Re: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator

[Charles Perry Locke]

  Lance, you may have missed my point...it is not to reduce each individual 
post by 75%, but the suggestion was for Izzy, and some others who post over 
about 5 posts a day, to reduce the number of individual posts PER DAY by 
75%. Some have a tendency to treat TT like a chat room, quickly firing 
one-liners back and forth, many of which do not pertain to a discussion, and 
some of which are nonsensical or intended to be "cute" comments. If this 
kind of exchange is desired, then perhaps the involved parties should go to 
a chat room or email each other privately. TT's purpose is not to support 
this type of "chatty" activity, but to provide a forum for discussions. Have 
you ever read the guidelines for TT: http://innglory.org/discussions.htm ?

  The idea on TT is, when a discussion topic is posted, to take some time, 
give the issue some thought, collect some references (links are ojkay i this 
context), then post a response with some pertinent dialog that addresses a 
point in the discussion, or refutes a point, or adds to the discussion. And, 
it is best to address all of the points one intends to address in a single 
post. Some TT'rs like to respond to each point of a discussion in a separate 
email. This creates a lot more traffic than necessary and makes it almost 
impossible to follow a thread or discussion. I am just asking those on TT to 
try to cut down on posts that are not directly addressing points in a 
current discussion or starting a new discussion topic.

  These are guidelines and suggestions for making TT an easy and 
informative forum to use, and for staying on course for TT's intended 
purpose. And, I am only suggesting that posters use common sense when 
posting and not tie up bandwidth with more posts than necessary, personal 
anecdotes, uncommented links to web pages, and chatty type posts.

Perry the Moderate
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:17:56 -0400
PTM:By 75%??What's the deal with that?? PS:I deleted four more paragraphs
or, this post would have been much longer.
- Original Message -
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: June 11, 2004 09:05
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator
> Izzy,
>
>David's funnies are not often enough to be considered a problem, and 
he
> is careful to remove the "FW" from the header and give some attribution,
> like "From my cousin Buford in Idaho..." or some such. It was not those
that
> I was shootiing for. He is playing with me by feigning martyrdom by
posting
> a cute little quip by our favorite George Burns, then making me out to 
be
> out to be an ogre, and himself a compliant victim...sort of like holding 
a
> kitten up in front of the group and saying, "Perry, if you want to kill
this
> cute little kitten, go ahead." I didn't respond to him because if he 
wants
> to play the martyr game it's fine with me.
>
>But, common sense should rule all posts, Izzy. If you really can't
resist
> posting the latest web page you ran across without any comments about 
why
> you posted it or what you found interesting in it, or you want to post a
> story about your relatives, or a relevant one-liner like "Dogs never 
could
> handle the cats" (or whatever it was), then go for it. I will censor 
only
> two things, ad-hominem attacks and profanity. And, if you are really
> concerned about being brief, try cutting your daily posts by about 75%.
>
> Perry
>
> >From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Just trying to be brief! And I don't want DaveH to stop sending his
> >cuties--do you want that? Izzy
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

[Charles Perry Locke]

Sorry for choosing this email as an example...but here goes...
Lance and Izzy seem to be conducting personal business on TT. As soon as the 
topic became an issue ONLY between Izzy and Lance, it should have been taken 
to personal email. I could care less about your book exchange, and prefer 
not to waste time by wading through several exchanges of the supposed thread 
"real vs false" only to hear all about the book...I sent it...I didn't get 
it...do you want it...yes I want it...I'll order itoh my!.

Do you get the point?
Perry the Moderate
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:13:26 -0500
Oh, yes, I would like to order it from your bookstore if you like. Somehow 
I
didn't receive your personal reply-oh my.  Izzy

  _
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 7:12 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the real vs false
Izzy:Sent you a personal reply re: the book you asked about. Did you 
receive
it? Do you want it?
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 11, 2004 09:09
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

Lance, Did I miss the original question? Izzy
  _
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 3:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the real vs false
Izzy: Yes/No (book)? Lance
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: June 10, 2004 19:08
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false
The dogs were never a match for the Cat. :-)
  _
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:46 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false
Good day Izzy,
I shall call off the dogs.  I may even climb down from my high horse
demanding apologies from anyone that moves.  My attempts at convicting
others of sin have always been failures; perhaps the Holy Spirit really is
better at it.  Sigh, unemployed again!
After saying lets agree to disagree you make one final poke; enjoy it.  If 
I
was a big man I would not poke back.

Must...
Stop...
Typing...
To reconciliation from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Jonathan
  _
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:20 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false
Jonathan, I think there is little point in belaboring this discussion any
further.  I am "extreme" about everything I believe in, and see that as a
result of my "extreme" commitment to God.  I am not lukewarm about 
anything.
Let's just agree to disagree. You'll have to malign America and President
Bush to someone else who will agree with you, like G.  Izzy

  _
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
I feel that your extreme pro-American stance (with takes the religiosity of
Christianity and mixes it with patriotism) is an unchristian stance, one
that works against your faith.
Jonathan

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

[ShieldsFamily]

Oh, yes, I would like to order it from your bookstore if you
like. Somehow I didn’t receive your personal reply—oh my.  Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 7:12
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the real
vs false



 



Izzy:Sent you a personal reply re:
the book you asked about. Did you receive it? Do you want it?







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 





Sent: June 11, 2004 09:09





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false





 



Lance, Did I miss the original question? Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 3:45
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the real
vs false



 



Izzy: Yes/No (book)? Lance







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 





Sent: June 10, 2004 19:08





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false





 



The dogs were never a match for the Cat. J 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:46
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real
vs false



 

Good day Izzy,

 

I shall call off the dogs.  I may
even climb down from my high horse demanding apologies from anyone that
moves.  My attempts at convicting others of sin have always been failures;
perhaps the Holy Spirit really is better at it.  Sigh, unemployed again!

 

After saying lets agree to disagree you
make one final poke; enjoy it.  If I was a big man I would not poke back.

 

Must…..

 

Stop…..

 

Typing…..

 

 

To reconciliation from our Lord Jesus
Christ,

 

Jonathan









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:20
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real
vs false



 

Jonathan, I
think there is little point in belaboring this discussion any further.  I
am “extreme” about everything I believe in, and see that as a
result of my “extreme” commitment to God.  I am not lukewarm
about anything.  Let’s just agree to disagree. You’ll have to
malign America
and President Bush to someone else who will agree with you, like G.  Izzy

 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
I feel that your extreme pro-American stance
(with takes the religiosity of Christianity and mixes it with patriotism) is an
unchristian stance, one that works against your faith.  

 

Jonathan





  

Re: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator

[Lance Muir]

PTM:By 75%??What's the deal with that?? PS:I deleted four more paragraphs
or, this post would have been much longer.
- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: June 11, 2004 09:05
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator


> Izzy,
>
>David's funnies are not often enough to be considered a problem, and he
> is careful to remove the "FW" from the header and give some attribution,
> like "From my cousin Buford in Idaho..." or some such. It was not those
that
> I was shootiing for. He is playing with me by feigning martyrdom by
posting
> a cute little quip by our favorite George Burns, then making me out to be
> out to be an ogre, and himself a compliant victim...sort of like holding a
> kitten up in front of the group and saying, "Perry, if you want to kill
this
> cute little kitten, go ahead." I didn't respond to him because if he wants
> to play the martyr game it's fine with me.
>
>But, common sense should rule all posts, Izzy. If you really can't
resist
> posting the latest web page you ran across without any comments about why
> you posted it or what you found interesting in it, or you want to post a
> story about your relatives, or a relevant one-liner like "Dogs never could
> handle the cats" (or whatever it was), then go for it. I will censor only
> two things, ad-hominem attacks and profanity. And, if you are really
> concerned about being brief, try cutting your daily posts by about 75%.
>
> Perry
>
> >From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Just trying to be brief! And I don't want DaveH to stop sending his
> >cuties--do you want that? Izzy
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

[Lance Muir]

Izzy:Sent you a personal reply re: the book you 
asked about. Did you receive it? Do you want it?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: June 11, 2004 09:09
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
  false
  
  
  Lance, 
  Did I miss the original question? Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 11, 2004 3:45 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
  false
   
  
  Izzy: Yes/No 
  (book)? Lance
  

- 
Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


Sent: June 10, 
2004 19:08

Subject: RE: 
[TruthTalk] the real vs false

 
The 
dogs were never a match for the Cat. J 

 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan 
HughesSent: Thursday, June 
10, 2004 3:46 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
false
 
Good day 
Izzy,
 
I shall call off 
the dogs.  I may even climb down from my high horse demanding apologies 
from anyone that moves.  My attempts at convicting others of sin have 
always been failures; perhaps the Holy Spirit really is better at it.  
Sigh, unemployed again!
 
After saying lets 
agree to disagree you make one final poke; enjoy it.  If I was a big 
man I would not poke back.
 
Must…..
 
Stop…..
 
Typing…..
 
 
To reconciliation 
from our Lord Jesus Christ,
 
Jonathan




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of 
ShieldsFamilySent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:20 
AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
false
 
Jonathan, 
I think there is little point in belaboring this discussion any 
further.  I am “extreme” about everything I believe in, and see that as 
a result of my “extreme” commitment to God.  I am not lukewarm about 
anything.  Let’s just agree to disagree. You’ll have to malign 
America and President Bush to 
someone else who will agree with you, like G.  
Izzy
 




From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of Jonathan 
HughesI feel that your 
extreme pro-American stance (with takes the religiosity of Christianity and 
mixes it with patriotism) is an unchristian stance, one that works against 
your faith.  
 
Jonathan

  
    

Re: [TruthTalk] Bush blundered in his preemptive move

[Chris Barr]

\o/ !HALALU Yah! 
\o/ 
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !!
 

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
Sent: 06/08/2004 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Bush blundered in 
his preemptive move


Chris 
did live in Arkansas until recently.  I won’t tell you why he left, but he 
knows I know. J 
Izzy
 
What I know is that Izzy doesn't know ... 
as usual.  If she offers up anything at all on this subject then she will 
stand in judgment for it.
 



Ahava b' 
YahShua













(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)
Baruch 
YHVH,








(Bless The 
LORD)
 Chris 
Barr


a servant of 
YHVH

Re: [TruthTalk] A little kindness please...

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 3:19:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

JS--wisely, i hope now, it's We who are under attack :)
  
 


Ditto

a brother John

Re: [TruthTalk] A little kindness please...

[ttxpress]

ï


JS--wisely, i hope now, 
it's We who are under attack 
:)
 
 
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:25:28 EDT 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  || .. Teach thou me 
  what I do not see.   
(35:32)  

Re: [TruthTalk] A little kindness please...

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 7:54:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I sat in the bathtub yesterday morning and unexpectedly burst into great sobs of release. I knew that was the last loving cleaning release that I needed, and just sat there and gave in to it.  It was as if the Holy Spirit was giving me Heavenly Open-Heart Massage.  I only share this so openly right now, as it is so personal, in the hope that we might all walk in sensitivity where there is someoneâs personal wound lying there like a raw, twitching nerve.  Resist the opportunity to state the obvious clichÃs and stomp on it.  The person in pain is already aware of all the âobviousâ answers.  What they need is a tender, healing, loving touch from Jesus.  That must come through us, even with such a small thing as a kind word of understanding.  I canât express to you, Jonathan, how much I wish I could offer such a thing for you. 


Additionally, I must say that for one who flits about from one superficial doctrine to another, these words are remarkable.   They are indeed spoken as if they were the oracles of God.  Such words are suitable from framing.  


I must say that I appreciate all of you, even our Mormon friends.  When God moves in and around the printed words we often hurl at each other,    when that Movement brings healing and new forcus because of the sense of community that springs from these memos and emails, well, great is His handiwork and eteranl is His purpose.   

In preparing for an anticipated battle with G about whatever I said regarding Job  (I took time to read and note the entire book before going to bed last night), I came across these words:  

  
  Teach thou me what I do not see.   (35:32)  


An so life continues with a sense of excited anticipation, doesn't it?    
  


John Smithson

Re: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 7:10:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I shall call off the dogs.  I may even climb down from my high horse demanding apologies from anyone that moves.  My attempts at convicting others of sin have always been failures; perhaps the Holy Spirit really is better at it.  Sigh, unemployed again!

  

After saying lets agree to disagree you make one final poke; enjoy it.  If I was a big man I would not poke back.

  

Mustâ..

  

Stopâ..

  

Typingâ..

  

 

To reconciliation from our Lord Jesus Christ,

  

Jonathan



Days later and still finny.   

I 


must .


go 


to 


work 


now.


brother JDavid

Re: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 6:10:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

And, if you are really 
concerned about being brief, try cutting your daily posts by about 75%.


Sometinmes civil disobedience is a proper response. 

J

Re: [TruthTalk] A little kindness please...

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 6:08:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I sat in the bathtub yesterday morning and unexpectedly burst into great sobs of release. I knew that was the last loving cleaning release that I needed, and just sat there and gave in to it.  It was as if the Holy Spirit was giving me Heavenly Open-Heart Massage.  I only share this so openly right now, as it is so personal, in the hope that we might all walk in sensitivity where there is someoneâs personal wound lying there like a raw, twitching nerve.  Resist the opportunity to state the obvious clichÃs and stomp on it.  The person in pain is already aware of all the âobviousâ answers.  What they need is a tender, healing, loving touch from Jesus.  That must come through us, even with such a small thing as a kind word of understanding.  I canât express to you, Jonathan, how much I wish I could offer such a thing for you. 



With great emotion I say Praise to the Lord for this event.   

Case closed  but with addendum upon addendum (from our Lord).

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Conspiracy Buffs (I mean you John)

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 5:16:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Too funny Izzy

  





Perry has admonished against one word posts, among other things.  So allow me the digression of making it abundantly clear as to the prognosis of my waning regret regarding the disposition of something we longingly might call gratitude.   That it exists on my part for all the help that you and countless others have offered over the months and especially over the past several days, you may be certain.  




Just trying to get along.

your brother, John

Re: [TruthTalk] Defining Humility, Pride, and Interpretation

[Knpraise]

In a message dated 6/11/2004 3:56:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Yesterday JonathanH wrote:  
What one can claim is that they have a proper confidence in what they teach and think.  This is not absolute certainty.  It avoids such pride.  It refuses to confuse Godâs word with our word.  What is hoped is that our words become a faithful interpretation of Godâs words, that others may see through what we say to what God is saying to our hearts.


"Knowledge makes arrogant but love editfies.  If any suuposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know."   I Co 8:1,2

brother John

[TruthTalk] THANX, SMITHSON!

[Chris Barr]

\o/ !HALALU Yah! 
\o/ 
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !!
 

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: 06/08/2004 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Bush blundered in 
his preemptive move
An interesting exchange.  Chris, looking at this 
discussion between two who apparently know the facts, you have been presented 
with some facts that work against your claims.  Do you have anything of 
substance to counter with, or is your decision to resort to insult and the 
fantasy that truth is on your side all you have left.  I really do not care 
who wins the point, but right now, miss Judy can smile with confidence that she 
has made her point.  

Smithson commending jt is just about the 
same as saying I won the point!   THANX!
 
??"facts that work against your 
claims"??
 
jt contradicted her own facts herself in 
her own alleged answers.  The same applies to you as to her:
 
"My, my, my ... jt has such trouble with truth ... she ain't seen nothin' 
yet ... just WAIT 'til judgment day"
 
LOOKING FORWARD TO IT!
 


Ahava b' YahShua

















(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)
Baruch 
YHVH,








(Bless The 
LORD)
 Bro. Chris 
Barr


a servant of 
YHVH
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: 06/08/2004 10:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Bush blundered 
  in his preemptive move
  In a message dated 6/8/2004 8:17:15 PM Pacific 
  Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  jt: Don't be ridiculous Chris, why do you seem to revel in 
lies and half truths?  Your Hebrew wordsdon't change 
a thing.  It's another spirit Chris and I would not continue listening 
 because it lies.  Nice muddying 
of the waters, there, jt.  Thanks, but no thanks as they say.  
I'll just consider the source on your 
advice and stick with The Source of all knowledge -- The Spirit of 
TruthAn interesting 
  exchange.  Chris, looking at this discussion between two who apparently 
  know the facts, you have been presented with some facts that work against your 
  claims.  Do you have anything of substance to counter with, or is your 
  decision to resort to insult and the fantasy that truth is on your side all 
  you have left.  I really do not care who wins the point, but right now, 
  miss Judy can smile with confidence that she has made her point.  
  John Smithson 

Re: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

[Chris Barr]

\o/ !HALALU Yah! 
\o/ 
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !!
 

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 

Sent: 06/10/2004 7:08 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
false

If you go back a few months you will see where I have tried this with you 
before (not just me but others tried as well [there is that ambiguous others 
again I have no desire to out what others have communicated to me in 
private.  
 
jt:  Others like Ellsman, Chris Barr, Lance?  
I'm not surprised to learn that we have some 
private gossiping going on as well; so much for the divine dance and all 
inclusive incarnation.  Bad 
fruit.
 
Yes.  It is rotting, stinking FLESH ... on your part (again ... as 
usual).
 
No, Judy, not me.
 
Judy once again with her usual casting of aspersions.  Once again 
(SOP) the aspersion is false.  Crying?  No, LAUGHING -- I'm in good 
company (Proverbs 1:24-32)!  
 
Looking forward to a blessed, laughter filled judgment day!
 



Ahava b' YahShua

















(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)
Baruch 
YHVH,








(Bless The 
LORD)
 Bro. Chris 
Barr


a servant of 
YHVH
 

RE: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator

[Charles Perry Locke]

Izzy,
  David's funnies are not often enough to be considered a problem, and he 
is careful to remove the "FW" from the header and give some attribution, 
like "From my cousin Buford in Idaho..." or some such. It was not those that 
I was shootiing for. He is playing with me by feigning martyrdom by posting 
a cute little quip by our favorite George Burns, then making me out to be 
out to be an ogre, and himself a compliant victim...sort of like holding a 
kitten up in front of the group and saying, "Perry, if you want to kill this 
cute little kitten, go ahead." I didn't respond to him because if he wants 
to play the martyr game it's fine with me.

  But, common sense should rule all posts, Izzy. If you really can't resist 
posting the latest web page you ran across without any comments about why 
you posted it or what you found interesting in it, or you want to post a 
story about your relatives, or a relevant one-liner like "Dogs never could 
handle the cats" (or whatever it was), then go for it. I will censor only 
two things, ad-hominem attacks and profanity. And, if you are really 
concerned about being brief, try cutting your daily posts by about 75%.

Perry
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Just trying to be brief! And I don't want DaveH to stop sending his 
cuties--do you want that? Izzy

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

[ShieldsFamily]

Lance, Did I miss the original question? Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 3:45
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] the real
vs false



 



Izzy: Yes/No (book)? Lance







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 





Sent: June 10, 2004 19:08





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs false





 



The dogs were never a match for the Cat. J 

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:46
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real
vs false



 

Good day Izzy,

 

I shall call off the dogs.  I may
even climb down from my high horse demanding apologies from anyone that
moves.  My attempts at convicting others of sin have always been failures;
perhaps the Holy Spirit really is better at it.  Sigh, unemployed again!

 

After saying lets agree to disagree you
make one final poke; enjoy it.  If I was a big man I would not poke back.

 

Must…..

 

Stop…..

 

Typing…..

 

 

To reconciliation from our Lord Jesus
Christ,

 

Jonathan









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:20
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real
vs false



 

Jonathan, I
think there is little point in belaboring this discussion any further.  I
am “extreme” about everything I believe in, and see that as a
result of my “extreme” commitment to God.  I am not lukewarm
about anything.  Let’s just agree to disagree. You’ll have to
malign America
and President Bush to someone else who will agree with you, like G.  Izzy

 











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
I feel that your extreme pro-American stance
(with takes the religiosity of Christianity and mixes it with patriotism) is an
unchristian stance, one that works against your faith.  

 

Jonathan





  

[TruthTalk] A little kindness please...

[ShieldsFamily]

Jonathan, 

 

 I certainly understand how
it feels to be constantly dealing with a painful issue and then not only get
support, but “constructive” criticism for it.  (This is NOT to criticize JT
specifically!)  When one is dealing with
a crushing problem that has gone on for so long that it seems endless, and you
are just trying to survive, well-meant but ill-timed criticism can be like an
unexpected slap in the face.  When one’s
emotional and physical reserves are already depleted, such lack of empathy can
be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.  It is as if someone has walked up behind you
and given just that little kick that causes your knees to buckle under you. 

 


 
  
  In just the same way, when one has been carrying a crushing
  load, and on top of that has grown used to “helpful” critical
  statements, a rare word of true understanding can bring such healing and
  relief.  John’s kind post to me
  the day before yesterday was exactly that. 
  At just a time when the Lord has been doing the end of a long-stage healing
  in me of deep wounds, DM’s words of criticism cut me to the quick.  Even if the advice is right, the timing can
  be all wrong.  But unexpected kindness
  can be just a healing.  When I read John’s
  words it just seemed to just cause the dam to burst.  I couldn’t remember the last time
  someone really seemed to understand.  It
  was like the Holy Spirit Himself had come along side me, put His arm around
  me, and held me close.  Only John had
  the insight to know that was just what I needed.
   
  I sat in the bathtub yesterday morning and unexpectedly burst
  into great sobs of release. I knew that was the last loving cleaning release
  that I needed, and just sat there and gave in to it.  It was as if the Holy Spirit was giving me
  Heavenly Open-Heart Massage.  I only
  share this so openly right now, as it is so personal, in the hope that we
  might all walk in sensitivity where there is someone’s personal wound
  lying there like a raw, twitching nerve. 
  Resist the opportunity to state the obvious clichés and stomp on
  it.  The person in pain is already
  aware of all the “obvious” answers.  What they need is a tender, healing, loving
  touch from Jesus.  That must come
  through us, even with such a small thing as a kind word of understanding.  I can’t express to you, Jonathan, how
  much I wish I could offer such a thing for you. 
   
   Izzy
  
  Ecclesiastes 3
  1   There is an appointed time for everything. And
  there is a) time for every event under heaven-- 
  3   A time to kill and a time to heal; A
  time to tear down and a time to build up. 
  
 


 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Hughes
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:38
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real
vs false



 

From the sound of things you may not care
much for what I have to say in response.  You have not offended me, but
you have deeply hurt me.  That I am crying right now, a grown man weeping
over his keyboard may not move you, may not touch you.  You may feel you
have spoken the Word of the Lord to me, that you have spoken the truth in love. 
You have never been more wrong.  I want to type more but I can’t.

 

With tears,

 

Jonathan

 



  

RE: [TruthTalk] Conspiracy Buffs (I mean you John)

[ShieldsFamily]

Too funny Izzy

 













Perry has admonished against one word posts, among other things.  So allow
me the digression of making it abundantly clear as to the prognosis of my
waning regret regarding the disposition of something we longingly might call
gratitude.   That it exists on my part for all the help that you and
countless others have offered over the months and especially over the past
several days, you may be certain.  

In short, 

Thanks

JDSmithson

RE: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator

[ShieldsFamily]

Just trying to be brief! And I don't want DaveH to stop sending his
cuties--do you want that? Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator

No problem, Izzy, but at least a little introducory note and perhaps your 
comments on the article, or your impression of why the article applies to 
the topic would be helpful rather than just a raw link by itself.

Perry the Moderator


>From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator
>Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:03:38 -0500
>
>Perry, I realize I sent 3 website articles, but I think each one is very
>pertinent to our discussions of the past couple of days. Thanks. Izzy
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
>Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:13 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator
>
>This is just a reminder that TT is a discussion group. It's purpose is to
>facillitate the discussion of truth (whatever that is). With this in mind,
>please limit yourself to posts that discuss the topics presented by 
>members.
>
>Yesterday one poster had 24 posts, another just under 20, most of which 
>were
>
>one liners with little or no discussion content. Here are some types of
>posts that come across the TT forum that do not pertain to discussions, and
>that needlessly increase the traffic that one must wade through to find the
>discussion material:
>
>1. Posts containing a link to an interesting web page you found. If a link
>helps to progress an argument, make a point, or directly relates to a topic
>of discussion, then use it. But, please avoid just sending a link that
>pertains to something you think is interesting.
>
>2. A one-liner that does not further a discussion, or multiple one-liners
>that each address only one point of a larger discussion. Try to respond to
>an entire post with a single response of your own. Occasionally, if you
>leave out an important point you intended to make, or want to change or
>correct a previous post, then a second post is warranted.
>
>3. One-line responses back and forth between two posters for an extended
>period. This is a discussion group, not an immediate message board. If you
>go one to two quick one-liner posts with another member, why not take it to
>an IM board, chat room, or to private email.
>
>4. A cute joke or anecdote that you found on the internet, or that a friend
>or relative sent you. I am sure we each get enough "FW:" email every day
>that we do not need to wade through it on TT.
>
>5. ANYTHING that ends with "Send this to xxx friends", or "If you love 
>Jesus
>
>you will forward this to...". I would guess that Jesus could care less 
>about
>
>your email, and doubt that not forwarding such will affect your state of
>redemption.
>
>6. Personal discussions between two members. Most probably don't care that
>Bobby is in graduate school at the same place the other member's brother's
>son went. If it becomes personal please use private email.
>
>Thanks,
>Perry the Moderator
>
>
>--
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
>know
>how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
>http://www.InnGlory.org
>
>If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
>friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
>--
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
>know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
>http://www.InnGlory.org
>
>If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
>friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Defining Humility, Pride, and Interpretation

[Lance Muir]

Judyt:Hi, I'm Chevy Chase and, you're not. (SNL 
circa 1976)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: June 11, 2004 06:54
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Defining Humility, 
  Pride, and Interpretation
  
  Yesterday 
  JonathanH wrote:  
  What one 
  can claim is that they have a proper confidence in what they teach 
  and think.  This is not absolute certainty.  It avoids such pride.  It refuses to 
  confuse God’s word with our word.  What is 
  hoped is that our words become a faithful interpretation of God’s words, that others may see through what we say to what 
  God is saying to our hearts.
   
  Judyt: Today my 
  question would be what (in God's eyesight) is 
pride?
  Is humility 
  knowing and saying what Jesus says with the absolute certainty that 
  comes through faith?  
   
  Or 
  is humility having confidence in my own personal 
  thoughts 
  and spreading what "I think" Jesus might be 
  saying - wasn't it I, Me, and My that got Lucifer thrown out of 
  heaven?   
   
  Were the Bereans of Acts 17:11 proud 
  to think they could examine what the apostle Paul taught 
  alongside God's Word to see if what he said was so?  Is it pride to 
  believe the same grace enables us to do this today?
   
  Since Jesus is our Master and he left us 
  an example that we should follow in His steps (1 Peter 2:21), what does Jesus 
  have to say about this?  
   
  We know from His own words that Jesus 
  only said what he first heard the Father saying 
  (John 12:49 & John 14:24) 
   
  We know that his hearers did not 
  receive what he said because they did not have 
  the word of the Father dwelling in them (John 8:37, John 8:43); they were 
  counting on the fact that they were children of Abraham genetically to put 
  them over.
   
  We see that Jesus was confident 
  about what he did and said because His teaching/words came from the Father and 
  his hearers were condemned by their unbelief as we will be if we 
  don't get it together because all of us will all be judged by the words 
  He spoke (John 12:48).  
   
  Jesus was humble (see Matthew 11:29) So 
  God's definition of humility is saying what He 
says.
   
  I have been reading a lot about 
  "interpretation" and different kinds of mindsets that cause problems with 
  this. However, God's Word needs no interpretation because He and He alone 
  reveals the meaning to some and conceals it to 
  others.
  This is explained in Matthew 
  13:13-17.
   
  The secret of the Lord is with those who 
  fear Him and He will show them His covenant .
   
   

[TruthTalk] the real vs false

[Judy Taylor]

He is the express image of the Father - We are not
He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords - We are not
He created the worlds and right now they are held together by the 
Word of His Power - ???
Salvation is a walk of grace .. and those being saved should 
be on the highway of holiness
in the process of 'being conformed to His image' because the old 
man was nailed to the cross.
 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Judyt:I (Jesus-a Person) am the way, the truth and 
the life...He, Jesus, is the embodiment of all we are, have been and will 
be 'TT'ing' from now 'tilThere are few words that come close to embracing 
the reality of which they speak. One of those words is JESUS.
 

  From: Judy Taylor 
  From: "Jonathan Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Good evening 
  Judy,Do not be too dismayed by being judgmental.  You are in good 
  company; I myself am quite critical.  J  
   
  jt: Your criticisms are on a personal/national 
  level. I don't practice that and this is why I would like a list of what I 
  have said that you consider to be judgmental. 
   
  I am being very honest when I say that I could easily whip up a post 
  containing many references to you being judgmental, towards myself and 
  others.  You may think I am being double minded or hypocritical when I 
  now state that I will not do this. 
   
  jt: Why not?  If you are going to 
  continue to accuse you should be able to produce the grounds for 
  your accusation.
   
  If you go back a few months you will see where I have tried this with you 
  before (not just me but others tried as well [there is that ambiguous others 
  again I have no desire to out what others have communicated to me in 
  private.  
   
  jt:  Others like Ellsman, Chris Barr, 
  Lance?  I'm not surprised to learn that we have some private gossiping going on as well; so much for the 
  divine dance and all inclusive incarnation.  Bad fruit.
   
  A quick look back through your emails in the last 4 months will make it 
  very clear that the tone and judgmental attitudeexpressed in your posts 
  have been called into question a number of times.]).  It was 
  unsuccessful.  Note that to your credit this time you have actually 
  invited critique.
   
  jt: The reason I am asking you for evidence this time 
  Jonathan is because I am weary of your constantly alluding to these things. 
  You never dialogue in an up front way and neither does Lance.  Both 
  of you use obscure theological words and lots of one 
  liners. You appear to have some favorite authors and theologians in 
  common but there is no fellowship around God's Word. At this point I 
  don't believe you know the Word of God or the God of the Word.  Now I am 
  not being mean or judgmental - as you have repeatedly claimed "I am just 
  stating how I see it"
   
  The comment below was a contrast between Izzys graceful response to my 
  illness and yours.  You may think it double minded of me to praise Izzy 
  in one post and in another give a rather severe critique.  Never confuse a critique on something specific (such as a 
  behaviour, action, or words) with a critique on who the 
  person is as a whole.  
   
  jt: What??? You don't know 
  either of us as a whole Jonathan.  Izzy is a nurse by profession so you 
  apparently relate to her professional approach which is fine but all you have 
  is an opinion based on an internet persona with little or no actual 
  knowledge. 
   
  Anyways, conscious of the fact that I have a chronic illness and struggle 
  mightily with your viewpoint on a connection between sin and illness you made 
  a few responses that I felt contained little if any compassion.  I 
  thought that you should have been softer.  I feel that you should be much 
  softer in almost all of your posts.  I would love to see a spirit of 
  gentleness and caring from you. 
   
  jt: Jonathan if you've been struggling with CFS for 
  16yrs I would think you would want to be free of it.  I know it feels 
  good to be stroked but until you deal with the underlying spiritual 
  issues you will die with CFS so I try to encourage in a different way.  
  During his earthly ministry Jesus told people he healed to "go and sin no 
  more lest a worse thing come on you"  Do you think he was being 
  judgmental and hard on them? 
   
  What I usually see is a number of biblical passages thrown together to 
  make a hard edged argument.  What I find disconcerting about your 
  theology is that it does not seem to be good news at all.  
   
  jt: They are not just "thrown together" - Have you 
  bothered to go to the Lord about these things?  To me the Good News is 
  the proof of the pudding - which is actual freedom rather than all this high 
  sounding doctrinal talk.
   
  It doesnt lead me to Gods feet in worship.  You may be surprised to 
  learn that I used to think much like you do (actually I was probably even more 
  conservative).  I used to argue with passages in the same way, driving my 
  p

[TruthTalk] Defining Humility, Pride, and Interpretation

[Judy Taylor]

Yesterday 
JonathanH wrote:  
What one can 
claim is that they have a proper confidence in what they teach 
and think.  This is not absolute certainty.  It avoids such pride.  It refuses to 
confuse God’s word with our word.  What is hoped 
is that our words become a faithful interpretation of 
God’s words, that others may see through what we say to what God is saying to 
our hearts.
 
Judyt: Today my 
question would be what (in God's eyesight) is pride?
Is humility 
knowing and saying what Jesus says with the absolute certainty that 
comes through faith?  
 
Or 
is humility having confidence in my own personal 
thoughts 
and spreading what "I think" Jesus might be 
saying - wasn't it I, Me, and My that got Lucifer thrown out of 
heaven?   

 
Were the Bereans of Acts 17:11 proud 
to think they could examine what the apostle Paul taught 
alongside God's Word to see if what he said was so?  Is it pride to 
believe the same grace enables us to do this today?
 
Since Jesus is our Master and he left us an 
example that we should follow in His steps (1 Peter 2:21), what does Jesus have 
to say about this?  
 
We know from His own words that Jesus only 
said what he first heard the Father saying (John 
12:49 & John 14:24) 
 
We know that his hearers did not 
receive what he said because they did not have the 
word of the Father dwelling in them (John 8:37, John 8:43); they were counting 
on the fact that they were children of Abraham genetically to put them 
over.
 
We see that Jesus was confident about 
what he did and said because His teaching/words came from the Father and his 
hearers were condemned by their unbelief as we will be if we don't get 
it together because all of us will all be judged by the words He spoke 
(John 12:48).  
 
Jesus was humble (see Matthew 11:29) So 
God's definition of humility is saying what He says.
 
I have been reading a lot about 
"interpretation" and different kinds of mindsets that cause problems with this. 
However, God's Word needs no interpretation because He and He alone reveals the 
meaning to some and conceals it to others.
This is explained in Matthew 
13:13-17.
 
The secret of the Lord is with those who 
fear Him and He will show them His covenant .
 
 

Re: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

[Lance Muir]

Judyt:I (Jesus-a Person) am the way, the truth and 
the life...He, Jesus, is the embodiment of all we are, have been and will 
be 'TT'ing' from now 'tilThere are few words that come close to embracing 
the reality of which they speak. One of those words is JESUS.
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: June 10, 2004 20:08
  Subject: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
  false
  
  From: "Jonathan Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Good evening 
  Judy,Do not be too dismayed by being judgmental.  You are in good 
  company; I myself am quite critical.  J  
   
  jt: Your criticisms are on a personal/national 
  level. I don't practice that and this is why I would like a list of what I 
  have said that you consider to be judgmental. 
   
  I am being very honest when I say that I could easily whip up a post 
  containing many references to you being judgmental, towards myself and 
  others.  You may think I am being double minded or hypocritical when I 
  now state that I will not do this. 
   
  jt: Why not?  If you are going to 
  continue to accuse you should be able to produce the grounds for 
  your accusation.
   
  If you go back a few months you will see where I have tried this with you 
  before (not just me but others tried as well [there is that ambiguous others 
  again I have no desire to out what others have communicated to me in 
  private.  
   
  jt:  Others like Ellsman, Chris Barr, 
  Lance?  I'm not surprised to learn that we have some private gossiping going on as well; so much for the 
  divine dance and all inclusive incarnation.  Bad fruit.
   
  A quick look back through your emails in the last 4 months will make it 
  very clear that the tone and judgmental attitudeexpressed in your posts 
  have been called into question a number of times.]).  It was 
  unsuccessful.  Note that to your credit this time you have actually 
  invited critique.
   
  jt: The reason I am asking you for evidence this time 
  Jonathan is because I am weary of your constantly alluding to these things. 
  You never dialogue in an up front way and neither does Lance.  Both 
  of you use obscure theological words and lots of one 
  liners. You appear to have some favorite authors and theologians in 
  common but there is no fellowship around God's Word. At this point I 
  don't believe you know the Word of God or the God of the Word.  Now I am 
  not being mean or judgmental - as you have repeatedly claimed "I am just 
  stating how I see it"
   
  The comment below was a contrast between Izzys graceful response to my 
  illness and yours.  You may think it double minded of me to praise Izzy 
  in one post and in another give a rather severe critique.  Never confuse a critique on something specific (such as a 
  behaviour, action, or words) with a critique on who the 
  person is as a whole.  
   
  jt: What??? You don't know 
  either of us as a whole Jonathan.  Izzy is a nurse by profession so you 
  apparently relate to her professional approach which is fine but all you have 
  is an opinion based on an internet persona with little or no actual 
  knowledge. 
   
  Anyways, conscious of the fact that I have a chronic illness and struggle 
  mightily with your viewpoint on a connection between sin and illness you made 
  a few responses that I felt contained little if any compassion.  I 
  thought that you should have been softer.  I feel that you should be much 
  softer in almost all of your posts.  I would love to see a spirit of 
  gentleness and caring from you. 
   
  jt: Jonathan if you've been struggling with CFS for 
  16yrs I would think you would want to be free of it.  I know it feels 
  good to be stroked but until you deal with the underlying spiritual 
  issues you will die with CFS so I try to encourage in a different way.  
  During his earthly ministry Jesus told people he healed to "go and sin no 
  more lest a worse thing come on you"  Do you think he was being 
  judgmental and hard on them? 
   
  What I usually see is a number of biblical passages thrown together to 
  make a hard edged argument.  What I find disconcerting about your 
  theology is that it does not seem to be good news at all.  
   
  jt: They are not just "thrown together" - Have you 
  bothered to go to the Lord about these things?  To me the Good News is 
  the proof of the pudding - which is actual freedom rather than all this high 
  sounding doctrinal talk.
   
  It doesnt lead me to Gods feet in worship.  You may be surprised to 
  learn that I used to think much like you do (actually I was probably even more 
  conservative).  I used to argue with passages in the same way, driving my 
  point home as if I could speak for God.  
   
  jt: God has already spoken, and I accept it. I'm not 
  driving anything home. It's your choice where you want to walk.
   
  God had to wear me down quite a bit to allow the grace of Jesus Christ to 
  seep into my heart (and He con

Re: [TruthTalk] the real vs false

[Lance Muir]

Izzy: Yes/No (book)? Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: June 10, 2004 19:08
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
  false
  
  
  The 
  dogs were never a match for the Cat. J 
  
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan HughesSent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:46 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
  false
   
  Good day 
  Izzy,
   
  I shall call off the 
  dogs.  I may even climb down from my high horse demanding apologies from 
  anyone that moves.  My attempts at convicting others of sin have always 
  been failures; perhaps the Holy Spirit really is better at it.  Sigh, 
  unemployed again!
   
  After saying lets 
  agree to disagree you make one final poke; enjoy it.  If I was a big man 
  I would not poke back.
   
  Must…..
   
  Stop…..
   
  Typing…..
   
   
  To reconciliation 
  from our Lord Jesus Christ,
   
  Jonathan
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  ShieldsFamilySent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:20 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] the real vs 
  false
   
  Jonathan, I 
  think there is little point in belaboring this discussion any further.  I 
  am “extreme” about everything I believe in, and see that as a result of my 
  “extreme” commitment to God.  I am not lukewarm about anything.  
  Let’s just agree to disagree. You’ll have to malign America and 
  President Bush to someone else who will agree with you, like G.  
  Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of Jonathan 
  HughesI feel that your 
  extreme pro-American stance (with takes the religiosity of Christianity and 
  mixes it with patriotism) is an unchristian stance, one that works against 
  your faith.  
   
  Jonathan