Re: ?????: Appeal to the developers/translators
Oryginal Message-: On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 09:46:57AM +0400, Oleg Koptev wrote: In reference to upstream teams - dunno, but I think somebody from here are in tight contact with them (as I see at Og e-mail adress for example). So it could be figured out there in any case. You don't need tight contact with upstream to report bugs (non-obvious strings lacking context is a bug), just open and account in, say, gnome bugzilla and file bug report(s) against the relevant module(s), this way you know for sure that the developers know about the issue and can work on it. Hi, You said that non-obvious string lacking context is a bug. I cannot agree with this, becuase this context usually you can find in real appliacation. If you would open translated programm and try to find doubtful string/option, you would not need a comment for such string. In my opinion, before start to translate application, each translator should first learn it and if he still don't know a meaning of translated string, then he should contact with developers or submit the bug report. I completely disagree. It is a simple matter of efficiency, how much work we can get done with the same amount of work from contributors (developers and translators). It takes one developer about the same amount of time to write context to one unclear string that he himself authored, as it would take one translator to research that string. The problem then is, that without the comments all translators would have to use time on it. Since e.g. gnome is translated into 50-80 languages, you can save the time of the other 49-79 translators (i.e. contributors) by making the comments. Time which they can then use to do other contributions. Regards Kenneth Nielsen -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
Og Maciel írta: 2009/4/6 Evan Murphy evanrmur...@gmail.com: String 6, template jockey, package jockey String 7, template jockey, package jockey Hi Evan, the Jockey package source code is maintained outside of Ubuntu and can be looked at http://home.gna.org/jockey/. I recommend you send an email to the maintainer, and kindly explain the situation so that he can remedy it. No, this is another Jockey :). This one in Ubuntu is the Device driver installer, and one of the few packages where Ubuntu is the upstream: https://launchpad.net/jockey Regards Gabor Kelemen -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: ?????: Appeal to the developers/translators
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 08:28:50AM +0200, Artur Szymanski wrote: Oryginal Message-: On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 09:46:57AM +0400, Oleg Koptev wrote: In reference to upstream teams - dunno, but I think somebody from here are in tight contact with them (as I see at Og e-mail adress for example). So it could be figured out there in any case. You don't need tight contact with upstream to report bugs (non-obvious strings lacking context is a bug), just open and account in, say, gnome bugzilla and file bug report(s) against the relevant module(s), this way you know for sure that the developers know about the issue and can work on it. Hi, You said that non-obvious string lacking context is a bug. I cannot agree with this, becuase this context usually you can find in real appliacation. If you would open translated programm and try to find doubtful string/option, you would not need a comment for such string. If a string can be understood easily from the UI, then it is obvious, otherwise gettext's msgctx has been there for the very reason of making un-clear strings clear. Being mainly a gnome translator, I know for certain that adding translator's comments and message contexts is a well established practice, that when an applications fails to do so, it is considered a bug and should be reported. I don't know much about other projects, but I'll be surprised if that wouldn't the case too. In my opinion, before start to translate application, each translator should first learn it and if he still don't know a meaning of translated string, then he should contact with developers or submit the bug report. I completely agree, and that what my comment was about. Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Ответ: Отве т: Appeal to the developers/translators
Sure, there are i18n and l10n guides that tells developers about this, even things like Gnome HIG deal with this as well, but not every developer will follow it all the time, and we had to point the offending cases out to the developers to get them fixed. On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 10:14:43AM +0400, Oleg Koptev wrote: prophylaxis is better then surgery. 2009/4/7, Khaled Hosny khaledho...@eglug.org: On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 09:46:57AM +0400, Oleg Koptev wrote: In reference to upstream teams - dunno, but I think somebody from here are in tight contact with them (as I see at Og e-mail adress for example). So it could be figured out there in any case. You don't need tight contact with upstream to report bugs (non-obvious strings lacking context is a bug), just open and account in, say, gnome bugzilla and file bug report(s) against the relevant module(s), this way you know for sure that the developers know about the issue and can work on it. Rgerds, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer -- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Koptev Oleg Jabber ID - koptevo...@jabber.ru WWW — http://ktulhuntu.blogspot.com -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Appeal to the developers/translators
Hello all! Want to appeal to all those, who responsible for upload translation templates onto Rosetta. I understand, that this mail list not the best place for yell to developers, but imho better doesn't exist. The cause of problem is in the poor comment for translators in items, where are only adjectives placed. And the problem itself is that adjectives in English doesn't have gender, in contradistinction to e.g. Russian. For example 'tall guy' in english is 'высокИЙ парень' in russian, but 'tall girl' is 'высокАЯ девушка'. As you see, ending of adjectives is different, depends on gender of noun. For example - *http://tinyurl.com/cj3r6e *In this string there are only adjectives and no comments at all about what it's adjectives about. So, I ask all who can contribute for better commenting of similar strings do that. Best wishes to all! -- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Oleg Koptev Jabber ID - koptevo...@jabber.ru Launchpad - https://launchpad.net/~koptev-oleg WWW - http://ktulhuntu.blogspot.com -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
mån 2009-04-06 klockan 22:28 +0400 skrev Oleg Koptev: Hello all! Want to appeal to all those, who responsible for upload translation templates onto Rosetta. I understand, that this mail list not the best place for yell to developers, but imho better doesn't exist. Sabayon is 100% translated upstreams (GNOME). Why invent the wheel again? http://l10n.gnome.org/POT/sabayon.HEAD/sabayon.HEAD.ru.po Regards, Daniel -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
2009/4/6 Oleg Koptev koptev.o...@gmail.com Hello all! Want to appeal to all those, who responsible for upload translation templates onto Rosetta. I understand, that this mail list not the best place for yell to developers, but imho better doesn't exist. The cause of problem is in the poor comment for translators in items, where are only adjectives placed. And the problem itself is that adjectives in English doesn't have gender, in contradistinction to e.g. Russian. For example 'tall guy' in english is 'высокИЙ парень' in russian, but 'tall girl' is 'высокАЯ девушка'. As you see, ending of adjectives is different, depends on gender of noun. For example - *http://tinyurl.com/cj3r6e *In this string there are only adjectives and no comments at all about what it's adjectives about. So, I ask all who can contribute for better commenting of similar strings do that. Best wishes to all! -- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Oleg Koptev Jabber ID - koptevo...@jabber.ru Launchpad - https://launchpad.net/~koptev-oleghttps://launchpad.net/%7Ekoptev-oleg WWW - http://ktulhuntu.blogspot.com I'm glad someone brought this up. We have the same issue in Spanish translations. Yesterday, for instance, I ran into a string that simply read Disabled. That's fine in English, but without reference to the context--specifically whether it's a singular or plural noun being disabled (desactivad*o* or desactivad*os*), and then whether that noun in Spanish is masculine or feminine (desactivado(s) or desactivad*a*(s))--selecting any one of the four is just a gamble. If there's any way for this context to be readily available to the translators (and maybe there already is one that I'm just ignorant about) it would certainly be helpful. Evan Murphy -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
In order to resolve these types of problems, it is *extremely* important to be as precise as possible, so to avoid wasting time from all parties. So, how about listing the name of the packages/applications you're seeing these strings so that we can focus in: * Figuring out if the problem exists in upstream source, and if so... * File bugs where is appropriate and submit patches; * Get the developer/maintainer's input and hopefully resolve it for good Cheers, -- Og B. Maciel omac...@foresightlinux.org ogmac...@gnome.org ogmac...@ubuntu.com GPG Keys: D5CFC202 http://www.ogmaciel.com (en_US) http://blog.ogmaciel.com (pt_BR) -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
sound idea. i will collect all similar information henceforth 2009/4/6 Og Maciel ogmac...@gnome.org In order to resolve these types of problems, it is *extremely* important to be as precise as possible, so to avoid wasting time from all parties. So, how about listing the name of the packages/applications you're seeing these strings so that we can focus in: * Figuring out if the problem exists in upstream source, and if so... * File bugs where is appropriate and submit patches; * Get the developer/maintainer's input and hopefully resolve it for good Cheers, -- Og B. Maciel omac...@foresightlinux.org ogmac...@gnome.org ogmac...@ubuntu.com GPG Keys: D5CFC202 http://www.ogmaciel.com (en_US) http://blog.ogmaciel.com (pt_BR) -- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Koptev Oleg Jabber ID - koptevo...@jabber.ru WWW — http://ktulhuntu.blogspot.com -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
Oleg Koptev wrote: Want to appeal to all those, who responsible for upload translation templates onto Rosetta. I understand, that this mail list not the best place for yell to developers, but imho better doesn't exist. The cause of problem is in the poor comment for translators in items, where are only adjectives placed. Those comments are placed into the upstream source code by upstream developers. Those would be the ones to yell at. (Except of course if the string results of a ubuntu patch, then it would be that guy whoever made/applied the patch). We template uploaders have nothing to do with that. :) Cheers Arne -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Arne Goetje arne.goe...@canonical.com wrote: Those comments are placed into the upstream source code by upstream developers. Those would be the ones to yell at. (Except of course if the string results of a ubuntu patch, then it would be that guy whoever made/applied the patch). I'm pretty sure you didn't mean this literally, but imho we should strive to pave the way for more harmony between translators and developers, Ubuntu and upstream projects. Don't take it this the wrong way but your comment didn't really help the issue. We template uploaders have nothing to do with that. :) Quite the opposite, you can teach/empower translators to become more familiarized with how FOSS projects work and how they can become better citizens. :) Cheers, -- Og B. Maciel omac...@foresightlinux.org ogmac...@gnome.org ogmac...@ubuntu.com GPG Keys: D5CFC202 http://www.ogmaciel.com (en_US) http://blog.ogmaciel.com (pt_BR) -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
Og, thanks for the thorough explanation. Evan Murphy -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Appeal to the developers/translators
Og Maciel wrote: On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Arne Goetje arne.goe...@canonical.com wrote: Those comments are placed into the upstream source code by upstream developers. Those would be the ones to yell at. (Except of course if the string results of a ubuntu patch, then it would be that guy whoever made/applied the patch). I'm pretty sure you didn't mean this literally, but imho we should strive to pave the way for more harmony between translators and developers, Ubuntu and upstream projects. Don't take it this the wrong way but your comment didn't really help the issue. *sigh* do I really have to put sarcasm tags everywhere? I'm sure the original poster knows pretty well, that yelling is not the appropriate form of reporting such issues. I just used his words. :) We template uploaders have nothing to do with that. :) Quite the opposite, you can teach/empower translators to become more familiarized with how FOSS projects work and how they can become better citizens. :) My point was that we *template uploaders* have nothing to do with the *upstream developers* who put those comments into the code. The original poster did the right thing, he just barked up the wrong tree. ;) Therefor the pointer to upstream. Well, I guess I shouldn't hit the reply button when still half asleep... ;) Cheers Arne -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Ответ: Appeal to the developers/translators
Hello all. First - I only share my thoughts about providing more quality in localisation issues. Don't want to annoy to anybody. *yell* sure was an intentionally exaggeration word. read it as *appeal* Second - the problem is take place to be. So I think it need to be sounds as I think. At least we have Launchpad Help page about the translation, where it could be clarified for those, who will placed their project for translation in future. https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject In reference to upstream teams - dunno, but I think somebody from here are in tight contact with them (as I see at Og e-mail adress for example). So it could be figured out there in any case. Thank you for your attention. Best wishes to all! 2009/4/7, Og Maciel ogmac...@gnome.org: On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Arne Goetje arne.goe...@canonical.com wrote: Well, I guess I shouldn't hit the reply button when still half asleep... ;) No harm done here Arne. Take care. -- Og B. Maciel omac...@foresightlinux.org ogmac...@gnome.org ogmac...@ubuntu.com GPG Keys: D5CFC202 http://www.ogmaciel.com (en_US) http://blog.ogmaciel.com (pt_BR) -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators -- C уважением, Коптев Олег With respect, Koptev Oleg Jabber ID - koptevo...@jabber.ru WWW — http://ktulhuntu.blogspot.com -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: Ответ : Appeal to the developers/translators
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 09:46:57AM +0400, Oleg Koptev wrote: In reference to upstream teams - dunno, but I think somebody from here are in tight contact with them (as I see at Og e-mail adress for example). So it could be figured out there in any case. You don't need tight contact with upstream to report bugs (non-obvious strings lacking context is a bug), just open and account in, say, gnome bugzilla and file bug report(s) against the relevant module(s), this way you know for sure that the developers know about the issue and can work on it. Rgerds, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
