Re: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
I found some benchmarks that used another app server, but it's the same kind of software as tomcat, so it's a good comparison. The clear answer is that a new opteron is what you should get and it's LITERALLY twice as good in the role of an application server(like tomcat): http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1149817,00.asp "Our most important server test for comparing the Opteron to the Xeon in an application server scenario is our 32-bit "Nile" application server benchmark. The test is both CPU and disk-intensive, and it emulates a book-ordering transaction-processing environment modeled on Amazon.com. The test uses Oracle 9i as the back-end, running on a Xeon 4P server, and uses BEA WebLogic Server 7.0.2 application server software. The BEA application server software runs on the test equipment – in this case we loaded it on both the 2P Opteron and 2P Xeon systems, with Windows 2000 with SP3 as the OS. " " Results on the Nile benchmark showed the dual Opteron system outperforming the dual Xeon by a fairly wide margin. Across a 300 to 500 virtual user load, where transaction processing stabilized with both high disk and CPU utilization, the Xeon averaged 7.6 Pages Received per second, and the Opteron averaged 15.2 Pages Received per second, double the Xeon. In the response time measurements, at the 200 user load, average transaction time (start to finish) was approximately 34 seconds on the Xeon and 30 seconds on Opteron, but moving to 300 users, Opteron stayed at 30 seconds, and Xeon moved to 50 seconds. At 400 users, Opteron was 35 seconds, and Xeon was near 80 seconds. And at 500 users Opteron was about 50 seconds, and Xeon was near 100 seconds. See Nile Benchmark charts below." 20-30 simultaneous users doesn't sound like much. Personally, I'd love to get one of those new Opteron servers! 64 bit processor and when the real 64 bit windows becomes available in a couple months it could really scream and it'd scale up to huge levels of ram if you ever needed it. Or it'd be 64 bit already with linux/bsd/solaris/ [you know you've been programming too long when you almost do Ctrl-s (like in eclipse) when you're finished with something instead of clickong on send] Paul wrote: not sure what the load is going to be ... would be nice to be able to adequately handle aprox. 20-30 simultaneous users. Not sure if that answers your question properly. -pl - Original Message - From: "Cristopher Daniluk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Tomcat Users List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:46 PM Subject: RE: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server What kind of load? Tomcat and Apache don't use anythign but a few mb of ram when you're not doing anything :) -Original Message- From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:35 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server what would be appropriate hardware for a Tomcat with Apache web server running on Win2k server (for a public OLTP-type web service with database backend running on its own dedicated machine)? probably use striped (raid-0) scsi drive system, but not sure if dual cpu's required, P3, P4 or Zeon system would be appropriate? -paul lomack - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
Assuming your application is well written and not doing anything insanely complex, any modestly configured box not running a DB would handle that load fine. Start with a ~2ghz server, w/1gb of ram as your baseline, and then add in the level of redundancy you want - failover nics, failover cpus, RAID configs, etc... -Original Message- From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:01 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server not sure what the load is going to be ... would be nice to be able to adequately handle aprox. 20-30 simultaneous users. Not sure if that answers your question properly. -pl - Original Message - From: "Cristopher Daniluk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Tomcat Users List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:46 PM Subject: RE: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server > What kind of load? Tomcat and Apache don't use anythign but a few mb > of ram when you're not doing anything :) > > -Original Message- > From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:35 PM > To: Tomcat Users List > Subject: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server > > > what would be appropriate hardware for a Tomcat with Apache web server > running on Win2k server (for a public OLTP-type web service with > database backend running on its own dedicated machine)? > > probably use striped (raid-0) scsi drive system, but not sure if dual > cpu's required, P3, P4 or Zeon system would be appropriate? > > -paul lomack > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
not sure what the load is going to be ... would be nice to be able to adequately handle aprox. 20-30 simultaneous users. Not sure if that answers your question properly. -pl - Original Message - From: "Cristopher Daniluk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Tomcat Users List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:46 PM Subject: RE: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server > What kind of load? Tomcat and Apache don't use anythign but a few mb of > ram when you're not doing anything :) > > -Original Message- > From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:35 PM > To: Tomcat Users List > Subject: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server > > > what would be appropriate hardware for a Tomcat with Apache web server > running on Win2k server (for a public OLTP-type web service with > database backend running on its own dedicated machine)? > > probably use striped (raid-0) scsi drive system, but not sure if dual > cpu's required, P3, P4 or Zeon system would be appropriate? > > -paul lomack > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
What kind of load? Tomcat and Apache don't use anythign but a few mb of ram when you're not doing anything :) -Original Message- From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:35 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server what would be appropriate hardware for a Tomcat with Apache web server running on Win2k server (for a public OLTP-type web service with database backend running on its own dedicated machine)? probably use striped (raid-0) scsi drive system, but not sure if dual cpu's required, P3, P4 or Zeon system would be appropriate? -paul lomack - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
Any decent dual-proc server with 1-2GB RAM would be more than sufficient, assuming your application is sane. My production servers are dual-proc with 6GB RAM (RH Linux) and they easily handle hundreds of simultaneous users (not to mention a couple dozen Tomcat instances) with intensive CPU usage and intensive filesystem I/O (RAID 5). John Paul wrote: not sure what the load is going to be ... would be nice to be able to adequately handle aprox. 20-30 simultaneous users. Not sure if that answers your question properly. -pl - Original Message - From: "Cristopher Daniluk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Tomcat Users List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:46 PM Subject: RE: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server What kind of load? Tomcat and Apache don't use anythign but a few mb of ram when you're not doing anything :) -Original Message- From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:35 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server what would be appropriate hardware for a Tomcat with Apache web server running on Win2k server (for a public OLTP-type web service with database backend running on its own dedicated machine)? probably use striped (raid-0) scsi drive system, but not sure if dual cpu's required, P3, P4 or Zeon system would be appropriate? -paul lomack - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
I forgot to point out that in the test where opteron was beating xeon 2 to 1, it was a 2.8 Ghz Xeon losing to a 1.6 Ghz Opteron!!! So with almost half the clock speed it was twice as good as a Xeon. That's impressive I found some benchmarks that used another app server, but it's the same kind of software as tomcat, so it's a good comparison. The clear answer is that a new opteron is what you should get and it's LITERALLY twice as good in the role of an application server(like tomcat): http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1149817,00.asp "Our most important server test for comparing the Opteron to the Xeon in an application server scenario is our 32-bit "Nile" application server benchmark. The test is both CPU and disk-intensive, and it emulates a book-ordering transaction-processing environment modeled on Amazon.com. The test uses Oracle 9i as the back-end, running on a Xeon 4P server, and uses BEA WebLogic Server 7.0.2 application server software. The BEA application server software runs on the test equipment – in this case we loaded it on both the 2P Opteron and 2P Xeon systems, with Windows 2000 with SP3 as the OS. " " Results on the Nile benchmark showed the dual Opteron system outperforming the dual Xeon by a fairly wide margin. Across a 300 to 500 virtual user load, where transaction processing stabilized with both high disk and CPU utilization, the Xeon averaged 7.6 Pages Received per second, and the Opteron averaged 15.2 Pages Received per second, double the Xeon. In the response time measurements, at the 200 user load, average transaction time (start to finish) was approximately 34 seconds on the Xeon and 30 seconds on Opteron, but moving to 300 users, Opteron stayed at 30 seconds, and Xeon moved to 50 seconds. At 400 users, Opteron was 35 seconds, and Xeon was near 80 seconds. And at 500 users Opteron was about 50 seconds, and Xeon was near 100 seconds. See Nile Benchmark charts below." 20-30 simultaneous users doesn't sound like much. Personally, I'd love to get one of those new Opteron servers! 64 bit processor and when the real 64 bit windows becomes available in a couple months it could really scream and it'd scale up to huge levels of ram if you ever needed it. Or it'd be 64 bit already with linux/bsd/solaris/ [you know you've been programming too long when you almost do Ctrl-s (like in eclipse) when you're finished with something instead of clickong on send] Paul wrote: - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
thanks all, the comments given here have been great toward selecting hardware for Tomcat/Apache web server in the following ways: * super fast and heavy hard disk access not so important if no database on same machine * 64-bit cpu (such as opteron) could be quite significant choice (where hard disk access is not primary) * load testing on development machine useful measurement in choosing hardware for production system -pl - Original Message - From: "Paul Sundling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:38 PM Subject: Re: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server > I forgot to point out that in the test where opteron was beating xeon 2 > to 1, it was a 2.8 Ghz Xeon losing to a 1.6 Ghz Opteron!!! So with > almost half the clock speed it was twice as good as a Xeon. That's > impressive > > > I found some benchmarks that used another app server, but it's the > > same kind of software as tomcat, so it's a good comparison. The clear > > answer is that a new opteron is what you should get and it's LITERALLY > > twice as good in the role of an application server(like tomcat): > > > > http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1149817,00.asp > > > > "Our most important server test for comparing the Opteron to the Xeon > > in an application server scenario is our 32-bit "Nile" application > > server benchmark. The test is both CPU and disk-intensive, and it > > emulates a book-ordering transaction-processing environment modeled on > > Amazon.com. The test uses Oracle 9i as the back-end, running on a Xeon > > 4P server, and uses BEA WebLogic Server 7.0.2 application server > > software. The BEA application server software runs on the test > > equipment – in this case we loaded it on both the 2P Opteron and 2P > > Xeon systems, with Windows 2000 with SP3 as the OS. " > > > > " Results on the Nile benchmark showed the dual Opteron system > > outperforming the dual Xeon by a fairly wide margin. Across a 300 to > > 500 virtual user load, where transaction processing stabilized with > > both high disk and CPU utilization, the Xeon averaged 7.6 Pages > > Received per second, and the Opteron averaged 15.2 Pages Received per > > second, double the Xeon. In the response time measurements, at the 200 > > user load, average transaction time (start to finish) was > > approximately 34 seconds on the Xeon and 30 seconds on Opteron, but > > moving to 300 users, Opteron stayed at 30 seconds, and Xeon moved to > > 50 seconds. At 400 users, Opteron was 35 seconds, and Xeon was near 80 > > seconds. And at 500 users Opteron was about 50 seconds, and Xeon was > > near 100 seconds. See Nile Benchmark charts below." > > > > 20-30 simultaneous users doesn't sound like much. Personally, I'd love > > to get one of those new Opteron servers! 64 bit processor and when the > > real 64 bit windows becomes available in a couple months it could > > really scream and it'd scale up to huge levels of ram if you ever > > needed it. Or it'd be 64 bit already with linux/bsd/solaris/ > > > > [you know you've been programming too long when you almost do Ctrl-s > > (like in eclipse) when you're finished with something instead of > > clickong on send] > > > > Paul wrote: > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
Why Win2K Server? If you want to stick with Windows, save some money and go with just Win2K Professional. Unless this machine is doing something else in addition to Apache and Tomcat I don't know of any advantage in going with the Server edition. Why RAID-0? Disk performance really shouldn't be that much of an issue once classes have been loaded by Tomcat. RAID-0 increases the chances of a failure. RAID-5, RAID-10, RAID-1, or no RAID at all would be safer choices. As to CPU choice/quantity, that really depends on the load that you expect. How many concurrent requests do you think you will see? It also depends quite a bit on the application itself. Have you benchmarked your application on anything? I would create a test routine and hit the development machine to see how much of a load it can handle -- then you can use that to get an idea of how much hardware you need. -Original Message- From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:35 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server what would be appropriate hardware for a Tomcat with Apache web server running on Win2k server (for a public OLTP-type web service with database backend running on its own dedicated machine)? probably use striped (raid-0) scsi drive system, but not sure if dual cpu's required, P3, P4 or Zeon system would be appropriate? -paul lomack - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
Hmm, make sure you have at least 2 webservers and the ability to bring down at least one of them at any time except when you have been posted to slashdot :) > -Original Message- > From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:35 PM > To: Tomcat Users List > Subject: hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server > > > what would be appropriate hardware for a Tomcat with Apache > web server running on Win2k server (for a public OLTP-type > web service with database backend running on its own > dedicated machine)? > > probably use striped (raid-0) scsi drive system, but not sure > if dual cpu's required, P3, P4 or Zeon system would be appropriate? > > -paul lomack > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
hardware recommendation, Tomcat with Apache web server
what would be appropriate hardware for a Tomcat with Apache web server running on Win2k server (for a public OLTP-type web service with database backend running on its own dedicated machine)? probably use striped (raid-0) scsi drive system, but not sure if dual cpu's required, P3, P4 or Zeon system would be appropriate? -paul lomack
