Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice
Dear all, Recently I sent an email around asking for information of where to get a laptop,, linux compatible, without Microsoft bundled in with the deal. This appears to be difficult. Accordingly. I have written an email (and will follow up with a phone call soon) about the situation. I believe that only through consumer action can this competition-unhealthy situation be resolved. I urge you all to also contact the ACCC about this issue. The more we are heard, the more likely something might be done about it. Here below is the email I sent to the ACCC: To whom it may concern, I would like to inquire into the legality within Australia of the following situation: Lenovo computers, has a deal with microsoft that; 1. All lenovo computers must be sold with Microsoft Windows Vista 2. Consumers have no choice in this matter. They can neither opt for No operating system, or opt for a different operating system. 3. Consumers must also pay for this extra product which they did not ask for, and quite likely do not want. Windows vista is an operating system which has been over time shown to be lacking driver support and software compatibility. It is not acceptable that this is through deals between Lenovo (and most other hardware providers) and Microsoft, consumer choice suffers in this manner. Please advise me as to a) the view point of Australian law, with issues such as these. b) What action I can take . c) How the ACCC can help me in this matter. --- Please write your own complaint, in your own words, and help provide a more competitive environment with the computing industry! Sean -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
Re: Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice
By the way, here is the URL where you can find the link to an online form: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217#h2_38 link is titled: General complaints form (opens in new window) http://www.accc.gov.au/content/maintain/create/index.phtml?contentTypeItemId=9133informationSpaceItemId=268347fromItemId=21094inPop=1returnUrl=.type=Other have fun! -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
RE: Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice
Heya Sean Have you checked out Dell? They support preinstalled Red Hat. Also know for a fact if you go into Harvey Norman you can opt out of having windows come with the laptop and they take the price off. Also HP laptops can have the option to have preinstalled Suse. It may not have preinstalled ubuntu but atleast you know its supported for linux. The ACCC can not tell people how to run their business. If the ACCC forced international hardware vendors to support linux then they would also have to force them support Solaris, BSD, OSX10 etc. As far as I know Dell and HP trialled preinstalled linux back in 2004 – 2006 and there was not enough demand so they have stopped marketing it. Its not the ACCC you need to be contacting but the vendors themselves. As consumer you do have a right to not be charged for windows but you can not force a business like Harvey Norman to sell laptops with Linux or even the hardware vendors themselves. It may cost a company like HP could argue it costs too much money to make a laptop compatable with Linux then it would windows for example. Getting the ACCC involved you are really just attacking the developers of Linux themselves. What you may find though the current Ubuntu will work fine on most modern laptops anyways but pays to do some research. Go to the vendors like Toshiba, HP, Dell direct put in your request and they will point you in the right direction. Just because Lenovo only supports windows doesn’t mean other laptops do, Lenovo is a sub company of IBM, and you can buy IBM laptops that do support Linux so the ACCC can not do anything about it. It’s the companies choice and your choice to buy from them. So what next going to get ACCC force Apple to have to support Solaris and/or NetBSD? Rick From: ubuntu-au-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-au-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Sean Van Buggenum Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:47 PM To: ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice Dear all, Recently I sent an email around asking for information of where to get a laptop,, linux compatible, without Microsoft bundled in with the deal. This appears to be difficult. Accordingly. I have written an email (and will follow up with a phone call soon) about the situation. I believe that only through consumer action can this competition-unhealthy situation be resolved. I urge you all to also contact the ACCC about this issue. The more we are heard, the more likely something might be done about it. Here below is the email I sent to the ACCC: To whom it may concern, I would like to inquire into the legality within Australia of the following situation: Lenovo computers, has a deal with microsoft that; 1. All lenovo computers must be sold with Microsoft Windows Vista 2. Consumers have no choice in this matter. They can neither opt for No operating system, or opt for a different operating system. 3. Consumers must also pay for this extra product which they did not ask for, and quite likely do not want. Windows vista is an operating system which has been over time shown to be lacking driver support and software compatibility. It is not acceptable that this is through deals between Lenovo (and most other hardware providers) and Microsoft, consumer choice suffers in this manner. Please advise me as to a) the view point of Australian law, with issues such as these. b) What action I can take . c) How the ACCC can help me in this matter. --- Please write your own complaint, in your own words, and help provide a more competitive environment with the computing industry! Sean __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4086 (20090519) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
RE: Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice
Here is a website that sells laptops with linux preinstalled and a list outlining compatable you may notice Lenovo is highly compatible with linux so you may want to check your information source before you go ahead with the complaint. http://www.vgcomputing.com.au/nsintro.html Rick From: ubuntu-au-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com [mailto:ubuntu-au-boun...@lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Sean Van Buggenum Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:52 PM To: ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice By the way, here is the URL where you can find the link to an online form: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/54217#h2_38 link is titled: General http://www.accc.gov.au/content/maintain/create/index.phtml?contentTypeItemId=9133informationSpaceItemId=268347fromItemId=21094inPop=1returnUrl=.type=Other complaints form (opens in new window) have fun! __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4086 (20090519) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
Re: Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice
@ Rick, Perhaps I was misunderstood. Of course I do not expect any company to support any particular OS, if they do not want. For whatever good or bad reason. That is their choice. But the choice to have NO OS installed by default should be available to the consumer. -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
Re: Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice
@Rick, It is not an issue of compatibility. I am not debating the compatibility of Lenovo laptops with Ubuntu. I am debating the legality of Microsoft and Lenovo not providing the option NOT to buy microsoft products WITH Lenovo laptops. This is anti-competitive behavior, something which Microsoft has already had trouble with in various countries. Including their home country, the USA. When you buy a Lenovo laptop, one is FORCED to buy microsoft windows vista on top of that. I have already confirmed with vgcomputing via email, and had correspondence from one 'Bob' there. He is NOT able to sell provide me with (or himself at least) with a Lenovo laptop that does not have VISTA on it already. He is (as he tells me) not able to provide, or receive a refund for removing vista from a laptop. Please see email below: Hello Sean, For Linux I do typically recommend the Lenovo Thinkpad range. Generally these laptops have always worked well with Linux and tend to be the best choice. Unfortunately we can only receive laptops with a version of Windows pre-installed from the manufacturer and we are unable to remove it for a refund. We have been trying to obtain a good quality laptop with excellent linux compatibility without Windows pre-installed for quite a while now but we have been unsuccessful thus far. A few people have reported being able to obtain a refund from the manufacturer after purchasing the laptop but this may not always be possible. For your needs I would actually recommend the Lenovo Thinkpad SL500 or the Lenovo Thinkpad T500. Here are the specifications and a quote. etc etc -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
RE: Hardware companies, Microsoft, Competition and Consumer Choice
Hi to all... One of the biggest things that I feel is that makes Linux an unattractive alternate, there is too much choice! yes you have main stream distributions that most tend to stick with, but then you also have a lot of not so main stream as well. Now, don't get me wrong here, but the issue is that to the unaware consumer just what is Linux? something that a geek uses! and it is with this, image of Linux it will not be taken on as a majority OS. I actually appreciate that as an individual you have a choice! :) Now when I recently purchased 2 Eee PC's (701SD) they came bundled with Xandros pre-installed, I gave Xandros a run for about 2 hours then I was installing Easy Peasy (remix of Ubuntu Intrepid) But what made me go down this path was that although the Xandros OS was functional, upon the first update out of the 3 repo's only one was still available (the other 2 returned 404's) so ASUS or Xandros (what ever the arrangement is) has not maintained the repository server a mere 2 years out from the 701 initial release. For me this was simple replace Xandros with Ubuntu! but my point being, is that even though Linux made its appearance on the Netbook scene, its support has not been followed up (no doubt due to lack of sales) I'm sure to that those with enough knowledge have either replaced the default Xandros with Windows and save themselves a few dollars in doing so. So what is the answer to this? and how can it be changed? Well in the short term, I don't think there is anything one can really do to make a significant change to the status quo... However, as a unified community I believe we can! So back to the issue, I'm not a lawyer! but there has to be something tucked away in the murky depths of consumer law that permits the consumer to be able to have a choice in what they want... Scott Evans VK7HSE Phone: +61362291658 Mobile: +61417586157 Skype: vk7hse sc...@vk7hse.hobby-site.org http://www.vk7hse.hobby-site.org PGP/GPG Key ID 74639624 -- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. attachment: UbuntuStrapLogo.pngattachment: face-smile.png-- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
Re: laptop
On Tue, 19 May 2009 22:49:42 +1000 Peter Garrett peter.garr...@optusnet.com.au wrote: Hi Karl, forwarded as you suggest. Thanks. Replying to you and the list, if people want further input from me, please CC me on replies (I wont be digging through the list archive). Begin forwarded message: Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 12:02:01 +1000 From: Peter Garrett peter.garr...@optusnet.com.au To: ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: laptop On Sun, 17 May 2009 15:19:42 +0200 Sean Van Buggenum sva...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone got any suggestions? I need a high powered laptop for development on the run (which is nice and Linux compatible of course). And i don't want to have to buy a windows license bundled in with my hardware. I have no idea if these laptops are good - I haven't seen one other than on the web - but you might look at: http://www.pioneercomputers.com.au/products/ I'd like to suggest against Pioneer, because... Several laptops, and you can get Ubuntu pre-installed, or no OS - just choose the Build your own option and select. ... I have had a rather bad time with them. Heres some of my gripes (some may be a little petty, but at the time they were starting to build up). * Took 13 - 15 working days (from payment - system arriving), not the few days promised on the site. * System can not have a 64 bit os (unless its Vista) installed on it. - tried over 3 versions of opensolaris (including 2008.05, 2008.11 snapshot and 2008.11 final.) - tried Debian Lenny (testing at the time), 64bit - tried Ubuntu 8.04 (.01 or 0.2, 64bit version.). None of these 3 systems worked with 64 bit installs. Most releases I tried (of the same systems) didnt work with 32bit systems either. * Bios has text such as: - FOR EVALUATION USE ONLY. NOT FOR RESALE - ... Reference BIOS (But according to the manufacturer, its the latest release... o_0) * Tech support guy was almost imposable to hear, and not at all helpful. * Proforma invoice didnt match what I ordered via the website (I didn't pull them up on it, at the time, needed a machine to work on. And if it had worked, I'd have not cared). * The website didnt specify which OS's in which configurations are supported on the hardware, and even offers Ubuntu pre-loaded. *** despite only the 32 bit version working *** kk Peter -- Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS) Debian user / gNewSense contributor http://www.kgoetz.id.au No, I won't join your social networking group signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
Re: Mounting Remote Share @ Boot
Hi Simon, On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 12:59 +1000, Paul Gear wrote: Simon Ives wrote: I've got a NFS share on my file server that I mount at boot on my client computers. The share mounts without issue, except on the clients that connect to the network via a wireless connection. On these computers I have to execute sudo mount -a once the network's connected to get the share to mount. Is there an option to get the share to mount after the network's up? In my opinion, autofs is a better way to do that. autofs is pretty old skool by today's standards. Do you have /etc/network/if-up.d/mountnfs ? that should take care of it for you. When the network interface comes up it should mount the NFS shares automagically for you. Cheers Dave -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
Re: Mounting Remote Share @ Boot
Dave Hall wrote: Hi Simon, On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 12:59 +1000, Paul Gear wrote: Simon Ives wrote: I've got a NFS share on my file server that I mount at boot on my client computers. The share mounts without issue, except on the clients that connect to the network via a wireless connection. On these computers I have to execute sudo mount -a once the network's connected to get the share to mount. Is there an option to get the share to mount after the network's up? In my opinion, autofs is a better way to do that. autofs is pretty old skool by today's standards. It may have been around for a while, but that doesn't mean it's not the best tool for the job. :-) I use it because it works well, and because i don't have to worry about the connection being broken next time i come to use it, which has historically been a problem with persistent NFS mounts. Paul begin:vcard fn:Paul Gear n:Gear;Paul org:Liberty Systems Software email;internet:p...@libertysys.com.au tel;work:07 3122 2198 tel;cell:04 3183 7656 url:http://libertysys.com.au/ version:2.1 end:vcard smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- ubuntu-au mailing list ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
