Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
Because a lot of ppl go around talking about World Peace and talking Peace, Peace, when the way of peace they have never known. Sound familiar?? jt On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:20:35 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And yet, Matt 5:9 remains relevant to the discussion while completely ignored by the author, above. Why? jd There are NO opposing opinions within scripture because Christ is not divided ... The opposers are those who reject the "clear Word of Truth" Jesus the chief peacemaker and "Prince of Peace" they tried to stone, push off a cliff and finally crucified... when He was ready to lay down his life. jt From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There are NO opposing opinions within scripture because Christ is not divided ... The opposers are those who reject the "clear Word of Truth" Jesus the chief peacemaker and "Prince of Peace" they tried to stone, push off a cliff and finally crucified... when He was ready to lay down his life. jt On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:00:05 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Spoken as if there were no opposing opinions within scripture. Christ puts it this way Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God. jd Christianity is not a polite Debate society with all creeds given equal sway. Christianity is not concerned with egalitarian exchage of ideas with worldviews that are in error.. Christianity is not a hugfest The Bible uses Military imagery, when talking of the "good Fight of faith"! -- Kevin Deegan
Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
There are NO opposing opinions within scripture because Christ is not divided ... The opposers are those who reject the "clear Word of Truth" Jesus the chief peacemaker and "Prince of Peace" they tried to stone, push off a cliff and finally crucified... when He was ready to lay down his life. jt And yet, Matt 5:9 remains relevant to the discussion while completely ignored by the author, above. Why? jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There are NO opposing opinions within scripture because Christ is not divided ... The opposers are those who reject the "clear Word of Truth" Jesus the chief peacemaker and "Prince of Peace" they tried to stone, push off a cliff and finally crucified... when He was ready to lay down his life. jt On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:00:05 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Spoken as if there were no opposing opinions within scripture. Christ puts it this way Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God. jd Christianity is not a polite Debate society with all creeds given equal sway. Christianity is not concerned with egalitarian exchage of ideas with worldviews that are in error.. Christianity is not a hugfest The Bible uses Military imagery, when talking of the "good Fight of faith"! -- Kevin Deegan
[TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
There are NO opposing opinions within scripture because Christ is not divided ... The opposers are those who reject the "clear Word of Truth" Jesus the chief peacemaker and "Prince of Peace" they tried to stone, push off a cliff and finally crucified... when He was ready to lay down his life. jt On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:00:05 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Spoken as if there were no opposing opinions within scripture. Christ puts it this way Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God. jd Christianity is not a polite Debate society with all creeds given equal sway. Christianity is not concerned with egalitarian exchage of ideas with worldviews that are in error.. Christianity is not a hugfest The Bible uses Military imagery, when talking of the "good Fight of faith"! -- Kevin Deegan From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jude 1 it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Christianity is not a polite Debate society with all creeds given equal sway. Christianity is not concerned with egalitarian exchage of ideas with worldviews that are in error.. Christianity is not a hugfest The Bible uses Military imagery, when talking of the "good Fight of faith"! 2 CO 10 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience Error is always offended by Truth, Error is easily offended by truth, Truth is not hate. Truth by definition is not tolerant of error Now you can't have it both ways You are either tolerant of all "Creeds"Or you are the "one true church", and all others are an abomination Which is it? To tolerate everything is too teach nothing Contend: The act or an instance of striving in controversy or debate. See Synonyms at discord. A striving to win in competition; rivalry: The teams met in fierce contention for first place. An assertion put forward in argument. Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes? __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
Et al -- I do believe the Pragmatic Prince of the Postulated Premise (love) has presented a most passionate and perfeced reply. Nails on my man !! Best reply of the new year. Pastor Smithson -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:41:00 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: *myth* (both the Military & its imagery are 'carnal', therefore, unlike the [real] you, the bible is anti-militaristic) On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:42:23 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: *The Bible uses Military imagery,.* || ..2 CO 10 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
Christianity is not a polite Debate society with all creeds given equal sway. Christianity is not concerned with egalitarian exchage of ideas with worldviews that are in error.. Christianity is not a hugfest The Bible uses Military imagery, when talking of the "good Fight of faith"! -- Kevin Deegan Spoken as if there were no opposing opinions within scripture. Christ puts it this way Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the sons of God. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jude 1 it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Christianity is not a polite Debate society with all creeds given equal sway. Christianity is not concerned with egalitarian exchage of ideas with worldviews that are in error.. Christianity is not a hugfest The Bible uses Military imagery, when talking of the "good Fight of faith"! 2 CO 10 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience Error is always offended by Truth, Error is easily offended by truth, Truth is not hate. Truth by definition is not tolerant of error Now you can't have it both ways You are either tolerant of all "Creeds"Or you are the "one true church", and all others are an abomination Which is it? To tolerate everything is too teach nothing Contend: The act or an instance of striving in controversy or debate. See Synonyms at discord. A striving to win in competition; rivalry: The teams met in fierce contention for first place. An assertion put forward in argument. Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes? __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Deeply Held Beliefs
OOPS! just noticed the SUBJECT so I reposted & changed DAVEH: I was wondering when somebody would bring that up! Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? DAVEH: I don't recall him attacking my beliefs. He merely judged me a a Pagan and then posted it as a fact, which seems to be a personal attack. It is an inaccurate judgment, and as it was presented it represents a false accusation..does it not meet the definition of the ad-hom rule of TT? Kevin Deegan wrote: OOPS! just noticed the SUBJECT so I reposted & changed Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You DaveH are a Pagan. DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian DAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation? You DaveH are a Pagan. DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize. he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ DAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore? Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack DAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes? state a petition to impeach me DAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own. I am not Judge Dean DAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore? by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking DAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you. I will have to go to the Moderator DAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES? DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin...I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare th at by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply: So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teach ing of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this! Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES? D ave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups? DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boya nd I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n? Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you tr
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
..'The One enthroned in heaven laughs' <--basically present tense language hundreds of years before the NT/Lukan histories of JCs reign, meaning that mighty, mainly male militarism has always been a joke to Bible Authors On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:34:51 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The..rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One. "Let us break their chains," they say, ..The One enthroned in heaven laughs... (Ps 2) On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:15:21 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] re-writes: ..biblically, some 'weapons' of some 'warfare' sponsored by God ain't ritually 'militaristic' which has to do with why no militaries stand a chance, blind as bats to What..they're 'fighting' (e.g., vs. Gabriel, et. al.) ||
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
I can not discern Deans meaning I guess you would have to ask him. Should I be responsible for everyone elses beliefs now? DAVEH: You seemed to have little hesitation claiming to know what I believe, so why you would feign not understanding Dean's meaning seems strange, since you fellas are on the same side of the fence. Again I have no desire to see you depart from TT. DAVEH: Yes, you've said that beforethank you. As I remember, it was Dean who felt that I should not be given ground here on which to stand. In the past, he has made it clear that I should be jettisoned from TT. I do not recall you making any such comments though. You are always looking for "common ground" I think I can agree with the following: DAVEH: I find that interesting. I did not think you would see it quite the same way as OP stated it. Hm.I learn something every day! Kevin Deegan wrote: DAVEH: Thanx Kevin. Hmmm...what do you think Judge Dean meant by his comment.I guess I will Get DavH off you back? His below explanation lacks logical credibility, IMO. I don't have my crystal ball handy so I can not discern Deans meaning I guess you would have to ask him. Should I be responsible for everyone elses beliefs now? Any guess from me would be just that. Do you want me to guess, I can do that if you want. Again I have no desire to see you depart from TT. Obviously I do not agree with your belief system and am vocal about it as I should be. Someone else put it this way: "If I should hear a man advocate the erroneous principles he had imbibed through education, and oppose those principles, some might imagine that I opposed to that man, when I am opposed to every evil and erroneous principle he advances." - Brigham Young, - Journal of Discourses 7:191 You are always looking for "common ground" I think I can agree with the following: " If we cannot convince you by reason nor by the word of God that your religion is wrong, we will not persecute you, but will sustain you in the privileges, guaranteed in the Great Charter of American Liberty; we ask from you the generosity - protect us in the exercises of our religious rights - convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments. or by the word of God, and we will ever be grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds." - Orson Pratt, Th e Seer, p. 15-16 The Bible says: Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I do not want you gone Dave. DAVEH: Thanx Kevin. Hmmm...what do you think Judge Dean meant by his comment.I guess I will Get DavH off you back? His below explanation lacks logical credibility, IMO. I do not complain about you DAVEH: From Dean's previous comment.I guess I will Get DavH off you back... it seemed as though the Judge was implying you were bothered by my presence on TT. If that is not the case, I appreciate the clarification. You have no problem with the draconian rules of your leaders? DAVEH: Do you have any problems with the draconian rules of the Bible, Kevin? The Lord gave the Law, and how well we keep it is somewhat a measure of our love for him. Do you see it the same way, Kevin? Kevin Deegan wrote: I do not want you gone Dave. Please don't misrepresent me I have never said or implied such I am not a pope protestant or potentate! Banishment and worse is a Popish - Protestant distinctive! This is in their belief system I have told you before I am not of the RC nor their offspring the protestants! I do not chase people down the street come over here Mormon. Repent or else I will... I will preach but if you are offended plug you ears and avert youe eyes as I have previouslt stated on this forum The Supreme court has said the same. I believe in freedom of speech AND conscience. I have no desire to enforce my beliefs on you. I have a desire as the scriptures speak, that God will give you a heart of flesh and eternal life. I do not complain about you I hardly know you! I am agains t certain beliefs, that does not mean we could not be friends and still disagree STRONGLY. Ask my LDS friends O I left out POTENTATES such as Hinckley The thinking has been done according to your leaders ya know. You have no problem with the draconian rules of your leaders? Dean Moo re <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:
Re: [TruthTalk] Kinder Gentler God would not call names - pagan ?????
OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan! DAVEH: OK Kevinspecifically in what way do draw that conclusion? What is it that you think I believe that qualifies as a pagan belief? First, you may want to define what you think pagan means so we will have a common starting point. Kevin Deegan wrote: "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan" For the sake of Lance (IYO) OK let me chime in I will restate it for Dean DH's BELIEFS are Pagan! So does the BIBLE practice ADHOMS? AND name names! Sop let me get this straight Paul should NOT have said: Acts 13 Elymas the sorcerer ... PAUL SAYS: And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? SHOULD BE And said, O full of all subtilty beliefs and all beliefs of mischief, thou child with beliefs of the devil, thou believing against all righteousness, wilt thou not cease believing to pervert the right ways of the Lord? (what VERSION would this be? ) Since Paul was FULL of the Holy Ghost (IMO VS 9) when he said this does that mean God called Elymas A DEVIL? Is God ADHOM? Did God call him a PERVERT? Just wonderin... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You DaveH are a Pagan. DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? KD DH can make the point but let me chime in here, as well. "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan>" Those who have eyes, let them see, Lord. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You DaveH are a Pagan. DAVEH: ; I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian DAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation? You DaveH are a Pagan. DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize. he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ DAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore? Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack DAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes? state a petition to impeach me DAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own. I am not Judge Dean DAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore? by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking DAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you. I will have to go to the Moderator DAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implyin g Dean called you such NAMES? DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!!
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
..Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The..rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One. "Let us break their chains," they say, ..The One enthroned in heaven laughs... (Ps 2) On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:15:21 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] re-writes: ..biblically, some 'weapons' of some 'warfare' sponsored by God ain't ritually 'militaristic' which has to do with why no militaries stand a chance, blind as bats to What..they're 'fighting' (e.g., vs. Gabriel, et. al.) ||
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
Guilt? What would give you such thoughts? DAVEH: Is that not one of the possibilities to consider when a person seems seems sensitive to an issue? I can't imagine DavidM being sensitive to what I said about SPers, yet you seemed to consider my comment an ad-hom.why? Your name wasn't mentioned. Not even was a specific action mentioned. Yet it appeared as though you identified with something underlying. Makes me wonder what makes you tick, KevinDo you really think my speculative comment constitutes an ad-hom? If sospecifically to whom is the ad-hom against? Kevin Deegan wrote: Guilt? What would give you such thoughts? Titus Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Notice it is persons that are defiled not their thoughts/beliefs. It is people that are cast into HELL not their beliefs! Do you feel comfortable with SPers who do such, or use other demeaning tactics such as waving underwear? Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. Jesus taught that those that are offended have no root in themselves MT 13:21 and can not endure. Are you saying Mormons are ABOVE REPROACH? Pr 15:10 Correction i s grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. 2 Tim 4:2-4 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 1 Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Pr 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love. We are told in the Book of Jude to contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? Lu 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division Pr 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them Jn 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes? DAVEH: Naw.It's just an observation, Kevin. Why do think it is an ad-hom? Did you feel a twinge of guilt when reading it? I would be very surprised if a SPers such as I imagine DavidM to be would fee guilty, as I can't imagine him using simular tactics. But if it struck a sensitive nerve with youwell, I suppose I wouldn't be surprised. However Kevin, I really don't know you very well. Do you feel comfortable with SPers who do such, or use other demeaning tactics such as waving underwear? Kevin Deegan wrote: Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers. WHAT are you implying DH? Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That wasn't not done out of respect. DAVEH: Hmm...Do you have any respect for Mormons, Dean? Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers. Would a Mormon High Priest do such? DAVEH: None that I know would do such. Hmmm a third time..Perhaps he was a SPer claiming to be MHP. If he was indeed a true Mormon, I believe his actions were inappropriate, and I will apologize to you in his behalf. However, I disl ike drawing conclusions without hearing the his side of the story. Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. DAVEH: That's a mistake I've seen other moderators use as an excuse for improper behavior. Do you believe that separating Judge Dean from Judge More absolves you from responsible behavior? If Judge Dean posts an ad-hom, would not be reasonable to expect Judge More admonish him? If not, then would Judge More be practicing a double standard? Perhaps I do have trouble separating the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore.when I hear you say something to the effect.. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention I pretty much hear Judge More's voice, despite your claim that it is Judge Dean's lips that are moving. I can't see which side of the mouth you are speaking from, Judge Dean. I can only read your words and
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
..biblically, some 'weapons' of some 'warfare' sponsored by God ain't ritually 'militaristic' which has to do with why no militaries stand a chance, e.g., vs. Gabriel, et. al., blind as bats to What they think they're 'fighting' On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:55:46 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..that one is intensely militaristic does not mean the bible is that way On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:46:41 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:41:00 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: *myth* (both the Military & its imagery are 'carnal', therefore, unlike the [real] you, the bible is anti-militaristic) On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:42:23 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: *The Bible uses Military imagery,.* || ..2 CO 10 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
..that one is intensely militaristic does not mean the bible is that way On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:46:41 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:41:00 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: *myth* (both the Military & its imagery are 'carnal', therefore, unlike the [real] you, the bible is anti-militaristic) On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:42:23 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: *The Bible uses Military imagery,.* || ..2 CO 10 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 20:41:00 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: *myth* (both the Military & its imagery are 'carnal', therefore, unlike the [real] you, the bible is anti-militaristic) On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:42:23 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: *The Bible uses Military imagery,.* || ..2 CO 10 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
*myth* (both the Military & its imagery are 'carnal', therefore, unlike the you, the bible is anti-militaristic) On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:42:23 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: *The Bible uses Military imagery,.* || ..2 CO 10 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Contend for the Faith ONCE DELIVERED
Jude 1 it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Christianity is not a polite Debate society with all creeds given equal sway. Christianity is not concerned with egalitarian exchage of ideas with worldviews that are in error.. Christianity is not a hugfest The Bible uses Military imagery, when talking of the "good Fight of faith"! 2 CO 10 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience Error is always offended by Truth, Error is easily offended by truth, Truth is not hate. Truth by definition is not tolerant of error Now you can't have it both ways You are either tolerant of all "Creeds"Or you are the "one true church", and all others are an abomination Which is it? To tolerate everything is too teach nothing Contend: The act or an instance of striving in controversy or debate. See Synonyms at discord. A striving to win in competition; rivalry: The teams met in fierce contention for first place. An assertion put forward in argument. Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes?__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
Guilt? What would give you such thoughts? Titus Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Notice it is persons that are defiled not their thoughts/beliefs. It is people that are cast into HELL not their beliefs! Do you feel comfortable with SPers who do such, or use other demeaning tactics such as waving underwear? Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. Jesus taught that those that are offended have no root in themselves MT 13:21 and can not endure. Are you saying Mormons are ABOVE REPROACH? Pr 15:10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die. 2 Tim 4:2-4 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 1 Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Pr 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love. We are told in the Book of Jude to contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? Lu 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division Pr 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them Jn 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes?DAVEH: Naw.It's just an observation, Kevin. Why do think it is an ad-hom? Did you feel a twinge of guilt when reading it? I would be very surprised if a SPers such as I imagine DavidM to be would fee guilty, as I can't imagine him using simular tactics. But if it struck a sensitive nerve with youwell, I suppose I wouldn't be surprised. However Kevin, I really don't know you very well. Do you feel comfortable with SPers who do such, or use other demeaning tactics such as waving underwear?Kevin Deegan wrote: Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH?DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers. WHAT are you implying DH? Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That wasn't not done out of respect. DAVEH: Hmm...Do you have any respect for Mormons, Dean?Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH?DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers.Would a Mormon High Priest do such?DAVEH: None that I know would do such. Hmmm a third time..Perhaps he was a SPer claiming to be MHP. If he was indeed a true Mormon, I believe his actions were inappropriate, and I will apologize to you in his behalf. However, I dislike drawing conclusions without hearing the his side of the story.Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore.DAVEH: That's a mistake I've seen other moderators use as an excuse for improper behavior. Do you believe that separating Judge Dean from Judge More absolves you from responsible behavior? If Judge Dean posts an ad-hom, would not be reasonable to expect Judge More admonish him? If not, then would Judge More be practicing a double standard? Perhaps I do have trouble separating the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore.when I hear you say something to the effect..Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attentionI pretty much hear Judge More's voice, despite your claim that it is Judge Dean's lips that are moving. I can't see which side of the mouth you are speaking from, Judge Dean. I can only read your words and interpret them a s coming from one who intends to take no prisoners.All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. DAVEH: You are the one who called me a pagan, Judge Dean. If you wish to refuse to apologize for making that ad-hom remark, and if Judge Moore does not call you on the carpet for posting blatant ad-homs, then would Judge Moore be justified in giving me the boot if I merely referred to Judge Dean's ___(fill in the blank) practices? Your take no prisoners comment seems to imply TT is not big enough for both of us, Judge Dean. Is that where you want to go with this? gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so.DAVEH: Thank you for that measure of respect, Dean. cd: That wasn't not done out of respect. I just don't like being set up/used by
Re: [TruthTalk] Person
Hey you guys, all you do is argue and do put-downs, or so it seems at least. I am giving up TT for a while, since all I have been doing lately is delete, delete, delete! Also, I am changing my web server, so I may be back, but I seriously have to ask myself, "For What?" Been nice arguing with you guys, especially Kevin, and I see he's back, so maybe I will make it back too. Take Care, Blainerb In a message dated 3/9/2006 9:23:47 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Coming from a Master Cryptologist I thought you really enjoyed the cryptic messages passed from within the deep dark caverns of the "community of real crypto believers" Incidently, is Gary the high priest and pinnacle of community communication?Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: May I quote? "This seems to be a real problem for you. All kidding aside would you attempt to help me understand you better on this? Do you believe that one cannot be a believer yet convinced that the right is wrong?" Part 2 Please fill us in on your enjoyment of GT Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I should have know better than to suggest thinking. Shame on me! Do you enjoy saying nothing about something? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Person There you go refering us to your "bibLe" again Why would I not find such import displayed in the HOLY BIBLE? Why do I need to go to those that ( IYO ) may or may not have REAL TRUTH Your philosophy is SELF-REFUTINGLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It is apparent to all that I'm no match for such as Dean, Kevin and, Judy. I'm just not in their league. Therefore.NO, I'm not leaving! I'd only suggest that you look up the discussion on the above as it took place in the history of the 'believing community'. You needn't and, probably won't, agree. It might however, give you some sense of the import attached to it vis a vis Jesus.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes? DAVEH: Naw.It's just an observation, Kevin. Why do think it is an ad-hom? Did you feel a twinge of guilt when reading it? I would be very surprised if a SPers such as I imagine DavidM to be would fee guilty, as I can't imagine him using simular tactics. But if it struck a sensitive nerve with youwell, I suppose I wouldn't be surprised. However Kevin, I really don't know you very well. Do you feel comfortable with SPers who do such, or use other demeaning tactics such as waving underwear? Kevin Deegan wrote: Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers. WHAT are you implying DH? Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That wasn't not done out of respect. DAVEH: Hmm...Do you have any respect for Mormons, Dean? Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers. Would a Mormon High Priest do such? DAVEH: None that I know would do such. Hmmm a third time..Perhaps he was a SPer claiming to be MHP. If he was indeed a true Mormon, I believe his actions were inappropriate, and I will apologize to you in his behalf. However, I dislike drawing conclusions without hearing the his side of the story. Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. DAVEH: That's a mistake I've seen other moderators use as an excuse for improper behavior. Do you believe that separating Judge Dean from Judge More absolves you from responsible behavior? If Judge Dean posts an ad-hom, would not be reasonable to expect Judge More admonish him? If not, then would Judge More be practicing a double standard? Perhaps I do have trouble separating the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore.when I hear you say something to the effect.. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention I pretty much hear Judge More's voice, despite your claim that it is Judge Dean's lips that are moving. I can't see which side of the mouth you are speaking from, Judge Dean. I can only read your words and interpret them a s coming from one who intends to take no prisoners. All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. DAVEH: You are the one who called me a pagan, Judge Dean. If you wish to refuse to apologize for making that ad-hom remark, and if Judge Moore does not call you on the carpet for posting blatant ad-homs, then would Judge Moore be justified in giving me the boot if I merely referred to Judge Dean's ___(fill in the blank) practices? Your take no prisoners comment seems to imply TT is not big enough for both of us, Judge Dean. Is that where you want to go with this? gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. DAVEH: Thank you for that measure of respect, Dean. cd: That wasn't not done out of respect. I just don't like being set up/used by Mormons.He told us that Mormons loved the present Prophet (so-called) more then they loved J. Smith-then gave us the pictures then instructed us to tear them up in front of the Temple. Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? Would a Mormon High Priest do such? I guess I will Get DavH off you back DAVEH: ??? Does that mean you have your finger on the EXECUTE DavH button, Judge Dean? Has Kevin been complaining about me bothering him lately? I don't recall saying anything to him recently that would be disrespectful..But if he wants me gone, it is within your power to carry out his wishes. cd: Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention DAVEH: How considerate of you, Judge Dean! I guess I should fee privileged that you are willing to devote all your attention to me to the exclusion of other TTers. It does seem a bit selfish though.as you seem to want to smoke all the Ad. Hom. grass yourself!!! Just don't inhale though, as you might choke on it.. =-O cd: Sound like you also like a good fight-You admitted to provocking me and I am answering your caslling out and I am standing here Mormon-lets get on with it Pagan. Dean Moore wrote: cd: Ouch:-) Hey I have that picture in mutli's-The High Priest that Ruben hung out (what was his name?)with gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. Kevin I gue ss I will Get DavH off you back for a while as
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 4:42:22 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? No Dean, not chapter but, an entire book. Thessalonians? cd: OK you go first Lance-and I am right behind you. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:48 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 5:34:32 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? It'd appear that we do all speak English, Dean. Now, as everyone else has taken, IMO a rather unconvincing, run at the fg, may I ask YOU, Dean...Rather than proof-texting (the exceptions having been Bill, David and John), are you able to open say the gospel of John or the book of Ephesians and, thereafter explain it in it's entirety without difficulty for either yourself or any believer? If yes then, please demonstrate. If no then, qualify your statement (what you say) in line with what you can actually do. cd: Sure Chapter are we speaking of? Fire away. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 18:28 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 5:54:36 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? THE truth to read MY truth or, truth as I interpret it. How I read the words that are spoken-We all do speak English right? - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 18:13 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Moderator: No-The truth is not Ad. Hom attacks if one can prove his point to a reasonable conclusion(whose conclusion? Why mine decision of course)-Please explanation after my coming chastisement from David.But don't jump the gun and attack me as he seems to be hesitating(maybe he found love for me after all.)-and if wrong you will still be dealing with a moderator-that will not take any crap:-) - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/5/2006 12:52:42 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DAVEH: Dean, does this not qualify as an ad-hom?Dean Moore wrote: cd: or lose all creditability as Lance had done in my opinion of this matter. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 4:37:44 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? 1. 'Those principles', Dean? Which? 2. I don't mind YOU being moderator, Dean. You do, IMO, change horses in midstream a lot but, I can adjust. 3. I don't think of you as 'mean' Kevin. I believe you're doing the best with what you've got. What more can one ask of one? 4. As to 'refusing so much of the Bible' Dean, I'm attempting to be patient with someone who misinterprets so much of it yet, moderates TT. cd: You disagree with what I teach and offer no other intrepretion-I don't know but it does seem strange to me Lance-something is wrong with that. thanks for the, ATY, beneficient thoughts.. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:36 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 5:23:10 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? DH:TT has a NEW POPE! You're just going to have to adjust. IMO your mystification re:SP types ain't a mystery. Preach the (their) gospel (their doctrine) by any means whatsoever. As they see it the end justifies the means. Though you and I are most assuredly not of one mind as to Jesus yet, we are seen as occupying the same camp. That camp is the camp of the lost/damned/bound for hell. I do see why they do what they do. This is the same sort of logic employed by their commander in chief over the Middle East. cd: But Lance you said that it was fair earlier to moderate using those principles-and even earlier that that you said that you were glad I was moderator-now only hatred exists? What happened? Pope is a little much-How about Bishop Moderator-or better yet Moderator Bishop-nay.. still doesn't work..O' well we can keep trying ?The lost comments are correct Lance-This is not meant to be mean to you but to help you understand-One cannot refuse as much of the Bible as you do and be one of God's-it doesn't work that way Lance-I would much rather say this now and get you to understand the principle behind my words than to be there when God say's "depart from me". At that time it will then be too late-I fear that will happen to you. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 02:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? to clear the confusion one should be able to prove their charge they make against others. DAVEH: That's what I asked you to do when you made a false accusation about me (condoning violence) a few months back. Your response was that you didn't know how to use the archives, and that is was my responsibility to prove that I didn't say something that I didn't say. Which is logically illogical.So what is you better idea?DAVEH: Practice what you preach.By the way I can change the rules if there is good reason to do so-but you cannot.DAVEH: Ahhh..May I assume this is your perception of fairness?!?!?! When I joined TT, it was proudly proclaimed there was only one rule in TT. It seems several moderators have put that fallacy to rest.you show no hesita tion provoking me-Why is that?DAVEH: I'm not sure, Dean. I find SPers to be cut from a different bolt of cloth. It seems like some SPers live in a different world, where they are in constant battle with everybody, including some that at first appear to be on their side of the fence. Other than the few Spers I've found on TT, I really don't have much experience with them, so I find how they think and operate to be rather interesting. (e.g., Waving underwear in the faces of those they want to convert.) To me it seems such a strange way to sell a product, so to speak. Yet some SPers seem (from my perspective) to lack a measure of ___(I'll leave it for the reader to fill in the word), which to me seems at odds with their mission statement. So I've got to wonder what makes them tickjust what is it that makes SPers the way they are. I don't know if that makes much sense, Dean. It's late and I suppose I'm just rambling onwith the way things are going He should be able to read it here in a short amount of time.DAVEH: ??? What's that mean, Dean? Are you going to invite the Bishop of TT to return? The truth is not Ad. Hom attacks if one can prove his point to a reasonable conclusion(whose conclusion? Why mine decision of course)DAVEH: Did the rules change, Dean? Are the rules being modified on the fly to suit the needs of the moderator??? As a moderator, is that what you consider to be fair? Moderator: No, DaveH but there are many levels of Ad. Hom attacking going on here so to clear the confusion one should be able to prove their charge they make against others. One should not knock an idea unless one can offer a better one or lose credibility-So what is
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] economic trinity?
The economic Trinity? Are they accountants iz VICAR Lances article is by: "Giles is vicar of St. Michael's Church "Paul D. Molnar, professorof systematic theology, St. John's University SAINT John, SAINT MICHAEL? More POPES Protestants and Potentates! "[W]e hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." --POPE LEO XIII "...I will be like the most High." LUCIFER & MORMONS, ISAIAH 14:14 VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis] ...a substitute in office. Webster's 1828 Dictionary "For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED." --CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882 "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)." --POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302 "I know that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, that this is the Gospel of salvation, and if you do not believe it you will be damned, every one of you" (Journal of Discourses 4:298, March 29, 1857). "From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are -- I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent" (Journal of Discourses 7:289). PRAISE TO THE MAN!"Few Mormons today can grasp the polarizing charisma of their founding prophet. Some may feel uncomfortable when confronted with the full scope of Joseph Smith's activities as youthful mystic, treasure-seeker, visionary, a loving husband who deceived his wife regarding about forty of his polygamous marriages, a man for whom friendship and loyalty meant everything but who provoked disaffection by 'testing' the loyalty of his devoted associates, an anti-Mason who became a Master Mason, church president who physically assaulted both Mormons and non-Mormons for insulting him, (nothing new there like LDS JOE - like son) a devoted father who loved to care for his own children and those of others, temperance leader and social drinker, Bible revisionist and esoteric philosopher, city planner, pacifist and commander-in-chief, student of Hebrew and Egyptology, bank president, jail escapee, healer, land speculator, mayor, judge and fugitive from justice, guarantor of religious freedom but limiter of freedom of speech and press, preacher and street-wrestler, polygamist and advocate of women's rights, husband of other men's wives, a declared bankrupt who was the trustee-in-trust of church finances, political horse-trader, U.S. presidential candidate, abolitionist, theocratic king, inciter to riot, and unwilling martyr." The Mormon Hierarchy Origins of Power (pp.261-262), Quinn PORTIONS OF the LDS HYMN "The Seer, Joseph the Seer." "The Seer, the Seer, Joseph, the Seer! . . . I love to dwell on his memory dear; The chosen of God and the friend of man, He brought the priesthood back again; He gazed on the past and the future, too, . . . And opened the heavenly world to view." "His equal now cannot be found, By searching the wide world around. With Gods he soared in the realms of day, And men he taught the heavenly way.""The saints, the saints, his only pride! For them he lived, for them he died! Their joys were his, their sorrows too, He loved the saints, he loved Nauvoo. Unchanged in death, with a Savior's love, He pleads their cause in the courts above." PORTIONS of "Praise to the Man" W.W. Phelps hymn #27 in the LDS hymnbook: "Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah! Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer. Kings shall extol him, and nations revere. Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr; Honored and blest be his ever great name! Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heav'n, while the earth lauds his fame. "Great is his glory and endless his priesthood. Ever and ever the keys he will hold. Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old. "Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man. Wake up the world for the conflict of justice. Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again." "Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain. Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again." When do Christians ever sing such about Paul or Peter?Psalm 9:11 Sing praises to the LORD, who dwells in Zion! Declare His deeds among the people.Psalm 59:17 To You, O my Strength, I will sing praises; For God is my defense, My God of mercy. Joe died for the LDS and ASCENDED to heaven to Plead their cause! If that is not PAGAN I know not what! http://speeches.byu.edu/download.phphttp://speeches.
[TruthTalk] Moderator
Moderator: Gary I am still waiting for your proof that Judy is a liar if not it is Ad. Hom and an apology is in order or 3 days suspension. - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 1:39:03 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. ..you realize the matron sf's morality is much more mated to j-dams than g-dams, Bro--she's known t'be Xtremely kNowledgable about the sensitivities & nuances of our newcuular nomenclature On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:29:47 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..i bet the matron of the shields family prefers j to g; like the j in jumbo is much more palatable than the g in gumbo (ever heard of mumbo gumbo, Bro? :) On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:23:44 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..in originality? On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:16:16 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..who put the g in gibberish? On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 21:31:13 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: enlighten the matron of the shields family to what yer g word iz, Bro On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:20:44 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Mumbo jumbo. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin DeeganSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:20 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. Mainly gibberish with an M||
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 7:06:33 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* If there's one thing the two 'ranters' would never precipitate from me, it'd be tears, Dean. From someone who quotes 1 Thess 4:13 and, thereafter says 'case closed', I fear proof, Dean, is a concept largely unknown to you. cd: From past experiences I believe it is conceivable that you would side with Satan himself if he took a stance against me-come to think about it- I thing this may already have happened. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 07:00 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 6:43:01 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose -ModeratorcommentADHOM* NO, NO, NO! YOUR TRUTH, DEAN, is perceived by YOU absent any ad hom component. I'm with DH on this one as it (YOUR TRUTH - NOT ALWAYS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE TRUTH) is intrinsically ad hom. (IMO of course) cd:I wouldn't expect you to be on any other side Lance.I have requested that Moderator - Judge Moore intervene on this issue Lance.But if you want to speak of fairness why didn't you have to prove you point by calling Kevin names and then later Kevin had to prove his point for calling you a false Prophet?Should I get the Judge Moore to make you prove your point for each one of the names you called Kevin?So stop your crying. - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:30 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:08:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
DAVEH: Thanx Kevin. Hmmm...what do you think Judge Dean meant by his comment.I guess I will Get DavH off you back? His below explanation lacks logical credibility, IMO. I don't have my crystal ball handy so I can not discern Deans meaning I guess you would have to ask him. Should I be responsible for everyone elses beliefs now? Any guess from me would be just that. Do you want me to guess, I can do that if you want. Again I have no desire to see you depart from TT. Obviously I do not agree with your belief system and am vocal about it as I should be. Someone else put it this way: "If I should hear a man advocate the erroneous principles he had imbibed through education, and oppose those principles, some might imagine that I opposed to that man, when I am opposed to every evil and erroneous principle he advances." - Brigham Young, - Journal of Discourses 7:191 You are always looking for "common ground" I think I can agree with the following: " If we cannot convince you by reason nor by the word of God that your religion is wrong, we will not persecute you, but will sustain you in the privileges, guaranteed in the Great Charter of American Liberty; we ask from you the generosity - protect us in the exercises of our religious rights - convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments. or by the word of God, and we will ever be grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds." - Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 15-16 The Bible says: Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I do not want you gone Dave.DAVEH: Thanx Kevin. Hmmm...what do you think Judge Dean meant by his comment.I guess I will Get DavH off you back? His below explanation lacks logical credibility, IMO.I do not complain about youDAVEH: From Dean's previous comment.I guess I will Get DavH off you back... it seemed as though the Judge was implying you were bothered by my presence on TT. If that is not the case, I appreciate the clarification.You have no problem with the draconian rules of your leaders?DAVEH: Do you have any problems with the draconian rules of the Bible, Kevin? The Lord gave the Law, and how well we keep it is somewhat a measure of our love for him. Do you see it the same way, Kevin?Kevin Deegan wrote: I do not want you gone Dave. Please don't misrepresent me I have never said or implied such I am not a pope protestant or potentate! Banishment and worse is a Popish - Protestant distinctive! This is in their belief system I have told you before I am not of the RC nor their offspring the protestants! I do not chase people down the street come over here Mormon. Repent or else I will... I will preach but if you are offended plug you ears and avert youe eyes as I have previouslt stated on this forum The Supreme court has said the same. I believe in freedom of speech AND conscience. I have no desire to enforce my beliefs on you. I have a desire as the scriptures speak, that God will give you a heart of flesh and eternal life. I do not complain about you I hardly know you! I am agains t certain beliefs, that does not mean we could not be friends and still disagree STRONGLY. Ask my LDS friends O I left out POTENTATES such as Hinckley The thinking has been done according to your leaders ya know. You have no problem with the draconian rules of your leaders? Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:58:51 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinngave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so.DAVEH: Thank you for that measure of respect, Dean. cd: That wasn't not done out of respect. I just don't like being set up/used by Mormons.He told us that Mormons loved the present Prophet (so-called) more then they loved J. Smith-then gave us the pictures then instructed us to tear them up in front of the Temple. Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? Would a Mormon High Priest do such?I guess I will Get DavH off you backDAVEH: ??? Does that mean you have your finger on the EXECUTE DavH button, Judge Dean? Has Kevin been complaining about me bothering him lately? I don't recall saying anything to him recently that would be disrespectful..But if he wants me gone, it is within your power to carry out his wishes. cd: Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attentionDAVEH: How considerate of you, Judge Dean! I guess I shoul
Re: [TruthTalk] DaveH is a pagan ?????
You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? KD DH can make the point but let me chime in here, as well. "You .. are a pagan" is not the same as "Your beliefs are pagan>" Those who have eyes, let them see, Lord. jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it be
Re: [TruthTalk] Hidden in Christ
Well, if there are no fundies on this site, there should be no angst at my comments. So , we are all at peace with one another and all is well. As a father, I will do all possible to prevent my children from adopting the attitudes of exclusiveness and judgmentalism that is so prevelant in the conservative/fundy community - a community, by the way, of which I am a member. AND, I have no intention of ever actually leaving that community. I can do much for the cause of Christ by remaining in the community that has been a life-time trying to get me gone. I ain't leaving. I fully intend on making as many ambassadors for Christ as possible. Christ prayed for unity ... his very last words .. and I intend on doing what I can to make that happen. Join me in this struggle and your life may suddenly become full, if it is not already !! jd -- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "I contrasted that with what many fundies believe" JD is back with GUNS BLAZING calling names, just ITCHIN FUR eh FIGHT. Too bad their are no "fUNDIES" here, we could sit back and watch the FUR FLY![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just talked to my 38 year old lawyer/state wrestling champ son -- on the phone. He is presenting a song and a lesson to one of the Unity Churches in Seattle, this weekend. He is not a professional speaker although he is very much a professional type guy. He has titled his lesson "Man's failure and God success." It is so good to be able to talk to him about something of substance in relation to this lesson he is considering. I pointed him to Col 1:19-23 and encouraged him to see that we are not pure, blameless and above reproach because of what we do -- ever. Just can't or will not be that consistent. (I have yet to meet the man or woman who proves this understanding to be wrong.) But we are holy, blameless and above reproach IN Christ -- a truth that carries water only because of our position in Christ. I mean, that is what the text says. I c ontrasted that with what many fundies believe -- that the disciple is saved from hell fire rather than being saved from all that comes his way, the work of the Accuser, to tie him to failure and disappointment. I believe that many are as talented as some, the difference being that the talent is closer to the top , for some others having to work harder. At the end of the day, success is as great for the many as for the some, it just didn't come as easy. Anyway, it will be interesting to see just what he says . The good thing about this is that it gives me an opportunity to talk to him about the truine God and all that He has accomplished in Christ. Jd __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH?DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers. WHAT are you implying DH? Does this come close to a NON BLATANT AD HOM in your eyes?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: That wasn't not done out of respect. DAVEH: Hmm...Do you have any respect for Mormons, Dean?Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH?DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers.Would a Mormon High Priest do such?DAVEH: None that I know would do such. Hmmm a third time..Perhaps he was a SPer claiming to be MHP. If he was indeed a true Mormon, I believe his actions were inappropriate, and I will apologize to you in his behalf. However, I dislike drawing conclusions without hearing the his side of the story.Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore.DAVEH: That's a mistake I've seen other moderators use as an excuse for improper behavior. Do you believe that separating Judge Dean from Judge More absolves you from responsible behavior? If Judge Dean posts an ad-hom, would not be reasonable to expect Judge More admonish him? If not, then would Judge More be practicing a double standard? Perhaps I do have trouble separating the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore.when I hear you say something to the effect..Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attentionI pretty much hear Judge More's voice, despite your claim that it is Judge Dean's lips that are moving. I can't see which side of the mouth you are speaking from, Judge Dean. I can only read your words and interpret them as coming from one who intends to take no prisoners.All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. DAVEH: You are the one who called me a pagan, Judge Dean. If you wish to refuse to apologize for making that ad-hom remark, and if Judge Moore does not call you on the carpet for posting blatant ad-homs, then would Judge Moore be justified in giving me the boot if I merely referred to Judge Dean's ___(fill in the blank) practices? Your take no prisoners comment seems to imply TT is not big enough for both of us, Judge Dean. Is that where you want to go with this? gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so.DAVEH: Thank you for that measure of respect, Dean. cd: That wasn't not done out of respect. I just don't like being set up/used by Mormons.He told us that Mormons loved the present Prophet (so-called) more then they loved J. Smith-then gave us the pictures then instructed us to tear them up in front of the Temple. Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? Would a Mormon High Priest do such?I guess I will Get DavH off you backDAVEH: ??? Does that mean you have your finger on the EXECUTE DavH button, Judge Dean? Has Kevin been complaining about me bothering him lately? I don't recall saying anything to him recently that would be disrespectful..But if he wants me gone, it is within your power to carry out his wishes. cd: Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attentionDAVEH: How considerate of you, Judge Dean! I guess I should fee privileged that you are willing to devote all your attention to me to the exclusion of other TTers. It does seem a bit selfish though.as you seem to want to smoke all the Ad. Hom. grass yourself!!! Just don't inhale though, as you might choke on it.. =-O cd: Sound like you also like a good fight-You admitted to provocking me and I am answering your caslling out and I am standing here Mormon-lets get on with it Pagan.Dean Moore wrote: cd: Ouch:-) Hey I have that picture in mutli's-The High Priest that Ruben hung out (what was his name?)with gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. Kevin I guess I will Get DavH off you back for a while as soon as David shows of-or better yet I might as well get stated on that:-)So I will be busy for a while-Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
Re: [TruthTalk] Deeply Held Beliefs
OOPS! just noticed the SUBJECT so I reposted & changedKevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you.Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin...I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM*The latter.- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 09:17 Subject: Re: [Trut
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom Why is attacking your genuinely held beliefs an attack on your person? Seriously; can you expound? Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not wish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you.Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM*The latter.- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* This is why I call you UNREGENER
Re: [TruthTalk] Hidden in Christ
"I contrasted that with what many fundies believe" JD is back with GUNS BLAZING calling names, just ITCHIN FUR eh FIGHT. Too bad their are no "fUNDIES" here, we could sit back and watch the FUR FLY![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just talked to my 38 year old lawyer/state wrestling champ son -- on the phone. He is presenting a song and a lesson to one of the Unity Churches in Seattle, this weekend. He is not a professional speaker although he is very much a professional type guy. He has titled his lesson "Man's failure and God success." It is so good to be able to talk to him about something of substance in relation to this lesson he is considering. I pointed him to Col 1:19-23 and encouraged him to see that we are not pure, blameless and above reproach because of what we do -- ever. Just can't or will not be that consistent. (I have yet to meet the man or woman who proves this understanding to be wrong.) But we are holy, blameless and above reproach IN Christ -- a truth that carries water only because of our position in Christ. I mean, that is what the text says. I contrasted that with what many fundies believe -- that the disciple is saved from hell fire rather than being saved from all that comes his way, the work of the Accuser, to tie him to failure and disappointment. I believe that many are as talented as some, the difference being that the talent is closer to the top , for some others having to work harder. At the end of the day, success is as great for the many as for the some, it just didn't come as easy. Anyway, it will be interesting to see just what he says . The good thing about this is that it gives me an opportunity to talk to him about the truine God and all that He has accomplished in Christ. Jd__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[TruthTalk] Responding to Moderator Comments
Dear TruthTalk list members: If you see a post that has Moderator Comment or something similar, please do not reply to that post to the list. If you want to comment on it to the moderator, do so off list. If you think it appropriate to courtesy copy me or other TruthTalk members, please do so. David Miller
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Why not? You seem to expect answers to your frequent questions Lance Do you have a reason - or just being contrary?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I won't BE answering you on this, Judy. From: Judy Taylor You still haven't answered my query ... What does "teachable" look like to you? or How do you - Lance Muir determine whether or not one is "teachable?" On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:13:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 1. I DO NOT BELIEVE that none on TT is teachable! 2. 'personal brand of humility'? NO! From: Judy Taylor I like what Iz says also Lance; but I am curious about your definition since you are constantly making public note of the fact that noone who differs from you on TT is "teachable" I'd appreciate hearing it from you - not DM, BT, JS, Caroline, Debie or Slade, especially since you have been so critical of DM and accuse him of being dense or thick or something like this. IMO BT has nothing to teach others on this subject until he begins to demonstrate some of it in his own life and this applies to others on your list also. Why do you never respond to questions and \always seem to defer them to someone else. Is this your own personal brand of humility? On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:00:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: One could not but AMEN that, Iz. Well said. From: ShieldsFamily Being teachable is a state of heart. A lack of pride. A humility. A brokenness. Eagerness to repent. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirIt is not necessary, Judy. DM, BT, JS, Caroline, Debbie & Slade have all attempted to do so, unsuccessfully. I perceive each to be superior to me so.. From: Judy Taylor Can you describe what you call "being teachable" looks like for us Lance? On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:33:12 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is a rather large distinction between agreeing with you Kevin, and being teachable. From: Kevin Deegan Your not teachableLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Did you send your kids to SS? Do you have no evangelistic mtgs where you are? Do some in attendance at either ever get converted? Do you have other names you prefer over 'conversion', Kevin. That you Kevin, believe yourself 'fully known (Paul's) doctrine' I've no doubt. I'd recommend to the moderator that we all take a hiatus from writing and, just let you teach us. From: Kevin Deegan Paul said: But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery BTW what is wrong with preaching Jesus Christ? or should we preach SS & Co
Re: [TruthTalk] Hidden in Christ
Ditto. -- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Always good to see a 'person' such as yourself on TT, Bishop! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 13:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hidden in Christ Just talked to my 38 year old lawyer/state wrestling champ son -- on the phone. He is presenting a song and a lesson to one of the Unity Churches in Seattle, this weekend. He is not a professional speaker although he is very much a professional type guy. He has titled his lesson "Man's failure and God success." It is so good to be able to talk to him about something of substance in relation to this lesson he is considering. I pointed him to Col 1:19-23 and encouraged him to see that we are not pure, blameless and above reproach because of what we do -- ever. Just can't or will not be that consistent. (I have yet to meet the man or woman who proves this understanding to be wrong.) But we are holy, blameless and above reproach IN Christ -- a truth that carries water only because of our position in Christ. I mean, that is what the text says. I contrasted that with what many fundies believe -- that the disciple is saved from hell fire rather than being saved from all that comes his way, the work of the Accuser, to tie him to failure and disappointment. I believe that many are as talented as some, the difference being that the talent is closer to the top , for some others having to work harder. At the end of the day, success is as great for the many as for the some, it just didn't come as easy. Anyway, it will be interesting to see just what he says . The good thing about this is that it gives me an opportunity to talk to him about the truine God and all that He has accomplished in Christ. Jd
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
There is not a single good accomplished by calling names, true or untrue. Rules of debate simply do not entertain the notion that an ad hom is always a lie. That is a misrepresentation of "ad hom." It can be something very true but off subject. A person makes a statement and the accepted response is to attack the person -- whether true or notand the issue gets lost in the dust "yes you are" and "no you're not." People who disagree probably have not raised children, because children use this type of response constantly. jd -- Original message -- From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non ChristianDAVEH: What kind of convoluted logic is that, Judge Dean??? Does any other TTer who understands what Dean said above, agree with his explanation?You DaveH are a Pagan.DAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Judge Dean. To me, your above comment is a blatant ad-hom, and I will request Judge Moore take the appropriate action if you do not w ish to apologize.he fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus ChristDAVEH: Is that coming from Judge Dean, or Judge Moore?Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attackDAVEH: Really?!?!?!?! Did you just make a new TT rule, Judge Moore? Or was that Judge Dean expressing his unfounded wishes?state a petition to impeach meDAVEH: Seems to me that you are doing a good job of it on your own.I am not Judge DeanDAVEH: Then am I to assume that every time you pass judgment, you are speaking as Judge Moore?by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attackingDAVEH: ??? I thought we were playing the game by your standards, Judge Dean! Hence.Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack according to you.I will have to go to the ModeratorDAVEH: I've not had much luck with him, but I suspect he will listen to you. Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM* The latter. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where
Re: [TruthTalk] Hidden in Christ
Always good to see a 'person' such as yourself on TT, Bishop! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 13:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hidden in Christ Just talked to my 38 year old lawyer/state wrestling champ son -- on the phone. He is presenting a song and a lesson to one of the Unity Churches in Seattle, this weekend. He is not a professional speaker although he is very much a professional type guy. He has titled his lesson "Man's failure and God success." It is so good to be able to talk to him about something of substance in relation to this lesson he is considering. I pointed him to Col 1:19-23 and encouraged him to see that we are not pure, blameless and above reproach because of what we do -- ever. Just can't or will not be that consistent. (I have yet to meet the man or woman who proves this understanding to be wrong.) But we are holy, blameless and above reproach IN Christ -- a truth that carries water only because of our position in Christ. I mean, that is what the text says. I contrasted that with what many fundies believe -- that the disciple is saved from hell fire rather than being saved from all that comes his way, the work of the Accuser, to tie him to failure and disappointment. I believe that many are as talented as some, the difference being that the talent is closer to the top , for some others having to work harder. At the end of the day, success is as great for the many as for the some, it just didn't come as easy. Anyway, it will be interesting to see just what he says . The good thing about this is that it gives me an opportunity to talk to him about the truine God and all that He has accomplished in Christ. Jd
Re: [TruthTalk] Hidden in Christ
Just talked to my 38 year old lawyer/state wrestling champ son -- on the phone. He is presenting a song and a lesson to one of the Unity Churches in Seattle, this weekend. He is not a professional speaker although he is very much a professional type guy. He has titled his lesson "Man's failure and God success." It is so good to be able to talk to him about something of substance in relation to this lesson he is considering. I pointed him to Col 1:19-23 and encouraged him to see that we are not pure, blameless and above reproach because of what we do -- ever. Just can't or will not be that consistent. (I have yet to meet the man or woman who proves this understanding to be wrong.) But we are holy, blameless and above reproach IN Christ -- a truth that carries water only because of our position in Christ. I mean, that is what the text says. I contrasted that with what many fundies believe -- that the disciple is saved from hell fire rather than being saved from all that comes his way, the work of the Accuser, to tie him to failure and disappointment. I believe that many are as talented as some, the difference being that the talent is closer to the top , for some others having to work harder. At the end of the day, success is as great for the many as for the some, it just didn't come as easy. Anyway, it will be interesting to see just what he says . The good thing about this is that it gives me an opportunity to talk to him about the truine God and all that He has accomplished in Christ. Jd
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Can we please have some ONTOLOGICAL REDACTIONISM here?ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Sorry to talk over your head, Lance. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:00 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey Huh?- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:56 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey I cant help, also, wondering what kind of gospel this is. Can you enlighten us, Lance, on redeemed personhood? How about repentance from sin and dead works? How about the cleansing Blood? I know we must be gentle when opening rusted shut doors, but we must use truth or we have released the lost from one prison into another. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:19 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not concern someone else Lance? I don't remember commenting on this and I certainly do not find it humorous. Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood" The invitation is to become part of a "new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new. On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years we've come to know one another. 2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length. As I recall, you found the observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.- Original Message
- From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
A couple of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: John D Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject: Open door on the journey I am now in Singapore after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey. My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South African Airways. Then in
New York our departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home. A friend of Traceys called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed. On the way to Durban she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she wasnt sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in
Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel.
For further TRUTH see DC comics "Superman" circa 1950 (all volumes)Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Clarification please..the right, including GWB, can be wrong? FYI see the anniversay edition (2 discs) of 'All the President's Men'.- Original Message -From:ShieldsFamilyTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 09:18 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An OffensiveGospel. No Im not sayingthat. Im saying that if one is filled with the Holy Spirit then sinfulattitudes/beliefs should start to fall away. Like some people at ourchurch have been heard to say, I became a Christ follower and then all myopinions about politics started changing. No one said anything to meabout any of itits weird, but everything just changed!iz From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of LanceMuirSent: Thursday, March09, 2006 7:52 AMTo:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. This seems to be a real problemfor you. All kidding aside would you attempt to help me understand you betteron this? Do you believe that one cannot be a believer yet convinced that theright is wrong? - Original Message -From: ShieldsFamilyTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 09, 2006 08:45 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I refuse to purchase anything else from her, as she uses part of the proceeds to support liberal causes. She is one of those enigmas who calls herself a Christ follower who is a ranting liberal. Only God knows where the dividing line lies in such cases. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:54 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I'm a big audiobook fan so, I listen to her (AL) read her own books. My response is pretty much the same as yours. The political influence of her early life is pervasive in her writings. (Yup, I do feel similarly re:'Lib' ranters!) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March08, 2006 17:28 Subject: RE:[TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I would say thatno ones work is 100% perfect when it comes to honoring the Lord. Everyone is on a continuum including those you have mentioned. WhenI read Lamott I laugh out loud (especially what she wrote about her in aswimsuit!) and some of what she writes really touches me, but I oftenwonder if she really is saved. I know she has a whole lot of growingin godliness to do; still has a huge issue with rebellion. But Ithink she is a baby Believer. She, IMO, is on the outer fringes ofthose you mentionednot in the same league. iz From:[EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:02AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An OffensiveGospel. JRRT, CSL, John Updike,Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, LamottCare to comment as to whether their's was aor b? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamilyTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. And me. I use my imagination whenever I create a new design for a quilt, for example. Or decorate my home. Or write. Or make a collage (Im creating one around Romans 8.) Dont confuse a godly imagination with a worldly/fleshly one. (God used His when He created the Universe.) Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. John Lennon and three year olds On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Imaginationanyone? From: Judy Taylor Hey Kevin, this is excellent - one questi
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
That is Judge Moore to you buddy!! DAVEH: I have a hard time figuring out which Judge I'm dealing with, as he seems to speak from both sides of his mouth. :-\ DAVEH: I can understand you saying that about Lance, Kevin.but, why did you include Judge Dean in that rant? cd: Hey-No fair-Where is the moderator?Ad. HOM!- Ad. Homein attack!! Someone get the Moderator-That is Judge Moore to you buddy!! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
So what does the fact that they are wrong have to do with anything? If I can find some other group who is wrong on the issue what does that prove? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:48 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I don’t understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who don’t aren’t saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didn’t get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
If it quacksShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It’s called ducking the question when you don’t have the answer. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:00 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey It's called the archives.- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:57 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey I don’t recall this either. I’d like to hear Lance’s take on it. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:26 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill, David and John went on at some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter Judy, as your responses then were just like now.
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006
07:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not concern someone else Lance? I don't remember commenting on this and I certainly do not find it
humorous. Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood" The invitation is to become part of a "new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new. On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years we've come to know one another. 2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length. As I recall, you found the observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006
06:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey A couple of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: John D Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject: Open door on the journey I am now in Singapore after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey. My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the
eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about “Jesus loves you” in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each other God’s blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasn’t working so each flight was brought in “manually”, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes
for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home. A friend of Tracey’s called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and
then turned away from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathan’s and my stories from Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culture—the usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed. On the way to Durban she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a Christian home but had questioned h
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Well, well! It's good to see that someone actually
does remember THAT CONVERSATION, even if unfavourably!
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 12:05
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
DO WE REALLY WANT TO GO
THEREONtoLOGICALy?Ontorelation aspects of personhood and
the chemical attachments?My holistic rememberance of the "discussions"
brings back bad memories!Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
It's called the archives.
-
Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 09, 2006 08:57
Subject:
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
I dont recall
this either. Id like to hear Lances take on it.
iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:26
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill,
David and John went on at some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter
Judy, as your responses then were just like
now.
- Original Message -
From: Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 09, 2006 07:18
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
Hmm! Are you
sure your recall does not concern someone else
Lance?
I don't
remember commenting on this and I certainly do not find it
humorous.
Jesus did not
come to put a bandaid on the "old man" which would be our flesh or
"personhood"
The
invitation is to become part of a "new creation" - old things pass away
and all things become new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
1. I've no idea as we've
never discussed it over the years we've come to know one
another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has
been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the
observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and
humorous.
- Original Message
-
From:
Judy Taylor
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 09, 2006 06:51
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
A couple
of questions Lance;
1. Is
John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his
gospel?
2. What
is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come
to redeem it?
John
wrote:
She said she never felt the church was
interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for
eternity; that Jesus came
to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for
heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance
Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
- Original Message
-
From: John D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006
18:56
Subject: Open door on the
journey
I am now in
Singapore after
a brief stop over in South Africa with
Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has
been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in
Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When
Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
Truth is not a shell game unless one is a Spiritual Huckster then it can be a tool for fooling the masses There are plenty of them out there! "Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost' if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children to be palmed upon the elders by the people, bringing the elders into great difficulties.'" - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v.1, p.51Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So who has the truth?- Original Message -From:KevinDeeganTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to'snakes anyone'? SO Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From:ShieldsFamilyTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to'snakes anyone'? It is oneevidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarityamidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Isspeaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with theSpirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signedoff on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message -From: ShieldsFamilyTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message- From:ShieldsFamily To:TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent:March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject:RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakesanyone'? I guess Paulwent overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didntget sick. Such a literal guy. iz From:[EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LanceMuirSent: Tuesday,March 07, 2006 5:28 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to'snakes anyone'? That was an reference tothe 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touchoverboard on literalism. Look in the mirrorfolks. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! NewPhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
DO WE REALLY WANT TO GO THERE ONtoLOGICALy? Ontorelation aspects of personhood and the chemical attachments? My holistic rememberance of the "discussions" brings back bad memories!Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's called the archives.- Original Message -From:ShieldsFamilyTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:57 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey I dont recall thiseither. Id like to hear Lances take on it.iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:26AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door onthe journey No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill,David and John went on at some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter Judy,as your responses then
were just likenow. - Original Message -From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 09, 2006 07:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not concern someone else Lance? I don't remember commenting on this and I certainly do not find it humorous. Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood" The invitation is to become part of a "new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new. On Thu, 9 Mar
2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 1. I've no idea as we've neverdiscussed it over the years we've come to know oneanother. 2. 'Personhood' Judy, has beendiscussed at great length. As I recall, you found theobservations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous andhumorous. - Original Message -From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 06:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey A couple of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message- From:John D Wilson To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject:Open door on the journey I am now inSingapore after abrief stop over in South Africa with Jonathanand Tracey. My journey out has beeninteresting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto dueto an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived inNew York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia
to JFK airport and my cabdriver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in thecab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing,wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminalfor South African Airways. Then in New York ourdeparture was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights andwaiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later Iarrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavyrain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasntworking so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched downsafely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator toshow up, we finally disembarked and waited 50
minutes for ourluggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight toDurban which in turn was delayed byalmost 1½
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
That wasn't not done out of respect. DAVEH: Hmm...Do you have any respect for Mormons, Dean? Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? DAVEH: Hmmm again.Sounds like something he learned from SPers. Would a Mormon High Priest do such? DAVEH: None that I know would do such. Hmmm a third time..Perhaps he was a SPer claiming to be MHP. If he was indeed a true Mormon, I believe his actions were inappropriate, and I will apologize to you in his behalf. However, I dislike drawing conclusions without hearing the his side of the story. Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. DAVEH: That's a mistake I've seen other moderators use as an excuse for improper behavior. Do you believe that separating Judge Dean from Judge More absolves you from responsible behavior? If Judge Dean posts an ad-hom, would not be reasonable to expect Judge More admonish him? If not, then would Judge More be practicing a double standard? Perhaps I do have trouble separating the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore.when I hear you say something to the effect.. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention I pretty much hear Judge More's voice, despite your claim that it is Judge Dean's lips that are moving. I can't see which side of the mouth you are speaking from, Judge Dean. I can only read your words and interpret them as coming from one who intends to take no prisoners. All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. DAVEH: You are the one who called me a pagan, Judge Dean. If you wish to refuse to apologize for making that ad-hom remark, and if Judge Moore does not call you on the carpet for posting blatant ad-homs, then would Judge Moore be justified in giving me the boot if I merely referred to Judge Dean's ___(fill in the blank) practices? Your take no prisoners comment seems to imply TT is not big enough for both of us, Judge Dean. Is that where you want to go with this? gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. DAVEH: Thank you for that measure of respect, Dean. cd: That wasn't not done out of respect. I just don't like being set up/used by Mormons.He told us that Mormons loved the present Prophet (so-called) more then they loved J. Smith-then gave us the pictures then instructed us to tear them up in front of the Temple. Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? Would a Mormon High Priest do such? I guess I will Get DavH off you back DAVEH: ??? Does that mean you have your finger on the EXECUTE DavH button, Judge Dean? Has Kevin been complaining about me bothering him lately? I don't recall saying anything to him recently that would be disrespectful..But if he wants me gone, it is within your power to carry out his wishes. cd: Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention DAVEH: How considerate of you, Judge Dean! I guess I should fee privileged that you are willing to devote all your attention to me to the exclusion of other TTers. It does seem a bit selfish though.as you seem to want to smoke all the Ad. Hom. grass yourself!!! Just don't inhale though, as you might choke on it.. =-O cd: Sound like you also like a good fight-You admitted to provocking me and I am answering your caslling out and I am standing here Mormon-lets get on with it Pagan. Dean Moore wrote: cd: Ouch:-) Hey I have that picture in mutli's-The High Priest that Ruben hung out (what was his name?)with gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. Kevin I guess I will Get DavH off you back for a while as soon as David shows of-or better yet I might as well get stated on that:-)So I will be busy for a while-Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
Re: [TruthTalk] Person
Coming from a Master Cryptologist I thought you really enjoyed the cryptic messages passed from within the deep dark caverns of the "community of real crypto believers" Incidently, is Gary the high priest and pinnacle of community communication?Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: May I quote? "This seems to be a real problem for you. All kidding aside would you attempt to help me understand you better on this? Do you believe that one cannot be a believer yet convinced that the right is wrong?" Part 2 Please fill us in on your enjoyment of GT Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I should have know better than to suggest thinking. Shame on me! Do you enjoy saying nothing about something?- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PersonThere you go refering us to your "bibLe" again Why would I not find such import displayed in the HOLY BIBLE? Why do I need to go to those that ( IYO ) may or may not have REAL TRUTH Your philosophy is SELF-REFUTINGLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It is apparent to all that I'm no match for such as Dean, Kevin and, Judy. I'm just not in their league. Therefore.NO, I'm not leaving! I'd only suggest that you look up the discussion on the above as it took place in the history of the 'believing community'. You needn't and, probably won't, agree. It might however, give you some sense of the import attached to it vis a vis Jesus. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn
I do not want you gone Dave. DAVEH: Thanx Kevin. Hmmm...what do you think Judge Dean meant by his comment.I guess I will Get DavH off you back? His below explanation lacks logical credibility, IMO. I do not complain about you DAVEH: From Dean's previous comment.I guess I will Get DavH off you back... it seemed as though the Judge was implying you were bothered by my presence on TT. If that is not the case, I appreciate the clarification. You have no problem with the draconian rules of your leaders? DAVEH: Do you have any problems with the draconian rules of the Bible, Kevin? The Lord gave the Law, and how well we keep it is somewhat a measure of our love for him. Do you see it the same way, Kevin? Kevin Deegan wrote: I do not want you gone Dave. Please don't misrepresent me I have never said or implied such I am not a pope protestant or potentate! Banishment and worse is a Popish - Protestant distinctive! This is in their belief system I have told you before I am not of the RC nor their offspring the protestants! I do not chase people down the street come over here Mormon. Repent or else I will... I will preach but if you are offended plug you ears and avert youe eyes as I have previouslt stated on this forum The Supreme court has said the same. I believe in freedom of speech AND conscience. I have no desire to enforce my beliefs on you. I have a desire as the scriptures speak, that God will give you a heart of flesh and eternal life. I do not complain about you I hardly know you! I am agains t certain beliefs, that does not mean we could not be friends and still disagree STRONGLY. Ask my LDS friends O I left out POTENTATES such as Hinckley The thinking has been done according to your leaders ya know. You have no problem with the draconian rules of your leaders? Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:58:51 AM Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] spirit of Hinn gave us copies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. DAVEH: Thank you for that measure of respect, Dean. cd: That wasn't not done out of respect. I just don't like being set up/used by Mormons.He told us that Mormons loved the present Prophet (so-called) more then they loved J. Smith-then gave us the pictures then instructed us to tear them up in front of the Temple. Sure sounded like a set up to me? You agree DaveH? Would a Mormon High Priest do such? I guess I will Get DavH off you back DAVEH: ??? Does that mean you have your finger on the EXECUTE DavH button, Judge Dean? Has Kevin been complaining about me bothering him lately? I don't recall saying anything to him recently that would be disrespectful..But if he wants me gone, it is within your power to carry out his wishes. cd: Dave you need to learn to separate the Moderator "Judge More" from Dean Moore. All I meant was that we are headed to our usual take no prisoners debate. Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention DAVEH: How considerate of you, Judge Dean! I guess I should fee pr ivileged that you are willing to devote all your attention to me to the exclusion of other TTers. It does seem a bit selfish though.as you seem to want to smoke all the Ad. Hom. grass yourself!!! Just don't inhale though, as you might choke on it.. =-O cd: Sound like you also like a good fight-You admitted to provocking me and I am answering your caslling out and I am standing here Mormon-lets get on with it Pagan. Dean Moore wrote: cd: Ouch:-) Hey I have that picture in mutli's-The High Priest that Ruben hung out (what was his name?)with gave us c opies to tear up in from of the Temple-but we didn't do so. Kevin I guess I will Get DavH off you back for a while as soon as David shows of-or better yet I might as well get stated on that:-)So I will be busy for a while-Group Please keep off the Ad. Hom. grass so I can give the "Provoker" some attention. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
[TruthTalk] Fw: Prayer Update: Shankar
- Original Message - From: "John D Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: March 09, 2006 10:54 Subject: Prayer Update: Shankar Greetings from Singapore. Today I met with Shankar--the Taoist I met in Singapore a year ago. His mother came from Japan and his father from India, and he chose to follow Taoism. But he is a seeker. We did not have much time together to talk privately, but at least our friendship was strengthened. He knows about our work from my colleague here, Dave Enns, and he is amazed at the stories he has heard about the work in Papua. Today he also met with Art and Carol Clark who just flew in from Papua, and heard them telling me what some of the Yali children are doing today--men and women we knew as little "stone age" children, now serving the Lord in various ways and one who has become a chauffeur-driven government official! It was an opportunity to tell him simply about God's call on my life and how God has led me and enabled Gloria and me all these years. I don't know when or if I will see him again, but Shankar is conscious that there is some miraculous power which brought him to be here (with unlikely parents--one from Japan and one from India); how he met Dave Enns "by chance" while walking in a jungle preserve in Singapore; and how he then met me in Dave and Phyliss's home. He told Dave that he thought I was a kindred spirit, and he wants to stay in touch, which we will continue to do by e-mail. So here is another "chance encounter" of a divine kind which we will follow up with Divine leading and enabling. John <>
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Whatever.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
9:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
Perhaps you will read it again. She (John) is a he. There's
no way I'd call you a liar, Iz. No, I'm not going down that road again
(person/persons/personhood). Just think of him (not her) as a heretic(k) along
with me then, move on.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
09:51
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
Who are you to judge whether I am
“genuine” when I say I’m not sure what your friend meant when
she told a woman that Christ would redeem her “personhood”?
Are you calling me a liar? I’d really like to know what she means by
that. Is she saying Jesus loves the real you—you don’t have
to conform to Churchianity? Or is she saying You can be accepted without
repenting of sin; Jesus will let you stay just the way you are? Hopefully it is
the former. iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
8:36 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
It isn't when the question itself is in no way genuine.
Believe me when I tell you that the archives contain the whole conversation.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
09:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
It’s called ducking the question
when you don’t have the answer.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
8:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
It's called the archives.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
08:57
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
I don’t recall this either. I’d
like to hear Lance’s take on it. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
6:26 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill, David and John went on at
some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter Judy, as your responses then
were just like now.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
07:18
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not
concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this and
I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on
the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood"
The invitation is to become part of a
"new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years
we've come to know one another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the observations concerning it
('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
A couple of questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and
is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and
where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it?
John wrote:
She said she never felt the
church was interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is
for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just
save our souls for heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
- Original Message -
From: John
D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006
18:56
Subject: Open door on the
journey
I am now in Singapore
after a brief stop over in South
Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and
a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern
seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK
airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about “Jesus
loves you” in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a gre
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Perhaps you will read it again. She (John) is a he.
There's no way I'd call you a liar, Iz. No, I'm not going down that road again
(person/persons/personhood). Just think of him (not her) as a heretic(k) along
with me then, move on.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 09:51
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
Who are you to judge
whether I am genuine when I say Im not sure what your friend meant when she
told a woman that Christ would redeem her personhood? Are you calling
me a liar? Id really like to know what she means by that. Is she saying
Jesus loves the real youyou dont have to conform to Churchianity? Or
is she saying You can be accepted without repenting of sin; Jesus will let you
stay just the way you are? Hopefully it is the former.
iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Lance
MuirSent: Thursday, March
09, 2006 8:36 AMTo:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
It isn't when the question itself
is in no way genuine. Believe me when I tell you that the archives contain the
whole conversation.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March
09, 2006 09:22
Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Its called ducking
the question when you dont have the answer.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:00
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door
on the journey
It's called the
archives.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March
09, 2006 08:57
Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
I dont recall
this either. Id like to hear Lances take on it.
iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:26
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill,
David and John went on at some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter
Judy, as your responses then were just like
now.
- Original Message -
From: Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 09, 2006 07:18
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
Hmm! Are you sure
your recall does not concern someone else
Lance?
I don't remember
commenting on this and I certainly do not find it
humorous.
Jesus did not come
to put a bandaid on the "old man" which would be our flesh or
"personhood"
The invitation is
to become part of a "new creation" - old things pass away and all things
become new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
1. I've no idea as we've
never discussed it over the years we've come to know one
another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has
been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the
observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and
humorous.
- Original Message
-
From:
Judy Taylor
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 09, 2006 06:51
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
A couple of
questions Lance;
1. Is John
Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his
gospel?
2. What is
"personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to
redeem it?
Jo
Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
Oo, I see. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 09:52 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? You know .I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Get it? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:37 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Huh? again! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 09:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Whoever has Christ, obviously. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:02 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? So who has the truth? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? SO Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers?
RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
You know….”I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” Get it? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:37 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Huh? again! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 09:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Whoever has Christ, obviously. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:02 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? So who has the truth? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? SO Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I don’t understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who don’t aren’t saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didn’t get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Who are you to judge whether I am “genuine”
when I say I’m not sure what your friend meant when she told a woman that
Christ would redeem her “personhood”? Are you calling me a liar? I’d
really like to know what she means by that. Is she saying Jesus loves the real
you—you don’t have to conform to Churchianity? Or is she saying
You can be accepted without repenting of sin; Jesus will let you stay just the
way you are? Hopefully it is the former. iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
8:36 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
It isn't when the question itself is in no way genuine.
Believe me when I tell you that the archives contain the whole conversation.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
09:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
It’s called ducking the question
when you don’t have the answer.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
8:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
It's called the archives.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
08:57
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
I don’t recall this either.
I’d like to hear Lance’s take on it. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
6:26 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill, David and John went on at
some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter Judy, as your responses then
were just like now.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
07:18
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not
concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this and
I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on
the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood"
The invitation is to become part of a
"new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years
we've come to know one another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the observations concerning it
('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
A couple of questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and
is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and
where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it?
John wrote:
She said she never felt the
church was interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is
for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just
save our souls for heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
- Original Message -
From: John
D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56
Subject: Open door on the
journey
I am now in Singapore
after a brief stop over in South
Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and
a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern
seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK
airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about “Jesus
loves you” in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time
of sharing, wishing each other God’s blessing as he dropped me off at the
terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours
because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More
than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was
almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasn’t working so each
flight was brought in “manually”, but we touched down safely. After
a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally
disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection
meant going for the next flight to Durban which
in tu
RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel.
Everyone can be wrong about something sometimes. You can be wrong about something that doesn’t grieve the Holy Spirit. No one is infallible on every issue. But Believers don’t hold onto beliefs that grieve the Holy Spirit. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:30 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. Clarification please..the right, including GWB, can be wrong? FYI see the anniversay edition (2 discs) of 'All the President's Men'. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 09:18 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. No I’m not saying that. I’m saying that if one is filled with the Holy Spirit then sinful attitudes/beliefs should start to fall away. Like some people at our church have been heard to say, “I became a Christ follower and then all my opinions about politics started changing. No one said anything to me about any of it—it’s weird, but everything just changed!” iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:52 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. This seems to be a real problem for you. All kidding aside would you attempt to help me understand you better on this? Do you believe that one cannot be a believer yet convinced that the right is wrong? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:45 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I refuse to purchase anything else from her, as she uses part of the proceeds to support liberal causes. She is one of those enigmas who calls herself a Christ follower who is a ranting liberal. Only God knows where the dividing line lies in such cases. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:54 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I'm a big audiobook fan so, I listen to her (AL) read her own books. My response is pretty much the same as yours. The political influence of her early life is pervasive in her writings. (Yup, I do feel similarly re:'Lib' ranters!) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I would say that no one’s work is 100% perfect when it comes to honoring the Lord. Everyone is on a continuum including those you have mentioned. When I read Lamott I laugh out loud (especially what she wrote about her in a swimsuit!) and some of what she writes really touches me, but I often wonder if she really is saved. I know she has a whole lot of growing in godliness to do; still has a huge issue with rebellion. But I think she is a baby Believer. She, IMO, is on the outer fringes of those you mentioned—not in the same league. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:02 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. JRRT, CSL, John Updike, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Lamott...Care to comment as to whether their's was a or b? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. And me. I use my imagination whenever I create a new design for a quilt, for example. Or decorate my home. Or write. Or make a collage (I’m creating one around Romans 8.) Don’t confuse a godly imagination with a worldly/fleshly one. (God used His when He created the Universe.) Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:47 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. John Lennon and three year olds On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Imagination anyone? From: Judy Taylor Hey Kevin, this is excellent - one question - is there room for "original thoughts?" On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:24:10 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is no room for broadmindedness in the chemical laboratory. Water is composed of two parts, hydrogen and one part oxygen. The slightest deviation from the formula is forbidden. There is no room for broadmindedness in music. The skilled director will not permit his first violin to play even so much as one-half note off the written note, chord, and key. There is no room for broadmindedness
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
It isn't when the question itself is in no way
genuine. Believe me when I tell you that the archives contain the whole
conversation.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 09:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
Its called ducking
the question when you dont have the answer.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:00
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
It's called the
archives.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March
09, 2006 08:57
Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
I dont recall this
either. Id like to hear Lances take on it.
iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:26
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door
on the journey
No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill,
David and John went on at some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter
Judy, as your responses then were just like
now.
- Original Message -
From: Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March
09, 2006 07:18
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does
not concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on
this and I certainly do not find it
humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a
bandaid on the "old man" which would be our flesh or
"personhood"
The invitation is to become part
of a "new creation" - old things pass away and all things become
new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
1. I've no idea as we've
never discussed it over the years we've come to know one
another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has
been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the
observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and
humorous.
- Original Message
-
From:
Judy Taylor
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 09, 2006 06:51
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
A couple of
questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson
preterist like you and is "preterism" his
gospel?
2. What is
"personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to
redeem it?
John
wrote:
She said she never felt the church was interested in who she
was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for
eternity; that Jesus came to
redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for
heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
- Original Message
-
From:
John D Wilson
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
March 07, 2006 18:56
Subject:
Open door on the journey
I am now in
Singapore after a
brief stop over in South Africa with
Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been
interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due
to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in
New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my
cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in
the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of
Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
Huh? again! - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 09:23 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Whoever has Christ, obviously. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:02 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? So who has the truth? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? SO Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didnt get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
I've already acknowledged that I'm often not up to
the level at which Judy, Kevin and Dean 'dialogue'. Shucks, now I've got to add
your name!
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 09:22
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
Sorry to talk over
your head, Lance.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:00
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
Huh?
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March
09, 2006 08:56
Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
I cant help, also,
wondering what kind of gospel this is. Can you enlighten us, Lance,
on redeemed personhood? How about repentance from sin and dead works? How
about the cleansing Blood? I know we must be gentle when opening rusted shut
doors, but we must use truth or we have released the lost from one prison
into another. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:19
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door
on the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does
not concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this
and I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid
on the "old man" which would be our flesh or
"personhood"
The invitation is to become part of
a "new creation" - old things pass away and all things become
new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never
discussed it over the years we've come to know one
another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been
discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the
observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and
humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 09, 2006 06:51
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
A couple of
questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson
preterist like you and is "preterism" his
gospel?
2. What is
"personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to
redeem it?
John
wrote:
She said she never felt the church was interested in who she
was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for
eternity; that Jesus came to
redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for
heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
- Original Message
-
From:
John D Wilson
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
March 07, 2006 18:56
Subject:
Open door on the journey
I am now in
Singapore after a
brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan
and Tracey.
My journey out has been
interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due
to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in
New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab
driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the
cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing,
wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal
for South African Airways. Then in New York our
departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and
waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I
arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy
rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt
working so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down
Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel.
haven't seen it, Bro--thx wonder what poetry's on it? let us in on it On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:05:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Are you aware (of course you are) that a dvd is out with Dylan's gospel music? ||
Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel.
Clarification please..the right, including GWB, can be wrong? FYI see the anniversay edition (2 discs) of 'All the President's Men'. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 09:18 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. No Im not saying that. Im saying that if one is filled with the Holy Spirit then sinful attitudes/beliefs should start to fall away. Like some people at our church have been heard to say, I became a Christ follower and then all my opinions about politics started changing. No one said anything to me about any of itits weird, but everything just changed! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:52 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. This seems to be a real problem for you. All kidding aside would you attempt to help me understand you better on this? Do you believe that one cannot be a believer yet convinced that the right is wrong? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:45 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I refuse to purchase anything else from her, as she uses part of the proceeds to support liberal causes. She is one of those enigmas who calls herself a Christ follower who is a ranting liberal. Only God knows where the dividing line lies in such cases. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:54 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I'm a big audiobook fan so, I listen to her (AL) read her own books. My response is pretty much the same as yours. The political influence of her early life is pervasive in her writings. (Yup, I do feel similarly re:'Lib' ranters!) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I would say that no ones work is 100% perfect when it comes to honoring the Lord. Everyone is on a continuum including those you have mentioned. When I read Lamott I laugh out loud (especially what she wrote about her in a swimsuit!) and some of what she writes really touches me, but I often wonder if she really is saved. I know she has a whole lot of growing in godliness to do; still has a huge issue with rebellion. But I think she is a baby Believer. She, IMO, is on the outer fringes of those you mentionednot in the same league. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:02 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. JRRT, CSL, John Updike, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Lamott...Care to comment as to whether their's was a or b? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. And me. I use my imagination whenever I create a new design for a quilt, for example. Or decorate my home. Or write. Or make a collage (Im creating one around Romans 8.) Dont confuse a godly imagination with a worldly/fleshly one. (God used His when He created the Universe.) Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. John Lennon and three year olds On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Imagination anyone? From: Judy Taylor Hey Kevin, this is excellent - one question - is there room for "original thoughts?" On Mon, 6
Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
Nuff said. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 09:14 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Thats why Im non-denominational. It is an irrelevant issue to me. Let those who wish to hold up one doctrine over another cluster around their denominations. I only wish to lift up Jesus. The Holy Spirit will then lead each one into Truth as far as they will allow. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:48 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didnt get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks.
RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
Whoever has Christ, obviously. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:02 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? So who has the truth? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? SO Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I don’t understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who don’t aren’t saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didn’t get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
It’s called ducking the question
when you don’t have the answer.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
8:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
It's called the archives.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
08:57
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
I don’t recall this either.
I’d like to hear Lance’s take on it. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
6:26 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill, David and John went on at
some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter Judy, as your responses then
were just like now.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
07:18
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not
concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this and
I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on
the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood"
The invitation is to become part of a
"new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years
we've come to know one another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the observations concerning it
('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
A couple of questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and
is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and
where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it?
John wrote:
She said she never felt the
church was interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is
for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just
save our souls for heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
- Original Message -
From: John
D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006
18:56
Subject: Open door on the
journey
I am now in Singapore
after a brief stop over in South
Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and
a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern
seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK
airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about “Jesus
loves you” in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time
of sharing, wishing each other God’s blessing as he dropped me off at the
terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours
because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More
than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was
almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasn’t working so each
flight was brought in “manually”, but we touched down safely. After
a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally
disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection
meant going for the next flight to Durban which
in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there
to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home.
A friend of Tracey’s called Natalie was staying the
weekend with them. She had to be in Durban
on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my
flight to Singapore.
She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away
from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me
alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathan’s and my stories from
Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culture—the usual stuff
about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone
changed.
On the way to Durban
she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal
way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a
Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she
wasn’t sure whether she had tota
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Sorry to talk over your head, Lance.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
8:00 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
Huh?
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
08:56
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
I can’t help, also, wondering what
kind of “gospel” this is. Can you enlighten us, Lance, on
redeemed personhood? How about repentance from sin and dead works? How about
the cleansing Blood? I know we must be gentle when opening rusted shut doors,
but we must use truth or we have released the lost from one prison into
another. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
6:19 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not
concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this and
I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on
the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood"
The invitation is to become part of a
"new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years
we've come to know one another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the observations concerning it
('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
A couple of questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and
is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and
where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it?
John wrote:
She said she never felt the
church was interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is
for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just
save our souls for heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
- Original Message -
From: John
D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006
18:56
Subject: Open door on the
journey
I am now in Singapore
after a brief stop over in South
Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and
a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern
seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK
airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about “Jesus loves
you” in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of
sharing, wishing each other God’s blessing as he dropped me off at the
terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours
because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More
than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was
almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasn’t working so each
flight was brought in “manually”, but we touched down safely. After
a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally
disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection
meant going for the next flight to Durban which
in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there
to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home.
A friend of Tracey’s called Natalie was staying the
weekend with them. She had to be in Durban
on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my
flight to Singapore.
She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away
from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me
alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathan’s and my stories from Papua,
and asked a lot about missionaries and culture—the usual stuff about
imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone
changed.
On the way to Durban
she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal
way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a
Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she
wasn’t sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in
middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was
“churchianity” and not Christ. This really opened
RE: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
I did not! I’m not going to define “ignorance”; did you really want me to??? But I’ve often noticed that those who are the wackiest are also the loudest about it. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:53 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? A, you went for the smart remark. Sad. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:47 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Ignorance is in the dictionary. Look it up. It seems apparent to me that the most ignorant are often the proudest of it, like the types who plaster their cars with bumper stickers that say things like Visualize World Peace, etc. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:03 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Iz:If by 'showing one's ignorance' you mean 'those who disagree with me and mine then we disagree. Have you never come to occupy a position than you once denounced? I have. (Smart remarks OK but, not necessary) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 18:00 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Lance, showing one’s ignorance is not only legitimate but is an art in democracy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:23 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Nothing of the kind, Judy. I only wish for it to be legitimate in a democratic society. Apparently, you do not. I actually understand this kind of thinking. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 10:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? What's this "stream of consciousness" business... don't you think before you speak Lance? I'm all for "freedom of speech" - for instance you are free to disagree and state that "badmouthing GWB is a sign of intellectualism or intelligence" if you want. On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:06:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: This goes back to 'badmouthing GWB is at best ignorance', Judy. It's kinda like shutting down free speech'. Thus, the subsequent comment on democracy. I'm accustomed to my own stream of consciousness thinking but, surprised when I find it in others. (you) From: Judy Taylor What is your comment supposed to mean Lance? What does GWB have to do with what I have been discussing? As I have noted before - you are forever locked into the personal On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:11:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I believe GWB to be sincere also. From: Judy Taylor The lines may be blurred in countries like the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK (to all but the SP's :) However, they are quite apparent to anyone who has lived in a third world country recently. I was commenting on the article in the current National Geographic about the Ukraine which shows a photo of a peninsula there with mansions on it. Our Missions friend told me this is the fruit of graft, corruption, and the Russian Mafia which have risen to the top of the heap rather quickly. Our island born SIL can tell you the same about his homeland. Whoever rises to the top in Government treats the treasury like their own checkbook and their children are the ones who go overseas to attend the best schools. Of course there is a lot of it in the countries named above also, we observe Congress giving themselves raises all the time and a Congressman who just spent 20yrs in prison will still get his pension whereas a serviceman would have to forfeit his... so although imperfect - with checks and balances in place our system still beats any in the third world until the Lord returns to straighten it all out for us. Maranatha!! On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:47:36 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: The United States of America is not a Democracy Lance; it is a Democratic Republic - which is good training because God's Kingdom is not a "Democracy" either. You should be relieved that the will of fallen humanity is not on the throne. On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: How could one ask for more than to be present on a 'chat room' where ppl illustrate the absence of a democratic frame of mind? From: Judy Taylor Bad
RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel.
No I’m not saying that. I’m saying that if one is filled with the Holy Spirit then sinful attitudes/beliefs should start to fall away. Like some people at our church have been heard to say, “I became a Christ follower and then all my opinions about politics started changing. No one said anything to me about any of it—it’s weird, but everything just changed!” iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:52 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. This seems to be a real problem for you. All kidding aside would you attempt to help me understand you better on this? Do you believe that one cannot be a believer yet convinced that the right is wrong? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:45 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I refuse to purchase anything else from her, as she uses part of the proceeds to support liberal causes. She is one of those enigmas who calls herself a Christ follower who is a ranting liberal. Only God knows where the dividing line lies in such cases. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:54 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I'm a big audiobook fan so, I listen to her (AL) read her own books. My response is pretty much the same as yours. The political influence of her early life is pervasive in her writings. (Yup, I do feel similarly re:'Lib' ranters!) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I would say that no one’s work is 100% perfect when it comes to honoring the Lord. Everyone is on a continuum including those you have mentioned. When I read Lamott I laugh out loud (especially what she wrote about her in a swimsuit!) and some of what she writes really touches me, but I often wonder if she really is saved. I know she has a whole lot of growing in godliness to do; still has a huge issue with rebellion. But I think she is a baby Believer. She, IMO, is on the outer fringes of those you mentioned—not in the same league. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:02 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. JRRT, CSL, John Updike, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Lamott...Care to comment as to whether their's was a or b? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. And me. I use my imagination whenever I create a new design for a quilt, for example. Or decorate my home. Or write. Or make a collage (I’m creating one around Romans 8.) Don’t confuse a godly imagination with a worldly/fleshly one. (God used His when He created the Universe.) Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:47 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. John Lennon and three year olds On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Imagination anyone? From: Judy Taylor Hey Kevin, this is excellent - one question - is there room for "original thoughts?" On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:24:10 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is no room for broadmindedness in the chemical laboratory. Water is composed of two parts, hydrogen and one part oxygen. The slightest deviation from the formula is forbidden. There is no room for broadmindedness in music. The skilled director will not permit his first violin to play even so much as one-half note off the written note, chord, and key. There is no room for broadmindedness in the mathematics classroom. Neither geometry, calculus, nor trigonometry allows any variation from exact accuracy, even for old time's sake. The solution of the problem is either right or it is wrong (no tolerance there). There is no room for broadmindedness on the athletic field. The game is to be played according to the rules with no favors shown for 'charity's sake.' There is no room for broadmindedness in the garage. The mechanic there says the piston rings must fit the cylinder walls within one-thousandth part of an inch. Even between friends there cannot be any variation if 'the motor is to run smoothly.' How then shall we expect that broadmindedness shall rule in the realm of Christianity and morals? He that forsakes the truth of God, forsak
RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
That’s why I’m non-denominational. It is an irrelevant issue to me. Let those who wish to hold up one doctrine over another cluster around their denominations. I only wish to lift up Jesus. The Holy Spirit will then lead each one into Truth…as far as they will allow. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:48 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I don’t understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who don’t aren’t saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didn’t get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks.
RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
Amen. Some are more filled than others. It’s a daily choice to abide in Christ and spill over with the sweet smelling fruit of the Spirit, or dwell in the flesh and spill over with stench of sin. But until we are baptized in Him we don’t even have that choice! iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Deegan Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:57 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? READ THE POST Do I think those who don’t aren’t saved? No. Any other question? Iz Perhaps IZ believes being IN Christ, IN the Spirit Baptized INTO is the act of being a Christian as the Bible states. All others that are WITHOUT or out side of that transaction of God's grace are NOT Christian. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. MY O MY we have answered the UNITY question and that when JD is not here! Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I don’t understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who don’t aren’t saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didn’t get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
So who has the truth? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? SO Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didnt get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
It's called the archives.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 08:57
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
I dont recall this
either. Id like to hear Lances take on it.
iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:26
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill,
David and John went on at some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter Judy,
as your responses then were just like
now.
- Original Message -
From: Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March
09, 2006 07:18
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does
not concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this
and I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid
on the "old man" which would be our flesh or
"personhood"
The invitation is to become part of
a "new creation" - old things pass away and all things become
new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never
discussed it over the years we've come to know one
another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been
discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the
observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and
humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
March 09, 2006 06:51
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
A couple of
questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson
preterist like you and is "preterism" his
gospel?
2. What is
"personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to
redeem it?
John
wrote:
She said she never felt the church was interested in who she
was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for
eternity; that Jesus came to
redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for
heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
- Original Message
-
From:
John D Wilson
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
March 07, 2006 18:56
Subject:
Open door on the journey
I am now in
Singapore after a
brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan
and Tracey.
My journey out has been
interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due
to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in
New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab
driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the
cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing,
wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal
for South African Airways. Then in New York our
departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and
waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I
arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy
rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt
working so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down
safely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to
show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our
luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to
Durban which in turn was delayed by
almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan
was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his
home.
A friend of Traceys
called Natalie was staying the weekend with t
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Huh?
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 08:56
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
I cant help, also,
wondering what kind of gospel this is. Can you enlighten us, Lance, on
redeemed personhood? How about repentance from sin and dead works? How about
the cleansing Blood? I know we must be gentle when opening rusted shut doors,
but we must use truth or we have released the lost from one prison into
another. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:19
AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not
concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this
and I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on
the "old man" which would be our flesh or
"personhood"
The invitation is to become part of a
"new creation" - old things pass away and all things become
new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never
discussed it over the years we've come to know one
another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been
discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the
observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and
humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March
09, 2006 06:51
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the
journey
A couple of
questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like
you and is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and where
would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem
it?
John
wrote:
She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was
as a person.
I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for
eternity; that Jesus came to
redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for
heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
- Original Message -
From: John D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
March 07, 2006 18:56
Subject:
Open door on the journey
I am now in
Singapore after a
brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan
and Tracey.
My journey out has been
interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to
an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New
York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver
was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I
opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each
other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South
African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two
hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for
de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via
Senegal. The heavy rain
was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so
each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After
a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we
finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A
missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours
and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was
there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his
home.
A friend of Traceys called
Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in
Durban on Monday so offered to save
Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my flight to
Singapore. She had grown up
in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the
Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me
alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from
Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual stuff
about impo
RE: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
How is it, Lance, that you can call others unteachable, but then refuse to define your meaning? Do you wish to encourage others in the Lord or just hurl epithets? iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:38 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? I won't BE answering you on this, Judy. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? You still haven't answered my query ... What does "teachable" look like to you? or How do you - Lance Muir determine whether or not one is "teachable?" On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:13:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 1. I DO NOT BELIEVE that none on TT is teachable! 2. 'personal brand of humility'? NO! From: Judy Taylor I like what Iz says also Lance; but I am curious about your definition since you are constantly making public note of the fact that noone who differs from you on TT is "teachable" I'd appreciate hearing it from you - not DM, BT, JS, Caroline, Debie or Slade, especially since you have been so critical of DM and accuse him of being dense or thick or something like this. IMO BT has nothing to teach others on this subject until he begins to demonstrate some of it in his own life and this applies to others on your list also. Why do you never respond to questions and \always seem to defer them to someone else. Is this your own personal brand of humility? On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:00:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: One could not but AMEN that, Iz. Well said. From: ShieldsFamily Being teachable is a state of heart. A lack of pride. A humility. A brokenness. Eagerness to repent. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir It is not necessary, Judy. DM, BT, JS, Caroline, Debbie & Slade have all attempted to do so, unsuccessfully. I perceive each to be superior to me so.. From: Judy Taylor Can you describe what you call "being teachable" looks like for us Lance? On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:33:12 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is a rather large distinction between agreeing with you Kevin, and being teachable. From: Kevin Deegan Your not teachable Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Did you send your kids to SS? Do you have no evangelistic mtgs where you are? Do some in attendance at either ever get converted? Do you have other names you prefer over 'conversion', Kevin. That you Kevin, believe yourself 'fully known (Paul's) doctrine' I've no doubt. I'd recommend to the moderator that we all take a hiatus from writing and, just let you teach us. From: Kevin Deegan Paul said: But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery BTW what is wrong with preaching Jesus Christ? or should we preach SS & Conversion at our evangelistic meetings? Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DH:TT has a NEW POPE! You're just going to have to adjust. IMO your mystification re:SP types ain't a mystery. Preach the (their) gospel (their doctrine) by any means whatsoever. As they see it the end justifies the means. Though you and I are most assuredly not of one mind as to Jesus yet, we are seen as occupying the same camp. That camp is the camp of the lost/damned/bound for hell. I do see why they do what they do. This is the same sort of logic employed by their commander in chief over the Middle East. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 02:03 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? to clear the confusion one should be able to prove their charge they make against others. DAVEH: That's what I asked you to do when you made a false accusation about me (condoning violence) a few months back. Your response was that you didn't know how to use the archives, and that is was my responsibility to prove that I didn't say something that I didn't say. Which is logically illogical. So what is you better idea? DAVEH: Practice what you preach. By the way I can change the rules if there is good reason to do so-but you cannot. DAVEH: Ahhh..May I assume this is your perception of fairness?!?!?! When I joined TT, it was proudly proclaimed there was only one rule in TT. It seems several moderators have put that fallacy to
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
I don’t recall this either. I’d
like to hear Lance’s take on it. iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
6:26 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
No Judy, I'm quite sure. Bill, David and John went on at
some length concerning 'personhood'. No matter Judy, as your responses then
were just like now.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
07:18
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not
concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this and
I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on
the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood"
The invitation is to become part of a
"new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years
we've come to know one another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the observations concerning it
('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
A couple of questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and
is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and
where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it?
John wrote:
She said she never felt the
church was interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is
for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just
save our souls for heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
- Original Message -
From: John
D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006
18:56
Subject: Open door on the
journey
I am now in Singapore
after a brief stop over in South
Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and
a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern
seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK
airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about “Jesus
loves you” in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time
of sharing, wishing each other God’s blessing as he dropped me off at the
terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours
because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More
than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was
almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasn’t working so each
flight was brought in “manually”, but we touched down safely. After
a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally
disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection
meant going for the next flight to Durban which
in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there
to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home.
A friend of Tracey’s called Natalie was staying the
weekend with them. She had to be in Durban
on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my
flight to Singapore.
She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away
from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me
alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathan’s and my stories from
Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culture—the usual stuff
about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone
changed.
On the way to Durban
she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal
way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a
Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she
wasn’t sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in
middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was
“churchianity” and not Christ. This really opened the conversation,
and I was able to talk about what Christ and the gospel means to me and my everyday
life. It seems this was the kind of thing she had been longing to
hear, but had she only been hearing the “trust Jesus now and go to heaven
later, and don’t go to hell” (like we heard on Sunday); but no one
was making it relevant to daily living. She said the churc
RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
I can’t help, also, wondering what
kind of “gospel” this is. Can you enlighten us, Lance, on redeemed
personhood? How about repentance from sin and dead works? How about the
cleansing Blood? I know we must be gentle when opening rusted shut doors, but
we must use truth or we have released the lost from one prison into another. iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
6:19 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not
concern someone else Lance?
I don't remember commenting on this and
I certainly do not find it humorous.
Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on
the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood"
The invitation is to become part of a
"new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new.
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years
we've come to know one another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length.
As I recall, you found the observations concerning it
('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006
06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Fw: Open door on the journey
A couple of questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and
is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and
where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it?
John wrote:
She said she never felt the
church was interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is
for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just
save our souls for heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
- Original Message -
From: John
D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006
18:56
Subject: Open door on the
journey
I am now in Singapore
after a brief stop over in South
Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and
a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern
seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK
airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about “Jesus
loves you” in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time
of sharing, wishing each other God’s blessing as he dropped me off at the
terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours
because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More
than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was
almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasn’t working so each
flight was brought in “manually”, but we touched down safely. After
a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally
disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection
meant going for the next flight to Durban which
in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there
to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home.
A friend of Tracey’s called Natalie was staying the
weekend with them. She had to be in Durban
on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my
flight to Singapore.
She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away
from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me
alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathan’s and my stories from
Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culture—the usual stuff
about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone
changed.
On the way to Durban
she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal
way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a
Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she
wasn’t sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in
middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was
“churchianity” and not Christ. This really opened the conversation,
and I was able to talk about what Christ and the gospel means to me and my everyday
life. It seems this was the kind of thing she had been longing to
hear, but had she only been hearing the “trust Jesus now and go to heaven
later, and don’t go to hell” (like we heard on Sunday); but no one
was making it relevant to daily living. She said the church is always talking
about what you have to do, but not about being—about who you are and how
you
Re: [TruthTalk] Person
May I quote? "This seems to be a real problem for you. All kidding aside would you attempt to help me understand you better on this? Do you believe that one cannot be a believer yet convinced that the right is wrong?" Part 2 Please fill us in on your enjoyment of GT Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I should have know better than to suggest thinking. Shame on me! Do you enjoy saying nothing about something?- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PersonThere you go refering us to your "bibLe" again Why would I not find such import displayed in the HOLY BIBLE? Why do I need to go to those that ( IYO ) may or may not have REAL TRUTH Your philosophy is SELF-REFUTINGLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It is apparent to all that I'm no match for such as Dean, Kevin and, Judy. I'm just not in their league. Therefore.NO, I'm not leaving! I'd only suggest that you look up the discussion on the above as it took place in the history of the 'believing community'. You needn't and, probably won't, agree. It might however, give you some sense of the import attached to it vis a vis Jesus. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
RE: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
HEY wait a second IZ I have bumper stickers on my car is that a problem? They say things such as Visualize Whirled Peas ; ) Just kiddin Actually I have scripture on my car GO FIGURE...ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Ignorance is in the dictionary. Look it up. It seems apparent to me that the most ignorant are often the proudest of it, like the types who plaster their cars with bumper stickers that say things like Visualize World Peace, etc. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:03 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Iz:If by 'showing one's ignorance' you mean 'those who disagree with me and mine then we disagree. Have you never come to occupy a position than you once denounced? I have. (Smart remarks OK but, not necessary) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 18:00Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Lance, showing ones ignorance is not only legitimate but is an art in democracy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:23 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Nothing of the kind, Judy. I only wish for it to be legitimate in a democratic society. Apparently, you do not. I actually understand this kind of thinking. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 10:18Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? What's this "stream of consciousness" business... don't you think before you speak Lance?I'm all for "freedom of speech" - for instance you are free to disagree and state that "badmouthing GWBis a sign of intellectualism or intelligence" if you want. On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:06:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: This goes back to 'badmouthing GWB is at best ignorance', Judy. It's kinda like shutting down free speech'. Thus, the subsequent comment on democracy. I'm accustomed to my own stream of consciousness thinking but, surprised when I find it in others. (you) From: Judy Taylor What is your comment supposed to mean Lance?What does GWB have to do with what I have been discussing?As I have noted before - you are forever locked into the personal On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:11:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I believe GWB to be sincere also. From: Judy Taylor The lines may be blurred in countries like the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK (to all but the SP's :)However, they are quite apparent to anyone who has lived in a third world country recently. I was commentingon the article in the current National Geographic about the Ukraine which shows a photo of a peninsula therewith mansions on it. Our Missions friend told me this is the fruit of graft, corruption, and the Russian Mafia which have risen to the top of the heap rather quickly. Our island born SIL can tell you the same about his homeland. Whoever rises to the top in Government treats the treasury like their own checkbook and their children are the ones who go overseas to attend the best schools. Of course there is a lot of it in the countries named above also, we observe Congress giving themselves raises all the time and a Congressman who just spent 20yrs in prison will still get his pension whereas aserviceman would have to forfeit his... so although imperfect - with checks and balances in place our systemstill beats any in the third world until the Lord returns to straighten it all out for us. Maranatha!! On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:47:36 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: The United States of America is not a Democracy Lance; it is a Democratic Republic - which is goodtraining because God's Kingdom is not a "Democracy" either. You should be relieved that the will offallen humanity is not on the throne. On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: How could one ask for more than to be present on a 'chat room' where ppl illustrate the absence of a democratic frame of mind? From: Judy Taylor Badmouthing GWB is at best ignorance. Our youngest girl's flatmate was a missionary to the Ukrainefor 5yrs and has just gotten back from a trip to Germany by way of the Ukraine to visit her friends there. She speaks Russian and when the plane couldn't land because of fog was able to translate for theUkrainians on board who had to return to Budapest and spend the night. She tells me that men comefrom all over to look for a wife in the Ukraine and there were two of them fro
Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel.
This seems to be a real problem for you. All kidding aside would you attempt to help me understand you better on this? Do you believe that one cannot be a believer yet convinced that the right is wrong? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:45 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I refuse to purchase anything else from her, as she uses part of the proceeds to support liberal causes. She is one of those enigmas who calls herself a Christ follower who is a ranting liberal. Only God knows where the dividing line lies in such cases. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:54 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I'm a big audiobook fan so, I listen to her (AL) read her own books. My response is pretty much the same as yours. The political influence of her early life is pervasive in her writings. (Yup, I do feel similarly re:'Lib' ranters!) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I would say that no ones work is 100% perfect when it comes to honoring the Lord. Everyone is on a continuum including those you have mentioned. When I read Lamott I laugh out loud (especially what she wrote about her in a swimsuit!) and some of what she writes really touches me, but I often wonder if she really is saved. I know she has a whole lot of growing in godliness to do; still has a huge issue with rebellion. But I think she is a baby Believer. She, IMO, is on the outer fringes of those you mentionednot in the same league. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:02 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. JRRT, CSL, John Updike, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Lamott...Care to comment as to whether their's was a or b? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. And me. I use my imagination whenever I create a new design for a quilt, for example. Or decorate my home. Or write. Or make a collage (Im creating one around Romans 8.) Dont confuse a godly imagination with a worldly/fleshly one. (God used His when He created the Universe.) Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. John Lennon and three year olds On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Imagination anyone? From: Judy Taylor Hey Kevin, this is excellent - one question - is there room for "original thoughts?" On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:24:10 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is no room for broadmindedness in the chemical laboratory. Water is composed of two parts, hydrogen and one part oxygen. The slightest deviation from the formula is forbidden. There is no room for broadmindedness in music. The skilled director will not permit his first violin to play even so much as one-half note off the written note, chord, and key. There is no room for broadmindedness in the mathematics classroom. Neither geometry, calculus, nor trigonometry allows any variation from exact accuracy, even for old time's sake. The solution of the problem is either right or it is wrong (no tolerance there). There is no room for broadmindedness on the athletic field. The game is to be played according to the rules with no favors shown for 'charity's sake.' There is no room for broadmindedness in the garage. The mechanic there says the piston rings must fit the cylinder walls within one-thousandth part of an inch. Even between friend
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
PT 101Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: YOU still AMUSE ME so, I'll hang around if only for laughs.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:38 Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journeyDo you belong to a PERSONALITY CULT? Who said YOU amuse me? READ SLOWLY the Theology is greatly amusing I will check the dictionary/grammar I think "you" is a personal something or other. Theology is a thingy Why is this so confusing? Are you in AD-HOM land again. You are on the wrong site you need personality talk You can then discuss persons to your hearts content. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm glad we amuse one another. I find you and Dean embarrassingly funny!- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journeyWell as far as Theology it is pretty funny Actually it is hilariousLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years we've come to know one another. 2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at
great length. As I recall, you found the observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
A couple of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance
Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: John D Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject: Open door on the journey I am now in Singapore after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey. My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the
gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home. A friend of Traceys called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from
Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed. On the way to Durban she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she wasnt sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was churchianity and not Christ. This really opened the conversation, and I was able to talk about what Christ and the gospel means to me and my everyday life. It seems this was the kind of thing she
had been longing to hear, but had she only been hearing the trust Jesus now and go to heaven later, and dont go to hell (like we heard on Sunday); but no one was making it relevant to daily living. She said the church is always talking about what you have to do, but not about beingabout who you are and how you can be a complete person. She said she never felt the church was interest
Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
SO Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didnt get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Person
I should have know better than to suggest thinking. Shame on me! Do you enjoy saying nothing about something? - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:42 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Person There you go refering us to your "bibLe" again Why would I not find such import displayed in the HOLY BIBLE? Why do I need to go to those that ( IYO ) may or may not have REAL TRUTH Your philosophy is SELF-REFUTINGLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It is apparent to all that I'm no match for such as Dean, Kevin and, Judy. I'm just not in their league. Therefore.NO, I'm not leaving! I'd only suggest that you look up the discussion on the above as it took place in the history of the 'believing community'. You needn't and, probably won't, agree. It might however, give you some sense of the import attached to it vis a vis Jesus. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
No it is the ACT Things such as Love are the evidence/emblem Can one see your baptism into the death of Christ? That is a spiritual act performed by God One can however see the EVIDENCE of your Love. ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didnt get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Ignorance is in the dictionary. Look it up. It seems apparent to me that the most ignorant are often the proudest of it, like the types who plaster their cars with bumper stickers that say things like Visualize World Peace, etc. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 4:03 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Iz:If by 'showing one's ignorance' you mean 'those who disagree with me and mine then we disagree. Have you never come to occupy a position than you once denounced? I have. (Smart remarks OK but, not necessary) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 18:00 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Lance, showing one’s ignorance is not only legitimate but is an art in democracy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 11:23 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Nothing of the kind, Judy. I only wish for it to be legitimate in a democratic society. Apparently, you do not. I actually understand this kind of thinking. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 10:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? What's this "stream of consciousness" business... don't you think before you speak Lance? I'm all for "freedom of speech" - for instance you are free to disagree and state that "badmouthing GWB is a sign of intellectualism or intelligence" if you want. On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 10:06:59 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: This goes back to 'badmouthing GWB is at best ignorance', Judy. It's kinda like shutting down free speech'. Thus, the subsequent comment on democracy. I'm accustomed to my own stream of consciousness thinking but, surprised when I find it in others. (you) From: Judy Taylor What is your comment supposed to mean Lance? What does GWB have to do with what I have been discussing? As I have noted before - you are forever locked into the personal On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:11:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I believe GWB to be sincere also. From: Judy Taylor The lines may be blurred in countries like the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK (to all but the SP's :) However, they are quite apparent to anyone who has lived in a third world country recently. I was commenting on the article in the current National Geographic about the Ukraine which shows a photo of a peninsula there with mansions on it. Our Missions friend told me this is the fruit of graft, corruption, and the Russian Mafia which have risen to the top of the heap rather quickly. Our island born SIL can tell you the same about his homeland. Whoever rises to the top in Government treats the treasury like their own checkbook and their children are the ones who go overseas to attend the best schools. Of course there is a lot of it in the countries named above also, we observe Congress giving themselves raises all the time and a Congressman who just spent 20yrs in prison will still get his pension whereas a serviceman would have to forfeit his... so although imperfect - with checks and balances in place our system still beats any in the third world until the Lord returns to straighten it all out for us. Maranatha!! On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:47:36 -0500 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: The United States of America is not a Democracy Lance; it is a Democratic Republic - which is good training because God's Kingdom is not a "Democracy" either. You should be relieved that the will of fallen humanity is not on the throne. On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:28:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: How could one ask for more than to be present on a 'chat room' where ppl illustrate the absence of a democratic frame of mind? From: Judy Taylor Badmouthing GWB is at best ignorance. Our youngest girl's flatmate was a missionary to the Ukraine for 5yrs and has just gotten back from a trip to Germany by way of the Ukraine to visit her friends there. She speaks Russian and when the plane couldn't land because of fog was able to translate for the Ukrainians on board who had to return to Budapest and spend the night. She tells me that men come from all over to look for a wife in the Ukraine and there were two of them from the US on her flight one of whom must have been a disciple of whoever Lance is listening to because he badmouthed GWB
Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
The Pentecostal pastors/seminary teachers I speak with differ over this. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:43 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didnt get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks.
Re: [TruthTalk] View of REALITY
Your DOGMA just ran over my CARma man LOL It is self refuting? You might as well say reality is self refuting. you might as well walk/not walk on a local highway. ( IMO ) ; ) Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The so-called law of non-contradiction is, on occasion, self-refuting. Boy, are you out of touch! Bet it makes you feel smart though. Why not use it with the Pagans? Just make sure that you don't choose a Pagan with an education.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:33 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*I will speak with great plainess of speech for ya You SELF-REFUTE in your philosophy/statements What shall we do with the Law of NON CONTRADICTION? Banish it to America?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I reall do hope that when you 'ranters' rant that you speak with greater clarity than that which you exhibit on TT. Otherwise. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:19 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* IMO? Your opinion is your opinion that Real Truth is unknowable, does that extend to your opinions? OTOH Your opionion is that your opinions should be accepted EX CATHEDRA.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: NO, NO, NO! YOUR TRUTH, DEAN, is perceived by YOU absent any ad hom component. I'm with DH on this one as it (YOUR TRUTH - NOT ALWAYS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE TRUTH) is intrinsically ad hom. (IMO of course) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:30 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:08:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM*The latter.- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least
RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel.
I refuse to purchase anything else from her, as she uses part of the proceeds to support liberal causes. She is one of those enigmas who calls herself a Christ follower who is a ranting liberal. Only God knows where the dividing line lies in such cases. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:54 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I'm a big audiobook fan so, I listen to her (AL) read her own books. My response is pretty much the same as yours. The political influence of her early life is pervasive in her writings. (Yup, I do feel similarly re:'Lib' ranters!) - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:28 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. I would say that no one’s work is 100% perfect when it comes to honoring the Lord. Everyone is on a continuum including those you have mentioned. When I read Lamott I laugh out loud (especially what she wrote about her in a swimsuit!) and some of what she writes really touches me, but I often wonder if she really is saved. I know she has a whole lot of growing in godliness to do; still has a huge issue with rebellion. But I think she is a baby Believer. She, IMO, is on the outer fringes of those you mentioned—not in the same league. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:02 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. JRRT, CSL, John Updike, Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Lamott...Care to comment as to whether their's was a or b? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. And me. I use my imagination whenever I create a new design for a quilt, for example. Or decorate my home. Or write. Or make a collage (I’m creating one around Romans 8.) Don’t confuse a godly imagination with a worldly/fleshly one. (God used His when He created the Universe.) Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:47 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. John Lennon and three year olds On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:39:56 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Imagination anyone? From: Judy Taylor Hey Kevin, this is excellent - one question - is there room for "original thoughts?" On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:24:10 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is no room for broadmindedness in the chemical laboratory. Water is composed of two parts, hydrogen and one part oxygen. The slightest deviation from the formula is forbidden. There is no room for broadmindedness in music. The skilled director will not permit his first violin to play even so much as one-half note off the written note, chord, and key. There is no room for broadmindedness in the mathematics classroom. Neither geometry, calculus, nor trigonometry allows any variation from exact accuracy, even for old time's sake. The solution of the problem is either right or it is wrong (no tolerance there). There is no room for broadmindedness on the athletic field. The game is to be played according to the rules with no favors shown for 'charity's sake.' There is no room for broadmindedness in the garage. The mechanic there says the piston rings must fit the cylinder walls within one-thousandth part of an inch. Even between friends there cannot be any variation if 'the motor is to run smoothly.' How then shall we expect that broadmindedness shall rule in the realm of Christianity and morals? He that forsakes the truth of God, forsakes the God of truth. Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: TRUTH IS Jesus Christ. He is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:34:18 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..praise the God of Abe, Isaac, and Jacob, eh, C :) ? On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:27:40 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (2+2 is 4, the Earth revolves around the Sun, gravity dictates the ebb & flow of Earth's oceanic tides, 'truth came through Jesus Christ') On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:38:14 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: || - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 06, 2006 12:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] An Offensive Gospel. Jesus said "Thy Word is truth", not part of the truth. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail ma
RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
It is one evidence. Not the only evidence, certainly. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:52 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I don’t understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who don’t aren’t saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didn’t get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
YOU still AMUSE ME so, I'll hang around if only for
laughs.
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 08:38
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
Do you belong to a PERSONALITY CULT?
Who said YOU amuse me?
READ SLOWLY the Theology is greatly amusing
I will check the dictionary/grammar I think "you" is a personal something
or other. Theology is a thingy
Why is this so confusing?
Are you in AD-HOM land again. You are on the wrong site you need
personality talk
You can then discuss persons to your hearts content.
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm glad we amuse one another. I find
you and Dean embarrassingly funny!
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 08:22
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
Well as far as Theology it is pretty funny
Actually it is hilariousLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it
over the years we've come to know one another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at
great length. As I recall, you found the observations concerning it
('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
A couple of
questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like you
and is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and where
would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it?
John wrote:
She said she never felt the
church was interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is
for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus
came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for
heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
- Original Message -
From: John D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56
Subject: Open door on the journey
I am now in Singapore
after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been
interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due
to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in
New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my
cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in
the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of
sharing, wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at
the terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our
departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and
waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I
arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost
horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so each
flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After
a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we
finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A
missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in
turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at
midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the
remaining hour to his home.
A friend of Traceys
called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to
be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip
and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a
Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the
Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me
alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories
from Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual
stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting
natives. But her tone changed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Person
There you go refering us to your "bibLe" again Why would I not find such import displayed in the HOLY BIBLE? Why do I need to go to those that ( IYO ) may or may not have REAL TRUTH Your philosophy is SELF-REFUTINGLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It is apparent to all that I'm no match for such as Dean, Kevin and, Judy. I'm just not in their league. Therefore.NO, I'm not leaving! I'd only suggest that you look up the discussion on the above as it took place in the history of the 'believing community'. You needn't and, probably won't, agree. It might however, give you some sense of the import attached to it vis a vis Jesus. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
I will speak with great plainess of speech for ya You SELF-REFUTE in your philosophy/statements What shall we do with the Law of NON CONTRADICTION? Banish it to America?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I reall do hope that when you 'ranters' rant that you speak with greater clarity than that which you exhibit on TT. Otherwise. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:19 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*IMO? Your opinion is your opinion that Real Truth is unknowable, does that extend to your opinions? OTOH Your opionion is that your opinions should be accepted EX CATHEDRA.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: NO, NO, NO! YOUR TRUTH, DEAN, is perceived by YOU absent any ad hom component. I'm with DH on this one as it (YOUR TRUTH - NOT ALWAYS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE TRUTH) is intrinsically ad hom. (IMO of course) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:30 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:08:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM*The latter.- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* This is why I call you UNREGENERATE/LOST Lost in sin dull of hearing of God's word not mine.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ROTFLOL No you are in Sin 'cause YOU bore false witness. So there! Tak e that! Nya nya!! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Do you belong to a PERSONALITY CULT? Who said YOU amuse me? READ SLOWLY the Theology is greatly amusing I will check the dictionary/grammar I think "you" is a personal something or other. Theology is a thingy Why is this so confusing? Are you in AD-HOM land again. You are on the wrong site you need personality talk You can then discuss persons to your hearts content. Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm glad we amuse one another. I find you and Dean embarrassingly funny!- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journeyWell as far as Theology it is pretty funny Actually it is hilariousLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years we've come to know one another. 2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length. As I recall, you found the observations
concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journeyA couple
of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: John D Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject: Open door on the journey I am now in Singapore after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey. My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a
bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home. A friend of Traceys called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from Papua, and
asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed. On the way to Durban she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she wasnt sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was churchianity and not Christ. This really opened the conversation, and I was able to talk about what Christ and the gospel means to me and my everyday life. It seems this was the kind of thing she had been
longing to hear, but had she only been hearing the trust Jesus now and go to heaven later, and dont go to hell (like we heard on Sunday); but no one was making it relevant to daily living. She said the church is always talking about what you have to do, but not about beingabout who you are and how you can be a complete person. She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven. Obviously, when she dropped me off at Durban airport we could have gone on talking, but I sensed that her heart h
[TruthTalk] Person
It is apparent to all that I'm no match for such as Dean, Kevin and, Judy. I'm just not in their league. Therefore.NO, I'm not leaving! I'd only suggest that you look up the discussion on the above as it took place in the history of the 'believing community'. You needn't and, probably won't, agree. It might however, give you some sense of the import attached to it vis a vis Jesus.
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Is that an attack on as you put it my Person? Is such synonomous with AD-HOM? Shall we discuss your favorite subject and change the site name to Personality Talk? Can we get a group hug first?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Neither. It is who I perceive you to be as a 'person'.- Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 07:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? Is it the two sentences from me or the Five BIBLE verses that you consider a RANT?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DAVEH: I can understand you saying that about Lance, Kevin.but, why did you include Judge Dean in that rant?Kevin Deegan wrote: You & Lance can attack all you want. God says and eternity will reveal the wisdom of winning souls! Pr 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise. 1 co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. JN 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. 2 Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/8/2006 5:23:10 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?DH:TT has a NEW POPE! You're just going to have to adjust. IMO your mystification re:SP types ain't a mystery. Preach the (their) gospel (their doctrine) by any means whatsoever. As they see it the end justifies the means. Though you and I are most assuredly not of one mind as to Jesus yet, we are seen as occupying the same camp. That camp is the camp of the lost/damned/bound for hell. I do see why they do what they do. This is the same sort of logic employed by their commander in chief over the Middle East. cd: But Lance you said that it was fair earlier to moderate using those principles-and even earlier that that you said that you were glad I was moderator-now only hatred exists? What happened? Pope is a little much-How about Bishop Moderator-or better yet Moderator Bishop-nay.. still doesn't work..O' well we can keep trying ?The lost comments are correct Lance-This is not meant to be mean to you but to help you understand-One cannot refuse as much of the Bible as you do and be one of God's-it doesn't work that way Lance-I would much rather say this now and get you to understand the principle behind my words than to be there when God say's "depart from me". At that time it will then be too late-I fear that will happen to you.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. Yahoo! MailBring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
I'm glad we amuse one another. I find you and Dean
embarrassingly funny!
- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 08:22
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on
the journey
Well as far as Theology it is pretty funny
Actually it is hilariousLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it
over the years we've come to know one another.
2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at
great length. As I recall, you found the observations concerning it
('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 09, 2006 06:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open
door on the journey
A couple of
questions Lance;
1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and
is "preterism" his gospel?
2. What is "personhood" and where would
one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it?
John wrote:
She said she never felt the
church was interested in who she was as a person.
I told her that the gospel is for
now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to
redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for
heaven
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
- Original Message -
From: John D Wilson
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56
Subject: Open door on the journey
I am now in Singapore after
a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been
interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to
an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New
York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver
was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I
opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each
other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South
African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two
hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for
de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via
Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto
landing facility wasnt working so each flight was brought in
manually, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the
gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited
50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for
the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours
and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me
and drive me the remaining hour to his home.
A friend of Traceys called
Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban
on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there
for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone
to Bible school and then turned away from the Lord. During the
weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been
intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from Papua, and asked a lot about
missionaries and culturethe usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and
westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed.
On the way to Durban she
opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more
personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been
brought up in a Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and
reached the point where she wasnt sure whether she had totally rejected
Christianity or was in middle ground. I suggested that what she
had rejected was churchianity and not Christ. This really opened the
conversation, and I was able to talk about what Christ and the gospel
means to me and my everyday life. It seems this was the
kind of thing she had been longing to hear, but had she only been
hearing the trust Jesus now and go to heaven later, and dont go to
hell (like we heard on Sunday); but no one was making it relevant to
daily living. She said the church is always talking about what you have
to do, but not about beingabout who you are and how you can be a
complete person. She said she never felt the ch
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Personhood? The theolgy is hilarious, that some to this view is nothing but SAD!Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hmm! Are you sure your recall does not concern someone else Lance? I don't remember commenting on this and I certainly do not find it humorous. Jesus did not come to put a bandaid on the "old man" which would be our flesh or "personhood" The invitation is to become part of a "new creation" - old things pass away and all things become new. On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 07:02:08 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years we've come to know one another. 2.
'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length. As I recall, you found the observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journeyA couple of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: John D Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject: Open door on the journey I am now in Singapore after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey.
My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so
each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home. A friend of Traceys called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed
she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed. On the way to Durban she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she wasnt sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was churchianity and not Christ. This really opened the conversation, and I was able to talk about what Christ and the
gospel means to me and my everyday life. It seems this was the kind of thing she had been longing to hear, but had she only been hearing the trust Jesus now and go to heaven later, and dont go to hell (like we heard on Sunday); but no one was making it relevant to daily living. She said the church is always talking about what you have to do, but not about beingabout who you are and how you can be a complete person. She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven. Obviously, when she dropped me off at Durban airport we could have gone on talking, but I sensed that her heart had been gripped and hope revived. As I sat waiting for my flight, and all through my 12 hours to Singapore, I could not stop thinking about that conversation and that this was one of those God-ordained moments that takes your breath
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
See my post to Dean re:clarity! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 08:21 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey It is in a book Not THE BOOKJudy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A couple of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: John D Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject: Open door on the journey I am now in Singapore after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey. My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home. A friend of Traceys called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed. On the way to Durban she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she wasnt sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was churchianity and not Christ. This really opened the conversation, and I was able to talk about what Christ and the gospel means to me and my everyday life. It seems this was the kind of thing she had been longing to hear, but had she only been hearing the trust Jesus now and go to heaven later, and dont go to hell (like we heard on Sunday); but no one was making it relevant to daily living. She said the church is always talking about what you have to do, but not about beingabout who you are and how you can be a complete person. She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven. Obviously, when she dropped me off at Durban airport we could have gone on talking, but I sensed that her heart had been gripped and hope revived. As I sat waiting for my flight, and all through my 12 hours to Singapore, I could not stop thinking about that conversation and that this was one of those God-ordained moments that takes your breath away. I was praising God and praying for Natalie all the way. Keep her in your prayers too. Today, Gloria travels to London to spend time with her Dad. I will
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
Well as far as Theology it is pretty funny Actually it is hilariousLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1. I've no idea as we've never discussed it over the years we've come to know one another. 2. 'Personhood' Judy, has been discussed at great length. As I recall, you found the observations concerning it ('personhood') both ridiculous and humorous.- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:51 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journeyA couple of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that
Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: John D Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject: Open door on the journey
I am now in Singapore after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey. My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our
turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home. A friend of Traceys called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round
trip and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed. On the way to Durban she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she wasnt sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was
in middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was churchianity and not Christ. This really opened the conversation, and I was able to talk about what Christ and the gospel means to me and my everyday life. It seems this was the kind of thing she had been longing to hear, but had she only been hearing the trust Jesus now and go to heaven later, and dont go to hell (like we heard on Sunday); but no one was making it relevant to daily living. She said the church is always talking about what you have to do, but not about beingabout who you are and how you can be a complete person. She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven. Obviously, when she dropped me off at Durban airport we could have gone on talking, but I sensed that her heart had been gripped and hope
revived. As I sat waiting for my flight, and all through my 12 hours to Singapore, I could not stop thinking about that conversation and that this was one of those God-ordained moments that takes your breath away. I was praising God and praying for Natalie all the way. Keep her in your prayers too. Today, Gloria travels to London to spend time with her Dad. I will speak at the Asia Cross Cultural training Institute today and tonight am meeting with a man from Myanmar who has seen the Yali Story.
Tomorrow I will meet my Taoist friend Shankar. Greetings, John __Do You Yahoo!
Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Open door on the journey
It is in a book Not THE BOOKJudy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A couple of questions Lance; 1. Is John Wilson preterist like you and is "preterism" his gospel? 2. What is "personhood" and where would one get the idea that Jesus had come to redeem it? John wrote: She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:23:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: - Original Message - From: John D Wilson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 07, 2006 18:56 Subject: Open door on the journey I am now in Singapore after a brief stop over in South Africa with Jonathan and Tracey. My journey out has been interesting: First of all a one and a half hour delay in Toronto due to an ice and snow storm on the eastern seaboard. When I arrived in New York, I had to transfer from Le Guardia to JFK airport and my cab driver was a Christian, had something about Jesus loves you in the cab, so I opened a conversation and we had a great time of sharing, wishing each other Gods blessing as he dropped me off at the terminal for South African Airways. Then in New York our departure was delayed two hours because of back-logged flights and waiting our turn for de-icing. More than 20 hours later I arrived in Johannesberg via Senegal. The heavy rain was almost horizontal; the radar auto landing facility wasnt working so each flight was brought in manually, but we touched down safely. After a 20 minute wait at the gate for a bridge operator to show up, we finally disembarked and waited 50 minutes for our luggage. A missed connection meant going for the next flight to Durban which in turn was delayed by almost 1½ hours and I reached Durban at midnight. Jonathan was there to meet me and drive me the remaining hour to his home. A friend of Traceys called Natalie was staying the weekend with them. She had to be in Durban on Monday so offered to save Jonathan the round trip and drove me there for my flight to Singapore. She had grown up in a Christian home, gone to Bible school and then turned away from the Lord. During the weekend, I sensed she wanted to talk to me alone. She had been intrigued by Jonathans and my stories from Papua, and asked a lot about missionaries and culturethe usual stuff about imposing our beliefs and westernism on unsuspecting natives. But her tone changed. On the way to Durban she opened the door for me to talk to her about the gospel in a more personal way. She told me early in our 1 hour drive that, she had been brought up in a Christian home but had questioned her beliefs and reached the point where she wasnt sure whether she had totally rejected Christianity or was in middle ground. I suggested that what she had rejected was churchianity and not Christ. This really opened the conversation, and I was able to talk about what Christ and the gospel means to me and my everyday life. It seems this was the kind of thing she had been longing to hear, but had she only been hearing the trust Jesus now and go to heaven later, and dont go to hell (like we heard on Sunday); but no one was making it relevant to daily living. She said the church is always talking about what you have to do, but not about beingabout who you are and how you can be a complete person. She said she never felt the church was interested in who she was as a person. I told her that the gospel is for now, not just for eternity; that Jesus came to redeem our personhood, not just save our souls for heaven. Obviously, when she dropped me off at Durban airport we could have gone on talking, but I sensed that her heart had been gripped and hope revived. As I sat waiting for my flight, and all through my 12 hours to Singapore, I could not stop thinking about that conversation and that this was one of those God-ordained moments that takes your breath away. I was praising God and praying for Natalie all the way. Keep her in your prayers too. Today, Gloria travels to London to spend time with her Dad. I will speak at the Asia Cross Cultural training Institute today and tonight am meeting with a man from Myanmar who has seen the Yali Story. Tomorrow I will meet my Taoist friend Shankar. Greetings, John Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Re: [TruthTalk] ***************Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*************
IMO? Your opinion is your opinion that Real Truth is unknowable, does that extend to your opinions? OTOH Your opionion is that your opinions should be accepted EX CATHEDRA.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: NO, NO, NO! YOUR TRUTH, DEAN, is perceived by YOU absent any ad hom component. I'm with DH on this one as it (YOUR TRUTH - NOT ALWAYS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE TRUTH) is intrinsically ad hom. (IMO of course) - Original Message - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:30 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM* - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/9/2006 3:08:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - ModeratorcommentADHOM*Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?DAVEH: I'll let Judge Dean answer that, Kevin..I say/demand again " Get the "Church of Jesus Christ" name off your temple Pagan!!! cd: Hey- that is Judge Moore to you buddy. You are the one that put a separation between Christianity and Mormonism-in you comment -and when I declare that by doing so this is Paganism you state crying . My Comment: Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? Your reply:So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mean? I called you a Mormon-to which you do not deny-You called me a Christian to wit I did not deny. By doing so you separated the two-and as receiving the first (Mormon) and tagging me with the second(Christian) you have clearly showed yourself to be non Christian-To be non-Christian is to be a Pagan. You DaveH are a Pagan.The fact that you do not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ is a deeper conformation of that point. Get over it the truth is not an Ad. Homein attack- or state a petition to impeach me.I am not Judge Dean -by your standards isn't that Ad. Homein attacking-better stop or I will have to go to the Moderator.Hey -Judge Moore Moderate this!Kevin Deegan wrote: Are you implying Dean called you such NAMES?Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups?DAVEH: Hwell, I hadn't thought about dissecting you guys, but it is a tempting thought you've given me! ;-) Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?DAVEH: LOL..Sometimes I think SPers are their own worst enemy! You have the power to push the button that bars me from TT, Dean. If you do such, I don't think your problems will all go with me. I've been called a pagan here, a snake in the grass, satan's messenger boyand I've been falsely accused of condoning violence against SPers. So let me ask you, Dean..Is it the Christian in you doing such-or are you just plain mea n?Dean Moore wrote: cd:Dave why are you trying to fuel dissection between the groups??Is it the Mormon in you doing such-or are you just plain mean?. - Original Message - F rom: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 3/7/2006 11:03:40 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator commentADHOM*The latter.- Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 10:10 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT.DAVEH: Is that is because you do not consider yourself a protected friend of the moderator and fear reprisal, Lance .or is it because you have a measure of respect for TT rules and other TTers?Lance Muir wrote: So Kevin, at least I know where we stand. Thanks for the clarity in your judgment. IFO would not have such an assessment of anyone on TT. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 09:17 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* This is why I call you UNREGENERATE/LOST Lost in sin dull of hearing of God's word not mine.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ROTFLOL No you are in Sin 'cause YOU bore false witness. So there! Tak e that! Nya nya!! - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 07:43 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] ***Respose - Moderator comment ADHOM* You are in SIN you bore false witness Du 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong; Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had t
Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?
Of course what else is NEW? Is it because you are preparing an answer on you own dollar$ supporting WMD?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I won't BE answering you on this, Judy.- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 09, 2006 06:25 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk?You still haven't answered my query ... What does "teachable" look like to you? or How do you - Lance Muir determine whether or not one is "teachable?" On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:13:44 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:1. I DO NOT BELIEVE that none on TT is teachable! 2. 'personal brand of humility'? NO! From: Judy Taylor I like what Iz says also Lance; but I am curious about your definition since you are constantly making public note of the fact that noone who differs from you on TT is "teachable" I'd appreciate hearing it from you - not DM, BT, JS, Caroline, Debie or Slade, especially since you have been so critical of DM and accuse him of being dense or thick or something like this. IMO BT has nothing to teach others on this subject until he begins to demonstrate some of it in his own life and this applies to others on your list also. Why do you never respond to questions and \always seem to defer them to someone else. Is this your own personal brand of humility? On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 05:00:31 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:One could not but AMEN that, Iz. Well said.From: ShieldsFamily Being teachable is a state of heart. A lack of pride. A humility. A brokenness. Eagerness to repent. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirIt is not necessary, Judy. DM, BT, JS, Caroline, Debbie & Slade have all attempted to do so, unsuccessfully. I perceive each to be superior to me so.. From: Judy Taylor Can you describe what you call "being teachable" looks like for us Lance? On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:33:12 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: There is a rather large distinction between agreeing with you Kevin, and being teachable. From: Kevin Deegan Your not teachableLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Did you send your kids to SS? Do you have no evangelistic mtgs where you are? Do some in attendance at either ever get converted? Do you have other names you prefer over 'conversion', Kevin. That you Kevin, believe yourself 'fully known (Paul's) doctrine' I've no doubt. I'd recommend to the moderator that we all take a hiatus from writing and, just let you teach us. From: Kevin Deegan Paul said:But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mysteryBTW what is wrong with preaching Jesus Christ?or should we preach SS & Conversion at our evangelistic meetings?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: DH:TT has a NEW POPE! You're just going to have to adjust. IMO your mystification re:SP types ain't a mystery. Preach the (their) gospel (their doctrine) by any means whatsoever. As they see it the end justifies the means. Though you and I are most assuredly not of one mind as to Jesus yet, we are seen as occupying the same camp. That camp is the camp of the lost/damned/bound for hell. I do see why they do what they do. This is the same sort of logic employed by their commander in chief over the Middle East. - Original Message - From: Dave Hansen To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 02:03Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 'spirit' of truthtalk? to clear the confusion one should be able to prove their charge they make against others. DAVEH: That's what I asked you to do when you made a false accusation about me (condoning violence) a few months back. Your response was that you didn't know how to use the archives, and that is was my responsibility to prove that I didn't say something that I didn't say. Which is logically illogical.So what is you better idea?DAVEH: Practice what you preach.By the way I can change the rules if there is good reason to do so-but you cannot.DAVEH: Ahhh..May I assume this is your perception of fairness?!?!?! When I joined TT, it was proudly proclaimed there was only one rule in TT. It seems several moderators have put that fallacy to rest.you show no hesitation provoking me-Why is that?DAVEH: I'm not sure, Dean. I find SPers to be cut from a different bolt of cloth. It seems like some SPers live in a different world, where they are in constant battle with everybody, including some that at first appear to be on their side of the fence. Other than the few Spers I've found on TT, I really don't have much experience
Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'?
READ THE POST Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz Perhaps IZ believes being IN Christ, IN the Spirit Baptized INTO is the act of being a Christian as the Bible states. All others that are WITHOUT or out side of that transaction of God's grace are NOT Christian. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. MY O MY we have answered the UNITY question and that when JD is not here! Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Wow!, a voice of clarity amidst ...who knows what? Thanks. However Iz, my question actually was 'Is speaking in tongues THE evidence of having been baptized in/with the Spirit'? In some circles this is Pentecostal doctrine and, must be signed off on (?) by all pastors. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 08, 2006 17:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? Yes, I think the snake handlers are testing God and are out of line. I dont understand what you want to know about speaking in tongues. Do I? Yes. Do I think those who dont arent saved? No. Any other question? Iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 4:00 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I don't mind funnin' even at my expense. Why would I as I've done so often, often myself. However, shall I ask of you, Iz, whether you believe the Appalachian snake handlers to be testing God or, obeying His Word? I note that upon raising an actual matter (HS & tongues) everyone fled to the hills. We all know that none of you has access, through the Word of God, to THE understanding on ALL issues. Does anyone of you brash souls wish to differ on this point? As our beloved moderator has said ...Hm...what has he actually said in the last 24 hours consistent with a week ago? Any takers? - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 07, 2006 20:06Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? I guess Paul went overboard, too, when he shook that snake off his hand and didnt get sick. Such a literal guy. iz From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:28 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Addendum to 'snakes anyone'? That was an reference to the 'Appalachian snake handlers'. Thus, those who've gone a touch overboard on literalism. Look in the mirror folks. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
