Re: Tasks, Workflows, and Packages for Ubuntu Studio Natty
On 10/30/2010 07:09 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: Am 29.10.2010 23:36, schrieb Scott Lavender: Hello again. For those who are interesting, and I would hope most would be, you can find the task and workflow wiki page at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows I have added a workflow for video-postproduction. Comments welcome :-) All users are encouraging to peruse this page and add their contributions! We only ask that if you have a differing workflow that one that is already extant, please add yours as an alternative and do not remove the other. Before going further I want to explain more about what I mean when I use the term package set. This term is a reference to the applications installed by default with Ubuntu Studio. These packages are NOT being removed from the archives. You can always install these packages at any time, by any method of choice. We are only discussing the inclusion of these package on the Ubuntu Studio ISO. Right. Now that we have that out of the way, I want to inform you how the currently installed package set will change for Natty. These will be new packages (or applications) installed by default when installing Ubuntu Studio: * guitarix * hydrogen-drumkits * lashd * mscore (to replaces denemo and lilypond) * phasex * qtractor (to replace seq24) Qtractor is by no means a replacement for seq24. It is just a completely different application. Seq24 is a pattern-oriented sequencer taht can be used for live-performance in ways that qtractor cannot be used and is not intended to be used. I would consider it a big mistake to remove Seq24. To replace it with qtractor would be like replacing a helicopter with an Airbus. Same here, Qtractor is a multi-track recorder/MIDI composition tool while Seq24 is a pattern based sequencer. Some of the most amazing stuff made on GNU/Linux is done with Seq24. * specimen * whysynth * yoshimi (to replace zynaddsubfx) These are packages (or applications) that are currently included with Ubuntu Studio, but will no longer be: * aconnectgui * audacity I find this logical since Audacity does not fit very well into Jack. Still I wonder what would be the replacement for it (Ardour for more sophisticated waveediting and Mhawaveedit for simle tasks could be a sane recommendation for Audacity-users I guess. It really is a shame Rezound isn't actively being developed/maintained anymore. And the Audacity team should really take a look at implementing direct JACK support instead of using PortAudio. * beast * bitscope * bristol * csound * denemo (replaced by mscore) * freebirth * freqtweak * genpo * jackeq * jacktools * jdelay * lillypond (replaced by mscore) * lmms LMMS has a unique concept in terms of usage and workflow that is *not* doubled by qtractor. I'd recommend to keep it. Same here too. LMMS aims at being an all-in-one solution which makes it stand out and also very usable for someone coming from another platform where monolithic apps are more widespread. * mixxx * muse * qamix * seq24 (replaced by qtractor) see above - I strongly recommend to keep Seq24. And why Mixxx? It is one of the best DJ mixer apps available, if not the best. * terminatorx * timemachine Many like timemachine and will be disappointed not to find it automatically installed. Though I would not consider it essential. best regs HZN/berlin * timidity * tk707 * xwax * zynaddsubfx Again, the goal is to make Ubuntu Studio more effective and proficient, in essence more useful. Users want to accomplish a task (e.g. mix a song), not just run an application. The current status of the package set ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/PackageSelectionDevelopment) was developed to assist users accomplish tasks. If an application is listed to no longer be included with Ubuntu Studio but you want it to be, then please identify a task that requires it and develop a workflow at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows This is your chance to directly influence which applications are included with Ubuntu Studio. ScottL Best, Jeremy -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
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Re: Tasks, Workflows, and Packages for Ubuntu Studio Natty
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 05:47:34AM EDT, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: It really is a shame Rezound isn't actively being developed/maintained anymore. And the Audacity team should really take a look at implementing direct JACK support instead of using PortAudio. Audacity is cross-platform, hense the use of portaudio. I know of other projets that work this way, mixxx included. On the other hand, pure-data supports native backends for all the platforms it runs on, i.e jack and ALSA for linux, coreaudio for OS X, and the Windows audio system whatever its called, for Windows. Luke -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
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Re: Tasks, Workflows, and Packages for Ubuntu Studio Natty
Dear Hartmut, thank you for your compassion. I bought a laptop in 2008 for personal use. At that point I wanted to try Ubuntu Studio but it stopped very quickly because of the non-working wireless connectivity. I only had a wireless connection available in the basement. I installed Linux Mint and it has been working very well. I've also moved twice within the last year and have not gotten my music equipment up and running. Nevertheless, I've been reading all emails in this mailing list and it seems the best setup for Ubuntu Studio would be a desktop PC with a wired network connection, a firewire audio adapter and a MIDI controller that can be plugged in into the GAME port. I had gotten myself a USB audio adapter and a USB midi controller. From what I've learned here, USB seems not to be a very good choice. I am still in the phase of deciding what to do next, and that requires time and money (neither of which I have plenty of, currently). Thank you once again for sharing your knowledge! Sincerely, Stefan --- Hartmut Noack zettber...@linuxuse.de schrieb am Sa, 30.10.2010: Von: Hartmut Noack zettber...@linuxuse.de Betreff: Re: Tasks, Workflows, and Packages for Ubuntu Studio Natty An: ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Datum: Samstag, 30. Oktober, 2010 23:28 Uhr Am 30.10.2010 20:51, schrieb saearea-t...@yahoo.com: Hello Hartmut, thank you very much for the additional work-flow description! Looks great, but I am sorry that I can't test it. Sad - any particular reasons? You can simplyfy the workflow if you skip the avidemux-excursion. You can record the given soundtrack in Ardour as it is being played in OME. Less elegant but simple and just works ;-) Also if you do not need MIDI-composing, you can work it out with Ardour and OME alone... good luck :-) HZN Best regards, Stefan --- Hartmut Noack zettber...@linuxuse.de schrieb am Sa, 30.10.2010: Von: Hartmut Noack zettber...@linuxuse.de Betreff: Re: Tasks, Workflows, and Packages for Ubuntu Studio Natty An: ubuntu-studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Datum: Samstag, 30. Oktober, 2010 19:09 Uhr Am 29.10.2010 23:36, schrieb Scott Lavender: Hello again. For those who are interesting, and I would hope most would be, you can find the task and workflow wiki page at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows I have added a workflow for video-postproduction. Comments welcome :-) All users are encouraging to peruse this page and add their contributions! We only ask that if you have a differing workflow that one that is already extant, please add yours as an alternative and do not remove the other. Before going further I want to explain more about what I mean when I use the term package set. This term is a reference to the applications installed by default with Ubuntu Studio. These packages are NOT being removed from the archives. You can always install these packages at any time, by any method of choice. We are only discussing the inclusion of these package on the Ubuntu Studio ISO. Right. Now that we have that out of the way, I want to inform you how the currently installed package set will change for Natty. These will be new packages (or applications) installed by default when installing Ubuntu Studio: * guitarix * hydrogen-drumkits * lashd * mscore (to replaces denemo and lilypond) * phasex * qtractor (to replace seq24) Qtractor is by no means a replacement for seq24. It is just a completely different application. Seq24 is a pattern-oriented sequencer taht can be used for live-performance in ways that qtractor cannot be used and is not intended to be used. I would consider it a big mistake to remove Seq24. To replace it with qtractor would be like replacing a helicopter with an Airbus. * specimen * whysynth * yoshimi (to replace zynaddsubfx) These are packages (or applications) that are currently included with Ubuntu Studio, but will no longer be: * aconnectgui * audacity I find this logical since Audacity does not fit very well into Jack. Still I wonder what would be the replacement for it (Ardour for more sophisticated waveediting and Mhawaveedit for simle tasks could be a sane recommendation for Audacity-users I guess. * beast * bitscope * bristol * csound * denemo (replaced by mscore) * freebirth * freqtweak * genpo * jackeq * jacktools * jdelay * lillypond (replaced by mscore) * lmms LMMS has a unique concept in terms of usage and workflow that is *not* doubled by qtractor. I'd recommend to keep it. * mixxx * muse * qamix * seq24 (replaced by qtractor) see above - I strongly recommend to keep Seq24. * terminatorx * timemachine Many like timemachine and will be disappointed not to find it automatically installed. Though I would not consider it essential. best regs HZN/berlin * timidity * tk707 * xwax * zynaddsubfx Again, the goal
Re: trying to run my firepod
On 31.10.2010 01:58, Gerhard Lang wrote: Single xruns may happen even with very high latencies just after startup of an application, but not in a running setting. Intolerable loss of performance may be caused by crashed and zombified jackd or other audio applications. Esp. in the setup phase often jackd instances persist, so have a look into system monitor/processes and kill them if those are there. Some devices run better with periods/buffer 2, not 3. Look here for adjusting cpufrequency: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Prozessortaktung Easiest way is using gnome-applets, just right click into a panel. I'd not recommend switching to lowlatency or realtime kernels in this state of progress; these later will save you the last reachable 5% of latency, but not give you the basic functions. ok, this x-runs are not caused by single application starts. and i even get xruns when i just run jack and nothing else. i mean, what the heck? ok. i consider to install the rt-kernel. but its gone, aint? of course, i could compile it by my own, but i know, i cant do it. it would be the first time, that compiling by myself would go right. so, i think about downgrading to 10.04. what is ok, because i dont use the studio-installation for my daily work. i tried a buffer of 2 and 4, but the same result. any other suggestions? if not, i continue with 10.04. just hope, that the firewire-driver is part of this version. my last perfectly working installation of US was 8.04 ;-) thanks for the help -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: trying to run my firepod
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM, mentoj dija mentoj_d...@gmx.de wrote: On 31.10.2010 01:58, Gerhard Lang wrote: Single xruns may happen even with very high latencies just after startup of an application, but not in a running setting. Intolerable loss of performance may be caused by crashed and zombified jackd or other audio applications. Esp. in the setup phase often jackd instances persist, so have a look into system monitor/processes and kill them if those are there. Some devices run better with periods/buffer 2, not 3. Look here for adjusting cpufrequency: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Prozessortaktung Easiest way is using gnome-applets, just right click into a panel. I'd not recommend switching to lowlatency or realtime kernels in this state of progress; these later will save you the last reachable 5% of latency, but not give you the basic functions. ok, this x-runs are not caused by single application starts. and i even get xruns when i just run jack and nothing else. i mean, what the heck? ok. i consider to install the rt-kernel. but its gone, aint? of course, i could compile it by my own, but i know, i cant do it. it would be the first time, that compiling by myself would go right. so, i think about downgrading to 10.04. what is ok, because i dont use the studio-installation for my daily work. i tried a buffer of 2 and 4, but the same result. any other suggestions? if not, i continue with 10.04. just hope, that the firewire-driver is part of this version. my last perfectly working installation of US was 8.04 ;-) thanks for the help -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users i am running 10.04 lucid LTS with https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid added (lucid has linux-rt in the repos, and falks PPA has the realtime kernels from https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa )... the presonus firepod works great for me even at lower latency settings... i can usually push to 1.2msecs if needed, and around 5msecs is very stable... i run both an ubuntustudio 64bit install, and a 32bit vanilla ubuntu install that i added some ubuntustudio metapackges to... both have falks PPA added... -- MH http://www.myspace.com/mikeholstein http://opensourcemusician.libsyn.com/ -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Tasks, Workflows, and Packages for Ubuntu Studio Natty
Firstly, thank you everyone for replying. Community involvement was what I desired and is highly encouraging as well. @hartmut I have added a workflow for video-postproduction. Comments welcome :-) Awesome! This is certainly the type of response I had desired :) I am concerned with the number of video applications we may be acquiring in the workflows now. Currently, OpenShot, Avidemux, and OpenMovieEditor are all included. OpenShot is arguably the easierst, most user friendly video editor. I understand that Avidemux might not be considered a video editor per se, but allows audio to be stripped easily. OpenMovieEditor apparently is JACK aware (I thought LiVes was the only JACK capable video application). Each seems to have a strong point, but I was wondering if it was possible to consolidate these applications choices to reduce their numbers. If an easy solution does not present itself and it is the best interest of functionality to keep all the applications, then it would seem that we should keep all the applications. My suggestion, at this point, would be to replace OpenShot with OpenMovieEditor in the Create a Home Movie task. But I admit that I haven't used OME in quite some time and am not aware how it compares to OpenShot in terms of usability and friendliness. LMMS has a unique concept in terms of usage and workflow that is *not* doubled by qtractor. I'd recommend to keep it. I wish that you do not take my statements in a derogatory or hostile manner. However, I think it would be unfortunate if we were to include LMMS (or any application) solely on the arguments presented above. I have previously mentioned validating inclusion of applications to make sure that they support an entire tool chain for accomplishing a task. But a second order effect would be to also validate if anyone actually desires to accomplish a particular task. Hence, my request that someone specify a task and develop a workflow to support it. Can one someone identify a task and develop a supporting workflow so we can discuss LMMS without abstraction. Also keep in mind, we should also consider that if a very select subset of users desires an application, or entire toolchain, should we include it in the ISO and make hundreds or thousands of users devote bandwidth to download these applications. Especially considering that NO applications are being removed from the archives and can be easily installed with 'sudo apt-get install'. @Jeremy Same here, Qtractor is a multi-track recorder/MIDI composition tool while Seq24 is a pattern based sequencer. Some of the most amazing stuff made on GNU/Linux is done with Seq24. And why Mixxx? It is one of the best DJ mixer apps available, if not the best. Hi Jeremy, and thank you for your comments/questions. I would like to discuss Qtractor in two senses; one as a sequencer and another in tandem with Mixxx. Firstly, Seq24 is a sequencer. If one were wanting to create a song in a studio/bedroom using a sequencer then I would suggest that Qtractor might be a better and more eloquent solution. But if you disagree then I encourage you to add information to the workflow wiki page as an alternative (don't delete, be considerate of others work). Secondly, I will frame Seq24 and Mixxx in a 'live performance' environment. These applications are being considered for a 'live performance' seed (along with other applications) which would then present the user with the option to install them during installation. However, I am not very knowledgeable about using these applications in a live performance and feel that I cannot create tasks or wofklows for them in good faith. But, this is where you can assist by appending the workflow wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows Please keep in mind, a superfluous task (e.g. this task is to keep my favourite application) or a task that only a very few people might support might not be included in the ISO. We are not removing any application from the archives, we would simply not be including it on the ISO. @saearea-test I bought a laptop in 2008 for personal use. At that point I wanted to try Ubuntu Studio but it stopped very quickly because of the non-working wireless connectivity. I only had a wireless connection available in the basement. I installed Linux Mint and it has been working very well. I've also moved twice within the last year and have not gotten my music equipment up and running. Nevertheless, I've been reading all emails in this mailing list and it seems the best setup for Ubuntu Studio would be a desktop PC with a wired network connection, a firewire audio adapter and a MIDI controller that can be plugged in into the GAME port. I had gotten myself a USB audio adapter and a USB midi controller. From what I've learned here, USB seems not to be a very good choice. I am still in the phase of deciding what to do next, and that requires time and money (neither of which I have plenty
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Re: trying to run my firepod
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Mike Holstein mikeh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM, mentoj dija mentoj_d...@gmx.de wrote: i am running 10.04 lucid LTS with https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucidhttps://launchpad.net/%7Efalk-t-j/+archive/lucid added (lucid has linux-rt in the repos, and falks PPA has the realtime kernels from https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppahttps://launchpad.net/%7Eabogani/+archive/ppa )... the presonus firepod works great for me even at lower latency settings... i can usually push to 1.2msecs if needed, and around 5msecs is very stable... i run both an ubuntustudio 64bit install, and a 32bit vanilla ubuntu install that i added some ubuntustudio metapackges to... both have falks PPA added... -- MH I am running a very similar set-up with a Firepod, and get similar results to Mike's. It works very well. I am also still using Lucid, and don't have any plans to use Maverick, at least not on any machines that I need to do serious work on. Here are the basic steps I take to get the Firepod working, many or all of which you've probably seen in other guides: 1) Make sure you are in the Audio group 2) Use Ubuntu Studio Controls to set the Firewire privelages. *WARNING* Do not use Ubuntu Studio Controls to set anything else! 3) Download the -rt kernel from the archive, or the -realtime kernel from Abogani's PPA (which is a more up-to-date kernel, but you won't be able to use any closed video drivers with it) 4) Make sure your JACK settings are correct. In particular, make sure the 'Realtime' option is set. That should get the thing started. Here are a few troubleshooting tips if you are getting a lot of x-runs: -Make sure you have not adjusted any setting in /etc/security/limits.conf. That is the wrong file, and will cause issues if you do adjustments there (this is the file that Ubuntu Studio Controls incorrectly edits). The correct file is /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf. -Try turning off Network Manager (which will need to be installed in Lucid if you wish to get a wireless connection). Just right-click on the app and uncheck 'enable networking'. Hope some of these things help. -- -Brian David -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
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Re: Tasks, Workflows, and Packages for Ubuntu Studio Natty
I agree with a lot of Scott's sentiments on trying to cut back on some of these programs. For instance, in my case the type of music I make and the recording approaches I take mean that I have only ever used: -JACK -Ardour -Jamin -Occasionally Hydrogen As you can see, for a user like me, there are just way too many other audio applications that I have no idea what to do with. It would be nice to have the choice to install just a base set of audio applications. And then, if I ever decide I need more MIDI editing, or some software instruments, I can just go download them. Coming from that perspective, the only reason I can see for having any other audio recording/editing program on the ISO besides Ardour would be if someone wants to do MIDI. And perhaps after Ardour 3 is released, there would essentially be no reason to have anything else. Now, does Audacity or LMMS do certain things better? Sure, and if you want to use them, you can still download them. On the other hand, I would like to see Sound Converter and GCD Master added. I'll write up a work flow that shows how these incorporate into common tasks and add it to the wiki when I next get the time. -- Ubuntu-Studio-users mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-users@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
Re: Tasks, Workflows, and Packages for Ubuntu Studio Natty
Am 31.10.2010 16:12, schrieb Scott Lavender: Firstly, thank you everyone for replying. You are very welcome .-) I am concerned with the number of video applications we may be acquiring in the workflows now. Currently, OpenShot, Avidemux, and OpenMovieEditor are all included. I understand the concern and that it is indeed a complicated task to find a sane and working set of video-apps for Linux. Since the free video-apps are by far not that mature as the audio-stuff I can only add some more points for the discussion. Avidemux is some kind of a swiss-army-knife for working with video-files. I did use it 2 or 3 times as a video-editor but I use it frequently to extract audio and manipulate formats. There are great commandline-apps for these tasks and these are easy to use. But it is not at all easy to know all the options you have in the jungle of formats for video so I consider Avidemux a very user-friendly app since it allows to work with these options intuitive. (Somewhat like PHPMyAdmin if you start working with MySQL...) OpenShot is arguably the easierst, most user friendly video editor. OpenShot is nice and its design is very promising. But as I tested it in May last year I had so many crashes in so many different normal situations, that I must say: if it was not developped in a most astounding speed in the last months, it cannot be considered a application ready for end-users. I understand that Avidemux might not be considered a video editor per se, but allows audio to be stripped easily. OpenMovieEditor apparently is JACK aware It has the best Jack-implementation I ever had the fun using with a video-editor. It produces crashes also that can give you a situation, if you are working in a studio with a customer but I made several video-projects with it and the work went like a breeze - its desaster-recovery system faild only once in 10-12 crashes I had with it in several hundred houres of work. So I would say: even while 1 crash in 10 h is still much too much, it is recommendable. (I thought LiVes was the only JACK capable video application). Each seems to have a strong point, but I was wondering if it was possible to consolidate these applications choices to reduce their numbers. If an easy solution does not present itself and it is the best interest of functionality to keep all the applications, then it would seem that we should keep all the applications. For starters I think, OME should be enough (given, that all the frei0r-plugins and of course ffmpeg are on board also). But the users should be informed in a nice and understandable way, that much more is possible, if they install a list of additional apps. My suggestion, at this point, would be to replace OpenShot with OpenMovieEditor in the Create a Home Movie task. But I admit that I haven't used OME in quite some time and am not aware how it compares to OpenShot in terms of usability and friendliness. Unfortunately, OME is not actively developed these days. Since it is still one great app, I still would recommend its inclusion - maybe this could even lure Richard Spindler into further developing it ;-) LMMS has a unique concept in terms of usage and workflow that is *not* doubled by qtractor. I'd recommend to keep it. I wish that you do not take my statements in a derogatory or hostile manner. However, I think it would be unfortunate if we were to include LMMS (or any application) solely on the arguments presented above. Absolutely no offence ment. :-) But let me advocate LMMS some more: Workflow: Creating electronic music for absolute beginners. Requirements: LMMS * open LMMS and choose alsa for audio-i/o * drag some instruments, presets and/or samples from the browser at the left to beatlines or tracks * hit play and have fun * invite you good friends rightklick, middleklick and the CTRL-key to the party and have more fun * connect any MIDI-Keyboard/Controller to tracks and parameters and have serious fun. Lmms is the most beginner-friendly sequencer I ever have seen under Linux and it is at the same time capable enough to do complex advanced stuff with it also. Qtractor is much more complicated. But while Qtractor comes with Support for DSSI and LV2 and very capable Audiotracks, LMMS has only crude sample-tracks and knows only LADSPA (it comes whith great built-in synths/samplers though and can be compiled to use VST). So both have their audience and their unique powers. Users, that come from Windows/Mac are used to have *all* these powers available and a Linux-distro geared towards creative users should offer as much powers as the free-software-devs are providing.So yes: both are sequencers but if you want to make people happy, you should have both. Beginners will be appalled by the learning curve Qtractor demands, some more experienced users would be disappointed, if the flexibility and audio-capabilities of Qtractor would not be available. So I think, giving both a place in
