Re: [OT?] Modifying (Unicode) sorting of languages using diacritics in MS Word and MS SQL Server
C J Fynn a Ãcrit : Patrick Andries wrote: [PA] Let me be reasonable as you kindly suggest, how about proper French Canadian (CAN/CSA Z243.4.1 standard (which you most probably know) and ISO/IEC 14651 with the delta corresponding to the latter) or Khmer sorting ? There are other databases which run on MS Windows that accept "tailored" collation deltas (as in ISO/IEC 14651 ) - so if you are not happy with MS SQL Server you can always use something else. [PA] Yes, I know. Customers don't always leave you a choice... [And some people pretend that free market invariably tends towards the best solution...] P. A.
Re: [OT?] Modifying (Unicode) sorting of languages using diacritics in MS Word and MS SQL Server
Patrick Andries wrote: > [PA] Let me be reasonable as you kindly suggest, how about proper French > Canadian (CAN/CSA Z243.4.1 standard (which you most probably know) and > ISO/IEC 14651 with the delta corresponding to the latter) or Khmer sorting ? There are other databases which run on MS Windows that accept "tailored" collation deltas (as in ISO/IEC 14651 ) - so if you are not happy with MS SQL Server you can always use something else. - Chris
Re: [OT?] Modifying (Unicode) sorting of languages using diacritics in MS Word and MS SQL Server
Michael (michka) Kaplan a Ãcrit : [PA] Let me be reasonable as you kindly suggest, how about proper French Canadian (CAN/CSA Z243.4.1 standard (which you most probably know) and ISO/IEC 14651 with the delta corresponding to the latter) or Khmer sorting ? I am unaware of any specific non-conformant pieces in Windows in regard to the former standard. [PA] Well, may I suggest an offline discussion with Alain Labontà (cc'ed) ? He is more aware of this issue than I am. I believe he has already transmitted his concern relative to this non-conformance through other channels in Microsoft (subsidiaires and other members of the Unicode consortium). P. A.
Re: [OT?] Modifying (Unicode) sorting of languages using diacritics in MS Word and MS SQL Server
From: "Patrick Andries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > [PA] Yes, the GUI tool is very nice. So easy to use in theory that I > don't understand why it is only available in English (i.e. one does not > need to be a techie and "thus" know English to be able or want to use > this tool). Well, the tool is localizable, but none of the subsidiaries have yet expressed the desire. One never knows what the future may hold though > [PA] Let me be reasonable as you kindly suggest, how about proper French > Canadian (CAN/CSA Z243.4.1 standard (which you most probably know) and > ISO/IEC 14651 with the delta corresponding to the latter) or Khmer sorting ? I am unaware of any specific non-conformant pieces in Windows in regard to the former standard. Proper linguistic sorting for Khmer is a *lot* more complicated. It is not there now, definitely. MichKa [MS] NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
Re: [OT?] Modifying (Unicode) sorting of languages using diacritics in MS Word and MS SQL Server
Michael (michka) Kaplan a Ãcrit : From: "Patrick Andries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have the same question for MS SQL Server 2000... Similar answer to the one Chris gave for Word, though with a slightly older version of the Windows sort tables Finally, I would like to know if it is possible for a user to add an additional language to the ones appearing in the Windows regional and language options, so as to assign to it, for instance, some keyboard layouts. This is not currently possible. But the user can certainly create a new keyboard (now with an easy GUI tool) and the system will handle all that is typed with it. [PA] Yes, the GUI tool is very nice. So easy to use in theory that I don't understand why it is only available in English (i.e. one does not need to be a techie and "thus" know English to be able or want to use this tool). P.-S. : Do Word, SQL Server 2000 and the Regional and Language options window support all Unicode 4.0 associated languages as far as proper sorting and addition of keyboards are concerned ? It is hard to know what you mean here -- are you asking for when every single character in Unicode 4.0 will be in some keyboard and some linguistically appropriate sort, all built into Windows? Or did you have a more practical (and reasonable) target in mind? [PA] Let me be reasonable as you kindly suggest, how about proper French Canadian (CAN/CSA Z243.4.1 standard (which you most probably know) and ISO/IEC 14651 with the delta corresponding to the latter) or Khmer sorting ? P. A.
Re: [OT?] Modifying (Unicode) sorting of languages using diacritics in MS Word and MS SQL Server
From: "Patrick Andries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I have the same question for MS SQL Server 2000... Similar answer to the one Chris gave for Word, though with a slightly older version of the Windows sort tables > Finally, I would like to know if it is possible for a user to add > an additional language to the ones appearing in the Windows regional and > language options, so as to assign to it, for instance, some keyboard > layouts. This is not currently possible. But the user can certainly create a new keyboard (now with an easy GUI tool) and the system will handle all that is typed with it. > P.-S. : Do Word, SQL Server 2000 and the Regional and Language options > window support all Unicode 4.0 associated languages as far as proper > sorting and addition of keyboards are concerned ? It is hard to know what you mean here -- are you asking for when every single character in Unicode 4.0 will be in some keyboard and some linguistically appropriate sort, all built into Windows? Or did you have a more practical (and reasonable) target in mind? > If not, when will these products do so ? Well, see above. MichKa [MS] NLS Collation/Locale/Keyboard Development Globalization Infrastructure and Font Technologies
RE: [OT?] Modifying (Unicode) sorting of languages using diacritics in MS Word and MS SQL Server
Word uses sort orders provided by the system, so if it is not there, you wouldn't be able to use it. Same with additional language IDs - the system defines a set of languages which Word is using. Windows XP was shipped well before Unicode 4.0 came out, and Word2003 was shipped just after Unicode 4.0 came out, so not much that is unique to 4.0 is supported. Support will increase in the next release, but exactly which language sand in what ways are not easy to say right now. The Windows tram would have a better idea. They just announced support for all the major Indian languages, for instance. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Andries Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 4:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT?] Modifying (Unicode) sorting of languages using diacritics in MS Word and MS SQL Server Hello, I would like to know if the collating order used by Word may be tailored by the user to sort properly letters using diacritics in a language not appearing in the list of languages by Word. A simple sort by character number will obviously not work. I have the same question for MS SQL Server 2000... Finally, I would like to know if it is possible for a user to add an additional language to the ones appearing in the Windows regional and language options, so as to assign to it, for instance, some keyboard layouts. Many thanks, Patrick Andries P.-S. : Do Word, SQL Server 2000 and the Regional and Language options window support all Unicode 4.0 associated languages as far as proper sorting and addition of keyboards are concerned ? If not, when will these products do so ?
