Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015, at 04:29 PM, pub...@sakrecoer.com wrote:
> 2015-10-30 16:19 skrev Kaj Ailomaa:
> 
> > I will still need to improve sections we have for new contributors, 
> > make
> > it as easy as possible for anyone to get involved. Once I've done that,
> > I'll prepare some text, and start posting.
> > 
> > This will be the first time we do this much noise about it, and to be
> > honest, I'm not expecting any miracles, but hoping to be proved wrong.
> > We really, really need people who are prepared to put some time into 
> > the
> > work. That's really the only thing holding development back.
> 
> 
> Neither do i expect miracles, but i want to believe a more frequent flux 
> of
> life-signs will generate greater reminiscence of ubuntustudio among the
> exisiting users.
> 
> Let us know if you need feedback on the texts!
> 
> 
> *set
> 

Absolutely. I can post a version here first before it used for anything.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[public]

2015-10-30 16:19 skrev Kaj Ailomaa:

I will still need to improve sections we have for new contributors, 
make

it as easy as possible for anyone to get involved. Once I've done that,
I'll prepare some text, and start posting.

This will be the first time we do this much noise about it, and to be
honest, I'm not expecting any miracles, but hoping to be proved wrong.
We really, really need people who are prepared to put some time into 
the

work. That's really the only thing holding development back.



Neither do i expect miracles, but i want to believe a more frequent flux 
of

life-signs will generate greater reminiscence of ubuntustudio among the
exisiting users.

Let us know if you need feedback on the texts!


*set

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Jimmy Sjölund]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Ralf Mardorf 
wrote:

>
> Does anybody expect to find contributors by social network presence?
>
> Yes, there are already users posting to the page or about Ubuntu Studio on
Facebook for instance. Some of them might consider contributing if we
showed them how.
Xubuntu has made good use of Twitter for instance.

/Jimmy
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:21:05 +0100, set wrote:
>I met you Ralf, on the very social public mailing list for Linux Audio
>Users :)

It is not a social network and I'm not an official Ubuntu Studio
contributor :p.

I'm not a member of the church of Linux audio, but I have other reasons
to wish that more people use Linux.

There are sane reasons to use either Ubuntu and/or Arch Linux as I do. A
Windows refugee most likely would be unable to cope with Arch, so I
would recommend Ubuntu Studio.

The reasons might help to find contributors (and to win more users):

- Ubuntu is the most known major distro
- Ubuntu has got a past and a future [1]
- Ubuntu follows the user-friendly approach with all it's pros and
  cons. For Linux beginners just the pros of the user-friendly approach
  counts, so it makes sense to contribute to Ubuntu, to spread Linux.

[1]
Yes, the presence and future of Ubuntu is disputed for reasons that
don't count that much for the averaged computer user, such as e.g. a
Windows refugee. The presence and future that counts for the averaged
computer users is better than that of other distros, with a small user
and maintainer base and even that of other user friendly major
distros, since they have got pitfalls Ubuntu doesn't have.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-29 12:16, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PublicRelationsDocumentation
> 
> So "support" in this context isn't "support" in the sense of helping
> users to fix issues with Linux and user space?!
> 

It's just my guess, but because support ultimately is the outward
showing face, it is part of the PR. Because nice support=friendly
looking OS.

But that page needs to be refreshed. All documentation really need to be
refreshed. This is something we can use to PR actualy. For each finished
wiki article, there is a potential announcement. Also, i think there
should be a call for contributors published on the website soon.

*Set

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-29 13:02, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> It is not a social network and I'm not an official Ubuntu Studio
> contributor :p.

It's a network of emails, with people, socializing around a theme. But
we could argue about the definition's finesses back and forth ad infinitum.

> I'm not a member of the church of Linux audio, but I have other reasons
> to wish that more people use Linux.
> 
> There are sane reasons to use either Ubuntu and/or Arch Linux as I do. A
> Windows refugee most likely would be unable to cope with Arch, so I
> would recommend Ubuntu Studio.

I get the feeling you take something personal. I hope i am wrong. Rest
assured that I have NO assumption about you NOR what religion could be
affiliated to you.

> 
> The reasons might help to find contributors (and to win more users):
> 
> - Ubuntu is the most known major distro
> - Ubuntu has got a past and a future [1]
> - Ubuntu follows the user-friendly approach with all it's pros and
>   cons. For Linux beginners just the pros of the user-friendly approach
>   counts, so it makes sense to contribute to Ubuntu, to spread Linux.

This is a great start to 3 potential posts on http://ubuntustudio.org It
would be awsome if you could develop these 3 points further and post it
here!!


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-29 16:57, set wrote:
> a simple translation from negative sentenses to positive. 
> I'll get back to you when i have it done!

Unless of course, you want to do it?

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

>> The reasons might help to find contributors (and to win more users):
>> 
>> - Ubuntu is the most known major distro
>> - Ubuntu has got a past and a future [1]
>> - Ubuntu follows the user-friendly approach with all it's pros and
>>  cons. For Linux beginners just the pros of the user-friendly approach
>>  counts, so it makes sense to contribute to Ubuntu, to spread Linux.
> 
> This is a great start to 3 potential posts on http://ubuntustudio.org It
> would be awsome if you could develop these 3 points further and post it
> here!!

1. Ubuntu is the most known major distro
=
It doesn't matter what distrowatch claims, since the number one "Mint" is 
neither user-friendly, nor well supported. If Mint users need help, they send 
requests to the Debian or Ubuntu Mailing list. People who know nothing about 
Linux have heard the Name Ubuntu, a lot of clueless people think that Ubuntu is 
Linux.

2. Ubuntu has got a past and a future
===
Ubuntu isn't just a one-hit wonder. When I started using Linux, Ubuntu wasn't 
released. Ubuntu is around now for 10 years, in the meantime several multimedia 
distros come and go. Even the few focused on audio only, that were based on 
Ubuntu/Debian and could be used with the official Ubuntu or Debian repositories 
failed after a while. Some might still exist, but could cause issues with 
official repositories.

The downside of Ubuntu's future is related to a few facts and rumors, so I only 
will explain why the facts are not much important for a user-friendly approach 
distro. What is considered as Ubuntu spyware are features wanted by many 
clueless users. Facts are several data sharing applications that indeed are a 
PITA for some of us, but for e.g. Windows refugees those usually are not a 
problem at all.

Regarding a poll Arch and Ubuntu are the most used distros by pro-audio users 
and Ubuntu Studio is a flavour that exists for several years, sure it's not 
that old as Ubuntu is, but it already is established. Perhaps CCRMA is 
noteworthy too, but Ubuntu still is more known by the averaged population.

3. Ubuntu follows the user friendly approach with all it's pros and cons
===
The distro I prefer for me is Arch Linux. Arch is not user friendly, but much 
friendlier for my computer usage. If I should recommend a distro to averaged 
computer users, I wouldn't recommend a distro that requires a deep 
understanding of computers, such as Arch does.
The averaged user needs something that doesn't come with a complex learning 
curve and this is what's provided by the Ubuntu policy.

4. Why Ubuntu and not Debian, Suse or another user-friendly major distro?
==
Ubuntu provides free as in beer space and supports so called "flavours". Other 
than Debian or Ubuntu derivatives, a flavour is an official part of Ubuntu, 
this rules out the well known issues caused by derivatives.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:02:27 +0100, set wrote:
>On 2015-10-29 16:57, set wrote:
>> a simple translation from negative sentenses to positive. 
>> I'll get back to you when i have it done!  
>
>Unless of course, you want to do it?

Not today, so please feel free to do it. I will read it and post my 2
Cents here.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 16:57:46 +0100, set wrote:
>Awesome! Ralf! I would very much like to reformulate some of it, with a
>simple translation from negative sentenses to positive. I'll get back
>to you when i have it done!

I wouldn't keep the sentences that way myself ;). Pleas use those words
to write something similar :).

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-27 11:04, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> This is a job primarily for anyone who would be interested in helping
> out with PR & Support, but we don't really have anyone doing that
> specifically as of now. If anyone feels up to it, you may take the
> initiative on this to develop it further.

Todays discussions made my mind bubbly:

Publishing a weekly (bi-weekly) post on ubuntustudio.org debriefing what
is going on in the user- and the devel-sphere of ubuntustudio, could
enhance the transparency, help keep devels and users up to date about
priorities and current tasks, and give a broader audience to the
opportunities to participate.

Creating a few interviews with the people behind the apps we distribute
could also be a great way to gather attention to the collective effort
and software promotional platform that is ubuntustudio.

I'm ready to take the role of dactilographist and compile discussions
that have been held here on the list and on IRC, for the group to
approve before publishing. And together we could craft a few questions
that could be recurrent to software developers and find a few custom
question based on the organization/Person interviewed.

Having content regularly published on the website, would feed our own
existing social network channels with up to date information and hence
incite the social network-users to share it or put up links to the
website articles by themselves.

What do you think?

*Set

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[lukefromdc]

I agree with this. No way in Hell I would set up a machine for my sister with
Debian Unstable, and not one of the Ubuntu flavors are involved in the whole
Unity controversy. The needs of a hacker preferring a rolling release and those
of a Window refugee are nearly opposite oneanother

On 10/29/2015 at 11:44 AM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:
>
>>> The reasons might help to find contributors (and to win more 
>users):
>>> 
>>> - Ubuntu is the most known major distro
>>> - Ubuntu has got a past and a future [1]
>>> - Ubuntu follows the user-friendly approach with all it's pros 
>and
>>>  cons. For Linux beginners just the pros of the user-friendly 
>approach
>>>  counts, so it makes sense to contribute to Ubuntu, to spread 
>Linux.
>> 
>> This is a great start to 3 potential posts on 
>http://ubuntustudio.org It
>> would be awsome if you could develop these 3 points further and 
>post it
>> here!!
>
>1. Ubuntu is the most known major distro
>=
>It doesn't matter what distrowatch claims, since the number one 
>"Mint" is neither user-friendly, nor well supported. If Mint users 
>need help, they send requests to the Debian or Ubuntu Mailing 
>list. People who know nothing about Linux have heard the Name 
>Ubuntu, a lot of clueless people think that Ubuntu is Linux.
>
>2. Ubuntu has got a past and a future
>===
>Ubuntu isn't just a one-hit wonder. When I started using Linux, 
>Ubuntu wasn't released. Ubuntu is around now for 10 years, in the 
>meantime several multimedia distros come and go. Even the few 
>focused on audio only, that were based on Ubuntu/Debian and could 
>be used with the official Ubuntu or Debian repositories failed 
>after a while. Some might still exist, but could cause issues with 
>official repositories.
>
>The downside of Ubuntu's future is related to a few facts and 
>rumors, so I only will explain why the facts are not much 
>important for a user-friendly approach distro. What is considered 
>as Ubuntu spyware are features wanted by many clueless users. 
>Facts are several data sharing applications that indeed are a PITA 
>for some of us, but for e.g. Windows refugees those usually are 
>not a problem at all.
>
>Regarding a poll Arch and Ubuntu are the most used distros by pro-
>audio users and Ubuntu Studio is a flavour that exists for several 
>years, sure it's not that old as Ubuntu is, but it already is 
>established. Perhaps CCRMA is noteworthy too, but Ubuntu still is 
>more known by the averaged population.
>
>3. Ubuntu follows the user friendly approach with all it's pros 
>and cons
>===
>The distro I prefer for me is Arch Linux. Arch is not user 
>friendly, but much friendlier for my computer usage. If I should 
>recommend a distro to averaged computer users, I wouldn't 
>recommend a distro that requires a deep understanding of 
>computers, such as Arch does.
>The averaged user needs something that doesn't come with a complex 
>learning curve and this is what's provided by the Ubuntu policy.
>
>4. Why Ubuntu and not Debian, Suse or another user-friendly major 
>distro?
>==
>Ubuntu provides free as in beer space and supports so called 
>"flavours". Other than Debian or Ubuntu derivatives, a flavour is 
>an official part of Ubuntu, this rules out the well known issues 
>caused by derivatives.
>
>Regards,
>Ralf
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-29 18:22, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> I agree with this. No way in Hell I would set up a machine for my sister with
> Debian Unstable, and not one of the Ubuntu flavors are involved in the whole
> Unity controversy.

Please consider writing a guide on how to use ubuntustudio and what to
think of when engaging in activism and source-protective journalism!
That could also make a great post on http://ubuntustudio.org

*set

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[lukefromdc]

One limiting factor will be that I do not have the bandwidth to download
the latest  .iso's to check installation details so I will have to refer to 
external
postings for things like setting up encryption.

None of the realtime audio issues affect making news audio or video, so  many
of the complex issues that US has had to deal with for the more complex music
creation don't come up. For use cases where they do (e.g political rap) I do not
have the experience to address that part of the picture.

The critical issues are photo editing with removal of EXIF metadata, video
editing with a stable version of Kdenlive, and (easiest) audio editing using
Audacity, which is simpler to use than Ardour and has never had phone
home code in it. Also the now very ugly browser privacy and security issue,
and the severe problems at Mozila that in fact threaten the future of this.

Kdenlive is an issue right now. The 15.08 used in Wily is stable enough
for short projects but becomes buggy as hell on long ones-the release notes
even warn of this. Vivid has only 0.9.10 which is seriously obsolete. so 
probably
I would have to make note of plans at Kdenlive that the 15.12 or 16.04 version
that will presumably be in US 16.04 LTS would be much more stable, as was
the 15.04 version that no version of Ubuntu distributed except via PPA. There
is talk of directly targetting US 16.04 for a seriously debugged version, 
however.

There is also the very complex browser security issue, not one browser is
anywhere near secure by default except for torbrowser. None the less
I will offer tips for securing Firefox, with the caveat that Mozilla has
deprecated the entire extension infrastructure and that updates to the
upcoming Firefox 43 will probably have to be blocked unless the needed
extensions all get signed-and that a still unknown later version will have to
be rejected unless they either delay removing support for the old extensions.
all of them get ported over, or the now proposed compatability layer works
well enough. Probably I will have to recommend that Firefox be pinned at
installation of 15.10 or older and warn that this means no security updates.

Mozilla's current behavior is bad enough to turn the browser security issue
into a "not for amateurs" issue unless all activity is to be over Tor simply
to avoid Firefox's phoning home. In fact, as an "insecure" browser used 
only to get past a captive portal I think GNOME Web and Rekonq are
both safer than a non-expert install of Firefox at this point, simply to 
keep Mozilla from having logs of the connections to the wifi access 
points.

On 10/29/2015 at 2:38 PM, "set"  wrote:
>
>On 2015-10-29 18:22, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>> I agree with this. No way in Hell I would set up a machine for 
>my sister with
>> Debian Unstable, and not one of the Ubuntu flavors are involved 
>in the whole
>> Unity controversy.
>
>Please consider writing a guide on how to use ubuntustudio and 
>what to
>think of when engaging in activism and source-protective 
>journalism!
>That could also make a great post on http://ubuntustudio.org
>
>*set
>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

> On 29.10.2015, at 21:43, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> 
> torbrowser

... is useful for one kind of security, but for another kind of security 
sandboxing done by Chrome is useful. Not updating browsers could be very risky.
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

> On 29.10.2015, at 21:43, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> 
> removal of EXIF metadata

This indeed is useful, but there's other metadata for graphic too. It could be 
useful to make screenshots of graphic, to get rid of all kinds of metadata.
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[lukefromdc]

You are so right about mobile phones and tablets-they are incredibly dangerous 
and thus
I do not own one. Even a dumb phone is kept batteries out unless making a call, 
which
has to be done from places my presence can be admitted to.

When I think of online activism, I am speaking of organizing people in ways 
that lead
to boots on the ground, of posting news reports and communiques afterwards, that
kind of thing. My news reports for the Baltimore Uprising were an example, and 
after
the shit hit the fan there, I feared that the cops would try a general sweep 
for journalists
as happened in another city after a riot. I had to escape and evade early, 
hurredly get
all the clips into encrypted storage and wipe the camera card with random 
numbers.
I also knew where NOT to point the camera, for instance at anyone breaking 
windows.

I have gone out of my way to stay entirely out of the widely circulated hardware
and OS databases kept by the ad networks and subject at any time to subpeona
or simply purchase by any nation's security agencies.  This is the reason for 
the 
extreme amount of browser lockdown. If Firefox gets useless, I suppose I could 
simply add all of Disconnect's blocklist to /etc/hosts and use Rekonq with JS
disabled by default, opening only known safe sites with JS enabled and 
boycotting
any site that mixes necessary with unsafe JS.


On 10/29/2015 at 4:47 PM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:
>
>> On 29.10.2015, at 19:37, set  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-29 18:22, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>>> I agree with this. No way in Hell I would set up a machine for 
>my sister with
>>> Debian Unstable, and not one of the Ubuntu flavors are involved 
>in the whole
>>> Unity controversy.
>> 
>> Please consider writing a guide on how to use ubuntustudio and 
>what to
>> think of when engaging in activism and source-protective 
>journalism!
>> That could also make a great post on http://ubuntustudio.org
>
>Perhaps activism shouldn't be mentioned regarding legal issues. 
>"Activism" in context of computers has much to do with 
>"Distributed Denial of Servic", "Guerilla Open Access Manifesto" 
>and some kind of hacktivism even is considered as being an issue 
>for free journalism.
>
>The averaged hacktivist doesn't need hints and the best hint for 
>unexperienced computer users such as journalists, is not to use a 
>computer for journalism at all and not to own a mobile or tablet 
>PC.
>
>It might be useful to clarify some issues with browsers, e.g. 
>problems with auto-completion of search engines, safe browsing, 
>but also when a sandbox is useful or not. Why wrong usage of 
>encryption and signing is more dangerous, then being aware that 
>data isn't safe. Even the man page of "shred" informs that the 
>default file system used by Ubuntu Studio renders "shred" useless. 
>Enabling popcon and stuf like this shouldn't be done.
>
>A high level of security and a user-friendly OOTB average desktop 
>experience are mutually exclusive.
>
>Regards,
>Ralf


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

> On 29.10.2015, at 19:37, set  wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-10-29 18:22, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>> I agree with this. No way in Hell I would set up a machine for my sister with
>> Debian Unstable, and not one of the Ubuntu flavors are involved in the whole
>> Unity controversy.
> 
> Please consider writing a guide on how to use ubuntustudio and what to
> think of when engaging in activism and source-protective journalism!
> That could also make a great post on http://ubuntustudio.org

Perhaps activism shouldn't be mentioned regarding legal issues. "Activism" in 
context of computers has much to do with "Distributed Denial of Servic", 
"Guerilla Open Access Manifesto" and some kind of hacktivism even is considered 
as being an issue for free journalism.

The averaged hacktivist doesn't need hints and the best hint for unexperienced 
computer users such as journalists, is not to use a computer for journalism at 
all and not to own a mobile or tablet PC.

It might be useful to clarify some issues with browsers, e.g. problems with 
auto-completion of search engines, safe browsing, but also when a sandbox is 
useful or not. Why wrong usage of encryption and signing is more dangerous, 
then being aware that data isn't safe. Even the man page of "shred" informs 
that the default file system used by Ubuntu Studio renders "shred" useless. 
Enabling popcon and stuf like this shouldn't be done.

A high level of security and a user-friendly OOTB average desktop experience 
are mutually exclusive.

Regards,
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[lukefromdc]

Simplest approach: US on a non-networked, encrypted desktop to make
media and strip metadata that can identify cameras, plus a laptop used
with TAILS to handle posting the materal from offsite connections.

On 10/29/2015 at 4:47 PM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:
>
>> On 29.10.2015, at 19:37, set  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-29 18:22, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>>> I agree with this. No way in Hell I would set up a machine for 
>my sister with
>>> Debian Unstable, and not one of the Ubuntu flavors are involved 
>in the whole
>>> Unity controversy.
>> 
>> Please consider writing a guide on how to use ubuntustudio and 
>what to
>> think of when engaging in activism and source-protective 
>journalism!
>> That could also make a great post on http://ubuntustudio.org
>
>Perhaps activism shouldn't be mentioned regarding legal issues. 
>"Activism" in context of computers has much to do with 
>"Distributed Denial of Servic", "Guerilla Open Access Manifesto" 
>and some kind of hacktivism even is considered as being an issue 
>for free journalism.
>
>The averaged hacktivist doesn't need hints and the best hint for 
>unexperienced computer users such as journalists, is not to use a 
>computer for journalism at all and not to own a mobile or tablet 
>PC.
>
>It might be useful to clarify some issues with browsers, e.g. 
>problems with auto-completion of search engines, safe browsing, 
>but also when a sandbox is useful or not. Why wrong usage of 
>encryption and signing is more dangerous, then being aware that 
>data isn't safe. Even the man page of "shred" informs that the 
>default file system used by Ubuntu Studio renders "shred" useless. 
>Enabling popcon and stuf like this shouldn't be done.
>
>A high level of security and a user-friendly OOTB average desktop 
>experience are mutually exclusive.
>
>Regards,
>Ralf


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[lukefromdc]

An update of Firefox that diabled NoScript or Canvasblocker would make the 
browser
no longer usable for security work. If the lack of updates is unsafe than NO 
version
of Firefox would remain useful. 

On 10/29/2015 at 5:02 PM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:
>
>> On 29.10.2015, at 21:43, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> torbrowser
>
>... is useful for one kind of security, but for another kind of 
>security sandboxing done by Chrome is useful. Not updating 
>browsers could be very risky.
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-29 23:13, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> The user can not simply use a distro to be secure, the user still needs
> to learn how to use the distro.

In terms of PR & Support, i think this is the only thing ubuntustudio
really needs to be explaining.

However, A good selection of basic but sourced documentation, is an
excellent addition to the PR & Support tool-set.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-28 23:52, set wrote:
> blablabla zombr ands brains...

Not sure i came through correct yesterday. My apologies. The bottom-line
i feel that i left out is that, i will ask around my entourage. I don't
really know how to recruit engage people in any other form than Away
>From Keyboard. I will also try to think about content suited for the
website to be linked/posted on socialnetworks.

I personally don't feel comfortable with socialnetworks, but i see why
it is necessary to have a presence there and encourage anyone who using
them to give a bump for the ubuntustudio-cause whenever possible!

*set

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Jordan Vashey]

I can get a Facebook page going with some crazy graphics haha

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2015, at 05:31, set  wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-10-28 23:52, set wrote:
>> blablabla zombr ands brains...
> 
> Not sure i came through correct yesterday. My apologies. The bottom-line
> i feel that i left out is that, i will ask around my entourage. I don't
> really know how to recruit engage people in any other form than Away
> From Keyboard. I will also try to think about content suited for the
> website to be linked/posted on socialnetworks.
> 
> I personally don't feel comfortable with socialnetworks, but i see why
> it is necessary to have a presence there and encourage anyone who using
> them to give a bump for the ubuntustudio-cause whenever possible!
> 
> *set
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-29 11:09, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> I tested Krita as a replacement for GIMP. Krita is completely unusable.
> It's missing features and the performance is much to slow.

Strange, i use it very much and never had to complain about anything. I
actually have got a design studio in barcelona to migrate to it from
adobe tools. But it is important to know krita is not a substitute to
gimp. It's really made for digital painting/drawing. Althou the latest
version do come with text tools.

I agree that there shouldn't be a HUGE focus on socialmedia, and that
socialnetwork have an ethic dilemma attatched to them, but i think there
might be grey zones we can take advantage of, and that those who want to
use SN for PR work related to ubuntustudio should feel wellcome to
brainstorm with everybody about the strategy of using these SocialNetworks.


*Set


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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:31:17 +0100, set wrote:
>I personally don't feel comfortable with socialnetworks, but i see why
>it is necessary to have a presence there and encourage anyone who using
>them to give a bump for the ubuntustudio-cause whenever possible!

Ubuntu is as known as Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Micky Mouse, Coca~Cola,
McDonalds, Microsoft and Apple. Are there plans to make Ubuntu Studio
more known than Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Micky Mouse, Coca~Cola,
McDonalds, Microsoft and Apple? If so, for what purpose?

What people who already know Ubuntu do not know, is

  that Linux is not the same as Ubuntu

  that Ubuntu provides "flavours"

  that Ubuntu Studio is a flavour

  that derivatives are not Ubuntu flavours

To clarify this issues would be the best promotion for Ubuntu Studio,
much better than messing up all available locations with a permanent
marker.

There's another issue that needs more explanation, but it's not needed
for Ubuntu flavour PR, OTOH it's related to PR. Many users misunderstand
what "LTS" stands for. Many users expect the opposite of what is
provided by a "LTS".

My POV is that good PR isn't done by aggressive promotion and deals
with the devil. Good PR is done by selecting locations for PR and by
relying on the reputation of Ubuntu. Explain that there are Ubuntu
flavours (one of them is Ubuntu Studio) and explain that some Ubuntu
maintainers and users are against Ubuntu spyware.

Since Ubuntu is known as much as Coca~Cola and Co, it also gets bad
press. Transparency, clarification and explanation based on truth are
the best PR, assumed the target isn't the same as that of Micky Mouse,
Coca~Cola, McDonalds, Microsoft and Apple. Ubuntu Studio also shouldn't
have the same target as PR for Jesus Christ and Mohammed has got,
unfortunately there already is too much Linux audio faith.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 05:36:11 -0400, Jordan Vashey wrote:
>I can get a Facebook page going with some crazy graphics haha

Is it meant ironically?

https://www.facebook.com/Ubuntustudio

More than one official location for each social network you want to use
is enough, several official locations in one social network is
counterproductive.

There's nothing wrong with fishing for contributors.

What are contributors?

If you answered this question, you perhaps consider to send a request
to Ubuntu devel discuss, Ubuntu users, Linux audio developers, Linux
audio users etc., potential contributors most likely are aware about
the Ubuntu flavours, so perhaps explaining what an Ubuntu flavour is
might be not needed, at least not when sending requests to devel lists
and forums, but it doesn't harm to clarify this when sending requests
to user lists and forums.

Does anybody expect to find contributors by social network presence?

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PublicRelationsDocumentation

So "support" in this context isn't "support" in the sense of helping
users to fix issues with Linux and user space?!

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-29 12:06, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> Does anybody expect to find contributors by social network presence?

I sure have found many motivated and creative friends thru IRC and
billboards. Heck! I met you Ralf, on the very social public mailing list
for Linux Audio Users :)

Misunderstand me right, i get your point Ralf. And that is also why in
my POV the best place to put down effort for PR is the ubuntustudio
website. From there on, it can be syndicated automagicaly to the
facegoogle twitt pages, and further spread by individuals where ever
they feel it is right to do so. SocialNetworks should be satellites
gathering traffic to the website, not the other way around.

However, I want to post a call for contributors on a (to me) familiar
billboard, what should imperatively come through in such a call?

*set

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 12:14:19 +0100, Jimmy Sjölund wrote:
>There would be no Ubuntu Studio without social networks.

Ubuntu is a major distro and as for many other major distros too, a
multimedia port in spite of itself grow up. I doubt that the big social
networks are useful for anything good on this planet. IMO the big
social networks are sandboxes for anything that doesn't fit to a
good forum. There are forums for every domain.

It's more useful to be present in forums and mailing lists that are
related to computers and/or multimedia.

The big social networks collect and share data for marketing of
big companies and for misuse by governments, IOW for organisations that
are against the spirit of transparency.

I didn't search for crap on Facebook and Co, I just used a search
engine to search for Facebook and Co in generell. All hits linked to
crap.

Black and white opinions about world affairs and scatology even when
talking about banalities, e.g. a potato in a potato chips bag is all
search engines will link to, resp. it's listed on top of the social
networks by them self.

That's the homepage of reddit. I did not pick some odd exception, I
just clicked on the links provided there: https://www.reddit.com/

There are no serious links I missed, there's crap only.

Public relation on such a forum is like public relation written with a
permanent marker under the blue light of a railway station toilet.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Jimmy Sjölund]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Ralf Mardorf 
wrote:

>
> Regarding social networks my guess is, that those are used by a
> majority of people who don't use a computer as a meaningful tool.
>
> Does Ubuntu Studio need a target group of idiots and xenophobes?
>
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/3qibqd/i_found_a_whole_potato_in_my_bag_of_chips/
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/3qfuy3/i_got_a_political_fortune_cookie_yesterday/
> https://www.facebook.com/RefugeesWellcome
>
> Word-of-mouth recommendation, if somebody is asking for a tool in the
> real world, IMO the the only good "public relation".
>
>
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning? Bringing up at couple of strange
threads from reddit doesn't mean everyone reading other things there are
idiots. Facebook has been and still is an important tool for refugees and
volunteers. Myself, I'm very much involved in Refugees Welcome which is the
main reason I don't have time for Ubuntu Studio at the moment. The networks
I have connected with through Facebook are no idiots or don't know how to
use a computer and the internet as a tool. For many that is the main tool
to even navigate through Europe.

Social media and networks IMHO are excellent if you use them right.
Word-by-mouth is also a great tool, but word-by-mouth on the internet has a
wider and faster spread and can work as great complement to in person
recommendations. There would be no Ubuntu Studio without social networks.
In that case it would only be a local distro a bunch of friends put
together.

/Jimmy
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Finn Solly]

ok


2015-10-27 20:41 GMT+01:00 set :

> On 2015-10-27 11:04, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> > Where else?
> reddit?
>
> I think we should publish more often on the ubuntustudio-website, and
> have those articles/that content be syndicated to all the
> social-networks automagicaly with rss. But in general, make more noise
> about what is going on in ubuntustudio metaverse, software updates,
> work-flow think-thank, team-lead's latest announcement! etc...
>
> To make our channels lively maybe a good way to gather living beings :)..?
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[lukefromdc]

The commercial. ad-supported social networks are so dangerous that I 
not only do not use them but actually block both Google and facebook
in /etc/hosts. I've even asked people I work with not to post photos 
containing me to Facebook due to their facial recognition database.

It would seem to be that any special-purpose distro would be actively
sought out using whatever search engine a user or contributor normally
relied on.

On 10/28/2015 at 8:31 AM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:
>
>On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 12:14:19 +0100, Jimmy Sjölund wrote:
>>There would be no Ubuntu Studio without social networks.
>
>Ubuntu is a major distro and as for many other major distros too, a
>multimedia port in spite of itself grow up. I doubt that the big 
>social
>networks are useful for anything good on this planet. IMO the big
>social networks are sandboxes for anything that doesn't fit to a
>good forum. There are forums for every domain.
>
>It's more useful to be present in forums and mailing lists that are
>related to computers and/or multimedia.
>
>The big social networks collect and share data for marketing of
>big companies and for misuse by governments, IOW for organisations 
>that
>are against the spirit of transparency.
>
>I didn't search for crap on Facebook and Co, I just used a search
>engine to search for Facebook and Co in generell. All hits linked 
>to
>crap.
>
>Black and white opinions about world affairs and scatology even 
>when
>talking about banalities, e.g. a potato in a potato chips bag is 
>all
>search engines will link to, resp. it's listed on top of the social
>networks by them self.
>
>That's the homepage of reddit. I did not pick some odd exception, I
>just clicked on the links provided there: https://www.reddit.com/
>
>There are no serious links I missed, there's crap only.
>
>Public relation on such a forum is like public relation written 
>with a
>permanent marker under the blue light of a railway station toilet.
>
>Regards,
>Ralf
>
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-28 18:29, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:
> On 10/28/2015 at 8:31 AM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 12:14:19 +0100, Jimmy Sjölund wrote:

ye.. well. i moved my list stuff from gmail to skrcr~/ as you may have
noticed. :D

Reddit is what it is: a network FULL of humans. It's very much like IRC
on a website with vote functionality and extensive public-archive. I
agree much with you Ralf, however, the social network thing is absurd
without content to back it up. It is necessary to have things to make
noise about, to link to, to show and share! Latest iso is twice a year!
But matter of fact, ubuntustudio do has plenty of things to make noise
about, and it should! Flatter all the awesome software that are packaged
for example! But it needs to be formated in a sweet-sexy way for the
myface space zombr from .IO to look for ubuntustudio-brains instead of
bigcorp-brains! :)


*Set

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

To the best of my knowledge, reddit is just as universal as any other
big social site. Citing wikipedia:

"Reddit (/ˈrɛdɪt/)[5] is an entertainment, social networking, and news
website where registered community members can submit content, such as
text posts or direct links, making it essentially an online bulletin
board system."

There are plenty of problems that one would like to have solved when it
comes to technology, democracy, economy, and so forth. But, in order to
reach out to anyone, you need to be visible somehow, and Ubuntu IMO is a
very visible system, one that is less strict with these things than
other organizations, perhaps for the greater good. It's a step into the
right direction, anyway, no?

So, I would not like to use any services that are not kosher, so to
speak. And to me reddit seems kosher enough. Now, if someone disagrees,
I'd like to see some real proof of why it is not. This thread is about
how to reach possible contributors, so quite a narrow subject. Let's try
to stick to that, ok?

I'm adding reddit to the list, for now. Where else can we look for
contributors? What multimedia specific sites are there? I think we
probably have audio well covered. How about video and graphics?

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-29 00:04, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> How about video and graphics?

http://blenderartists.org/forum/
https://forum.kde.org/viewforum.php?f=136
http://gimpforums.com/
http://www.inkscapeforum.com/
http://forums.scribus.net/

Are probably good places. :)

*Set

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015, at 08:41 PM, set wrote:
> On 2015-10-27 11:04, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> > Where else?
> reddit?
> 

I have very little experience with reddit, so I wouldn't know where to
start. How would we publish stuff in reddit?

> I think we should publish more often on the ubuntustudio-website, and
> have those articles/that content be syndicated to all the
> social-networks automagicaly with rss. But in general, make more noise
> about what is going on in ubuntustudio metaverse, software updates,
> work-flow think-thank, team-lead's latest announcement! etc...
> 

I believe we have a plugin installed in our WP now, which makes it
possible to post to several places simultaneously. And, yes, we should
publish stuff more often, but to do that, we need someone who is willing
to work with this. I won't have the time to do anything beyond
publishing new releases, basically.

> To make our channels lively maybe a good way to gather living beings
> :)..?
> 
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:58:18 +0100, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
>On Tue, Oct 27, 2015, at 08:41 PM, set wrote:
>> On 2015-10-27 11:04, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:  
>> > Where else?  
>> reddit?
>>   
>
>I have very little experience with reddit, so I wouldn't know where to
>start. How would we publish stuff in reddit?

Regarding social networks my guess is, that those are used by a
majority of people who don't use a computer as a meaningful tool.

Does Ubuntu Studio need a target group of idiots and xenophobes?

https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/3qibqd/i_found_a_whole_potato_in_my_bag_of_chips/
https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/3qfuy3/i_got_a_political_fortune_cookie_yesterday/
https://www.facebook.com/RefugeesWellcome

Word-of-mouth recommendation, if somebody is asking for a tool in the
real world, IMO the the only good "public relation".

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[ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

This is a job primarily for anyone who would be interested in helping
out with PR & Support, but we don't really have anyone doing that
specifically as of now. If anyone feels up to it, you may take the
initiative on this to develop it further.

The pages dealing with PR and Support are found here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PublicRelationsDocumentation

I'd like to assemble some sort of list of places, or means in which to
try get people involved in this project. Right now, we are only using
very few channels, and that isn't working well enough, so better to
extend that.

First off, we are using our own channels at:

* Website
* Social sites (google, facebook, twitter)

Which other places can we use for communicating with potential
contributors (actually, we may use them for other things as well, like
announcements, and so forth)?
I'm thinking in most cases it needs to be somehow relevant to Ubuntu
Studio, or chances to find someone is very sparse. So, anything that
includes FLOSS multimedia production.

These are some places I'd like to increase our presence at:

* ubuntuforums.org
* GNU social (if there is something operational - not really sure)
* diaspora (one of the major hubs)
* linux audio mail lists
* linuxmusicians.com

Where else?

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Kaj Ailomaa]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015, at 01:05 PM, Jordan Vashey wrote:
> Should create an IRC. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 

We have our IRC channels at freenode, and you're welcome to join them.
You can read more here
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/IRC

But, are you suggesting we try find contributors on IRC? IMO, that's not
the easiest way to reach a large amount of users. There are a few
multimedia specific channels, but people don't tend to read everything
that happens on them, and I would not like to spam them either, so to
speak.

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[Jordan Vashey]

Should create an IRC. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2015, at 06:04, Kaj Ailomaa  wrote:
> 
> This is a job primarily for anyone who would be interested in helping
> out with PR & Support, but we don't really have anyone doing that
> specifically as of now. If anyone feels up to it, you may take the
> initiative on this to develop it further.
> 
> The pages dealing with PR and Support are found here:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PublicRelationsDocumentation
> 
> I'd like to assemble some sort of list of places, or means in which to
> try get people involved in this project. Right now, we are only using
> very few channels, and that isn't working well enough, so better to
> extend that.
> 
> First off, we are using our own channels at:
> 
> * Website
> * Social sites (google, facebook, twitter)
> 
> Which other places can we use for communicating with potential
> contributors (actually, we may use them for other things as well, like
> announcements, and so forth)?
> I'm thinking in most cases it needs to be somehow relevant to Ubuntu
> Studio, or chances to find someone is very sparse. So, anything that
> includes FLOSS multimedia production.
> 
> These are some places I'd like to increase our presence at:
> 
> * ubuntuforums.org
> * GNU social (if there is something operational - not really sure)
> * diaspora (one of the major hubs)
> * linux audio mail lists
> * linuxmusicians.com
> 
> Where else?
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] PR & Support: Where to fish for contributors?

[set]

On 2015-10-27 11:04, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:
> Where else?
reddit?

I think we should publish more often on the ubuntustudio-website, and
have those articles/that content be syndicated to all the
social-networks automagicaly with rss. But in general, make more noise
about what is going on in ubuntustudio metaverse, software updates,
work-flow think-thank, team-lead's latest announcement! etc...

To make our channels lively maybe a good way to gather living beings :)..?


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