Re: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News

[drnanjo]

I wonder if it is possibly a reflection of the priorities of our education 
system. 

I remember taking Geography in elementary school.

I don't remember having standardized testing on Geography.
But plenty on other subjects.

It it possible that this is one of the side effects of "teaching to the test"...

It wouldn't surprise me if Geography had been eliminated in most curriculums in 
favor of subjects more likely to command space on standardized tests.

Nancy Melucci
Long Beach City College
Long Beach CA


-Original Message-
From: Christopher Green 
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
Sent: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 9:11 pm
Subject: [tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - 
Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News



 


 


 


Time was that I would give history of psychology students a map test of 
European countries. On average, they got a little over 4 -- usually UK, France, 
Italy, and whatever country their ancestors came from. It got so depressing 
that I stopped. It seems I was expecting way too much. This sociology professor 
finds that her students can't even name continents. Sigh.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/01/14/nl-students-dont-know-geography-115.html



Chris




---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=






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[tips] Professor says students can't identify continents on map - Nfld. & Labrador - CBC News

[Christopher Green]

Time was that I would give history of psychology students a map test of 
European countries. On average, they got a little over 4 -- usually UK, France, 
Italy, and whatever country their ancestors came from. It got so depressing 
that I stopped. It seems I was expecting way too much. This sociology professor 
finds that her students can't even name continents. Sigh.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2013/01/14/nl-students-dont-know-geography-115.html


Chris
---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=


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Re: [tips] Physicians Aspirin Study

[michael sylvester]

What do you  make of the finding that enteric coated aspirin
may not be as effective as the uncoated variety.Something about enteric taking 
longer to release its ingredients.
I could see this as an artifact in medical testing and the importance of 
considering "interaction" of variables
before being conclusive of results.
michael
  - Original Message -i
  From: Wuensch, Karl L 
  To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:43 PM
  Subject: [tips] Physicians Aspirin Study














That study is great for illustrating how deceptive percentage of 
variance explained statistics can be.  They terminated this study prematurely 
because the early returns showed an effect so large (odds ratio of about 1.8) 
that it was deemed unethical to continue the study.  In terms of variance 
explained, the treatment accounted for about one tenth of one percent of the 
variance in MI.

   

  Cheers,



  From: John Kulig [mailto:ku...@mail.plymouth.edu] 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM
  To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
  Subject: Re: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

   

   Nice replies (Jim C, Karl W and Mike P and others ..) so I won't repeat what 
has been said except to note - as a tangent to the original posts - that in 
some of my classes I spend time with the "relative risk" Karl W discusses. I 
use the example of aspirin and MI (heart attack) in the 1988 (New England 
Journal of Med?? if I remember) article of 22,000+ physicians who took aspirin 
vs. placebo. My chi square calculated on their frequencies reveal p < .01, yet 
the risk of MI only drops from 1.7% to .9% in the sample over the years 
studied. As an absolute value, the % decrease is very small, but expressed as 
relative risk we can say we cut the risk in half. Of course, any "significant" 
decrease will be championed as the stakes are very high with MI .. and 
sometimes high with flu as well ..

  At any rate, I got MY flu shot! So I am OK. p < .05 :-)

  ==
  John W. Kulig, Ph.D.
  Professor of Psychology
  Coordinator, University Honors
  Plymouth State University 
  Plymouth NH 03264 
  ==

   



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Re: [tips] Physicians Aspirin Study

[Claudia Stanny]

Small numerical differences can sometimes have large practical
consequences.  If you multiply the small reduction in risk for an
individual time the population that will use the treatment, the societal
impact (numbers of heart attack avoided in the entire population in a given
year) can be quite large.

How many fewer people will die or have costly side effects of the flu if
80% of the population gets a shot that is 60% effective in preventing
contracting the flu?
_

Claudia J. Stanny, Ph.D.
Director
Center for University Teaching, Learning, and Assessment
Associate Professor
NSF UWF Faculty ADVANCE Scholar
School of Psychological and Behavioral Sciences
University of West Florida
11000 University Parkway
Pensacola, FL  32514 – 5751

Phone:   (850) 857-6355 (direct) or  473-7435 (CUTLA)

csta...@uwf.edu

CUTLA Web Site: http://uwf.edu/cutla/
Personal Web Pages: http://uwf.edu/cstanny/website/index.htm


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Wuensch, Karl L  wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>That study is great for illustrating how deceptive percentage
> of variance explained statistics can be.  They terminated this study
> prematurely because the early returns showed an effect so large (odds ratio
> of about 1.8) that it was deemed unethical to continue the study.  In terms
> of variance explained, the treatment accounted for about one tenth of one
> percent of the variance in MI.
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,
>
> [image: Karl L. Wuensch] 
>
> *From:* John Kulig [mailto:ku...@mail.plymouth.edu]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM
> *To:* Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
> *Subject:* Re: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance
>
> ** **
>
>  Nice replies (Jim C, Karl W and Mike P and others ..) so I won't repeat
> what has been said except to note - as a tangent to the original posts -
> that in some of my classes I spend time with the "relative risk" Karl W
> discusses. I use the example of aspirin and MI (heart attack) in the 1988
> (New England Journal of Med?? if I remember) article of 22,000+ physicians
> who took aspirin vs. placebo. My chi square calculated on their frequencies
> reveal p < .01, yet the risk of MI only drops from 1.7% to .9% in the
> sample over the years studied. As an absolute value, the % decrease is very
> small, but expressed as relative risk we can say we cut the risk in half.
> Of course, any "significant" decrease will be championed as the stakes are
> very high with MI .. and sometimes high with flu as well ..
>
> At any rate, I got MY flu shot! So I am OK. p < .05 :-)
>
> ==
> John W. Kulig, Ph.D.
> Professor of Psychology
> Coordinator, University Honors
> Plymouth State University
> Plymouth NH 03264
> ==
>
> ** **
>
> ---
>
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>
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>
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[tips] Physicians Aspirin Study

[Wuensch, Karl L]

  That study is great for illustrating how deceptive percentage of 
variance explained statistics can be.  They terminated this study prematurely 
because the early returns showed an effect so large (odds ratio of about 1.8) 
that it was deemed unethical to continue the study.  In terms of variance 
explained, the treatment accounted for about one tenth of one percent of the 
variance in MI.

Cheers,
[Karl L. Wuensch]
From: John Kulig [mailto:ku...@mail.plymouth.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:39 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance


 Nice replies (Jim C, Karl W and Mike P and others ..) so I won't repeat what 
has been said except to note - as a tangent to the original posts - that in 
some of my classes I spend time with the "relative risk" Karl W discusses. I 
use the example of aspirin and MI (heart attack) in the 1988 (New England 
Journal of Med?? if I remember) article of 22,000+ physicians who took aspirin 
vs. placebo. My chi square calculated on their frequencies reveal p < .01, yet 
the risk of MI only drops from 1.7% to .9% in the sample over the years 
studied. As an absolute value, the % decrease is very small, but expressed as 
relative risk we can say we cut the risk in half. Of course, any "significant" 
decrease will be championed as the stakes are very high with MI .. and 
sometimes high with flu as well ..

At any rate, I got MY flu shot! So I am OK. p < .05 :-)
==
John W. Kulig, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology
Coordinator, University Honors
Plymouth State University
Plymouth NH 03264
==


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[tips] Media Request on Dissertation/Thesis Work

[Bill Southerly]

The following is a forwarded message.  Please send all relevant responses
to the address listed in the note - Thanks.



Has a graduate student ever come to you, frantic or dejected at finding
that someone else already has published research that's the same or very
similar to the dissertation or thesis research he or she is working on? If
so‹or if the same thing happened to you as a graduate student‹would you be
willing to talk about your experience for an upcoming article in the APA¹s
gradPSYCH magazine? I¹m interested in hearing from academic psychologists
at U.S. schools. Please contact me, Rebecca Voelker, at rvo...@aol.com.
I¹m hoping to complete interviews by Monday, Jan. 21, by phone or email.
Many thanks!





Bill

Bill Southerly, PhD
Chair, Department of Psychology
Frostburg State University
Frostburg, MD  21532
bsouthe...@frostburg.edu
301-687-4389






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[tips] my crummy knowledge of stats

[Annette Taylor]

I know this is a basic question but here goes:

I have categorical data, 0,1 which stands for incorrect (0) or correct (1) on a 
test item.

I have 25 items and I have a pretest and a posttest and I want to know on which 
items students improved significantly, and not just by chance. Just eyeballing 
the data I can tell that there are some on which the improved quite a bit, some 
not at all and some are someplace in the middle and I can't make a guess at 
all. That is why we have statistics. Yeah!  hbleh.

As far as I know, the best thing to do is a chi-square test for each of 25 
items; but of course that will mean that with a .05 sig level I will have at 
least one false positive, maybe more, but most assuredly at least one. This 
seems to be a risk. At any rate I can use SPSS and the crosstabs command allow 
for calculation of the chi-square.

I know that when I do planned comparisons  with multiple t-tests, I can do a 
Simes' correction in which I can rank order my final, obtained alphas, and 
adjust for the number of comparisons and reject from the point from which the 
obtained alpha failed to exceed the corrected-for-number-of-comps alpha. But as 
far as I know, I cannot do that with 25 chi square tests. There is probably 
some reason why I can no more do that, that relates to the reason for why I 
cannot do 25 t-tests in this situation with categorical data.

Is there a better way to answer my research question? I need a major professor! 
Oh wait, that's me... drat! I need to hire a statistician. Oh wait, I'd need $$ 
for that and I don't have any. So I hope tipsters can stand in as a 
quasi-hired-statistician and help me out.

Oh, I get the digest. I don't mind waiting until tomorrow or the next day for a 
response, but a backchannel is fine. tay...@sandiego.edu

I will be at APS this year. Any other tipsters planning to be there? Let's have 
a party! I'd love to put personalities to names.

Thanks

Annette

Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D.
Professor, Psychological Sciences
University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park
San Diego, CA 92110
tay...@sandiego.edu
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Re: [tips] Thanks Canada!

[Claudia Stanny]

This is great.
Who says journalists need to spell now that we have spell-check in our word
processors?
  :-)

_

Claudia J. Stanny, Ph.D.
Director
Center for University Teaching, Learning, and Assessment
Associate Professor
NSF UWF Faculty ADVANCE Scholar
School of Psychological and Behavioral Sciences
University of West Florida
11000 University Parkway
Pensacola, FL  32514 – 5751

Phone:   (850) 857-6355 (direct) or  473-7435 (CUTLA)

csta...@uwf.edu

CUTLA Web Site: http://uwf.edu/cutla/
Personal Web Pages: http://uwf.edu/cstanny/website/index.htm


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Mike Palij  wrote:

> If you thought that you might have been carpet bombed with news about
> Lance Armstrong, Canadian news outlets reveals another shocking,
> unbelievable finding that will pull the rug out from beneath you!  See:
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/**gameon/2013/01/15/lance-**
> armstrong-used-rugs/1836985/
>
> ;-)
>
> -Mike Palij
> New York University
> m...@nyu.edu
>
>
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to tips as: csta...@uwf.edu.
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> or send a blank email to leave-23038-13144.**
> 1572ed60024e708cf21c4c6f19e7d5**5...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
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Re: [tips] Thanks Canada!

[drnanjo]

Ha ha thank you Mike...

Nancy M.

-Original Message-
From: Mike Palij 
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
Cc: Michael Palij 
Sent: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 2:49 pm
Subject: [tips] Thanks Canada!


If you thought that you might have been carpet bombed with news about
Lance Armstrong, Canadian news outlets reveals another shocking,
unbelievable finding that will pull the rug out from beneath you!  See:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/15/lance-armstrong-used-rugs/1836985/

;-)

-Mike Palij
New York University
m...@nyu.edu




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[tips] Thanks Canada!

[Mike Palij]

If you thought that you might have been carpet bombed with news about
Lance Armstrong, Canadian news outlets reveals another shocking,
unbelievable finding that will pull the rug out from beneath you!  See:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/01/15/lance-armstrong-used-rugs/1836985/

;-)

-Mike Palij
New York University
m...@nyu.edu




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RE: [tips] Funding based on graduation

[Bourgeois, Dr. Martin]

Not in Florida yet, but our beloved governor is trying to emulate the Texas 
model.


Martin Bourgeois
Professor and Chair
Social and Behavioral Sciences
Florida Gulf Coast University
Fort Myers, FL 33931



** Confidentiality Statement 

Florida has a very broad public records law.  As a result, any written 
communication created or received by Florida Gulf Coast University employees is 
subject to disclosure to the public and the media, upon request, unless 
otherwise exempt.  Under Florida law, e-mail addresses are public records.  If 
you do not want your email address released in response to a public records 
request, do not send electronic mail to this entity.  Instead, contact this 
office by phone or in writing.



From: Christopher Green [chri...@yorku.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:05 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation










In Texas (and Florida?) they are already measuring professors' "value" by 
adding the research grants brought in and the combined tuition of the students 
in that professor's classes, and then subtracting the salary. If you bring in a 
lot of grants and/or teach a lot of students, you're a "profit center." If you 
don't bring in grants and teach small classes, you're a "cost center." Out you 
go? Well, not yet, but it is coming.

Chris
---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=

On 2013-01-15, at 1:01 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wrote:

In the next iteration, faculty salaries are pro-rated in terms of how good the 
grades they award.

Karl W.
-Original Message-
From: Ken Steele [mailto:steel...@appstate.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:01 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation


Use of this rule is being discussed in the NC legislature.  I think the 
contingency is pretty simple:

Pass everybody -> increase in graduation rates -> more money.

I don't think it will take a long time for the school administrations to 
comprehend this relationship and act accordingly.

Ken


Kenneth M. Steele, Ph. D.
steel...@appstate.edu
Professor and Assistant Chairperson
Department of Psychology http://www.psych.appstate.edu
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608
USA



On 1/15/2013 9:21 AM, Deborah S. Briihl wrote:



Hello! A new rule was put into place in Georgia that now funds
colleges and universities based on graduation rates (rather than
number of students). It has put our university in an absolute frantic
mess. Our graduation rates, from what I understand, stink. I know this
model is used in other states. Can others comment on the kinds of
changes that they saw at their university?

Deborah Briihl, PhD
Dept. of Psychology and Counseling
Valdosta State University
229-333-5994
dbri...@valdosta.edu 

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Re: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

[John Kulig]

Nice replies (Jim C, Karl W and Mike P and others ..) so I won't repeat what 
has been said except to note - as a tangent to the original posts - that in 
some of my classes I spend time with the "relative risk" Karl W discusses. I 
use the example of aspirin and MI (heart attack) in the 1988 (New England 
Journal of Med?? if I remember) article of 22,000+ physicians who took aspirin 
vs. placebo. My chi square calculated on their frequencies reveal p < .01, yet 
the risk of MI only drops from 1.7% to .9% in the sample over the years 
studied. As an absolute value, the % decrease is very small, but expressed as 
relative risk we can say we cut the risk in half. Of course, any "significant" 
decrease will be championed as the stakes are very high with MI .. and 
sometimes high with flu as well .. 

At any rate, I got MY flu shot! So I am OK. p < .05 :-) 


== 
John W. Kulig, Ph.D. 
Professor of Psychology 
Coordinator, University Honors 
Plymouth State University 
Plymouth NH 03264 
== 

- Original Message -

From: "Jim Clark"  
To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:14:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance 

Hi 

I see figures that are considerably higher than the 2.7% reported by 
Karl (although I did see that figure as well). The CDC appears to be 
saying between 5 and 20%. 

Whatever the average, of course, different groups of people could have 
varying values around that average AND the consequences (death in some 
cases) could differ markedly for different groups. 

Also relevant is the fact that the flu shot appears to be protective 
for some heart conditions. See 

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/flu-heart.htm 

Here in Manitoba, Canada (a socialist country I know) flu shots have 
been free for young and old people for some years and are now free for 
everyone who wants one. Here are statistics by province for percent of 
population getting shot and percent getting flu (r = -.598). 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/05/10/bc-flu-vaccine-report.html
 

Again, percent getting flu is quite a bit higher than single digit: 
average = 14.22 (including of course those getting shot). 

Take care 
Jim 


James M. Clark 
Professor & Chair of Psychology 
j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca 
Room 4L41A 
204-786-9757 
204-774-4134 Fax 
Dept of Psychology, U of Winnipeg 
515 Portage Ave, Winnipeg, MB 
R3B 0R4 CANADA 


>>> Paul C Bernhardt  15-Jan-13 12:40 PM 
>>> 
Considering that most of us work with a population of students that 
generally don't get a flu shot and tend to socialize at a very high 
level (increasing their likelihood of contracting and passing on the 
flu) I'm a big believer in faculty getting the flu shot. 

Paul 

On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wrote: 







That is not a p value, it is relative risk factor. The annual 
rate of infection with Type A or Type B flu is about 2.7%. If you get 
vaccinated that drops to about 1.2%. Ignored here is the possibility 
that there may be pre-existing differences between those that get the 
shot and those who don*t. Bottom line, you probably will not get the 
A/B flu whether or not you get the shot, but getting the shot lowers the 
(small) risk a lot. Given that some types of folks die from the flu, 
you should get the shot, IMHO, if for no other reason that reducing the 
risk that you will spread it to a vulnerable person. Of course, there 
are a lot of illnesses that mimic the symptoms of A/B flu, so don*t be 
surprised if you get sick even after having the shot. 

Cheers, 
 
- Original Message - 
From: michael sylvester 
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences 
(TIPS) 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:16 AM 
Subject: Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance 

In psychological science we require at least a p.05 or better 
to come to reliable conclusions about the impact of the IV on the DV. 
But the flu vaccine only has a p.6 (62%) effectiveness, 
so why are we recommending that everyone get a flu shot. 
With such a low level of significance,could this be the quintessential 
'placebo effect' paradigm? 
Any MD on Tips except for Beth's husband? 
michael 


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Re: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

[Jim Clark]

Hi

I see figures that are considerably higher than the 2.7% reported by
Karl (although I did see that figure as well).  The CDC appears to be
saying between 5 and 20%.

Whatever the average, of course, different groups of people could have
varying values around that average AND the consequences (death in some
cases) could differ markedly for different groups.

Also relevant is the fact that the flu shot appears to be protective
for some heart conditions.  See

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/flu-heart.htm

Here in Manitoba, Canada (a socialist country I know) flu shots have
been free for young and old people for some years and are now free for
everyone who wants one.  Here are statistics by province for percent of
population getting shot and percent getting flu (r = -.598).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/05/10/bc-flu-vaccine-report.html

Again, percent getting flu is quite a bit higher than single digit:
average = 14.22 (including of course those getting shot).

Take care
Jim


James M. Clark
Professor & Chair of Psychology
j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca
Room 4L41A
204-786-9757
204-774-4134 Fax
Dept of Psychology, U of Winnipeg
515 Portage Ave, Winnipeg, MB
R3B 0R4  CANADA


>>> Paul C Bernhardt  15-Jan-13 12:40 PM
>>>
Considering that most of us work with a population of students that
generally don't get a flu shot and tend to socialize at a very high
level (increasing their likelihood of contracting and passing on the
flu) I'm a big believer in faculty getting the flu shot.

Paul

On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wrote:







 That is not a p value, it is relative risk factor.  The annual
rate of infection with Type A or Type B flu is about 2.7%.  If you get
vaccinated that drops to about 1.2%.  Ignored here is the possibility
that there may be pre-existing differences between those that get the
shot and those who don*t.  Bottom line, you probably will not get the
A/B flu whether or not you get the shot, but getting the shot lowers the
(small) risk a lot.  Given that some types of folks die from the flu,
you should get the shot, IMHO, if for no other reason that reducing the
risk that you will spread it to a vulnerable person.  Of course, there
are a lot of illnesses that mimic the symptoms of A/B flu, so don*t be
surprised if you get sick even after having the shot.

Cheers,

- Original Message -
From: michael sylvester
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
(TIPS)
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

In psychological  science we require at least a p.05 or better
to come to reliable conclusions about the impact of the IV on the DV.
But the flu vaccine only has a p.6 (62%) effectiveness,
so why are we  recommending that everyone get a flu shot.
With such a low level of significance,could this be the quintessential
'placebo effect' paradigm?
Any MD on Tips except for Beth's husband?
michael


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Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation

[Christopher Green]

In Texas (and Florida?) they are already measuring professors' "value" by 
adding the research grants brought in and the combined tuition of the students 
in that professor's classes, and then subtracting the salary. If you bring in a 
lot of grants and/or teach a lot of students, you're a "profit center." If you 
don't bring in grants and teach small classes, you're a "cost center." Out you 
go? Well, not yet, but it is coming. 

Chris
---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=

On 2013-01-15, at 1:01 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wrote:

>   In the next iteration, faculty salaries are pro-rated in terms of how 
> good the grades they award.
> 
> Karl W.
> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Steele [mailto:steel...@appstate.edu] 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:01 AM
> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
> Subject: Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation
> 
> 
> Use of this rule is being discussed in the NC legislature.  I think the 
> contingency is pretty simple:
> 
> Pass everybody -> increase in graduation rates -> more money.
> 
> I don't think it will take a long time for the school administrations to 
> comprehend this relationship and act accordingly.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> Kenneth M. Steele, Ph. D.steel...@appstate.edu
> Professor and Assistant Chairperson
> Department of Psychology http://www.psych.appstate.edu
> Appalachian State University
> Boone, NC 28608
> USA
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/15/2013 9:21 AM, Deborah S. Briihl wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello! A new rule was put into place in Georgia that now funds 
>> colleges and universities based on graduation rates (rather than 
>> number of students). It has put our university in an absolute frantic 
>> mess. Our graduation rates, from what I understand, stink. I know this 
>> model is used in other states. Can others comment on the kinds of 
>> changes that they saw at their university?
>> 
>> Deborah Briihl, PhD
>> Dept. of Psychology and Counseling
>> Valdosta State University
>> 229-333-5994
>> dbri...@valdosta.edu 
>> 
>> ---
> 
> 
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Re: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

[Paul C Bernhardt]

Considering that most of us work with a population of students that generally 
don't get a flu shot and tend to socialize at a very high level (increasing 
their likelihood of contracting and passing on the flu) I'm a big believer in 
faculty getting the flu shot.

Paul

On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Wuensch, Karl L wrote:







 That is not a p value, it is relative risk factor.  The annual rate of 
infection with Type A or Type B flu is about 2.7%.  If you get vaccinated that 
drops to about 1.2%.  Ignored here is the possibility that there may be 
pre-existing differences between those that get the shot and those who don’t.  
Bottom line, you probably will not get the A/B flu whether or not you get the 
shot, but getting the shot lowers the (small) risk a lot.  Given that some 
types of folks die from the flu, you should get the shot, IMHO, if for no other 
reason that reducing the risk that you will spread it to a vulnerable person.  
Of course, there are a lot of illnesses that mimic the symptoms of A/B flu, so 
don’t be surprised if you get sick even after having the shot.

Cheers,

- Original Message -
From: michael sylvester
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences 
(TIPS)
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

In psychological  science we require at least a p.05 or better
to come to reliable conclusions about the impact of the IV on the DV.
But the flu vaccine only has a p.6 (62%) effectiveness,
so why are we  recommending that everyone get a flu shot.
With such a low level of significance,could this be the quintessential 'placebo 
effect' paradigm?
Any MD on Tips except for Beth's husband?
michael


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re: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

[Mike Palij]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:22:05 -0800, Michael Sylvester wrote:

In psychological  science we require at least a p.05 or better
to come to reliable conclusions about the impact of the IV on the DV.


There are too many things wrong with this statement to correct
right now but the key point that I think that Prof. Sylvester is trying
to make is that one typically sets the Type I error rate alpha= .05,
meaning that that an observed inferential statistical test result would
occur by chance only 5% of the time if the null hypothesis is true.
Onward.


But the flu vaccine only has a p.6 (62%) effectiveness,


Prof. Sylvester has confused vaccine effectiveness with the Type I
error rate.  Vaccine efficacy and vaccine effectiveness are related
concepts but apply to different situations.  Quoting from the
Wikipedia entry on "Influenza Vaccine":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#Effectiveness_of_vaccine
|Effectiveness of vaccine
|
|A vaccine is assessed by its efficacy, the extent to which it
|reduces risk of disease under controlled conditions, and its
|effectiveness, the observed reduction in risk after the vaccine
|is put into use.[39]

One way to view the distinction is that vaccine efficacy is an
effect size measure of the vaccine's ability to prevent the development
of a case of flu and can be thought of as reflecting the internal
validity of the causal relationship between vaccination and illness
prevention.

Vaccine effectiveness, however, is more like external validity,
that is, once one has left the controlled condition of the clinical
trial and gone into the community, what percentage of people
are NOW prevented from developing the illness.  Further
quoting from the Wikipedia entry:

|In the case of influenza, effectiveness is expected to be lower
|than the efficacy because it is measured using the rates of
|influenza-like illness, which is not always caused by influenza.[40]
|Influenza vaccines generally show high efficacy, as measured
|by the antibody production induced in animal models or
|vaccinated people,[41] or most rigorously, by immunizing
|healthy adult volunteers and then challenging them with virulent
|influenza virus.[42] However, studies on the effectiveness of
|flu vaccines in the real world are uniquely difficult; vaccines
|may be imperfectly matched, virus prevalence varies widely
|between years, and influenza is often confused with other
|influenza-like illnesses.[43] However, in most years (16 of
|the 19 years before 2007), the flu vaccine strains have been
|a good match for the circulating strains,[44] and even a
|mis-matched vaccine can often provide cross-protection.[45]

It should be noted that these concepts come from epidemiology
and public health.  The CDC provides an online textbook on
Epi and an example of how to calculate the efficacy/effectiveness
is provided here:
http://www.cdc.gov/osels/scientific_edu/ss1978/lesson3/Section6.html

Quoting from the CDC website:

|Vaccine efficacy/effectiveness (VE) is measured by calculating
|the risk of disease among vaccinated and unvaccinated persons
|and determining the percentage reduction in risk of disease among
|vaccinated persons relative to unvaccinated persons.

The CDC reported the vaccine effectiveness in a recent issue
of MMWR and the article described how it was calculated can
be obtained here:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/pdf/wk/mm62e0111.pdf
NOTE: the 95% CI is 51%-71%.


so why are we  recommending that everyone get a flu shot.
With such a low level of significance,could this be the quintessential
'placebo effect' paradigm?


Professor Sylvester has confused apples with mangoes.  The
Type I error rate has nothing to do with the statistical estimate
VE which is essentially a sample statistic estimating a population
parameter.  As the CDC points out: "the numerator [of VE]
(risk among unvaccinated − risk among vaccinated) is sometimes
called the risk difference or excess risk."  The greater the effect
of vaccine in reducing the occurrence of the illness, the greater
the difference is.  If the vaccine is infective, the difference is small
or zero, meaning that the numerator is essentially zero.  Dividing
zero by any number produces zero which implies that if the
vaccine has no effect, VE=0. One could set this as a null hypothesized
value, use Type I error rate alpha=.05, and then do a one sample
test of the obtained VE against a population VE=0.00.


Any MD on Tips except for Beth's husband?


You want to talk to an epidemiologist and not an MD unless that
MD also has a MPH.

-Mike Palij
New York University
m...@nyu.edu


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RE: [tips] Funding based on graduation

[Wuensch, Karl L]

In the next iteration, faculty salaries are pro-rated in terms of how 
good the grades they award.

Karl W.
-Original Message-
From: Ken Steele [mailto:steel...@appstate.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:01 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation


Use of this rule is being discussed in the NC legislature.  I think the 
contingency is pretty simple:

Pass everybody -> increase in graduation rates -> more money.

I don't think it will take a long time for the school administrations to 
comprehend this relationship and act accordingly.

Ken


Kenneth M. Steele, Ph. D.steel...@appstate.edu
Professor and Assistant Chairperson
Department of Psychology http://www.psych.appstate.edu
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608
USA



On 1/15/2013 9:21 AM, Deborah S. Briihl wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello! A new rule was put into place in Georgia that now funds 
> colleges and universities based on graduation rates (rather than 
> number of students). It has put our university in an absolute frantic 
> mess. Our graduation rates, from what I understand, stink. I know this 
> model is used in other states. Can others comment on the kinds of 
> changes that they saw at their university?
>
> Deborah Briihl, PhD
> Dept. of Psychology and Counseling
> Valdosta State University
> 229-333-5994
> dbri...@valdosta.edu 
>
> ---


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RE: [tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

[Wuensch, Karl L]

 That is not a p value, it is relative risk factor.  The annual rate of 
infection with Type A or Type B flu is about 2.7%.  If you get vaccinated that 
drops to about 1.2%.  Ignored here is the possibility that there may be 
pre-existing differences between those that get the shot and those who don't.  
Bottom line, you probably will not get the A/B flu whether or not you get the 
shot, but getting the shot lowers the (small) risk a lot.  Given that some 
types of folks die from the flu, you should get the shot, IMHO, if for no other 
reason that reducing the risk that you will spread it to a vulnerable person.  
Of course, there are a lot of illnesses that mimic the symptoms of A/B flu, so 
don't be surprised if you get sick even after having the shot.

Cheers,
[Karl L. Wuensch]
- Original Message -
From: michael sylvester
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences 
(TIPS)
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

In psychological  science we require at least a p.05 or better
to come to reliable conclusions about the impact of the IV on the DV.
But the flu vaccine only has a p.6 (62%) effectiveness,
so why are we  recommending that everyone get a flu shot.
With such a low level of significance,could this be the quintessential 'placebo 
effect' paradigm?
Any MD on Tips except for Beth's husband?
michael


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[tips] Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance

[michael sylvester]

- Original Message - 
From: michael sylvester 
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: Flu vaccine and p.6 level of significance


In psychological  science we require at least a p.05 or better
to come to reliable conclusions about the impact of the IV on the DV.
But the flu vaccine only has a p.6 (62%) effectiveness,
so why are we  recommending that everyone get a flu shot.
With such a low level of significance,could this be the quintessential 'placebo 
effect' paradigm?
Any MD on Tips except for Beth's husband?
michael
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Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation

[Paul Brandon]

The whole thingus is based on an outmoded conception of higher education based 
on elite colleges where students had minimal outside responsibilities (were 
basically supported by families, scholarships, trust funds, etc) and thus were 
able to spend most of their time being students.  So 95% of Harvard's students 
graduated in four years.
Now, many students study part time, work part time, parent part time, 
occasionally drop out for a year or three to raise kids or accumulate funds.
In addition, business support/require employees to take the occasional course 
to acquire/upgrade specific skills.

The times they have changed; legislators haven't.

On Jan 15, 2013, at 9:46 AM, Christopher Green wrote:

> Ken has nailed the dynamics of the system perfectly. The only real question 
> is whether they will continue to make us go through the charade of "marking," 
> since everyone is going to pass. I suppose they will still want to know the 
> difference between As and Ds. Couldn't we just go pass/fail (except that 
> there won't be any fail?) :-)
> 
> Chris

> On 2013-01-15, at 10:01 AM, Ken Steele wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Use of this rule is being discussed in the NC legislature.  I think the 
>> contingency is pretty simple:
>> 
>> Pass everybody -> increase in graduation rates -> more money.
>> 
>> I don't think it will take a long time for the school administrations to 
>> comprehend this relationship and act accordingly.
>> 
>> Ken

>> On 1/15/2013 9:21 AM, Deborah S. Briihl wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello! A new rule was put into place in Georgia that now funds colleges
>>> and universities based on graduation rates (rather than number of
>>> students). It has put our university in an absolute frantic mess. Our
>>> graduation rates, from what I understand, stink. I know this model is
>>> used in other states. Can others comment on the kinds of changes that
>>> they saw at their university?
>>> 
>>> Deborah Briihl, PhD

Paul Brandon
Emeritus Professor of Psychology
Minnesota State University, Mankato
pkbra...@hickorytech.net




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Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation

[Christopher Green]

Ken has nailed the dynamics of the system perfectly. The only real question is 
whether they will continue to make us go through the charade of "marking," 
since everyone is going to pass. I suppose they will still want to know the 
difference between As and Ds. Couldn't we just go pass/fail (except that there 
won't be any fail?) :-)

Chris
---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=

On 2013-01-15, at 10:01 AM, Ken Steele wrote:

> 
> Use of this rule is being discussed in the NC legislature.  I think the 
> contingency is pretty simple:
> 
> Pass everybody -> increase in graduation rates -> more money.
> 
> I don't think it will take a long time for the school administrations to 
> comprehend this relationship and act accordingly.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> Kenneth M. Steele, Ph. D.steel...@appstate.edu
> Professor and Assistant Chairperson
> Department of Psychology http://www.psych.appstate.edu
> Appalachian State University
> Boone, NC 28608
> USA
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/15/2013 9:21 AM, Deborah S. Briihl wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello! A new rule was put into place in Georgia that now funds colleges
>> and universities based on graduation rates (rather than number of
>> students). It has put our university in an absolute frantic mess. Our
>> graduation rates, from what I understand, stink. I know this model is
>> used in other states. Can others comment on the kinds of changes that
>> they saw at their university?
>> 
>> Deborah Briihl, PhD
>> Dept. of Psychology and Counseling
>> Valdosta State University
>> 229-333-5994
>> dbri...@valdosta.edu 
>> 
>> ---
> 
> 
> ---
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Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation

[Christopher Green]

When I was in grad school, a friend of mine proposed that we should simply give 
everyone a bachelor's degree immediately upon receipt of four-years tuition 
from them. Then were would say, "By the way, we are offering a wide array of 
courses here, and you are invited to take any of them you would like over the 
next four years." 

This system would solve many problems. To address Deborah's question first, the 
graduation rate would instantly be 100%. It would also enable courses to rise 
markedly in quality, because only those who really wanted to be there would 
take them. Of course, the degrees would be worthless, but governments don't 
seem to much care about that anyway. 
:-)
Chris
---
Christopher D. Green
Department of Psychology
York University
Toronto, ON M3J 1P3
Canada

chri...@yorku.ca
http://www.yorku.ca/christo/
=

On 2013-01-15, at 9:21 AM, Deborah S. Briihl wrote:

>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Hello! A new rule was put into place in Georgia that now funds colleges and 
> universities based on graduation rates (rather than number of students). It 
> has put our university in an absolute frantic mess. Our graduation rates, 
> from what I understand, stink. I know this model is used in other states. Can 
> others comment on the kinds of changes that they saw at their university?
>  
> Deborah Briihl, PhD
> Dept. of Psychology and Counseling
> Valdosta State University
> 229-333-5994
> dbri...@valdosta.edu
> 
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to tips as: chri...@yorku.ca.
> To unsubscribe click here: 
> http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62bd92&n=T&l=tips&o=23004
> (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken)
> or send a blank email to 
> leave-23004-430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
> 
>  
> 
>  


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Re: [tips] Funding based on graduation

[Ken Steele]

Use of this rule is being discussed in the NC legislature.  I think the 
contingency is pretty simple:


Pass everybody -> increase in graduation rates -> more money.

I don't think it will take a long time for the school administrations to 
comprehend this relationship and act accordingly.


Ken


Kenneth M. Steele, Ph. D.steel...@appstate.edu
Professor and Assistant Chairperson
Department of Psychology http://www.psych.appstate.edu
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608
USA



On 1/15/2013 9:21 AM, Deborah S. Briihl wrote:




Hello! A new rule was put into place in Georgia that now funds colleges
and universities based on graduation rates (rather than number of
students). It has put our university in an absolute frantic mess. Our
graduation rates, from what I understand, stink. I know this model is
used in other states. Can others comment on the kinds of changes that
they saw at their university?

Deborah Briihl, PhD
Dept. of Psychology and Counseling
Valdosta State University
229-333-5994
dbri...@valdosta.edu 

---



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[tips] Funding based on graduation

[Deborah S. Briihl]

Hello! A new rule was put into place in Georgia that now funds colleges and 
universities based on graduation rates (rather than number of students). It has 
put our university in an absolute frantic mess. Our graduation rates, from what 
I understand, stink. I know this model is used in other states. Can others 
comment on the kinds of changes that they saw at their university?



Deborah Briihl, PhD
Dept. of Psychology and Counseling
Valdosta State University
229-333-5994
dbri...@valdosta.edu

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