Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On Mon, 2011-02-21 at 23:39 +, Avi wrote: Bruno Girin wrote: There are plans to change this from 11.04 forward so that new software or new versions of existing software (like Firefox 4) can be included without having to manually add a PPA. Really? I thought PPA's were a reasonably elegant way of 'fixing' stability. Have you links to any more info on this? Well, I should have checked first, I'm not quite correct :-) The way I understand it, the improvements in software centre (apart from ratings and reviews) include an easier way to add PPAs, which should make new versions of software easier to discover without having to know what PPAs are. I can't find the exact details and the blueprint [1] is not as clear as it could be but my understanding is that's what is meant by making it possible for New applications [to] show up in the software center. [1] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-software-center-roadmap Cheers, Bruno -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 20 February 2011 13:54, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com wrote: *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style @Liam thing again, to anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't threaded as a response to me. My sincerest apologies, I shall avoid doing so in future. I've been trying to get my head around what you meant, and I hope the method I used above is the appropriate way you were referring to. On a lighter note, I hope the PPA solution I mentioned worked out okay for you. -- Regards, Haz -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 22/02/11 15:26, Hassan Haz Williamson wrote: On 20 February 2011 13:54, Liam Proven lpro...@gmail.com mailto:lpro...@gmail.com wrote: *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style @Liam thing again, to anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't threaded as a response to me. My sincerest apologies, I shall avoid doing so in future. I've been trying to get my head around what you meant, and I hope the method I used above is the appropriate way you were referring to. Wow! Hassan, if you are replying to several people in one message then using @soandso is fine by me. :-) I do not think we need to be so prescriptive as to require rules about the syntax of how to reply. It's the same as top or bottom posting. I prefer bottom posting, but it's not the end of the world if peeps use top. This just is a mailing list for any one (normal people geeks) to discuss Ubuntu related stuff. Al -- The Open Learning Centre http://www.theopenlearningcentre.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 22 Feb 2011 16:28, Alan Lord (News) alansli...@gmail.com wrote: Wow! Hassan, if you are replying to several people in one message then using @soandso is fine by me. :-) I do not think we need to be so prescriptive as to require rules about the syntax of how to reply. It's the same as top or bottom posting. I prefer bottom posting, but it's not the end of the world if peeps use top. This just is a mailing list for any one (normal people geeks) to discuss Ubuntu related stuff. Al -- The Open Learning Centre http://www.theopenlearningcentre.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ Agreed, Al. It's that kind of thing that puts people of. Oh, and if this is a top post, blame Google for Android is coded, as I've never found a setting to change it. Oh, nevermind. Turns out you just need to respond inline and scroll to the bottom, instead of having a default for quoted messages. What a pain. -Mehall -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 20/02/11 13:54, Liam Proven wrote: The following, although it may seem petter, isn't. It's important. I don't want to seem ungrateful but it's kind of a big deal. For you it maybe. For many others I doubt it very much. *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style @Liam thing again, to anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't threaded as a response to me. Is that an order to everyone? I'm not sure I like being ordered about how to reply to a mailing list... There are *all* kinds of folks on here who have their own motivations, skill levels and experience. I think we all need to be as welcoming and accommodating as possible. Cheers Al PS: I'm reading, writing and replying to this, and many other mailing lists, via nntp on gmane.org - this message will probably be in the right place in my newsgroup thread if I decide to view it threaded; although mostly I view by *date* anyway. -- The Open Learning Centre http://www.theopenlearningcentre.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On Tue, 2011-02-22 at 17:00 +, Alan Lord (News) wrote: On 20/02/11 13:54, Liam Proven wrote: The following, although it may seem petter, isn't. It's important. I don't want to seem ungrateful but it's kind of a big deal. For you it maybe. For many others I doubt it very much. *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style @Liam thing again, to anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't threaded as a response to me. Is that an order to everyone? I'm not sure I like being ordered about how to reply to a mailing list... There are *all* kinds of folks on here who have their own motivations, skill levels and experience. I think we all need to be as welcoming and accommodating as possible. Cheers Al PS: I'm reading, writing and replying to this, and many other mailing lists, via nntp on gmane.org - this message will probably be in the right place in my newsgroup thread if I decide to view it threaded; although mostly I view by *date* anyway. My Thoughts: I've never got the issue with peoples responses. The only one I kinda get is the top posting where it becomes increasingly annoying to follow on the bulk mails. I find as long as someone has the answer for me then I'm happy that is after all why most of us ask questions on the list anyway. -- Seek That Thy Might Know http://www.davmor2.co.uk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 22 Feb 2011, at 17:55, Dave Morley davm...@davmor2.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 2011-02-22 at 17:00 +, Alan Lord (News) wrote: On 20/02/11 13:54, Liam Proven wrote: The following, although it may seem petter, isn't. It's important. I don't want to seem ungrateful but it's kind of a big deal. For you it maybe. For many others I doubt it very much. *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style @Liam thing again, to anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't threaded as a response to me. Is that an order to everyone? I'm not sure I like being ordered about how to reply to a mailing list... There are *all* kinds of folks on here who have their own motivations, skill levels and experience. I think we all need to be as welcoming and accommodating as possible. Cheers Al PS: I'm reading, writing and replying to this, and many other mailing lists, via nntp on gmane.org - this message will probably be in the right place in my newsgroup thread if I decide to view it threaded; although mostly I view by *date* anyway. My Thoughts: I've never got the issue with peoples responses. The only one I kinda get is the top posting where it becomes increasingly annoying to follow on the bulk mails. I find as long as someone has the answer for me then I'm happy that is after all why most of us ask questions on the list anyway. -- Seek That Thy Might Know http://www.davmor2.co.uk -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ Wow... This thread deviated from the original topic a bit, didn't it. My 2p worth, though - I don't have an issue with the @ style reply, infact I kind of find it better if you respond to multiple people in the same mail. The top post/bottom post I understand, to keep the flow of the thread easier to read, and so make a conscious effort to bottom post (iPhone top posts for some reason). Thanks and Regards, Liam Gallear -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
Bruno Girin wrote: There are plans to change this from 11.04 forward so that new software or new versions of existing software (like Firefox 4) can be included without having to manually add a PPA. Really? I thought PPA's were a reasonably elegant way of 'fixing' stability. Have you links to any more info on this? -- Avi -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan Haz Williamson wrote: @Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion of it. @Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing LibreOffice with the PPA. If I recall the PPA supports 10.04, 10.10 and 11.04. I'll list the commands for it below for you: *sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/ppa* * * *sudo apt-get update* * * *sudo apt-get install libreoffice* If your using gnome, then also run this for it to integrate better: *sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome* For KDE: *sudo apt-get install libreoffice-kde* There is an article somewhere on omgubuntu.co.uk about this. I'll link it at the end for reference. This will install LibreOffice just like any other application you'd find in the ubuntu repo's. So you'll get your menu item, document file type associations, etc... Enjoy :). I really don't understand why the one on the LibreOffice website is so complicated to try and get it to work. It might scare some people away from using it, which would be a shame. I'm sure they'll make it easier as time passes though. Hope this helps you out, and hopefully others who many be having trouble getting LibreOffice to work. Is there anything significant preventing LO being put into the Ubuntu Software Centre? When LO gets into Ubuntu as it will, in 11.04, I will certainly use it, but my tech experience level is not really sufficient to effortlessly manage PPAs and the possible complication of the existing Open Office too. If LO was to be available in the Ubuntu Software Centre then I would use it now. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 20 February 2011 10:30, alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com wrote: On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan Haz Williamson wrote: @Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion of it. @Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing LibreOffice with the PPA. If I recall the PPA supports 10.04, 10.10 and 11.04. I'll list the commands for it below for you: *sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/ppa* * * *sudo apt-get update* * * *sudo apt-get install libreoffice* If your using gnome, then also run this for it to integrate better: *sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome* For KDE: *sudo apt-get install libreoffice-kde* There is an article somewhere on omgubuntu.co.uk about this. I'll link it at the end for reference. This will install LibreOffice just like any other application you'd find in the ubuntu repo's. So you'll get your menu item, document file type associations, etc... Enjoy :). I really don't understand why the one on the LibreOffice website is so complicated to try and get it to work. It might scare some people away from using it, which would be a shame. I'm sure they'll make it easier as time passes though. Hope this helps you out, and hopefully others who many be having trouble getting LibreOffice to work. Is there anything significant preventing LO being put into the Ubuntu Software Centre? When LO gets into Ubuntu as it will, in 11.04, I will certainly use it, but my tech experience level is not really sufficient to effortlessly manage PPAs and the possible complication of the existing Open Office too. If LO was to be available in the Ubuntu Software Centre then I would use it now. -- I would guess that it's Canonical policy: the office suite is seen as a core component in Desktop and as such is maintained.OO and LO probably don't exactly coexist in Linux so having one or the other is a practical consideration as well as a policy decision. s/ -- Twitter: @sfgreenwood My CV: http://bit.ly/sfg http://bit.ly/sfgreenwood_cv_new_cv Is this your sanderling? -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On Sun, 2011-02-20 at 11:37 +, Simon Greenwood wrote: snip Is there anything significant preventing LO being put into the Ubuntu Software Centre? When LO gets into Ubuntu as it will, in 11.04, I will certainly use it, but my tech experience level is not really sufficient to effortlessly manage PPAs and the possible complication of the existing Open Office too. If LO was to be available in the Ubuntu Software Centre then I would use it now. -- I would guess that it's Canonical policy: the office suite is seen as a core component in Desktop and as such is maintained.OO and LO probably don't exactly coexist in Linux so having one or the other is a practical consideration as well as a policy decision. I think the main reason is that at the moment, all software in the software centre for a given cycle (say 10.10) is fixed at the time of the release, down to the actual version of the software. The only thing that get in the repos of a released version of Ubuntu are fixes. There are plans to change this from 11.04 forward so that new software or new versions of existing software (like Firefox 4) can be included without having to manually add a PPA. Besides, the libreoffice package will actually remove openoffice.org when you install it, not because they don't like OOo but because the two suites have too much in common while having subtle differences and as you say above having both of them side by side would mean a lot of potential complications. Cheers, Bruno -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 6:05 AM, Hassan Haz Williamson h...@hazrpg.co.uk wrote: @Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing LibreOffice with the PPA. Thanks for the tip, I shall look into it. I don't recall how I installed LO on my desktop, but I don't see any repos for LO in my sources.list so I guess I must have just downloaded it. The following, although it may seem petter, isn't. It's important. I don't want to seem ungrateful but it's kind of a big deal. *Please*, do not use that bulletin-board style @Liam thing again, to anyone on any mailing list. I missed your message because it wasn't threaded as a response to me. The *only* reason for @username is on crappy flat fora with no threading - it enables you to direct responses when the software is too crap, broken and pathetic to support threading, which has been a standard feature of email and newsgroups for about 35 years now. Or, of course, that the authors are too damned stupid to have implemented it. This is the reason I don't use the Ubuntu fora and won't use web fora in general unless there is no alternative. No threading means a useless, chaotic mess. If you'd replied to me, my email client would have told me about it. As it was, you didn't, you only replied to Mac and I happened to stumble across the message revisiting the thread. -- Liam Proven • Info profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
I really don't understand why the one on the LibreOffice website is so complicated to try and get it to work. It might scare some people away from using it, which would be a shame. I'm sure they'll make it easier as time passes though. e-mail them and say it looks complex and why, they are open to suggestions and comments, or i have found oss projects are in general paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan Haz Williamson wrote: @Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing LibreOffice with the PPA. The one MAJOR problem with doing it that way is if you don't use Evolution for email. The ppa version will NOT use any other address book as a source for addresses in mail merges...whereas the version directly from LO will -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 19/02/11 10:26, Neil Greenwood wrote: On 19 Feb 2011, at 08:59, Gordon Burgess-Parker gbpli...@gmail.com wrote: On 19/02/11 06:05, Hassan Haz Williamson wrote: @Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing LibreOffice with the PPA. The one MAJOR problem with doing it that way is if you don't use Evolution for email. The ppa version will NOT use any other address book as a source for addresses in mail merges...whereas the version directly from LO will That sounds like a bug, or at least a feature request. Cofion/regards, Neil. It's certainly not a bug - it's been a missing feature for a long time AFAIR -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 19 February 2011 07:00, mac ammonius.grammati...@gmx.co.uk wrote: On 19/02/2011 06:05, Hassan Haz Williamson wrote: @Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion of it. Yes, you'd expect Oracle to want to make money - it's what they do - and that means only giving (some) things to people who pay. So they're bound to look for ways of doing that with stuff that Sun used to give away for nothing. I don't think that interaction with the Oracle RDBMS would necessarily be a bad move, or MySQL which - of course - is also now Oracle's. Having worked with Oracle for 22 years I think I perhaps have less distrust of Larry Ellison's company than some - let's face it, Sun Microsystems were no less corporate than Oracle yet nobody seemed to have the issues with them they do now that Oracle owns the code. I recall in 1989 actually being credited for a feature in Oracle 6, the company used to regularly solicit suggestions from companies using their tools. Sun wasn't any more not for profit than Oracle is. I'm trying to think what our Solaris servers cost back in 1993... I think for 4 workstations and a server it was somewhere around £500,000. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 19/02/2011 13:16, Sean Miller wrote: Having worked with Oracle for 22 years I think I perhaps have less distrust of Larry Ellison's company than some Oh, I don't distrust them. On the contrary, I trust them to do what they do very well: invent ways of making money. In the case of OOo, that will mean trying to 'extend' and 'monetise' it. snip Sun wasn't any more not for profit than Oracle is. I'm trying to think what our Solaris servers cost back in 1993 Yes, indeed, of course Sun did sell things for profit - but not Open Office, which Oracle will want to find ways of making money out of. And one guesses they will do that by introducing proprietary 'enhancements'. So if you want 'free' in both senses, looks like Libre Office is the only show in town. mac -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:44 AM, mac ammonius.grammati...@gmx.co.uk wrote: Just to follow up the recent thread - I guess some but not all of us may have come across this: http://www.infoworld.com/d/applications/open-office-dilemma-openofficeorg-vs-libreoffice-716 Interesting - thanks for that. I have LibreOffice 3.3 running fine on my Ubuntu 10.04 desktop. The only snag is that it doesn't respect GTK themes nor use GNOME dialog boxes, so it looks out of place. Works OK, though. Oddly, here on my notebook, running 10.10, when I tried to download OO.o 3.3, I got a big (~145MB) archive containing a script which, when run, announced that it was skipping every single component. Why, I do not know. Manually installing all the .DEB packages resulted in a few min of chugging away, and the packages being installed according to Synaptic, but no menu entries and no oowriter command available at the shell prompt. I removed it, and removed the built-in OO.o 3.2, then reinstalled 3.3. No difference. I removed it again, redownloaded a fresh copy and tried again. Same thing. I removed it, downloaded LibreOffice 3.3 instead, but the website gave me not a final version but RC4. A 2nd redownload was the same. So I've reinstalled the Ubuntu packaged OO.o 3.2. At least it works. -- Liam Proven • Info profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lpro...@gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AIM/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven • MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • ICQ: 73187508 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
@Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion of it. @Liam, You could have saved yourself some heart ache by just installing LibreOffice with the PPA. If I recall the PPA supports 10.04, 10.10 and 11.04. I'll list the commands for it below for you: *sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/ppa* * * *sudo apt-get update* * * *sudo apt-get install libreoffice* If your using gnome, then also run this for it to integrate better: *sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome* For KDE: *sudo apt-get install libreoffice-kde* There is an article somewhere on omgubuntu.co.uk about this. I'll link it at the end for reference. This will install LibreOffice just like any other application you'd find in the ubuntu repo's. So you'll get your menu item, document file type associations, etc... Enjoy :). I really don't understand why the one on the LibreOffice website is so complicated to try and get it to work. It might scare some people away from using it, which would be a shame. I'm sure they'll make it easier as time passes though. Hope this helps you out, and hopefully others who many be having trouble getting LibreOffice to work. -- Regards, Haz P.S. Found the omgubuntu article that describes what I've wrote above. Here it is: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/new-ppa-makes-installing-libreoffice-on-ubuntu-easy/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] LibreOffice vs OpenOffice
On 19/02/2011 06:05, Hassan Haz Williamson wrote: @Mac, Thanks for that. Interesting read. Personally I'm going where the developers are, I have a feeling that Oracle might try to swing things to their favour and might close down some aspects of OOo - either that or try to incorporate their own proprietary database system in somehow. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion of it. Yes, you'd expect Oracle to want to make money - it's what they do - and that means only giving (some) things to people who pay. So they're bound to look for ways of doing that with stuff that Sun used to give away for nothing. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
