Re: [TruthTalk] The role of religion in a secular society
In a message dated 12/3/2004 10:42:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Religion is man's way of approaching God; Jesus Christ is God's way of approaching man." I like that analogy. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Perceptions of the Divine Messiah in Intertestamental Jewish ...
Of course I haven't read many of the references you refer to but I enjoyed the article. It was interesting, informative and food for thought. Let us know how the professor liked it. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Rush Limbaugh speaks
In a message dated 11/24/2004 10:40:03 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thats right, ladies and gentlemen. Rush will be on C-Span 1 at 9:10 my time (left coast time) -- tonight. John I saw part of it. He doesn't mince words does he? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral covenant
In a message dated 11/24/2004 5:55:31 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What, pray tell, do you find 'interesting' at both levels? The preschool level gets the same point across but in words that little guys can understand. Here is the text of the little take home board book that coordinates with the lessons. What's Faith (the first few pages are the Christmas story since it is December) Then they get into Abraham God keeps his promises (Genesis 12-21) This is January God gave Abraham a promise. One day his family would be as many as the stars in the sky Abraham obeyed God and made good choices. When God told Abraham and Sarah they would have a baby, they laughed and laughed. They did not understand, but God did what he said he would do,,,He gave them a baby. God keeps his promises! God loves families (Genesis 24,25 This is Februrary Abraham and Sarah thanked God for Isaac. Isaac grew up to be a man... And married Rebekah. Issac prayed for a baby, And God answered his prayers. Isaac and Rebekah loved Jacob and Esau. They tanked God for their family. God loves families! Of course the artwork is on each page. I think it is interesting because they give the preschoolers the Word in simple terms that they can understand. The Adult lessons coordinate so the whole family is involved in the same concepts and hopefully it will make for great family time.
Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral covenant
In a message dated 11/23/2004 9:16:13 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Laura, bless your heart. I was kind of hoping for a little more meat on the bone. But "yes" may be profoundly to the point. I guess I am being simplistic but in order for God's plan to work (I realize that God knew what Abraham would do) he had to obey. We have been studying Genesis this quarter and I am once again amazed at these men. Can you imagine God appearing to a righteous man today and telling him to build an ark because though it had never rained it was going to (Noah) or in Abraham's case telling him that he is going to give him a son at his age and that he will have more or as many heirs as the stars? It kind of amuses me to think of that happening today. I wonder if I would believe someone who told me that! My daughter is an editor and her publishing house just finished a whole curriculum that encompasses all age levels from Preschool to adult. It has been interesting to read some of the lessons on a "lower" level and then study the same material on an adult level. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral covenant
In a message dated 11/23/2004 8:08:01 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Was his obedience necessary to the continuance and fulfillment of the covenant promise? I haven't really thought about it. I think I'd have to say yes. Anyone else disagree? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral covenant
In a message dated 11/23/2004 5:26:50 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: while he was asleep, Laura? how does this stuff work; e.g., what's the relationship betw sleeping and dreaming and/or 'visions'; e.g., even you and the seer jt 'see' during your dreams don't you(?)--in a way, although perhaps it's ovrlapping with Freudian modernity or something, isn't that vision (a) vision(?)...of what is anthr question(?)...food for thought... Sorry about that I was talking about something else. :0) Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Unilateral covenant
Abraham was an active participant. He didn't just sit back and let God move - he had to ober God and do what God told him to do. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Covenants
In a message dated 11/23/2004 4:46:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Midrash, I think, merely sated that Cain had no previous event upon which to base the severity of his action... and this may very well be true. However, in trying to read the best out of the situation, we cannot ignore the previous paragraph where God tells Cain to watch his attitude. As far as the sacrifice goes, It is probably not the sacrifice that was incorrect. Torah gives accounts of sacrifices other than blood/flesh/animal sacrifices. Gen 4:5b-7 indicates a severe problem between the two men and God is addressing it with Cain (cf. Matt 5:23-24). The Prophets often speak of sacrifices not being given in the proper "spirit" as well. I the end, the sacrifice (even if it contained all the right physical components) was an improper sacrifice because Cain's innards were at war. -- slade I agree Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Covenants
In a message dated 11/22/2004 8:38:36 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've always wondered what the mark was as well. I've heard some people erroneously say it is dark skin. Others a lightning bolt like Harry Potter (or some other insignia). The term for mark [in Hebrew] is Ot. In the KJV, it's used as such: sign (x60), token (x14), ensign (x2), miracle (x2), mark (x1). It's also as consent (x1). Strong's classifies the word as: a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token. Thanks for responding. I read several commentators views and only one thought it was actually a physical mark. The article you sent was interesting too. It is also interesting that some actually say the murder he committed was actually not a transgression because the law against murder was not yet given. The only transgression was bringing the wrong offering. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Two Covenants
In a message dated 11/21/2004 8:50:12 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Cain was fearful of civilizations not defined in the biblical message except to indicate that they were present in his time. A mark or sign was given to Cain to protect him I think it would be interesting to discuss what that mark or sign was. I understand that it was to protect him. It is also interesting that noone else was given a similar mark or sign. I'd be interested in what others think about this. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Tearing Down
In a message dated 11/21/2004 4:40:18 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For the record, Perry had complained to me how people ignored his posts of> instruction and he did not know what to do to get people to comply. Perry> and I both have desired people to quote only portions of people's posts,as> you see I do by example. I don't respond to a lot of posts. There are days when I get 75 posts or more and it is all I can do to skim them. I try to seriously read those that are not simply one word responses. Sometimes I have to unsub for awhile when it gets overwhelming. There is no point in responding if I am going to just say the same thing someone else has said. If it is a thread that doesn't seem to go anywhere I just follow the subject line and delete. Laura
Fwd: [TruthTalk] Repentance
My view of repentance is to turn from sin. Doesn't the Bible tell us that unless we repent we will perish? When we turn from sin we turn toward Christ. Am I being too simplistic? laura --- Begin Message --- This could be a good time to make a few random comments on repentance. A few days ago Terry asked John why the outline of parts of his faith didn't include the word repentance. Most people on this forum believe that repentance is necessary for salvation; they see it as a necessary step or condition for God to do His act of justification in our hearts. Some may find it interesting to note that John's gospel does not use the word 'repent' once. The concept of repentance is completely absent. Now John states that the purpose of his gospel is to bring people to faith in Christ (John 20:31). Knowing this is his purpose we must ask ourselves why John doesn't use the concept of repentance to illustrate the nature of the gospel. Instead John uses the concept of belief. Here is Charles Ryrie regarding the absence of repentance in the book of John: "And yet John surely had many opportunities to use it in the events of our Lord’s life which he recorded. It would have been most appropriate to use repent or repentance in the account of the Lord’s conversation with Nicodemus. But believe is the word used (John 3:12, 15). So, If Nicodemus needed to repent, believe must be a synonym; else how could the Lord have failed to use the word repent when talking to him? To the Samaritan harlot, Christ did not say repent. He told her to ask (John 4:10), and when her testimony and the Lord’s spread to other Samaritans, John recorded not that they repented but that they believed (vss. 39, 41-42). There are about fifty more occurrences of “believe” or “faith” in the Gospel of John, but not one use of “repent.” The climax is John 20:31: “These have been written that you may believe . . . and that believing you may have life in His name.” (Charles C. Ryrie, So Great Salvation, Victor Books, p. 98)." The Greek word for repentance is 'metanoia' which means 'a change of mind'. It represents a 180 degree turn in the opposite direction. What it does not include is what many of us add to the concept of repentance which is - feeling sorry for something we have done. The fact that we equate 'feeling sorry' with repentance illustrates how we have integrated the Roman Catholic doctrine of penitence with repentance. Repentance, New Testament style, is belief or faith. It is God breaking into our fallen minds, transforming them so that we are able to become free. We must always keep in mind who the author and finisher of our faith is: Jesus Christ. He who began the good work in us is faithful to complete it. No act (repentance, belief, faith, baptism, circumcision, obedience) of our own can save us. It is God and God only who saves. We are given the grace to respond. I think it would be worthwhile to extrapolate these thoughts to a discussion of what occurs in forgiveness since repentance and forgiveness are often closely linked in our minds. For further research on the Greek words for repentance please see the following article: http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1989ii/Wilkin.html. Jonathan Hughes From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:57 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 119 - 138 of 613 Commands In a message dated 11/17/2004 11:49:39 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt: How do you know this woman was repentant? I've never heard that before but I have heard ppl comment on the hypocrisy of bringing her to Jesus and letting the man involved off (she didn't commit adultery by herself); also if there is so much grace and warm fuzzies going on how is it that Paul was scourged five times by the Jews while doing the Lord's ministry? Would Christ have forgiven her and sent her on her way if she was not repentant? Laura This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above. Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s’y rattachant contiennent de l’information confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer immédiatement son expéditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute copie (électronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information par une personne autre que le destinataire visé est interdite et peut être illégale. Merci de votre coopération relativement au message susmentionné. --- End Mes
Re: [TruthTalk] 119 - 138 of 613 Commands
In a message dated 11/17/2004 11:49:39 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt: How do you know this woman was repentant? I've never heard that before but I have heard ppl comment on the hypocrisy of bringing her to Jesus and letting the man involved off (she didn't commit adultery by herself); also if there is so much grace and warm fuzzies going on how is it that Paul was scourged five times by the Jews while doing the Lord's ministry? Would Christ have forgiven her and sent her on her way if she was not repentant? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Re:A Bookseller's 'wish'
In a message dated 11/16/2004 8:34:31 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm currently reading "The Jew and His Home" by A.E. Kitov (English Translation, of course) I like it because of all the wisdom...especially regarding Beit Shalom (peace in the home and how to acquire it and how to keep it). Some of the chapters Know Your Home The Preciousness of Marriage Where Joy Dwells "And I will Dwell in Their Midst" Domestic Bliss (Shalom Bayit).(we use a different dialect of Hebrew, hence the differences in spelling here and my spelling above) A Liberal Spirit A Woman of Valor Modesty and Conduct Esteem Faithfulness and Devotion On Being Content with Little Hospitality Relatives and Neighbors Kay Sounds like one that everyone could benefit from! Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands
In a message dated 11/15/2004 1:50:42 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe Jesus had a copy of the Newer Testament in his back pocket as He walked in Israel. Kay Yeah wonder if it was NIV, KJV or maybe the Message? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] The infamous Billy T
In a message dated 11/2/2004 1:24:20 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: =Vote early and often.Terry I love it!!! From the sound of things it seems like some in some states did just that!
Re: [TruthTalk] The infamous Billy T
In a message dated 11/2/2004 10:22:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:23:59 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:It is snowing, 13 degrees, and the wind is blowing sleet into your face at 30 miles an hour. Lovely.Isn't it wierd how different the weather is? It was 82 here yesterday and sticky - today is 76 and we have flood watches for later on and tomorrow is supposed to be 66. The weather is as diverse as our opinions are! Hope you are enjoying the winter preview! LauraJohn --- Actually, we are having a great time. My time with Bill was great because it is always a good thing to fellowship those of like mind. I am busy to day and tomorrow setting tile for my daughter. And today, it is beautiful, will be 45 and life is good. Vote your conscience -- whether unconsciously or not. John-- I voted My Granddaughter was thrilled. Her dad took her and she got to push the buttons - She is all about this election and quite bold about her choices! Hope your tile setting goes well - I have floor people coming tomorrow to replace my vinyl but opted not to upgrade. They installed it incorrectly and have to do it over. Of course it has only taken them 4 years to get here - Slow Slow Slow!! At least it is not costing me anythingl LOL Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] The infamous Billy T
In a message dated 11/2/2004 9:15:57 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Yeah Laura, but the difference is that the weather will change.. wishful thinking maybe!!! Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] The infamous Billy T
In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:23:59 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is snowing, 13 degress, and the wind is blowing sleet into your face at 30 miles an hour. Lovely. Isn't it wierd how different the weather is? It was 82 here yesterday and sticky - today is 76 and we have flood watches for later on and tomorrow is supposed to be 66. The weather is as diverse as our opinions are! Hope you are enjoying the winter preview! Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] The Kryptonite Theory of Sin
In a message dated 10/29/2004 8:49:49 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judyt notes: When Messiah cleansed the temple He made the observation that it was full of thieves and robbers - not a real good recommendation as far as who was eligible to do what at the altar or in the temple itself.. I didn't think it was the priests who were thieves and robbers. I thought it was being used to sell things - animals for sacrifices and to change money and that the people engaged in those activities were the thieves and robbers. I always thought of it as being used for a bazaar type atmosphere. They would tell the people that they had to buy the animals there because they were without blemish. They also made the visitors change their money there and cheated them Where did I get that? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] The Kryptonite Theory of Sin
In a message dated 10/29/2004 8:51:30 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Slade Henson wrote: See if this is what you mean... Last month at work, the ISO9001 dude came through and asked me about my area and how I ran it. He also asked me what the company's ISO statement means to me. I told him (something like), "I see God as my employer. The work I do, the products I use to perform that duty, and the attitude I portray to my fellow workmen and the public needs to be pleasing to my Employer, otherwise I have failed as His employee. If it is pleasing in the eye of God, I have accomplished my goal and the product I produce will exceed any and all expectations." (The next day, the ISO/Safety/Whatever Officer told me the only reason we maintained our ISO standing is because of my area.) This, I think, attests to a non-compartmentalized lifestyle dedicated to Love of God and Love of Neighbor. By loving God at work, I automatically love my neighbor who was created in the Image of God. - sladeCol.3:23 at work. Nice testimony. It glorities our Lord.Terry DITTO Laura
[TruthTalk] Reasons to vote
I thought this might generage some interesting posts Laura Top 10 Moral Issues Facing America From Chuck Colson... Every Christian needs to go to the polls on November 2 with firm convictions about how to cast their ballots. To help, we've put together this Top 10 list of the significant moral issues facing America today. I hope that it will elevate the tone of the debate and assist you as you prepare to exercise your God-given trust to vote. For more information, you can order a CD from the BreakPoint Store with a compilation of BreakPoint commentaries in which I address these moral issues. 1. Sanctity of Life: Preserving sanctity of life by resisting the encroachment of abortion, euthanasia, cloning, and embryonic stem cell research. See BreakPoint Commentary, "Building Better Babies." 2. Religious Liberty: Defending the persecuted Church and others of faith around the world, and defending freedom of religion here at home. See BreakPoint Commentary, "Faithful Unto Death." 3. Human Rights: Protecting human rights, whether it's stopping sex-trafficking, slavery in Sudan, or the spread of AIDS. See BreakPoint Commentary, "An Evil We Can't Ignore." 4. Marriage: Protecting by law the traditional heterosexual definition of the family. See BreakPoint Commentary, "De-Lovely Couples." 5. Terrorism: Strengthening America in the War on Terrorism and in the clash of civilizations against radical Islam. See BreakPoint Commentary, "Terrorism, War and Evil." 6. Judiciary Roles: Restoring the constitutional role of the Supreme Court and restricting judicial activism. See BreakPoint Commentary, "Free-for-all." 7. Faith-based solutions: Advocating faith-based solutions to societal problems. See BreakPoint Commentary, "Second Chances." 8. Marginalized Citizens: Caring for the poor and restoring prisoners. Preserving the financial stability of health care for the elderly and disabled. See BreakPoint Commentary, "Problems of the Heart." 9. Education: Improving education and promoting choices within the educational system. See BreakPoint Commentary, "Lectures on the Hill." 10. Media: Challenging the negative impact of the mass media on culture -- including speaking out against pornography, sexual exploitation, and violence. See BreakPoint Commentary, "TV Unplugged." Call 1-877-3-CALLBP (1-877-322-5527) and request the audio CD âSetting Your Moral Compassâ (suggested donation: $20). You can also order the CD online from the BreakPoint Store.
Fwd: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands
I am interested in Kay's post too after the weekend! If she has a houseful of company she may change her mind about not being a man :0) Hope you have a nice weekend and that you enjoy your company. Laura --- Begin Message --- NT is commentary on OT. The partition may be down, Judy, but there are still roles. I certainly don't want to be a man. God has ONE set of rules for ALL of His family. Kay -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Friday, 29 October, 2004 07.15To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands Judyt: Yes I'd be interested in the 1050 after this weekend Kay; hope all goes well for you. I had never considered the NT a rule book... BTW Christians are to be a nation of kings and priests, and didn't Jesus break down the wall of partition between Jews and Greeks, male and female etc. do the rules address this also? On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 06:24:12 -0400 "Slade Henson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Hi Judy: 613 commands in the Torah, yes. Directly from God, not man. Why? Because God says Be Holy, because I AM holy. This is HOW a holy, set-apart people live. This is how you deal with this, this is how you deal with that. God has a whole system of government set up. Gee, too bad we didn't follow it in the first place. Maybe then our courts wouldn't be as messed up as they are. I don't understand WHY people freak out over 613 commands. They're reiterated in the newer Testament. In fact, the newer Testament contains 1,050 commands! Yeshua made the commands fuller, harder even. Yes, there are 613 commands. However, YOU don't have to follow each of them. There are commands for men, which you're not a man, so they don't apply. I know you're not a Levitical priest, so, whack away a whole SLEW of the 613. Let's see...how about instructions (law) for you in particular since you're a woman.Not to get personal, but I believe you're an older woman, correct? Well, then you can knock out the laws for Niddah (the monthly cycle) as well as the child bearing laws. When you were raising your children, didn't you have House Rules? Why did you give the Rules of the House to your children? To keep them safe? To keep order? To protect? God did the same thing for us. He's a loving Father who wants to keep His children safe and holy. Did you ever give your children a rule that they didn't understand? You knew the reasoning behind it and it was probably a good reason. God does the same thing. Every single one of the 613 fall under TWO categories. Every single law of the 613 have to do with either A. Loving God, or B. Loving your Neighbor. Funny, our house rules are just like that. I bet yours were, too. Kabbalah is something different, Judy. It's a much deeper spiritual application. I would not suggest reading it. There are also two different types of Kabbalah. God Himself says the laws He gives are "not far from you". It is NOT impossible. Maybe we should list all the laws and see exactly how many apply. Would that help? Being worn out due to learning a new one every day is something Paul was attempting for others coming in. It's what he speaks of in Acts...Kay's paraphrase Paul and the Council: Okay, we've got to DO something with these people coming in. We can't fellowship with them. They can't come into the sanctuary. In order to be able to do that...we have to give them these four rulesdon't fornicate, don't eat strangled foods, don't worship other idolsthey'll be coming to the synagogue every Shabbat. They'll be hearing the Torah when they come each week. It takes us three years to read the whole Torah. They can handle little bits of it each week. They'll learn. Slow, but sure, they'll build up and they'll learn. That's what we can do with them! Wow, we solved our problem! I've got lots of people in for the weekend. I won't be on much. Shall we look at ALL the laws and see what they are about? See which ones apply and then maybe we'll have a good number? Maybe after that, we should check out the 1050 in the Newer Testament and compare when we're done with that. Kay -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Thursday, 28 October, 2004 06.57To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Early Jewish Chrisitan Church Judyt: Once more I stand corrected. I was under the impression we were all talking about the same thing. Now I see we are not - 613
Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying
In a message dated 10/29/2004 5:29:54 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Judyt responds: I believe invoking mercy for Arafat would be exactly what Jesus Christ would do. It is easy to attempt to convey my theology (God-talk) in one sentence saying everybody is automatically saved. It of course does not do justice to the many times I have explained my position. I do believe that everyone is included in Jesus Christ. I also have made it quite clear that this can be rejected. To confuse you I then go on to state that those who chose to reject Jesus Christ are still included. I use the example of how my son may say to me, âDaddy, I hate you, I reject you, I disown you and will have nothing to do with you.â I may reply âOk, but you will always be my son.â My son can never get rid of his sonship because it is something I have bestowed on him regardless of whether he accepts or rejects it. In the same way if God chooses to bestow grace upon us the grace stands regardless of our acceptance or rejection. I believe that the grace of Jesus Christ is that scandalous. Are we a "child" or "son" of God if we choose to reject him? I'm not talking about never hearing about God. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying
In a message dated 10/28/2004 1:52:26 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Laura responds: My main point is that believing and calling on his name are the requirements - works are not required BUT they should naturally follow. Laura Jonathan butts in: My main point would be that it is God who believes in us. It is God's response that matters much more than our own. If our salvation EVER rests upon what we do or don't do every single one of us is doomed. If instead our salvation is based upon the life, work, and faith of Jesus Christ we can cling to His robe. Laura replys: I agree
Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying
In a message dated 10/28/2004 1:49:15 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sounds like Terry and Laura are using different ways to say much the same thing We probably are saying mostly the same thing. I'm not very eloquent most of the time. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying
In a message dated 10/28/2004 1:43:04 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: thinkin' out loud :) On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:24:46 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [good] works are not required [possible?] BUT they should naturally follow.. e.g., ..God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power..[then] he went around doing good (Acts 10) That is right. We don't have to do anything but THEN if we really have a "changed heart" then we should be doing things! Does that make sense? We are saved by grace through faith but there should be evidence. Grace is free though right??? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying
In a message dated 10/28/2004 1:16:50 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jesus died for all who would simply call on his name and ask for salvation. Romans 10:9 It has nothing to do with God's mercy - the opportunity to be saved is all about grace which none of us deserve. If Arafat dies without having confessed with his mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in his heart that God raised Christ from the dead, he is a lost man. Very simple. Our part is to facilitate that opportunity. Laura==Dear Sister. You can't cling to one verse and ignore the others. Look at the big picture please. Grace is extended because of faith that results in repentance and obedience. Otherwise Jesus would not have rebuked those outside His will when He said " Why do you call me Lord when you won't do what I tell you"? There is more to it than saying "Give me the free fire insurance."I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly.Blessings, Terry My main point is that believing and calling on his name are the requirements - works are not required BUT they should naturally follow. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying
In a message dated 10/28/2004 8:27:03 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes indeed, you must be 'born from above'. What I'm saying and, what you've just said, I'd suggest, are not antithetical (in reality...though in your way of thinking they are). Does anyone out there agree? Laura- I was swamped with emails last night and had to skim messages but I got the impression that some thought we could just pray that God would have mercy on him in spite of what he stood for. I may have taken it wrong.
Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying
In a message dated 10/28/2004 7:35:21 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mornin' Lance. All those on the wide road are excluded. Only those who enter the narrow gate and walk the narrow path are included. Jesus .died for all that would die to self, take up their cross, and FOLLOW Him, obey Him, Live for him, and if necessary, die for him. To say you believe without this is to have the same faith and the same future as the demons.God proved His love for us by His actions. Your actions must prove your love for God. Your righteousness must EXCEED that of the Pharisees. No such thing as a casual Christian, and you must give up even your favorite sin to enter the gate. The only thing others will ever hear from Jesus is,"Depart from me. I never knew you."Selah,Terry Jesus died for all who would simply call on his name and ask for salvation. Romans 10:9 It has nothing to do with God's mercy - the opportunity to be saved is all about grace which none of us deserve. If Arafat dies without having confessed with his mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in his heart that God raised Christ from the dead, he is a lost man. Very simple. Our part is to facilitate that opportunity. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Mother God Goof grief!
In a message dated 10/27/2004 10:17:29 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just came into the room after getting my granddaughter breakfast. Montel is on TV (The TV was on the news) and he has a lady who has just written a book about "Mother God" The first thing I hear is that Mary in her appearances in "modern times" tells the people she is the mother of God not the mother of Jesus. So she says that all these religions that claim Mary is the mother of Jesus are wrong. What a jerk LauraYou must be talking about Sylvia Browne, who says she is a "psychic", and espouses her spirituality on the Montel program weekly, along with her psychic abilities, I believe. She has written about 28 books, the latest one being "Mother God". She said she grew up in Catholicism, so her viewpoint comes from that perspective, I guess. Don't see anything biblical about God having a mother!Vee, Terry's wife Wierd stuff for sure and not worth my time. I hate that so many women at home could see such junk. Laura
[TruthTalk] Mother God Goof grief!
I just came into the room after getting my granddaughter breakfast. Montel is on TV (The TV was on the news) and he has a lady who has just written a book about "Mother God" The first thing I hear is that Mary in her appearances in "modern times" tells the people she is the mother of God not the mother of Jesus. So she says that all these religions that claim Mary is the mother of Jesus are wrong. What a jerk Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] In-N-Out Double-Double
In a message dated 10/26/2004 9:24:32 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Doon't worry about the pork, right now. Just focus on one error at a time.Pastor Smithson LOL I'm trying hard. Laura
Re: For Linda: FW: For Linda: FW: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
In a message dated 10/26/2004 4:41:45 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.pyropepper.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1898MD They say this is the hottest in existence right now. Boy do I want it. JBH When I lived in Delaware we used to go to a boardwalk store in Rehoboth that actually let you sample this stuff! It was a riot
Re: [TruthTalk] In-N-Out Double-Double
OK THis is funny I just looked. Myfavorite salt is alessi 100"% natural Mediterranean Sea Salt The label says Product of Italy Tampa Florida! Is that a riot? not Kosher though:0( Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] In-N-Out Double-Double
In a message dated 10/26/2004 10:36:00 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Terry did it. He was teasing me for not eating pork, but posting a recipe with not-so-good ingredients. At least those ingredients are clean... Kay I know I was just having fun. I suppose if he prefers pork he could make his from ground pork. I'll make sure I don't get any beef that has been used for a sacrifice LOL Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] In-N-Out Double-Double
How did pork enter into the picture? I'm off in search of decent tomatoes and perhaps an onion. That way I am free from coveting or lusting or (whatever it is that John stirred up) and back into right standing :0)
Re: [TruthTalk] 4th Commandment
In a message dated 10/26/2004 8:04:17 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Confession will go a long way, Izzy. Recognizing the problem is, at least, a first step. I am proud of you for that. John The Message says: 9Say the welcoming word to God--"Jesus is my Master"--embracing, body and soul, God's work of doing in us what he did in raising Jesus from the dead. That's it. You're not "doing" anything; you're simply calling out to God, trusting him to do it for you. That's salvation NIV says:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. KJV says:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved Sounds to me like confession is all that is needed. I realize that to be sincere "works" will naturally follow but works are only an evidence of salvation. Does that open up a can of worms or what? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] In and Out
In a message dated 10/26/2004 7:51:06 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Double-Double with Cheese has got to be the finest 'burger around. Got the cheese got the gr beef Tomatoes around here are lousy. Can you send me a couple? Even when it is a good crop the ones here are not that great! Now they say the storms ruined so many that the restaurants are going to stop using them. Hmmm Guess we'd better change the subject line so people can delete this thread if they are not burger connoisseurs. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] In-N-Out Double-Double
Thanks
Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
In a message dated 10/25/2004 10:13:04 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: coveting what one cannot possess (?) Think In and Out.John Coveting huh? Who me??? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
In a message dated 10/25/2004 8:41:43 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Double-Double with Cheese has got to be the finest 'burger around. -- slade It is wrong for you guys to talk about these burgers when most of us can't get them where we live ROTFL At least Kay said she'd try to look for the recipe. And just "What is sin anyway?" Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
In a message dated 10/24/2004 9:30:46 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i have called my wife and told her to bring me an In and Out Burger --- I hope you all are happy. John Yeah That makes me happy (assuming you don't eat the bun) BUT did you have to say In and Out Burger? We don't have them here and my son went to CA and came back raving about them. Now you made me hungry!!! Laura
Fwd: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
Hey John You can have the whole thing!!! No carbs and no fat!! LOL Laura --- Begin Message --- I hope you like cherry... They're my favorite. -- slade <> --- End Message ---
Re: [TruthTalk] Importance of This Election
Your friend is to be respected for standing up and being counted in such a gathering. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] The Early Jewish Christian Church
Just a quick comment - I appreciate this thread as it is constructive and I can learn something from it. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Torah
In a message dated 10/21/2004 8:16:01 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Let me give you an illustration. If I say that the automobile is both car and Toyota, that would be a true statement without equating car and Toyota. Consider the sentence, "the automobile has been around since 1892." We could not substitute the word "Toyota" for "automobile" in this sentence. I see this kind of set similar to what was being said about the WORD, Yeshua, and Torah. In my illustration, the word automobile corresponds to "the WORD," car corresponds to "Yeshua," and Toyota corresponds to "Torah."Maybe I had better make a Venn diagram for you after all. Let me know if you think that is necessary So Torah is the Word, Yeshua is the Word and Torah is not Yeshua? Or the Word can be both Torah and Yeshua. Do I have that right? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
This is interesting and I am anxious to check it out. Laura
[TruthTalk] Check out FOXNews.com - Eye on the Issues
Click here: FOXNews.com - Eye on the Issues This is a neat link to show where the candidates stand on issues. Thought some of you might like to check it out. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
In a message dated 10/20/2004 9:41:51 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Laura, Let me rephrase some of this. Torah can be compared to logos in the sense that logos means word (lowercase w meaning scripture). Torah cannot be compared to Logos in the sense of John 1.1 where Logos means Word (uppercase w meaning a Person). When you quote a verse from the NT it is the word, not the Word. Christ does refer to the law and quotes the Torah. He also came to fulfill it. These points imply that Torah must be distinct from the Word. When Christ refers to Torah He is not refering to himself. When Christ quotes from the Torah He is not quoting Himself. When Christ fulfills the Torah He is not fulfilling Himself. The Torah must be kept distinct from the Person of Jesus Christ for this to make any type of logical sense. Translators of scripture have almost universally translated logos in John 1.1 to mean the Person of Jesus Christ, which is why it is given a captial W (Word). Their intent was to differentiate between logos and Logos (word and Word, thing and Person). The apostle John took a word (logos) that was well known to his readers. He then appropriated it to the Person of Jesus Christ. This is not 'spiritualizing' words as Judy would have it (that would be gnosticism). This is a very real earthy thing. Using the vocabulary of his day John re-molds a word (pun intended) to mean something distinct from the original interpretation. When things are submitted to Christ they change - even people. Jonathan Hughes Thanks for the explanation. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] What is sin?
In a message dated 10/20/2004 9:04:36 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We could not rephrase John 1.1 as âIn the beginning was Torah, and Torah was with God and Torah was God.â jt: Why would we want to when scripture clearly says "Word" but as Jeff and Slade both claim Jesus is the Word of God and Torah is The Word of God, so what's the problem? I don't see a problem with Jesus being the Word, the Torah being the Word or the scripture in it's entirety being the Word. If I quote a verse from the NT it is also the Word. After all, the Torah is the first 5 books of the Word or the law or whatever. Christ referred to the law and quoted the Torah. I have always called the Torah the law or the Pentateuch (sp?) I don't discount the OT at all. Christ came to fulfill the law - doesn't that mean the Pentateuch? What am I missing here? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Family Advocacy
Thanks Kay, This is an interesting thread and "non-political" My brain is on overload with politics! LOL Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Check out The President's Agenda for Tax Relief
In a message dated 10/18/2004 7:04:10 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you're agreeing with DavidM and calling Terry a liar? not really I am just saying that we don't always get a clear picture when we listen or read someone elses info Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Check out The President's Agenda for Tax Relief
In a message dated 10/18/2004 6:53:49 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh myâif his actual plan is your proofââ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 7:50 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [TruthTalk] Check out The President's Agenda for Tax Relief Click here: The President's Agenda for Tax Relief Not proof but actual info on what his plan is. Not what someone else says it is. Laura
[TruthTalk] Check out Kerry's Tax Ad: Literally Accurate, But Misleading
Click here: Kerry's Tax Ad: Literally Accurate, But Misleading The site you referred to even says Kerry's ad is misleading. I say that nearly everything the man says is misleading. Laura
[TruthTalk] Check out The President's Agenda for Tax Relief
Click here: The President's Agenda for Tax Relief
Re: [TruthTalk] Bush on Tax Cuts
In a message dated 10/18/2004 5:40:22 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately you are wrong. Even bipartisan sites agree that Bush was ummerr lying. Read Terry's post and see how much he got from the tax cut wherethe majority "went to low and middle income Americans." I think you are being unfair. There are numerous articles all over the place that show that David is correct. Maybe you are the partisan one? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] [TruthTallk] why christians don't vote
I know nothing about the man Kay mentioned but I do know that a vote for him is a vote against Bush and in favor of Kerry. That is scary!!! If Christians don't stop bickering and start realizing that no political candidate is perfect, they will never win. For me, the issue is not who we vote for but the fact that far too many Christians don't even bother to vote. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] [TruthTallk] why christians don't vote
In a message dated 10/15/2004 5:50:43 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't voting our Civic duty? Why turn the whole shooting match over to the devil? Voting IMHO is not just a civic duty or obedience to the Word of God - it is a ticket to complain :0) Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Agression vs Love
In a message dated 10/14/2004 9:23:06 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Disney is one of the worst. I know it and here we are guilty of watching the Disney Channel some and watching the movies. We have Alice and Wonderland now from the library. Maybe not a good thing!!! Hard to keep a balance when we avoid Rugrats, Power Rangers, Pokemon etc. Veggie Tales are good but they want other stuff too! Right now Dora is on Nicolodeon but that channel has it's drawbacks too. YIKES Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Why Christians don't vote
In a message dated 10/14/2004 9:17:18 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40924 That is a great article. I would be interested to know if anyone on the list chooses NOT to vote and why? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Republican or Democrat
In a message dated 10/14/2004 1:55:19 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:13:12 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:35:26 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:In a message dated 10/13/2004 2:26:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:John: So, eventually , on this earth, I Co 8:1-3 can be cut out of our Bibles. I'll sharpen my scissors. Most of us on TT have already excluded the passage anyway. JohnJudyt:What has this conversation got to do with eating meat bought in the marketplace that has first been sacrificed to idols or"things offered to idols?" John: You think the principle of knowledge verse love only applies when we are arguing about the eating of meats?? JD Judyt:I've never argued about "eating of meats" because so far as I know the meat I buy at the Commissary has not been sacrificed to idols; but we see that it is not good to be in ignorance regarding this because Jesus says so when He brings up the subject once more in Revelations 2:14,20. I believe that idolatry is always divisive and never ever leads to unity. When Jesus is the root in our heart we gladly put all of this away. Incidentally our daughter's pastor uses the "meat offered to idols" argument to justify things like celebrating Halloween. I fail to see the connection but they respect him and this is what he has taught them, so sadly our grandchildren are not being tutored in true spiritual discernment and walking in the fear of God. Our grandson along with all of his little Christian friends who attend the Christian school are heavily into Pokemon cards and this Yugi character which leads to a Japanese form of D&D; if not stopped this will eventually lead to the same type of fantasy role playing games along with the same evil fruit in the lives of these boys.. John: Did I miss something? Nothing in the above paragraph has anything to do with my question about the principle of knowledge verses love. Judyt: John, God is not against knowledge, that is the wisdom from above; who said to be wise as serpents but harmless as doves. Also there is no principle in all of the references about eating things strangled and meat offered to idols other than that 'if we love God we will not do it' John: Oh, and one more thing. Pokeman will lead to nothing of the kind unless done to excess. We celebrate Christmas and entertain Halloween. Been doing it for 38 years with my kids and now the grand kids. All of them Christians. All of them in some capacity of Christian leadership. Everyone has their demons, I guess. John Judyt: Well John, it's good if we are not condemned by the things we allow and what you, your kids, and grandkids have been doing for all these years is between you, them, and the Lord since He is the Judge. However, that does not alter the fact that Halloween is and has always been the devil's day. As for Pokemon. Look at the characters and what they represent. I guess it's like all sin, a little drink, a little cigarette, a little gambling, a little gossip, a little fornication, never hurt anyone - Right?I've been lurking since I resigned up but wanted to interject a comment on Pokemon. I see it as an agression to solve all problems issue. I felt the same way with power rangers. I even see it in Tweety and Sylvester. So much of what these children watch is so agressive. I discourage these shows. As far as Halloween is concerned. For us it is all about dress up. We go with the kids and only let them trick or treat in areas where we know people. Our church has trunk or treat where we decorate our trunks (nothing occult, evil etc) and the kids go from one car to the other and end up around a coppertype fire pit roasting marshmallows. This year they are doing a hay maze and a chilli cook off. It is more of a harvest party. This year the girls are an M & M , a lion and a mouse. Last year we had a butterfly, a spider (purple) and a target sales clerk (complete with headphones and a label machine (ala pricing machine) To sum it all up - evil or not why do we let the media teach our children that we solve situations with physical means?
Re: [TruthTalk] Religious Books
In a message dated 7/16/2004 7:16:37 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW, I found a much more interesting section of a website that Jonathan sent (the jokes!):. Izzy http://people.bu.edu/wwildman/WeirdWildWeb/jokes.htm Especially pertinent to our discussions: http://people.bu.edu/wwildman/WeirdWildWeb/jokes_culture.htm#Top Thanks for the diversion! I had a good time reading some of those. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Rock of Ages
In a message dated 7/15/2004 1:51:31 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: are you intrigued w/ Calvin's ubiquity? :) Just interesting to read that!
Re: [TruthTalk] Rock of Ages
In a message dated 7/15/2004 1:18:58 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rock of Ages, cleft for me,Let me hide myself in Thee;Let the water and the blood,From Thy wounded side which flowed,Be of sin the double cure;Save from wrath and make me pure. Not the labor of my handsCan fulfill Thy lawâs demands;Could my zeal no respite know,Could my tears forever flow,All for sin could not atone;Thou must save, and Thou alone. Nothing in my hand I bring,Simply to the cross I cling;Naked, come to Thee for dress;Helpless look to Thee for grace;Foul, I to the fountain fly;Wash me, Savior, or I die. While I draw this fleeting breath,When mine eyes shall close in death,[originally When my eye-strings break in death]When I soar to worlds unknown,See Thee on Thy judgment throne,Rock of Ages, cleft for me,Let me hide myself in Thee. -- Augustus Toplady, 1776. An unsubstantiated story says the lyrics were inspired when Toplady took shelter from a storm under a rocky overhang near Englandâs Cheddar Gorge; he reportedly wrote the words on a playing card. My pastor wrot a book called Then Sings My Soul with our Music Minister. This song is in there. He wrote that Augustus's father died in a war and he ws spoiled by his mother. Hardly anyone liked him. At 11 he was interested in the Lory, by 12 he was preaching and began writing hymns at 14. At 16 he was converted in a service in a barn. At 22 he became an Anglican Priest. He was a Calvinist and despised John Wesley's theology and brote an article about God's forgiveness intenting it to be a slam against Wesley. This article was ended with the poem above. My pastor said it is oddly similar to something Wesley had written 30 years before. He didn't mention the playing card or the storm. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] have you noticed?
I hope you are right! I am about to unsub for a couple of weeks. It is just too hard to read on digest and I am in and out of town for the next couple of weeks starting Sat. I am enjoying reading everyone's posts so I didn't want anyone to think I was just gone. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Spirit/Soul
My responses are in red. Laura In a message dated 7/14/2004 10:23:04 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Scripture teaches us that "God is a Spirit" John 4:24 - so how was Adam made in His Image aside from being created a spiritual being? God put His spirit in him In Job we learn "There is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding" (Job 32:8) I have to dash out but here is a verse that I use: 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4 I believe the reason they are blinded is because they are unsaved and don't have the HS residing within them. My opinion is that the HS spirit ministers from without before we are saved and from within after salvation. David believed the same when under great duress he wrote "Into thine hand I commit my Spirit" (Psalm 31:5) Jesus on the cross right before giving up the ghost cried "Father into thy hands I commend my spirit" (Luke 23:46) Stephen while being stoned cried "Lord Jesus receive my spirit" (Acts 7:59)
Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued
In a message dated 7/14/2004 7:52:46 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Once I am finished erecting portable garage canopies, building worm beds and cages, installing automatic watering systems and electricity, we should meet our goals with plenty of time left for fishing and hunting. Sounds like a plan but you have a lot of work ahead of you. Watch yourself in that hot weather and PACE PACE PACE I thought your information was interesting. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Spirit/Soul
I have been thinking about this thread and in my opinion, we are born with a body and have a soul which represents life. I guess we could say we are a soul to be correct. We receive the HS when we are saved. Then when we die the soul goes to be with the Lord. Do we even need the spirit because we will be in the presence of God the Father. Just some rambling thoughts but I definately think the body and soul are two different things. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued
In a message dated 7/13/2004 8:19:10 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Right now, the demand exceeds the supply, as they are lower in cholesterol and fat than poultry, beef, or pork. OK I can't imagine eating rabbit as a normal protein source. Do you benefit from the skins also? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued
In a message dated 7/13/2004 7:40:12 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Multiplying rabbits are greatly to be desired. I am making cages as I can afford to make cages. The more they multiply, the more cages I can afford.Terry Now you have me intriqued! What do you do with these rabbits? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued
In a message dated 7/13/2004 7:02:44 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wabbits is wodents Iz. They chew right through anything softer than a diamond. They eat Rubbermaid like these skeeters drink skin so soft Wabbits multiply too Are you making enough cages? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued
In a message dated 7/13/2004 1:05:33 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps the same feeling that God has when we screw up our lives with sin, even while believing in Him? Izzy It was hard as a mother to sit back and watch and realize that I couldn't fix my son's problems. Laura Very likely the same thing. I learned a lot about remaining quiet and trusting God. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued
In a message dated 7/12/2004 7:49:03 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Slade, The only problem I see with this below is that (1) I see no scriptural backing for âemotional damageâ, and (2) every time someone is not happy in his/her marriage they think they are being âemotionally abusedâ. In many cases they are simply not getting their own way, and are rebelling against the Lordâs discipline in their own life. I believe that God uses marital difficulties to help us walk in the Spirit, rather than in the flesh. We have ALL been there at one time or another, havenât we? And wouldnât it be a shame if we used that opportunity to declare ourselves free to take another spouse? We had better be sure the Lord has declared our marriage vows broken, and not just ourselves. Better to live alone than to take the chance of living in adultery. On the other hand, if I were being screamed at or insulted constantly, or my children were, I donât think Iâd stick around long. Iâm sure there are cases when there is no sane way to deal with the hatred, and remarriage might be allowed by the Lord then. It would take a lot of prayer. I know in my former marriage it had gotten just about that bad before I got solid proof of adultery. I was about at the breaking point and considering legal separation, because I knew I didnât want to spend the rest of my life being treated so badly for no reason. The kinder I was to him, the angrier he reacted. The hatred was palpable. I afterwards learned that when someone is cheating on you they become very angry with you because they must make YOU the bad guy to justify their sin. The cheater knows he/she is lying, cheating, using pornography and drugs/alcohol, or whatever. They canât deal with owning up to their guilt, so they project their guilt onto the very person they are abusing. I think most emotional abuse is due to this. Or perhaps the abuser is just suffering from acute depression and needs medical treatment. Izzy This is exactly what happens. We finally took some advice from a leader in our church and realized that my son's former wife had been playing a game for years. It was all about her and she manipulated every situation. My son fell for it and most of us did but after it was all over we began to see the truth. The more he stayed home and did what she wanted the worse it got. When Izzy talked about them transferring guilt it was another confirmation for me. She was and is still running from the Lord. I'm not even sure she was/is saved but of course noone knows the heart but God. I can look back and see that there was no "fruit" that was pure. Sin is horrible and love covers it until a person's eyes are opened. Glenn's wife says that often the sin is not the divorce but the marriage. She may be right! Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Marriage, divorce, remarriage, continued
I think emotional abuse can be horrible too. I watched my son go through it and there was nothing anyone could do. His former wife started with subtle deception and it led to blatant lies. She refused to go to church services and conjured up all kinds of stories which she told my son in law. It was horrible and my son went to counseling. The counselor met with her once and told him she was living a lie and that until she became honest with herself and dealt with some past issues there was no way for him to do anything. She filed for divorce and he decided to move on with his life and not make it any more ugly. It was a tough time for all of us because the "D" word was not part of our vocabulary. Fortunately he has met a great gal and they are both enjoying doing things together. It was hard as a mother to sit back and watch and realize that I couldn't fix my son's problems. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Interesting Article
In a message dated 7/8/2004 9:41:34 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wonder what impact a passage has on this discussion that reads, "God hates divorce." I have never actually thought about it before. I am listening, ya'll. JohnYou ask a far too complicated question for a country boy to fully answer John, even though I once did a detailed study on the subject. My findings did not agree with the teachings of my pastor at the time, and I was advised not to teach such stuff to my cell group, since some of them were divorced. Being the dogmatic, narrow minded fundamentalist that I am, I left that church rather than water down my findings. If you or the group are interested, we might be able to discuss the subject over a period of time. For right now, let me say that one does not always sin, even though they are doing something God hates. (Let me take cover now, lest I be stoned.)Terry Interesting - I'm intrigued! Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Divine Nature
If you right click on your mouse it will give you an option to clear the background Laura
Fwd: [TruthTalk] [Fwd: Best buy for your money]
Thanks for sending that info. I had money burning a hole in my wallet and was about to rush out and buy the book (NOT) but I really need the other item. In fact it is on the list for the store today! You saved me from wasting my $. Laura --- Begin Message --- Bill Clinton's new book is out. I located a better buy for your money. ~900 pages for $21.00 = $0.02/page. 800 sheets for $2.09 = $0.003/sheet. <><>--- End Message ---
Re: [TruthTalk] question
In a message dated 7/5/2004 9:16:45 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The question is: Why was Jesus baptized? Certainly not to be saved, and not for the remission of sins, so why?Terry I always figured it was to set an example for believers. Probably too simple! LOL Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Fornication in the camp
I am not finding fault with what you said but am curious as to whether you believe birth control is always wrong. Do you believe in family planning? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Just in time for the 4th!
That is very interesting about Penn. I lived just outside of the town where George Reed lived and it is historic. They have celebrations every year on Separation Day which is the beginning of June. The town was Dutch and the religions were predominately Anglican and Presbyterian. It is still that way to a large degree. I never realized they persecuted him though. It is interesting to me that nearly every phase of their life was closely tied to the church and today they basically worship on Sunday Morning only. How far many have strayed from the "founders" purposes! Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Smithson: Kruger is the man.. Smithson waxes an elephant
In a message dated 7/1/2004 8:03:42 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kruger assumes the Trinity for a number of reasons (biblical and historical) and presents the idea that central to the reality of the Father, Son and Spirit is the relationship of the three to each other. We tend to think of fellowship as something that you seek to encounter or restore or to flee from; with God (the Father Son and Holy Spirit) fellowship is something of a life source, it is that which joins the Three. Kruger describes this fellowship as the womb of human history. Applied to humans (Let us make man in our image), I am thinking that God gives birth to that which also requires fellowship, and more specifically, fellowship with Him. And so here we are. The drag is this, many try to find meaning in their life without God. In a sense, God is our birthing parent. We are in His image as a matter of creation. We have no choice. and when we seek other definition, we resist the reality that fully explains who we are. When we seek other definition, we are a mess we kick against the pricks. When we are involved in passionate fellowship with each other, when our search for God is centered in our outpouring for others (Isa 58:9-11), we find God, we see Him, we realize His presence because He is what we are doing. We do love -- He is love. We do fellowship -- his very existence is fellowship (Father Son and Holy Spirit). In accepting His nature, we move from doing to becoming. And when we stand in the fulfillment of that "becoming," when we are full grown we shine forth His light into this world -- like Father, like son. I like the use of the term relationship! After all, when you think about it, "we" were created to fellowship with God and each other. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Check out MSN Video
In a message dated 6/30/2004 9:48:50 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Izzy, no fear. This video was an ultrasound. Yes I thought it was an ultrasound also. I just thought it was interesting. Laura
[TruthTalk] Check out MSN Video
Click here: MSN Video Some time ago we had a thread about when life really began. This is a video from inside the womb. I managed to open it but other I know had trouble. Maybe some of you would like to view it. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Soul Ties
In a message dated 6/27/2004 11:18:26 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hereâs a question for you all. Do you believe there are such things a âsoul tiesâ? If so, what are they, and how do they work? Izzy Great question. I'm anxious to hear the viewpoints. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Truth Talk or Politics
In a message dated 6/23/2004 6:06:33 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.alzstl.org/News/A_blank_place.htm Izzy Great article. Thanks for sharing. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] President George Bush
In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:28:25 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just for the record. I was at a concert to support Compassion International and Amy Grant was one of the singers - (I mainly went to hear Mercy Me) She gave quite a testimony and spoke about her sin and restoration. Laura Doesn't move me. The plan for most in her situation is to go ahead and commit the deed, then repent after she /he has destroyed whatever is in her/his way, collected and possessed the benefit, and in general made a mockery of the Lordship of Christ. John Your choice to judge as you want. I choose to let God do the judging. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] President George Bush
In a message dated 6/15/2004 1:48:11 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A frequent story by those who intended to do wrong, did it, and intended to be âforgiven and restoredâ all along. That does not change the fact that they are living in an adulterous relationship to this day (if they did not divorce on Biblical grounds). Izzy I'm not condoning what happened - just saying that the Lord appears to be using her and even though I don't buy her music, I did not walk out because she stepped up to the stage. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] President George Bush
Just for the record. I was at a concert to support Compassion International and Amy Grant was one of the singers - (I mainly went to hear Mercy Me) She gave quite a testimony and spoke about her sin and restoration. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Reminder from the Moderator
In a message dated 6/10/2004 11:13:22 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with most of what you said but I do think we should include prayer requests. I am sometimes overwhelmed with the number of posts but if someone thinks it is urgent or something that might get a thread going then I think you should allow it. Maybe we should send these things to you and you can decide if it benefits the whole group. Just my opinion. Laura 1. Posts containing a link to an interesting web page you found. If a link helps to progress an argument, make a point, or directly relates to a topic of discussion, then use it. But, please avoid just sending a link that pertains to something you think is interesting.2. A one-liner that does not further a discussion, or multiple one-liners that each address only one point of a larger discussion. Try to respond to an entire post with a single response of your own. Occasionally, if you leave out an important point you intended to make, or want to change or correct a previous post, then a second post is warranted.3. One-line responses back and forth between two posters for an extended period. This is a discussion group, not an immediate message board. If you go one to two quick one-liner posts with another member, why not take it to an IM board, chat room, or to private email.4. A cute joke or anecdote that you found on the internet, or that a friend or relative sent you. I am sure we each get enough "FW:" email every day that we do not need to wade through it on TT.5. ANYTHING that ends with "Send this to xxx friends", or "If you love Jesus you will forward this to...". I would guess that Jesus could care less about your email, and doubt that not forwarding such will affect your state of redemption.6. Personal discussions between two members. Most probably don't care that Bobby is in graduate school at the same place the other member's brother's son went. If it becomes personal please use private email.Thanks,Perry the Moderator
Re: [TruthTalk] Aspartame
I am glad you mentioned this, Judy. I do know a gal who had some allegric reactions to beverages with aspertame and they cleared up when she discontinued it. The symptoms did mask that of MS BUT this is not common. Below is a report I found to be interesting. Laura Is aspartame safe? After reviewing scientific studies, FDA determined in 1981 that aspartame was safe for use in foods. In 1987, the General Accounting Office investigated the process surrounding FDA's approval of aspartame and confirmed the agency had acted properly. However, FDA has continued to review complaints alleging adverse reactions to products containing aspartame. To date, FDA has not determined any consistent pattern of symptoms that can be attributed to the use of aspartame, nor is the agency aware of any recent studies that clearly show safety problems. Carefully controlled clinical studies show that aspartame is not an allergen. However, certain people with the genetic disease phenylketonuria (PKU), those with advanced liver disease, and pregnant women with hyperphenylalanine (high levels of phenylalanine in blood) have a problem with aspartame because they do not effectively metabolize the amino acid phenylalanine, one of aspartame's components. High levels of this amino acid in body fluids can cause brain damage. Therefore, FDA has ruled that all products containing aspartame must include a warning to phenylketonurics that the sweetener contains phenylalanine. Source: Excerpted from FDA Consumer, May 1994: Food Allergies Rare but Risky Refresh Q&A Frames Foods Home | FDA Home | Search/Subject Index | Disclaimers & Privacy Policy | Accessibility/Help
Re: [TruthTalk] Mediation of Christ -- question
In a message dated 6/6/2004 10:57:34 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Woodman Valley is the only church I know of in the Springs with those kind of numbers. I do not know if it is charismatic though. Our Children's Ministry director just left to take a Children's ministry position there. They are a huge church! Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] (no subject)
In a message dated 6/2/2004 11:34:28 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DAVEH: Ignore for a moment your concern for a second chance after death. (That is a different discussion, Laura.) Do you believe those who do not have the chance to accept Jesus while in mortality, will have a chance to accept him after death? To me, the Bible suggests that is the case. Not only did some early Christians baptize for the dead (which implies they thought the previously dead folks would have a chance to accept Jesus in the post mortal realm), but I've previously mentioned 1Pet 3:18-19 and 1Pet 4:6 as evidence that Jesus preached the gospel to dead folks so that they could be judged as though in the flesh, in order that they can live according to God. What passages do you feel suggest that those who did not have the opportunity to accept Jesus in mortality, would not have the chance after death?-- i have to agree with Judy's post and Ro 1:17 that Perry posted. I don't think those who have not heard the gospel will have a second chance. What would be the point in spending billions of dollars and sending people all over the world to tell others about Christ? Why would Jesus have commanded us to "go into all the world..." We could just sit back and enjoy our stained glass ornate buildings and spend our time anyway we want to. Then when someone dies we could just go get baptized for them. (I'm not suggesting that this is what LDS do) I am just saying that we would be wasting our time making the effort to evangelize the world. Why do Mormon's send out missionaries? Is it not to spread their version of the gospel? Again, this is not a put down. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] (no subject)
In a message dated 6/2/2004 9:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DAVEH: I'm hung up on it because I find the popular Christian perception to be very interesting. To me it is obviously symbolic, but to most Christians it seems to be a literal lake of fire. Yet (to me) it seems so illogical.That a loving God would punitively punish people who never had the chance to accept/believe Jesus by physically torturing them forever. Seems pretty harsh.even for the wrath of God, does it not! Contrast that to the Lord's story of the prodigal son.do you find both teachings to be at odds? I have been thinking about this response. Putting aside those who die without the opportunity to hear about Jesus,DAVEH: Why do that, Laura. That seems like a much more interesting topic than the one you question below. Laura: Because I think there is a difference - I wonder how many actually don't have a chance to hear the gospel but those who reject I believe will end up in hell. What is your opinion of those who deliberately choose not to accept the gift of salvation?DAVEH: As I've said many times before in TT..Jesus is not going to force anybody to heaven. So, if somebody deliberately chooses not to be reside with him in heaven, he won't end up there. Having said that though..as I've also mentioned numerous times in TT.I believe Jesus' resurrection applies to all men. All (mortals) will be resurrected due to the grace of our Lord. So.in a sense, even those who reject the gospel message will benefit from our Savior's grace. Surely you don't think they get a second chance after death? LauraDAVEH: The question becomes..how do you define what constitutes a first chance. Does merely hearing Jesus' name mean that one has been exposed enough to the gospel to be convicted to a torturous eternal punishment if one does not grasp the concept of the gospel message? Not in my opinion. I believe there are a lot of folks who for numerous reasons simply do not understand the Savior's gospel message. Will they be held accountable for their lack of knowledge???.not in my opinion. At some point though, all will understand it.as all knees will bow to our Lord. Laura: I mean a chance to accept Christ after physical death.
[TruthTalk] (no subject)
DAVEH: I'm hung up on it because I find the popular Christian perception to be very interesting. To me it is obviously symbolic, but to most Christians it seems to be a literal lake of fire. Yet (to me) it seems so illogical.That a loving God would punitively punish people who never had the chance to accept/believe Jesus by physically torturing them forever. Seems pretty harsh.even for the wrath of God, does it not! Contrast that to the Lord's story of the prodigal son.do you find both teachings to be at odds? I have been thinking about this response. Putting aside those who die without the opportunity to hear about Jesus, What is your opinion of those who deliberately choose not to accept the gift of salvation? Surely you don't think they get a second chance after death? Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mediation of Christ
In a message dated 5/29/2004 7:27:51 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What are the differences? Just curious. Laura-Good morning Laura:There are people called atheists who do not believe that there is a GodThere are people who are called agnostics that think there may or may not be a God. In either case, they are not really interested in pursuing the issue.There are people called believers that believe that Jesus was who He is and did what He did. Satan is in this category.There are people who believe what Jesus teaches. That Jesus is not only their savior, but their Master. They no longer live to please themselves. They have died to self and now live to please Him. They are saved.I suspect that you would fall into this last category.Terry I guess I am just naive. I don't understand how you can believe Jesus was who he was and did what he did and not believe and follow what he teaches. I guess it's what some refer to as head knowledge vs. heart knowledge. BTW I am enjoying the recent atmosphere - it is edifying! Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] The Mediation of Christ
In a message dated 5/28/2004 9:27:59 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There seems to be a confusion in nomenclature: There is a difference between BELIEVING IN Yeshua and BELIEVING Yeshua. Perhaps this is the difference everyone is stepping around. -- slade What are the differences? Just curious. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] taking off
Stay safe and we will be praying for your DIL and her unborn baby. Laura
Re: [TruthTalk] Prayer request
I certainly will pray. Keep us posted. Laura
