Re: [U2] A new DML?
On 02/07/2011 11:16 PM, Glen B wrote: On 2/7/2011 3:58 PM, Tony Gravagno wrote: From: Charles_Shaffer You will never be able to go completely away from UniBASIC while keeping a U2 database. I don't think that's possible. We use Uniobjects on our web servers to access our Unidata servers. Technically we could avoid UniBasic with Uniobjects, although I don't recommend it. It has makes more sense to push the database logic to the database server using Unibasic routines called by Uniobjects. I'll interject that there are two discussions going on here: language bindings outside the DBMS, connecting in via whatever pipes happen to be available (UO, C, Intercall, sockets, etc), and language bindings built into the DBMS alongside BASIC. I'll go on a limb and state my belief emphatically that we will never see another new language implemented within the DBMS itself. (The only other language I've ever seen built over MV was RPL (PQN+), which is now only available for D3 with variants in jBase and Reality). The DBMS vendors have no motivation to undertake the massive effort of creating a new compiler and runtime to operate over the DBMS engine. Claims of new sales potential with mainstream languages can't be substantiated; We obviously already have external bindings and MV sales have never spiked because of it. Now, as I've said recently, we can immediately build our own external language bindings with no help from any of the DBMS providers. Unfortunately this option leaves us to connect in via the above methods, and no matter how fast that happens, it's subject to a performance hit. A much more elegant solution would be an API that dynamically links with the DBMS monitor to perform "direct" read/write/call and other operations. Maybe someone can tell us if the UO server component really is this "closer to the metal" interface, but it's always seemed to me that even that server component is one step and a performance hit away from direct DBMS access. With such an API (and direct access for file open/read/write, etc) just about any language can be implemented "inside the box", again with no help from the DBMS provider(s). I'm guessing we could count on two hands how many people might actually be intensely interested in any of this. T As an end-user developer, you probably won't find much interest. There's too much to do with the core business code as it is. Would it make life easier for the "few" solutions developers who actually might want it? I know I've wanted similar gut hooks for my own oddball projects but I have always found a way to make things happen without it. Just because we're clever enough to connect points A and B, though, doesn't mean we should simply accept that the steps involved always be convoluted and the process numbingly inefficient. Do the DBMS vendors not care about making the solutions-providing developer's lives easier? Who really sells their product? How many forward-thinking developers have left MV because these "should-haves" never have existed. How many migrations have happened due to a small subset of those "must-haves" have popped up in another flavor? GlenB ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users How many companies sole source of income is from innovation and investment from 2-3 decades and 6 owners ago? ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] A new DML?
On 2/7/2011 3:58 PM, Tony Gravagno wrote: From: Charles_Shaffer You will never be able to go completely away from UniBASIC while keeping a U2 database. I don't think that's possible. We use Uniobjects on our web servers to access our Unidata servers. Technically we could avoid UniBasic with Uniobjects, although I don't recommend it. It has makes more sense to push the database logic to the database server using Unibasic routines called by Uniobjects. I'll interject that there are two discussions going on here: language bindings outside the DBMS, connecting in via whatever pipes happen to be available (UO, C, Intercall, sockets, etc), and language bindings built into the DBMS alongside BASIC. I'll go on a limb and state my belief emphatically that we will never see another new language implemented within the DBMS itself. (The only other language I've ever seen built over MV was RPL (PQN+), which is now only available for D3 with variants in jBase and Reality). The DBMS vendors have no motivation to undertake the massive effort of creating a new compiler and runtime to operate over the DBMS engine. Claims of new sales potential with mainstream languages can't be substantiated; We obviously already have external bindings and MV sales have never spiked because of it. Now, as I've said recently, we can immediately build our own external language bindings with no help from any of the DBMS providers. Unfortunately this option leaves us to connect in via the above methods, and no matter how fast that happens, it's subject to a performance hit. A much more elegant solution would be an API that dynamically links with the DBMS monitor to perform "direct" read/write/call and other operations. Maybe someone can tell us if the UO server component really is this "closer to the metal" interface, but it's always seemed to me that even that server component is one step and a performance hit away from direct DBMS access. With such an API (and direct access for file open/read/write, etc) just about any language can be implemented "inside the box", again with no help from the DBMS provider(s). I'm guessing we could count on two hands how many people might actually be intensely interested in any of this. T As an end-user developer, you probably won't find much interest. There's too much to do with the core business code as it is. Would it make life easier for the "few" solutions developers who actually might want it? I know I've wanted similar gut hooks for my own oddball projects but I have always found a way to make things happen without it. Just because we're clever enough to connect points A and B, though, doesn't mean we should simply accept that the steps involved always be convoluted and the process numbingly inefficient. Do the DBMS vendors not care about making the solutions-providing developer's lives easier? Who really sells their product? How many forward-thinking developers have left MV because these "should-haves" never have existed. How many migrations have happened due to a small subset of those "must-haves" have popped up in another flavor? GlenB ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I started on a P300 that I think might have been running Primos 3, then we got a 400 running Primos 4. I think it was either the upgrade to Primos 5 or 7 (details are too blurry at this point) when we had significant issues with a upgrade, not the least of which was that the cobol compiler was broken and there was no going back. Ah, the good ol' days when my skill at threading tapes or setting the hardware switches for booting the Pr1me were appreciated. That predates Information. We were writing COBOL with MIDAS files back then. --dawn On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Jerry wrote: > I also started in 1972 on point of sale systems at Victor Comptometer > Corporation. At the time we were a US manufacturing facility for Noxdorf > Computers. I didn't get into a Pick flavor until 1980 when I started work at > Prime Computers. I think at tat time Primos was 16 something and Prime > Information was around 4 or 5. It's been a long time. > > Jerry > > On 2/7/2011 12:48 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: >> >> Earliest we've seen yet. Awesome! You early adopter! >> >> On 2/7/2011 1:45 PM, Tom wrote: >>> >>> I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> Tom Dodds >>> t...@ix.netcom.com >>> 630.235.2975 >>> >>> >>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 10:56, "Peter S. Goldberger" >>> wrote: >>> Started in 1984 on an ADDS Mentor with a 40 Mb hard disk and 12" tape George Gallen wrote: > > and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! > > >> -Original Message- >> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- >> boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of >> charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM >> To: U2 Users List >> Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs >> >> I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" >> drives, >> 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB >> Winchester >> "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was >> back >> in >> 1981. >> Wow. You guys are really old. >> >> Charles Shaffer >> Senior Analyst >> NTN-Bower Corporation >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> >>> ___ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > -- Dawn M. Wolthuis Take and give some delight today ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Jerry: I also worked for Victor tech, as a contractor in about '82, but that was after they sold the computer division to Tandy. I maintained an Arev application for about 5 years for a company that sold, and is still selling, the calculators. Sent from my iPhone Tom Dodds t...@ix.netcom.com 630.235.2975 On Feb 7, 2011, at 21:22, Jerry wrote: > I also started in 1972 on point of sale systems at Victor Comptometer > Corporation. At the time we were a US manufacturing facility for Noxdorf > Computers. I didn't get into a Pick flavor until 1980 when I started work at > Prime Computers. I think at tat time Primos was 16 something and Prime > Information was around 4 or 5. It's been a long time. > > Jerry > > On 2/7/2011 12:48 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: >> Earliest we've seen yet. Awesome! You early adopter! >> >> On 2/7/2011 1:45 PM, Tom wrote: >>> I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> Tom Dodds >>> t...@ix.netcom.com >>> 630.235.2975 >>> >>> >>> On Feb 7, 2011, at 10:56, "Peter S. Goldberger" >>> wrote: >>> Started in 1984 on an ADDS Mentor with a 40 Mb hard disk and 12" tape George Gallen wrote: > and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! > > >> -Original Message- >> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- >> boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of >> charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com >> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM >> To: U2 Users List >> Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs >> >> I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" >> drives, >> 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB >> Winchester >> "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was >> back >> in >> 1981. >> Wow. You guys are really old. >> >> Charles Shaffer >> Senior Analyst >> NTN-Bower Corporation >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> ___ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I also started in 1972 on point of sale systems at Victor Comptometer Corporation. At the time we were a US manufacturing facility for Noxdorf Computers. I didn't get into a Pick flavor until 1980 when I started work at Prime Computers. I think at tat time Primos was 16 something and Prime Information was around 4 or 5. It's been a long time. Jerry On 2/7/2011 12:48 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: Earliest we've seen yet. Awesome! You early adopter! On 2/7/2011 1:45 PM, Tom wrote: I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa Sent from my iPhone Tom Dodds t...@ix.netcom.com 630.235.2975 On Feb 7, 2011, at 10:56, "Peter S. Goldberger" wrote: Started in 1984 on an ADDS Mentor with a 40 Mb hard disk and 12" tape George Gallen wrote: and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. Wow. You guys are really old. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al
My first Pick job was in 1985 on a Honeywell Ultimate. Our programming language was RPL from Systems Management, Inc. I still have my RPL81 manual in a three ring binder. Steve - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al I'm thinking it might be good to write up an article about RPL. If any of you has knowledge of the history of the language, the company, etc. you can email me, and we can collaborate on getting it all laid out... straight. Will ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3428 - Release Date: 02/07/11 ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al
Uh... and ? I didn't ask you Tony. I have no idea why you want to be smart. The history of Pick is not OT for a U2 group. So cool your jets. -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno <3xk547...@sneakemail.com> To: u2-users Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 5:07 pm Subject: Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al No more OT digressions, please? I'm quite familiar with RPL. The owner is my client. I do RPL/assembler work for them. I know it's history and where it's actually sold and supported now. But I don't want to discuss this in the U2 forum or any other forum really. Thanks. > From: Will > I'm thinking it might be good to write up an article > about RPL. If any of you has knowledge of the history > of the language, the company, etc. you can email me, ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al
No more OT digressions, please? I'm quite familiar with RPL. The owner is my client. I do RPL/assembler work for them. I know it's history and where it's actually sold and supported now. But I don't want to discuss this in the U2 forum or any other forum really. Thanks. > From: Will > I'm thinking it might be good to write up an article > about RPL. If any of you has knowledge of the history > of the language, the company, etc. you can email me, ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
That isn't always the case, although I always advocate writing maintainable code over needlessly optimising. An example would be our system for which does some fairly heavy lifting that can handle just over 10 requests a second. Within this year we must scale it to 55 and to 500 within 5 years. All on basically the same hardware. We are adding a caching system in between the source of the requests and the subroutines that generate the response. While this makes the code harder to grok, it is very much needed for us to be able to scale as required One of the reasons people in C,C++, .NET et al are hand optimising code less and less is that the compilers have had a ton of work done to them to optimise the code at compile time for you. That means you get the best of both worlds. Easy to read people-efficient code that is then compile to machine-efficient code. UniData lacks this work on the compiler. I spent 2 days looking at the byte code it generated and then spent a few days in my spare time writing a Proof-of-Concept pre-processor that gave roughly a 6% speed increase on our existing code base. With more time to implement a proper parser we could get > 10% quite easily. This is stuff that should be the bread 'n' butter of the compiler so we don't need to think about it. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kate Stanton Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 11:38 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command We used to try to write machine-efficient code. Now machines are so fast, our emphasis is on people-efficient, ie easier to maintain. On 8 February 2011 12:58, Dan McGrath wrote: > I had many months ago as part of a project I'm working on (performance > pre-processor for UniBasic). > > I've recreated a (no-scientific) test to get some rough numbers. > > X=0 > LOOPS = 99 > STIME = SYSTEM(9) > FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS > X += 1 > NEXT I > CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME > X=0 > STIME = SYSTEM(9) > FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS > GOSUB INC.X > NEXT I > CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME > STOP > INC.X: > X += 1 > RETURN > > This results in: > 385 > 608 > > So when an loop + addition takes 0.38 micro seconds The gosub adds an > extra 0.22 micro seconds > > > But, that isn't the whole truth. If you have a look at the byte code > BASIC produces, you can clearly see that it adds 4 bytes for each line > to indicate the line number. When it performs jumps (such as gosubs) > it always jumps to the appropriate byte position that is left in the > byte code to indicate the line number of the label. > > So, this means the above measurements are measure the overhead of the > extra line identifies as well (which is fine in practice) > > The below code compensates for that: > > X=0 > LOOPS = 99 > STIME = SYSTEM(9) > FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS > X += 1 > X += 1 > X += 1 > X += 1 > NEXT I > CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME > X=0 > STIME = SYSTEM(9) > FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS > GOSUB INC.X > NEXT I > CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME > STOP > INC.X: > X += 1;X += 1; X += 1;X += 1 > RETURN > > Now we are comparing a loop, 4 additions and 4 lines vs a loop, a > GOSUB/RETURN, 4 additions and 4 lines. > > The results: > 939 > 1048 > > Or, the GOSUB/RETURN takes .11 microseconds. > > It's quite clear from the above timings that the line count is a > bigger performance overhead then using GOSUB/RETURN > > > Sorry for the overkill :) > > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of > DavidJMurray > (mvdbs.com) > Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 10:08 AM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > > Has anyone measured the overheads of the various methods of subroutine > calls within UniBasic? > > Is it of significance? > > djm > > > Kate Stanton wrote: >> >> Why not use a subroutine? >> Personally, I like subroutines! >> >> > > > - > > Learn and Do > Excel and Share > > > http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com > -- > View this message in context: > http://old.nabble.com/Does-UV-have-a-%22BLOCK%22-command-tp30867376p30 > 86 > 8821.html > Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > __ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > __ > ## > # The information transmitted in this message and > attachments (if any) is intended only
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
We used to try to write machine-efficient code. Now machines are so fast, our emphasis is on people-efficient, ie easier to maintain. On 8 February 2011 12:58, Dan McGrath wrote: > I had many months ago as part of a project I'm working on (performance > pre-processor for UniBasic). > > I've recreated a (no-scientific) test to get some rough numbers. > > X=0 > LOOPS = 99 > STIME = SYSTEM(9) > FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS > X += 1 > NEXT I > CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME > X=0 > STIME = SYSTEM(9) > FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS > GOSUB INC.X > NEXT I > CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME > STOP > INC.X: > X += 1 > RETURN > > This results in: > 385 > 608 > > So when an loop + addition takes 0.38 micro seconds > The gosub adds an extra 0.22 micro seconds > > > But, that isn't the whole truth. If you have a look at the byte code > BASIC produces, you can clearly see that it adds 4 bytes for each line > to indicate the line number. When it performs jumps (such as gosubs) it > always jumps to the appropriate byte position that is left in the byte > code to indicate the line number of the label. > > So, this means the above measurements are measure the overhead of the > extra line identifies as well (which is fine in practice) > > The below code compensates for that: > > X=0 > LOOPS = 99 > STIME = SYSTEM(9) > FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS > X += 1 > X += 1 > X += 1 > X += 1 > NEXT I > CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME > X=0 > STIME = SYSTEM(9) > FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS > GOSUB INC.X > NEXT I > CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME > STOP > INC.X: > X += 1;X += 1; X += 1;X += 1 > RETURN > > Now we are comparing a loop, 4 additions and 4 lines vs a loop, a > GOSUB/RETURN, 4 additions and 4 lines. > > The results: > 939 > 1048 > > Or, the GOSUB/RETURN takes .11 microseconds. > > It's quite clear from the above timings that the line count is a bigger > performance overhead then using GOSUB/RETURN > > > Sorry for the overkill :) > > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of DavidJMurray > (mvdbs.com) > Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 10:08 AM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > > Has anyone measured the overheads of the various methods of subroutine > calls within UniBasic? > > Is it of significance? > > djm > > > Kate Stanton wrote: >> >> Why not use a subroutine? >> Personally, I like subroutines! >> >> > > > - > > Learn and Do > Excel and Share > > > http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com > -- > View this message in context: > http://old.nabble.com/Does-UV-have-a-%22BLOCK%22-command-tp30867376p3086 > 8821.html > Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > __ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > __ > ### > The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is > intended only > for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain > confidential > and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or > entities other > than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, > please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the > permission of IMB. > ### > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > -- Kate Stanton Walstan Systems Ltd 4 Kelmarna Ave, Herne Bay, Auckland 1011, New Zealand Phone: + 64 9 360 5310 Mobile: + 64 21 400 486 Email: k...@walstan.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
Ah. I think we have a terminology mix up. I was referring to the internal subroutine, not an external subroutine (why did they have to call the external code a subroutine as well!) Yes, external subroutines do invoke a much larger overhead. From my testing previously, I believe it first checks the VOC, then the local catalog and lastly the global catalog. >From my testing with the aforementioned project, directly cataloguing in the VOC results in noticeably faster calling than code that is catalogued globally. I don't have time at work at the moment do the tests again, I might try after I finish the day. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of DavidJMurray (mvdbs.com) Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 11:27 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command Dan, Interesting stuff. How was the subroutine cataloged? At all? Is there not a hierarchical system that UniBasic goes through attempting to find the subroutine? I would have thought the search would have taken significantly more effort as it may have to read from multiple files; the current BP file, the VOC, memory etc. All interesting stuff. Dan McGrath-2 wrote: > > I had many months ago as part of a project I'm working on (performance > pre-processor for UniBasic). > > > It's quite clear from the above timings that the line count is a > bigger performance overhead then using GOSUB/RETURN > > > Sorry for the overkill :) > > - Learn and Do Excel and Share http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Does-UV-have-a-%22BLOCK%22-command-tp30867376p3086 9331.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ### The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the permission of IMB. ### ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] A new DML?
Have a look at Antler - http://www.antlr.org/ and http://pragprog.com/titles/tpdsl/language-implementation-patterns I have also looking into this as a method to extend UniBasic with a pre-processor. djm slestak wrote: > > > I think I will be tinkering with this soon. I have to believe Intercall > should give the best perfomance available, since it is at the lowest > level. > > - Learn and Do Excel and Share http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Re%3A-UUID--was-Data-in-Dict--tp30772851p30869344.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
Dan, Interesting stuff. How was the subroutine cataloged? At all? Is there not a hierarchical system that UniBasic goes through attempting to find the subroutine? I would have thought the search would have taken significantly more effort as it may have to read from multiple files; the current BP file, the VOC, memory etc. All interesting stuff. Dan McGrath-2 wrote: > > I had many months ago as part of a project I'm working on (performance > pre-processor for UniBasic). > > > It's quite clear from the above timings that the line count is a bigger > performance overhead then using GOSUB/RETURN > > > Sorry for the overkill :) > > - Learn and Do Excel and Share http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Does-UV-have-a-%22BLOCK%22-command-tp30867376p30869331.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] A new DML?
RPL was a new language binding, which developed from PROC. It was a fully extended language, capable of replacing BASIC in all regards. I wonder if anyone is still running an RPL system anywhere? Another note, per Ian Sandler, writing in or just before 1989, which might be seen as humorous or not... "A C compiler will no doubt become widely available for PICK soon." [He always uses 'PICK' not 'Pick'.] "Several already exist in various stages of completeness." He then goes on to describe a way to get C code to run anyway. You write it for the specific processor. Then transfer the compiled code to tape. Load the tape on your Pick system and it will execute. He states that he does this. I've never heard of anyone doing this actually. It sounds rather laborious. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
I had many months ago as part of a project I'm working on (performance pre-processor for UniBasic). I've recreated a (no-scientific) test to get some rough numbers. X=0 LOOPS = 99 STIME = SYSTEM(9) FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS X += 1 NEXT I CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME X=0 STIME = SYSTEM(9) FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS GOSUB INC.X NEXT I CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME STOP INC.X: X += 1 RETURN This results in: 385 608 So when an loop + addition takes 0.38 micro seconds The gosub adds an extra 0.22 micro seconds But, that isn't the whole truth. If you have a look at the byte code BASIC produces, you can clearly see that it adds 4 bytes for each line to indicate the line number. When it performs jumps (such as gosubs) it always jumps to the appropriate byte position that is left in the byte code to indicate the line number of the label. So, this means the above measurements are measure the overhead of the extra line identifies as well (which is fine in practice) The below code compensates for that: X=0 LOOPS = 99 STIME = SYSTEM(9) FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS X += 1 X += 1 X += 1 X += 1 NEXT I CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME X=0 STIME = SYSTEM(9) FOR I = 1 TO LOOPS GOSUB INC.X NEXT I CRT SYSTEM(9) - STIME STOP INC.X: X += 1;X += 1; X += 1;X += 1 RETURN Now we are comparing a loop, 4 additions and 4 lines vs a loop, a GOSUB/RETURN, 4 additions and 4 lines. The results: 939 1048 Or, the GOSUB/RETURN takes .11 microseconds. It's quite clear from the above timings that the line count is a bigger performance overhead then using GOSUB/RETURN Sorry for the overkill :) -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of DavidJMurray (mvdbs.com) Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command Has anyone measured the overheads of the various methods of subroutine calls within UniBasic? Is it of significance? djm Kate Stanton wrote: > > Why not use a subroutine? > Personally, I like subroutines! > > - Learn and Do Excel and Share http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Does-UV-have-a-%22BLOCK%22-command-tp30867376p3086 8821.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ### The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the permission of IMB. ### ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
I've often wished for some sort of block syntax in basic as well. Usually I use LOOP with an exit, like you do, or a gosub, but when I migrate code to Cache mvbasic there is a nice construct--the TRY/CATCH block: TRY block code block code if condition then THROW exception block code if condition then ABORT block code block code CATCH excpt if excpt->Name=" then abort END TRY Your code can throw different kinds of exceptions that you can either test for or ignore in the CATCH section (the basic ABORT command actually throws an exception, and in the example I test for that and propagate the abort, but just ignore the other exception) On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:25 PM, George Gallen wrote: > I want to setup a block of commands, and be able to exit out of the block if > needed. > Right now I use a LOOP/REPEAT with an EXIT statement before the REPEAT. > I'd rather not use labels (or subroutines). > The Loop/Repeat works, it just looks weird since it isn't really a loop... > I tried using an IF block, but I couldn't use the EXIT within that block IF > (1=1) THEN..END > > LOOP > block code > block code > if condition then EXIT > block code > EXIT > REPEAT > > Would be nice if > > BEGIN BLOCK > block code > block code > if condition then EXIT > block code > END BLOCK > > > George Gallen > Senior Programmer/Analyst > Accounting/Data Division, EDI Administrator > ggal...@wyanokegroup.com > ph:856.848.9005 Ext 220 > The Wyanoke Group > http://www.wyanokegroup.com > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
Has anyone measured the overheads of the various methods of subroutine calls within UniBasic? Is it of significance? djm Kate Stanton wrote: > > Why not use a subroutine? > Personally, I like subroutines! > > - Learn and Do Excel and Share http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Does-UV-have-a-%22BLOCK%22-command-tp30867376p30868821.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
UniBasic, at times really, does need a try/except statement. Most modern programming languages have some variation on: TRY stuff stuff EXCEPT stuff stuff ELSE stuff stuff FINALLY It should not be that difficult to implement; maybe a request to Rocket might get it added to uniBasic? djm George Gallen-2 wrote: > > I want to setup a block of commands, and be able to exit out of the block > if needed. > Right now I use a LOOP/REPEAT with an EXIT statement before the REPEAT. > > - Learn and Do Excel and Share http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Does-UV-have-a-%22BLOCK%22-command-tp30867376p30868800.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] RPL was Pick History et al
I'm thinking it might be good to write up an article about RPL. If any of you has knowledge of the history of the language, the company, etc. you can email me, and we can collaborate on getting it all laid out... straight. Will ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick History
In Henry speak, 20-30 minutes is about average for questions of a binary nature. How many times he said Orthogonal is Orthogonal to the answer. Only 20 minutes!? How many times did he say "Orthogonal"? The best part of comp.databases.pick was teasing meaning from Henry's posts. It was always worth the effort, but often required a dictionary ;-) - http://jes.com On-demand 1 on 1 private training for all MultiValue platforms and languages. -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Pick-History-tp30809278p30868474.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
I can easily make this a very trivial program, *if* you will allow me to use a control record :) -Original Message- From: George Gallen To: U2 Users List Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 2:08 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command That should accomplish the goal, although it brings in a lot of logic checks that confuse the issue of the program. Again, it's the readability that I'm after in this case and the flexibility to move the code. If you needed to step through the code (not with the debugger) with your eyes, there just a lot goin on. With the block / exit format, as you go through the block, once it hit an exit...that's it, your done, next section. > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of fft2...@aol.com > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:59 PM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > George, if I understand your requirement, and your addenda then may I > present a solution, which > 1) allows ignoring all subsequent actions at any point; and > 2) is completely re-arrangeable at whim; and > 3) allows any number of conditional testing to be done at any random > point within the entire block. > > As you can see, every sub-area below may be moved up or down the ladder > without harming the logic and you don't need the Loop confusion. All > you sacrifice is the 3/100ths of a picosecond it takes the system to > re-evaluate a condition it already knows. > > > Equate false to 0, true to 1 > George.is.done = false > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: George Gallen > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:33 pm > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > > In this particular program, I will be rearranging the blocks of code > > into different orders, and it's easiest to read the logic of the > program > > top down. > > > > If I used subroutines, In order to keep that top down logic, every time > > I move a subroutine reference in the main code to a new location, > >I'd also have to move the subroutine code around also so if you were > >to read the program, it still flow top down, and your not hunting > out > >where each subroutine is. > > > > I use the small main with subroutines often. But in this case, > readability > > is the key. > > > > None of the other methods are wrong, just in this instance, I'd prefer > > not to use them. > > > > George > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > > > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow > > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM > > > To: U2 Users List > > > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > > > > > On 2/7/2011 4:20 PM, George Gallen wrote: > > > > My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think > > > >of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's > only > > > >used once, why not put in the main code. > > > > > > > > Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... > > > > > > > > George > > > > /listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > I like to use subroutines as a way to shorten my main loop into a > nice > > > concise routine. > > > If there is a good logical chunk, why not take it. Even if it is > only > > > used once. Something like GET.UPC or HANDLE.KIT > > > ___ > > > U2-Users mailing list > > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-use
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
I like this idea. EQU BLOCKSTART LOOP EQU BLOCKSTOP EXIT ; REPEAT BLOCKSTART SOME CODE IF CONDITION THEN EXIT SOME CODE BLOCKSTOP Thanks George > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Drew William Henderson > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 5:03 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > George, > > Another option, though not anywhere close to perfect!, would be to make > use of the EQU statement. You could equate BLOCKSTART and BLOCKEND to > LOOP and REPEAT, respectively. The (major) downside: you don't get the > auto-indenting you get with LOOP and REPEAT (unless you're using an IDE > that lets you specify keywords to indent on). > > Drew > > "Providing useless information for over a quarter century!" > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
That should accomplish the goal, although it brings in a lot of logic checks that confuse the issue of the program. Again, it's the readability that I'm after in this case and the flexibility to move the code. If you needed to step through the code (not with the debugger) with your eyes, there just a lot goin on. With the block / exit format, as you go through the block, once it hit an exit...that's it, your done, next section. > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of fft2...@aol.com > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:59 PM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > George, if I understand your requirement, and your addenda then may I > present a solution, which > 1) allows ignoring all subsequent actions at any point; and > 2) is completely re-arrangeable at whim; and > 3) allows any number of conditional testing to be done at any random > point within the entire block. > > As you can see, every sub-area below may be moved up or down the ladder > without harming the logic and you don't need the Loop confusion. All > you sacrifice is the 3/100ths of a picosecond it takes the system to > re-evaluate a condition it already knows. > > > Equate false to 0, true to 1 > George.is.done = false > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false > If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: George Gallen > To: U2 Users List > Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:33 pm > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > > In this particular program, I will be rearranging the blocks of code > > into different orders, and it's easiest to read the logic of the > program > > top down. > > > > If I used subroutines, In order to keep that top down logic, every time > > I move a subroutine reference in the main code to a new location, > >I'd also have to move the subroutine code around also so if you were > >to read the program, it still flow top down, and your not hunting > out > >where each subroutine is. > > > > I use the small main with subroutines often. But in this case, > readability > > is the key. > > > > None of the other methods are wrong, just in this instance, I'd prefer > > not to use them. > > > > George > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > > > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow > > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM > > > To: U2 Users List > > > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > > > > > On 2/7/2011 4:20 PM, George Gallen wrote: > > > > My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think > > > >of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's > only > > > >used once, why not put in the main code. > > > > > > > > Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... > > > > > > > > George > > > > /listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > I like to use subroutines as a way to shorten my main loop into a > nice > > > concise routine. > > > If there is a good logical chunk, why not take it. Even if it is > only > > > used once. Something like GET.UPC or HANDLE.KIT > > > ___ > > > U2-Users mailing list > > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] A new DML?
Tony I'm not sure this could be true about RPL "which is now only available for D3 with variants in jBase and Reality" RPL was written initially I believe for the Reality, but was ported as well to Ultimate and *I believe* to MvBase as well. You can still, as far as I can see, get a new Ultimate install, although today they call it Ult-Plus. Are you certain that they do not support RPL being used on the Ultimate system? I'm not saying that they have actually *sold* any in the past five years, just that it seems like they could. Speaking of, the company that wrote RPL might make a good addition to the Pick History series. I learned RPL before I really learned BASIC. -Original Message- From: Tony Gravagno <3xk547...@sneakemail.com> To: u2-users Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 12:58 pm Subject: Re: [U2] A new DML? > From: Charles_Shaffer > >>You will never be able to go completely away from > >>UniBASIC while keeping a U2 database. I don't think > >>that's possible. > > We use Uniobjects on our web servers to access our > Unidata servers. Technically we could avoid UniBasic > with Uniobjects, although I don't recommend it. It > has makes more sense to push the database logic to the > database server using Unibasic routines called by > Uniobjects. I'll interject that there are two discussions going on here: language bindings outside the DBMS, connecting in via whatever pipes happen to be available (UO, C, Intercall, sockets, etc), and language bindings built into the DBMS alongside BASIC. I'll go on a limb and state my belief emphatically that we will never see another new language implemented within the DBMS itself. (The only other language I've ever seen built over MV was RPL (PQN+), which is now only available for D3 with variants in jBase and Reality). The DBMS vendors have no motivation to undertake the massive effort of creating a new compiler and runtime to operate over the DBMS engine. Claims of new sales potential with mainstream languages can't be substantiated; We obviously already have external bindings and MV sales have never spiked because of it. Now, as I've said recently, we can immediately build our own external language bindings with no help from any of the DBMS providers. Unfortunately this option leaves us to connect in via the above methods, and no matter how fast that happens, it's subject to a performance hit. A much more elegant solution would be an API that dynamically links with the DBMS monitor to perform "direct" read/write/call and other operations. Maybe someone can tell us if the UO server component really is this "closer to the metal" interface, but it's always seemed to me that even that server component is one step and a performance hit away from direct DBMS access. With such an API (and direct access for file open/read/write, etc) just about any language can be implemented "inside the box", again with no help from the DBMS provider(s). I'm guessing we could count on two hands how many people might actually be intensely interested in any of this. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
George, Another option, though not anywhere close to perfect!, would be to make use of the EQU statement. You could equate BLOCKSTART and BLOCKEND to LOOP and REPEAT, respectively. The (major) downside: you don't get the auto-indenting you get with LOOP and REPEAT (unless you're using an IDE that lets you specify keywords to indent on). Drew "Providing useless information for over a quarter century!" -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of fft2...@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:59 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command George, if I understand your requirement, and your addenda then may I present a solution, which 1) allows ignoring all subsequent actions at any point; and 2) is completely re-arrangeable at whim; and 3) allows any number of conditional testing to be done at any random point within the entire block. As you can see, every sub-area below may be moved up or down the ladder without harming the logic and you don't need the Loop confusion. All you sacrifice is the 3/100ths of a picosecond it takes the system to re-evaluate a condition it already knows. Equate false to 0, true to 1 George.is.done = false Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code -Original Message- From: George Gallen To: U2 Users List Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:33 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command In this particular program, I will be rearranging the blocks of code into different orders, and it's easiest to read the logic of the program top down. If I used subroutines, In order to keep that top down logic, every time I move a subroutine reference in the main code to a new location, I'd also have to move the subroutine code around also so if you were to read the program, it still flow top down, and your not hunting out where each subroutine is. I use the small main with subroutines often. But in this case, readability is the key. None of the other methods are wrong, just in this instance, I'd prefer not to use them. George > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > On 2/7/2011 4:20 PM, George Gallen wrote: > > My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think > >of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's only > >used once, why not put in the main code. > > > > Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... > > > > George > > /listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > I like to use subroutines as a way to shorten my main loop into a nice > concise routine. > If there is a good logical chunk, why not take it. Even if it is only > used once. Something like GET.UPC or HANDLE.KIT > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
George, if I understand your requirement, and your addenda then may I present a solution, which 1) allows ignoring all subsequent actions at any point; and 2) is completely re-arrangeable at whim; and 3) allows any number of conditional testing to be done at any random point within the entire block. As you can see, every sub-area below may be moved up or down the ladder without harming the logic and you don't need the Loop confusion. All you sacrifice is the 3/100ths of a picosecond it takes the system to re-evaluate a condition it already knows. Equate false to 0, true to 1 George.is.done = false Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false Check some condition and set George.is.done true or false If Not(George.is.done) then Do some code -Original Message- From: George Gallen To: U2 Users List Sent: Mon, Feb 7, 2011 1:33 pm Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command In this particular program, I will be rearranging the blocks of code into different orders, and it's easiest to read the logic of the program top down. If I used subroutines, In order to keep that top down logic, every time I move a subroutine reference in the main code to a new location, I'd also have to move the subroutine code around also so if you were to read the program, it still flow top down, and your not hunting out where each subroutine is. I use the small main with subroutines often. But in this case, readability is the key. None of the other methods are wrong, just in this instance, I'd prefer not to use them. George > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > On 2/7/2011 4:20 PM, George Gallen wrote: > > My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think > >of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's only > >used once, why not put in the main code. > > > > Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... > > > > George > > /listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > I like to use subroutines as a way to shorten my main loop into a nice > concise routine. > If there is a good logical chunk, why not take it. Even if it is only > used once. Something like GET.UPC or HANDLE.KIT > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
In this particular program, I will be rearranging the blocks of code into different orders, and it's easiest to read the logic of the program top down. If I used subroutines, In order to keep that top down logic, every time I move a subroutine reference in the main code to a new location, I'd also have to move the subroutine code around also so if you were to read the program, it still flow top down, and your not hunting out where each subroutine is. I use the small main with subroutines often. But in this case, readability is the key. None of the other methods are wrong, just in this instance, I'd prefer not to use them. George > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:24 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > On 2/7/2011 4:20 PM, George Gallen wrote: > > My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think > >of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's only > >used once, why not put in the main code. > > > > Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... > > > > George > > /listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > I like to use subroutines as a way to shorten my main loop into a nice > concise routine. > If there is a good logical chunk, why not take it. Even if it is only > used once. Something like GET.UPC or HANDLE.KIT > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
It is also a way of breaking code up into understandable, single purpose blocks of code. This increases the chance someone will fully comprehend it quickly. Large runs of code, even if they do not have sections that a reused are someone else's nightmare in 5 years time. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 8:20 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's only used once, why not put in the main code. Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... George > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kate Stanton > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:17 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > Why not use a subroutine? You say you don't want to, then describe > just what a subroutine is: a block of code for a specific purpose > (hopefully documented at the top), with RETURN to get out back to the > main code. > > Personally, I like subroutines! > -- > Kate Stanton ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ### The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the permission of IMB. ### ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
On 2/7/2011 4:20 PM, George Gallen wrote: My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's only used once, why not put in the main code. Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... George /listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users I like to use subroutines as a way to shorten my main loop into a nice concise routine. If there is a good logical chunk, why not take it. Even if it is only used once. Something like GET.UPC or HANDLE.KIT ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
My main aversion to the subroutine method is that to me, I think of subroutines as code that used in multiple places, if it's only used once, why not put in the main code. Yes, it can be used onceand still be a subroutine... George > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Kate Stanton > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:17 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > Why not use a subroutine? You say you don't want to, then describe > just what a subroutine is: a block of code for a specific purpose > (hopefully documented at the top), with RETURN to get out back to the > main code. > > Personally, I like subroutines! > -- > Kate Stanton ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
No reason, other than I wanted to avoid a bunch of labels. Basically I'm going to have about 20 mini blocks. If it were just one or two I would most likely have gone with the gosub route. > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dan McGrath > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:12 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > I know you said no subroutines, but really, what is the issue with the > following > > > GOSUB CodeBlockThatDoesX > > ... > > CodeBlockThatDoesX: >block code >block code >if condition then RETURN >block code > RETURN ;* End CodeBlockThatDoesX > > > -Original Message- ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
Why not use a subroutine? You say you don't want to, then describe just what a subroutine is: a block of code for a specific purpose (hopefully documented at the top), with RETURN to get out back to the main code. Personally, I like subroutines! -- Kate Stanton Walstan Systems Ltd 4 Kelmarna Ave, Herne Bay, Auckland 1011, New Zealand Phone: + 64 9 360 5310 Mobile: + 64 21 400 486 Email: k...@walstan.com On 8 February 2011 10:01, Dave Laansma wrote: > I have to agree with Steve on this one, to my knowledge you're going to > have to use either indented IF/THEN/END or GOTO. > > That is unless there is a different syntactical statement set available. > > The thing is they all likely decompile to the same instructions, so > we're debating cosmetics here. > > Personally I like indented IF/THEN/END ... adds clarity > > Sincerely, > David Laansma > IT Manager > Hubbard Supply Co. > Direct: 810-342-7143 > Office: 810-234-8681 > Fax: 810-234-6142 > www.hubbardsupply.com > "Delivering Products, Services and Innovative Solutions" > > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:42 PM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > On 2/7/2011 3:39 PM, George Gallen wrote: >> >>> LOOP >>> block code >>> block code >>> if condition then EXIT >>> block code >>> EXIT >>> REPEAT >>> >>> Would be nice if >>> >>> BEGIN BLOCK >>> block code >>> block code >>> if condition then EXIT >>> block code >>> END BLOCK >>> > Why not just > > block code > block code > if not(condition) then > block code > end > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
On 2/7/2011 4:14 PM, George Gallen wrote: indenting looks nice with short commands like "block command" but when you start adding in PRINTs, or longer commands that are close to line's length, it starts to get really hard to follow with line wrapping. I also thought about using subroutines, and instead of EXIT's would use RETURNs. But was trying to eliminate the usage of labels. Was hoping one of the flavors or UV had something like it...but guess not.listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users If you ended up using the subroutine methods, there is a RETURN TO, but all of these are the prime ingredients for spaghetti code. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
yes, it is cosmetic. It (the BLOCK command if it had one) would compile into a GOTO Label, where the system would have to put a label for NOP at the end of the block. Using the Loop/Repeat with the EXIT before the repeat works well, but functionally it's confusing by it's name. indenting looks nice with short commands like "block command" but when you start adding in PRINTs, or longer commands that are close to line's length, it starts to get really hard to follow with line wrapping. I also thought about using subroutines, and instead of EXIT's would use RETURNs. But was trying to eliminate the usage of labels. Was hoping one of the flavors or UV had something like it...but guess not. > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dave Laansma > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 4:02 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > I have to agree with Steve on this one, to my knowledge you're going to > have to use either indented IF/THEN/END or GOTO. > > That is unless there is a different syntactical statement set > available. > > The thing is they all likely decompile to the same instructions, so > we're debating cosmetics here. > > Personally I like indented IF/THEN/END ... adds clarity > > Sincerely, > David Laansma > IT Manager > Hubbard Supply Co. > Direct: 810-342-7143 > Office: 810-234-8681 > Fax: 810-234-6142 > www.hubbardsupply.com > "Delivering Products, Services and Innovative Solutions" > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
I know you said no subroutines, but really, what is the issue with the following GOSUB CodeBlockThatDoesX ... CodeBlockThatDoesX: block code block code if condition then RETURN block code RETURN ;* End CodeBlockThatDoesX -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2011 7:48 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:42 PM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > On 2/7/2011 3:39 PM, George Gallen wrote: > >> > Why not just > > block code > block code > if not(condition) then >block code > end There could then be other conditions inside that if block that would cause it to need to drop out of the block there could be 3 or 4 conditions it would look really confusing (and I'm not a pessimist - I work better when not thinking in nots see what I mean. block code block code if not(condition) then block code block code if not(condition) then block code block code if not (condition) then block block code end end end then begin block (aka) Loop block code if condition then exit block code block code if condition then exit block code if condition then exit block code end block (aka) exit - repeat > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ### The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the permission of IMB. ### ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Small world! We owned the AIMS source code too (ah, that huge PEOPLE file), and I also had the 9955-II in between the other systems. I liked using Primos, and learned to write code in InfoBasic early on. Very stable systems! It was sad to see it all go away at the time. I changed jobs during it, and started my exposure to UniVerse (VMARK) on little Prime desktop-like minis. Fun times! Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group gcan...@promutualgroup.com (617) 757-6775 From: Drew William Henderson To: U2 Users List Date: 02/07/2011 03:58 PM Subject:Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org Hehe...how could I forget the ADDS Viewpoints! Our last two systems were the 6550 for our administrative system, and a 9955-II for academics (into which we installed two 880MB drives, I think, that cost us about $28K apiece!) We migrated our ERP application (we owned source code: AIMS) to Universe on an HP G50. In two years, we had paid off the investment just in savings from maintenance costs. Kinda miss Primos, though. After rev 17, it was a good operating system. And PI was a good db environment. It's dynamic file system worked very well. We were on Universe about 5 years before I felt the dynamic file system was stable enough to use. Drew -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of gcan...@promutualgroup.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:34 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs I stand corrected... Pr1me : ) And yes, Dataproducts 300lpm's and one 600lpm now that you mention them. Let's not forget the one piece ADDS Regent 40 terminals. They were fun to lug around to different departments. I remember being SO excited when we went with Viewpoint 60s. The last Prime system I worked on was the big 6550. Memory boards the size of a 32 inch LCD TV. Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group (617) 757-6775 From:Drew William Henderson To: U2 Users List Date:02/07/2011 01:27 PM Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org Sounds familiar! One of my first projects in 1985 was to make program adjustments for how the SETPTR statement changed at PI 5.4.1, on a Pr1me 750 running Primos 18. I think we only had two drivesI used to have one of the 300MB disk packs around here somewhere (used to use 'em for class tours). Two of the 300lpm rebranded dataproducts printers, decollators, detacher, Micom port selector.. and no viruses! :-) Drew -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of gcan...@promutualgroup.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:55 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Started in 1984 as a Computer Operator on a Prime 750 running Primos 18.? and Information 5.4. Three loud line printers and a big "band" printer. Two reel to reels for backups, which took 18 reels for a Full off of four 300MB washtub drives. Carrying them, 9 on an arm to our offsite location was always a treat. 2-part Decollator, always efficient when you have a few boxes of 4-part carbon reports. And a teletype style console that ate more paper than it printed. Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group (617) 757-6775 From: "Don P. Nagai" To: "'U2 Users List'" Date: 02/07/2011 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Houben Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:39 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- This email and any files transmitted with it are intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender immedi
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
I have to agree with Steve on this one, to my knowledge you're going to have to use either indented IF/THEN/END or GOTO. That is unless there is a different syntactical statement set available. The thing is they all likely decompile to the same instructions, so we're debating cosmetics here. Personally I like indented IF/THEN/END ... adds clarity Sincerely, David Laansma IT Manager Hubbard Supply Co. Direct: 810-342-7143 Office: 810-234-8681 Fax: 810-234-6142 www.hubbardsupply.com "Delivering Products, Services and Innovative Solutions" -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:42 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command On 2/7/2011 3:39 PM, George Gallen wrote: > >> LOOP >> block code >> block code >> if condition then EXIT >> block code >> EXIT >> REPEAT >> >> Would be nice if >> >> BEGIN BLOCK >> block code >> block code >> if condition then EXIT >> block code >> END BLOCK >> Why not just block code block code if not(condition) then block code end ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] A new DML?
On 2/7/2011 3:58 PM, Tony Gravagno wrote: From: Charles_Shaffer You will never be able to go completely away from UniBASIC while keeping a U2 database. I don't think that's possible. We use Uniobjects on our web servers to access our Unidata servers. Technically we could avoid UniBasic with Uniobjects, although I don't recommend it. It has makes more sense to push the database logic to the database server using Unibasic routines called by Uniobjects. I'll interject that there are two discussions going on here: language bindings outside the DBMS, connecting in via whatever pipes happen to be available (UO, C, Intercall, sockets, etc), and language bindings built into the DBMS alongside BASIC. I'll go on a limb and state my belief emphatically that we will never see another new language implemented within the DBMS itself. (The only other language I've ever seen built over MV was RPL (PQN+), which is now only available for D3 with variants in jBase and Reality). The DBMS vendors have no motivation to undertake the massive effort of creating a new compiler and runtime to operate over the DBMS engine. Claims of new sales potential with mainstream languages can't be substantiated; We obviously already have external bindings and MV sales have never spiked because of it. Now, as I've said recently, we can immediately build our own external language bindings with no help from any of the DBMS providers. Unfortunately this option leaves us to connect in via the above methods, and no matter how fast that happens, it's subject to a performance hit. A much more elegant solution would be an API that dynamically links with the DBMS monitor to perform "direct" read/write/call and other operations. Maybe someone can tell us if the UO server component really is this "closer to the metal" interface, but it's always seemed to me that even that server component is one step and a performance hit away from direct DBMS access. With such an API (and direct access for file open/read/write, etc) just about any language can be implemented "inside the box", again with no help from the DBMS provider(s). I'm guessing we could count on two hands how many people might actually be intensely interested in any of this. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users I think I will be tinkering with this soon. I have to believe Intercall should give the best perfomance available, since it is at the lowest level. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Hehe...how could I forget the ADDS Viewpoints! Our last two systems were the 6550 for our administrative system, and a 9955-II for academics (into which we installed two 880MB drives, I think, that cost us about $28K apiece!) We migrated our ERP application (we owned source code: AIMS) to Universe on an HP G50. In two years, we had paid off the investment just in savings from maintenance costs. Kinda miss Primos, though. After rev 17, it was a good operating system. And PI was a good db environment. It's dynamic file system worked very well. We were on Universe about 5 years before I felt the dynamic file system was stable enough to use. Drew -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of gcan...@promutualgroup.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:34 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs I stand corrected... Pr1me : ) And yes, Dataproducts 300lpm's and one 600lpm now that you mention them. Let's not forget the one piece ADDS Regent 40 terminals. They were fun to lug around to different departments. I remember being SO excited when we went with Viewpoint 60s. The last Prime system I worked on was the big 6550. Memory boards the size of a 32 inch LCD TV. Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group (617) 757-6775 From: Drew William Henderson To: U2 Users List Date: 02/07/2011 01:27 PM Subject:Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org Sounds familiar! One of my first projects in 1985 was to make program adjustments for how the SETPTR statement changed at PI 5.4.1, on a Pr1me 750 running Primos 18. I think we only had two drivesI used to have one of the 300MB disk packs around here somewhere (used to use 'em for class tours). Two of the 300lpm rebranded dataproducts printers, decollators, detacher, Micom port selector.. and no viruses! :-) Drew -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of gcan...@promutualgroup.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:55 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Started in 1984 as a Computer Operator on a Prime 750 running Primos 18.? and Information 5.4. Three loud line printers and a big "band" printer. Two reel to reels for backups, which took 18 reels for a Full off of four 300MB washtub drives. Carrying them, 9 on an arm to our offsite location was always a treat. 2-part Decollator, always efficient when you have a few boxes of 4-part carbon reports. And a teletype style console that ate more paper than it printed. Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group (617) 757-6775 From:"Don P. Nagai" To: "'U2 Users List'" Date:02/07/2011 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Houben Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:39 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- This email and any files transmitted with it are intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute, print, or copy the email, or take any action in reliance on its contents. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- This email and any files transmitted with it are intended only
Re: [U2] A new DML?
> From: Charles_Shaffer > >>You will never be able to go completely away from > >>UniBASIC while keeping a U2 database. I don't think > >>that's possible. > > We use Uniobjects on our web servers to access our > Unidata servers. Technically we could avoid UniBasic > with Uniobjects, although I don't recommend it. It > has makes more sense to push the database logic to the > database server using Unibasic routines called by > Uniobjects. I'll interject that there are two discussions going on here: language bindings outside the DBMS, connecting in via whatever pipes happen to be available (UO, C, Intercall, sockets, etc), and language bindings built into the DBMS alongside BASIC. I'll go on a limb and state my belief emphatically that we will never see another new language implemented within the DBMS itself. (The only other language I've ever seen built over MV was RPL (PQN+), which is now only available for D3 with variants in jBase and Reality). The DBMS vendors have no motivation to undertake the massive effort of creating a new compiler and runtime to operate over the DBMS engine. Claims of new sales potential with mainstream languages can't be substantiated; We obviously already have external bindings and MV sales have never spiked because of it. Now, as I've said recently, we can immediately build our own external language bindings with no help from any of the DBMS providers. Unfortunately this option leaves us to connect in via the above methods, and no matter how fast that happens, it's subject to a performance hit. A much more elegant solution would be an API that dynamically links with the DBMS monitor to perform "direct" read/write/call and other operations. Maybe someone can tell us if the UO server component really is this "closer to the metal" interface, but it's always seemed to me that even that server component is one step and a performance hit away from direct DBMS access. With such an API (and direct access for file open/read/write, etc) just about any language can be implemented "inside the box", again with no help from the DBMS provider(s). I'm guessing we could count on two hands how many people might actually be intensely interested in any of this. T ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
On 2/7/2011 3:48 PM, Larry Hiscock wrote: If you're not really repeating the loop (i.e. the EXIT just before the repeat), why do you need a loop/repeat? What's wrong with: code code IF NOT(condition) THEN more code END Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:26 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command I want to setup a block of commands, and be able to exit out of the block if needed. Right now I use a LOOP/REPEAT with an EXIT statement before the REPEAT. I'd rather not use labels (or subroutines). The Loop/Repeat works, it just looks weird since it isn't really a loop... I tried using an IF block, but I couldn't use the EXIT within that block IF (1=1) THEN..END LOOP block code block code if condition then EXIT block code EXIT REPEAT Would be nice if BEGIN BLOCK block code block code if condition then EXIT block code END BLOCK George Gallen Senior Programmer/Analyst Accounting/Data Division, EDI Administrator ggal...@wyanokegroup.com ph:856.848.9005 Ext 220 The Wyanoke Group http://www.wyanokegroup.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users At least once i had a really wicked rule set, and I made individual vars to hold a boolean for each test. One benefit of this is you can easily override an unruly rule with T2 = 1 to make is "step out" till you can debug it. You can also check the value of T1 and T2 in the debugger. for example T1 = (a gt b) T2 = (c >= 2 *d) IF T1 AND T2 THEN END ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
If you're not really repeating the loop (i.e. the EXIT just before the repeat), why do you need a loop/repeat? What's wrong with: code code IF NOT(condition) THEN more code END Larry Hiscock Western Computer Services -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:26 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command I want to setup a block of commands, and be able to exit out of the block if needed. Right now I use a LOOP/REPEAT with an EXIT statement before the REPEAT. I'd rather not use labels (or subroutines). The Loop/Repeat works, it just looks weird since it isn't really a loop... I tried using an IF block, but I couldn't use the EXIT within that block IF (1=1) THEN..END LOOP block code block code if condition then EXIT block code EXIT REPEAT Would be nice if BEGIN BLOCK block code block code if condition then EXIT block code END BLOCK George Gallen Senior Programmer/Analyst Accounting/Data Division, EDI Administrator ggal...@wyanokegroup.com ph:856.848.9005 Ext 220 The Wyanoke Group http://www.wyanokegroup.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
> -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Steve Romanow > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:42 PM > To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > On 2/7/2011 3:39 PM, George Gallen wrote: > >> > Why not just > > block code > block code > if not(condition) then >block code > end There could then be other conditions inside that if block that would cause it to need to drop out of the block there could be 3 or 4 conditions it would look really confusing (and I'm not a pessimist - I work better when not thinking in nots see what I mean. block code block code if not(condition) then block code block code if not(condition) then block code block code if not (condition) then block block code end end end then begin block (aka) Loop block code if condition then exit block code block code if condition then exit block code if condition then exit block code end block (aka) exit - repeat > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
On 2/7/2011 3:39 PM, George Gallen wrote: LOOP block code block code if condition then EXIT block code EXIT REPEAT Would be nice if BEGIN BLOCK block code block code if condition then EXIT block code END BLOCK Why not just block code block code if not(condition) then block code end ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
EXIT works just as well as the UNTIL flag and CONTINUE I just didn't want to setup a LOOP structure that wasn't really meant to LOOP, just to get the Blocking structure and the ability to use EXIT without having to setup labels. It works...yes, but a year from now, I'm going to scratch my head and wonder why I setup a loop that would never loop!?! > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bob Woodward > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 3:35 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > Check out the CONTINUE command. > > IMDONE='' > LOOP UNTIL IMDONE > Block code > Block code > IF condition THEN > IMDONE=1 > CONTINUE > END > REPEAT > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George > Gallen > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:26 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command > > I want to setup a block of commands, and be able to exit out of the > block if needed. > Right now I use a LOOP/REPEAT with an EXIT statement before the REPEAT. > I'd rather not use labels (or subroutines). > The Loop/Repeat works, it just looks weird since it isn't really a > loop... > I tried using an IF block, but I couldn't use the EXIT within that > block > IF (1=1) THEN..END > > LOOP >block code >block code >if condition then EXIT >block code >EXIT > REPEAT > > Would be nice if > > BEGIN BLOCK >block code >block code >if condition then EXIT >block code > END BLOCK > > > George Gallen > Senior Programmer/Analyst > Accounting/Data Division, EDI Administrator > ggal...@wyanokegroup.com > ph:856.848.9005 Ext 220 > The Wyanoke Group > http://www.wyanokegroup.com > > > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
Check out the CONTINUE command. IMDONE='' LOOP UNTIL IMDONE Block code Block code IF condition THEN IMDONE=1 CONTINUE END REPEAT -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 12:26 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: [U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command I want to setup a block of commands, and be able to exit out of the block if needed. Right now I use a LOOP/REPEAT with an EXIT statement before the REPEAT. I'd rather not use labels (or subroutines). The Loop/Repeat works, it just looks weird since it isn't really a loop... I tried using an IF block, but I couldn't use the EXIT within that block IF (1=1) THEN..END LOOP block code block code if condition then EXIT block code EXIT REPEAT Would be nice if BEGIN BLOCK block code block code if condition then EXIT block code END BLOCK George Gallen Senior Programmer/Analyst Accounting/Data Division, EDI Administrator ggal...@wyanokegroup.com ph:856.848.9005 Ext 220 The Wyanoke Group http://www.wyanokegroup.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] Does UV have a "BLOCK" command
I want to setup a block of commands, and be able to exit out of the block if needed. Right now I use a LOOP/REPEAT with an EXIT statement before the REPEAT. I'd rather not use labels (or subroutines). The Loop/Repeat works, it just looks weird since it isn't really a loop... I tried using an IF block, but I couldn't use the EXIT within that block IF (1=1) THEN..END LOOP block code block code if condition then EXIT block code EXIT REPEAT Would be nice if BEGIN BLOCK block code block code if condition then EXIT block code END BLOCK George Gallen Senior Programmer/Analyst Accounting/Data Division, EDI Administrator ggal...@wyanokegroup.com ph:856.848.9005 Ext 220 The Wyanoke Group http://www.wyanokegroup.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
My first experience was with a Wicat, which ran a version of PICK, in the mid 1980's. I didn't have a clue about the software as I was solely hardware in that lifetime. But, people would seem to get upset if you turned the machine off at the wall... My actual first time was with an ADD's. (Why does this sound like college talk?). Which then lead me to the Altos series of PICK machines. I ended up supporting a ALTOS 68000 series with 3x380MB ESDI drives, dual 68020/30 processors, and 4MB (?) of ram. The motherboard was alpha (fresh from the work desk of some boffin in Altos), including mod's via handwoven wire wraps; the software was beta via an on-site support/programmer keeping it all together; and me swapping boards in and out in the wee hours of the morning. It supported 70 odd users. All in Melbourne, Australia. Those were the days. djm FFT2001 wrote: > > By the way, believe it or don't... In 1999, I interviewed for a gig > supporting a Reality. > > - Learn and Do Excel and Share http://mvdbs.com http://mvdbs.com -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Re%3A-Pick-Dinosaurs-tp30847363p30867194.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I remember getting a genuine IBM PC XT with a 10 MB hard drive in 1985. The company bought it in return for me developing a program, eventually called PK Harmony (based on PC-Harmony for Business BASIC, which in turn came from a conversion from an MAI BASIC IV system to a Microdata 1600), to allow a terminal emulator to pass data to/from PICK. I was convinced I'd never need more space! I partitioned half of it for R83. I put Revelation on the DOS partition and got myself a Mark Williams C compiler. It took me less than 6 months to run low on disk space! :o -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Norman Bauer Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs "I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa - Sent from my iPhone" my how times have changed :) On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > Earliest we've seen yet. Awesome! You early adopter! > > On 2/7/2011 1:45 PM, Tom wrote: >> >> I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> Tom Dodds >> t...@ix.netcom.com >> 630.235.2975 >> >> >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 10:56, "Peter S. Goldberger" >> wrote: >> >>> Started in 1984 on an ADDS Mentor with a 40 Mb hard disk and 12" >>> tape >>> >>> George Gallen wrote: and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of > charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs > > >>> I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" >>> > drives, > >>> 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or >>> Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. >>>The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 >>> 50 MB >>> > Winchester > >>> "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That >>> was >>> > back > in > >>> 1981. >>> > Wow. You guys are really old. > > Charles Shaffer > Senior Analyst > NTN-Bower Corporation > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> ___ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
"I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa - Sent from my iPhone" my how times have changed :) On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > Earliest we've seen yet. Awesome! You early adopter! > > On 2/7/2011 1:45 PM, Tom wrote: >> >> I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> Tom Dodds >> t...@ix.netcom.com >> 630.235.2975 >> >> >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 10:56, "Peter S. Goldberger" >> wrote: >> >>> Started in 1984 on an ADDS Mentor with a 40 Mb hard disk and 12" tape >>> >>> George Gallen wrote: and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs > > >>> I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" >>> > drives, > >>> 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or >>> Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. >>> The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 >>> MB >>> > Winchester > >>> "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was >>> > back > in > >>> 1981. >>> > Wow. You guys are really old. > > Charles Shaffer > Senior Analyst > NTN-Bower Corporation > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> ___ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Earliest we've seen yet. Awesome! You early adopter! On 2/7/2011 1:45 PM, Tom wrote: I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa Sent from my iPhone Tom Dodds t...@ix.netcom.com 630.235.2975 On Feb 7, 2011, at 10:56, "Peter S. Goldberger" wrote: Started in 1984 on an ADDS Mentor with a 40 Mb hard disk and 12" tape George Gallen wrote: and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. Wow. You guys are really old. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I started on a Microdata in 1972, first system in Seattle,Wa Sent from my iPhone Tom Dodds t...@ix.netcom.com 630.235.2975 On Feb 7, 2011, at 10:56, "Peter S. Goldberger" wrote: > Started in 1984 on an ADDS Mentor with a 40 Mb hard disk and 12" tape > > George Gallen wrote: >> and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! >> >> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- >>> boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com >>> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM >>> To: U2 Users List >>> Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs >>> >>> > I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" > >>> drives, >>> > 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or > Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. >The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB > >>> Winchester >>> > "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was > >>> back >>> in >>> > 1981. > >>> Wow. You guys are really old. >>> >>> Charles Shaffer >>> Senior Analyst >>> NTN-Bower Corporation >>> ___ >>> U2-Users mailing list >>> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >>> >> ___ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> >> >> >> > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick History
Only 20 minutes!? How many times did he say "Orthogonal"? The best part of comp.databases.pick was teasing meaning from Henry's posts. It was always worth the effort, but often required a dictionary ;-) -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Jon Sisk Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:16 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] Pick History Henry Eggers says "no connection". "It came later.". Bear in mind it took him nearly 20 minutes to say this. Best regards, Jon Sisk Charles_Shaffer wrote: > > Cleaning out the old room where everything computer related gets sent to. > Came across a book on a programming language called PL/I. Just taking a > quick look, I saw some familiar statements like CONVERT, PROC, INPUT, > CHAR, PRINT, FORMAT, LIKE, LOCATE. Is this coincidence, or was PL/I part > of the early days of Pick? Apparently PL/I came into use in the 1960s > around the time Pick was developed. > > Charles Shaffer > Senior Analyst > NTN-Bower Corporation > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > - http://jes.com On-demand 1 on 1 private training for all MultiValue platforms and languages. -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Pick-History-tp30809278p30818137.html Sent from the U2 - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I stand corrected... Pr1me : ) And yes, Dataproducts 300lpm's and one 600lpm now that you mention them. Let's not forget the one piece ADDS Regent 40 terminals. They were fun to lug around to different departments. I remember being SO excited when we went with Viewpoint 60s. The last Prime system I worked on was the big 6550. Memory boards the size of a 32 inch LCD TV. Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group (617) 757-6775 From: Drew William Henderson To: U2 Users List Date: 02/07/2011 01:27 PM Subject:Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org Sounds familiar! One of my first projects in 1985 was to make program adjustments for how the SETPTR statement changed at PI 5.4.1, on a Pr1me 750 running Primos 18. I think we only had two drivesI used to have one of the 300MB disk packs around here somewhere (used to use 'em for class tours). Two of the 300lpm rebranded dataproducts printers, decollators, detacher, Micom port selector.. and no viruses! :-) Drew -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [ mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of gcan...@promutualgroup.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:55 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Started in 1984 as a Computer Operator on a Prime 750 running Primos 18.? and Information 5.4. Three loud line printers and a big "band" printer. Two reel to reels for backups, which took 18 reels for a Full off of four 300MB washtub drives. Carrying them, 9 on an arm to our offsite location was always a treat. 2-part Decollator, always efficient when you have a few boxes of 4-part carbon reports. And a teletype style console that ate more paper than it printed. Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group (617) 757-6775 From:"Don P. Nagai" To: "'U2 Users List'" Date:02/07/2011 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Houben Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:39 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- This email and any files transmitted with it are intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute, print, or copy the email, or take any action in reliance on its contents. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- This email and any files transmitted with it are intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute, print, or copy the email, or take any action in reliance on its contents. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Sounds familiar! One of my first projects in 1985 was to make program adjustments for how the SETPTR statement changed at PI 5.4.1, on a Pr1me 750 running Primos 18. I think we only had two drivesI used to have one of the 300MB disk packs around here somewhere (used to use 'em for class tours). Two of the 300lpm rebranded dataproducts printers, decollators, detacher, Micom port selector.. and no viruses! :-) Drew -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of gcan...@promutualgroup.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:55 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Started in 1984 as a Computer Operator on a Prime 750 running Primos 18.? and Information 5.4. Three loud line printers and a big "band" printer. Two reel to reels for backups, which took 18 reels for a Full off of four 300MB washtub drives. Carrying them, 9 on an arm to our offsite location was always a treat. 2-part Decollator, always efficient when you have a few boxes of 4-part carbon reports. And a teletype style console that ate more paper than it printed. Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group (617) 757-6775 From: "Don P. Nagai" To: "'U2 Users List'" Date: 02/07/2011 11:43 AM Subject:Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Houben Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:39 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- This email and any files transmitted with it are intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute, print, or copy the email, or take any action in reliance on its contents. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I started right out of college working at Microdata for their customer support division. We had 4 1600's that were named: Lucy, Linus, Beethoven & Peanuts. This was 1979. One "fun" memory was when I gave my notice that I was leaving and on my last day the office plan to take me out to lunch. Well, one of the other programmers had set a booby-trap for the lead CSR. When she logged onto the system in the morning it immediately began displaying an error message that said that she had initiated a sysem-shutdown. It was only messages and there really wasn't anything being done on the system but when she went to our boss (who really didn't know how things worked on the system) he quickly did an I-R-I and started restoring the system from the prior night's backup tapes. These were reel-to-reel and there were 4 of them. It took eight hours to complete the restore and 16 CSR's had to be sent home for the day. It made for a very uncomfortable lunch. Everybody was sure that I had set the booby-trap but I didn't say a thing. The plan had been for me to enable the break-key on her session and then stop the farce but I didn't get in the office on time because of traffic. Those were the days! Bruce -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Houben Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:39 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:30 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs >>I started in 1988, as a technical support representative for a subsidiary of the Ultimate Corp. >>We had a computer room with several big old machines with "reel" tapesBack in the days of GFEs and all of those good things. Wow, those were the >>days. I also started in 1988 on an Ultimate system. In fact, I just came across a RECALL manual from that system. Copyright 07 Feb 1983 out of Hanover, NJ. Anybody need one? Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
My first job was at TAB books on two Ultimate Honeywell level 6. I used to stay all night when we had GFE's truncating groups in the system debugger, changing pointers and all that other fun stuff. We never called Ultimate for help with GFEs. Bruce M Neylon Health Care Management Group From: "Roy Beard" To: "'U2 Users List'" Date: 02/07/2011 11:56 AM Subject:Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org I really miss the GFEs and Ultimate's answer to everything " Do a cold start and let us know if it happens again" ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] A new DML?
>>You will never be able to go completely away from UniBASIC while keeping a >>U2 database. I don't think that's possible. We use Uniobjects on our web servers to access our Unidata servers. Technically we could avoid UniBasic with Uniobjects, although I don't recommend it. It has makes more sense to push the database logic to the database server using Unibasic routines called by Uniobjects. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation fft2...@aol.com Sent by: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 02/04/2011 01:29 PM Please respond to U2 Users List To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org cc: Subject:Re: [U2] A new DML? In a message dated 2/4/2011 11:23:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, slestak...@gmail.com writes: > Most of this discussion is about client side connectivity. What I would > love to see is a replacement for UniBASIC. Server side language > bindings are what interest me. > Of course you can do this. Which of your clients do you think would be willing to pay me to develop all the subroutines in PHP ? You will never be able to go completely away from UniBASIC while keeping a U2 database. I don't think that's possible. How do you even address the database without going through the low-level read write core ? You have to scan the file structure, with a knowledge of groups and delimiters and link space and then be able to extract the records, and put them back... by frame. and append when necessary and relink. That's a lot of code. But you can certainly create the routines in PHP that do the file manangement with the UniBASIC relegated to just the middle level of read-write processing and nothing else, and then start building your PHP routines on *top* of these. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- This email was Anti Virus checked by Astaro Security Gateway. http://www.astaro.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Everybody loved cold starts... the equivalent of Ctl-Alt-Del -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Roy Beard Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:56 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs I really miss the GFEs and Ultimate's answer to everything " Do a cold start and let us know if it happens again" -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:51 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs > > >>I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" > drives, > >>1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or > >>Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. > > >>The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB > Winchester > >>"washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was > back > in > >>1981. > > Wow. You guys are really old. > > Charles Shaffer > Senior Analyst > NTN-Bower Corporation > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Started in 1984 on an ADDS Mentor with a 40 Mb hard disk and 12" tape George Gallen wrote: and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. Wow. You guys are really old. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I really miss the GFEs and Ultimate's answer to everything " Do a cold start and let us know if it happens again" -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:51 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs > > >>I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" > drives, > >>1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or > >>Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. > > >>The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB > Winchester > >>"washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was > back > in > >>1981. > > Wow. You guys are really old. > > Charles Shaffer > Senior Analyst > NTN-Bower Corporation > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Started in 1984 as a Computer Operator on a Prime 750 running Primos 18.? and Information 5.4. Three loud line printers and a big "band" printer. Two reel to reels for backups, which took 18 reels for a Full off of four 300MB washtub drives. Carrying them, 9 on an arm to our offsite location was always a treat. 2-part Decollator, always efficient when you have a few boxes of 4-part carbon reports. And a teletype style console that ate more paper than it printed. Gary P. Canedy Senior Database Analyst ProMutual Group (617) 757-6775 From: "Don P. Nagai" To: "'U2 Users List'" Date: 02/07/2011 11:43 AM Subject:Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs Sent by:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Houben Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:39 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- This email and any files transmitted with it are intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute, print, or copy the email, or take any action in reliance on its contents. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
and we had to walk to work in bare feet uphill both ways! > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:52 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs > > >>I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" > drives, > >>1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or > >>Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. > > >>The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB > Winchester > >>"washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was > back > in > >>1981. > > Wow. You guys are really old. > > Charles Shaffer > Senior Analyst > NTN-Bower Corporation > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
>>I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, >>1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or >>Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. >>The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester >>"washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in >>1981. Wow. You guys are really old. Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I started on Microdata systems back in 1982. Same big 'ol "washtub" drives, 1/2" reel tapes and Interrupt-Reset-Interrupt or Interrupt-Reset-Clock-Interrupt paddle-switch sequences. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Houben Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:39 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
The first machine I worked on was a Microdata 1600 with 4 50 MB Winchester "washtub" drives. It ran 16 users on 64K of core memory. That was back in 1981. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of charles_shaf...@ntn-bower.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 8:30 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs >>I started in 1988, as a technical support representative for a subsidiary of the Ultimate Corp. >>We had a computer room with several big old machines with "reel" tapesBack in the days of GFEs and all of those good things. Wow, those were the >>days. I also started in 1988 on an Ultimate system. In fact, I just came across a RECALL manual from that system. Copyright 07 Feb 1983 out of Hanover, NJ. Anybody need one? Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
>>I started in 1988, as a technical support representative for a subsidiary of the Ultimate Corp. >>We had a computer room with several big old machines with "reel" tapesBack in the days of GFEs and all of those good things. Wow, those were the >>days. I also started in 1988 on an Ultimate system. In fact, I just came across a RECALL manual from that system. Copyright 07 Feb 1983 out of Hanover, NJ. Anybody need one? Charles Shaffer Senior Analyst NTN-Bower Corporation ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
Boy, I really miss those GFE'sNOT. But I do miss the M/D Spirit Machine (Reality). It was really something else in it's day. I really like the feature that if there was a power failure, it would write memory to disk, then shutdown, and when the power came back up, it restored memory from disk after booting, and continuing all the processes as if nothing had happened! - That was nice. > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bessel, Karen > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:00 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs > > I started in 1988, as a technical support representative for a > subsidiary of the Ultimate Corp. > > We had a computer room with several big old machines with "reel" > tapesBack in the days of GFEs and all of those good things. Wow, > those were the days. > > > > > Karen Bessel > Developer > Tyler Technologies, Inc. > > 972.713.3770 ext: 113472 > www.tylertech.com > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
That is about the time I started in Pick also. As a computer operator on an Ultimate Honeywell Bull box with reel to reel tapes. I remember when it was replaced with an AIX box running UniData. That box was tiny compared with the Ultimate. Now it would be huge compared to what AIX runs on today. Brenda L Price UniVerse Lead Programmer Rapid Response Team Market America, Inc. Greensboro, NC U2 User Group Board Member - u2ug.org > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bessel, Karen > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:00 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs > > I started in 1988, as a technical support representative for a > subsidiary of the Ultimate Corp. > > We had a computer room with several big old machines with "reel" > tapesBack in the days of GFEs and all of those good things. Wow, > those were the days. > > > > > Karen Bessel > Developer > Tyler Technologies, Inc. > > 972.713.3770 ext: 113472 > www.tylertech.com > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] Pick Dinosaurs
I started in 1988, as a technical support representative for a subsidiary of the Ultimate Corp. We had a computer room with several big old machines with "reel" tapesBack in the days of GFEs and all of those good things. Wow, those were the days. Karen Bessel Developer Tyler Technologies, Inc. 972.713.3770 ext: 113472 www.tylertech.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
