Re: artwork
> > Third, open criticism of the appearance of the Ubuntu development > branch is most certainly welcome. However, please consider that these > splash screens have been in the present form for several months now. > To provide this sort of feedback in an inflammatory manner days before > the release is hardly constructive. This feedback might have been > quite useful around UserInterfaceFreeze, over a month ago: > * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule > Please keep this schedule in mind for our next release: > * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule I didn't notice the artwork problem myself until after that date, as I'm not normally one to jump straight on the development version. Having only one box and not enough beef to run a VM kinda makes me beta shy. However, I would hope that a new version of the splash screen could get pushed out as an update later. Normally I wouldn't make a fuss over the artwork, as it's inherently subjective. But in this case I'd actually consider it a bug. I'm guessing here, being new and all, but I figure that filing a bug report on the splash screen in question would be the most productive step to take here at this point. I'd file it myself but launchpad is about to go down for awhile for maintenance. I wouldn't consider it critical enough to be a release showstopper but I do believe it needs some attention once the release buzz dies down. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: artwork
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 6:18 PM, coz DS wrote: > Hey guys, > I had been on the art team for a number of years. > I am really surprised that some of the artwork, ie,,,boot splash and > splash screen with progress bar , were able to be considered let alone > actually used. > I have to tell you that that the choices for these images and colours > are completely not ubuntu in any way and certainly the worst choice. > When booting into karmic, the white ubuntu symbol should have had the > colours gradually fill it in as a progress bar...and the following boot > splash the ubuntu logo certainly should have had color and the background > for that image most definitely should NOT have been used...it implies a > dark..albeit muddy,, theme is going to be default system theme. > I have seen none of the major distributions have any > inconsistencies...including ubuntu...with graphics during install..or > boot..as radical and inappropriate as karmic has. > Who ever has made these decisions is most likely a developer and there > are NO developers capable of making final choices for anything without > discussing the options with at least one "qualified" artist. > Creating and deciding on graphics , especially for a distribution as > globally used as Ubuntu, takes as much skill and time and mental > capabilities as it does to code "any" application...or DE..and any of the > developers who think otherwise should be kept as far away from decision > making about graphics permanently!!! > To mr shuttleworth,,, if you are making final decisions then you need to > pull yourself away from graphics altogether and let the art team back in as > official...if on the other hand you are relying on an "artist" at cononical > to make these final decisions ,, then please give them their walking papers. > coz I tried very hard to ignore this bait, but I am going to bite... First, before sending an email criticizing aesthetics, I would pass my own text through a spell checker and carefully examine the format of the composition. Second, it is a gross miscalculation to assume that all software developers are necessarily art-challenged. Many of our own Ubuntu core developers are quite accomplished photographers, musicians, dancers, writers, and artists. Third, open criticism of the appearance of the Ubuntu development branch is most certainly welcome. However, please consider that these splash screens have been in the present form for several months now. To provide this sort of feedback in an inflammatory manner days before the release is hardly constructive. This feedback might have been quite useful around UserInterfaceFreeze, over a month ago: * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule Please keep this schedule in mind for our next release: * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule Finally, to call for someone's job over artwork that does not suit a particular taste is rather insulting. I am a developer on the Ubuntu Server Team for Canonical, somewhat distanced from our artwork and user interface teams. However, I do know that these are brilliant people, who are working hard to make Ubuntu a beautiful collection of software. Your friendly Ubuntu developers are in fact real humans, with spouses, children, families. Heck, most even have feelings. We would do ourselves a service to remember this, before lobbing grenades over the wall. :-Dustin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Compiz zoom scary, enabled by default in Karmic RC
I'm assuming you meant this to go to the list On Sun, 25 Oct 2009, Jonathon Fernyhough wrote: > 2009/10/25 Jordan Mantha : > > On Sun, 25 Oct 2009, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: > > > > >> I partly agree that it could be a usability issue (I was seriously > >> confused first time I hit this accidentally). Maybe some tip while > >> zooming (like 'use Windows key and and mouse scroll to zoom out' or > >> whatever) could help, because it is actually good feature when used > >> knowingly. > > > > I've accidentally hit this zoom thing many many more times than I ever > > accidentally hit the dreaded Ctrl-Alt-Backspace. I've never figured out a > > good > > way to get out of it other than to reboot my computer so the effect was > > about > > the same. I'd be all for some sort of "get me out of here" button when it's > > first activated. > > > > Every modern web browser zooms when you hold Ctrl and use the scroll > wheel (and indeed navigates back/forward with Shift). Should this mean > we put a warning message on Firefox/Epiphany/Midori too? Well, to be honest, the problem I had was that I never know what key combo I used to make it zoom. I don't have a scroll wheel (I only use the touchpad on my mouse) so I'm still not sure how I get it to zoom. I didn't know that web browsers zoomed that way either, having not used a scroll wheel in a couple years. I'll fully admit my problem was one of ignorance, but I'm guessing I'm only one among many of the ignorant masses. > I do agree, though, that this behaviour should be enabled through some > accessibility setting. Something would be useful, I don't particularly have an opinion on what exactly. Either an easy way to disable the whole thing or a popup that tells you how to zoom out. -Jordan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 23:42, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> As a computer science student, I know about Internet security. > > As a mechanical engineering student, I don't know anything about > internet security. You don't want to give me powerful tools and let me > loose on the wild wild web. Actually, I kind of want to let you loose and see what happens. If you turn out to cause trouble, an abuse mail to your provider is two clicks away. You may also have noticed that all the things I listed as important for security can be checked for by the system. I would like to see a list of problem areas that can't be checked for sanity like that. And then find solutions for that, obviously. -- Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
> As a computer science student, I know about Internet security. As a mechanical engineering student, I don't know anything about internet security. You don't want to give me powerful tools and let me loose on the wild wild web. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Once upon a time, Linux was very hard to use on the desktop. If you wanted to do anything, you had to read manuals and get flamed on mailinglists. In recent years this has all been turned around. There were some detractors that would argue that Linux would become as insecure as Windows because any fool could now use it, but that didn't quite happen. I don't see why this would be different for server administration. An Apache server is very easy to set up, even now. Just install apache and you're done. Still, we're not getting complaints that Ubuntu blew up the Internet. Regardless of all these arguments, wouldn't it be great if Ubuntu made it easier for system administrators? A tool that makes it difficult to make mistakes would be a win for any user, whether they are a skilled system administrator or not. A system administrator can still make mistakes, and would benefit from a system that complains when this happens. As a computer science student, I know about Internet security. You need a firewall, updated software, strong passwords, a secure connection, limited permissions. Yet, I would have a hard time setting up a mail server. That should not be hard to do for me. I should just be able to install a package, run a nice configuration tool from the administration menu, make sure it is sane (and be told if it isn't), and fire it up. It's not that complicated. Yet, whenever I have to do something that involves server software, suddenly it's like I travel back 10 years in time, with endless console sessions, reading man pages, searching the Internet, and a lot of trial and error. -- Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
> That tool is generally called a server. That Mac OS X tool is called Samba, > with a nice interface to configure it. I see no reason why they should be > forced to run Mac OS X to do this. > I think that Chan was giving an example. > People should have the choice to do what they want, even if you disagree > with it. Advocating for licenses to run a server is preposterous, and goes > completely against the Ubuntu philosophy in general [1], which is not > limited to just Ubuntu Desktop. So I suppose that lawyers should not be licensed? Doctors? Real estate agents? Everyone should have a choice to do whatever they want, complete anarchy? > Who are you to control what a mom 'n pop > small business does or does not do? An unwitting customer who may have an account with them. Or might receive spam from their compromised box. > Should they be forced to hire a full > time IT staff to run oldtownrootbeer.com because you don't think they should > have access to a powerful yet easy to use system, because they might do bad > things? > Yes, they should have a competent IT professional on call. Not because they might do bad things, but because they may do irresponsible things. > In all of this you have also forgotten that Ubuntu is used worldwide, > including places without much IT infrastructure, let alone IT training in > order to be an uber sysadmin. > What has this strawman have to do with the argument that servers should be run by competent IT professionals? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
> Mom and pop small businesses do not need a server. They just need a > file/print sharing tool like what you have on Mac OS X, an account with a > local isp and a router from that isp. These shops think that with a server they can access their work from home or on the road, run a website, and other goodies. The have all heard of the intercords and how much money they can make on it. > There are plenty of small enterprises > dotted around Hong Kong that have ZERO it personnel and the last thing they > need is to try to run a server themselves. It is impossible to make the > server foolproof for such outfits. > That is exactly my point. > If they need a Windows server or a Linux server, they need IT personnel > and they need real system administrators and not random idiots who know how > to point and click. > Thank you! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Compiz zoom scary, enabled by default in Karmic RC
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: > Interesting is that you hit this only in Karmic, it was enabled > already in Jaunty. > > I partly agree that it could be a usability issue (I was seriously > confused first time I hit this accidentally). Maybe some tip while > zooming (like 'use Windows key and and mouse scroll to zoom out' or > whatever) could help, because it is actually good feature when used > knowingly. I've accidentally hit this zoom thing many many more times than I ever accidentally hit the dreaded Ctrl-Alt-Backspace. I've never figured out a good way to get out of it other than to reboot my computer so the effect was about the same. I'd be all for some sort of "get me out of here" button when it's first activated. -Jordan > 2009/10/25 Joe Zimmerman : > > Hi all, > > > > (First time posting to this list, so I apologize if this isn't the right > > place for such comments.) > > > > I just recently installed Karmic RC, and happened to inadvertently press > > Super+Button2 (this is not as crazy as it seems, since Button2 on my laptop > > is right below the space bar). This made compiz decide to zoom in extremely, > > and I couldn't figure out how to zoom back out again; eventually I just gave > > up and "logged out" (i.e., restarted X); it was only later, after some > > googling, that I discovered Super+mousewheel. > > > > While this was only a minor annoyance for me, I could easily see a newbie > > doing the same thing and being extremely put-off by the result. Would it be > > possible to disable this particular shortcut by default? (Perhaps instead, a > > whole class of such shortcuts could be activated as an option under > > Appearance or some such.) > > > > -Joe > > > > > > -- > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > > > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Compiz zoom scary, enabled by default in Karmic RC
Interesting is that you hit this only in Karmic, it was enabled already in Jaunty. I partly agree that it could be a usability issue (I was seriously confused first time I hit this accidentally). Maybe some tip while zooming (like 'use Windows key and and mouse scroll to zoom out' or whatever) could help, because it is actually good feature when used knowingly. Cheers, Peter. 2009/10/25 Joe Zimmerman : > Hi all, > > (First time posting to this list, so I apologize if this isn't the right > place for such comments.) > > I just recently installed Karmic RC, and happened to inadvertently press > Super+Button2 (this is not as crazy as it seems, since Button2 on my laptop > is right below the space bar). This made compiz decide to zoom in extremely, > and I couldn't figure out how to zoom back out again; eventually I just gave > up and "logged out" (i.e., restarted X); it was only later, after some > googling, that I discovered Super+mousewheel. > > While this was only a minor annoyance for me, I could easily see a newbie > doing the same thing and being extremely put-off by the result. Would it be > possible to disable this particular shortcut by default? (Perhaps instead, a > whole class of such shortcuts could be activated as an option under > Appearance or some such.) > > -Joe > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
You are free to create such a GUI tool, or hire someone to create it, and (if it has sufficient quality and is secure) get it into Ubuntu. 2009/10/25 Steven Susbauer : > Should they be forced to hire a full time IT staff to run oldtownrootbeer.com Why would someone get a server just to host a website (with the associated expenses in equipment, power and bandwith)? Aren't there web hosting companies in your world? Cheers, -- Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) Free Software Developer 363DEAE3 -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 25, 2009, at 11:10 AM, Chan Chung Hang Christopher wrote: > Dotan Cohen wrote: >>> For your information, Linux savvy companies tend to... >>> >> >> Linux-savvy companies are not the issue here. GUI server tools will >> attract mom 'n pop small businesses as well. >> >> > > > Mom and pop small businesses do not need a server. They just need a > file/print sharing tool like what you have on Mac OS X, an account > with > a local isp and a router from that isp. There are plenty of small > enterprises dotted around Hong Kong that have ZERO it personnel and > the > last thing they need is to try to run a server themselves. It is > impossible to make the server foolproof for such outfits. That tool is generally called a server. That Mac OS X tool is called Samba, with a nice interface to configure it. I see no reason why they should be forced to run Mac OS X to do this. People should have the choice to do what they want, even if you disagree with it. Advocating for licenses to run a server is preposterous, and goes completely against the Ubuntu philosophy in general [1], which is not limited to just Ubuntu Desktop. Who are you to control what a mom 'n pop small business does or does not do? Should they be forced to hire a full time IT staff to run oldtownrootbeer.com because you don't think they should have access to a powerful yet easy to use system, because they might do bad things? In all of this you have also forgotten that Ubuntu is used worldwide, including places without much IT infrastructure, let alone IT training in order to be an uber sysadmin. [1]: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Dotan Cohen wrote: >> For your information, Linux savvy companies tend to... >> > > Linux-savvy companies are not the issue here. GUI server tools will > attract mom 'n pop small businesses as well. > > Mom and pop small businesses do not need a server. They just need a file/print sharing tool like what you have on Mac OS X, an account with a local isp and a router from that isp. There are plenty of small enterprises dotted around Hong Kong that have ZERO it personnel and the last thing they need is to try to run a server themselves. It is impossible to make the server foolproof for such outfits. If they need a Windows server or a Linux server, they need IT personnel and they need real system administrators and not random idiots who know how to point and click. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
> For your information, Linux savvy companies tend to... Linux-savvy companies are not the issue here. GUI server tools will attract mom 'n pop small businesses as well. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Caroline Ford wrote: > > On 25 Oct 2009, at 15:09, Dotan Cohen wrote: > >>> Or puts them out of a job? >>> >> >> Likely we are talking about a small business here, so the decision >> maker might be the top of the organization's food chain. But it might >> get him sued, and thus out of a business. If it is a sole >> proprietorship, it might put him out of a house too. >> > I meant the sysadmins complaining about making system administration > easier, and possibly "deskilled". > > If you feed yourself through Linux system administration you have an > interest in it being inaccessible. Hahhaha. I am hired for my skills and knowledge, not for creating a system that nobody knows how to work. You have heard of outsourcing right? Well, they are welcome to replace me with any company since that leaves them with far more support than they would get if I get run over by a bus. I wonder why they do not do that though. BTW, I have Turk friend who has been using Linux and also been writing an inhouse system for the company he works for. Some young chap joined the senior management with his head full of theories and got the entire first generation of managers that built the company to leave whether by firing or harassing them. He is also gunning for my Turk friend. Ever since this chap got in, the IT budget has ballooned with the introduction of Microsoft software (for which you can pick any random person of the street to administer) it appears that soon he will be able to tell my friend to leave with an outsourcing arrangement. The implementators of Microsoft Dynamics took one look at my friend's inhouse system and asked whether he was selling it. Oh, btw, that uber expensive Microsoft Dynamics system crashes on a regular basis whereas the inhouse system had no problems at all. I have recently been given an extra hand. Do you know what I will be doing with him. Once the current list of big jobs are done and things have settled down, I will doing skills transfer because that is what I love doing as I used to be a Linux instructor at an adult computer training centre. If the school can find some random person better than me at my job, they can very well hire him or her. When I joined the school, the previous predecessor had already been gone for a month. I had to get in there and work out all the rubbish that was setup by him and his predecessors and get things ship shape. BTW, the school is a Microsoft shop. I introduced Linux and OpenSolaris to get things ship shape. You can guess what kind of system administrators they previously had. I'd call them paper MCSEs (of which I was one, I almost got my MCSE (later NT 4.0 track) certificate a month after justing attending a two week crash course for MCSE certification by successfully passing 4 required exams and an elective soon after and I had never had an IT job prior to that crash course) but hey, I would have been just like them if I had actually got a Windows related job and not a string of Linux related jobs for the next decade or so. For your information, Linux savvy companies tend to have IT heads who know their stuff. You cannot make the systems inaccessible to them. You also do not have to worry about them looking for and hiring some random idiot off the street. As for companies like the ones my Turk friend works for, they are more than welcome to put us out of a job and pay through the nose for Microsoft rubbish. If they do not appreciate just how much we are saving them and how much productivity we give them, we do not want to work for them. But you bet that there is no way I am going to support the stupid idea of empowering those who are not qualified. Why do we have driver's/plumber's/electrician's permits/licenses? They should likewise be system administrator's permits/licenses. (Now I am really showing a vested interest in making system administration inaccessible - to those who should not be system administrators in the first place) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
>> Someone may feed himself by selling used books. He has no interest in >> learning sister admiration whatever that may be. He just wants that >> new Unbuto thing that will let his customers see what books he has. >> And of course he will make sure that he can access the customer's data >> (name, phone number, email address, credit card info) from a little >> hidden link in the corner that nobody would ever notice. > > This could be accomplished just as easily on any webhost and is certainly > not going to be triggered by a system administration utility, though by this > logical thread Ubuntu had better get on with removing Quanta and anything > that makes a complex and possibly dangerous process easier. > This is true. I should have used malware and spam server as the example. > Not including these things is of course not going to hurt anything of > course. Some people will use a howto to set it up, some people will manage > to get it working good enough. People that have no interest in either will > use another distribution which does include them. Of the three I would > rather they use the other distro; they're probably safer, but it doesn't do > much for Ubuntu advocacy. > I think that Ubuntu doesn't need to give people another gun to shoot themselves in the foot. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 25, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> If you feed yourself through Linux system administration you have an >> interest in it being inaccessible. >> > > Someone may feed himself by selling used books. He has no interest in > learning sister admiration whatever that may be. He just wants that > new Unbuto thing that will let his customers see what books he has. > And of course he will make sure that he can access the customer's data > (name, phone number, email address, credit card info) from a little > hidden link in the corner that nobody would ever notice. This could be accomplished just as easily on any webhost and is certainly not going to be triggered by a system administration utility, though by this logical thread Ubuntu had better get on with removing Quanta and anything that makes a complex and possibly dangerous process easier. Not including these things is of course not going to hurt anything of course. Some people will use a howto to set it up, some people will manage to get it working good enough. People that have no interest in either will use another distribution which does include them. Of the three I would rather they use the other distro; they're probably safer, but it doesn't do much for Ubuntu advocacy. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
>> Likely we are talking about a small business here, so the decision >> maker might be the top of the organization's food chain. But it might >> get him sued, and thus out of a business. If it is a sole >> proprietorship, it might put him out of a house too. >> > I meant the sysadmins complaining about making system administration easier, > and possibly "deskilled". > I see. > If you feed yourself through Linux system administration you have an > interest in it being inaccessible. > Someone may feed himself by selling used books. He has no interest in learning sister admiration whatever that may be. He just wants that new Unbuto thing that will let his customers see what books he has. And of course he will make sure that he can access the customer's data (name, phone number, email address, credit card info) from a little hidden link in the corner that nobody would ever notice. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On 25 Oct 2009, at 15:09, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> Or puts them out of a job? >> > > Likely we are talking about a small business here, so the decision > maker might be the top of the organization's food chain. But it might > get him sued, and thus out of a business. If it is a sole > proprietorship, it might put him out of a house too. > I meant the sysadmins complaining about making system administration easier, and possibly "deskilled". If you feed yourself through Linux system administration you have an interest in it being inaccessible. Caroline -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
> Or puts them out of a job? > Likely we are talking about a small business here, so the decision maker might be the top of the organization's food chain. But it might get him sued, and thus out of a business. If it is a sole proprietorship, it might put him out of a house too. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
> Which comes back to the 'blame Ubuntu' part again. If they mess up > following a howto, it is the howtos fault. If for any reason the 'make > it easy to do' tool messes up, it is that tool's fault. If you come up > with a piece of rubbish for a GUI, it is YOU who put that rootable, > botable box on the Net. You can bet on what real admins feel about any > distro that facilitates the work of criminals such as spammers and virus > writers. > It will be Ubuntu to blame when the line of though goes something like this: "Wow, this new Ubuntu thing can get us on the 'net for free. Lets try it." -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On 25 Oct 2009, at 13:03, Chan Chung Hang Christopher wrote: > Remco wrote: >> On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 10:22, Dotan Cohen >> wrote: >> The lack of tools will not prevent untrained users from doing things they don't know how to do, but having them can make them at least do it a little better. >>> There is no lack of tools for administrating a server. However, the >>> present tools demand a minimum understanding of networks, including >>> security. >>> >> >> No they don't. They require a howto. >> >> > Which comes back to the 'blame Ubuntu' part again. If they mess up > following a howto, it is the howtos fault. If for any reason the 'make > it easy to do' tool messes up, it is that tool's fault. If you come up > with a piece of rubbish for a GUI, it is YOU who put that rootable, > botable box on the Net. You can bet on what real admins feel about any > distro that facilitates the work of criminals such as spammers and > virus > writers. > Or puts them out of a job? Caroline -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
Remco wrote: > On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 10:22, Dotan Cohen wrote: > >>> The lack of tools will not prevent untrained users from doing things they >>> don't know how to do, but having them can make them at least do it a little >>> better. >>> >>> >> There is no lack of tools for administrating a server. However, the >> present tools demand a minimum understanding of networks, including >> security. >> > > No they don't. They require a howto. > > Which comes back to the 'blame Ubuntu' part again. If they mess up following a howto, it is the howtos fault. If for any reason the 'make it easy to do' tool messes up, it is that tool's fault. If you come up with a piece of rubbish for a GUI, it is YOU who put that rootable, botable box on the Net. You can bet on what real admins feel about any distro that facilitates the work of criminals such as spammers and virus writers. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 10:22, Dotan Cohen wrote: >> The lack of tools will not prevent untrained users from doing things they >> don't know how to do, but having them can make them at least do it a little >> better. >> > > There is no lack of tools for administrating a server. However, the > present tools demand a minimum understanding of networks, including > security. No they don't. They require a howto. -- Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: artwork
On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 19:33 -0400, Martin Owens wrote: > Lets not call for people to be fired just yet, I'm sure things can be > improved with some community involvement and a little unmooding of the > style. There was a call for concepts from the designers at Canonical to the artwork team. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot A bit later a concept/demo from them: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Boot There has been much criticism, but also cheering on the artwork list and wiki. There simply are no shared goals, no common vision, so most comments come down to a "I like it" or "I don't like it". > Is there an art team? much like the technical board? Yes, there is an art team, but no, not like the technical board. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork I think any further discussion should happen on the art list, not here, if at all. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
> The lack of tools will not prevent untrained users from doing things they > don't know how to do, but having them can make them at least do it a little > better. > There is no lack of tools for administrating a server. However, the present tools demand a minimum understanding of networks, including security. Developing tools which do not demand any prerequisite knowledge will lead to unknowledgable people performing dangerous activities with their servers. They may be putting their data, or their customers' and associates' data at risk. How would you feel if you discovered that the mom 'n pop auto parts store that you order online from and delivers directly to your garage, was storing your email address in a publically-accessible page, indexed by google? Now, imagine that it is you credit card information in addition to your email address. Why wouldn't they do that, it makes it easier for the different workers to find the info, even from their cellphones while on the road, right? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
On Oct 25, 2009, at 2:12 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: And you thing that simple file sharing server based on SMB are comparable to Mustang GT? >>> >>> No. But I think that running a public HTTP server is. >> >> Any user can run a public HTTP server without knowing what the hell >> they are doing. They just follow a howto from >> the-perfect-server-setup.tk. Of course, that howto also recommends >> setting up a mail server, but inadvertently doesn't set a password >> for >> the SMTP server. >> > > Thank you for proving my point. > Or proving the point that easy to use GUI configuration tools can actually help make the situation better, for example suggesting the user set a password for their SMTP server. The lack of tools will not prevent untrained users from doing things they don't know how to do, but having them can make them at least do it a little better. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Ubuntu Domain Server
>>> And you thing that simple file sharing server based on SMB are >>> comparable to Mustang GT? >> >> No. But I think that running a public HTTP server is. > > Any user can run a public HTTP server without knowing what the hell > they are doing. They just follow a howto from > the-perfect-server-setup.tk. Of course, that howto also recommends > setting up a mail server, but inadvertently doesn't set a password for > the SMTP server. > Thank you for proving my point. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
