Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
Michael T wrote: > Hello, > > I couldn't decide where the best place was to post this to. If you feel > that this mailing list is not appropriate, and have an alternative > suggestion, I would be glad to hear it. > > Some of you may have noticed that I posted this as a comment to Bug 1. When > I read the other comments posted to that bug, most of them are on the lines > of > > "Ubuntu is so much better than Windows that if people don't use it, it must > be a conspiracy". > > Personally, I think that while Ubuntu may really be better for those > particular posters, it is probably not the case for many Windows users. > Furthermore, I think that even more could be done to investigate why Windows > users may have problems with Ubuntu. I have doubts that effort in these directions will give enough value just now. The one thing that most windows users lack is up front awarenes of Ubuntu brand and the thought that Ubuntu is everywhere and is desirable. Bumper stickers, campaigns, publicity. Not to mention OEM installs and local contact groups. We are weeks away from vista releases - many win users will be beginning to think of the future over this period. If we take our eye off the immediate marketing ball, we are loosing drive just at the time we could be getting the message out there. Over the last 4 or 5 months they have been many press comments about Ubuntu but I cannot recall a singe one which complained about Usabilty. I know it is not perfect, but it is very good. When I first used dos, or win 3 or win 95, 98, XP, there were significant usability - or familiarity issues. Always. Windows did not get where it is because of usability, but marketing and image. I was good with Wordperfect dos, then I had to start using MS word. It was an absolute *nightmare*. To encourage the change, MS added a how to facility in Word, for wordperfect users - but they did not change the functionality or the usability, just gave information. Even if ubuntu is totally perfect in everyones eyes, this will not make win users change unless they *want* to. What I learned by observing MS is that most people can be encouraged to want something that is way way far from perfect, or even good. -- alan cocks Linux registered user #360648 -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
> http://www.openusability.org/ I know KDE has Usability experts on > their team (Ellen Reitmayr and others). There was an Ubuntu project > listed here awhile back but I didn't see it recently. Thanks for the great link, Belinda! Regardless of how it fits into the Ubuntu project, I'm glad to know of its existence :-D > A Usability Team might be a good idea but it would need to integrate > with the Art/Marketing/Bug Squad/other Teams to make it an integrated > part of the project. For now perhaps getting one or two key/specific > areas identified as an Open Usability project might be a good start? > Just a thought. I don't really Usability as a Marketing Team task > but as part of the overall Development process. I know that in my personal experiences in "marketing" to friends and family (and strangers, yes) that usability has come up in conversation multiple times. That said, I certainly agree that Usability (with a capital U) is probably not a task for the Marketing Team. What I _do_ think, however, is that gathering knee-jerk reactions from the general public will be of great use to our Marketing efforts (with a capital M.) By this I mean something on the order of a quick survey at the end of a web-based tour, or perhaps a post-LiveCD questionnaire. I'm most interested in what people think when they happen upon Ubuntu for the first time - especially if it's their first time with GNU/LInux. So, I suppose I'm personally leaning toward integrating the usability topic into a more general feedback channel to aid the Marketing Team. Am I the only one? :-D -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
On Nov 27, 2006, at 7:11 AM, Daniel Buch wrote: > Anybody out there aware of usability studies being conducted by > Gnome/KDE/Xfce/(name a desktop manager) developers? http://www.openusability.org/ I know KDE has Usability experts on their team (Ellen Reitmayr and others). There was an Ubuntu project listed here awhile back but I didn't see it recently. > > Would it serve everyone _better_ to have a *buntu-centric portal from > which usability feedback might be disseminated to said developers? > > Where does this fit into the Ubuntu-Marketing community? Is this a > task for another team? A Usability Team might be a good idea but it would need to integrate with the Art/Marketing/Bug Squad/other Teams to make it an integrated part of the project. For now perhaps getting one or two key/specific areas identified as an Open Usability project might be a good start? Just a thought. I don't really Usability as a Marketing Team task but as part of the overall Development process. Belinda -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
Profue apologies for the multiple posts; was having a day with the list subscription. Josef On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 04:12:20PM +0200, Josef Assad wrote: > Rather than re-invent the wheel, have a look at the Gnome usability > project (though apparently defunct now if the front page news roll is > anything to go by). > > They have done some usability studies, and while they are _seriously_ > flawed at least the methodology isn't half bad. > > I hope that's what you mean with usability: Gnome. A scope any broader > and the idea would have too broad an initial scope to result in > anything. > > > Josef -- +---+--+ | Josef Assad | "What is this, some | | | kind of grep bitten | | Linux registered user #357805 | by a radioactive | | http://www.DonAssad.com | spider?" - CRM114| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Manual, apocryphal | +---+--+ -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
Rather than re-invent the wheel, have a look at the Gnome usability project (though apparently defunct now if the front page news roll is anything to go by). They have done some usability studies, and while they are _seriously_ flawed at least the methodology isn't half bad. I hope that's what you mean with usability: Gnome. A scope any broader and the idea would have too broad an initial scope to result in anything. Josef On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 08:11:17AM -0500, Daniel Buch wrote: > /* end rambling */ > /* begin open-ended questions */ > > Anybody out there aware of usability studies being conducted by > Gnome/KDE/Xfce/(name a desktop manager) developers? > > Would it serve everyone _better_ to have a *buntu-centric portal from > which usability feedback might be disseminated to said developers? > > Where does this fit into the Ubuntu-Marketing community? Is this a > task for another team? > > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing ---end quoted text--- -- +---+--+ | Josef Assad | "What is this, some | | | kind of grep bitten | | Linux registered user #357805 | by a radioactive | | http://www.DonAssad.com | spider?" - CRM114| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Manual, apocryphal | +---+--+ -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
Rather than re-invent the wheel, have a look at the Gnome usability project (though apparently defunct now if the front page news roll is anything to go by). They have done some usability studies, and while they are _seriously_ flawed at least the methodology isn't half bad. I hope that's what you mean with usability: Gnome. A scope any broader and the idea would have too broad an initial scope to result in anything. Josef On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 08:11:17AM -0500, Daniel Buch wrote: > /* end rambling */ > /* begin open-ended questions */ > > Anybody out there aware of usability studies being conducted by > Gnome/KDE/Xfce/(name a desktop manager) developers? > > Would it serve everyone _better_ to have a *buntu-centric portal from > which usability feedback might be disseminated to said developers? > > Where does this fit into the Ubuntu-Marketing community? Is this a > task for another team? > > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing ---end quoted text--- -- +---+--+ | Josef Assad | "What is this, some | | | kind of grep bitten | | Linux registered user #357805 | by a radioactive | | http://www.DonAssad.com | spider?" - CRM114| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Manual, apocryphal | +---+--+ -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
Rather than re-invent the wheel, have a look at the Gnome usability project (though apparently defunct now if the front page news roll is anything to go by). They have done some usability studies, and while they are _seriously_ flawed at least the methodology isn't half bad. I hope that's what you mean with usability: Gnome. A scope any broader and the idea would have too broad an initial scope to result in anything. Josef On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 08:11:17AM -0500, Daniel Buch wrote: > /* begin open-ended questions */ > > Anybody out there aware of usability studies being conducted by > Gnome/KDE/Xfce/(name a desktop manager) developers? > > Would it serve everyone _better_ to have a *buntu-centric portal from > which usability feedback might be disseminated to said developers? > > Where does this fit into the Ubuntu-Marketing community? Is this a > task for another team? > > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing ---end quoted text--- -- +---+--+ | Josef Assad | "What is this, some | | | kind of grep bitten | | Linux registered user #357805 | by a radioactive | | http://www.DonAssad.com | spider?" - CRM114| | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Manual, apocryphal | +---+--+ -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
>From: "Daniel Buch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Before we go and start a new site (i.e. "usability.ubuntu.com") I'd >personally like to hear others' thoughts on where usability feedback >might best fit into the current family of Ubuntu sites. Clearly, the >Forum is a gold mine (black hole ;-) ?) of usability commentary, but >it isn't exactly a direct line to god (sabdfl.) We can collect all of >the feedback we like, but it won't mean squat unless it gets back to >the MOTU et al... plus there's the upstream. One of the easiest ways would be to create an information page (on spreadubuntu.com? :) for mentors wanting to recruit beta-testers and a thread on the Ubuntu forums where reports could be posted. I am assuming that the bug reports posted by the mentors would in the end be more important than the reports, and that the reports would be more informational. So having them on a forum thread rather than in a more formal place might not be such a problem - especially as the more recent ones will be grouped together automatically that way :) >Anybody out there aware of usability studies being conducted by >Gnome/KDE/Xfce/(name a desktop manager) developers? As I said, www.betterdesktop.org. >Where does this fit into the Ubuntu-Marketing community? Is this a >task for another team? I'm afraid you will have to answer that one... Regards, Michael _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
Like many others out there (I'm sure,) my personal ubuntu marketing plan begins with friends and family. Informal usability studies are built into every conversation had 'round a Live CD session or - hopefully - fresh Ubuntu install. I am definitely in agreement with Michael about having some sort of repository for usability feedback, and I am also painfully aware of Sridhar's point as most of the feedback I get from said friends and family can be classified as MS-centric. Before we go and start a new site (i.e. "usability.ubuntu.com") I'd personally like to hear others' thoughts on where usability feedback might best fit into the current family of Ubuntu sites. Clearly, the Forum is a gold mine (black hole ;-) ?) of usability commentary, but it isn't exactly a direct line to god (sabdfl.) We can collect all of the feedback we like, but it won't mean squat unless it gets back to the MOTU et al... plus there's the upstream. /* end rambling */ /* begin open-ended questions */ Anybody out there aware of usability studies being conducted by Gnome/KDE/Xfce/(name a desktop manager) developers? Would it serve everyone _better_ to have a *buntu-centric portal from which usability feedback might be disseminated to said developers? Where does this fit into the Ubuntu-Marketing community? Is this a task for another team? -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
Most people would have to use something daily for at least a week to get a good idea of what something is like. It can take several months there after to get acclimated. It is the people who don't have a lot of money that are most likely to make the switch. Also those that are running older Microsoft systems. Win 95, 98, 98SE, and ME are systems that the average home user has. They are becoming increasingly more and more limited to the point that it is better to upgrade to a newer os or buy a new computer. I have two computers in my office that crash all the time they are running win98 and ME. All the other computers run Ubuntu or winXP. In the future I am hoping to have all the computers running Ubuntu and winXP as a virtual machine. There are still a few window apps that we need to run so those will be handled by wine or the virtual machine. Beth Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 11/25/06, Sridhar Dhanapalan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sunday 26 November 2006 06:08, "Michael T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I would like to suggest the following idea. Ubuntu/Kubuntu users should be > > encouraged to get non-Ubuntu users to try out Ubuntu/Kubuntu for a bit (a > > few hours? days? As much as possible) and to produce a report about the > > problems and annoyances that they encountered. A forum or a place should > > be created where they could upload these reports, and they should be > > encouraged to create bug reports for as many of the problems as possible. > > This might help to address precisely the problems that put off Windows > > users. > > > > I really suspect that many (although not all) of the problems will be quite > > small and easily fixed. I think that the average Windows user does not > > expect to be able to install an operating system, and expects difficulties > > and problems when they try to do unfamiliar things, but does expect to be > > able to go about their daily tasks with no difficulties. > > > > See Novell's usability project - http://www.betterdesktop.org/ - for a > > similar project. > > That is definitely a good idea to consider, but we must also be careful that > we don't pander to the "it's not Windows" crowd. These are the people who, > whenever they try something else, expect it to behave exactly as they are > used to in Windows. The result is that interfaces and behavior become > modeled after Windows, not after what is actually a better (more usable, > efficient, etc.) design. The apps that Novell contributes to are classic > examples: Evolution and OpenOffice.org are clearly designed to feel familiar > to MS Outlook and Office users respectively. > > Most usability studies, from what I understand, focus on people using an app > for a few hours while their progress is monitored. A few hours is hardly > enough to adjust to a new design, and their biases from personal experience > will no doubt play a large part in their reactions and feedback. > > -- > "I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - > but that could change." - George W. Bush, 1998-05-22 > > > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > > > > -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Better investigating the problems Windows users have with Ubuntu
On Sunday 26 November 2006 06:08, "Michael T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would like to suggest the following idea. Ubuntu/Kubuntu users should be > encouraged to get non-Ubuntu users to try out Ubuntu/Kubuntu for a bit (a > few hours? days? As much as possible) and to produce a report about the > problems and annoyances that they encountered. A forum or a place should > be created where they could upload these reports, and they should be > encouraged to create bug reports for as many of the problems as possible. > This might help to address precisely the problems that put off Windows > users. > > I really suspect that many (although not all) of the problems will be quite > small and easily fixed. I think that the average Windows user does not > expect to be able to install an operating system, and expects difficulties > and problems when they try to do unfamiliar things, but does expect to be > able to go about their daily tasks with no difficulties. > > See Novell's usability project - http://www.betterdesktop.org/ - for a > similar project. That is definitely a good idea to consider, but we must also be careful that we don't pander to the "it's not Windows" crowd. These are the people who, whenever they try something else, expect it to behave exactly as they are used to in Windows. The result is that interfaces and behaviour become modelled after Windows, not after what is actually a better (more usable, efficient, etc.) design. The apps that Novell contributes to are classic examples: Evolution and OpenOffice.org are clearly designed to feel familiar to MS Outlook and Office users respectively. Most usability studies, from what I understand, focus on people using an app for a few hours while their progress is monitored. A few hours is hardly enough to adjust to a new design, and their biases from personal experience will no doubt play a large part in their reactions and feedback. -- "I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change." - George W. Bush, 1998-05-22 pgpIZZho4BJXJ.pgp Description: PGP signature -- ubuntu-marketing mailing list ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
