RE: How far can U2 scale?
Interesting subject! I think I'm in Brian's camp on this one -- scalability is most dependent on application system and its architecture -- of which the database system is a critical component. I'm wondering where n-tier applications fit into this discussion. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the architecture of most MV applications is at best a 2-tier design... and the client tier tends to be very thin. With such a design, it seems reasonable to say that for a well designed 2-tier application, the performance characteristics and capability of the database system to use available hardware resources are significant factors. What little bit I know about n-tier architecture tells me the database system is a scalability factor, but the addition of other components in the application needed to coordinate application functionality across the various tiers plays a HUGE role. Well designed applications that can scale by adding systems seems like a powerful notion. But, just like the 2-tier application, scalability is still dependent on the capability of the overall application design (including its third-party components) and its capable to use the available hardware resources. N-tier seems like scalability Nirvana to me -- though very difficult to achieve. Are there highly scalable n-tier applications using Universe, Unidata, jBASE, etc? Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 6:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: How far can U2 scale? At what point in the life of application software would it be so large that you could not (or would not want to) support it with your existing UniData or UniVerse database? Is there a point where you would be better served by DB2 or Oracle, for example due to the scale you are working with? I hear people talk about moving way from U2 in order to do ODBC and use standard industry tools (and most find that the grass is not greener for those purposes), but I don't hear about switching because of running into scaling issues. However, we sometimes think of PICK as addressing small-to-mid size businesses and RDBMS folks sometimes think of their products as scaling the best. So, what's the cut-off for U2? Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[UV] ODBC Account Flavor
I'm plowing through a project to setup a standard UV-ODBC table and column definition for our application. Our application database accounts are setup as PICK flavored accounts. For ODBC, we're going to setup a separate account for each application account with file pointers to the DATA portion of files and cleaned-up local dictionary files. I've been told by IBM that the ODBC account must be IDEAL flavor. I know that isn't totally true as I have a proof-of-concept system setup where the ODBC account is setup as PICK flavor. Like application accounts, is the flavor of the ODBC account simply a matter of preference? Or are there limitations with ODBC and PICK flavored accounts that I should be aware of? Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [UV] ODBC Account Flavor
My only .02 is that the fully compliant schema seems to interact better with odbc SQL clients - probably because using CREATE-TABLE commands makes the dictionaries exactly what they should be, and the creation of things like UV_TABLES. We probably won't go so far as to define a SQL schema on the account, but I can definitely see how it removes many of the difficulties in getting and ODBC interface up and running. Thanks for your response... the level of feedback I'm looking for. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Jbase handles multivalue on RDBMS
And for the not so faint of heart, jBASE provides the capability to roll your own driver(s) to transform your MV database definition into the relational database without using the jEDI development kit. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate And I can use my shoe as a hammer, but of course it doesn't work so well that way. The drivers can be written in BASIC... so any programmer can do it. But, in the context of using DB2 (or some other relational database) as the application's primary data store, writing those drivers in C or C++ will probably yield a little better throughput. You also don't get the other bells and whistles included in the jEDI development kit. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: The future of U2
U2 TO DB2 --- Best thing to Happen. H... I don't think I'll touch that one other than to say that only time will tell. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: UniVerse on NT vs *nix - Higher User Counts with W2003?
Simon, I know of at least one site running over 500 users on a W2K box, though I tend to think this is exceptionally high. Given the architecture and limitations of Windows, making any assurance for scalability inside the box WITHOUT TESTING is difficult when you get above 300 users. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Kirkham, Simon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:49 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: UniVerse on NT vs *nix - Higher User Counts with W2003? Now I'm worried... We've got a 300 user enterprise installation runnning on win2k (enterprise), and the user count regularly goes well over 300 (388 right now). What symptoms of hitting the around 300 user ceiling might I see? For info, hardware is an 8xcpu dell box, 2Gb ram, 80gb external raid box. Users are mostly uniobject telnet clients, no significant batch jobs during main office hours. Performance is no problem (except when a redback process goes nuts, but thats another story). Simon Simon Kirkham IS Manager Taunton Deane B.C. Tel 01823 356396 Fax 01823 356329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen O'Neal Sent: 09 March 2004 09:16 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: UniVerse on NT vs *nix - Higher User Counts with W2003? Yes, currently, most W2000 installations max out at about 300 users. We may be at a point of transition. The old ceiling of around 300 users on W2000 may increase to a higher threshold with W2003. Initial tests (although limited) on W2003 point to some of the inherent bottlenecks may be removed that were in W2000. We have not performed any formal benchmarks (nor do we have any scheduled soon) to attempt to scale a W2003 system to maximum user load with an application. (Humor here...) Given the huge sucking sound that comes from the black hole in the UniVerse called Microsoft, I believe there will be someone out there that will upgrade from W2000 to W2003. They may observe more scalability of their applications as we have in our limited testing. This may be the first place where we observe the user counts going up on W2003 systems. Has anyone performed an upgrade from W2000 to W2003 and gotten more users on their system? (Quantify if possible.) Curious, Steve Stephen M. O'Neal, CDP IBM Data Management Solutions U2 Professional Services, Special Projects) Ken Wallis [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] st.com cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: UniVerse on NT vs *nix u2-users-bounces@ oliver.com 03/08/2004 06:42 PM Please respond to U2 Users Discussion List Sara Burns wrote: I am under considerable pressure to convert from UniVerse on AIX to UniVerse on Windows 2003. We have licenses for 320 users and do
RE: UV - is there a coldstart equivalent
Universe does not have a coldstart process within the database environment. The .rc scripts on UNIX have been mentioned. On Windows, the Resource Kit has a service that can be installed called AUTOEXNT.EXE. The AUTOEXNT Service allows you to start a custom batch file -- AUTOEXNT.BAT -- when you start a computer without having to log onto the computer on which it will run. I haven't used AUTOEXNT to fire off processes within Universe, but I suppose the AUTOEXNT.BAT script would need to wait for Universe to start up, then fire up your Universe phantom. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Donald Kibbey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: UV - is there a coldstart equivalent On a Unix based system you can use the cron facilities to perform periodic mantenance and the startup script to perform onetime chores when the UniVerse daemons are first started. The same thing can be done under Windoze by using either the builtin scheduler or a cron substitute. Replacing the shortcut or start menu link with a script or batch file would take care of the startup process. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/09/04 12:04PM In D3 there is a coldstart process that runs when the database is started which is useful from an applications stand point by clearing status files, starting application phantoms and general cleanup. There does not seem to be an equivalent mechanism in Universe. What have people done to provide similar and reliable functionality? -Troy -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: UV - Database backup
You may not have SUSPEND.FILES as the following link indicates this feature was added on the 9.5C release: http://www.indexinfocus.com/dl/u2list/200211/40606.html I wouldn't be surprised if SUSPEND.FILES didn't make it into the User Ref documentation until 9.6, or later. You might check the UV account VOC file for an item called SUSPEND.FILES... if you have this item, then I would think the SUSPEND.FILES command is available for you to use. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Robert Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: UV - Database backup I just searched the admin guide, and the user reference, and SUSPEND.FILES wasn't found in either of them. Could this be version related? Tried it in the development account, and got this: :SUSPEND.FILES Verb SUSPEND.FILES is not in your VOC. Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/08/04 11:58AM SUSPEND.FILES is documented in the UniVerse User Reference manual (and briefly in the admin manual). The commands are SUSPEND.FILES ON and SUSPEND.FILES OFF. If you're doing it from the O/S level, you may want toQ use the uv -admin -L option, which performs the same thing as SUSPEND.FILES ON. uv -admin -U will turn it off. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: How to Add Triggers on Dicts
ED VOC DICT.IN.MASTER 0001: F 0002: E:\accounts\_source.DEV\D_IN.MASTER 0003: E:\accounts\_source.DEV\D_IN.MASTER Conceptually, I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. This VOC pointer seems to be all right. The work I was on UNIX running 10.1... I don't have a Windows system handy at the moment, so I can't give you're scenario a try. Ran this CREATE TRIGGER AUDIT_DICT AFTER INSERT OR UPDATE OR DELETE ON DICT.IN.MASTER FOR EACH ROW CALLING 'RC.DATA.TRIGGER Looks good. Adding trigger AUDIT_DICT UniVerse/SQL: Unable to open E:\accounts\_source.DEV\D_IN.MASTER/DICT.IN.MASTER. UniVerse/SQL: Could not add trigger AUDIT_DICT. No idea why the system is trying to open E:\accounts\_source.DEV\D_IN.MASTER/DICT.IN.MASTER. The error is correct in stating that this path does not exists. But, I have no clue why the system would concatenate the VOC ITEM name -- DICT.IN.MASTER -- to the path name in attribute 2 -- E:\accounts\_source.DEV\D_IN.MASTER -- to derive the path of the file. That does not seem right. I'd probably try setting up a scenario where the values in attribute 2 and 3 are simply the name of the file -- D_IN.MASTER. Otherwise, you might give IBM a call to see if they can help. Tom Firl -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: How to Add Triggers on Dicts
I successfully used this technique a few months back during a little troubleshooting exercise... I simply created an F-pointer that specified the D_FileName in both attributes 2 and 3. Essentially, you end up with an entity that gives you similar behavior to the reflexive Q-pointers you see on the traditional PICK platforms. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Daly, Mark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 3/2/2004 6:28 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Cc: Subject:RE: How to Add Triggers on Dicts Well.. It wouldn't surprise me if the CREATE TRIGGER command doesn't recognize the 'DICT' keyword. Triggers generally deal with data updates. I guess you could create a dummy file pointer that points to the dictionary as though it were a data file. Then reference that pointer when creating the trigger. BUT - I haven't tried it. Not sure I would try it. Good luck! -Original Message- From: Dennis Bartlett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:20 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: How to Add Triggers on Dicts The trigger is currently working fine on DATA files. It's just the adding of it to DICT files that's boggling me at present. Once I've got that right, I'll have to think of some way to monitor Type 1/19 files, but that's another day. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: UniVerse and Backup Exec
I wish I could take the credit... some nice folks at jBASE tracked this information down for me a few years back and I've found it useful for troubleshooting telnet connection issues on Windows. Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Gwen Buck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:47 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: UniVerse and Backup Exec snip Excellent write up Tom. This is a keeper email. Thanks, -Doug snip Yes, Tom. The Windows SharedSection registry tweak write-up was great. I apologize for neglecting to acknowledge it sooner! Thank you, Gwen Buck -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Real Time Data Warehouse
I would question how real time the OLAP BI tools are never mind the database. Yes, the real-time requirement is ambiguous. It will be addressed as we flesh out the tactical analysis requirements for the BI tools. I would suspect they are looking for a dashboard solution rather than an OLAP tool. BI, OLAP, and reporting is required by the project (among some other things). BI will be used for tactical analysis using real-time data. OLAP will be used for strategic analysis using point-in-time data. And, reporting is essentially for generating external reports for customers. I have been putting a white paper together to try an identify that PICK is the platform of choice for this time of environment. I'm not going to touch that one... though I understand your point ~8^) Thanks for your response! Tom Firl -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Real Time Data Warehouse
Just for some more background here is the real reason you are having to go through the ETL is so that the users can play with your data using 'standard' BI tools like Cognos against the SQL database ? Yes. Also, what USE is the information going to be put to ?! To be determined... but I get your message. Tactical analysis is a critical component in the businesses we cater to. Thanks for your response. Tom Firl -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Real Time Data Warehouse
Another possible name for a real-time data warehouse is Operational Data Store (ODS). I'm somewhat familiar with the concept ODS, I don't think it will play a role in this project, but it is on my radar. Any approach to actually porting data to SQL Server, for example, sounds so small and innocent until two years down the line you add up the costs of hardware, software, training for users and IT, on-going support, etc and find that it was a much bigger expense than anyone estimated up front. I hear what you are saying... on more than one level. Thanks for your reply Dawn. Tom Firl -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Real Time Data Warehouse
So, I'm moving on from my encrypted database problem (that was put on hold) and now I have a new, interesting problem. I'm looking at a proposal that seems to demand a solution that is a cross between a data replication system and a data warehouse. The system needs to be able to Extract data from a feed up updates to specified Universe or jBASE files in real-time (once a minute, or so will suffice), do some Transformation on the data, then Load the data into a DB2 or SQL Server (not my implementation requirement... don't yell at me). During peak times, I'm supposing could be over a thousand updates per minute written to the data replication feed. I don't know if it's reasonable to expect this system to be able to handle that kind of throughput... that is to be determined. The rationale for the system is to allow people to use standard reporting, OLAP, and BI tools. In industry parlance, I think such a system is called a Real Time Data Warehouse (RTDW). So, here's where you can help... I'm brainstorming for design/implementation ideas. First, I'm trying to get the lay-of-the-land of tools and companies that can help with the ETL (Extract-Transform-Load) part of this project (is this what DataStage does?). Where do I look? Second, I'm searching for clever ideas about how to create and extract the data feed containing file updates -- such as leveraging UV-DR. I'd prefer to create the data replication feed in isolation from the ETL tool. Seeing as I'm a little lazy (and hoping we won't have to roll our own) I'd like to evaluate off-the-shelf solutions. TIA, Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: mkdbfile: create file in another account
Nice catch, Karl. My jBASE-thinking brain completely spaced off the need for F pointers on Universe. It's good to know you're still willing to correct my mistakes ~8^) Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Karl L Pearson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:33 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: mkdbfile: create file in another account That syntax worked for me (sh -c on Linux rather than DOC /C) but, it doesn't make a DICT file, so the file isn't accessible through TCL commands. I had to add a DICT to the VOC entry I also had to add as the command doesn't create either a DICT file or the VOC entry... I repeat myself. Karl On Tue, 2004-01-27 at 19:31, Kate Stanton wrote: MessageThanks. That (using DOS \C rather than sh -c) got rid of the error message, but it did not seem to create a file. Looks like I have the wrong syntax, but it is rather hard to look up the documentation! I still feel uncomfortable using an undocumented feature - no security it will not disappear or change. - Original Message - From: Daly, Mark To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:23 AM Subject: RE: mkdbfile: create file in another account Well, I just posed this question - and mkdbfile was the suggestion that won! However, I didn't create a VOC entry. The idea (I believe) is to execute this command at the OS prompt - not TCL. Since it looks like you're on Windows it would be something like so: EXECUTE 'sh -c cd C:\BeaconUV\DevelData\XXINV\KKINV; ':SYSTEM(32):'\bin\mkdbfile DATA \XXINV\KKINV 30 1 4 20 50 80 1068' It's not documented, since it's really an internal UV command - as opposed to a TCL statement of BASIC function. The CREATE.FILE verb needs to be enhanced to perform this function - and prevent us from dabbling in the 'bin' directory. But until then - this is the way to go. HTH, Mark. Original Message- From: Kate Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: mkdbfile: create file in another account Does anyone know anything about using mkdbfile (from UV bin) to create a file in an account other than the current user account? A colleague told me about it, but it does not seem to be documented, and does not seem to work on my UV 10.0.17 system on Windows 2000, as it does on his UV 9.5.2.1 on Windows something. I tried, according to his instructions: VOC mkdbfile 0001: V 0002: mkdbfile 0003: E 0004: FG 0005: 0006: PICK.FORMAT Then, from TCL: mkdbfile C:\BeaconUV\DevelData\XXINV\KKINV 30 1 4 20 50 80 1068 where: C:\BeaconUV\DevelData\XXINV\KKINV is pathname of file to create 30 is file type 1 is modulo 4 is separation 20 is hash type 50 is max load 80 is split load 1096 is large record size This gave error message: invalid filetype specified I feel very nervous about using something that is not documented, so presumably may not be reliably supported. Anyone know anything, please? Cheers, Kate Kate Stanton Walstan Systems Ltd 4 Kelmarna Ave, Herne Bay, Auckland, New Zealand ph +64 9 360 5310 fax +64 9 376 0750 ah +64 9 378 9594 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Karl L. Pearson Director of IT, ATS Industrial Supply Direct: 801-978-4429 Toll-free: 888-972-3182 x29 Fax: 801-972-3888 http://www.atsindustrial.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: mkdbfile: create file in another account
Title: Message I don't think you need to "cd" command as the mkdbfile will accept the absolute path to the file you are creating. If you need to execute multiple commands in the same DOS shell, then separate the commands with an ampersand () instead of semi-colon (;). I'd be a little surprised if mkdbfile disappeared or required changes to your code, but you never know. I'm pretty sure the Universe installation scripts/programs -- among other things -- use mkdbfile quite extensively. At any rate, give the following a whirl... EXECUTE 'DOS /C "':SYSTEM(32):'\bin\mkdbfileC:\BeaconUV\DevelData\XXINV\KKINV 30 1 4 20 50 80 1068"' Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message-From: Kate Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:32 PMTo: U2 Users Discussion ListSubject: Re: mkdbfile: create file in another account Thanks. That (using DOS \C rather than sh -c) got rid of the errormessage, but it did not seem tocreate a file. Looks like I have the wrong syntax, but it is rather hard to look up the documentation! I still feel uncomfortable using an undocumented feature - no security it will not disappear or change. - Original Message - From: Daly, Mark To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:23 AM Subject: RE: mkdbfile: create file in another account Well, I just posed this question - andmkdbfile was the suggestion that won! However, I didn't create a VOC entry. The idea (I believe) is to execute this command at the OS prompt - not TCL. Since it looks like you're on Windows it would be something like so: EXECUTE 'sh -c "cd C:\BeaconUV\DevelData\XXINV\KKINV; ':SYSTEM(32):'\bin\mkdbfile DATA\XXINV\KKINV 30 1 4 20 50 80 1068' It's not documented, since it's really an internal UV command - as opposed to a TCL statement of BASIC function. The CREATE.FILE verb needs to be enhanced to perform this function - and prevent us from dabbling in the 'bin' directory. But until then - this is the way to go. HTH, Mark. Original Message-From: Kate Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 4:17 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: mkdbfile: create file in another account Does anyone know anything about using mkdbfile (from UV bin) to create a file in an account other than the current user account? A colleague told me about it, but it does not seem to be documented, and does not seem to work on my UV 10.0.17 system on Windows 2000, as it does on his UV 9.5.2.1 on Windows something. I tried, according to his instructions: VOC mkdbfile 0001: V 0002: mkdbfile 0003: E 0004: FG 0005: 0006: PICK.FORMAT Then, from TCL: mkdbfile C:\BeaconUV\DevelData\XXINV\KKINV 30 1 4 20 50 80 1068 where: C:\BeaconUV\DevelData\XXINV\KKINV is pathname of file to create 30 is file type 1 is modulo 4 is separation 20 is hash type 50 is max load 80 is split load 1096 is large record size This gave error message: invalid filetype specified I feel very nervous about using something that is not documented, so presumably may not be reliably supported. Anyone know anything, please? Cheers, Kate Kate StantonWalstan Systems Ltd4 Kelmarna Ave, Herne Bay, Auckland, New Zealandph +64 9 360 5310 fax +64 9 376 0750ah +64 9 378 9594[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___u2-users mailing list[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
