Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:58:08 -0800 (PST), Len Ovens wrote:
>> On 11/25/2015 at 3:38 PM, "Ralf Mardorf" wrote:  
>>> I do most things with pluma and nano. There are other editors I
>>> like, butto replace gedit IMO pluma is the best editor.  
>
>Count me odd, but for terminal I use joe unless nano is all there is.

Hi Len :)

Really? Ctrl+K D to save? What is K D for? "K" for
"kauzig/komisch" (German words for "odd") and "D" for "disk"?

For nano it's Ctrl+O and O is for output, since the common command
line abbreviations are "o" or "of" for output (file) and "i" or "if" for
input (file).

Regards,
Ralf

-- 
http://www.grundgesetz-gratis.de/

-- 
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[Kaj Ailomaa]

Since we have decided to go towards being desktop agnostic already for
more than a year, I don't see why we should bother with replacing text
editors.
We should sync with Xubuntu, and if there are problems, we should
cooperate with Xubuntu devs.

But, to discuss gedit anyway. As it seems, things are not in sync yet,
but it could very well be that certain things work well in Gnome, but
not in XFCE. Might be worth to check out. And, if there truly are
problems with some applications, again, let's try to work with Xubuntu
devs, or even Gnome devs to get stuff like that sorted out.

-- 
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[Len Ovens]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015, Ralf Mardorf wrote:


On Wed, 25 Nov 2015 13:58:08 -0800 (PST), Len Ovens wrote:

On 11/25/2015 at 3:38 PM, "Ralf Mardorf" wrote:

I do most things with pluma and nano. There are other editors I
like, butto replace gedit IMO pluma is the best editor.


Count me odd, but for terminal I use joe unless nano is all there is.


Really? Ctrl+K D to save? What is K D for? "K" for
"kauzig/komisch" (German words for "odd") and "D" for "disk"?


Probably Kommand ;)


For nano it's Ctrl+O and O is for output, since the common command
line abbreviations are "o" or "of" for output (file) and "i" or "if" for
input (file).


I learned on wordstar way back, and these commands used to be very common. 
I find nano's methods of dealing with block selections less than good. joe 
allows selecting part of a line and copying/cutting. Nano just cuts, so to 
copy I have to cut-> paste->move->paste. And it only cuts whole lines 
(that I can see).


Joe also colour codes things based on the programming language in the file 
which is nice. It does have some trouble dealing with white space the 
right way... or maybe I just need to configure it right.


I would probably be better learning one of the more common dev tools like 
emacs. But the GUI in geany seems to do it all right and has build 
commands and can keep track of whole projects. Clicking on build errors 
opens the right file and puts the cursor at the offending line.


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net


--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[Len Ovens]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:


Since we have decided to go towards being desktop agnostic already for
more than a year, I don't see why we should bother with replacing text
editors.
We should sync with Xubuntu, and if there are problems, we should
cooperate with Xubuntu devs.


What it comes down to is: do we want to worry about the editor anyway? 
Sync with xubuntu means to use mousepad and let the user install anything 
more complex. I have no problem with that. It seems in the discusion so 
far, people already install their favourite editor if gedit is there or 
not. Including at least one GUI and one text editer of some kind makes 
sense.


--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net


--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:04:10 -0800 (PST), Len Ovens wrote:
>Joe also colour codes things based on the programming language in the
>file which is nice. It does have some trouble dealing with white space
>the right way... or maybe I just need to configure it right.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat -n ~/.nanorc | tail -n12
 6  syntax "unidark" 
"(\.([jrs]html?|sgml?|xml|ajs|rdf|xslt?|log|conf|config|cfg|cnf|rc|lst|list|defs|ini|desktop|mime|types|preset|cache|seat|service|htaccess)$|(^|/)(\w*PKGBUILD|.jwmrc|.nanorc|crontab|mirrorlist|group|hosts|passwd|rpc|netconfig|shadow|fstab|inittab|inputrc|protocols|sudoers|sudoers.tmp)$|conf.d/|.config/)"
 7  header "^#!.*/(da|ba|z|k|pdk)?sh[-0-9_]*"
 8  icolor brightgreen "^[0-9A-Z_]+\(\)"
 9  color brightgreen 
"\<(case|do|done|elif|else|esac|exit|fi|for|function|if|in|local|read|return|select|shift|then|time|until|while)\>"
10  color brightgreen "(\{|\}|\(|\)|\;|\]|\[|`|\\|\$|<|>|!|=|&|\|)"
11  color brightgreen "-[Ldefgruwx]\>"
12  color brightgreen "-(eq|ne|gt|lt|ge|le|s|n|z)\>"
13  color brightmagenta 
"\<(cat|cd|chmod|chown|cp|echo|env|export|grep|install|let|ln|make|mkdir|mv|rm|sed|set|tar|touch|umask|unset)\>"
14  icolor brightred "\$\{?[0-9A-Z_!@#$*?-]+\}?"
15  color brightcyan "(^|[[:space:]])#.*$"
16  color brightyellow ""(\\.|[^"])*"" "'(\\.|[^'])*'"
17  color ,blue "[[:space:]]+$"

IIRC nano allows colour profiles, but I just use the above profile and 
assumed I need more flexible syntax highlighting and copy, paste etc. I
use a GUI editor. There's no good reason for me to do this with a command
line editor. Often I write Linux shell scripts on my iPad, with no synthax 
highlighting
at all and no way to test the script, but still with the comfort of a GUI.
-- 
http://www.grundgesetz-gratis.de/

-- 
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[flocculant]

On 25/11/15 19:25, Len Ovens wrote:


Gedit seems to have gone wonky... it is not broken, but for some 
reason the devs have hard coded stuff into it that should be left for 
the window manager/theme engine. When I opened up gedit in 16.04 it 
has an inch wide grey "picture frame" around it and no wm decorations. 
It makes it's own decorations instead which include some menu options 
as well (Open/Save). It looks completely out of place on the xfce 
desktop. xubuntu uses mousepad which is a nice lite editor, but lacks 
many features people might like. I found medit which almost looks like 
a clone of the way gedit used to be. I would recomend switching them 
out or using mousepad and leave the choice of editor to the user.


If some people could check this out on the 1604 iso and we can see if 
we are in agreement on which way to go. The two editors require little 
in the way of depends. Things like kate pull in more.



--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net



gedit and many other gtk3 things are broken atm

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1518661


at the least


--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[Ralf Mardorf]

There was a post a few days ago on another list. The version of Gedit for  
15.10 is not in sync with the version of the GNOME packages. Perhaps it's  
the same for the Ubuntu development release.


Until now I didn't use pluma on Ubuntu, but I strongly recommend to take a  
look at it, it's my most used GUI editor.


I do most things with pluma and nano. There are other editors I like, but  
to replace gedit IMO pluma is the best editor.


--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[lukefromdc]

One other point: compiz still has lots of issues with client-side decorated
apps like Gedit, for users of Unity or MATE/compiz. Although a bug report
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1436553
claims it is fixed, only some parts of the problem were fixed, In gtk versions
3.16 or higher, compiz fails to tell GTK that it is in fact compositing and GTK
falls back to a "fallback mode" without transparency support for things like
rounded corners on CSD decorations. Also, a wide black border results if the
theme sets a non-zero margin, but a zero margin means no resize. There are
some workarounds for this, but they do not work in GTK3.19 so far as I can
tell.

Ubuntu nornally patches CSD apps to use traditional server side decoration, 
thus avoiding this on apps maintained by Ubuntu.

On 11/25/2015 at 4:14 PM, "Len Ovens"  wrote:
>
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, floccul...@gmx.co.uk wrote:
>
>> On 25/11/15 19:25, Len Ovens wrote:
>>> 
>>> Gedit seems to have gone wonky... it is not broken, but for 
>some reason the 
>>> devs have hard coded stuff into it that should be left for the 
>window 
>>> manager/theme engine. When I opened up gedit in 16.04 it has an 
>inch wide 
>>> grey "picture frame" around it and no wm decorations. It makes 
>it's own 
>>> 
>> gedit and many other gtk3 things are broken atm
>>
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1518661
>
>So the grey frame will probably be fixed, the missmatched window 
>decorations probably not. GTK3 is ugly. (at least right now) I can 
>see why 
>people are jumping off the gtk wagon.
>
>
>--
>Len Ovens
>www.ovenwerks.net
>
>
>-- 
>ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
>ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
>https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel


-- 
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[Len Ovens]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote:


Ubuntu has stayed with gedit 3.10 all the way through using parts of GNOME 3.16
for good reason. Later versions are much harder to use, GNOME has become
known for designing only around one particular workflow concept.
Pluma now builds
quite well with gtk3 or with gtk2 if the newly released 1.12 version is used.
A very big change is on the horizon with gtk3.20, Ubuntu 16.04 will miss it by 
using
gtk3.18 assuming current patterns continue, but 16.10 will presumably use 
Gtk3.20.

GTK 3.20 looks to me like the biggest change since the 2.32 to 3.0 jump, as the
theming system is totally revised, I've been working for two days to update my 
theme
and I am not done yet.


So the idea that gedit is getting worse even without gtk3 changes is also 
something to look at.



On 11/25/2015 at 3:38 PM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:

Until now I didn't use pluma on Ubuntu, but I strongly recommend
to take a
look at it, it's my most used GUI editor.


That is two people who think pluma would be a good choice. I am ok with 
it. I don't like the default wrap on even when the file being edited is 
code, but I will probably be using geany's editor for most of that anyway.


I like medit's "diff to disk" tool (never seen that before), but I don't 
know that I would use it much if at all.


The reality is, I don't like what I am seeing with gedit. I don't know 
what most users need/want and what is easy for newbys to use/understand. I 
would like to include the editor that gives new users the best experience 
with the least surprises without being frustrating to the old user who 
wants to edit system files easily. If mousepad can do that, anything more 
can be user choice. But if mousepad makes Studio seem incomplete the we 
need something more.



I do most things with pluma and nano. There are other editors I
like, but
to replace gedit IMO pluma is the best editor.


Count me odd, but for terminal I use joe unless nano is all there is.

--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net


--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[lukefromdc]

Ubuntu has stayed with gedit 3.10 all the way through using parts of GNOME 3.16
for good reason. Later versions are much harder to use, GNOME has become
known for designing only around one particular workflow concept. Pluma now 
builds
quite well with gtk3 or with gtk2 if the newly released 1.12 version is used.

Best of all, a lot of the really useful things and bugfixes that GNOME does do 
get
backported into MATE apps such as Pluma. I've spent a lot of time working with
MATE right now, generally running everything from git master so I see this up 
close.

A very big change is on the horizon with gtk3.20, Ubuntu 16.04 will miss it by 
using
gtk3.18 assuming current patterns continue, but 16.10 will presumably use 
Gtk3.20.

GTK 3.20 looks to me like the biggest change since the 2.32 to 3.0 jump, as the 
theming system is totally revised, I've been working for two days to update my 
theme
and I am not done yet. 

https://blogs.gnome.org/mclasen/2015/11/20/a-gtk-update/

Most (but NOT all) of the themeing is a matter of this sort of change to support
"css nodes" which differ from the previous selectors in their names and in the 
fact that an application developer can attach them to custom widgets instead
of using the traditiional custom widget names that give an #mywidget selector.

In addition, GTK seems to use style classes a lot less internally, applying 
them to 
a few widgets but not most of them. Ones added to application code still work.

So. the selector  "GtkMenu .menuitem" becomes "menu menuitem" and then works
mostly like before.  The ".view" selector is one of the few style classes I've 
found so
far that still works from GTK's own code. Also some pseudoclasses change, so 
that

" .mywidget .mywidgetchild.vertical" may have to be written as 
"mywidget.vertical mywidgetchild"

Much more to this, I've just started digging into it. There are also advantages 
to this
code, notably that windows and frames defined by a widget are now much easier to
work with, so that if "mywidget" makes it's own window or frame for itself, 
using 

"mywidget.window" or "mywidget.frame" works in many cases. If the application 
packs
the widget into a frame that won't work. Still not sure about all the details 
but this is what
I am finding so far.




On 11/25/2015 at 3:38 PM, "Ralf Mardorf"  wrote:
>
>There was a post a few days ago on another list. The version of 
>Gedit for  
>15.10 is not in sync with the version of the GNOME packages. 
>Perhaps it's  
>the same for the Ubuntu development release.
>
>Until now I didn't use pluma on Ubuntu, but I strongly recommend 
>to take a  
>look at it, it's my most used GUI editor.
>
>I do most things with pluma and nano. There are other editors I 
>like, but  
>to replace gedit IMO pluma is the best editor.
>
>-- 
>ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
>ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
>https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel


-- 
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Gedit

[Len Ovens]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, floccul...@gmx.co.uk wrote:


On 25/11/15 19:25, Len Ovens wrote:


Gedit seems to have gone wonky... it is not broken, but for some reason the 
devs have hard coded stuff into it that should be left for the window 
manager/theme engine. When I opened up gedit in 16.04 it has an inch wide 
grey "picture frame" around it and no wm decorations. It makes it's own 


gedit and many other gtk3 things are broken atm

https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1518661


So the grey frame will probably be fixed, the missmatched window 
decorations probably not. GTK3 is ugly. (at least right now) I can see why 
people are jumping off the gtk wagon.



--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net


--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel