Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Paul Sutton]

On 26/10/10 23:35, Grant Sewell wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:28:35 +0100
> Rob Beard wrote:
> 
>> On 26/10/10 22:41, Glen Mehn wrote:
>>> Do you get to see what happens when the screen is plugged in?



Ah a physical screen (monitor), i kinda read that as the program screen

lol

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Tyler J. Wagner]

On Wed, 2010-10-27 at 14:51 +0100, Paul Willis wrote:
> Yep, we had those too. Kick-off I think it was called.
> 
> In fact here it is
> http://www.sophisticated.com/products/kick-off/kick-off_mac.html

Yep, that's it! Thanks for the reminder. May I never see such a device
again. :)

Tyler


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Glen Mehn]

On 27/10/10 12:24, Paul Willis wrote:
>
> As far as what happened at the point where the Mac Mini was on but not 
> visible on the network I'm not sure what stage it was at. As I mentioned this 
> is in a remote office so I'm troubleshooting it via email and phone with a 
> non technical person but I'll check if they actually plugged the screen in at 
> that point and what they saw if they did.
>
> I'm new to Ubuntu on a Mac that isn't running in VMWare to be honest. I'm not 
> sure if I'm using Bootcamp. We booted from an Ubuntu CD we had downloaded and 
> chose the option to overwrite the whole disk. I don't believe there is any 
> Apple software on the disk but I must admit I'm not really sure how the 
> installer does it.
>
>
Paul,

I think you need this.

http://refit.sourceforge.net/

Which is an alternative bootloader.

Best of luck,

Glen

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Paul Willis]

On 27 Oct 2010, at 14:01, Tyler J. Wagner wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-10-27 at 12:24 +0100, Paul Willis wrote:
>> I do remember now that some older Mac G4 towers we used (running Mac OS X 
>> server) had a similar headless problem and plugging the DVI to VGA adapter 
>> in the back sorted it. I had forgotten about that so it might be the answer 
>> as the discussions on those links suggest.
> 
> Ah, yes. You've reminded me as well. Some time ago, my company operated
> a Mac running MacOS 9. It had two special peripherals: a DVI-VGA dongle
> to make it boot, and a small device on the power cable. That device had
> a USB cable, connected to the same Mac. If the Mac locked up, apparently
> detectable by some kind of USB activity, it would cycle the power.

Yep, we had those too. Kick-off I think it was called.

In fact here it is 
http://www.sophisticated.com/products/kick-off/kick-off_mac.html

Paul
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Tyler J. Wagner]

On Wed, 2010-10-27 at 12:24 +0100, Paul Willis wrote:
> I do remember now that some older Mac G4 towers we used (running Mac OS X 
> server) had a similar headless problem and plugging the DVI to VGA adapter in 
> the back sorted it. I had forgotten about that so it might be the answer as 
> the discussions on those links suggest.

Ah, yes. You've reminded me as well. Some time ago, my company operated
a Mac running MacOS 9. It had two special peripherals: a DVI-VGA dongle
to make it boot, and a small device on the power cable. That device had
a USB cable, connected to the same Mac. If the Mac locked up, apparently
detectable by some kind of USB activity, it would cycle the power.

Regards,
Tyler

--
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butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Paul Willis]

On 26 Oct 2010, at 23:35, Grant Sewell wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:28:35 +0100
> Rob Beard wrote:
> 
>> On 26/10/10 22:41, Glen Mehn wrote:
>>> Do you get to see what happens when the screen is plugged in? i.e,.
>>> is it stuck before grub or after? I kind of assume you aren't
>>> running X on the server (stock ubuntu server, right?)
>>> 
>>> I know of a hosting company who uses mac minis (though I can't
>>> think of who they are at the moment... grumble...) as a server that
>>> sits between dedicated machines and virtual servers. Obviously only
>>> good for low-intensity i/o tasks. You might try to find them to see
>>> if there's something mac-specific that's going on.
>>> 
>>> I would easily put £20 on it being a mac thing that has to be
>>> disabled in the mac prom, but I've no idea how to do that (I don't
>>> think that apple opens up their firmwares to outside people)
>>> 
>>> Aha! Here's the company. The short version suggests not using boot
>>> camp (I'm not sure what else you might use)
>>> 
>>> http://www.mythic-beasts.com/support/macminicolo_howto.html
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Doing some more reading on 
>> http://forums.macnn.com/104/alternative-operating-systems/296206/headless-mac-mini-server-using-bootcamp/
>>  
>> it looks like a couple of pins need to be connected together with a 
>> resistor on the DVI port.  Details are on the thread a bit further
>> down (there is a link from the link to the Macnn.com forum but it's a
>> broken link).  It appears to be something to do with Bootcamp.
>> 
>> Rob
> 
> I have not looked into this, but is there no way of installing Ubuntu
> natively without resorting to bootcamp's fake BIOS environment?  If it
> is bootcamp's VGA issue that is causing this problem, and Ubuntu can be
> installed natively sans bootcamp, then surely there's the answer right
> there.
> 
> (BTW, I do not have an EFI IntelliMac... mine is a nice old OF G3
> iBook.)
> 
> Grant.

Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions and things to explore.

I do remember now that some older Mac G4 towers we used (running Mac OS X 
server) had a similar headless problem and plugging the DVI to VGA adapter in 
the back sorted it. I had forgotten about that so it might be the answer as the 
discussions on those links suggest.

As far as what happened at the point where the Mac Mini was on but not visible 
on the network I'm not sure what stage it was at. As I mentioned this is in a 
remote office so I'm troubleshooting it via email and phone with a non 
technical person but I'll check if they actually plugged the screen in at that 
point and what they saw if they did.

I'm new to Ubuntu on a Mac that isn't running in VMWare to be honest. I'm not 
sure if I'm using Bootcamp. We booted from an Ubuntu CD we had downloaded and 
chose the option to overwrite the whole disk. I don't believe there is any 
Apple software on the disk but I must admit I'm not really sure how the 
installer does it.

Paul




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Grant Sewell]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:28:35 +0100
Rob Beard wrote:

> On 26/10/10 22:41, Glen Mehn wrote:
> > Do you get to see what happens when the screen is plugged in? i.e,.
> > is it stuck before grub or after? I kind of assume you aren't
> > running X on the server (stock ubuntu server, right?)
> >
> > I know of a hosting company who uses mac minis (though I can't
> > think of who they are at the moment... grumble...) as a server that
> > sits between dedicated machines and virtual servers. Obviously only
> > good for low-intensity i/o tasks. You might try to find them to see
> > if there's something mac-specific that's going on.
> >
> > I would easily put £20 on it being a mac thing that has to be
> > disabled in the mac prom, but I've no idea how to do that (I don't
> > think that apple opens up their firmwares to outside people)
> >
> > Aha! Here's the company. The short version suggests not using boot
> > camp (I'm not sure what else you might use)
> >
> > http://www.mythic-beasts.com/support/macminicolo_howto.html
> >
> 
> 
> Doing some more reading on 
> http://forums.macnn.com/104/alternative-operating-systems/296206/headless-mac-mini-server-using-bootcamp/
>  
> it looks like a couple of pins need to be connected together with a 
> resistor on the DVI port.  Details are on the thread a bit further
> down (there is a link from the link to the Macnn.com forum but it's a
> broken link).  It appears to be something to do with Bootcamp.
> 
> Rob

I have not looked into this, but is there no way of installing Ubuntu
natively without resorting to bootcamp's fake BIOS environment?  If it
is bootcamp's VGA issue that is causing this problem, and Ubuntu can be
installed natively sans bootcamp, then surely there's the answer right
there.

(BTW, I do not have an EFI IntelliMac... mine is a nice old OF G3
iBook.)

Grant.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Rob Beard]

On 26/10/10 22:41, Glen Mehn wrote:
> Do you get to see what happens when the screen is plugged in? i.e,. is
> it stuck before grub or after? I kind of assume you aren't running X on
> the server (stock ubuntu server, right?)
>
> I know of a hosting company who uses mac minis (though I can't think of
> who they are at the moment... grumble...) as a server that sits between
> dedicated machines and virtual servers. Obviously only good for
> low-intensity i/o tasks. You might try to find them to see if there's
> something mac-specific that's going on.
>
> I would easily put £20 on it being a mac thing that has to be disabled
> in the mac prom, but I've no idea how to do that (I don't think that
> apple opens up their firmwares to outside people)
>
> Aha! Here's the company. The short version suggests not using boot camp
> (I'm not sure what else you might use)
>
> http://www.mythic-beasts.com/support/macminicolo_howto.html
>


Doing some more reading on 
http://forums.macnn.com/104/alternative-operating-systems/296206/headless-mac-mini-server-using-bootcamp/
 
it looks like a couple of pins need to be connected together with a 
resistor on the DVI port.  Details are on the thread a bit further down 
(there is a link from the link to the Macnn.com forum but it's a broken 
link).  It appears to be something to do with Bootcamp.

Rob

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Tyler J. Wagner]

On Tue, 2010-10-26 at 21:57 +0100, Simon Greenwood wrote:
> You could try disabling the DVI port in the Ubuntu config.

I doubt very, very much that Ubuntu has anything to do with this. Start
by checking that EFI, the Mac equivalent of BIOS, has a setting to
"ignore boot errors", or "headless boot", or something like that.

Disclaimer: I'm very familiar with the boot process on PC hardware, but
have never done anything with EFI.

Regards,
Tyler

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Glen Mehn]

Do you get to see what happens when the screen is plugged in? i.e,. is 
it stuck before grub or after? I kind of assume you aren't running X on 
the server (stock ubuntu server, right?)

I know of a hosting company who uses mac minis (though I can't think of 
who they are at the moment... grumble...) as a server that sits between 
dedicated machines and virtual servers. Obviously only good for 
low-intensity i/o tasks. You might try to find them to see if there's 
something mac-specific that's going on.

I would easily put £20 on it being a mac thing that has to be disabled 
in the mac prom, but I've no idea how to do that (I don't think that 
apple opens up their firmwares to outside people)

Aha! Here's the company. The short version suggests not using boot camp 
(I'm not sure what else you might use)

http://www.mythic-beasts.com/support/macminicolo_howto.html

On 26/10/10 21:57, Simon Greenwood wrote:
>
>
> On 26 October 2010 21:09, Rob Beard  > wrote:
>
> On 26/10/10 20:50, Paul Willis wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I set up Ubuntu 10.04 LTS server on a Mac Mini and shipped it
> off to our other office (too far for me to go and troubleshoot)
> where they plugged in a screen configured the network settings in
> the cli and then unplugged the screen.
> >
> > Everything worked fine until at some point a few weeks later the
> machine was switched off and when turned on again it wouldn't boot
> up properly (well it wouldn't appear on the network) until a
> screen was plugged in at which point it booted fine and appeared
> on the network without any problem.
> >
> > Unfortunately I'm not sure how the unit came to have the power
> disconnected it is plugged into a UPS all I know is that it was
> turned off when staff came in in the morning.
> >
> > This same scenario occurred a second time a week or so later and
> once again a screen was required for the server to be fully
> operational.
> >
> > When it starts up with a screen I'm told there i
>
> I've run a couple of headless servers and never had this issue, it
> just
> carries on.  That's not to say there maybe a setting where the Mac
> expects a monitor to be connected.  I've seen something along these
> lines on some PCs although it tends to be more a keyboard or mouse not
> plugged in rather than a screen not plugged in.
>
> Does it boot when the screen is plugged in but turned off?
>
> Also, could it be that some cleaner is unplugging the UPS or something
> thinks that the machine should be turned off to save electricity
> thinking they're being helpful?
>
> If you solve it or not I'd suggest maybe putting something on the plug
> or a note over the socket saying that the kit has to be kept
> plugged in
> and turned on.  I've seen some things that you can get which fit round
> the plug and cover the power switch (although I don't know where
> you can
> get them from, maybe Maplins, CPC etc or even an office supplies
> company
> maybe?).
>
> By the way, I did a quick google search, looks like someone else is
> having a similar issue with a Mac Mini but with XP...
>
> 
> http://forums.macnn.com/104/alternative-operating-systems/296206/headless-mac-mini-server-using-bootcamp/
>
> Might give you more to go on.
>
>
> You could try disabling the DVI port in the Ubuntu config. Xorg does 
> test on boot whether a screen is installed or not, so you might need 
> to set the DVI port to be ignored. This article gives a clue: 
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=992602 but not much detail.
>
> s/
>
>
>
>
> -- 
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> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/simonfgreenwood
> Twitter: @sfgreenwood

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Simon Greenwood]

On 26 October 2010 21:09, Rob Beard  wrote:

> On 26/10/10 20:50, Paul Willis wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I set up Ubuntu 10.04 LTS server on a Mac Mini and shipped it off to our
> other office (too far for me to go and troubleshoot) where they plugged in a
> screen configured the network settings in the cli and then unplugged the
> screen.
> >
> > Everything worked fine until at some point a few weeks later the machine
> was switched off and when turned on again it wouldn't boot up properly (well
> it wouldn't appear on the network) until a screen was plugged in at which
> point it booted fine and appeared on the network without any problem.
> >
> > Unfortunately I'm not sure how the unit came to have the power
> disconnected it is plugged into a UPS all I know is that it was turned off
> when staff came in in the morning.
> >
> > This same scenario occurred a second time a week or so later and once
> again a screen was required for the server to be fully operational.
> >
> > When it starts up with a screen I'm told there i
>
> I've run a couple of headless servers and never had this issue, it just
> carries on.  That's not to say there maybe a setting where the Mac
> expects a monitor to be connected.  I've seen something along these
> lines on some PCs although it tends to be more a keyboard or mouse not
> plugged in rather than a screen not plugged in.
>
> Does it boot when the screen is plugged in but turned off?
>
> Also, could it be that some cleaner is unplugging the UPS or something
> thinks that the machine should be turned off to save electricity
> thinking they're being helpful?
>
> If you solve it or not I'd suggest maybe putting something on the plug
> or a note over the socket saying that the kit has to be kept plugged in
> and turned on.  I've seen some things that you can get which fit round
> the plug and cover the power switch (although I don't know where you can
> get them from, maybe Maplins, CPC etc or even an office supplies company
> maybe?).
>
> By the way, I did a quick google search, looks like someone else is
> having a similar issue with a Mac Mini but with XP...
>
>
> http://forums.macnn.com/104/alternative-operating-systems/296206/headless-mac-mini-server-using-bootcamp/
>
> Might give you more to go on.
>
>
You could try disabling the DVI port in the Ubuntu config. Xorg does test on
boot whether a screen is installed or not, so you might need to set the DVI
port to be ignored. This article gives a clue:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=992602 but not much detail.

s/




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Rob Beard]

On 26/10/10 20:50, Paul Willis wrote:
> Hi
>
> I set up Ubuntu 10.04 LTS server on a Mac Mini and shipped it off to our 
> other office (too far for me to go and troubleshoot) where they plugged in a 
> screen configured the network settings in the cli and then unplugged the 
> screen.
>
> Everything worked fine until at some point a few weeks later the machine was 
> switched off and when turned on again it wouldn't boot up properly (well it 
> wouldn't appear on the network) until a screen was plugged in at which point 
> it booted fine and appeared on the network without any problem.
>
> Unfortunately I'm not sure how the unit came to have the power disconnected 
> it is plugged into a UPS all I know is that it was turned off when staff came 
> in in the morning.
>
> This same scenario occurred a second time a week or so later and once again a 
> screen was required for the server to be fully operational.
>
> When it starts up with a screen I'm told there i

I've run a couple of headless servers and never had this issue, it just 
carries on.  That's not to say there maybe a setting where the Mac 
expects a monitor to be connected.  I've seen something along these 
lines on some PCs although it tends to be more a keyboard or mouse not 
plugged in rather than a screen not plugged in.

Does it boot when the screen is plugged in but turned off?

Also, could it be that some cleaner is unplugging the UPS or something 
thinks that the machine should be turned off to save electricity 
thinking they're being helpful?

If you solve it or not I'd suggest maybe putting something on the plug 
or a note over the socket saying that the kit has to be kept plugged in 
and turned on.  I've seen some things that you can get which fit round 
the plug and cover the power switch (although I don't know where you can 
get them from, maybe Maplins, CPC etc or even an office supplies company 
maybe?).

By the way, I did a quick google search, looks like someone else is 
having a similar issue with a Mac Mini but with XP...

http://forums.macnn.com/104/alternative-operating-systems/296206/headless-mac-mini-server-using-bootcamp/

Might give you more to go on.

Rob

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[ubuntu-uk] Server won't start without screen

[Paul Willis]

Hi

I set up Ubuntu 10.04 LTS server on a Mac Mini and shipped it off to our other 
office (too far for me to go and troubleshoot) where they plugged in a screen 
configured the network settings in the cli and then unplugged the screen.

Everything worked fine until at some point a few weeks later the machine was 
switched off and when turned on again it wouldn't boot up properly (well it 
wouldn't appear on the network) until a screen was plugged in at which point it 
booted fine and appeared on the network without any problem.

Unfortunately I'm not sure how the unit came to have the power disconnected it 
is plugged into a UPS all I know is that it was turned off when staff came in 
in the morning.

This same scenario occurred a second time a week or so later and once again a 
screen was required for the server to be fully operational.

When it starts up with a screen I'm told there is nothing unusual and it just 
shows the login prompt - there is no windowing system installed it's a basic 
LAMP server installation

We have another Mac Mini (not 100% the same spec but as close as damn it) with 
exactly the same Ubuntu 10.04 LTS server installation on it and that boots 
headless without any problems

So my questions: Is there some setting somewhere in Ubuntu that requires a 
screen to be plugged in that I can disable? Is something else going on here? Is 
it possible that if the server is booted with a screen and then shut down by a 
power failure expects a screen on reboot and is confused if there isn't one 
attached?

Cheers

Paul


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