differences there are.  I had used ExpressPCB, so it did take some getting used 
to.  Even at my early entry-level stage, a number of components supplied with 
the program were unusable.  This was mainly due to the size of the component on 
a schematic being much too large.  IIRC, a couple of supplied footprints 
weren't acceptable, either; though I can't remember which ones.  And, of 
course, it didn't have the PIC I was using either on the schematic or the 
footprint for the board, as well as a couple of other smaller components.  But, 
I've got a usable library built now, and it's easy enough to add stuff as 
needed.
I've only used it for 2-layer boards so far: some complex, and some trivial.  I 
don't think the microwave trace stuff is in a completed state, yet.  There is 
no auto-routing of the board.  There were some licensing issues with the one 
they were using, and it was disabled and disappeared.  But, you get used to 
picking and placing and adjusting after you've done it for awhile.  It does 
make Gerber files that are accepted by OSHPark; who I use to make my boards.
The schematic section has the ability to use hierarchical layers.  There is a 
3D viewer for the routed board.  I usually use that, as well as using the 
OSHPark pictures for final inspection before ordering.

And, the price is right.

HTH,

Bob
 -
AE6RV.com

GFS GPSDO list:
groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GFS-GPSDOs/info

  From: Tom Curlee 
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 11:32 PM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year
   
KiCad is an open source pcd cad package that looks interesting.  Has some 
microwave/RF features, 8 layers (I think),  both schematic capture and layout.  
Just started to look at it.  Doesn't have the libraries that Eagle does, but 
you can create your own.  Worth looking at.
Considering how Autodesk works (pay ), I'm surprised that their Fusion 360 
3D cad package is free for hobbyists.  I use Solidworks at work, but definitely 
not going to pay $6K for home use.  Just starting to learn Fusion 360, and, at 
least at my level, it seems to have all the functionality of Solidworks.  My 
only beef is that it's cloud based, but it will work off line for a few weeks 
before needing to call home.  My fear is that some time in the future Autodesk 
will either discontinue the program or start wanting $$.  Again, well worth 
looking at.
Tom, WB6UZZ


      From: Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 7:52 PM
 Subject: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year
  
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).

Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future.  There is strength in numbers.

Comments?

Rick N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Hal Murray]

> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?

kikad
  http://kicad-pcb.org/

I haven't done any serious work with it.  When I looked 5 or 10 years ago, it 
was good enough to make some very nice big, complicated boards.  (I don't 
know how much effort went into them.)

It had a steep enough learning curve that I didn't get very far off the 
ground but so does everything else in this area.  I didn't see any show 
stoppers.


-- 
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Nick Sayer via time-nuts]

I think the alternative with the greatest momentum at the moment is KiCAD.

I haven’t tried KiCAD yet. The problem I have is that I have a ton of libraries 
and projects I’d have to convert. I suspect that there is automation to perform 
the import (or soon will be), but it’s basically NRE that I’m not looking 
forward to. That doesn’t really change with whatever option I pick, other than 
sticking with EAGLE. I’m not yet 100% convinced Autodesk won’t reverse course 
on this, unless they really *do* want EAGLE to die the death of a thousand cuts.

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist  
> wrote:
> 
> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
> 
> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Rick N6RK
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Tom Curlee]

KiCad is an open source pcd cad package that looks interesting.  Has some 
microwave/RF features, 8 layers (I think),  both schematic capture and layout.  
Just started to look at it.  Doesn't have the libraries that Eagle does, but 
you can create your own.  Worth looking at.
Considering how Autodesk works (pay ), I'm surprised that their Fusion 360 
3D cad package is free for hobbyists.  I use Solidworks at work, but definitely 
not going to pay $6K for home use.  Just starting to learn Fusion 360, and, at 
least at my level, it seems to have all the functionality of Solidworks.  My 
only beef is that it's cloud based, but it will work off line for a few weeks 
before needing to call home.  My fear is that some time in the future Autodesk 
will either discontinue the program or start wanting $$.  Again, well worth 
looking at.
Tom, WB6UZZ


  From: Richard (Rick) Karlquist 
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement  
 Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 7:52 PM
 Subject: [time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year
   
Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).

Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future.  There is strength in numbers.

Comments?

Rick N6RK
___
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[time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).

Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
the future.  There is strength in numbers.

Comments?

Rick N6RK
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