Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
On Wed, 2007-08-15 at 13:05 +0100, John Levin wrote: > The success of Mint should be taken into account. It's currently at 5th > place in the distrowatch 7-day rankings. > "Linux Mint is an Ubuntu-based distribution whose goal is to provide a > more complete out-of-the-box experience by including browser plugins, > media codecs, support for DVD playback, Java and other components. It is > compatible with Ubuntu software repositories." > The question then becomes one of how can we make K/Ubuntu more complete, > 'out-of-the-box'. Well, I'm pretty sure Mint isn't legally distributable in many countries, and as far as I can recollect, the only improvements it makes to that experience are installing by default those "illegal" packages. As a reputable distributor, Ubuntu cannot include these packages, and the current situation is a pretty good compromise until everyone uses patent-free, open formats. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
John Levin wrote: > The question then becomes one of how can we make K/Ubuntu more complete, > 'out-of-the-box'. That is easy to answer: By changing certain laws. Unfortunately, not so easy to implement. -- Sincerely Melissa Draper http://www.meldraweb.com Phone: 0404 595 395 (intl): +61 404 595 395 P.O Box 1412 Lavington, NSW 2641 -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
> The success of Mint should be taken into account. It's currently at 5th > place in the distrowatch 7-day rankings. > "Linux Mint is an Ubuntu-based distribution whose goal is to provide a > more complete out-of-the-box experience by including browser plugins, > media codecs, support for DVD playback, Java and other components. It is > compatible with Ubuntu software repositories." > The question then becomes one of how can we make K/Ubuntu more complete, > 'out-of-the-box'. > > Regards > > John > This is something I have difficulty getting my head around. As I understand it, software patents aren't valid in the UK or most other European countries are they? If that's true, all of the fuss around shipping a distro with DVD, MP3 support etc really effects the American's more than other people then surely? If all that stands up, (unless I'm totally wrong, which has been known :-P ) then why not ship Ubuntu US and Ubuntu UK edition for instance. With one edition shipping ready to rock as it where Chris -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
Aaron Toponce wrote: > alan c wrote: >> What I actually see is an erosion of the top place that ubuntu has in >> the distrowatch rankings. It is a number, and it is moving in the >> wrong direction. I also see some publicity, including hype, that >> encourages attention for and use of pclinuxos. When it goes up the >> rankings, there is a congratulations on the forum (when I looked at >> one time a while ago). The team is focussed on success, why not? One >> success would be 'Top of distrowatch'. For all I know every pclos user >> clicks on distrowatch twice each day! > > First off, Distrowatch rankings are only the number of page hits on > Distrowatch's site, not the distro site. Again, these are just page > hits, and should be taken very likely. No distro's success hangs on the > page rankings of distrowatch. A true measurement of success is > dependent on many variables, not just page hits. Again, I would take > the rankings on Distrowatch very lightly. > The success of Mint should be taken into account. It's currently at 5th place in the distrowatch 7-day rankings. "Linux Mint is an Ubuntu-based distribution whose goal is to provide a more complete out-of-the-box experience by including browser plugins, media codecs, support for DVD playback, Java and other components. It is compatible with Ubuntu software repositories." The question then becomes one of how can we make K/Ubuntu more complete, 'out-of-the-box'. Regards John -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
Aaron Toponce wrote: [...] > Only the true hardcore nerds are familiar other distros such as > Yellow Dog, Nexenta, *BSD and even PCLinuxOS. Not any more, which is part of my point. My experience at the weekend was a shock to me, I was unprepared for it (I will be prepared in future though). The small trader I describe was no nerd, he did not even know the name of the distro properly, but could say it was like windows (!) and could describe the four colour logo. If he had been asking for my advice or anything else, ok I could understand, but he had already decided! If he had been in contact with any linux existing users he would have been able to ask in a different way. What this suggested to me was that he had been influenced by marketing in some way. A magazine article or something on the web. Our patch. [...] > Well, if you don't know what the message is, then how do you know > that it's getting across so well? I see results on distrowatch. If these are accidental, then I believe this team might like to check out which circumstances give such useful results. If it is from deliberate coordinated action, then, well, the same surely applies. I also get asked by hardened windows traders (one anyway) for a copy of the distro! I am not trying to say that I know everything about pclinuxos and their actions. I am pointing out that I see evidence that changes are taking place which are not (necessarily) in favour of ubuntu. The distro has a dedicated following who are active. As we might expect of course. The reason for me posting here and persisting is that we are a marketing list. There are marketing actions which are relevant. Gathering information, forming opinions, strategy, actively spreading information and so on. Pclos are doing something right. What is it? Can we do it? etc. Do I need to know in detail what their message is? They would be foolish not to have one, they clearly want to to be tops. And why not? We can all have a look at their sites and newsletters and forums and make our minds up, it would not be difficult. The surprise would be to find that they had no message. > I can tell you what drives Ubuntu's success. It's community. Yes this is exactly what brought me to Ubuntu. However I do not think we sing the praises of this (unique) benefit enough. However, one of the suggested ubuntu flicks which caught my attention does highlight this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V2oF_BNO5U it’s called the test: a girl is ubuntu and mac is the guy… they have to solve a problem and ubuntu get help from the comunity and mac is … all alone ;) very cool concept from page: http://johnc4510.wordpress.com/2007/08/12/ubuntu-viral-videos/ > Again, I wouldn't worry too much about Distrowatch. Any serious > Linux user that has been at it for some time, knows that > Distrowatch is merely *one* measurement of success. Debian is > ranked #6, Gentoo #13 and KNOPPIX #14, and yet I would call all 3 > of those distributions *very* successful. Maybe even more so than > Ubuntu. All Distrowatch is saying, is people are looking at those > pages, _on_ _Distrowatch_, which probably reflects desktop users > more than corporate entities. It is only one measurement yes certainly, but the press will not ignore it and some will make merry with it. I do not have a high opinion of most of the press. It is fine when you are winning, bad when you are not. You are big news both directions. Often without substance anyway. Is not this the stuff of marketing? It will be good to have some response ready. My guess is that in about 4 or 6 weeks, ubuntu will roll down to Number 2 on distrowatch (6 months). Hopefully we will be ready. Even better, the October timing of new releases of Gutsy and other distros will change the statistics landscape maybe? > In a nutshell, PCLinuxOS seems to be doing fairly well. And I hope > that they continue to become very successful. Linux adoption isn't > going to come from a single Distribution, but from the Linux > community as a whole. While I enjoy seeing more and more people > use Ubuntu, I don't want Ubuntu to become a monopoly in the Linux > market. I enjoy seeing people using other Distributions. It's > healthy, and should be encouraged. Yes, but it would be lovely to keep ubuntu up there? :-) > Mark Shuttleworth estimated around 3-4 million Ubuntu users. That > makes for a very successful operating system, even if the market > share is still small. So, keep spreading Ubuntu. ' sure will -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
alan c wrote: > From a marketing viewpoint, facts are only used when convenient, > which may not be often for some products. It is surprising what can be > achieved with clever marketing, even with a poor product. Microsoft? Microsoft came to the rise with more than just marketing. Shady legal tactics in and out of the courtroom were among some of it's successes. However, Microsoft just beat Apple and UNIX to the punch. They offered an appealing product to the masses faster and better than the competition during the early days. > The more that something is stated then the more it begins to become, > then becomes, accepted as fact. It goes without saying that marketing > budgets pay their way. Our whole (developed nations) economic culture > and way of life seems embedded in marketing and its symptom, > advertising. There is hardly a single fact to be seen! Sure. Marketing and advertising play a big role in the success of any product. The more that a company or organization can pay to advertise their product, the better chances of success they will have. > What I actually see is an erosion of the top place that ubuntu has in > the distrowatch rankings. It is a number, and it is moving in the > wrong direction. I also see some publicity, including hype, that > encourages attention for and use of pclinuxos. When it goes up the > rankings, there is a congratulations on the forum (when I looked at > one time a while ago). The team is focussed on success, why not? One > success would be 'Top of distrowatch'. For all I know every pclos user > clicks on distrowatch twice each day! First off, Distrowatch rankings are only the number of page hits on Distrowatch's site, not the distro site. Again, these are just page hits, and should be taken very likely. No distro's success hangs on the page rankings of distrowatch. A true measurement of success is dependent on many variables, not just page hits. Again, I would take the rankings on Distrowatch very lightly. > My agenda is to encourage success for ubuntu, not pclos. > > In addition to the continuing erosion of the ubuntu numbers on > distrowatch, I have now seen a very rare event - a committed windows > small trader *asking* me for pclinuxos, and not asking for ubuntu! > Their message seems to be getting across. I do not like this > situation, but this happened, and I think it is significant. I have never had anyone ask for PCLinuxOS, and I've been in the Linux industry for years. I hear new people asking either about Fedora Core, SuSE Linux, Ubuntu/Debian, Gentoo, Slackware or RedHat. And that's probably giving them more credit then they are allowed. I would say, the average Joe (your grandma or uncle) have only heard of Windows and Macintosh. Mention Linux, or UNIX even, and they have no idea what you're talking about. "Is Linux a program I can run in Windows?" I hear all the time. Only the true hardcore nerds are familiar other distros such as Yellow Dog, Nexenta, *BSD and even PCLinuxOS. > There are some attractions to be had by using pclos that are not in > ubuntu, and the reverse is also true. Some facilities could be changed > in ubuntu (or kubuntu) of course. It is a marketing function to assess > how product function affects sales and to inform designers, giving > direction if appropriate. However I do *not* believe the technical > differences are significant. As has been said, for example, kubuntu is > also available and I know it can compete very well indeed. I use it > almost exclusively. Every distribution is going to offer advantages and disadvantages that other distributions do not have. This is the nature of forking software. A team, or individual looks at a piece of software, and decides that some changes need to be made, so he/she/they fork it. This is what separates Free Software from proprietary software. Besides, the only difference that I see, is PCLinuxOS comes with Windows Media formats by default, as Ubuntu does not. The reasons for this are legal ones, and I would hardly call them an "advantage". > One explanation is that the PClinuxos message (whatever that is) is > getting across and the ubuntu (Kubuntu?) message is not getting across > so well, at least to a very visible population of clicking users. Well, if you don't know what the message is, then how do you know that it's getting across so well? I can tell you what drives Ubuntu's success. It's community. It's Debian based. It has superior hardware recognition. It has commercial support. It's easy to use. > We are here to get -our- message accross. We have to judge our own > actions, although distrowatch is giving me much cause for reflection. Again, I wouldn't worry too much about Distrowatch. Any serious Linux user that has been at it for some time, knows that Distrowatch is merely *one* measurement of success. Debian is ranked #6, Gentoo #13 and KNOPPIX #14, and yet I would call all 3 of those distributions *very*
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
alan c wrote: > From a marketing viewpoint, facts are only used when convenient, > which may not be often for some products. It is surprising what can be > achieved with clever marketing, even with a poor product. Microsoft? Microsoft came to the rise with more than just marketing. Shady legal tactics in and out of the courtroom were among some of it's successes. However, Microsoft just beat Apple and UNIX to the punch. They offered an appealing product to the masses faster and better than the competition during the early days. > The more that something is stated then the more it begins to become, > then becomes, accepted as fact. It goes without saying that marketing > budgets pay their way. Our whole (developed nations) economic culture > and way of life seems embedded in marketing and its symptom, > advertising. There is hardly a single fact to be seen! Sure. Marketing and advertising play a big role in the success of any product. The more that a company or organization can pay to advertise their product, the better chances of success they will have. > What I actually see is an erosion of the top place that ubuntu has in > the distrowatch rankings. It is a number, and it is moving in the > wrong direction. I also see some publicity, including hype, that > encourages attention for and use of pclinuxos. When it goes up the > rankings, there is a congratulations on the forum (when I looked at > one time a while ago). The team is focussed on success, why not? One > success would be 'Top of distrowatch'. For all I know every pclos user > clicks on distrowatch twice each day! First off, Distrowatch rankings are only the number of page hits on Distrowatch's site, not the distro site. Again, these are just page hits, and should be taken very likely. No distro's success hangs on the page rankings of distrowatch. A true measurement of success is dependent on many variables, not just page hits. Again, I would take the rankings on Distrowatch very lightly. > My agenda is to encourage success for ubuntu, not pclos. > > In addition to the continuing erosion of the ubuntu numbers on > distrowatch, I have now seen a very rare event - a committed windows > small trader *asking* me for pclinuxos, and not asking for ubuntu! > Their message seems to be getting across. I do not like this > situation, but this happened, and I think it is significant. I have never had anyone ask for PCLinuxOS, and I've been in the Linux industry for years. I hear new people asking either about Fedora Core, SuSE Linux, Ubuntu/Debian, Gentoo, Slackware or RedHat. And that's probably giving them more credit then they are allowed. I would say, the average Joe (your grandma or uncle) have only heard of Windows and Macintosh. Mention Linux, or UNIX even, and they have no idea what you're talking about. "Is Linux a program I can run in Windows?" I hear all the time. Only the true hardcore nerds are familiar other distros such as Yellow Dog, Nexenta, *BSD and even PCLinuxOS. > There are some attractions to be had by using pclos that are not in > ubuntu, and the reverse is also true. Some facilities could be changed > in ubuntu (or kubuntu) of course. It is a marketing function to assess > how product function affects sales and to inform designers, giving > direction if appropriate. However I do *not* believe the technical > differences are significant. As has been said, for example, kubuntu is > also available and I know it can compete very well indeed. I use it > almost exclusively. Every distribution is going to offer advantages and disadvantages that other distributions do not have. This is the nature of forking software. A team, or individual looks at a piece of software, and decides that some changes need to be made, so he/she/they fork it. This is what separates Free Software from proprietary software. Besides, the only difference that I see, is PCLinuxOS comes with Windows Media formats by default, as Ubuntu does not. The reasons for this are legal ones, and I would hardly call them an "advantage". > One explanation is that the PClinuxos message (whatever that is) is > getting across and the ubuntu (Kubuntu?) message is not getting across > so well, at least to a very visible population of clicking users. Well, if you don't know what the message is, then how do you know that it's getting across so well? I can tell you what drives Ubuntu's success. It's community. It's Debian based. It has superior hardware recognition. It has commercial support. It's easy to use. > We are here to get -our- message accross. We have to judge our own > actions, although distrowatch is giving me much cause for reflection. Again, I wouldn't worry too much about Distrowatch. Any serious Linux user that has been at it for some time, knows that Distrowatch is merely *one* measurement of success. Debian is ranked #6, Gentoo #13 and KNOPPIX #14, and yet I would call all 3 of those distributions *very*
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Of course, it would greatly help if we could market Kubuntu more, and obviously show it as a sister project to Ubuntu (or however we do/should term it)... I'm not sure that we market Kubuntu much at all, currently... Hobbsee -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGwY+A7/o1b30rzoURAnwUAJ4p1EE3BaKnRs/IgfTXEl3A8ZZbUwCfWrNc jNgmFCY97h3gR0IJ5lMtv2Y= =oQMw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
tis 2007-08-14 klockan 09:53 +0100 skrev Matthew East: > Hi, > > On 14/08/07, alan c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My agenda is to encourage success for ubuntu, not pclos. > > I'm sure that's true. > > The responses to your post are quite right however: from a technical > point of view the article you've linked to is pretty inaccurate and > poor quality. > > But to move this thread on, I think it's better to focus on your > position that Ubuntu is losing out on popularity to PCLinuxOS, and be > constructive: do you have any ideas about *how* Ubuntu can address the > position. It's all very well to use the word "marketing" willy-nilly, > but if that isn't backed up with proposals to do something positive, > then it's not very useful. > > Here's one idea to kick off: perhaps writing a constructive response > to articles like this might be helpful, pointing out all the mistakes > (for example, that Ubuntu has also only been around for a few years, > since 2004, that PCLinuxOS / Ubuntu both use apt, that codecs like > those required to play mp3s are automatically installed when required, > hardware support, and highlighting any advantages Ubuntu has, such as > good security responses or whatever). This seems like a good thing to start with. we already have Aaron Toponce's email which we can flesh out and post. After that we should stop focusing on why Ubuntu is a good choice, and start talking about why Ubuntu is a better, or the best choice. We should start comparing Ubuntu with other distros and OS'. We should put extra effort into marketing Gutsy which got all of these extraordinary features like Compiz-Fusion, APTonCD, and this unified desktop-settings-frontend for Gnome. And we shouldn't forget to mention the very big community-support. Like the fact that when you google on technical topics, you are very likely to find a ubuntu-based HowTo in the en first hits. Martin -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
Hi, On 14/08/07, alan c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My agenda is to encourage success for ubuntu, not pclos. I'm sure that's true. The responses to your post are quite right however: from a technical point of view the article you've linked to is pretty inaccurate and poor quality. But to move this thread on, I think it's better to focus on your position that Ubuntu is losing out on popularity to PCLinuxOS, and be constructive: do you have any ideas about *how* Ubuntu can address the position. It's all very well to use the word "marketing" willy-nilly, but if that isn't backed up with proposals to do something positive, then it's not very useful. Here's one idea to kick off: perhaps writing a constructive response to articles like this might be helpful, pointing out all the mistakes (for example, that Ubuntu has also only been around for a few years, since 2004, that PCLinuxOS / Ubuntu both use apt, that codecs like those required to play mp3s are automatically installed when required, hardware support, and highlighting any advantages Ubuntu has, such as good security responses or whatever). -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Ditto Aaron Toponce Ditto > > > > > Aaron Toponce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 08/13/2007 01:59 PM > Please respond to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To > alan c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc > Ubuntu Marketing > Subject > Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than > Ubuntu? > > > > > > > Looking at his blog, these are the reasons that he lists: > > 1) First reason, PCLOS is based on KDE, while Ubuntu is based on GNOME. > And the hard truth is that KDE is definitely better than GNOME. > > I disagree. Gnome is better than KDE. So, because of my opinion, that > makes Ubuntu better than PCLinux2007. Oh, wait, I can easily > install/download KDE for Ubuntu. Hmm. Does that mean they are the same > now? > > 2) PCLOS has far more stability than Ubuntu. > > Again, I disagree. Every stable release of Ubuntu that I have ran on > production machines, workstations, and school labs, has had little if > any stability issues, whereas every RPM-based distro I have run, has had > very major stability issues, including distros from big companies like > RedHat, Novell and even Sun Microsystems. I guess .deb just "works for > me". > > 3) PCLOS comes pre-installed with most of commonly used multimedia > formats(except real player, quick time, and mpg), while Ubuntu doesn't. > > So, what does it come installed with, if it doesn't have Real Player, > QuickTime and MPEG? Oh, the Windows formats? They're the most widely > used? I must upgrade my system then, as I haven't had the need in > almost 3 years to view a Windows-based format. Besides, where is his > support to backup his claims? > > 4) Apparently, we missed that number. > > 5) PCLOS control center is a big and easy tool to configure system with > just few clicks, while there is not anything analogous in Ubuntu. > > You mean the gnome-control-center? So, you like it in one big fat GUI, > rather than in a menu? And this makes PCLinux2007 better than Ubuntu. > Well, I like it better in a menu, so that means that Ubuntu is better, > because that's how I like it (see point #1). > > 6) Some things which i personally experienced with my own system: > > Ubuntu correctly recognized *all* of my hardware, and properly got them > running, including wireless, going all the way back to Warty Warthog, > where *NO* other distro, including Debian itself, has. > > 7) What Surprises Me Really As if why Ubuntu hasn't been able to do same > things... > > I guess it's the number 1 distro in the world because it does everything > correctly. Why fix something if it isn't broken? > > I appreciate the review, but it's nothing more than very opinionated and > one-sided. It even comes across as 'fan-boyish'. He doesn't support > his claims he makes on his blog, he overgeneralizes and stereotypes, and > further, only mentions the things that he does with a Linux operating > system. While he may feel that he's being honest, I would question a > great deal of that post. From a marketing viewpoint, facts are only used when convenient, which may not be often for some products. It is surprising what can be achieved with clever marketing, even with a poor product. Microsoft? The more that something is stated then the more it begins to become, then becomes, accepted as fact. It goes without saying that marketing budgets pay their way. Our whole (developed nations) economic culture and way of life seems embedded in marketing and its symptom, advertising. There is hardly a single fact to be seen! What I actually see is an erosion of the top place that ubuntu has in the distrowatch rankings. It is a number, and it is moving in the wrong direction. I also see some publicity, including hype, that encourages attention for and use of pclinuxos. When it goes up the rankings, there is a congratulations on the forum (when I looked at one time a while ago). The team is focussed on success, why not? One success would be 'Top of distrowatch'. For all I know every pclos user clicks on distrowatch twice each day! My agenda is to encourage success for ubuntu, not pclos. In addition to the continuing erosion of the ubuntu numbers on distrowatch, I have now seen a very rare event - a committed windows small trader *asking* me for pclinuxos, and not asking for ubuntu! Their message seems to be getting across. I do not like this situation, but this happened, and I think it is significant. There are some attractions to be had by using pclos that are not in ubuntu, and the reverse is also true. Some facilities could be changed in ubuntu (or kubuntu) of c
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
Ditto Aaron Toponce Ditto Aaron Toponce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/13/2007 01:59 PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To alan c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc Ubuntu Marketing Subject Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu? Looking at his blog, these are the reasons that he lists: 1) First reason, PCLOS is based on KDE, while Ubuntu is based on GNOME. And the hard truth is that KDE is definitely better than GNOME. I disagree. Gnome is better than KDE. So, because of my opinion, that makes Ubuntu better than PCLinux2007. Oh, wait, I can easily install/download KDE for Ubuntu. Hmm. Does that mean they are the same now? 2) PCLOS has far more stability than Ubuntu. Again, I disagree. Every stable release of Ubuntu that I have ran on production machines, workstations, and school labs, has had little if any stability issues, whereas every RPM-based distro I have run, has had very major stability issues, including distros from big companies like RedHat, Novell and even Sun Microsystems. I guess .deb just "works for me". 3) PCLOS comes pre-installed with most of commonly used multimedia formats(except real player, quick time, and mpg), while Ubuntu doesn't. So, what does it come installed with, if it doesn't have Real Player, QuickTime and MPEG? Oh, the Windows formats? They're the most widely used? I must upgrade my system then, as I haven't had the need in almost 3 years to view a Windows-based format. Besides, where is his support to backup his claims? 4) Apparently, we missed that number. 5) PCLOS control center is a big and easy tool to configure system with just few clicks, while there is not anything analogous in Ubuntu. You mean the gnome-control-center? So, you like it in one big fat GUI, rather than in a menu? And this makes PCLinux2007 better than Ubuntu. Well, I like it better in a menu, so that means that Ubuntu is better, because that's how I like it (see point #1). 6) Some things which i personally experienced with my own system: Ubuntu correctly recognized *all* of my hardware, and properly got them running, including wireless, going all the way back to Warty Warthog, where *NO* other distro, including Debian itself, has. 7) What Surprises Me Really As if why Ubuntu hasn't been able to do same things... I guess it's the number 1 distro in the world because it does everything correctly. Why fix something if it isn't broken? I appreciate the review, but it's nothing more than very opinionated and one-sided. It even comes across as 'fan-boyish'. He doesn't support his claims he makes on his blog, he overgeneralizes and stereotypes, and further, only mentions the things that he does with a Linux operating system. While he may feel that he's being honest, I would question a great deal of that post. Thanks, +--+ |Aaron Toponce _ Join the ASCII Ribbon Campaign | |OALUG President( ) http://www.asciiribbon.org | |http://www.aarontoponce.org X Against HTML e-mail| |http://www.oalug.com / \ Against proprietary attachments| +--Best viewed with a monospace font---+ -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing signature.asc Description: Binary data -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
Looking at his blog, these are the reasons that he lists: 1) First reason, PCLOS is based on KDE, while Ubuntu is based on GNOME. And the hard truth is that KDE is definitely better than GNOME. I disagree. Gnome is better than KDE. So, because of my opinion, that makes Ubuntu better than PCLinux2007. Oh, wait, I can easily install/download KDE for Ubuntu. Hmm. Does that mean they are the same now? 2) PCLOS has far more stability than Ubuntu. Again, I disagree. Every stable release of Ubuntu that I have ran on production machines, workstations, and school labs, has had little if any stability issues, whereas every RPM-based distro I have run, has had very major stability issues, including distros from big companies like RedHat, Novell and even Sun Microsystems. I guess .deb just "works for me". 3) PCLOS comes pre-installed with most of commonly used multimedia formats(except real player, quick time, and mpg), while Ubuntu doesn't. So, what does it come installed with, if it doesn't have Real Player, QuickTime and MPEG? Oh, the Windows formats? They're the most widely used? I must upgrade my system then, as I haven't had the need in almost 3 years to view a Windows-based format. Besides, where is his support to backup his claims? 4) Apparently, we missed that number. 5) PCLOS control center is a big and easy tool to configure system with just few clicks, while there is not anything analogous in Ubuntu. You mean the gnome-control-center? So, you like it in one big fat GUI, rather than in a menu? And this makes PCLinux2007 better than Ubuntu. Well, I like it better in a menu, so that means that Ubuntu is better, because that's how I like it (see point #1). 6) Some things which i personally experienced with my own system: Ubuntu correctly recognized *all* of my hardware, and properly got them running, including wireless, going all the way back to Warty Warthog, where *NO* other distro, including Debian itself, has. 7) What Surprises Me Really As if why Ubuntu hasn't been able to do same things... I guess it's the number 1 distro in the world because it does everything correctly. Why fix something if it isn't broken? I appreciate the review, but it's nothing more than very opinionated and one-sided. It even comes across as 'fan-boyish'. He doesn't support his claims he makes on his blog, he overgeneralizes and stereotypes, and further, only mentions the things that he does with a Linux operating system. While he may feel that he's being honest, I would question a great deal of that post. Thanks, +--+ |Aaron Toponce _ Join the ASCII Ribbon Campaign | |OALUG President( ) http://www.asciiribbon.org | |http://www.aarontoponce.org X Against HTML e-mail| |http://www.oalug.com / \ Against proprietary attachments| +--Best viewed with a monospace font---+ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
Martin Ahnelöv wrote: >> Martin Ahnelöv wrote: >> > mÃ¥n 2007-08-13 klockan 08:26 +0100 skrev alan c: >> >> Blog: >> >> Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu ? >> >> >> http://www.pkblogs.com/cyneuron/2007/08/why-is-pclinuxos-2007-better-than.html#comment-1731958896017522083 >> >> >> >> This blog has the most succinct comparison I have seen, I am >> impressed. >> >> I find I am in agreement with most (not all) of what is said, and >> I >> >> would like to see more discussion about it, with the objective of >> >> Ubuntu - or the family of products - staying top in as many areas >> as >> >> possible. >> >> >> >> The wonderful moves from Dell are very heartening, and I am >> delighted. >> >> >> >> I know that one point made in any related discussion is about >> codecs >> >> and legal issues, and K/Ubuntu has made great strides to help with >> >> this. I also know that with corporate backing such legal >> restraints >> >> are in place for good reason. >> >> >> >> I look at the distrowatch hit rankings regularly and am still >> >> concerned that ubuntu has consistently fallen below its top place >> for >> >> months now. It continues to fall. There is a significant and >> >> continuing move of interest towards pclinuxos with ubuntu coming >> >> second, and not by a small margin either. It will not be long >> before >> >> the default display of 6 month figures show a change, although >> ubuntu >> >> is still showing as number one currently with a small and reducing >> lead. >> >> >> >> It is the role of marketing to assess the market, and its >> movements, >> >> and help guide future product offerings and the perception of the >> >> products. >> >> >> >> Comments appreciated. >> > >> > I haven't been worried until now when you showed me these numbers. >> And >> > frankly, after reading that "article," I'm relieved. I mean, he >> can't >> > spell, use punctuations properly, or even spell "I" with a capital >> I. >> > And after reading the reasons, I was laughing. I can absolutely not >> take >> > him seriously. >> > >> > He just seems to be trolling. >> >> Hi Gasten >> (did you intend this to be off list?) > > No, sorry! I usually have to just click on the answer-button in > Evolution to send to the list, but this list seems to be configured > different than I'm used to. > >> Thank you for taking the numbers seriously. >> >> I did not notice the spelling in the article. I was very impressed >> with the clarity of the opinion, its detailed analysis, and the >> logical relevance to something which troubles me greatly - loss of >> leading status of Ubuntu in an obvious metric (distrowatch). It helps >> too that I agree with a great deal in what he says. For example I >> talk >> with many windows users who are thinking of trying K/Ubuntu (linux). >> When discussing the options it is usual for them to prefer kubuntu >> rather than ubuntu. >> >> I think it is a mistake to discount the points because of poor >> spelling, and I do not think it is a troll at all. It has taken too >> much effort to put together. Ubuntu is very significantly loosing to >> pclinuxos, for whatever reason. Soon we are likely to see pclinuxos >> being pre installed by small traders when selling hardware. I have a >> regular monthly volunteer advocacy table at a local computer fair - >> one took place yesterday. I spend all day talking to people who use >> windows and mostly never heard of linux. The traders themselves have >> been particularly resistant to non windows. >> However yesterday one >> actually came over to me and specifically asked for 'pc linux'! At >> first I did not recognise what he was asking, and even when I did I >> realise, I did not have any CDs, I am rather focussed on Ubuntu! >> However, when trying to explain, he described the pclos logo and that >> it was 'like windows, and easy'. >> >> This trader has a stand with 150 PCs and laptops to sell. It is >> possible that within a few months maybe he will be offering pclos as >> preinstalled. It will be hard for me to counter the sort of >> attraction >> he obviously has seen for pclos although I will try. >> >> I believe there is a significant movement and it is not in Ubuntu's >> favour. At least we can take notice, and maybe, (?) do something >> about >> it. >> -- >> alan cocks >> Kubuntu user#10391 >> > > Again, I haven't noticed this movement at all. I hope it's just delight > of the novelty that's plaining - and that were bound to happen sometime. > Now we just have to deal with it and keep being the best OS there is. > > And everything he said about KDE is better than Gnome is just invalid > since we offer goth Ubuntu and Kubuntu and we got full support for both > of them - and they are essentially the same thing. I know they are essentially the same thing, but the trader I mentioned *asked* me for pclinux not Kubuntu! He has been affected by pclinuxos marketing, not by kubuntu marketing. He did not e
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
> Martin Ahnelöv wrote: > > mÃ¥n 2007-08-13 klockan 08:26 +0100 skrev alan c: > >> Blog: > >> Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu ? > >> > http://www.pkblogs.com/cyneuron/2007/08/why-is-pclinuxos-2007-better-than.html#comment-1731958896017522083 > >> > >> This blog has the most succinct comparison I have seen, I am > impressed. > >> I find I am in agreement with most (not all) of what is said, and > I > >> would like to see more discussion about it, with the objective of > >> Ubuntu - or the family of products - staying top in as many areas > as > >> possible. > >> > >> The wonderful moves from Dell are very heartening, and I am > delighted. > >> > >> I know that one point made in any related discussion is about > codecs > >> and legal issues, and K/Ubuntu has made great strides to help with > >> this. I also know that with corporate backing such legal > restraints > >> are in place for good reason. > >> > >> I look at the distrowatch hit rankings regularly and am still > >> concerned that ubuntu has consistently fallen below its top place > for > >> months now. It continues to fall. There is a significant and > >> continuing move of interest towards pclinuxos with ubuntu coming > >> second, and not by a small margin either. It will not be long > before > >> the default display of 6 month figures show a change, although > ubuntu > >> is still showing as number one currently with a small and reducing > lead. > >> > >> It is the role of marketing to assess the market, and its > movements, > >> and help guide future product offerings and the perception of the > >> products. > >> > >> Comments appreciated. > > > > I haven't been worried until now when you showed me these numbers. > And > > frankly, after reading that "article," I'm relieved. I mean, he > can't > > spell, use punctuations properly, or even spell "I" with a capital > I. > > And after reading the reasons, I was laughing. I can absolutely not > take > > him seriously. > > > > He just seems to be trolling. > > Hi Gasten > (did you intend this to be off list?) No, sorry! I usually have to just click on the answer-button in Evolution to send to the list, but this list seems to be configured different than I'm used to. > Thank you for taking the numbers seriously. > > I did not notice the spelling in the article. I was very impressed > with the clarity of the opinion, its detailed analysis, and the > logical relevance to something which troubles me greatly - loss of > leading status of Ubuntu in an obvious metric (distrowatch). It helps > too that I agree with a great deal in what he says. For example I > talk > with many windows users who are thinking of trying K/Ubuntu (linux). > When discussing the options it is usual for them to prefer kubuntu > rather than ubuntu. > > I think it is a mistake to discount the points because of poor > spelling, and I do not think it is a troll at all. It has taken too > much effort to put together. Ubuntu is very significantly loosing to > pclinuxos, for whatever reason. Soon we are likely to see pclinuxos > being pre installed by small traders when selling hardware. I have a > regular monthly volunteer advocacy table at a local computer fair - > one took place yesterday. I spend all day talking to people who use > windows and mostly never heard of linux. The traders themselves have > been particularly resistant to non windows. However yesterday one > actually came over to me and specifically asked for 'pc linux'! At > first I did not recognise what he was asking, and even when I did I > realise, I did not have any CDs, I am rather focussed on Ubuntu! > However, when trying to explain, he described the pclos logo and that > it was 'like windows, and easy'. > > This trader has a stand with 150 PCs and laptops to sell. It is > possible that within a few months maybe he will be offering pclos as > preinstalled. It will be hard for me to counter the sort of > attraction > he obviously has seen for pclos although I will try. > > I believe there is a significant movement and it is not in Ubuntu's > favour. At least we can take notice, and maybe, (?) do something > about > it. > -- > alan cocks > Kubuntu user#10391 > Again, I haven't noticed this movement at all. I hope it's just delight of the novelty that's plaining - and that were bound to happen sometime. Now we just have to deal with it and keep being the best OS there is. And everything he said about KDE is better than Gnome is just invalid since we offer goth Ubuntu and Kubuntu and we got full support for both of them - and they are essentially the same thing. Martin -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
[ubuntu-marketing] heads up - Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu?
Blog: Why Is PCLinuxOS 2007 Better Than Ubuntu ? http://www.pkblogs.com/cyneuron/2007/08/why-is-pclinuxos-2007-better-than.html#comment-1731958896017522083 This blog has the most succinct comparison I have seen, I am impressed. I find I am in agreement with most (not all) of what is said, and I would like to see more discussion about it, with the objective of Ubuntu - or the family of products - staying top in as many areas as possible. The wonderful moves from Dell are very heartening, and I am delighted. I know that one point made in any related discussion is about codecs and legal issues, and K/Ubuntu has made great strides to help with this. I also know that with corporate backing such legal restraints are in place for good reason. I look at the distrowatch hit rankings regularly and am still concerned that ubuntu has consistently fallen below its top place for months now. It continues to fall. There is a significant and continuing move of interest towards pclinuxos with ubuntu coming second, and not by a small margin either. It will not be long before the default display of 6 month figures show a change, although ubuntu is still showing as number one currently with a small and reducing lead. It is the role of marketing to assess the market, and its movements, and help guide future product offerings and the perception of the products. Comments appreciated. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
