Re: UME theme and related tools
On Friday 21 September 2007 20:44:32 kyle.nitzsche wrote: > Hi, > > I am not sure I quite understand the licensing implications. My worry was that if images are released under different licenses (as is often the case when using artwork from different sources/authors) you'd have to reflect that somehow. Not even sure if this is a real problem - perhaps it is easily solvable - just an issue to discuss. > > And perhaps themeing icons isn't a good idea given their large number, > upstream changes, and etc. > > Still, shouldn't all the rest of the themeable images (gtk, window > manager, hildon) except for the background be themed using this single > approach/tool set? Definitely :-) -- Ken -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
Hi, I am not sure I quite understand the licensing implications. And perhaps themeing icons isn't a good idea given their large number, upstream changes, and etc. Still, shouldn't all the rest of the themeable images (gtk, window manager, hildon) except for the background be themed using this single approach/tool set? Kyle Kenneth Wimer wrote: On Friday 21 September 2007 19:47:33 kyle.nitzsche wrote: I think the theme SDK should provide a single approach/tool set for all themeable images, whether they are gtk, hildon, window manager or icons. (Not just widgets, as it seems to do now.) This would enable third-parties to easily create a whole theme without having to understand those distinctions. I can see the point that for 3rd parties it sounds like it would be easier to look at a couple of pics and then edit them but Perhaps the good work with the template.png and related tools could be readily expanded to include all themeable images by using multiple png files: * one for all themeable images in the UME base * one for each application Each application does not need it's own interface theme or icons except, perhaps, the actual application icon itself (at this time any 3rd party application icon belongs in HiColor). The typical action icons (forward, back, file open, file save, etc.) are generic and not applicaiton specific. Certain interface elements can be indiviualized per app but requiring this only makes things more complicated. Perhaps the home area background is themeable but isn't templatized png, since its just a single big file. This approach would bring all themeable images under control, so that a new comprehensive list of images with their locations doesn't have to be created every time a custom theme needs to be created. It would also enable pulling together custom sets of applications for a distribution and themeing them. One issue that comes to my mind is licensing. How would one correctly attribute an image with it's license if everything is in one file? In addition, adding upstream changes to an icons file would be a horrendous undertaking, again and again. All in all there are many hundreds of icons taking different sizes in to account. Add to that the fact that an OpenedHand interface will require SVG icons - I see now way to put lots of SVG's in one file and then somehow cut them out in real-time. When I made a list of all such base customizable UME images a month or so ago, it included gtk, hildon, and window manager called images. If we rule out using any open source artwork or any whatsoever with differing licenses and keep the number of apps on all systems down to a bare minimum and exclude ever having to use SVG icons natively using one big pic could work, I guess. -- Ken -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
On Friday 21 September 2007 19:47:33 kyle.nitzsche wrote: > I think the theme SDK should provide a single approach/tool set for all > themeable images, whether they are gtk, hildon, window manager or icons. > (Not just widgets, as it seems to do now.) > > This would enable third-parties to easily create a whole theme without > having to understand those distinctions. > I can see the point that for 3rd parties it sounds like it would be easier to look at a couple of pics and then edit them but > Perhaps the good work with the template.png and related tools could be > readily expanded to include all themeable images by using multiple png > files: * one for all themeable images in the UME base > * one for each application Each application does not need it's own interface theme or icons except, perhaps, the actual application icon itself (at this time any 3rd party application icon belongs in HiColor). The typical action icons (forward, back, file open, file save, etc.) are generic and not applicaiton specific. Certain interface elements can be indiviualized per app but requiring this only makes things more complicated. > Perhaps the home area background is themeable but isn't templatized png, > since its just a single big file. > > This approach would bring all themeable images under control, so that a > new comprehensive list of images with their locations doesn't have to be > created every time a custom theme needs to be created. It would also enable > pulling together custom sets of applications for a distribution and > themeing them. One issue that comes to my mind is licensing. How would one correctly attribute an image with it's license if everything is in one file? In addition, adding upstream changes to an icons file would be a horrendous undertaking, again and again. All in all there are many hundreds of icons taking different sizes in to account. Add to that the fact that an OpenedHand interface will require SVG icons - I see now way to put lots of SVG's in one file and then somehow cut them out in real-time. > When I made a list of all such base customizable UME images a month or so > ago, it included gtk, hildon, and window manager called images. If we rule out using any open source artwork or any whatsoever with differing licenses and keep the number of apps on all systems down to a bare minimum and exclude ever having to use SVG icons natively using one big pic could work, I guess. -- Ken -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
RE: UME theme and related tools
I agree, I think that is exactly the kind of tool needed for our customers to feel confident about doing their own theming. Cheers, Waldo Intel Corporation - Platform Software Engineering, UMG - Hillsboro, Oregon From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kyle.nitzsche Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:48 AM To: Bill Filler Cc: ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Subject: Re: UME theme and related tools I think the theme SDK should provide a single approach/tool set for all themeable images, whether they are gtk, hildon, window manager or icons. (Not just widgets, as it seems to do now.) This would enable third-parties to easily create a whole theme without having to understand those distinctions. Perhaps the good work with the template.png and related tools could be readily expanded to include all themeable images by using multiple png files: * one for all themeable images in the UME base * one for each application Perhaps the home area background is themeable but isn't templatized png, since its just a single big file. This approach would bring all themeable images under control, so that a new comprehensive list of images with their locations doesn't have to be created every time a custom theme needs to be created. It would also enable pulling together custom sets of applications for a distribution and themeing them. When I made a list of all such base customizable UME images a month or so ago, it included gtk, hildon, and window manager called images. Kyle Bill Filler wrote: Thanks for the clarification Ken. On Sep 21, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Kenneth Wimer wrote: On Friday 21 September 2007 16:44:10 Bill Filler wrote: Sorry if I am asking a dumb question here as I haven't been following the specific details, but I want to make sure I understand something. Hildon has recently documented their themeing support (see approriate links on http://live.gnome.org/Hildon). Are we basing the UME themeing on this and making improvements? If so, great and hopefully we will be merging the stuff upstream so that when future versions of Hildon themeing come out we can use them with our improvements. If not, how come? Thanks Yes, we are using the hildon themeing tools and infrastructure. The main thing we are changing in this aspect is the layout file which defines which parts we use and where they are located in the template.png file. Note, however that the themeing discussed here does not include icons. When we talk about hildon themeing we are discussing the style of the widgets/controls themselves, not the icons which appear on/in them. -- Ken -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/ listinfo/ubuntu-mobile -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
I think the theme SDK should provide a single approach/tool set for all themeable images, whether they are gtk, hildon, window manager or icons. (Not just widgets, as it seems to do now.) This would enable third-parties to easily create a whole theme without having to understand those distinctions. Perhaps the good work with the template.png and related tools could be readily expanded to include all themeable images by using multiple png files: * one for all themeable images in the UME base * one for each application Perhaps the home area background is themeable but isn't templatized png, since its just a single big file. This approach would bring all themeable images under control, so that a new comprehensive list of images with their locations doesn't have to be created every time a custom theme needs to be created. It would also enable pulling together custom sets of applications for a distribution and themeing them. When I made a list of all such base customizable UME images a month or so ago, it included gtk, hildon, and window manager called images. Kyle Bill Filler wrote: Thanks for the clarification Ken. On Sep 21, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Kenneth Wimer wrote: On Friday 21 September 2007 16:44:10 Bill Filler wrote: Sorry if I am asking a dumb question here as I haven't been following the specific details, but I want to make sure I understand something. Hildon has recently documented their themeing support (see approriate links on http://live.gnome.org/Hildon). Are we basing the UME themeing on this and making improvements? If so, great and hopefully we will be merging the stuff upstream so that when future versions of Hildon themeing come out we can use them with our improvements. If not, how come? Thanks Yes, we are using the hildon themeing tools and infrastructure. The main thing we are changing in this aspect is the layout file which defines which parts we use and where they are located in the template.png file. Note, however that the themeing discussed here does not include icons. When we talk about hildon themeing we are discussing the style of the widgets/controls themselves, not the icons which appear on/in them. -- Ken -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/ listinfo/ubuntu-mobile -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
On Fri, Sep 21, 2007 at 05:44:21PM +0800, Zhu, Peter J wrote: > Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > > > hildon-theme-plankton had the hildon-theme-cacher dependency removed > > in Matt Zimmerman's upload on June 12th. > > > Oops, you just reminded me. I added maemo in my source.list. Sorry for > this. > > BTW, how to let apt-get select gutsy package in first priority even its > version is lower than other release? This is possible using the pinning feature, but is inconvenient to configure and may not work the way you expect. I strongly recommend against mixing packages from these repositories, and purging any maemo packages from your system to replace them with the Ubuntu versions. -- - mdz -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
Thanks for the clarification Ken. On Sep 21, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Kenneth Wimer wrote: > On Friday 21 September 2007 16:44:10 Bill Filler wrote: >> Sorry if I am asking a dumb question here as I haven't been following >> the specific details, but I want to make sure I understand something. >> Hildon has recently documented their themeing support (see approriate >> links on http://live.gnome.org/Hildon). Are we basing the UME >> themeing on this and making improvements? If so, great and hopefully >> we will be merging the stuff upstream so that when future versions of >> Hildon themeing come out we can use them with our improvements. If >> not, how come? Thanks >> > > Yes, we are using the hildon themeing tools and infrastructure. The > main thing > we are changing in this aspect is the layout file which defines > which parts > we use and where they are located in the template.png file. > > Note, however that the themeing discussed here does not include > icons. When we > talk about hildon themeing we are discussing the style of the > widgets/controls themselves, not the icons which appear on/in them. > > -- > Ken > > -- > Ubuntu-mobile mailing list > Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/ > listinfo/ubuntu-mobile -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
On Friday 21 September 2007 16:44:10 Bill Filler wrote: > Sorry if I am asking a dumb question here as I haven't been following > the specific details, but I want to make sure I understand something. > Hildon has recently documented their themeing support (see approriate > links on http://live.gnome.org/Hildon). Are we basing the UME > themeing on this and making improvements? If so, great and hopefully > we will be merging the stuff upstream so that when future versions of > Hildon themeing come out we can use them with our improvements. If > not, how come? Thanks > Yes, we are using the hildon themeing tools and infrastructure. The main thing we are changing in this aspect is the layout file which defines which parts we use and where they are located in the template.png file. Note, however that the themeing discussed here does not include icons. When we talk about hildon themeing we are discussing the style of the widgets/controls themselves, not the icons which appear on/in them. -- Ken -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
Sorry if I am asking a dumb question here as I haven't been following the specific details, but I want to make sure I understand something. Hildon has recently documented their themeing support (see approriate links on http://live.gnome.org/Hildon). Are we basing the UME themeing on this and making improvements? If so, great and hopefully we will be merging the stuff upstream so that when future versions of Hildon themeing come out we can use them with our improvements. If not, how come? Thanks Bill On Sep 21, 2007, at 9:57 AM, Kenneth Wimer wrote: > On Friday 21 September 2007 15:00:16 Tollef Fog Heen wrote: >> * "Zhu, Peter J" >> >> | BTW, how to let apt-get select gutsy package in first priority >> even its >> | version is lower than other release? >> >> that's described in apt_preferences(5) >> >> | BTW, I suggest renaming sdk-default-icons pacakge to ume-default- >> icons >> | and modify it to put icons in /usr/share/icons/ume, your idea? >> >> This sounds fine to me, or get rid of it, if the icons are going >> to be >> in the normal theme package? > > As far as the icons go I think we should think about this more > carefully, > There will probably be several sets of icons. For instance, we will > use the > Tango icons as well as some of the gnome-default icons, on top of > those we > will have UME specific icons for certain things. The heirarchy > would be > UME->Tango->Gnome/Hildon(not sure exactly about this part, but you > get the > point)->HiColor(for 3rd party apps). Mixing these icons into one > dir is a > VeryBadIdea(tm) as it makes it almost impossible to keep up with > the upstream > changes. In addition we could create a list of icons from those > sets which we > explicitly do NOT need so that we can remove them per script each > time we > pull changes from upstream. > > -- > Ken > > -- > Ubuntu-mobile mailing list > Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/ > listinfo/ubuntu-mobile -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
On Friday 21 September 2007 15:00:16 Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > * "Zhu, Peter J" > > | BTW, how to let apt-get select gutsy package in first priority even its > | version is lower than other release? > > that's described in apt_preferences(5) > > | BTW, I suggest renaming sdk-default-icons pacakge to ume-default-icons > | and modify it to put icons in /usr/share/icons/ume, your idea? > > This sounds fine to me, or get rid of it, if the icons are going to be > in the normal theme package? As far as the icons go I think we should think about this more carefully, There will probably be several sets of icons. For instance, we will use the Tango icons as well as some of the gnome-default icons, on top of those we will have UME specific icons for certain things. The heirarchy would be UME->Tango->Gnome/Hildon(not sure exactly about this part, but you get the point)->HiColor(for 3rd party apps). Mixing these icons into one dir is a VeryBadIdea(tm) as it makes it almost impossible to keep up with the upstream changes. In addition we could create a list of icons from those sets which we explicitly do NOT need so that we can remove them per script each time we pull changes from upstream. -- Ken -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
* "Zhu, Peter J" | BTW, how to let apt-get select gutsy package in first priority even its | version is lower than other release? that's described in apt_preferences(5) | | BTW, I suggest renaming sdk-default-icons pacakge to ume-default-icons | and modify it to put icons in /usr/share/icons/ume, your idea? This sounds fine to me, or get rid of it, if the icons are going to be in the normal theme package? -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
RE: UME theme and related tools
Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > > hildon-theme-plankton had the hildon-theme-cacher dependency removed > in Matt Zimmerman's upload on June 12th. > Oops, you just reminded me. I added maemo in my source.list. Sorry for this. BTW, how to let apt-get select gutsy package in first priority even its version is lower than other release? > > > [...] > >> Questions comes, why make a copy from icon theme to applicaton theme? > > No idea. > >> And hildon-desktop code has some references to icons that are in >> /usr/share/themes/mobile-basic/images. But that's strange and not >> comply with standards. I suggest moving them to >> /usr/share/icons/hildon/, idea? I might have to figure out why >> hildon-desktop can find them. > > Sounds like a plan. I made a mistake as well. All the references are using name. Only test utilities in hildon-desktop use file path directly. So it should be using icons in icons folder. So no issue here. As pointed out above, icons in theme folder are a copy of those in icons folder. So icons in icon folder should be able to be removed. I made a test today and it seems work fine. But I'm not sure 100% because current flash UI desktop doesn't use those icons at all. > >> 2. Who knows how to set background on the fly in current >> hildon-desktop? Currently, the background pic and accompanying >> desktop file are stored in /usr/share/background. But I don't know >> how to set it on the fly. > > There's a dbus method for it and I believe hildon-desktop knows how > to, so you could grep through the source there. > > Thanks. I'll try after vacation. > [...] > >> 4. How to set icon theme and application theme on the fly in current >> hildon desktop? > > In the normal desktop, gnome-settings-daemon is responsible for > applying the settings, so you could take a look at exactly how it is > doing it? Do it after vacation. BTW, I suggest renaming sdk-default-icons pacakge to ume-default-icons and modify it to put icons in /usr/share/icons/ume, your idea? > > -- > Tollef Fog Heen > UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are > > -- > Ubuntu-mobile mailing list > Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
Re: UME theme and related tools
* "Zhu, Peter J" | [...] And from some review info, cacher is only used to improve | performance. If anybody here know more about cacher, let us know. If | nobody can provide appropriate info, I suggest removing this | dependency. hildon-theme-plankton had the hildon-theme-cacher dependency removed in Matt Zimmerman's upload on June 12th. Could you provide me with the output of «apt-cache policy hildon-theme-cacher» from your system? [...] | Questions comes, why make a copy from icon theme to applicaton theme? No idea. | And hildon-desktop code has some references to icons that are in | /usr/share/themes/mobile-basic/images. But that's strange and not comply | with standards. I suggest moving them to /usr/share/icons/hildon/, idea? | I might have to figure out why hildon-desktop can find them. Sounds like a plan. | 2. Who knows how to set background on the fly in current hildon-desktop? | Currently, the background pic and accompanying desktop file are stored | in /usr/share/background. But I don't know how to set it on the fly. There's a dbus method for it and I believe hildon-desktop knows how to, so you could grep through the source there. [...] | 4. How to set icon theme and application theme on the fly in current | hildon desktop? In the normal desktop, gnome-settings-daemon is responsible for applying the settings, so you could take a look at exactly how it is doing it? -- Tollef Fog Heen UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list Ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
