Re: Tomcat vs Apache
Hi Woodchuck, Am Mittwoch, 18. Mai 2005 21:46 schrieb Woodchuck: another (simple) way to think about the difference is that Apache serves static web pages, whereas Tomcat *can* do some server-side processing and serve dynamic web pages. all else being equal (and with no mods installed on Apache such as CGI/SSI/PHP), everyone visiting an Apache hosted website will see exactly the same set of web pages. in contrast, a Tomcat hosted website *can* display different content for the same requested web page for each visitor. you can use Tomcat to host totally static websites and not use Apache if you wanted to. but Tomcat is meant for dynamic websites that interact in some way with the user (ie. capture and process user information) to produce custom results. You are aware, that Apache can do the same as Tomcat. The only difference is that it will use PHP or Perl for doing this. You can run totally dynamic php websites with Apache and they can be as scalable and performant as JSP websites. I.e. PHP provides caching technologies which are very simple but at the same time close to static page performance. It only depends on your programming capabilities and your understanding of how the technology you are using ist working. You can write non-scalable and unperformant applications with both, PHP and Java. And if you try to programme PHP like Java or the other way round, yo will very likely not get the best results. So, the real difference between Tomcat and Apache - in my eyes - is not what each of them can do but how heydo it. The technology makes the difference. It is a decision between two different worlds and philosophies. I like both. Both have there strengthes. Best wishes Lutz - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
Hi - thanks for that, I hadn't realised that the servlet-name default would still work in my webapp's web.xml. So I can reverse the logic as you suggest. Works great. Tim Parsons Technical Services wrote: Look here: http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-5.0-doc/default-servlet.html If you override the mapping by putting your own reference to the default in your web.xml for the app, you should be able to map it the way you want and then have a mapping to your servlet with the / path. Or have your Spring dispatcher catch everything and parse the path to redirect the static stuff. Haven't tried this myself, just some thoughts. Doug - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs Apache
You can find Peter's Benchmarks at http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/articles/benchmark_summary.pdf kr Marco --- http://www.kontaktlinsen-preisvergleich.de http://www.parfuem-faq.de Am Mittwoch, den 18.05.2005, 16:50 -0500 schrieb Caldarale, Charles R: From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more efficient serving static html. Is there really any issue on that? If so, things sure have changed. I thought the comparison was like 5 to 1. Is that no longer true? That is definitely no longer true - search the archives for Peter Lin's test results. It's not quite parity, but it's close. - Chuck THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
This has been a great and informative thread... I'm wondering now, how to accomplish what I want to do in Tomcat alone, rather than looking for a Tomcat+Apache solution (sounds simpler). The issue is that I want ALL directory-like urls resolved by a particular servlet (which is a Spring dispatcher servlet, but never mind that), but I would like very few kinds of static files (which I could name explictly *.gif, *.png, *.css or put under a static place) served statically (ie by the default servlet. The problem is that the url-pattern for a directory-like urls covers all urls. Is there a way to do the reverse of normal, state that you want a particular url-pattern (e.g. /static/*) to go to the default servlet , and everything else (e.g. /*) to go to a particular servlet. If so, how do I indicate the default servlet in my web.xml? (And I've already had recommendations from people to change the URLs for the dynamic stuff to something else, but that's not what the client/customer/user/design wants -- the url is very much part of the user interface in this application). thanks Tim Fritz Schneider wrote: Chris, Earlier versions of Tomcat were quite a bit slower than Apache when delivering static pages. For high volume work the preferred solution was to have Apache listening on port 80, and when it received a request for a page from in a J2EE context, to forward it to Tomcat, listening on 8080. A similar connector is used for Microsoft IIS. Tomcat had a major rewrite for Tomcat 5, and the performance difference on static pages is now minor. An Apache-to-Tomcat connector is now used for the following reasons (and probably a few more): 1) History. We started out that way, and there's no reason to change. 2) Expansion. We have been running Apache (or IIS) and we need to add a J2EE container. 3) Load balancing. We have too many requests for a single server, so we have Apache take the incoming requests and dole them out to three or four Tomcat servers. 4) Management. We have a lot of customers. Some need CGI, some need PHP, and some need J2EE. I hope this helps, Fritz -Original Message- From: Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:39 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-) Thanks. That was pretty much what I wanted to find out. BTW, I keep hearing of people using Apache and Tomcat in conjunction. How does that work? Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
(Er, and sorry I just realised I posted __some__ of this as part of a question on the list last week, but the question I have is now posed more concretely and wasn't answered then)! Tim Diggins wrote: This has been a great and informative thread... I'm wondering now, how to accomplish what I want to do in Tomcat alone, rather than looking for a Tomcat+Apache solution (sounds simpler). The issue is that I want ALL directory-like urls resolved by a particular servlet (which is a Spring dispatcher servlet, but never mind that), but I would like very few kinds of static files (which I could name explictly *.gif, *.png, *.css or put under a static place) served statically (ie by the default servlet. The problem is that the url-pattern for a directory-like urls covers all urls. Is there a way to do the reverse of normal, state that you want a particular url-pattern (e.g. /static/*) to go to the default servlet , and everything else (e.g. /*) to go to a particular servlet. If so, how do I indicate the default servlet in my web.xml? (And I've already had recommendations from people to change the URLs for the dynamic stuff to something else, but that's not what the client/customer/user/design wants -- the url is very much part of the user interface in this application). thanks Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE : Tomcat vs Apache
See comment in message. -Message d'origine- De : Tim Diggins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : jeudi 19 mai 2005 13:24 À : Tomcat Users List Objet : Re: Tomcat vs Apache (Er, and sorry I just realised I posted __some__ of this as part of a question on the list last week, but the question I have is now posed more concretely and wasn't answered then)! Tim Diggins wrote: This has been a great and informative thread... I'm wondering now, how to accomplish what I want to do in Tomcat alone, rather than looking for a Tomcat+Apache solution (sounds simpler). The issue is that I want ALL directory-like urls resolved by a particular servlet (which is a Spring dispatcher servlet, but never mind that), but I would like very few kinds of static files (which I could name explictly *.gif, *.png, *.css or put under a static place) served statically (ie by the default servlet. The problem is that the url-pattern for a directory-like urls covers all urls. Is there a way to do the reverse of normal, state that you want a particular url-pattern (e.g. /static/*) to go to the default servlet , and everything else (e.g. /*) to go to a particular servlet. If so, how do I indicate the default servlet in my web.xml? SRV.11.2 Specification of Mappings In the web application deployment descriptor, the following syntax is used to define mappings: * A string beginning with a '/' character and ending with a '/*' postfix is used for path mapping. * A string beginning with a '*.' prefix is used as an extension mapping. * A string containing only the '/' character indicates the default servlet of the application. In this case the servlet path is the request URI minus the context pth and the path info is null. * All other strings are used for exact matches only. (And I've already had recommendations from people to change the URLs for the dynamic stuff to something else, but that's not what the client/customer/user/design wants -- the url is very much part of the user interface in this application). thanks Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
Look here: http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-5.0-doc/default-servlet.html If you override the mapping by putting your own reference to the default in your web.xml for the app, you should be able to map it the way you want and then have a mapping to your servlet with the / path. Or have your Spring dispatcher catch everything and parse the path to redirect the static stuff. Haven't tried this myself, just some thoughts. Doug - Original Message - From: Tim Diggins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:23 AM Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache (Er, and sorry I just realised I posted __some__ of this as part of a question on the list last week, but the question I have is now posed more concretely and wasn't answered then)! Tim Diggins wrote: This has been a great and informative thread... I'm wondering now, how to accomplish what I want to do in Tomcat alone, rather than looking for a Tomcat+Apache solution (sounds simpler). The issue is that I want ALL directory-like urls resolved by a particular servlet (which is a Spring dispatcher servlet, but never mind that), but I would like very few kinds of static files (which I could name explictly *.gif, *.png, *.css or put under a static place) served statically (ie by the default servlet. The problem is that the url-pattern for a directory-like urls covers all urls. Is there a way to do the reverse of normal, state that you want a particular url-pattern (e.g. /static/*) to go to the default servlet , and everything else (e.g. /*) to go to a particular servlet. If so, how do I indicate the default servlet in my web.xml? (And I've already had recommendations from people to change the URLs for the dynamic stuff to something else, but that's not what the client/customer/user/design wants -- the url is very much part of the user interface in this application). thanks Tim - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
I think I need to ask a question before offering any information. When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)? -Anthony On May 18, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Chris wrote: I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed with Apache yet. Could someone explain or point me to something explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache? I have a large applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead. Is this feasable? TIA. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
If all you're doing is serve static pages, both are equivalent. However, if you ever need dynamic content, either client or server side, for example a page whose content is extracted from a database, or a form for which you need to record the values, you need some kind of intelligence. For that job, Apache relies on cgi and php, while Tomcat relies on Servlets and JSP, both based on Java. Unless you have a good reason to switch to Apache, you should stick to Tomcat. Le 18 mai 05 à 16:37, Chris a écrit : I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed with Apache yet. Could someone explain or point me to something explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache? I have a large applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead. Is this feasable? TIA. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-) Michael - Original Message - From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tomcat Users List tomcat-user@jakarta.apache.org Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 7:37 AM Subject: Tomcat vs Apache I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed with Apache yet. Could someone explain or point me to something explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache? I have a large applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead. Is this feasable? TIA. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
I think I need to ask a question before offering any information. When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)? We have a large java applet that runs in the client's browser window. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
If all you're doing is serve static pages, both are equivalent. However, if you ever need dynamic content, either client or server side, for example a page whose content is extracted from a database, or a form for which you need to record the values, you need some kind of intelligence. For that job, Apache relies on cgi and php, while Tomcat relies on Servlets and JSP, both based on Java. Unless you have a good reason to switch to Apache, you should stick to Tomcat. Ah, okay. The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-) Thanks. That was pretty much what I wanted to find out. BTW, I keep hearing of people using Apache and Tomcat in conjunction. How does that work? Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
Chris: I guess that the applet is just a static file that is served to the client's browser window. Therefore, ANY web server would work just fine. There are no appreciable differences between Tomcat and Apache for your requirements so far. They act very similarly when serving static content. Some can spout off about performance, configurability, etc... But, if you've got it working on Tomcat, I don't think that you'll see any difference using Apache-- unless, of course, there's more to your situation than meets the eye. Hope it helps, -Anthony On May 18, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Chris wrote: I think I need to ask a question before offering any information. When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)? We have a large java applet that runs in the client's browser window. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
Chris wrote: Ah, okay. The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet. The performance of the applet should have nothing to do with the server that delivers it, unless perhaps the server happens to be downloading slower than the user's link would allow. The applet by definition runs on the browser's computer, not the server. A. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
On 5/18/05, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all you're doing is serve static pages, both are equivalent. However, if you ever need dynamic content, either client or server side, for example a page whose content is extracted from a database, or a form for which you need to record the values, you need some kind of intelligence. For that job, Apache relies on cgi and php, while Tomcat relies on Servlets and JSP, both based on Java. Unless you have a good reason to switch to Apache, you should stick to Tomcat. Ah, okay. The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet. However the Apache Web Server may well have better performance when serving large files, I don't believe I have seen any benchmarks dealing with large files only smaller ones that you typically see included in a web page like images. I would recommend at least doing some testing by serving your applet under Apache. Just out of curiosity what does your large applet do? From the sound of it it was like 60mb, which is quite a large applet to say the least... -- Jason Bainbridge http://kde.org - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Site - http://jasonbainbridge.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs Apache
Chris, Earlier versions of Tomcat were quite a bit slower than Apache when delivering static pages. For high volume work the preferred solution was to have Apache listening on port 80, and when it received a request for a page from in a J2EE context, to forward it to Tomcat, listening on 8080. A similar connector is used for Microsoft IIS. Tomcat had a major rewrite for Tomcat 5, and the performance difference on static pages is now minor. An Apache-to-Tomcat connector is now used for the following reasons (and probably a few more): 1) History. We started out that way, and there's no reason to change. 2) Expansion. We have been running Apache (or IIS) and we need to add a J2EE container. 3) Load balancing. We have too many requests for a single server, so we have Apache take the incoming requests and dole them out to three or four Tomcat servers. 4) Management. We have a lot of customers. Some need CGI, some need PHP, and some need J2EE. I hope this helps, Fritz -Original Message- From: Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:39 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-) Thanks. That was pretty much what I wanted to find out. BTW, I keep hearing of people using Apache and Tomcat in conjunction. How does that work? Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
The dynamic aspect of Tomcat is used to write HTML dynamically. This is unrelated to the service of applets. If all you are doing is serving an applet, you don't need Tomcat, as your HTML is static. I don't know what some of the other replies mean, but this much is clear. On 5/18/05, Anthony E. Carlos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I need to ask a question before offering any information. When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)? -Anthony On May 18, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Chris wrote: I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed with Apache yet. Could someone explain or point me to something explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache? I have a large applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead. Is this feasable? TIA. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
For my own education, what the heck is off-roading? On 5/18/05, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apache is not a J2EE container - you are off-roading on this one ;-) Thanks. That was pretty much what I wanted to find out. BTW, I keep hearing of people using Apache and Tomcat in conjunction. How does that work? Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more efficient serving static html. Is there really any issue on that? If so, things sure have changed. I thought the comparison was like 5 to 1. Is that no longer true? On 5/18/05, Jason Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/18/05, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all you're doing is serve static pages, both are equivalent. However, if you ever need dynamic content, either client or server side, for example a page whose content is extracted from a database, or a form for which you need to record the values, you need some kind of intelligence. For that job, Apache relies on cgi and php, while Tomcat relies on Servlets and JSP, both based on Java. Unless you have a good reason to switch to Apache, you should stick to Tomcat. Ah, okay. The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet. However the Apache Web Server may well have better performance when serving large files, I don't believe I have seen any benchmarks dealing with large files only smaller ones that you typically see included in a web page like images. I would recommend at least doing some testing by serving your applet under Apache. Just out of curiosity what does your large applet do? From the sound of it it was like 60mb, which is quite a large applet to say the least... -- Jason Bainbridge http://kde.org - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal Site - http://jasonbainbridge.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
hihi, another (simple) way to think about the difference is that Apache serves static web pages, whereas Tomcat *can* do some server-side processing and serve dynamic web pages. all else being equal (and with no mods installed on Apache such as CGI/SSI/PHP), everyone visiting an Apache hosted website will see exactly the same set of web pages. in contrast, a Tomcat hosted website *can* display different content for the same requested web page for each visitor. you can use Tomcat to host totally static websites and not use Apache if you wanted to. but Tomcat is meant for dynamic websites that interact in some way with the user (ie. capture and process user information) to produce custom results. hth, woodchuck --- Dakota Jack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The dynamic aspect of Tomcat is used to write HTML dynamically. This is unrelated to the service of applets. If all you are doing is serving an applet, you don't need Tomcat, as your HTML is static. I don't know what some of the other replies mean, but this much is clear. On 5/18/05, Anthony E. Carlos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I need to ask a question before offering any information. When you say applet, do you mean a java applet that runs in a client's browser window? Or, do you have a web application comprised of servlets/jsps (or some analogous configuration)? -Anthony On May 18, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Chris wrote: I've been working with Tomcat for a while now, but I haven't messed with Apache yet. Could someone explain or point me to something explaining the differences between Tomcat and Apache? I have a large applet hosted on Tomcat, and am investigating using Apache instead. Is this feasable? TIA. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back. ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
Ah, okay. The only reason we were considering switching to Apache was to possibly improve the performance of our Java applet. However the Apache Web Server may well have better performance when serving large files, I don't believe I have seen any benchmarks dealing with large files only smaller ones that you typically see included in a web page like images. I would recommend at least doing some testing by serving your applet under Apache. Just out of curiosity what does your large applet do? From the sound of it it was like 60mb, which is quite a large applet to say the least... Basically it's the desktop version of our app redone as an applet. Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Apache
According to benchmarks posted a few months ago, depending on your circumstances, that may no longer be true (or it may even be the reverse). I don't have the url, but I am sure someone else does, or search for the benchmark site. On May 18, 2005, at 1:01 PM, Dakota Jack wrote: I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more efficient serving static html. Is there really any issue on that? If so, things sure have changed. I thought the comparison was like 5 to 1. Is that no longer true? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs Apache
-Original Message- From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 2:01 PM To: Tomcat Users List; Jason Bainbridge Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more efficient serving static html. Is there really any issue on that? If so, things sure have changed. I thought the comparison was like 5 to 1. Is that no longer true? /me awaits an email from Remy or Peter. ;) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs Apache
From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Tomcat vs Apache I think there is not much question that the Apache server is far more efficient serving static html. Is there really any issue on that? If so, things sure have changed. I thought the comparison was like 5 to 1. Is that no longer true? That is definitely no longer true - search the archives for Peter Lin's test results. It's not quite parity, but it's close. - Chuck THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs. Apache Performance Comparison for static HTML
Very interesting. Thanks for making the effort and sharing your results. -- *** * Rick Roberts* * Advanced Information Technologies, Inc. * * http://www.ait-web.com * *** Shapira, Yoav wrote: Howdy, Of course not. I'm only regergitating stuff I have read. But I have seen it from several different sources, so I took it as truth. Do you have benchmarks to prove otherwise? It could be the sources you read are outdated. I don't question their accuracy at the time they came out, although I don't even know what sources you're talking about (and it doesn't matter). Just for kicks, even though I've done this many times in the past for in-house purposes, I just did a simple benchmark so that people don't blindly accept X year old sources regarding tomcat performance. - Server hardware: Solaris 8, specifically from uname -a: SunOS 5.8 Generic_108528-15 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-5_10. It has 512MB RAM. - Tomcat version: 4.1.27-LE - Apache version: 2.0.47, compiled on above platform - JDK version: 1.4.2, with no switches at all, i.e. client mode with no special heap of GC settings (yes, I know I could improve performance for tomcat by tuning these). - Server.xml setup: nearly exactly the same as unpacked distribution. I just removed unneeded connectors, leaving only the port 8080 connector. Yes, I know I could improve performance by modifying min/maxProcessors, etc. - httpd.conf setup: nearly exactly the same as unpacked distrubition. I just changed the listen port from 80 to 8080 so that I could use the exact same JMeter test plan. Yes, I know there are many things I can tune here to increase performance. - Test file: a simple test.html file, static, simple content. In fact it's so small I'll include the whole thing: htmlheadtitleTest page/title/headbodyThis is a test page/body/html - Test program: Apache JMeter 1.9 final running on Windows2000 Pro, with JDK 1.4.2. - Test plan tree: Test Plan - Thread Group: 10 threads, 1sec ramp-up, 100 loops - HTTP Request: GET, myhost, port 8080, /test.html - Graph Results (with file output) - Findings: Server #of Samples Average Deviation Median Apache 1000 17ms2510 Tomcat 1000 29ms4410 For both servers, CPU usage was light, and memory wasn't taxed much at all. So what does that say? Apache is faster by about 70% on average ((29-17)/17) at serving this small text file, with both servers very close to their out of the box configuration. Out of curiosity, I tried the test again with a larger text file: 30K or so in size. The results then were: Server #of Samples Average Deviation Median Apache 1000 182ms 277 90 Tomcat 1000 185ms 249 80 So now tomcat is faster? ;) We could debate forever about whether it's representative of real-world conditions, whether care should be taken to configure the server for optimal performance, etc. That's why everyone can and should run their own benchmarks for their own applications. With the above information anyone could easily reproduce the test. My point, however, is not that tomcat is faster or that apache is faster. My point is that it's easy to test performance and that you shouldn't trust sources, especially if they don't directly apply to your platform/server/application. Yoav Shapira - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs. Apache Performance Comparison for static HTML
Nice. I'm bookmarking this post for the future. 'Nuf said. Thanks, Yoav! John Shapira, Yoav wrote: Howdy, Of course not. I'm only regergitating stuff I have read. But I have seen it from several different sources, so I took it as truth. Do you have benchmarks to prove otherwise? It could be the sources you read are outdated. I don't question their accuracy at the time they came out, although I don't even know what sources you're talking about (and it doesn't matter). Just for kicks, even though I've done this many times in the past for in-house purposes, I just did a simple benchmark so that people don't blindly accept X year old sources regarding tomcat performance. - Server hardware: Solaris 8, specifically from uname -a: SunOS 5.8 Generic_108528-15 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-5_10. It has 512MB RAM. - Tomcat version: 4.1.27-LE - Apache version: 2.0.47, compiled on above platform - JDK version: 1.4.2, with no switches at all, i.e. client mode with no special heap of GC settings (yes, I know I could improve performance for tomcat by tuning these). - Server.xml setup: nearly exactly the same as unpacked distribution. I just removed unneeded connectors, leaving only the port 8080 connector. Yes, I know I could improve performance by modifying min/maxProcessors, etc. - httpd.conf setup: nearly exactly the same as unpacked distrubition. I just changed the listen port from 80 to 8080 so that I could use the exact same JMeter test plan. Yes, I know there are many things I can tune here to increase performance. - Test file: a simple test.html file, static, simple content. In fact it's so small I'll include the whole thing: htmlheadtitleTest page/title/headbodyThis is a test page/body/html - Test program: Apache JMeter 1.9 final running on Windows2000 Pro, with JDK 1.4.2. - Test plan tree: Test Plan - Thread Group: 10 threads, 1sec ramp-up, 100 loops - HTTP Request: GET, myhost, port 8080, /test.html - Graph Results (with file output) - Findings: Server #of Samples Average Deviation Median Apache 1000 17ms2510 Tomcat 1000 29ms4410 For both servers, CPU usage was light, and memory wasn't taxed much at all. So what does that say? Apache is faster by about 70% on average ((29-17)/17) at serving this small text file, with both servers very close to their out of the box configuration. Out of curiosity, I tried the test again with a larger text file: 30K or so in size. The results then were: Server #of Samples Average Deviation Median Apache 1000 182ms 277 90 Tomcat 1000 185ms 249 80 So now tomcat is faster? ;) We could debate forever about whether it's representative of real-world conditions, whether care should be taken to configure the server for optimal performance, etc. That's why everyone can and should run their own benchmarks for their own applications. With the above information anyone could easily reproduce the test. My point, however, is not that tomcat is faster or that apache is faster. My point is that it's easy to test performance and that you shouldn't trust sources, especially if they don't directly apply to your platform/server/application. Yoav Shapira This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs. Apache Performance Comparison for static HTML
It probably bears repeating the link to Craig's analysis of Apache vs Tomcat standalone and the procedure for determining what is best FOR YOUR APPLICATION: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-userm=104874913017036w=2 BTW - as somebody alluded to earlier, this link was found through the FAQ, which describes at length the reasons why or why not to integrate with Apache. Jeff Tulley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (801)861-5322 Novell, Inc., The Leading Provider of Net Business Solutions http://www.novell.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/8/03 11:01:01 AM Nice. I'm bookmarking this post for the future. 'Nuf said. Thanks, Yoav! John Shapira, Yoav wrote: Howdy, Of course not. I'm only regergitating stuff I have read. But I have seen it from several different sources, so I took it as truth. Do you have benchmarks to prove otherwise? It could be the sources you read are outdated. I don't question their accuracy at the time they came out, although I don't even know what sources you're talking about (and it doesn't matter). ... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs. Apache/Tomcat
If you look into the Tomcat archives, this was answered a few days ago. But to recap, some reasons for running Apache with Tomcat: 1. Apache can handle static pages better (plain HTML). 2. Apache has great security and logging capacities. 3. Apache can handle applications in other languages, like Perl, Python, and PHP. This is great if you are using packages, like administration tools for open source databases, like mysql and postgresql. Now there are other reasons, but this is a good start. Now technically, the term Application server usually refers to a Java based server that runs J2EE (static pages, servlets, JSP, and EJB). If you throw in an open source, EJB server (www.jboss.org, www.evidian.com/jonas, www.openejb.org) with Tomcat, then you will have an application server. -Original Message- From: Timothy Fisher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 1:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Tomcat vs. Apache/Tomcat Can someone explain the advantages of using Tomcat with Apache, as opposed to using Tomcat as both web server and app server? Thanks, Tim
RE: Tomcat vs. Apache/Tomcat
If you look back through the list archives I think you'll find this topic has been beaten to death several times. -Original Message- From: Timothy Fisher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Tomcat vs. Apache/Tomcat Can someone explain the advantages of using Tomcat with Apache, as opposed to using Tomcat as both web server and app server? Thanks, Tim This email and any attachments are confidential and may be legally privileged. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any transmission in error. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, printing, copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited. Please delete this email and any attachments, without printing, copying, forwarding or saving them and notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail. Zurich Capital Markets and its affiliates reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Unless otherwise stated, any pricing information in this e-mail is indicative only, is subject to change and does not constitute an offer to enter into any transaction at such price and any terms in relation to any proposed transaction are indicative only and subject to express final confirmation.
Re: Tomcat vs. Apache
Hello, For one data point, I am on a project using Tomcat4-b7 (haven't admitted latest Tomcat into project yet) and seeing pretty good performance. Under a constant load from 3 machines running an automated abuse test against a dual PIII-733, tomcat delivered 140page/sec avg. for about a million hits before the engine mysteriously croaked. This is a moderately complex jsp/mysql based app of around 50 jsp files and a couple jars of lib code. I don't know how other servlet engines compare, but that's several orders of magnitude faster than my current user base requires. -matt On Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 10:50:24AM +0100, Mikael Aronsson wrote: Hi ! Apache is faster then Tomcat, and in some documents I have also found information that Tomcat should be less robust then Apache. I am running Tomcat locally on my computer and so far I have not noticed any performance problems, I am developing an intranet application that use alot of JSP and applets, but the number of users is pretty low, say maybe 5-10 active users. So, is it ok to use Tomcat for a solution like this ?, it would be interesting to know a little of where the bottlenecks are in Tomcat..., at the moment I don't have any possibility to try it out in a realistic environment, so it would be nice to have a clue if I should go for a solution with Tomcat and a separate HTTP server or use Tomcat alone. Mikael -- A weird imagination is most useful to gain full advantage of all the features. matt hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.spaceship.com/~matt
Re: Tomcat vs. Apache
Hello, I've just been reading about the new I/O api in Java 1.4. If it is as good as it looks, Tomcat wont need Apache at all in the near future. Tomcat should be able to deliver static pages efficiently enough on its own. Very exciting. Can't wait for the Java 1.4 version of Tomcat. Keep up the good work! On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 06:48:32 -0500 Matt Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MH Hello, MH MH For one data point, I am on a project using Tomcat4-b7 (haven't admitted MH latest Tomcat into project yet) and seeing pretty good performance. MH Under a constant load from 3 machines running an automated abuse test MH against a dual PIII-733, tomcat delivered 140page/sec avg. for about MH a million hits before the engine mysteriously croaked. This is a moderately MH complex jsp/mysql based app of around 50 jsp files and a couple jars of lib code. MH MH I don't know how other servlet engines compare, but that's several orders MH of magnitude faster than my current user base requires. MH MH -matt MH MH On Wed, Sep 19, 2001 at 10:50:24AM +0100, Mikael Aronsson wrote: MH Hi ! MH MH Apache is faster then Tomcat, and in some documents I have also found MH information that Tomcat should be less robust then Apache. MH MH I am running Tomcat locally on my computer and so far I have not noticed any MH performance problems, I am developing an intranet application that use alot MH of JSP and applets, but the number of users is pretty low, say maybe 5-10 MH active users. MH MH So, is it ok to use Tomcat for a solution like this ?, it would be MH interesting to know a little of where the bottlenecks are in Tomcat..., at MH the moment I don't have any possibility to try it out in a realistic MH environment, so it would be nice to have a clue if I should go for a MH solution with Tomcat and a separate HTTP server or use Tomcat alone. MH MH Mikael MH MH MH MH -- MH MH A weird imagination is most useful to gain full advantage of all the features. MH MH matt hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.spaceship.com/~matt MH -- simon colston [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TOMCAT vs Apache
Hi Chandra. Here is the full explanation of this by the Apache people: "Up until now we have not discussed Tomcat as a server add on, instead we have considered it as a stand-alone container and discussed how it can be used. There are however a few problems with this picture: * Tomcat is not as fast as Apache when it comes to static pages. * Tomcat is not as configurable as Apache. * Tomcat is not as robust as Apache. * There are many sites with long time investment in certain web servers, for example, sites that are using CGI scripts/Server API modules/perl/php... We cannot assume that all of them will want to ditch this legacy. For all these reasons it is recommended that real world sites use a web server, such as Apache, for serving the static content of the site, and use Tomcat as a Servlet/JSP add-on." This explanation can be found at: http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/jakarta-tomcat/src/doc/uguide/tomcat_ug.htm l under the section "Setting Tomcat to Cooperate with the Apache Web Server" The thing is that you won't notice any change when making tests with little load, but to do all this thing it's completely necessary when configuring "real" systems. Salu2. Jose. - Original Message - From: Chandramohan P [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 7:05 PM Subject: RE: TOMCAT vs Apache Hi Jose, Thanks a lot for the prompt reply..but could u elaborate a little further! Thanks, Chandra Original Message Follows From: Jos Carlos Cullar Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: TOMCAT vs Apache Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 18:23:48 +0100 Hi Sandra. You could use Tomcat as a standalone server, but Apache is better serving simple html pages. This is why it's recommended to use both Apache and Tomcat. Jose. - Original Message - From: Chandramohan P [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: TOMCAT vs Apache Hi.. I have a question that I need help in. When I can execute both JSP and Servlets using the Tomcat Webserver..why do I need the Apcahe server?? Chandra _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: TOMCAT vs Apache
Hi Sandra. You could use Tomcat as a standalone server, but Apache is better serving simple html pages. This is why it's recommended to use both Apache and Tomcat. Jose. - Original Message - From: Chandramohan P [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: TOMCAT vs Apache Hi.. I have a question that I need help in. When I can execute both JSP and Servlets using the Tomcat Webserver..why do I need the Apcahe server?? Chandra _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TOMCAT vs Apache
1)Tomcat is not robust 2)"horses for courses", Let tomcat do, what it is good in - "Serving servlets/JSP pages and apache serve static pages. for more details try and read the FAQ at http://apache.org ramesh _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
