Re: An early cry for help for testing Release Candidates
On Tue, April 10, 2012 9:50 pm, Janne Jokitalo wrote: Hi, it's that time again, the end of a cycle is at hand. This time it's something special, too. (yea I know we always say that) But it's the first LTS (long term support) release with the new system basing on Xubuntu (and its XFCE Desktop Environment), so we'd like to ask for Your assistance in making sure all possible wrinkles are getting ironed out, to provide as bug-free release as possible. It would be nice to know when there are actual changes to look for. Todays ISO looks pretty much the same as last week. There are changes, but they don't seem to have made it to the ISO yet. (sound icon still doesn't get PA mixer, menu not fixed, lightdm BG not changed, etc.) What we have is pretty good though... -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Call for testing: MySQL security updates
Hi, I have pushed updated MySQL 5.0.96 packages for Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, and updated MySQL 5.1.62 packages for Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, Ubuntu 11.04 and Ubuntu 11.10 into the -proposed pocket. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed for documentation how to enable and use -proposed. The packages fix the following security issues: 5.1.62: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/news-5-1-62.html yaSSL was upgraded from version 1.7.2 to 2.2.0. Security Fix: Bug #13510739 and Bug #63775 were fixed. 5.0.96: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/news-5-0-96.html yaSSL was upgraded from version 1.7.2 to 2.2.0. Please report any issues in the tracking bug: https://launchpad.net/bugs/965523 If no issues are reported, I plan on releasing the packages as security updates in a couple of weeks. Thanks, Marc. -- Marc Deslauriers Ubuntu Security Engineer | http://www.ubuntu.com/ Canonical Ltd. | http://www.canonical.com/ -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: XULRunner in 12.04
Hi Stefano, Thanks for the clarification. Chris On Sat 07 Apr 2012 17:22:06 BST, Stefano Rivera wrote: Hi Chris (2012.04.04_15:01:54_+0200) Is there a reason the package is not longer there or is this just an oversight? Intentional. With Firefox's rapid release cycle, we couldn't provide a stable xulrunner for the life of the release. The removal bug [0] hints at this, although it assumes you already knew the background :) [0]: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xulrunner-1.9.2/+bug/816377 SR -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
[CFT - Closed] RC6 Enabled by Default on Sandy Bridge
Hi All, I just wanted to send a note to announce that the RC6 call for testing is now officially closed. We appreciate all of the testing feedback we received. It had a direct impact and influence on our decision to enable plain RC6 by default for Precise. Between the testing feedback we received and interaction with the upstream developers, we were also able to find and fix a handful of RC6 related issues. Kudos to all involved. Thanks, Leann Ogasawara On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 13:57 -0800, Leann Ogasawara wrote: On Thu, 2012-02-23 at 21:21 -0800, Leann Ogasawara wrote: On Sat, 2012-02-18 at 13:07 -0800, Leann Ogasawara wrote: [...] If you are running Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) and willing to test and provide feedback, please refer to our PowerManagementRC6 wiki for detailed instructions [3]. Additionally, instructions for reporting any issues with RC6 enabled are also noted on the wiki. We would really appreciate any testing and feedback users are able to provide. I first want to thank everyone who has already tested and provided their feedback. It is very much appreciated. There has however been some recent developments with the current RC6 patch which originated this call for testing. An adjustment has been made to that original patch: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/intel-gfx/2012-February/015319.html We're hoping this fix resolves the remaining issues when RC6 is enabled by default. A test kernel has already been built and posted to the RC6 bugs noted in the PowerManagementRC6 wiki [3]. For anyone else who was interested in testing, and wants to re-test, I ask that you please hold off until we are able to upload this additional fix. I hope to get a Beta Freeze exception for this and intend follow up with the Release Team accordingly. I will respond to this email once we have an official kernel in the archive ready for additional testing. We have uploaded a new Ubuntu kernel, v3.2.0-17.27, which contains the latest RC6 fix [4]. For anyone who tested previously, if you would be willing to re-test with this newer kernel, that would be great. I'd especially like to request that anyone who saw issues with RC6 when testing earlier to please re-test. Thanks again for all of the testing effort and feedback so far. I do apologize for the additional testing requests being made, but it is very much appreciated. Thanks, Leann Ogasawara [1] http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?68199-Intel-Wants-YOUR-Linux-Questions-Feedbackp=246785#post246785 [2] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/intel-gfx/2012-February/015131.html [3] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerManagementRC6 [4] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/3.2.0-17.27 -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Screen calibration at UDS with the ColorHug
Hi, I'll be at UDS with a ColorHug [1], the open source colour calibration tool that works with Ubuntu 12.04. I'll set up a calibration session where people can calibrate their laptop displays and we can see how well the software/hardware works. I know we wanted to set up a session for this a while ago but it never happened due to a lack of hardware (?). So if you have a ColorHug or similar device please bring it to UDS and look out for the session! --Robert [1] http://www.hughsie.com/ -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre mathieu...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Dane Mutters dmutt...@gmail.com wrote: [...] So, now that we've gotten some matters of conduct out of the way (we have, haven't we?), does anyone care to suggest what to do about making the GUI(s) of Ubuntu more usable for those who aren't OK with the current offerings? Have you considered trying the other window manager that are available for installation? Between Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu which each install their own different window manager by default; and being able to install GNOME Shell (gnome-shell) to replace Unity (or gnome-session-fallback for a GNOME2-like look), there's a fair amount of choice. No matter which option you'll choose, there is bound to be some amount of change in the look and feel, since even GNOME is moving away from what you're used to seeing in 10.04 with the two panels. That will mean some amount of relearning, with a varying transition period depending on your choice. As far as I can tell, from an LTS to LTS upgrade perspective it's all a matter of choosing whether you want to spend increasing amounts of time figuring out how to get the same look you were used to, or spending a (relatively) finite amount of time relearning interface to familiarize yourself with new window manager of choice. That's true for all other distros at this point in time, the difference is that Ubuntu has chosen to go with Unity as the default window manager for Ubuntu Desktop installs (as opposed to Kubuntu or others). There's somewhat more to it than that. The major issue (among many other issues) is that the new GUIs don't do the things that used to be available on the old one (Gnome 2). Example: I can't add a good system monitor to Gnome 3 because the old gnome-system-monitor applet (being an applet at all, apparently) is incompatible with Gnome 3. There are Gnome Shell implementations that are buggy and incomplete, of course, but I see no good reason to use a buggy and incomplete anything if a fully-functional version has been available for years. Of course, that's just a minor example, and won't be relevant for everyone; but the overall principle is important: what used to work no longer works. This goes beyond simply learning to click the new places; it's a matter of missing functionality and bugs. Scott, you said that Canonical is railroading Ubuntu to use Unity. Is this 100% certain? Also, is it 100% certain that Unity *must* continue in the direction it's currently moving in? It seems to have been optimized for netbooks, and as such, lacks much of what desktop (and large laptop) users find essential and/or appropriate. Do you know if there will be a desktop-centric version in the foreseeable future? Has there been any discussion of it? Finally, would a petition with, say, 100,000 signatures (or whatever large number seems appropriate), delivered to Mark Shuttleworth, be enough to get some say in this? Thanks for your input, everybody. --Dane -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
Le 11/04/2012 09:39, Dane Mutters a écrit : It seems to have been optimized for netbooks, and as such, lacks much of what desktop (and large laptop) users find essential and/or appropriate. Hi, That's simply not true, unity works great on a big screen (using a 24 screen here), it gives out most of the space for your work, has excellent keyboard navigation (now with the HUD you can as well access the menus without having to move the mouse at all) and the launcher and dash are friendly to mouse users as well. -- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:11:47AM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: On Tuesday, April 10, 2012 08:46:23 PM Dane Mutters wrote: Ubuntu is on a train and that train is called Unity. The tracks are being laid within Canonical and it is very difficult to influence where they are being put down from the outside. The Canonical design team has started to engage the community to discuss some of the relevant issues (although I haven't been following the details). You should accept that you aren't going to make major changes in where Unity is headed. It just isn't going to happen from the outside. You can either get on this Unity train or pick another one. Those are really the choices. Personally, I run Kubuntu. Xubuntu is also very popular. I believe that there is a community forming around the idea of trying to similarly provide a Gnome 3 experience from within the Ubuntu project. You need to figure out which one you like best. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. Lets put this in context. The final say is the customer. Ubuntu has got some problems right now, not just in the GUI, and I know of some sysadmins who have, after much strong language, gone back to straight Debian in the rack as well. I have been installing and recommending Ubuntu for the rack and desktop for several years now. I'm not religious about it. It's just a tool. If the tool becomes unfit or less effective for the purpose, I'll move to something else, as will many many others for whom this is just a business and is their livelihood. Even Microsoft has had problems with their attempts to change the GUI, even though they have kept much compatibility... people are still installing Windows XP Pro and many large offices have refused to upgrade. Why? Because the loss of productivity during a change of procedures they don't need and the retraining costs and down time for staff. I would be happy enough if you would put a selection panel with radio buttons itemizing the major choices for GUI. Pre-tick the Unity. But put installers a mouse click away from what they actually want. This peeve is a larger one though. A change in GUI should always be an optional exercise for an office. Anything that affects a business should be a matter of choice by the customer. Oh, and guys, get your act together on the virtual machine stuff... that was why one very senior sysadmin pulled Ubuntu and swore he'd never install it again... it was taking down a VM hosting machine every day or so and giving the ISP no end of grief from customers who were paying for high reliability service. He went to Debian squeeze and there have been no crashes in the last 6 months. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:39:51 AM Dane Mutters wrote: On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Mathieu Trudel-Lapierre mathieu...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Dane Mutters dmutt...@gmail.com wrote: [...] So, now that we've gotten some matters of conduct out of the way (we have, haven't we?), does anyone care to suggest what to do about making the GUI(s) of Ubuntu more usable for those who aren't OK with the current offerings? Have you considered trying the other window manager that are available for installation? Between Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu which each install their own different window manager by default; and being able to install GNOME Shell (gnome-shell) to replace Unity (or gnome-session-fallback for a GNOME2-like look), there's a fair amount of choice. No matter which option you'll choose, there is bound to be some amount of change in the look and feel, since even GNOME is moving away from what you're used to seeing in 10.04 with the two panels. That will mean some amount of relearning, with a varying transition period depending on your choice. As far as I can tell, from an LTS to LTS upgrade perspective it's all a matter of choosing whether you want to spend increasing amounts of time figuring out how to get the same look you were used to, or spending a (relatively) finite amount of time relearning interface to familiarize yourself with new window manager of choice. That's true for all other distros at this point in time, the difference is that Ubuntu has chosen to go with Unity as the default window manager for Ubuntu Desktop installs (as opposed to Kubuntu or others). There's somewhat more to it than that. The major issue (among many other issues) is that the new GUIs don't do the things that used to be available on the old one (Gnome 2). Example: I can't add a good system monitor to Gnome 3 because the old gnome-system-monitor applet (being an applet at all, apparently) is incompatible with Gnome 3. There are Gnome Shell implementations that are buggy and incomplete, of course, but I see no good reason to use a buggy and incomplete anything if a fully-functional version has been available for years. Of course, that's just a minor example, and won't be relevant for everyone; but the overall principle is important: what used to work no longer works. This goes beyond simply learning to click the new places; it's a matter of missing functionality and bugs. Scott, you said that Canonical is railroading Ubuntu to use Unity. Is this 100% certain? Also, is it 100% certain that Unity *must* continue in the direction it's currently moving in? It seems to have been optimized for netbooks, and as such, lacks much of what desktop (and large laptop) users find essential and/or appropriate. Do you know if there will be a desktop-centric version in the foreseeable future? Has there been any discussion of it? Finally, would a petition with, say, 100,000 signatures (or whatever large number seems appropriate), delivered to Mark Shuttleworth, be enough to get some say in this? They are on a path. The chances of them getting off the path in the near term are, IMO, nil. Your criticisms aren't unique, so I don't think they will get anywhere. Their view seems to be something like, We understand it's different and uncomfortable to change, but in the long run, you'll love it - trust us. I don't know more than anyone else about what their future plans are (probably less since I'm not a Unity user). That said, if you can find specific things you are having problems with and make specific suggestions about how to solve the problems that are generally their direction, you've got a chance of being heard. Go back to what it was has no chance at all. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
SSD with ubuntu -- Developer guidance please
Hi everyone. My name is Nicholas. I have a new computer that has an Intel SSD. I have some questions about using Ubuntu with an SSD that I hope ubuntu developers can answer for me. I've researched online but do not know how best to proceed as there seems to be differing advice. I see it mentioned online that I should mount with DISCARD. But an article from OpenSUSE says DISCARD is not good to use. http://opensuse.14.n6.nabble.com/SSD-detection-when-creating-first-time-fstab-td3313048.html Here are my questions 1.) are there any issues I should be aware of if using ubuntu on an SSD? Is ubuntu primarily intended to be used on HDD and not recommended for SSD? 2.) do you recommend TRIM be used for SSD with ubuntu? 3.) If you do recommend TRIM be used, how should TRIM be setup? Automatic wiping, or manual wiping? FITRIM, FSTRIM, or DISCARD? I really don't understand any of this in depth, so I'm very thankful for any direction/guidance you can provide. Thank you so much, Nicholas By the way, I explored wiki.ubuntu.com but couldn't find info on SSDs I was looking for. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
That said, if you can find specific things you are having problems with and make specific suggestions about how to solve the problems that are generally their direction, you've got a chance of being heard. Go back to what it was has no chance at all.https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss Scott, I appreciate your directness and honesty. For me, I think I'll move away from Ubuntu entirely until things get sorted out. I hope it won't be terribly long, though I note that it took several years to get the already-existing Gnome 2 fully usable. Maybe this will be different. In truth, if they can make Unity as good as Gnome 2 was (or better), and not terribly inconvenient or time-consuming to learn, I won't really care that it's not what I used to use. I'm just extremely frustrated with not having functionality that I've previously relied upon. (Dale, I sympathize with you strongly on this, as do many others.) If anyone can recommend a good, full-featured distribution that fills the same basic niche as Ubuntu, for use in the meantime, I'd be happy to hear your suggestions (as might others). (I might go with an RPM distro, since my Canon printer seems to hate DEB systems.) If I might recommend one final thing...can the essence of this discussion be somehow posted in an easy-to-find place on Ubuntu's various web pages and forums? It would be helpful to have an official notice that this is how it is, and it's not going back to how it was. It would save a lot of people (like me) a lot of trouble in trying to present ideas about what's unsatisfactory and needs changing, seeing as the direction of development apparently finds such input (concerning the GUI) unimportant at this time. As a policy, I find this quite unfortunate, but if that's just how it is, a simple warning would be nice. Thanks. --Dane -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:54:55 -0700 Dane Mutters dmutt...@gmail.com wrote: If I might recommend one final thing...can the essence of this discussion be somehow posted in an easy-to-find place on Ubuntu's various web pages and forums? It would be helpful to have an official notice that this is how it is, and it's not going back to how it was. It would save a lot of people (like me) a lot of trouble in trying to present ideas about what's unsatisfactory and needs changing, seeing as the direction of development apparently finds such input (concerning the GUI) unimportant at this time. As a policy, I find this quite unfortunate, but if that's just how it is, a simple warning would be nice. I think you are expanding and assuming results, decisions, and consequences over what has been said on this thread. 1. I am pretty sure Unity development will look at, and hear, on any well-explained, decent complaint. 2. I am sorry, but Gnome 3 sucks, and Unity sucks more is *not* what I am referring to above. 3. I do not remember anyone involved on Unity development stating that s/he finds such input (concerning the GUI) unimportant at this time. 4. I see no official notice of this is how it is(...) What we had was a rant followed by another rant followed by... I do not know, I stopped in the middle of the second rant. ScootK was very right when referring to the delete option. A lot of people left KDE when KDE4 was put out. A lot returned, others went elsewhere. A lot of people will leave Gnome3, or replace by whatever interface is changing the paradigm. It happens, people (in general) do not like change. But if I do not like something, and I want to _help_ change it, I need to put out a very clear statement of what I think is wrong *AND* why I think it is wrong. I have not seen this here. Cheers, ..C.. signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:39:51AM -0700, Dane Mutters wrote: desktop-centric version in the foreseeable future? Has there been any discussion of it? Finally, would a petition with, say, 100,000 signatures (or whatever large number seems appropriate), delivered to Mark Shuttleworth, be enough to get some say in this? Well, you could tell Mark that I'm one of the Directors of the National Space Society and often consult with NewSpace companies... I was considering Ubuntu for use in a NewSpace application but I'm now getting very antsy about the idea. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 02:01:22PM -0500, C de-Avillez wrote: A lot of people left KDE when KDE4 was put out. A lot returned, others went elsewhere. A lot of people will leave Gnome3, or replace by whatever interface is changing the paradigm. It happens, people (in general) do not like change. But if I do not like something, and I want to _help_ change it, I need to put out a very clear statement of what I think is wrong *AND* why I think it is wrong. That is not really the nature of the discussion. Ubuntu is a product. Real people use it in business and often in mission critical applications. If Ubuntu wishes to gain market share, then it must meet customer needs and not cause undue havoc with the operations of companies all over the world. That is what has been quite clearly stated, not as a rant and in a measured and professional tone, by professionals who have advocated the use of your product. You need to be nice to the people who do that. It is not my job to help you build your product. My job is to develop my own products using your (or another if necessary) platform that is suitable to purpose. I have not seen this here. You are looking for a primarily technical discussion. This has been primarily a business operations discussion. That is something I am sure Mark Shuttleworth should understand and appreciate. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
Le 11/04/2012 21:21, Dale Amon a écrit : If Ubuntu wishes to gain market share, then it must meet customer needs and not cause undue havoc with the operations of companies all over the world. Well, that's why Ubuntu has LTS versions and extended support to 5 years for this one, so people who need stability can plan migration on a 5 years period, you still have to deal with changes but that's true for most OSes. You also assume that - what you used before was meet(ing) customer needs better than Unity, it might be true for you or your customer, it doesn't mean your case is the most common one in the world - companies care much about the desktop chrome...often they don't, they care about the services and softwares they run, performances, stability - that choise is taken away from you, it's not, Unity got added, gnome-shell got added, still gnome-panel (gnome classic) is still available are xubuntu, kubuntu, etc. Nothing also stop you to run lucid for another year if you are happy with it, it's still supported, and maybe revisit options then... -- Sebastien Bacher -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 09:33:54PM +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote: You also assume that - what you used before was meet(ing) customer needs better than Unity, it might be true for you or your customer, it doesn't mean your case is the most common one in the world Just curious, what is the customer base you are working with? I do systems for investor conferences (for a large NY bank); various moderate sized accountancy firms (DC area) and a number of aerospace companies (New Space market segment, ie private space). I also often work side by side with techs from the big broadcast networks and guys who have worked on Wall Street. (It's nice work while the contracts are running... I'd do nicely if those gigs were more regular.) The folks I deal with have racks of gear in colo's in Manhattan. Also, I've been around the patch a bit and know a lot of folks and what their requirements are... hint: my first program was in Fortran on a 360/67 at Carnegie Mellon. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
Dale Amon a...@vnl.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 02:01:22PM -0500, C de-Avillez wrote: A lot of people left KDE when KDE4 was put out. A lot returned, others went elsewhere. A lot of people will leave Gnome3, or replace by whatever interface is changing the paradigm. It happens, people (in general) do not like change. But if I do not like something, and I want to _help_ change it, I need to put out a very clear statement of what I think is wrong *AND* why I think it is wrong. That is not really the nature of the discussion. Ubuntu is a product. Real people use it in business and often in mission critical applications. If Ubuntu wishes to gain market share, then it must meet customer needs and not cause undue havoc with the operations of companies all over the world. That is what has been quite clearly stated, not as a rant and in a measured and professional tone, by professionals who have advocated the use of your product. You need to be nice to the people who do that. It is not my job to help you build your product. My job is to develop my own products using your (or another if necessary) platform that is suitable to purpose. I have not seen this here. You are looking for a primarily technical discussion. This has been primarily a business operations discussion. That is something I am sure Mark Shuttleworth should understand and appreciate. There is a significant difference between Ubuntu, the FOSS Linux distribution, and Canonical, the corporation. If you want to have a business discussion, it should be with someone with an @canonical.com or some thirdy party business/ consultant. In the context of a Linux distribution being more technically focused is quite appropriate and expected. Unless you're writing a check to someone, you aren't a customer. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
Dale, please note that this is the ubuntu-devel-discuss list. You are not talking to Canonical. You're not even talking to the main developer list ubuntu-devel. This is an open-to-anyone list and I don't even know how many developers pay attention to it. They certainly pay less attention to a thread with a title like this one. This is a place where people, mostly volunteers, typically try to get started in making technical contributions to Ubuntu, which is why people keep trying to steer the conversation back to concrete suggestions, bug reports, etc. That's how we get stuff done here. If you want to talk business, this is not the right place, nor is it the right place to get someone else to talk business on your behalf. To talk business, I'd suggest either giving Canonical a call, or looking at the huge variety of support options (from Canonical and from many many others) at http://www.ubuntu.com/support If you're not interested in a business relationship (which might well involve money), perhaps you could take it up with the Technical Board, or the Community Council. Or really get involved, by coming to the Ubuntu Developer Summit, or digging in to the aspect of Ubuntu where you could have the best leverage. But this is not the place to address the concerns you have, at least in the way you're trying to frame them. Neal McBurnett http://neal.mcburnett.org/ On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 09:04:47PM +0100, Dale Amon wrote: On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 09:33:54PM +0200, Sebastien Bacher wrote: You also assume that - what you used before was meet(ing) customer needs better than Unity, it might be true for you or your customer, it doesn't mean your case is the most common one in the world Just curious, what is the customer base you are working with? I do systems for investor conferences (for a large NY bank); various moderate sized accountancy firms (DC area) and a number of aerospace companies (New Space market segment, ie private space). I also often work side by side with techs from the big broadcast networks and guys who have worked on Wall Street. (It's nice work while the contracts are running... I'd do nicely if those gigs were more regular.) The folks I deal with have racks of gear in colo's in Manhattan. Also, I've been around the patch a bit and know a lot of folks and what their requirements are... hint: my first program was in Fortran on a 360/67 at Carnegie Mellon. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
RE: SSD with ubuntu -- Developer guidance please
I am interested in getting feedback on this from actual ubuntu developers about what they recommend.. Hopefully my 3 questions can be succinctly answered without much trouble? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:56:36 -0400 From: mgol...@mitchgolden.com To: niabb...@live.com Subject: Re: SSD with ubuntu -- Developer guidance please I am sure you will get some people telling you not to send this sort of message to the developers list, as there is a separate users list for such discussions. I have a System 76 laptop with an Intel SSD drive, and you can see exactly what I do to set it up here: http://mitchgolden.com/computers/kubuntu-11.10.txt I did choose to use the discard option and the noatime option as well. The latter is to reduce the number of writes to the SSD and presumably improve its life. I didn't test it without discard to see if performance improved. Good luck. - Mitch On Wed, 11 Apr 2012, Nicholas Abbott wrote: Hi everyone. My name is Nicholas. I have a new computer that has an Intel SSD. I have some questions about using Ubuntu with an SSD that I hope ubuntu developers can answer for me. I've researched online but do not know how best to proceed as there seems to be differing advice. I see it mentioned online that I should mount with DISCARD. But an article from OpenSUSE says DISCARD is not good to use. http://opensuse.14.n6.nabble.com/SSD-detection-when-creating-first-time-fstab-td3313048.html Here are my questions 1.) are there any issues I should be aware of if using ubuntu on an SSD? Is ubuntu primarily intended to be used on HDD and not recommended for SSD? 2.) do you recommend TRIM be used for SSD with ubuntu? 3.) If you do recommend TRIM be used, how should TRIM be setup? Automatic wiping, or manual wiping? FITRIM, FSTRIM, or DISCARD? I really don't understand any of this in depth, so I'm very thankful for any direction/guidance you can provide. Thank you so much, Nicholas By the way, I explored wiki.ubuntu.com but couldn't find info on SSDs I was looking for. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: SSD with ubuntu -- Developer guidance please
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/11/2012 10:19 AM, Nicholas Abbott wrote: I have a new computer that has an Intel SSD. I have some questions about using Ubuntu with an SSD that I hope ubuntu developers can answer for me. I've researched online but do not know how best to proceed as there seems to be differing advice. I see it mentioned online that I should mount with DISCARD. But an article from OpenSUSE says DISCARD is not good to use. http://opensuse.14.n6.nabble.com/SSD-detection-when-creating-first-time-fstab-td3313048.html Here are my questions 1.) are there any issues I should be aware of if using ubuntu on an SSD? Is ubuntu primarily intended to be used on HDD and not recommended for SSD? 2.) do you recommend TRIM be used for SSD with ubuntu? 3.) If you do recommend TRIM be used, how should TRIM be setup? Automatic wiping, or manual wiping? FITRIM, FSTRIM, or DISCARD? I have had an SSD for about two years now and have never bothered enabling the discard mount option. I left some of the drive unpartitioned so that some blocks would never be written to and thus, the drive should never run out of erase blocks. About 6 months ago I did a benchmark and noticed that it wasn't quite as fast as it was when it was new ( though still plenty fast ), so I migrated my data off and reset the drive with an hdparm security erase, then moved my data back. This restored performance to tip top. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPhgikAAoJEJrBOlT6nu75ue4IAJLdQ/ClkhMnkQ4vIgvQxGYX 3GTJcirOBowmw6Xhot7oTkttirkqPcdUHEmnNdfSrDWvwGtG045zkKDtswBr+cuG 4RXNfoUBSxressswEKmLTROq/GysG/i1Jn92RHELWxq7p9SKac0Q+Iv98yZ+28Rp P3Ql5muBYWMB4OK4K1bvzwg8QMuggkl46uh+hXxA1GwvoYF6AVkx1L0olDzii1qc obv4+fs8D7pnBlR+mZLBrssFP7ZswyMcNeJzMGRrKBhB1xfO6GMuhUiY5XJ5qpYv UgEY2vBw5gAe041rIOJcsfjEtbsyqzif38xxhoHXHmS56y+0yxwQs34BtaYj5cc= =vcuD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [rjo...@redhat.com: Re: Suggestions on building VM disks from scratch]
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 11:44:22PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 10:13:26PM +0100, Dale Amon wrote: Here's another nasty bug and some pointers from the developers to how to fix it. Thanks. I've requested a sync of febootstrap from unstable to fix this. Colin: As of the -23 kernel the problems are still there. Do you know if that update happened or not? Here's some output from just tonight. I did a dselect just this afternoon: root@kdev:/vmpool1# guestfish Welcome to guestfish, the libguestfs filesystem interactive shell for editing virtual machine filesystems. Type: 'help' for help on commands 'man' to read the manual 'quit' to quit the shell fs sparse newdisk 30G fs run warning: Unable to get device geometry for /var/tmp/guestfs.wcyQC2/root febootstrap-supermin-helper: ext2: parent directory not found: /lib: File not found by ext2_lookup libguestfs: error: external command failed, see earlier error messages fs I've included rjones from the guestfish team just in case I got something wrong or in case he has useful suggestions for you. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
What we had was a rant followed by another rant followed by... I do not know, I stopped in the middle of the second rant. ScootK was very right when referring to the delete option. ... But if I do not like something, and I want to _help_ change it, I need to put out a very clear statement of what I think is wrong *AND* why I think it is wrong. C., Judging by your statements, above, it's quite clear that you haven't read most of this thread, and thereby have no real idea as to what the tenor of (most of) this discussion has been. It's therefore counterproductive for you to make disparaging claims about the conduct of others, whose conduct you apparently haven't actually taken any notice of. Please read the previous posts before assuming you have anything worthwhile to say about them. Everyone else, I'm aware that this is the -discuss list, and in point of fact, I subscribed (and occasionally participated on) the -devel list for years until a faction of the developers decided (with some good reason) that they didn't want non-developers on that list, and restricted all emails from those without special permission. Even then, I occasionally made suggestions and (what I thought were) intelligent comments, only to be faced with a process of waiting for my every email to be moderated, then being summarily told that my input wasn't important to anyone there (in many cases). So, while, yes, this isn't the list that most devs give a hoot about, and, in fact, seem to regard more as dev-null than dev-discuss, there simply isn't a better place to voice such concerns, and I'm pretty sure that it's by design. (To be fair, some people had been obnoxious on the old -devel list, so some of this behavior is understandable, if not justified.) As for the title of the thread, and whether this discussion should, instead, be with canonical: I asked both of those things, already (re-read my emails if you don't believe me), and got either no response, or (implicit) confirmation that this was as good a place as any. If you had something to say back then, why didn't you say it? Scott's replies were informative, and I thought I responded sensibly to them; did I misunderstand? (Those whose previous comments fit into the description of behaviors in this message are encouraged to keep their mouths shut, for once.) I'm sorry that this email has a much more angry tone than usual (for me, anyway), but asinine double-speak and baseless accusations (see the first paragraph) really bother me, and I know it's not just a personal quirk that they do; one would be hard-pressed to find anyone who isn't at least a little bothered by such behavior. For what it's worth, I came into this discussion hoping to outline specific problems in the GUI design process and come to useful conclusions about how to fix it. It would seem that, while many of the people here are, indeed, worth talking to, there are enough who are certainly not, that such an effort is basically wasted. I'm sorry that this list is insufficiently tolerant/intelligent/wise to value what would, in other circles, be worthwhile conversation. Regretfully, --Dane -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 08:44:18 PM Dane Mutters wrote: For what it's worth, I came into this discussion hoping to outline specific problems in the GUI design process and come to useful conclusions about how to fix it. It would seem that, while many of the people here are, indeed, worth talking to, there are enough who are certainly not, that such an effort is basically wasted. I'm sorry that this list is insufficiently tolerant/intelligent/wise to value what would, in other circles, be worthwhile conversation. Part of the problem you're having in this discussion is that Ubuntu developers don't develop Unity. It's a separate project within Canonical that operates much like any upstream does. The distribution developers have some influence and do, in some cases, contribute to it, but it's not primarily their work. If you're trying to reach the driving minds behind Unity, this isn't the right place. There is a mailing list, called unity-design or some similar title that might be better. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: How to install Precise without getting screwed?
Part of the problem you're having in this discussion is that Ubuntu developers don't develop Unity. It's a separate project within Canonical that operates much like any upstream does. The distribution developers have some influence and do, in some cases, contribute to it, but it's not primarily their work. If you're trying to reach the driving minds behind Unity, this isn't the right place. There is a mailing list, called unity-design or some similar title that might be better. Scott K That's very good to know; thanks, Scott. It's also heartening to hear that it's not the Ubuntu devs (for whom I generally have a lot of respect) who are pushing this madness forward, but people who are working directly for Canonical--rather than simply being directed by canonical. I apologize to any developers toward whom I've been unjustly been harsh. My previous criticisms of certain denizens of this list stand, but at least now it's clear that most of the Unity culprits are elsewhere. Thanks for the clarification. --Dane -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
