[Trisquel-users] Antwort: Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[shiretoko]

I wonder if a trans person is necessarily gay or not. Since being trans is -  
as far as I understood - about the gender identity and not about sexual  
preferences, it does in theory not have to be this way, though it's kinda  
likely.
I also wonder about terminology here... in which case is it actually ok to  
call a trans person "gay"?
Since we should always acknowledge the gender this person is identifying  
with, it's not ok to call a transwoman "gay" if she likes men.
Also interesting: are actually all gay people trans? I think they're not, but  
it would be great if somebody has further information.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

> There's nothing wrong with an organization or software project making a  
statement in regards to the changes they want to make in order to become more  
inclusive.


Changes such as...?

You're making such a vague request, the only possible ways I can imagine the  
FSF doing what you want are:


1. Saying something to the effect of, "Yes, we will work to make the FSF more  
inclusive." Totally empty.


2. Going out of their way to replace straight white males with transgender,  
ethnic minority, gay, etc people. That would be discrimination.


> This is a serious issue

No, it really isn't.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[jbh . tech]

I'm glad I don't live from your perspective, onpon4. There's nothing wrong  
with an organization or software project making a statement in regards to the  
changes they want to make in order to become more inclusive.


The following from the Hacker News post  
(https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12525465=news) makes some good  
points in response to the argument that "technical progress" should be a  
priority in situations like these:



This is a serious issue and you're not helping by trying to dismiss it as  
childish or otherwise delegitimizing it. It's very easy to say “technical  
progress” should be a priority when the issue in question doesn't affect  
you personally but that reflects a gross failure of empathy on your part  
rather than an argument against the Libreboot decision. Open source  
development, especially in the FSF's area, is generally about people  
volunteering their time and valuable expertise to contribute to a public  
good. It is simply unreasonable and unrealistic to suggest that people  
prioritize that goal over every other consideration. As a hypothetical,  
suppose the issue in question was anti-Semitism and a Jewish maintainer  
decided to leave – would you really tell them that they should just be  
focused on creating a free operating system?


To be clear: I am not saying that this is a valid complaint, that the FSF is  
in the right or wrong, etc. I don't know any details about the incidents in  
question but I can see that it's a serious allegation which should not be  
arbitrarily dismissed. I hope that the FSF works to ensure that the community  
and potential new contributors can trust them to follow their stated  
policies.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

> I'm still hoping that Trisquel, GNU, and FSF come out with public  
statements stating that they're working on becoming more inclusive  
organizations, specifically as it relates to trans and other LGBT folks.


Such a statement would be either without substance or a promise to  
discriminate. I don't see why you would want the former and I would  
vehemently oppose the latter.


Also, Trisquel and GNU are not "organizations". They're software. The only  
organization here is the FSF.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[onpon4]

If she was talking about this thread, then I think Leah has a reading  
comprehension problem, because I have been one of the most outspoken people  
against her here. I assure you, I'm not self-hating.


I don't think Leah has read this thread. She is probably talking about the  
Phoronix and Reddit threads.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Libreboot leaves FSF. Says FSF shouldn't exist anymore.

[jbh . tech]

Based on the following, I'm thinking whomever updated the  
https://libreboot.org/gnu/ page has read this thread:



Community reaction, and our response

We in the libreboot project are shocked and dismayed by some of the  
community's overall transphobic and sexist responses to this whole ordeal.  
While many have been supportive, others have been hostile. In the first few  
days since the incident, reading several message boards, mailing lists and  
IRC channels, it's obvious that the topic has quickly shifted towards being  
about Leah Rowe, instead of the actual issues at hand. There are calls by  
some to even replace Leah Rowe as leader of the libreboot project, or to fork  
the libreboot project. Her sanity was questioned by the community, while  
others patronisingly say that she is going through a difficult time and is  
acting emotionally. Others have said flatout that she should not have raised  
these issues, or that she should have done it in a more professional manner.  
Tone policing. Respectability politics at its worst.


Of course, it's true that women in society are taken far less seriously, so  
when a trans woman stands up for the rights of another trans person when that  
person is abused, she is considered crazy by some, and belittled by others.  
It's much harder for women - especially trans women - to be taken seriously  
in a community and industry that is still dominated by middle class white  
cisgendered men. The community's negative reaction to this news reflects a  
attitude of prejudice that is the reason a trans person was fired from the  
FSF in the first place.


The libreboot project will stand firm, regardless of what peoples reactions  
may be. We're not going anywhere, and the project is always expanding.


Most of all, we're disgusted with the FSF's damage control response, where  
apparently all they want to do is protect their reputation, without actually  
answering any of the calls against them, hoping that this issue will go away.  
It will not.



I'm thankful most of the folks replying here don't work for the orgs in  
question and I'm still hoping that Trisquel, GNU, and FSF come out with  
public statements stating that they're working on becoming more inclusive  
organizations, specifically as it relates to trans and other LGBT folks.

Re: [Trisquel-users] Scratch discussion: delete or not?

[taknamay]

Scratch 1.0 is free. Scratch 2.0 depends on the proprietary Flash (and  
changed its license, no idea if the new license is free). I believe that is  
the subject of this thread.


Of course, 2.0 being nonfree has no bearing on distribution of Scratch 1.0!

Re: [Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[dguthrie]

yay! please stay
join irc for stuff like this and talk to us on #trisquel, #fsf, and #gnu on  
freenode :-)

Re: [Trisquel-users] Scratch discussion: delete or not?

[dguthrie]

Scratch is a programming environment under a free license. It was developed  
by MIT to make kids think like programmers.

I don't know what you are talking about...
I suspect this thread is going to end up like the thing where someone wanted  
to delete libdrm...

Re: [Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[mkl80]

Thanks I will continue to make questions if there are any. Abracao

Re: [Trisquel-users] A virtual personal server?

[mcz]

That would probably be dissuasive, since "lurking" is one of those popular  
guilty pleasures.


On the other hand, since my page would be automatically active when my  
machine is on (meaning others pages would be on only when someone with the  
same system is connected), how would I feel about it?


Well first it only reveals that the computer is on, not that I'm available.
Also, no more of those awkward dead people pages.
The problem is that there can't be no delayed communication: when my page is  
off, no one can write something to me for a later time. It strictly becomes a  
live medium.


Oh well, not such a great idea, after all.

Re: [Trisquel-users] A virtual personal server?

[mcz]

I see, thanks for the explanation MB.

[Trisquel-users] Re : Loans & International Project Funding Lease, Rent or Purchase Bank Instruments such as BG, SBLC, DL

[pinmaritim]

..

Re: [Trisquel-users] Re : Scratch discussion: delete or not?

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

The main problem with Scratch is this one:
.

I don't know if it was fixed (that is: if Scratch now uses HTML 5 and
free/libre JavaScript instead of Adobe AIR/Flash).

Interestingly, in the same topic, someone suggested us to direct work
towards freeing/liberating the JavaScript used/recommended by Snap!
instead (like Scratch, and which must-**not** be confused with the
package manager of the same name), see:
.


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [Trisquel-users] Just lost every important files in my Trisquel Linux!!!! Very serious!

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

Don't worry mate, I accept your apologies.

I'm glad that you didn't insist on calling me like that again and again
(I know some people that are really difficult to deal with because of
this).

We all know that humans experience pressure due to external factors, and
everyone reacts differently everytime.

Just remember to share your questions regarding free/libre software
movement or free/libre software in general, even if you might already
have an answer for them. :)


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part