Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Bruno Girin]

On Mon, 2011-02-21 at 23:39 +, Avi wrote:
> Bruno Girin wrote:
> > 
> > There are plans to change this from 11.04 forward so that new software
> > or new versions of existing software (like Firefox 4) can be included
> > without having to manually add a PPA.
> > 
> 
> Really? I thought PPA's were a reasonably elegant way of 'fixing'
> stability. Have you links to any more info on this?

Well, I should have checked first, I'm not quite correct :-) The way I
understand it, the improvements in software centre (apart from ratings
and reviews) include an easier way to add PPAs, which should make new
versions of software easier to discover without having to know what PPAs
are. I can't find the exact details and the blueprint [1] is not as
clear as it could be but my understanding is that's what is meant by
making it possible for "New applications [to] show up in the software
center".

[1]
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-software-center-roadmap

Cheers,

Bruno



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Liam Gallear]

On 22 Feb 2011, at 17:55, Dave Morley  wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-02-22 at 17:00 +, Alan Lord (News) wrote:
>> On 20/02/11 13:54, Liam Proven wrote:
>>> 
>>> The following, although it may seem petter, isn't. It's important. I
>>> don't want to seem ungrateful but it's kind of a big deal.
>> 
>> For you it maybe. For many others I doubt it very much.
>> 
>>> *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style "@Liam" thing again, to
>>> anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't
>>> threaded as a response to me.
>> 
>> Is that an order to everyone? I'm not sure I like being ordered about 
>> how to reply to a mailing list...
>> 
>> There are *all* kinds of folks on here who have their own motivations, 
>> skill levels and experience. I think we all need to be as welcoming and 
>> accommodating as possible.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Al
>> 
>> 
>> PS: I'm reading, writing and replying to this, and many other mailing 
>> lists, via nntp on gmane.org - this message will probably be in the 
>> right place in my newsgroup thread if I decide to view it threaded; 
>> although mostly I view by *date* anyway.
>> 
>> 
> 
> My Thoughts:
> 
> I've never got the issue with peoples responses.  The only one I kinda
> get is the top posting where it becomes increasingly annoying to follow
> on the bulk mails.
> 
> I find as long as someone has the answer for me then I'm happy that is
> after all why most of us ask questions on the list anyway.
> 
> -- 
> Seek That Thy Might Know
> 
> http://www.davmor2.co.uk
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Wow... This thread deviated from the original topic a bit, didn't it.

My 2p worth, though - I don't have an issue with the @ style reply, infact I 
kind of find it better if you respond to multiple people in the same mail.

The top post/bottom post I understand, to keep the flow of the thread easier to 
read, and so make a conscious effort to bottom post (iPhone top posts for some 
reason).


Thanks and Regards,

Liam Gallear
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Dave Morley]

On Tue, 2011-02-22 at 17:00 +, Alan Lord (News) wrote:
> On 20/02/11 13:54, Liam Proven wrote:
> >
> > The following, although it may seem petter, isn't. It's important. I
> > don't want to seem ungrateful but it's kind of a big deal.
> 
> For you it maybe. For many others I doubt it very much.
> 
> > *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style "@Liam" thing again, to
> > anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't
> > threaded as a response to me.
> 
> Is that an order to everyone? I'm not sure I like being ordered about 
> how to reply to a mailing list...
> 
> There are *all* kinds of folks on here who have their own motivations, 
> skill levels and experience. I think we all need to be as welcoming and 
> accommodating as possible.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Al
> 
> 
> PS: I'm reading, writing and replying to this, and many other mailing 
> lists, via nntp on gmane.org - this message will probably be in the 
> right place in my newsgroup thread if I decide to view it threaded; 
> although mostly I view by *date* anyway.
> 
> 

My Thoughts:

I've never got the issue with peoples responses.  The only one I kinda
get is the top posting where it becomes increasingly annoying to follow
on the bulk mails.

I find as long as someone has the answer for me then I'm happy that is
after all why most of us ask questions on the list anyway.

-- 
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http://www.davmor2.co.uk


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Alan Lord (News)]

On 20/02/11 13:54, Liam Proven wrote:


The following, although it may seem petter, isn't. It's important. I
don't want to seem ungrateful but it's kind of a big deal.


For you it maybe. For many others I doubt it very much.


*Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style "@Liam" thing again, to
anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't
threaded as a response to me.


Is that an order to everyone? I'm not sure I like being ordered about 
how to reply to a mailing list...


There are *all* kinds of folks on here who have their own motivations, 
skill levels and experience. I think we all need to be as welcoming and 
accommodating as possible.


Cheers

Al


PS: I'm reading, writing and replying to this, and many other mailing 
lists, via nntp on gmane.org - this message will probably be in the 
right place in my newsgroup thread if I decide to view it threaded; 
although mostly I view by *date* anyway.



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Michael Douglas]

On 22 Feb 2011 16:28, "Alan Lord (News)"  wrote:
>
> Wow!
>
> Hassan, if you are replying to several people in one message then using
@soandso is fine by me. :-)
>
> I do not think we need to be so prescriptive as to require rules about the
syntax of how to reply.
>
> It's the same as top or bottom posting. I prefer bottom posting, but it's
not the end of the world if peeps use top.
>
> This just is a mailing list for any one (normal people & geeks) to discuss
Ubuntu related stuff.
>
> Al
>
> --
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> http://www.theopenlearningcentre.com
>
>
>
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Agreed, Al. It's that kind of thing that puts people of.

Oh, and if this is a top post, blame Google for Android is coded, as I've
never found a setting to change it. Oh, nevermind. Turns out you just need
to respond inline and scroll to the bottom, instead of having a default for
quoted messages. What a pain.

-Mehall
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Alan Lord (News)]

On 22/02/11 15:26, Hassan "Haz" Williamson wrote:

On 20 February 2011 13:54, Liam Proven mailto:lpro...@gmail.com>> wrote:

*Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style "@Liam" thing again, to
anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't
threaded as a response to me.




My sincerest apologies, I shall avoid doing so in future. I've been
trying to get my head around what you meant, and I hope the method I
used above is the appropriate way you were referring to.


Wow!

Hassan, if you are replying to several people in one message then using 
@soandso is fine by me. :-)


I do not think we need to be so prescriptive as to require rules about 
the syntax of how to reply.


It's the same as top or bottom posting. I prefer bottom posting, but 
it's not the end of the world if peeps use top.


This just is a mailing list for any one (normal people & geeks) to 
discuss Ubuntu related stuff.


Al

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Hassan "Haz" Williamson]

On 20 February 2011 13:54, Liam Proven  wrote:
>
> *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style "@Liam" thing again, to
> anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't
> threaded as a response to me.
>
>
My sincerest apologies, I shall avoid doing so in future. I've been trying
to get my head around what you meant, and I hope the method I used above is
the appropriate way you were referring to.

On a lighter note, I hope the PPA solution I mentioned worked out okay for
you.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Avi]

Bruno Girin wrote:
> 
> There are plans to change this from 11.04 forward so that new software
> or new versions of existing software (like Firefox 4) can be included
> without having to manually add a PPA.
> 

Really? I thought PPA's were a reasonably elegant way of 'fixing'
stability. Have you links to any more info on this?

-- 
Avi

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Liam Proven]

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 6:05 AM, Hassan "Haz" Williamson
 wrote:
> @Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing
> LibreOffice with the PPA.

Thanks for the tip, I shall look into it. I don't recall how I
installed LO on my desktop, but I don't see any repos for LO in my
sources.list so I guess I must have just downloaded it.

The following, although it may seem petter, isn't. It's important. I
don't want to seem ungrateful but it's kind of a big deal.

*Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style "@Liam" thing again, to
anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't
threaded as a response to me.

The *only* reason for "@username" is on crappy flat fora with no
threading - it enables you to direct responses when the software is
too crap, broken and pathetic to support threading, which has been a
standard feature of email and newsgroups for about 35 years now. Or,
of course, that the authors are too damned stupid to have implemented
it.

This is the reason I don't use the Ubuntu fora and won't use web fora
in general unless there is no alternative. No threading means a
useless, chaotic mess.

If you'd replied to me, my email client would have told me about it.
As it was, you didn't, you only replied to Mac and I happened to
stumble across the message revisiting the thread.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Bruno Girin]

On Sun, 2011-02-20 at 11:37 +, Simon Greenwood wrote:


> Is there anything significant preventing LO being put into the
> Ubuntu Software Centre? When LO gets into Ubuntu as it will,
> in 11.04, I will certainly use it, but my tech experience
> level is not really sufficient to effortlessly manage PPAs and
> the possible complication of the existing Open Office too.
> 
> If LO was to be available in the Ubuntu Software Centre then I
> would use it now.
> -- 
> 
> 
> I would guess that it's Canonical policy: the office suite is seen as
> a core component in Desktop and as such is maintained.OO and LO
> probably don't exactly coexist in Linux so having one or the other is
> a practical consideration as well as a policy decision.

I think the main reason is that at the moment, all software in the
software centre for a given cycle (say 10.10) is fixed at the time of
the release, down to the actual version of the software. The only thing
that get in the repos of a released version of Ubuntu are fixes.

There are plans to change this from 11.04 forward so that new software
or new versions of existing software (like Firefox 4) can be included
without having to manually add a PPA.

Besides, the libreoffice package will actually remove openoffice.org
when you install it, not because they don't like OOo but because the two
suites have too much in common while having subtle differences and as
you say above having both of them side by side would mean a lot of
potential complications.

Cheers,

Bruno




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Simon Greenwood]

On 20 February 2011 10:30, alan c  wrote:

> On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan "Haz" Williamson wrote:
>
>> @Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the
>> developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to
>> their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try
>> to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could
>> be
>> wrong, but that's just my opinion of it.
>>
>> @Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing
>> LibreOffice with the PPA. If I recall the PPA supports 10.04, 10.10 and
>> 11.04. I'll list the commands for it below for you:
>>
>>
>> *sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/ppa*
>> *
>> *
>> *sudo apt-get update*
>> *
>> *
>> *sudo apt-get install libreoffice*
>>
>>
>> If your using gnome, then also run this for it to integrate better:
>>
>>
>> *sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome*
>>
>>
>> For KDE:
>>
>> *sudo apt-get install libreoffice-kde*
>>
>>
>> There is an article somewhere on omgubuntu.co.uk about this. I'll link it
>> at
>> the end for reference. This will install LibreOffice just like any other
>> application you'd find in the ubuntu repo's. So you'll get your menu item,
>> document file type associations, etc... Enjoy :).
>>
>> I really don't understand why the one on the LibreOffice website is so
>> complicated to try and get it to work. It might scare some people away
>> from
>> using it, which would be a shame. I'm sure they'll make it easier as time
>> passes though.
>>
>> Hope this helps you out, and hopefully others who many be having trouble
>> getting LibreOffice to work.
>>
>
> Is there anything significant preventing LO being put into the Ubuntu
> Software Centre? When LO gets into Ubuntu as it will, in 11.04, I will
> certainly use it, but my tech experience level is not really sufficient to
> effortlessly manage PPAs and the possible complication of the existing Open
> Office too.
>
> If LO was to be available in the Ubuntu Software Centre then I would use it
> now.
> --
>

I would guess that it's Canonical policy: the office suite is seen as a core
component in Desktop and as such is maintained.OO and LO probably don't
exactly coexist in Linux so having one or the other is a practical
consideration as well as a policy decision.

s/
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[alan c]

On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan "Haz" Williamson wrote:

@Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the
developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to
their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try
to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could be
wrong, but that's just my opinion of it.

@Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing
LibreOffice with the PPA. If I recall the PPA supports 10.04, 10.10 and
11.04. I'll list the commands for it below for you:


*sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/ppa*
*
*
*sudo apt-get update*
*
*
*sudo apt-get install libreoffice*


If your using gnome, then also run this for it to integrate better:


*sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome*


For KDE:

*sudo apt-get install libreoffice-kde*


There is an article somewhere on omgubuntu.co.uk about this. I'll link it at
the end for reference. This will install LibreOffice just like any other
application you'd find in the ubuntu repo's. So you'll get your menu item,
document file type associations, etc... Enjoy :).

I really don't understand why the one on the LibreOffice website is so
complicated to try and get it to work. It might scare some people away from
using it, which would be a shame. I'm sure they'll make it easier as time
passes though.

Hope this helps you out, and hopefully others who many be having trouble
getting LibreOffice to work.


Is there anything significant preventing LO being put into the Ubuntu 
Software Centre? When LO gets into Ubuntu as it will, in 11.04, I will 
certainly use it, but my tech experience level is not really 
sufficient to effortlessly manage PPAs and the possible complication 
of the existing Open Office too.


If LO was to be available in the Ubuntu Software Centre then I would 
use it now.

--
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Ubuntu user

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[mac]

On 19/02/2011 13:16, Sean Miller wrote:

Having worked with Oracle for 22 years I think I perhaps have less distrust
of Larry Ellison's company than some


Oh, I don't distrust them.  On the contrary, I trust them to do what 
they do very well:  invent ways of making money.  In the case of OOo, 
that will mean trying to 'extend' and 'monetise' it.





Sun wasn't any more "not for profit" than Oracle is.  I'm trying to think
what our Solaris servers cost back in 1993


Yes, indeed, of course Sun did sell things for profit - but not Open 
Office, which Oracle will want to find ways of making money out of.  And 
one guesses they will do that by introducing proprietary 'enhancements'.


So if you want 'free' in both senses, looks like Libre Office is the 
only show in town.


mac




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Sean Miller]

On 19 February 2011 07:00, mac  wrote:

> On 19/02/2011 06:05, Hassan "Haz" Williamson wrote:
>
>> @Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the
>> developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to
>> their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try
>> to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could
>> be
>> wrong, but that's just my opinion of it.
>>
>
> Yes, you'd expect Oracle to want to make money - it's what they do - and
> that means only giving (some) things to people who pay.  So they're bound to
> look for ways of doing that with stuff that Sun used to give away for
> nothing.


I don't think that interaction with the Oracle RDBMS would necessarily be a
bad move, or MySQL which - of course - is also now Oracle's.

Having worked with Oracle for 22 years I think I perhaps have less distrust
of Larry Ellison's company than some - let's face it, Sun Microsystems were
no less corporate than Oracle yet nobody seemed to have the issues with them
they do now that Oracle owns the code.  I recall in 1989 actually being
credited for a feature in Oracle 6, the company used to regularly solicit
suggestions from companies using their tools.

Sun wasn't any more "not for profit" than Oracle is.  I'm trying to think
what our Solaris servers cost back in 1993... I think for 4 workstations and
a server it was somewhere around £500,000.

Sean
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 19/02/11 10:26, Neil Greenwood wrote:
On 19 Feb 2011, at 08:59, Gordon Burgess-Parker  
wrote:



On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan "Haz" Williamson wrote:


@Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just 
installing LibreOffice with the PPA.


The one MAJOR problem with doing it that way is if you don't use 
Evolution for email. The ppa version will NOT use any other address 
book as a source for addresses in mail merges...whereas the version 
directly from LO will



That sounds like a bug, or at least a feature request.

Cofion/regards,
Neil.

It's certainly not a bug - it's been a missing feature for a long time 
AFAIR


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Neil Greenwood]

On 19 Feb 2011, at 08:59, Gordon Burgess-Parker   
wrote:



On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan "Haz" Williamson wrote:


@Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just  
installing LibreOffice with the PPA.


The one MAJOR problem with doing it that way is if you don't use  
Evolution for email. The ppa version will NOT use any other address  
book as a source for addresses in mail merges...whereas the version  
directly from LO will



That sounds like a bug, or at least a feature request.

Cofion/regards,
Neil.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan "Haz" Williamson wrote:


@Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just 
installing LibreOffice with the PPA.


The one MAJOR problem with doing it that way is if you don't use 
Evolution for email. The ppa version will NOT use any other address book 
as a source for addresses in mail merges...whereas the version directly 
from LO will


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Paul Sutton]

I really don't understand why the one on the LibreOffice website is so 
complicated to try and get it to work. It might scare some people away 
from using it, which would be a shame. I'm sure they'll make it easier 
as time passes though.


e-mail them and say it looks complex and why,   they are open to 
suggestions and comments,   or i have found oss projects are in general


paul







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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[mac]

On 19/02/2011 06:05, Hassan "Haz" Williamson wrote:

@Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the
developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to
their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try
to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could be
wrong, but that's just my opinion of it.


Yes, you'd expect Oracle to want to make money - it's what they do - and 
that means only giving (some) things to people who pay.  So they're 
bound to look for ways of doing that with stuff that Sun used to give 
away for nothing.




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Hassan "Haz" Williamson]

@Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the
developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to
their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try
to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could be
wrong, but that's just my opinion of it.

@Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing
LibreOffice with the PPA. If I recall the PPA supports 10.04, 10.10 and
11.04. I'll list the commands for it below for you:


*sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/ppa*
*
*
*sudo apt-get update*
*
*
*sudo apt-get install libreoffice*


If your using gnome, then also run this for it to integrate better:


*sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome*


For KDE:

*sudo apt-get install libreoffice-kde*


There is an article somewhere on omgubuntu.co.uk about this. I'll link it at
the end for reference. This will install LibreOffice just like any other
application you'd find in the ubuntu repo's. So you'll get your menu item,
document file type associations, etc... Enjoy :).

I really don't understand why the one on the LibreOffice website is so
complicated to try and get it to work. It might scare some people away from
using it, which would be a shame. I'm sure they'll make it easier as time
passes though.

Hope this helps you out, and hopefully others who many be having trouble
getting LibreOffice to work.



-- 
Regards,
Haz


P.S. Found the omgubuntu article that describes what I've wrote above. Here
it is:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/new-ppa-makes-installing-libreoffice-on-ubuntu-easy/
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[Liam Proven]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:44 AM, mac  wrote:
> Just to follow up the recent thread - I guess some but not all of us may
> have come across this:
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/d/applications/open-office-dilemma-openofficeorg-vs-libreoffice-716

Interesting - thanks for that.

I have LibreOffice 3.3 running fine on my Ubuntu 10.04 desktop. The
only snag is that it doesn't respect GTK themes nor use GNOME dialog
boxes, so it looks out of place. Works OK, though.

Oddly, here on my notebook, running 10.10, when I tried to download
OO.o 3.3, I got a big (~145MB) archive containing a script which, when
run, announced that it was skipping every single component. Why, I do
not know.

Manually installing all the .DEB packages resulted in a few min of
chugging away, and the packages being installed according to Synaptic,
but no menu entries and no oowriter command available at the shell
prompt.

I removed it, and removed the built-in OO.o 3.2, then reinstalled 3.3.
No difference.

I removed it again, redownloaded a fresh copy and tried again. Same thing.

I removed it, downloaded LibreOffice 3.3 instead, but the website gave
me not a final version but RC4.

A 2nd redownload was the same.

So I've reinstalled the Ubuntu packaged OO.o 3.2. At least it works.

-- 
Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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[ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice

[mac]

Just to follow up the recent thread - I guess some but not all of us may 
have come across this:


http://www.infoworld.com/d/applications/open-office-dilemma-openofficeorg-vs-libreoffice-716


mac


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