Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 11/06/11 17:48, Alan Bell wrote: On 11/06/11 16:51, gazz wrote: I dunno if we should do another list for people interested in education/non-profit stuff? Is it on-topic for this list? yes, advocating Ubuntu in the UK education sector is totally on topic for this list. Alan Which list would you suggest please? -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 11/06/11 16:51, gazz wrote: I dunno if we should do another list for people interested in education/non-profit stuff? Is it on-topic for this list? yes, advocating Ubuntu in the UK education sector is totally on topic for this list. Alan -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 13:24 +0100, john beddard wrote: > Hello Gazz,Sarah : > > I'm also interested in developing materials in the area of introducing > Ubuntu, as a non-profit. So please keep me in the information loop. I > would like to contribute. > Hi John - yes, that's exactly what we've found. In a lot of London Boroughs, schools have even actually been told they *have* to use specified Microsoft suppliers so we gave up a few years ago. I dunno if we should do another list for people interested in education/non-profit stuff? Is it on-topic for this list? Regards, Paula -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 13:30 +0100, Sarah Chard wrote: > I would be very interested in the women's FOSS advocacy network - keep > me posted on that as well Hi Sarah - we hope to have this up and running in the next couple of weeks so will post something here :) Paula -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
O n Fri, 2011-06-10 at 12:17 +0100, gazz wrote: Hi Paula > OK sounds good! I need to look for some funding to develop this - > we're working on doing an Ubuntu-basics course for our non-profits and > this could be adapted for schools. We're also looking at doing some > programming basics workshops for schools. It's in the very early > stages (and I keep getting sidetracked cos we lost the bulk of our > funding in April and it's been a bit hellish) but I'll keep you > posted. please do keep me up to date with that > > Let me know if you happen to visit London, maybe we could meet up? I > think we're doing pretty similar work. Also, I'm in the process of > setting up a women's FOSS advocacy network with Anna from Open > Computers in Manc (who's also doing similar work) - I'll send you > details when we get under way? If I am down in London I'll let you know - it tends to be fleeting visits but it would be good to meet and I would be very interested in the women's FOSS advocacy network - keep me posted on that as well > > By the way, do you know Richard Ross-Langley who used to be the > circuit rider? He has good contacts with the VCS and comes down to the > FOSS Fridays frequently. No don't think I know Richard Sarah -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
Hello Gazz,Sarah : I'm also interested in developing materials in the area of introducing Ubuntu, as a non-profit. So please keep me in the information loop. I would like to contribute. Microsoft have embedded themselves in the schools/ university networks. Spending a massive amount of resources in maintaining a presence in these organisations. However many of the schools and universities are still using XP, largely because of the cost of upgrading. In the current economic climate they are certainly interested in at least benchmarking Ubuntu with Win 7. I know of one Uni seriously considering switching from Sage Quicken to GnuCash as well as to Gimp from Adobe Photoshop. With the biggest source of resistance being Sys Admins qualified in Windows networks. Its also worth remembering that in most schools / universities they are still not aware of the higher usability of Ubuntu for early users. John On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 12:17 +0100, gazz wrote: > > > On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 11:43 +0100, Sarah Chard wrote: > > O > > n Fri, 2011-06-10 at 11:15 +0100, gazz wrote: > > > We've previously found it difficult to do stuff in schools because > > > policy has rather dictated an emphasis on Microsoft Office skills > > > but this is changing and we're now looking at doing work in > > > schools - particularly to develop a new generation of > > > programmers. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Paula > > > > Paula > > > > We've talked about this quite a bit at our LUG meetings and have put > > special emphasis on contacting teachers and students for our open > > source events - > > we had some success at our March event as we had a number of > > students from the local 6th form college who attended. > > we are looking to build on this for our event in sept for software > > freedom day - so any ideas gratefully received > > I would be interested in developing material to make it easier for > > teachers / students to get started - it would be useful to have a > > resource that local LUGS and others could then tap into if they are > > trying to get interest in schools and colleges in their area. > > > > Sarah > > Hi Sarah - OK sounds good! I need to look for some funding to develop > this - we're working on doing an Ubuntu-basics course for our > non-profits and this could be adapted for schools. We're also looking > at doing some programming basics workshops for schools. It's in the > very early stages (and I keep getting sidetracked cos we lost the bulk > of our funding in April and it's been a bit hellish) but I'll keep you > posted. > > Let me know if you happen to visit London, maybe we could meet up? I > think we're doing pretty similar work. Also, I'm in the process of > setting up a women's FOSS advocacy network with Anna from Open > Computers in Manc (who's also doing similar work) - I'll send you > details when we get under way? > > By the way, do you know Richard Ross-Langley who used to be the > circuit rider? He has good contacts with the VCS and comes down to the > FOSS Fridays frequently. > > Paula -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On Fri, 2011-06-10 at 11:43 +0100, Sarah Chard wrote: > O > n Fri, 2011-06-10 at 11:15 +0100, gazz wrote: > > > We've previously found it difficult to do stuff in schools because > > policy has rather dictated an emphasis on Microsoft Office skills > > but this is changing and we're now looking at doing work in schools > > - particularly to develop a new generation of programmers. > > > > Regards, > > Paula > > > Paula > > We've talked about this quite a bit at our LUG meetings and have put > special emphasis on contacting teachers and students for our open > source events - > we had some success at our March event as we had a number of students > from the local 6th form college who attended. > we are looking to build on this for our event in sept for software > freedom day - so any ideas gratefully received > I would be interested in developing material to make it easier for > teachers / students to get started - it would be useful to have a > resource that local LUGS and others could then tap into if they are > trying to get interest in schools and colleges in their area. > > Sarah Hi Sarah - OK sounds good! I need to look for some funding to develop this - we're working on doing an Ubuntu-basics course for our non-profits and this could be adapted for schools. We're also looking at doing some programming basics workshops for schools. It's in the very early stages (and I keep getting sidetracked cos we lost the bulk of our funding in April and it's been a bit hellish) but I'll keep you posted. Let me know if you happen to visit London, maybe we could meet up? I think we're doing pretty similar work. Also, I'm in the process of setting up a women's FOSS advocacy network with Anna from Open Computers in Manc (who's also doing similar work) - I'll send you details when we get under way? By the way, do you know Richard Ross-Langley who used to be the circuit rider? He has good contacts with the VCS and comes down to the FOSS Fridays frequently. Paula -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
O n Fri, 2011-06-10 at 11:15 +0100, gazz wrote: > We've previously found it difficult to do stuff in schools because > policy has rather dictated an emphasis on Microsoft Office skills but > this is changing and we're now looking at doing work in schools - > particularly to develop a new generation of programmers. > > Regards, > Paula Paula We've talked about this quite a bit at our LUG meetings and have put special emphasis on contacting teachers and students for our open source events - we had some success at our March event as we had a number of students from the local 6th form college who attended. we are looking to build on this for our event in sept for software freedom day - so any ideas gratefully received I would be interested in developing material to make it easier for teachers / students to get started - it would be useful to have a resource that local LUGS and others could then tap into if they are trying to get interest in schools and colleges in their area. Sarah -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
Hi Sarah - totally agree! We've previously found it difficult to do stuff in schools because policy has rather dictated an emphasis on Microsoft Office skills but this is changing and we're now looking at doing work in schools - particularly to develop a new generation of programmers. Regards, Paula On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 20:27 +0100, Sarah Chard wrote: > O > n Thu, 2011-06-09 at 14:44 +0100, Avi Greenbury wrote: > > And here's the problem. odf is the better format, MS Office is the > > better office suite. > > > > I'm not at all convinced that the traction against OOo/LO is entirely > > (or even mostly) down to people being used to MS Office and, much as > > it > > might well be getting better in LO, MS Office has long been the more > > complete, polished, stable and predictable of the two. > > For the majority of people doing mundane office tasks as I do whilst > running my business I doubt there would be a substantial difference > using Libre/Open Office or MS Office > > MS Office may be better - I can't comment as I genuinely have never used > it - I started with Lotus (because that was on the first machine I had) > then switched to open source programs and finally made the move over to > Ubuntu as an OS - my business has been running on Ubuntu for several > years now. > And that is the point - people use MS office because it's what is on > their machines when they buy them and get used to using it. Most people > don't want to change - I was interested in open source for a range of > reasons and enjoy experimenting with programs but I know most people > find it very boring. > > Because M$ have a monopoly the open source office programs are ham > strung as they have to play catch-up trying to get their programs > working easily with the closed M$ formats - which their users will need > the programs to do as they will daily deal with others using MS office. > If the open doc formats were enforced by govt - it would help to level > the playing field and it would be easier for larger organisations to > start a switch to open source in front offices. > > I'm sure you all know the arguments > > That's why getting schools to teach about Open Source and explore the > alternatives is very important - then we may not need to 'convert' > users. > > Sarah > > > > > > > -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
O n Thu, 2011-06-09 at 14:44 +0100, Avi Greenbury wrote: > And here's the problem. odf is the better format, MS Office is the > better office suite. > > I'm not at all convinced that the traction against OOo/LO is entirely > (or even mostly) down to people being used to MS Office and, much as > it > might well be getting better in LO, MS Office has long been the more > complete, polished, stable and predictable of the two. For the majority of people doing mundane office tasks as I do whilst running my business I doubt there would be a substantial difference using Libre/Open Office or MS Office MS Office may be better - I can't comment as I genuinely have never used it - I started with Lotus (because that was on the first machine I had) then switched to open source programs and finally made the move over to Ubuntu as an OS - my business has been running on Ubuntu for several years now. And that is the point - people use MS office because it's what is on their machines when they buy them and get used to using it. Most people don't want to change - I was interested in open source for a range of reasons and enjoy experimenting with programs but I know most people find it very boring. Because M$ have a monopoly the open source office programs are ham strung as they have to play catch-up trying to get their programs working easily with the closed M$ formats - which their users will need the programs to do as they will daily deal with others using MS office. If the open doc formats were enforced by govt - it would help to level the playing field and it would be easier for larger organisations to start a switch to open source in front offices. I'm sure you all know the arguments That's why getting schools to teach about Open Source and explore the alternatives is very important - then we may not need to 'convert' users. Sarah -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
Heh, I sorta prefer the LO interface to the old OOo one - and older versions of Office to newer ones too. Woh! Just figured out how grid actually works on Unity - OK, it's making me feel a whole lot less grumpy about it. For anyone else who can't do a thing with their wretched multi-panes in Unity, click on 'grid' in the compiz settings manager (rather than trying to disable it, oops!) and you can control what windows do as you drag them around the desktop so they don't just do their own baffling thing and drive you nuts. With multiple panes in a single app, it seems you can make them (or any windows) jump around to different locations on the screen - or tile them two-up with a split-screen effect - hold ctrl+alt then hit the various keys on your number pad to see what they do. Drag them away from the edge and they spring back to original shape/place. Sorry for boring ppl who've already figured out Unity and I'll stop with the stream of consciousness now ;) - just thought lots of ppl are having bother with multiple panes on Unity and grid seems to be the key to getting them under control. I seem to have menus on non-max nautilus panes some of the time and not others - go figure! And now nautilus keeps whinging it can't mount an nfs share - which is already mounted so why was it even *trying* to mount it, eh? This is gonna be a long haul . . . Paula On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 14:37 +0100, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: > > Interestingly IMHO the appearance of both Open Office and Libre > Office > is more akin to Office 2003 than anything else! > And, the fact that he's installed the compatibility pack is > absolutely > NO guarantee at all that he will be able to open docx > documents. ;-) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
alan c wrote: It is not the same as physically having a chain of enslavement around the leg but if it was 'Freedom' being sold (it IS), exactly what price would that really be worth? Probably not a lot, really. I've not met many users of office suites who would make much use of the freedoms associated with using a free-as-in-freedom one. There's the indirect benefit of the freedom that is the rapid development cycle of free software, sure, but OOo has managed to neatly avoid providing that for several years and LO is still working on remedying that, rather than having it be a genuine benefit. -- Avi -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 09/06/11 14:17, Jon Reynolds wrote: Here's a follow up from my Dad after I berated him a little about giving up too easily but also understanding how he just wants to get on with work... Me: Ah you give up too easily, I am sure you could do what you want to do but it would be a bit of a learning curve. But I can see why you would want to just go back to what you're used to, if you don't mind paying for it. (Me) "And I do not 'do' Windows, I do not support that stuff. By all means do what you want but I do not want to support what I believe is stuff I think is bad for society. It is up to you. If you want freedom stuff ok, I will do what I can to help and support." -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 08/06/11 11:00, Jon Reynolds wrote: My dad uses Windows and recently it completely crashed and the local computer shop said it needed reinstalling. So he lost all his programs. He decided he was going to try OpenOffice, which I thought was great. I also pointed out Libre office to him. But unfortunately the outcome was that OpenOffice didn't do address labels the way he was used to and didn't like the way OO did 2-column layouts... or something like that so he's going back to MS. Think this is kind of typical of a lot of people. They learn how to do something one way and simply cannot be bothered to learn a different way. his attitude was that he didn't mind going to pay for MS because he knew he could just get on with what he wanted to do. He may be of the generation which was touched by a world war where people, probably including his relatives, fought and died. The motive was 'freedom'. Many (most) wars are associated with 'freedom'. When the problem gets as far as war, it is a tragedy, but I would ask him isn't it worth just a LITTLE effort to preserve the liberty which would otherwise be sold for a purchase price? It is not the same as physically having a chain of enslavement around the leg but if it was 'Freedom' being sold (it IS), exactly what price would that really be worth? -- Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
Sarah Chard wrote: that's why it's really important to keep pushing open document formats And here's the problem. odf is the better format, MS Office is the better office suite. I'm not at all convinced that the traction against OOo/LO is entirely (or even mostly) down to people being used to MS Office and, much as it might well be getting better in LO, MS Office has long been the more complete, polished, stable and predictable of the two. -- Avi. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 09/06/2011 14:17, Jon Reynolds wrote: Here's a follow up from my Dad after I berated him a little about giving up too easily but also understanding how he just wants to get on with work... Me: Ah you give up too easily, I am sure you could do what you want to do but it would be a bit of a learning curve. But I can see why you would want to just go back to what you're used to, if you don't mind paying for it. Dad: Perhaps I do, but too late. I'm now the proud possessor of a legitimate copy of Office 2003. Ok, Ok! But it's what I know and I just want to DO things, not mess about learning a new version. But I've added the latest service pack and a converter so I can open docx format. It was only 30 odd pounds anyway Interestingly IMHO the appearance of both Open Office and Libre Office is more akin to Office 2003 than anything else! And, the fact that he's installed the compatibility pack is absolutely NO guarantee at all that he will be able to open docx documents. ;-) -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
Here's a follow up from my Dad after I berated him a little about giving up too easily but also understanding how he just wants to get on with work... Me: Ah you give up too easily, I am sure you could do what you want to do but it would be a bit of a learning curve. But I can see why you would want to just go back to what you're used to, if you don't mind paying for it. Dad: Perhaps I do, but too late. I'm now the proud possessor of a legitimate copy of Office 2003. Ok, Ok! But it's what I know and I just want to DO things, not mess about learning a new version. But I've added the latest service pack and a converter so I can open docx format. It was only 30 odd pounds anyway -- Jon Reynolds (j0nr) http://www.jcrdevelopments.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 17:12 +0100, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: > On 08/06/2011 16:24, Grant Sewell wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:10 PM, J Fernyhough wrote: > >> On 8 June 2011 11:00, Jon Reynolds wrote: > >>> My dad uses Windows and recently it completely crashed and the local > >>> computer shop said it needed reinstalling. So he lost all his programs. > >>> > >> >>> Just maddened me a bit because he was willing to try free software... just > >>> didn't have enough willingness to learn a little bit more. > >>> > >>> Ho hum. > >>> > >> I reformatted my parents' laptops, made Ubuntu the single OS on one, > >> and made it the default boot in a dual-boot with Windows on the other > >> (they needed software that wouldn't run under WINE). They had no > >> option but to learn how to use it. > >> > >> I feel I should throw in a "muahaha!" > >> > >> Jonathon > > My advice to (some) who are willing to try Linux systems is to keep > > Windows installed, but don't make it an option in the boot menu - > > making it unnecessarily hard to boot into Windows has meant that some > > of them have been more inclined to figure out how to do XYZ in Linux > > rather than "just boot into Windows coz I now how to do it there". > > > I think that's a bit simplistic. > The major problem (IMHO) in using Linux instead of Windows for ordinary > users, is the difficulty with Office 2007 and 2010 documents, which are > becoming more and more > Email and web browsing is dead easy - it's the incompatibilities of > OOXML format documents with the Office suites available on Linux (Open > Office, Libre Office and all the others) that would seem to be the > problem, particularly as a) prior versions of Office are now being > replaced by 2007 and 2010 in which OOXML is the default and b) it would > seem to be the norm that Windows hides extensions of known file types by > default now such that the average user doesn't even KNOW they are saving > and opening OOXML files... > For example I've just opened a docx document designed as a tri-fold > brochure, in Libre Office. Because of the way Word is used, this > document makes use of tables with invisible borders. On opening this > even in Libre Office 3.4, the latest version, the formatting is all OVER > the place. It was actually easier to re-create the document from scratch > rather than to try to sort the formatting out... > That to me is the main obstacle in the take up of Linux - most of the > popular distros just "work out of the box" for most things now a days. > There's not a lot of figuring out to do. The other functions that the > average user uses in Windows, burning music CDs, sorting pictures etc > etc are very similar and very easy to use. It's this that is the problem... > It might be worth mentioning at this point that MS fonts cause a lot of the format compatibility problems. (Assuming that) if you have a legal version of Ms installed or just hold a legal licence to use it you can copy the fonts from Windows to /yourhomedir/.fonts In my case, I had horrendous problems with works docs that "must not" have fonts changed from company standards. Thanks to Ms closed source fonts - they were all over the place when opened in OOO [Libre Office wasn't around at that time]. I followed advice and checked the legality stated on [I think] on the forums and copied the whole lot. A practical solution is to compress the whole system/fonts folder from windows, store it in your Ubuntu system somewhere convenient, & when an Ms doc has a different font from the freely available downloads... open the compressed file, select font required & click 'install' [trust me - it's obvios when you do it]. You'll be surprised. I do not offer this as a panacea to all compatibility problems, merely as a soloution to some of them - learned and proved from own experience. Cheers, SuprEngr. ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 17:12 +0100, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: > The major problem (IMHO) in using Linux instead of Windows for > ordinary > users, is the difficulty with Office 2007 and 2010 documents, which > are > becoming more and more > Email and web browsing is dead easy - it's the incompatibilities of > OOXML format documents with the Office suites available on Linux > (Open > Office, Libre Office and all the others) that would seem to be the > problem, particularly as a) prior versions of Office are now being > replaced by 2007 and 2010 in which OOXML is the default and b) it > would > seem to be the norm that Windows hides extensions of known file types > by > default now such that the average user doesn't even KNOW they are > saving > and opening OOXML files... that's why it's really important to keep pushing open document formats It's the incompatibility issues which are a real problem not just for ordinary users but for take up by many businesses and in local government where problems using the Open Source office apps create a huge stumbling block to their adoption. It needs political will to really change things and force the use of open formats but in the mean time we all need to keep on making the case If you haven't taken a look at it, it's worth listening to Dr Wrights talk at HLUG's open source day in March as this is exactly what he was talking about http://www.youtube.com/user/HerefordshireLUG It's also the reason why it's vital to get schools and colleges at least thinking about teaching and using FOSS and Linux as has been discussed in other posts. Sarah -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 08/06/2011 17:25, Matthew Daubney wrote: Problem with OOXML is that it has incompatibilities between versions of MS Office... if MS can't make compatibility with their own products work, other people have very little chance! Absolutely. Plenty of posts on the MS Answers forum from people who have installed the Compatibility Pack on Office 2003 and STILL can't open OOXML documents... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 8 June 2011 17:12, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: > The major problem (IMHO) in using Linux instead of Windows for ordinary > users, is the difficulty with Office 2007 and 2010 documents, which are > becoming more and more > Email and web browsing is dead easy - it's the incompatibilities of OOXML > format documents with the Office suites available on Linux (Open Office, > Libre Office and all the others) that would seem to be the problem, > particularly as a) prior versions of Office are now being replaced by 2007 > and 2010 in which OOXML is the default and b) it would seem to be the norm > that Windows hides extensions of known file types by default now such that > the average user doesn't even KNOW they are saving and opening OOXML > files... Problem with OOXML is that it has incompatibilities between versions of MS Office... if MS can't make compatibility with their own products work, other people have very little chance! -Matt Daubney -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 08/06/2011 16:24, Grant Sewell wrote: On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:10 PM, J Fernyhough wrote: On 8 June 2011 11:00, Jon Reynolds wrote: My dad uses Windows and recently it completely crashed and the local computer shop said it needed reinstalling. So he lost all his programs. Just maddened me a bit because he was willing to try free software... just didn't have enough willingness to learn a little bit more. Ho hum. I reformatted my parents' laptops, made Ubuntu the single OS on one, and made it the default boot in a dual-boot with Windows on the other (they needed software that wouldn't run under WINE). They had no option but to learn how to use it. I feel I should throw in a "muahaha!" Jonathon My advice to (some) who are willing to try Linux systems is to keep Windows installed, but don't make it an option in the boot menu - making it unnecessarily hard to boot into Windows has meant that some of them have been more inclined to figure out how to do XYZ in Linux rather than "just boot into Windows coz I now how to do it there". I think that's a bit simplistic. The major problem (IMHO) in using Linux instead of Windows for ordinary users, is the difficulty with Office 2007 and 2010 documents, which are becoming more and more Email and web browsing is dead easy - it's the incompatibilities of OOXML format documents with the Office suites available on Linux (Open Office, Libre Office and all the others) that would seem to be the problem, particularly as a) prior versions of Office are now being replaced by 2007 and 2010 in which OOXML is the default and b) it would seem to be the norm that Windows hides extensions of known file types by default now such that the average user doesn't even KNOW they are saving and opening OOXML files... For example I've just opened a docx document designed as a tri-fold brochure, in Libre Office. Because of the way Word is used, this document makes use of tables with invisible borders. On opening this even in Libre Office 3.4, the latest version, the formatting is all OVER the place. It was actually easier to re-create the document from scratch rather than to try to sort the formatting out... That to me is the main obstacle in the take up of Linux - most of the popular distros just "work out of the box" for most things now a days. There's not a lot of figuring out to do. The other functions that the average user uses in Windows, burning music CDs, sorting pictures etc etc are very similar and very easy to use. It's this that is the problem... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 1:10 PM, J Fernyhough wrote: > On 8 June 2011 11:00, Jon Reynolds wrote: >> My dad uses Windows and recently it completely crashed and the local >> computer shop said it needed reinstalling. So he lost all his programs. >> > > >> Just maddened me a bit because he was willing to try free software... just >> didn't have enough willingness to learn a little bit more. >> >> Ho hum. >> > > I reformatted my parents' laptops, made Ubuntu the single OS on one, > and made it the default boot in a dual-boot with Windows on the other > (they needed software that wouldn't run under WINE). They had no > option but to learn how to use it. > > I feel I should throw in a "muahaha!" > > Jonathon My advice to (some) who are willing to try Linux systems is to keep Windows installed, but don't make it an option in the boot menu - making it unnecessarily hard to boot into Windows has meant that some of them have been more inclined to figure out how to do XYZ in Linux rather than "just boot into Windows coz I now how to do it there". Grant. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Example of difficulty to Convert MS users
On 8 June 2011 11:00, Jon Reynolds wrote: > My dad uses Windows and recently it completely crashed and the local > computer shop said it needed reinstalling. So he lost all his programs. > > Just maddened me a bit because he was willing to try free software... just > didn't have enough willingness to learn a little bit more. > > Ho hum. > I reformatted my parents' laptops, made Ubuntu the single OS on one, and made it the default boot in a dual-boot with Windows on the other (they needed software that wouldn't run under WINE). They had no option but to learn how to use it. I feel I should throw in a "muahaha!" Jonathon -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
