[ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
Hello, I'd like to start a discussion about the use of gobby for the UWN. I see that working with gobby has some advantages, though I see some problems, too. Personally, I'd prefer that the uwn stays on the wiki only, because * Some people can't access gobby at all due to port restriction of their internet account (myself I've been having this problem lately) * Porting the UWN to gobby means that people have to install the application and also to learn to use it. This complicates the participation and may be a barrier especially for new users (e.g. who just learned how to use a wiki). I think that keeping the process of UWN as simple as possible would be the better solution. * Kubuntu users have to install a lot of gnome-libraries if they want to contribute (this is not to start a flame about kde vs. gnome, personally I have installed gobby, but I know from others that they don't want to use it due to that reason). What do you think about it? Are there more advantages than the problems I listed and would you like to keep gobby? And if yes, do you have proposals to eliminate those problems? Regards, Mirjam -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Mirjam Wäckerlin wrote: * Kubuntu users have to install a lot of gnome-libraries if they want to contribute (this is not to start a flame about kde vs. gnome, personally I have installed gobby, but I know from others that they don't want to use it due to that reason). If you use aptitude instead of apt-get, then, if you don't like gobby, or decide that you won't be using it that often, then you can remove it, and aptitude will remove any orphaned dependencies as well, thus keeping your kubuntu install clean without gnome libraries. sudo aptitude install gobby sude aptitude remove gobby Aptitude won't remove any orphaned dependencies, if it was installed with apt-get, synaptic, or any other means other than aptitude. But, if installed with aptitude, it will. So, really, installing gobby shouldn't be all bad for kubuntu users. Cheers, - -- +--+ |Aaron Toponce _ Join the ASCII Ribbon Campaign | |OALUG President( ) http://www.asciiribbon.org | |http://www.aarontoponce.org X Against HTML e-mail| |http://www.oalug.com / \ Against proprietary attachments| +--+ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRdskxM55Ebf8BAiPAQp/kAgAlWSzJ++k1mQAK3C0lE17o05wWva9i1Mn h0DZiMXCCMZKQ0hreaYOVgGzu1aXJwMVcytV/R82fDB0JX689V6SD+nMvRplqCr9 kMfHfq8Rc7tvZ1XWYRill9iudwjdbQwhpLq1hc9yzJEq8nCmZbT53o5FZiEqRtZi hdr+KScjZfHK+4b6pmrq8MTPwhDOE4go7FjETV+9IMGQIAtqxuVxnMsE/P0cB4Tv gqA4rNU1phA7TD4sqmvXfPwx/weAHfylRipFbDMuF5e4G5/N3uQUFmaXX33o3CGF 8JmIU0AwN2jWqGSbZPI5bF7UvrxKfqqJR8U2HAxyFf8sgbM9IndRig== =TwLa -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
On di, 2007-02-20 at 09:41 -0700, Aaron Toponce wrote: If you use aptitude instead of apt-get apt-get has been thoing this correctly for a while now :) -- Dennis K. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote: On di, 2007-02-20 at 09:41 -0700, Aaron Toponce wrote: If you use aptitude instead of apt-get apt-get has been thoing this correctly for a while now :) apt-get isn't removing the orphaned dependencies, just installing them. 'sudo apt-get remove package_name' is removing just the package name itself, and none of the orphaned dependencies that it brought during install. Is there something I need to upgrade to see this happen with apt-get? I'm on edgy. Let me know. Thanks, - -- +--+ |Aaron Toponce _ Join the ASCII Ribbon Campaign | |OALUG President( ) http://www.asciiribbon.org | |http://www.aarontoponce.org X Against HTML e-mail| |http://www.oalug.com / \ Against proprietary attachments| +--+ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBRdsrCs55Ebf8BAiPAQoRQQf+M6VMBui6oCidVi/LxTLCKaERXFpJgWJD +kfWbv50eNJ3Y0rMMBm618jctiZ+tY46FaBlTJjygykFLetGPCnVzPH86mFHFs31 7Hj+eeJsIVbJ2kLt7r6n9Rx78KVxWpIB4Gx3wuNAboV+EEpEiL0iQPe3KgT0VVLO NXykoFWZ8kJq85LBqUD5IQEjlJn1/5u88/9BejUEWVfjuxff/ybK8XM7saQyZiUr UjcFsFoDeOnatLuEnK0M+SNrgbKb5sfbh8XsskRH56ZshbuGwIxh9hF/bTLNicnJ DZHMxG0B2JJNLaMDMNb2EpR635uywEDHxcKmfZ5LfUf5ZCx6ZUXgeA== =7Mxq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
On di, 2007-02-20 at 10:08 -0700, Aaron Toponce wrote: Is there something I need to upgrade to see this happen with apt-get? I'm on edgy. apt-get autoremove - after uninstalling eg gobby - will get rid of unneeded dependencies - eg libobby, libnet6 in the gobby case. -- Dennis K. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
On 2/20/07, Aaron Toponce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you use aptitude instead of apt-get, then, if you don't like gobby, or decide that you won't be using it that often, then you can remove it, and aptitude will remove any orphaned dependencies as well, thus keeping your kubuntu install clean without gnome libraries. sudo aptitude install gobby sude aptitude remove gobby Aptitude won't remove any orphaned dependencies, if it was installed with apt-get, synaptic, or any other means other than aptitude. But, if installed with aptitude, it will. So, really, installing gobby shouldn't be all bad for kubuntu users. As I mentioned above I myself have no problems to install gobby (I already did), but I heard from others that they don't like it. If someone only wants to submit one article and is not regularly involved in creating or translating the uwn, well isn't it a bit intricate that one has to install a program only to submit once? And if people would like to commit / translate the uwn regularly there's no sence in uninstalling, anyway. But, if you want to stick with gobby, at least there should be an additional possibility to submit articles, e.g. via email, and also a site where a copy of the actual version in gobby is accessible in order that translators can start translating early and for people who don't have access due to port restrictions. Regards, Mirjam -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
On 2/20/07, Aaron Toponce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you use aptitude instead of apt-get, then, if you don't like gobby, or decide that you won't be using it that often, then you can remove it, and aptitude will remove any orphaned dependencies as well, thus keeping your kubuntu install clean without gnome libraries. sudo aptitude install gobby sude aptitude remove gobby Aptitude won't remove any orphaned dependencies, if it was installed with apt-get, synaptic, or any other means other than aptitude. But, if installed with aptitude, it will. So, really, installing gobby shouldn't be all bad for kubuntu users. As I mentioned above I myself have no problems to install gobby (I already did), but I heard from others that they don't like it. If someone only wants to submit one article and is not regularly involved in creating or translating the uwn, well isn't it a bit intricate that one has to install a program and learn to use it only to submit once? And if people would like to commit / translate the uwn regularly there's no sence in uninstalling, anyway. But, if you want to stick with gobby, at least there should be an additional possibility to submit articles, e.g. via email, and also a site where a copy of the actual version in gobby is accessible in order that translators can start translating early and for people who don't have access due to port restrictions. The more restricted the access to the UWN is, the less people will get involved. Regards, Mirjam -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
On di, 2007-02-20 at 10:16 -0700, Aaron Toponce wrote: Ahh. Cool. I was unaware of autoremove. I'll have to look into it. That is odd, apt spams it: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo apt-get remove gobby ... The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: libcairomm-1.0-1 libgtkmm-2.4-1c2a gobby Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. -- Dennis K. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
On 2/20/07, Julius Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Am Dienstag, den 20.02.2007, 16:09 +0100 schrieb Mirjam Wäckerlin: What do you think about it? Are there more advantages than the problems I listed and would you like to keep gobby? And if yes, do you have proposals to eliminate those problems? There are several adavantages for gobby * You don't need a special syntax, like the moinmoin syntax in the wiki * More then one person a time can change the content * You don't need an account I don't deny the advantages of gobby (see above), but most of the people contributing already have an account on the wiki. If they want to do any other thing in addition to contributing to UWN they will learn the basics of wiki syntax, anyway. The rest of UWN is in the wiki, so it's only consequent to edit the UWN on the wiki. The wiki also gives a warning when someone else is already editing the page, so you would only have to wait some minutes untill you can edit it. If we stick with gobby, at least consider the propositions from my last mail, and in addition to this, leave more information on the concerned UWN page instead of just writing moved to gobby (the page editing policies is rather well hidden - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue30 where a user is asking for server and port for gobby). Regards, Mirjam -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
Salut ;-) On 2/20/07, Lionel Porcheron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Julius Bloch a écrit : Hi, [...] I tend to agree with Julius, gobby is realy easy and fun to use for colaborative edition (by collaborative, I mean at the same time). You do not need the chat lock (I am editing the page). I am one of the French translator, we tried wiki and gobby and we are happy gobby users for translation parties. I'm not saying gobby is not good, but rather: in this special case, the wiki would imho be better. If I understood well, nowadays, the articles are submited via the wiki and the final packaging is done on gobby. This looks like a good solution to me. The gobby phase was a bit long this time due to unavailablity from members of the team. We can not blame them for that. Submiting articles by posting on this maling list is another solution. This is a good idea, is there a person in charge of taking articles from this list to gobby? The wiki-pages of uwn as they are now don't give much information about how to submit articles. If we stick with gobby, the wiki definitely need some changes in order that more people can contribute. Concerning starting the translation before letter is published, regarding past experiences, it is not a good idea : UWN may change until it is published, so we (French translators) now wait the final publication. Well, we (German translators) always start earlier, because if we would start with the official release it would take too long to translate - it's faster to fix changes (which are mostly minor ones) than to wait. So, a page with a copy from the actual gobby version is a must. Regards, Mirjam -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] UWN - gobby or wiki?
Hi, On Tue, February 20, 2007 6:05 pm, Julius Bloch wrote: There are several adavantages for gobby I'm not directly involved in UWN, but it seems to me that these aren't real advantages, except for one. * You don't need a special syntax, like the moinmoin syntax in the wiki Not a real distinction between the two - I understand that the UWN is published in the wiki so you should use that syntax (in reality it's still possible for people who don't know the syntax to contribute in either medium because others can tidy up the formatting of their contribution afterwards). * More then one person a time can change the content That's the real advantage!! It would be cool to blend the functionality that gobby provides into the wiki software. * You don't need an account I would have thought that the number of people who can usefully contribute to UWN who have not got a Launchpad account is as close to zero as makes no difference. In fact, as the original poster mentioned, there are some barriers to entry to gobby too (although surely there is a KDE frontend?). It seems to me that your second advantage can in any event be preserved by using gobby and allowing people to contribute anyway via the wiki. When a gobby session is open, there is probably a clever way to mark the wiki page as edit in progress and when it finishes, people can contribute on the wiki again. But as I said, I'm not familiar with the particular workflow of the UWN, so maybe that is not the way things are done. Matt -- http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] current state of forum-ambassadors and reaction on your feedback
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thank you all for your feedback. It was very helpful. PriceChild,ManiacMusician and me (Roald / ubuntu_demon) have discussed your feedback and we have taken note of it. We have also formulated some thoughts in reaction. We are happy to inform you that we are currently in a phase of the forum-ambassadors project where it makes sense to investigate who wants to become Forum Ambassador members / leaders. See forum link : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=366253 Please use reply-all to reply to this email. Thank you for all your feedback, Regards, Roald / ubuntu_demon on behalf of the upcoming forum ambassadors project Summarized suggestions of henrik nilsen omma : Document is too big for devs too read. So my suggestion would be: try to simplify it further and try making a start on the actual ambassador work and adjust as you go along. reaction : we want to start soon. we don't want to spend too much time on the document anymore. we'll learn as we go along. Yeah. Summarized suggestion of Matt Zimmerman : the best way to reach out from the forums (and getting to a lot of devs) is sending useful news to UWN. reaction : In the future we envision a lot of different tasks for forum-ambassadors such as helping users report bugs, helping users write specs, guide discussions about new specs and much more. We hope forum-ambassador volunteers will choose tasks based on skills,interest and time. We think it's a good idea to use UWN to report things like interesting threads to. Along with sending it to UWN, we will also post a copy of all the information gathered on the Ubuntu Forums, so anyone that whishes to view the details and specifics of our info can do so. Summarized mail of remo quintino : He thinks about creating a launchpad ambassadors team which works on all sources : forums,mailinglists,irc,.. reaction : It's not entirely clear to us what kind of tasks you envision the launchpad ambassadors to do. There's probably some overlap between these projects. Maybe both project can learn from eachother and cooperate on some stuff. As and when the launchpad ambassadors begin working the operations of the forum ambassadors can be adjusted easily. Summarized mail from david farning : mozillateam shows interest in forum-ambassadors reaction : We'll be happy to contact you if something mozilla related comes up. (as I ubuntu_demon already wrote in an email) matt zimmerman's last mail : I'm not up-to-date with the status of the forum ambassador proposal, but in general, I think that more tightly scoped project teams are more successful than very broad ones. That sounds like a lot of ground to cover, and perhaps it would be better to start small. reaction : Start with a tight scope (helping with bugs,reporting important bugs to UWN) and slowly broaden the scope to the other tasks we have defined. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF23oDadqpfxv/6LsRAtFZAJ0aYwngtDG85N/nZFjqIPVoGAVg2QCeN65g W/WCEZxTnuGAvIKEDDZ3JVc= =pKql -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
