Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 06/06/15 18:29, Daniel Llewellyn wrote: the grub menu is used when booting the disc via native EFI, whereas the orange screen is for El Torito dvd boot. This difference will explain the differences you see from the first install attempt and your subsequent attempts. Thanks for that. I have now raised a bug report at: Bug #1462650, so any comments there would be a help. Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
Hi there I had a most annoying problem when installing the testing version of Wily - 15.10. I have two internal drives. One currently has Mint installed, and the other had 15.04 testing in use until I installed 15.10. Following the defaults, the installer warned me that it wanted to install a boot partition and that this might not support a legacy BIOS boot that it had detected on another installation. It gave me no alternative but a manual partitioning. I followed the defaults. The result was that the drive with Ubuntu on would not boot. I had to boot into Mint and do 'update-grub' in order to make it bootable from the other drive. After trying to install a legacy boot partition to the Ubuntu drive, I ended up with so many problems that I re-installed 15.10. This time, I was not asked the same question, and the install took place with no separate boot partition and behaved the way it previously had on earlier versions. I'd like to find a way of reporting this as a bug. Any suggestion as to what program to tell ubuntu-bug I have a problem with? Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 6 June 2015 at 08:20, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: Hi there I had a most annoying problem when installing the testing version of Wily - 15.10. I have two internal drives. One currently has Mint installed, and the other had 15.04 testing in use until I installed 15.10. Following the defaults, the installer warned me that it wanted to install a boot partition and that this might not support a legacy BIOS boot that it had detected on another installation. It gave me no alternative but a manual partitioning. I followed the defaults. The result was that the drive with Ubuntu on would not boot. I had to boot into Mint and do 'update-grub' in order to make it bootable from the other drive. After trying to install a legacy boot partition to the Ubuntu drive, I ended up with so many problems that I re-installed 15.10. This time, I was not asked the same question, and the install took place with no separate boot partition and behaved the way it previously had on earlier versions. To understand the problem further, some questions. Assuming the drives were sda and sdb which is which? As originally setup how did you select which system to boot from? Did you tell the BIOS to boot off one disk or the other or did you get a grub menu that allowed you to select which one? If it was the latter then which drive did it actually boot from to give you the grub menu (as setup in BIOS)? Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 06/06/15 11:07, Colin Law wrote: On 6 June 2015 at 10:32, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: On 06/06/15 08:31, Colin Law wrote: I don't think 'sda' is a valid answer to all the questions, notably: As originally setup how did you select which system to boot from? Did you tell the BIOS to boot off one disk or the other, or did you get a grub menu that allowed you to select which one? During installation, I used the BIOS boot menu to boot from a DVD. This is not the BIOS default, which I had at that time set to boot from sda. Both sda and sdb had a boot sector with grub installed. The grub menu on both had been configured to allow booting from either of the two operating systems. In this case, I had booted straight from the DVD so the installation should not have detected any extraneous information. Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 06/06/15 11:50, Colin Law wrote: You did not answer the other questions on my previous post. Apologies if that is because you still have to sort out the answers. I thought I had better say in case you had missed the questions. Sorry Colin . I saw all the questions - the fact is I did not boot from the grub menu which was normally used to boot in the manner stated. During installation, I had booted directly from the DVD. Please ask me which part of the question I had not answered. The BIOS boot setting was set to sda, but this was not used when booting the live DVD for installation. During the running of the live DVD, neither sda nor sdb were mounted until the installer mounted sdb and re-formatted it. Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 6 June 2015 at 11:27, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: On 06/06/15 11:07, Colin Law wrote: On 6 June 2015 at 10:32, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: On 06/06/15 08:31, Colin Law wrote: I don't think 'sda' is a valid answer to all the questions, notably: As originally setup how did you select which system to boot from? Did you tell the BIOS to boot off one disk or the other, or did you get a grub menu that allowed you to select which one? During installation, I used the BIOS boot menu to boot from a DVD. This is not the BIOS default, which I had at that time set to boot from sda. Both sda and sdb had a boot sector with grub installed. The grub menu on both had been configured to allow booting from either of the two operating systems. In this case, I had booted straight from the DVD so the installation should not have detected any extraneous information. You did not answer the other questions on my previous post. Apologies if that is because you still have to sort out the answers. I thought I had better say in case you had missed the questions. Cheers Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 6 June 2015 at 14:24, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: ... When I decided to re-install, everything was the same as before, but the warning did not appear at all. Grub was installed to sda only, and sdb was not at that time made bootable. I that case perhaps, as I suggested, you did not tell the installer to use sdb for boot. That does not explain why it would not boot off sdb the first time, but it is may be too late to work that out now. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 06/06/15 12:19, Colin Law wrote: How were you trying to boot off sdb (when it would not boot)? What exactly happened when you tried? The installer requested that I restart the system and ejected the DVD as normal. On restart, I first allowed the normal grub screen (from sda) to appear. This was my normal, unaltered grub screen, so I then re-boooted, and used the BIOS boot menu (entered by pressing the F11 key on my system) to boot from sdb. It failed with a message that seemed to indicate that sdb was not bootable. I booted from the grub-screen into Mint, and used update-grub to make the grub menu pick up the Ubuntu installation, which it did. You should not have expected the grub on sda to be updated, as if I understand correctly what you did that should not have affected sda at all. At this point, it had not affected sda at all. I had to update grub manually on sda to get into Ubuntu at all. Are you sure you selected sdb as the drive to put grub on? I think it may default to sda, but not sure. Perhaps that is the difference between the first and second goes. It did put grub on sdb - on a separate boot partition. The grub.config file appeared to be correctly formed. Why it would not boot when I selected sdb, I have no clue at all. After that, I installed grub as a legacy bios boot, first onto the existing FAT32 partition, and then onto the same partition formatted ext4, and finally after deleting the boot partition entirely, installing grub to the main system ext partition. I had no success with any of these, except to drop me into an emergency terminal when booting from sdb. The x-server was not available and failed to start even manually from the command line. When I decided to re-install, everything was the same as before, but the warning did not appear at all. Grub was installed to sda only, and sdb was not at that time made bootable. I did this manually later. I didn't understand why there should have been any change in behaviour. Happy to answer any more questions, but I did not make an exact record of the error messages first time around as I had assumed that re-installing grub to sdb would fix the problem. When that failed, I sat with pen in hand but really got nothing helpful. To be honest, the only place I have found similar annoying behaviour was when installing a legacy OS (Win 7) onto a removable drive in a caddy. I ended up having to unplug both internal drives physically to make a working version. Now, I can plug that drive in and boot into it (sdc) and it thinks it is the only drive, so I am OK. That really was annoying!!! Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 06/06/15 08:31, Colin Law wrote: Assuming the drives were sda and sdb which is which? As originally setup how did you select which system to boot from? Did you tell the BIOS to boot off one disk or the other or did you get a grub menu that allowed you to select which one? If it was the latter then which drive did it actually boot from to give you the grub menu (as setup in BIOS)? Thanks Colin The answer to all three questions is sda. I was installing to sdb, following all the defaults for reformatting and using the entire drive. Mint was (is) on sda. On completing the installation, sdb would not boot, although it had what looked like a valid boot installation on a 510 Mb FAT32 boot partition. Nor had sda had an update to grub. I really can't see why it had messed up what it ought to have done with the boot/grub process on sdb. Neither can I see why it handled the re-installation differently. Basically, the installer doesn't seem to be able to handle systems with more than one bootable hard drive very intuitively. The second installation did not make sdb bootable at all! It re-installed grub to sda, and did an update-grub to that drive. I had to install grub manually to sdb and do an update to that drive to make it bootable. I find it most curious! Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 6 June 2015 at 10:32, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: On 06/06/15 08:31, Colin Law wrote: Assuming the drives were sda and sdb which is which? As originally setup how did you select which system to boot from? Did you tell the BIOS to boot off one disk or the other or did you get a grub menu that allowed you to select which one? If it was the latter then which drive did it actually boot from to give you the grub menu (as setup in BIOS)? Thanks Colin The answer to all three questions is sda. I don't think 'sda' is a valid answer to all the questions, notably: As originally setup how did you select which system to boot from? Did you tell the BIOS to boot off one disk or the other, or did you get a grub menu that allowed you to select which one? I was installing to sdb, following all the defaults for reformatting and using the entire drive. Mint was (is) on sda. On completing the installation, sdb would not boot, although it had what looked like a valid boot installation on a 510 Mb FAT32 boot partition. Nor had sda had an update to grub. I really can't see why it had messed up what it ought to have done with the boot/grub process on sdb. How were you trying to boot of sdb? What exactly happened when you tried? You should not have expected the grub on sda to be updated, as if I understand correctly what you did that should not have affected sda at all. Neither can I see why it handled the re-installation differently. Basically, the installer doesn't seem to be able to handle systems with more than one bootable hard drive very intuitively. The second installation did not make sdb bootable at all! It re-installed grub to sda, and did an update-grub to that drive. I had to install grub manually to sdb and do an update to that drive to make it bootable. I find it most curious! Are you sure you selected sdb as the drive to put grub on? I think it may default to sda, but not sure. Perhaps that is the difference between the first and second goes. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 6 June 2015 at 12:11, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: On 06/06/15 11:50, Colin Law wrote: You did not answer the other questions on my previous post. Apologies if that is because you still have to sort out the answers. I thought I had better say in case you had missed the questions. Sorry Colin . I saw all the questions - the fact is I did not boot from the grub menu which was normally used to boot in the manner stated. During installation, I had booted directly from the DVD. Please ask me which part of the question I had not answered. The BIOS boot setting was set to sda, but this was not used when booting the live DVD for installation. During the running of the live DVD, neither sda nor sdb were mounted until the installer mounted sdb and re-formatted it. Copying from my previous post (with minor adjustments for clarification): I was installing to sdb, following all the defaults for reformatting and using the entire drive. Mint was (is) on sda. On completing the installation, sdb would not boot, although it had what looked like a valid boot installation on a 510 Mb FAT32 boot partition. Nor had sda had an update to grub. I really can't see why it had messed up what it ought to have done with the boot/grub process on sdb. How were you trying to boot off sdb (when it would not boot)? What exactly happened when you tried? You should not have expected the grub on sda to be updated, as if I understand correctly what you did that should not have affected sda at all. Neither can I see why it handled the re-installation differently. Basically, the installer doesn't seem to be able to handle systems with more than one bootable hard drive very intuitively. The second installation did not make sdb bootable at all! It re-installed grub to sda, and did an update-grub to that drive. I had to install grub manually to sdb and do an update to that drive to make it bootable. I find it most curious! Are you sure you selected sdb as the drive to put grub on? I think it may default to sda, but not sure. Perhaps that is the difference between the first and second goes. Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 6 June 2015 at 15:47, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: On 06/06/15 14:40, Colin Law wrote: I that case perhaps, as I suggested, you did not tell the installer to use sdb for boot. As Ubuntu is now so quick and easy to install, I popped a spare 80GiB drive into my caddy, and repeated the exact procedure to install onto sdc (the 80GiB drive). 1) Boot from DVD. 2) Select 'Install Ubuntu' from the first partition. 3) Followed defaults after selecting 'Erase disk and install Ubuntu', and selecting sdc as the disk to be erased. At no point was there anything to ask where I wanted grub to go. I think this can only be done from the manual install screen. As on the second occasion, there was no message about the boot not being compatible with legacy BIOS. Is it possible, on your first attempt, that before selecting the erase all option you had gone into the Something Else option and selected sdb as the boot loader destination? Unfortunately I have not got a spare machine at the moment and don't want to go past the Erase Disk option in case I accidentally erase my working system. When you go onto the page where you select which disc to erase is there nothing about boot loader destination? Colin -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 06/06/15 16:11, Colin Law wrote: picture of a man and keyboard at the bottom of screen? If so what happens if you immediately hit a key? Yes there is. If I hit a key, I get a menu, but it is not the grub menu I got on first boot from the disk. It does not include the OEM install option. First time around, I didn't hit a key, and the first screen was definitely a grub menu that included that choice as well as the expected ones. when you get round to it I believe you should run from the DVD and then ubuntu-bug ubiquity I'll do a bit more research and write a very detailed report to go with the bug report, then do it from the live DVD version. Thanks for that. I don't know how I'd cope with a slow interned feed these days. The DVD ISO took less than ten minutes to download to me. Kind regards, Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 06/06/15 17:03, Colin Law wrote: Is it possible, on your first attempt, that before selecting the erase all option you had gone into the Something Else option and selected sdb as the boot loader destination? Unfortunately I have not got a spare machine at the moment and don't want to go past the Erase Disk option in case I accidentally erase my working system. No, definitely not. It is only about a couple of weeks since I put a new release on my netbook, so I did exactly what I wanted to do first time, and that did mean I went straight to the 'Erase disk ... ' option. I know what you mean about not wanting to go past the 'Erase disk' option. I've clobbered a system accidentally before now, more than once! Fortunately I usually have very recent backups, but even so, it is a pain. When you go onto the page where you select which disc to erase is there nothing about boot loader destination? Absolutely nothing anywhere. As far as I remember, I have never seen that as an option unless I have wanted to use the 'advanced' manual install option, and I never use that when testing. It has always gone onto the same drive I am installing to up to this version, so something has messed it up - and I think it has to do with the default being changed to a FAT32 boot partition at the beginning of the disk. I guess that is at the root of this bug. Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 06/06/15 14:40, Colin Law wrote: I that case perhaps, as I suggested, you did not tell the installer to use sdb for boot. As Ubuntu is now so quick and easy to install, I popped a spare 80GiB drive into my caddy, and repeated the exact procedure to install onto sdc (the 80GiB drive). 1) Boot from DVD. 2) Select 'Install Ubuntu' from the first partition. 3) Followed defaults after selecting 'Erase disk and install Ubuntu', and selecting sdc as the disk to be erased. At no point was there anything to ask where I wanted grub to go. I think this can only be done from the manual install screen. As on the second occasion, there was no message about the boot not being compatible with legacy BIOS. After the requested restart at the end of the installation, grub had been installed and updated to sda, and showed Mint, and the two installations of Ubuntu (the one on sdb and the one on sdc). sdc itself had not been made bootable. That does not explain why it would not boot off sdb the first time, but it is may be too late to work that out now. It is also very difficult to understand why there were two differences in behaviour from the same DVD. On the first installation, I was taken to a grub screen to select Live DVD, installation or OEM installation. The second and third time, I did not get this, or the subsequent warning about no compatibility with legacy BIOS. The disk is read only, and finalised. I can't think where the installer might have stored the new information ... The reason I am asking all this is because I understand so little about the installer itself - It's wonderful unless you have more than one disk drive available. I always follow the installation defaults whenever I install the testing version, as I assume that is what the majority of folk will do. That way, hopefully, problems I find will be similar for most folk. I suppose I could burn a fresh DVD and do another fresh install to sdc to see what happens, but if the information is not on the DVD, I guess the same would happen as before. Back to me real question - how can I report this strange behaviour? I do regard it as a bug. Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 6 June 2015 at 15:47, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: On 06/06/15 14:40, Colin Law wrote: I that case perhaps, as I suggested, you did not tell the installer to use sdb for boot. As Ubuntu is now so quick and easy to install, I popped a spare 80GiB drive into my caddy, and repeated the exact procedure to install onto sdc (the 80GiB drive). 1) Boot from DVD. 2) Select 'Install Ubuntu' from the first partition. 3) Followed defaults after selecting 'Erase disk and install Ubuntu', and selecting sdc as the disk to be erased. At no point was there anything to ask where I wanted grub to go. I think this can only be done from the manual install screen. As on the second occasion, there was no message about the boot not being compatible with legacy BIOS. After the requested restart at the end of the installation, grub had been installed and updated to sda, and showed Mint, and the two installations of Ubuntu (the one on sdb and the one on sdc). sdc itself had not been made bootable. That does not explain why it would not boot off sdb the first time, but it is may be too late to work that out now. It is also very difficult to understand why there were two differences in behaviour from the same DVD. On the first installation, I was taken to a grub screen to select Live DVD, installation or OEM installation. The second and third time, I did not get this, or the subsequent warning about no compatibility with legacy BIOS. I have not got a Wily install DVD so cannot check at the moment. Immediately on booting from the DVD do you get, for a few seconds, a picture of a man and keyboard at the bottom of screen? If so what happens if you immediately hit a key? Will come back to the other issues. I think I will have to download Wily, which takes several hours on my slow broadband :( See below also. The disk is read only, and finalised. I can't think where the installer might have stored the new information ... The reason I am asking all this is because I understand so little about the installer itself - It's wonderful unless you have more than one disk drive available. I always follow the installation defaults whenever I install the testing version, as I assume that is what the majority of folk will do. That way, hopefully, problems I find will be similar for most folk. I suppose I could burn a fresh DVD and do another fresh install to sdc to see what happens, but if the information is not on the DVD, I guess the same would happen as before. Back to me real question - how can I report this strange behaviour? I do regard it as a bug. I think first it is worth while working out exactly what happened, but when you get round to it I believe you should run from the DVD and then ubuntu-bug ubiquity See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage Regards,Barry. -- http://barrydrake.co.nr/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Annoying installation problem ....
On 6 June 2015 at 17:18, Barry Drake ubuntu-advertis...@gmx.com wrote: On 06/06/15 16:11, Colin Law wrote: picture of a man and keyboard at the bottom of screen? If so what happens if you immediately hit a key? Yes there is. If I hit a key, I get a menu, but it is not the grub menu I got on first boot from the disk. It does not include the OEM install option. First time around, I didn't hit a key, and the first screen was definitely a grub menu that included that choice as well as the expected ones. the grub menu is used when booting the disc via native EFI, whereas the orange screen is for El Torito dvd boot. This difference will explain the differences you see from the first install attempt and your subsequent attempts. when you get round to it I believe you should run from the DVD and then ubuntu-bug ubiquity I'll do a bit more research and write a very detailed report to go with the bug report, then do it from the live DVD version. Thanks for that. I don't know how I'd cope with a slow interned feed these days. The DVD ISO took less than ten minutes to download to me. -- Daniel Llewellyn -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
