date:20110811

I'll check out the executionContexts.

The reason for the architecture is to make it as easy as possible for users
of the utility to start using its library, install its front scripts, get
its behavior scripts recognised and open it's internal files.  With this
architecture, the only statement they need to include in their application
initialisation script is this one dispatch command instead of a start using,
an insert front script, setting the correct stackFiles property, and opening
several files.  I'm quite open to other suggestions as to how else to do
this - so far this is the shortest way I can think of.

Pete
Molly's Revenge 

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:43 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Pete-
>
> Thursday, August 11, 2011, 9:41:49 PM, you wrote:
>
> > The dispatch methodology works fine but I'm finding that using "the
> target"
> > or "me" in the external stack's handler resolves to the external library
> > stack file not the stack that issued the dispatch command.  I can, of
> > course, include the name of the dispatching stack as a parameter to the
> > handler but I'm wondering if there is a way to track down the dispatching
> > stack's name in these circumstances.
>
> In short, if you've gotten into this situation then it's time to
> rearchitect your application. You shouldn't have to ask this question.
> You're fighting the message path, and while what you want to do can be
> done, it ain't the right way to do things.
>
> That said, if you don't want to pass the calling stack as an argument
> you need to look at the executionContexts to get the call stack.
>
> --
> -Mark Wieder
>  mwie...@ahsoftware.net
>
>
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RE: Cursor woes

2011-08-11 Thread FlexibleLearning

Looks like 2 issues here. First getting the cursor to stick; second getting
the correct cursor display.

Lock/Unlock cursor should resolve the first; importing and using your own
cursor image should resolve the second.

local cHand=999100
local cArrow=999101

on mouseEnter
  if "button" is word 1 of the target then
set the cursor to cHand
  else set the cursor to cArrow
  lock cursor
end mouseEnter

on mouseLeave
  unlock cursor
  pass mouseLeave
end mouseLeave


Hugh Senior
FLCo


Chip Thomas wrote:

Having some trouble changing the cursor, and hope someone can help shed some
light on the topic.

I have a "mouseEnter" script on the main card that checks if the target is a
"button".  If it's a button, it sets the cursor to hand.  If not, it sets it
to arrow.

I've tried implementing this in two different projects.

One project is a launcher system where the standalone just launches a
separate main stack file.  The cursor script is on the card of this stack
file.  In this project, I don't get any cursor changes except when in the
development environment.

The second project is just a regular standalone with the cursor script on
the main card of the standalone.  I do get a cursor change, but I get a
watch rather than a hand.

Argh!  Any help would be much appreciated.


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Re: Back to LC & Inventive Users


On 08/12/2011 01:01 AM, Judy Perry wrote:
I have a vague notion of a hands-on assignment for my classes next 
term involving having them use the 30-day demo and making something 
semi-interesting (to them) in LC.


Apparently I did a really sucky job of articulating this to the first 
person I asked, so, here I try, try again, this time including my 
necessary caveats and reasons why:


If you had a month, meaning, 4 long sessions or 8 shorter sessions, to 
get an absolute Joe Public to make something small but 
semi-interesting in LC, i.e., something they couldn't do in 
PowerPoint, what are the top 5 things you'd want them to learn about 
programming?


I mean, I'm guessing it's something like IDE, Stack-Card metaphor, 
commands, functions, conditionals, variables...  but I'm looking for 
those categories along with some specific examples per my caveats below.


CAVEATS:

1.  This is a General Education class meaning students either have to 
take this "Computers and Society" course or some biology course 
involving dissection.  This means they don't particularly want to take 
this class but it strikes them as less gross than dissecting worms or 
heaven know what.  But, seriously:  nobody really wants to be there.


2.  #1 above means that student engagement is a MUST.  The point of 
the assignment is NOT to make them hate using computers.  #1 also 
means that some of them barely know how to do attachments with email.  
It also means that some of them are downright computer-phobic.


3.  No "Hello World."  Sorry, but "Hello World" is a distinct 
historical and cultural artifact to which this audience simply will 
not relate.  One of the rules of interactive system design is that 
using a computer to do something should always offer some seriously 
compelling reason to do it that way as opposed to the way they know, 
and writing three lines of script to put "Hello World" into a text 
field isn't likely to sound more compelling that simply typing it in 
the field themselves.  The point of the assignment is NOT to turn them 
into programmers but to help them appreciate some of the things that 
go into the applications they use everyday and some of the things 
those programmers have to contend with/know.


4.  Each step or lesson along the way needs to result in something 
that is engaging to the learner.  Current adult learning theory is 
that adults need, yupp, instant gratification, or at least be able to 
see that they are getting somewhere.


5.  No standalone production (I don't want to have to guess at what 
they didn't do correctly).  We may do revlets though.


Ideas, suggestions gratefully accepted; otherwise, I'll just wing it 
like I usually do.  ;-)


I, in these type of situations, get them to make a "copy" of a pocket 
calculator.


However, I "don't know" what " IDE, Stack-Card metaphor, commands, 
functions, conditionals, variables..." are . . . I "do know" what 
'containers' and 'beads' are!


Certainly, a calculator that can do +, -, * and / in 90 minutes is 
fairly good in the instant grats stakes.




Judy

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship


On 08/11/2011 11:49 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 8/11/11 12:16 PM, Warren Samples wrote:

The issue of payment and distibution is far more varied
and complex than most of you seem to be aware of or willing to
consider. As consumers your interests only reflect a very limited
perspective.


When faced with a decision like this, I substitute "my software" for 
"music" and see how I'd feel about it.




My software comes in two versions: the FREE version and the 
ever-progressing 30
day "Demo" (which is fully functional). I am well aware that IFF my 
'Pro' ever becomes
successful people will start pirating it [in fact I found my FREE 
version on a pirate site, when doing a Google to see how 'viral' it was; 
the ultimate accolade], therefore I run a school to fill my fridge. I 
also make some money running around sorting out people's computers.


I don't steal software (and as I can really not afford anything I use 
Open Source alternatives) and I don't download music I don't already 
own. However, I have downloaded mp3 files of my favourite gramophone 
records; as far as I can see, the only difference between that and 
hooking my gramophone up to the computer and converting the music is a 
matter of blood, sweat and tears.


So far I have made the princely sum of 8 Euros from my software . . .  :)

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Re: dispatch and the target

2011-08-11 Thread Mark Wieder

Pete-

Thursday, August 11, 2011, 9:41:49 PM, you wrote:

> The dispatch methodology works fine but I'm finding that using "the target"
> or "me" in the external stack's handler resolves to the external library
> stack file not the stack that issued the dispatch command.  I can, of
> course, include the name of the dispatching stack as a parameter to the
> handler but I'm wondering if there is a way to track down the dispatching
> stack's name in these circumstances.

In short, if you've gotten into this situation then it's time to
rearchitect your application. You shouldn't have to ask this question.
You're fighting the message path, and while what you want to do can be
done, it ain't the right way to do things.

That said, if you don't want to pass the calling stack as an argument
you need to look at the executionContexts to get the call stack.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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dispatch and the target

I have a situation where I want to dispatch a message from a preopenstack
handler to a stack in an external library stack which, at the time of the
dispatch, has not yet been loaded into memory.  The handler for the message
in the external stack carries out various initialization functions,
including setting a custom property in the the stack that issued the
dispatch command.

The dispatch methodology works fine but I'm finding that using "the target"
or "me" in the external stack's handler resolves to the external library
stack file not the stack that issued the dispatch command.  I can, of
course, include the name of the dispatching stack as a parameter to the
handler but I'm wondering if there is a way to track down the dispatching
stack's name in these circumstances.

Thanks,

Pete
Molly's Revenge 
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Re: Back to LC & Inventive Users


Many kind thanks to all who have thus far replied :-)

Tim:




The usual hyperCard tutorial stacks included address books, index your CDs (now 
DVDs or MP3s). These were good learning experiences that could produce truly 
useful stacks.


--This was another matter I was pondering:  exactly what kinds of 
scaffolding materials to provide.  I clearly don't have the time to 
duplicate all the ReadyMade template stacks provided, but remember with 
particular fondness the "ReadyMade Fields" and "ReadyMade Buttons" stacks.


For example, one of the things we will be discussing that unit is the 
disaster of the Therac-25, in which a mechanical safety lock was removed 
which prevented the device operator from inadvertently inputting a lethal 
amount of radiation.  I might give them an assignment to create a card 
that has a button requesting the user to input a radiation amount and have 
them check the char count or some such thing of anything beyond a 
therapeutical amount; have it check minimum and maximum.  This is one 
example of the sorts of learning outcomes I'm looking to reinforce.  The 
problem of division by zero is another.  (These are admittedly uncool, 
unengaging examples, but they could be sub-assignments that teach a 
concept that lead to their creating something pertaining to their own 
interest using certain concepts taught.)


And thank you for mentioning TTS.  Anybody can type "Hello World" into a 
field, but not everybody knows how to make their computer talk, much less 
using goofy Mac OS voices ;-)  No, it's not very important in learning to 
program but it IS engaging and thus possibly want to try harder things.


Judy

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Re: Back to LC & Inventive Users

2011-08-11 Thread Timothy Miller

Maybe interactive tutorial or flash-card type projects that will help your 
students succeed in their other subjects.

When my kids were grades 1-2-3 I used hypercard to write a number of really 
cool phonics instruction stacks. Kept adding features. Text-to-speech. Rhyming. 
English-like phonics combinations that aren't really English words. Keeping 
track of difficulty and success, identifying which items have been learned to 
criterion, which ones need more practice.

It's easy enough to do the same sort of thing with math facts, vocabulary, 
chemistry, or whatever.

The basics for this kind of stack are pretty easy. Because LC is 
object-oriented, it's easy and fun for the more capable students to attempt new 
and creative features. They learn nothing bad happens if they click on a button 
that has a bad script in it. You can start with really basic functionality and 
gradually add features, in accordance with criterion 4, below.

Similar projects might include interactive personal journal or diary projects. 
Many possibilities for organizing creative writing, if some of your students 
are into that.

How about a "bucket list" stack. I.e., keeping track of the things I want to do 
before I die, and how to make them happen.

The usual hyperCard tutorial stacks included address books, index your CDs (now 
DVDs or MP3s). These were good learning experiences that could produce truly 
useful stacks.

Tim

On Aug 11, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> I have a vague notion of a hands-on assignment for my classes next term 
> involving having them use the 30-day demo and making something 
> semi-interesting (to them) in LC.
> 
> Apparently I did a really sucky job of articulating this to the first person 
> I asked, so, here I try, try again, this time including my necessary caveats 
> and reasons why:
> 
> If you had a month, meaning, 4 long sessions or 8 shorter sessions, to get an 
> absolute Joe Public to make something small but semi-interesting in LC, i.e., 
> something they couldn't do in PowerPoint, what are the top 5 things you'd 
> want them to learn about programming?
> 
> I mean, I'm guessing it's something like IDE, Stack-Card metaphor, commands, 
> functions, conditionals, variables...  but I'm looking for those categories 
> along with some specific examples per my caveats below.
> 
> CAVEATS:
> 
> 1.  This is a General Education class meaning students either have to take 
> this "Computers and Society" course or some biology course involving 
> dissection.  This means they don't particularly want to take this class but 
> it strikes them as less gross than dissecting worms or heaven know what.  
> But, seriously:  nobody really wants to be there.
> 
> 2.  #1 above means that student engagement is a MUST.  The point of the 
> assignment is NOT to make them hate using computers.  #1 also means that some 
> of them barely know how to do attachments with email.  It also means that 
> some of them are downright computer-phobic.
> 
> 3.  No "Hello World."  Sorry, but "Hello World" is a distinct historical and 
> cultural artifact to which this audience simply will not relate.  One of the 
> rules of interactive system design is that using a computer to do something 
> should always offer some seriously compelling reason to do it that way as 
> opposed to the way they know, and writing three lines of script to put "Hello 
> World" into a text field isn't likely to sound more compelling that simply 
> typing it in the field themselves.  The point of the assignment is NOT to 
> turn them into programmers but to help them appreciate some of the things 
> that go into the applications they use everyday and some of the things those 
> programmers have to contend with/know.
> 
> 4.  Each step or lesson along the way needs to result in something that is 
> engaging to the learner.  Current adult learning theory is that adults need, 
> yupp, instant gratification, or at least be able to see that they are getting 
> somewhere.
> 
> 5.  No standalone production (I don't want to have to guess at what they 
> didn't do correctly).  We may do revlets though.
> 
> Ideas, suggestions gratefully accepted; otherwise, I'll just wing it like I 
> usually do.  ;-)
> 
> Judy

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Cursor woes

2011-08-11 Thread Chip Thomas

Having some trouble changing the cursor, and hope someone can help shed some
light on the topic.

I have a "mouseEnter" script on the main card that checks if the target is a
"button".  If it's a button, it sets the cursor to hand.  If not, it sets it
to arrow.

I've tried implementing this in two different projects.

One project is a launcher system where the standalone just launches a
separate main stack file.  The cursor script is on the card of this stack
file.  In this project, I don't get any cursor changes except when in the
development environment.

The second project is just a regular standalone with the cursor script on
the main card of the standalone.  I do get a cursor change, but I get a
watch rather than a hand.

Argh!  Any help would be much appreciated.
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[OT] You know when you've been coding too long when . . .

2011-08-11 Thread Marty Knapp

You know you've been coding too long in LiveCode, when you go over to 
your word processor to type a letter and you tap the enter key twice to 
save and close . . . !   (Or am I the only one?)


Marty K

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Re: Back to LC & Inventive Users

2011-08-11 Thread Terry Judd

I've had to build screen capture capabilities into a number of projects over 
the last few years and generally have a lot of fun doing it. Perhaps not the 
easiest task to begin with but broken down into a series of lessons should be 
doable. A simple tool could allow the user to drag out a selection area (using 
import snapshot) and then place the image in its own (resized) window. Once 
there let the user doodle on it (using a freehand draw graphic) and save the 
result to an image file. For extra complexity add in the ability to change 
colours and pen sizes.

Terry...

On 12/08/2011, at 08:01 AM, Judy Perry wrote:

> I have a vague notion of a hands-on assignment for my classes next term 
> involving having them use the 30-day demo and making something 
> semi-interesting (to them) in LC.
> 
> Apparently I did a really sucky job of articulating this to the first person 
> I asked, so, here I try, try again, this time including my necessary caveats 
> and reasons why:
> 
> If you had a month, meaning, 4 long sessions or 8 shorter sessions, to get an 
> absolute Joe Public to make something small but semi-interesting in LC, i.e., 
> something they couldn't do in PowerPoint, what are the top 5 things you'd 
> want them to learn about programming?
> 
> I mean, I'm guessing it's something like IDE, Stack-Card metaphor, commands, 
> functions, conditionals, variables...  but I'm looking for those categories 
> along with some specific examples per my caveats below.
> 
> CAVEATS:
> 
> 1.  This is a General Education class meaning students either have to take 
> this "Computers and Society" course or some biology course involving 
> dissection.  This means they don't particularly want to take this class but 
> it strikes them as less gross than dissecting worms or heaven know what.  
> But, seriously:  nobody really wants to be there.
> 
> 2.  #1 above means that student engagement is a MUST.  The point of the 
> assignment is NOT to make them hate using computers.  #1 also means that some 
> of them barely know how to do attachments with email.  It also means that 
> some of them are downright computer-phobic.
> 
> 3.  No "Hello World."  Sorry, but "Hello World" is a distinct historical and 
> cultural artifact to which this audience simply will not relate.  One of the 
> rules of interactive system design is that using a computer to do something 
> should always offer some seriously compelling reason to do it that way as 
> opposed to the way they know, and writing three lines of script to put "Hello 
> World" into a text field isn't likely to sound more compelling that simply 
> typing it in the field themselves.  The point of the assignment is NOT to 
> turn them into programmers but to help them appreciate some of the things 
> that go into the applications they use everyday and some of the things those 
> programmers have to contend with/know.
> 
> 4.  Each step or lesson along the way needs to result in something that is 
> engaging to the learner.  Current adult learning theory is that adults need, 
> yupp, instant gratification, or at least be able to see that they are getting 
> somewhere.
> 
> 5.  No standalone production (I don't want to have to guess at what they 
> didn't do correctly).  We may do revlets though.
> 
> Ideas, suggestions gratefully accepted; otherwise, I'll just wing it like I 
> usually do.  ;-)
> 
> Judy
> 
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Re: Back to LC & Inventive Users

Hmmm off the top of my head I would say first long session take them through 
the same kinds of things that real developers go through. Ask them at the 
beginning to write down their favorite thing, something that interests them 
most. 

The first session should be about the user interface. Show them how to import a 
graphic from one of those free icon sites (there are some good ones). Show them 
how to set the icon of a button to that graphic. Show them how to place fields 
on a form with labels, and have it be not so cluttered. Show them how to 
arrange things and line them up so that it is not just useful but easily 
grasped and pleasing to look at. 

Next long session should be connecting to a data source. sqLite is good for 
this as it is local file based and they do not have to deal with connectivity 
issues and authentication and the like. Have them create columns in a table, 
then read information from the table into fields, and save information back to 
the table as the user edits. Introduce them to save/cancel buttons instead of 
having them just spew whatever into the table. Show them how to create, edit 
and delete records in a table using scripting. 

Next lesson introduce them to web api. Have them create a place on a card where 
they can display a web page (may be useful at this point to create a basic web 
site so that mischief does not ensue). Have them send data to, and get data 
back from the web pages. Have them populate some fields with that information. 

Final week put it all together to make some kind of application in accordance 
with their declared hobby, which you got at the beginning of the 1st session 
before you told them what you are up to. Grade them on look and feel, 
completeness, innovation, incorporation of the things learned in the first 3 
lessons. 

my 2¢

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> I have a vague notion of a hands-on assignment for my classes next term 
> involving having them use the 30-day demo and making something 
> semi-interesting (to them) in LC.
> 
> Apparently I did a really sucky job of articulating this to the first person 
> I asked, so, here I try, try again, this time including my necessary caveats 
> and reasons why:
> 
> If you had a month, meaning, 4 long sessions or 8 shorter sessions, to get an 
> absolute Joe Public to make something small but semi-interesting in LC, i.e., 
> something they couldn't do in PowerPoint, what are the top 5 things you'd 
> want them to learn about programming?
> 
> I mean, I'm guessing it's something like IDE, Stack-Card metaphor, commands, 
> functions, conditionals, variables...  but I'm looking for those categories 
> along with some specific examples per my caveats below.
> 
> CAVEATS:
> 
> 1.  This is a General Education class meaning students either have to take 
> this "Computers and Society" course or some biology course involving 
> dissection.  This means they don't particularly want to take this class but 
> it strikes them as less gross than dissecting worms or heaven know what.  
> But, seriously:  nobody really wants to be there.
> 
> 2.  #1 above means that student engagement is a MUST.  The point of the 
> assignment is NOT to make them hate using computers.  #1 also means that some 
> of them barely know how to do attachments with email.  It also means that 
> some of them are downright computer-phobic.
> 
> 3.  No "Hello World."  Sorry, but "Hello World" is a distinct historical and 
> cultural artifact to which this audience simply will not relate.  One of the 
> rules of interactive system design is that using a computer to do something 
> should always offer some seriously compelling reason to do it that way as 
> opposed to the way they know, and writing three lines of script to put "Hello 
> World" into a text field isn't likely to sound more compelling that simply 
> typing it in the field themselves.  The point of the assignment is NOT to 
> turn them into programmers but to help them appreciate some of the things 
> that go into the applications they use everyday and some of the things those 
> programmers have to contend with/know.
> 
> 4.  Each step or lesson along the way needs to result in something that is 
> engaging to the learner.  Current adult learning theory is that adults need, 
> yupp, instant gratification, or at least be able to see that they are getting 
> somewhere.
> 
> 5.  No standalone production (I don't want to have to guess at what they 
> didn't do correctly).  We may do revlets though.
> 
> Ideas, suggestions gratefully accepted; otherwise, I'll just wing it like I 
> usually do.  ;-)
> 
> Judy
> 
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Back to LC & Inventive Users

I have a vague notion of a hands-on assignment for my classes next term 
involving having them use the 30-day demo and making something 
semi-interesting (to them) in LC.


Apparently I did a really sucky job of articulating this to the first 
person I asked, so, here I try, try again, this time including my 
necessary caveats and reasons why:


If you had a month, meaning, 4 long sessions or 8 shorter sessions, to get 
an absolute Joe Public to make something small but semi-interesting in LC, 
i.e., something they couldn't do in PowerPoint, what are the top 5 things 
you'd want them to learn about programming?


I mean, I'm guessing it's something like IDE, Stack-Card metaphor, 
commands, functions, conditionals, variables...  but I'm looking for those 
categories along with some specific examples per my caveats below.


CAVEATS:

1.  This is a General Education class meaning students either have to take 
this "Computers and Society" course or some biology course involving 
dissection.  This means they don't particularly want to take this class 
but it strikes them as less gross than dissecting worms or heaven know 
what.  But, seriously:  nobody really wants to be there.


2.  #1 above means that student engagement is a MUST.  The point of the 
assignment is NOT to make them hate using computers.  #1 also means that 
some of them barely know how to do attachments with email.  It also means 
that some of them are downright computer-phobic.


3.  No "Hello World."  Sorry, but "Hello World" is a distinct historical 
and cultural artifact to which this audience simply will not relate.  One 
of the rules of interactive system design is that using a computer to do 
something should always offer some seriously compelling reason to do it 
that way as opposed to the way they know, and writing three lines of 
script to put "Hello World" into a text field isn't likely to sound more 
compelling that simply typing it in the field themselves.  The point of 
the assignment is NOT to turn them into programmers but to help them 
appreciate some of the things that go into the applications they use 
everyday and some of the things those programmers have to contend 
with/know.


4.  Each step or lesson along the way needs to result in something that is 
engaging to the learner.  Current adult learning theory is that adults 
need, yupp, instant gratification, or at least be able to see that they 
are getting somewhere.


5.  No standalone production (I don't want to have to guess at what they 
didn't do correctly).  We may do revlets though.


Ideas, suggestions gratefully accepted; otherwise, I'll just wing it like 
I usually do.  ;-)


Judy

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

I'm thought musical works entered the public domain after some number of
years (I forget how many) following the composer's death.  One of the
problems is that there is no international definition of public domain, all
countries have their own.  It's possible the publishing companies (not the
composers) still hold the copyright to the songs you mentioned though.

Having tried on many occasions to get the bottom of when I have to pay
mechanical license fees for what I record, how I get paid performance
royalties for radio stations playing my recordings, how ASCAP and BMI figure
out what they pay out to their members (which actually amounts to zero
unless you happen to be Bruce Springsteen or the like), it's clear to me
that whole area of music copyright and royalties is a huge, impossible to
understand, mess.

Pete
Molly's Revenge 

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:51 PM, Judy Perry wrote:

> I agree wholly.
>
> However -- it's worth noting AGAIN that Steamboat Willie is STILL under
> copyright.  If IP law continues in this direction, it and anything produced
> afterwards may NEVER enter the public domain.
>
> Also -- there's some controversy that the popular song, "Happy Birthday",
> is under copyright.
>
> O_o
>
> Judy
>
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2011, Pete wrote:
>
> 
>
>  There is no justification for stealing
>> music, it's no different than pirating software.
>>
>
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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread Alejandro Tejada

Hi Ralph,

Ralph DiMola wrote:
> 
> There's at least one other person who told their friends
> to stay away from Napster.
> 

Interesting enough, I learned first about Napster
from Computer Magazines and never liked the idea.

Digital stores like Amazon or iTunes and streaming audio
on demand like GrooveShark are most useful.

Some years ago, I read an article about services that
for a low monthly price, guaranteed that your media
would not be shared openly in the internet.
Do not remember if this article appear in
Wired, Salon or another magazine.

Did anyone have a link to companies that offer
that service?

Thanks in advance!

Al

--
View this message in context: 
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Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship


I agree wholly.

However -- it's worth noting AGAIN that Steamboat Willie is STILL under 
copyright.  If IP law continues in this direction, it and anything 
produced afterwards may NEVER enter the public domain.


Also -- there's some controversy that the popular song, "Happy Birthday", 
is under copyright.


O_o

Judy

On Thu, 11 Aug 2011, Pete wrote:




There is no justification for stealing
music, it's no different than pirating software.


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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread J. Landman Gay


On 8/11/11 12:16 PM, Warren Samples wrote:

The issue of payment and distibution is far more varied
and complex than most of you seem to be aware of or willing to
consider. As consumers your interests only reflect a very limited
perspective.


When faced with a decision like this, I substitute "my software" for 
"music" and see how I'd feel about it.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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I agree with you here Bob. Your previous post seemed to me to focus on
the individual "talent" who shouldn't make money because it was a
"god-given talent." But my post was also a response to those who excuse
taking from someone because they think they are rich (which usually
means someone who makes more then they do!) People do that to me - steal
my software because they think I'm a big, rich corporation (and there I
am sitting in my underwear in my home office working 3 jobs to pay my
bills!). What really fries me is when they contact me for tech support!

Having a "you owe it to me for free" attitude can get you in deep sh*t.
Another friend of mine is head of security at a hardware store. He told
me that I'd be surprised at who shoplifts. He's busted retired cops,
university professors and well-to-do business people, often stealing
small, low-dollar items. In most of these cases, he said, the attitude
was, "I buy a lot of things at this store and I deserved a freebie." Oops.

I like free stuff as much as the next guy. I like free software. I like
free music. But nobody *owes* me free anything. And the irony is, the
person who takes something for "free" because the copyright holder is a
"greedy," "dishonest" corporation may be motivated in much the same way
- greed "I want it, give it to me" and dishonesty.

This is not to say that I think that the misuse of copyright and
trademark laws is OK. I've twice been threatened by lawyers for
absolutely ridiculous "infringement." It was the only time it was nice
to not have much money! I told them to go ahead, but they weren't going
to get much out of me.

Marty

. Once again I've started a controversy.

My original point, which perhaps I did not make terribly clear is that there is
a huge corporate machine that has grown up around copyright protection, that is
the main entity actually making the money, and often is operating contrary to
the original artists interests. A thing can (and often does) start out with
good intentions but ends up being counterproductive to the original goal. I
think in the Christian music industry, this has become a bad thing.

Perhaps I should put it this way. It is my opinion that a Christian artist should decide
whether he wants to devote himself to ministry, (which does not exclude making *some*
money by the way to cover expenses and needs) or else make a living at what he does. BOTH
CHOICES ARE EQUALLY VALID I must emphasize. But it is a bad idea and I stress IN MY
OPINION to start out calling yourself a minister, and then end up trying to get rich at
it. One seems to push out the other. "You cannot serve God and Mammon" I think
was the phrase.

Again, everything is about focus and balance.

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Marty Knapp wrote:

Cool! So now all I need to do is figure out who has god-given talent (as opposed to atheistic talent or
agnostic talent???) or who is "rich" and I can take what I want!!! My brother is an airline pilot -
makes way more money than me. Has 5 cars, including a red '73 Chevy convertible. Maybe I'll just
"borrow" it for a while, when he's on a trip to Paris. He doesn't need to know and he's rich, so
it's my right! You can't drive 5 cars at the same time! Then there's my two multi-millionaire friends.
They're both self-made and very generous, but it never occurred to me that because they're rich, I have a
"right" to take some of their stuff that I've determined they don't need. Awesome!

Marty K

Years ago the large Church I work for had a recording studio and a record label, so that
we could produce "religious" music and not have to deal with the secular
industry and the exorbitant prices they charged for use of their studios. Some artists
because quite successful in their careers, as they were quite good.

Later we bought a radio station and began playing the now wide selection of
Christian music, but at one point one of the agencies that polices rights
infringements approached our radio station and insisted we pay royalties to
these artists (meaning the agency) for the right to use the music. Some of
these artists got their start in our studios, and would never have gotten
anywhere had they not started there.

Our head Pastor was so disgusted, he banned any music from an artist who belonged to one of these
agencies. Offerings on the radio were a bit slim for awhile. Now I can see someone being upset if
another artist went around performing another artist's songs for money, because it was less money
that the original artist charged. But the very thought of having people pay royalties on what we
consider to be a "gift from God" namely the talent and the inspiration for the music
seems to be... well "quenching". The moneychangers in the temple comes to mind.

Bob

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

As a working musician, I heartily agree with Stephen.  There is a miniscule
percentage of musicians who actually manage to make a reasonable living for
their profession, the rest of us (no matter how good or bad we are) make do
with the crumbs and leftovers.  There is no justification for stealing
music, it's no different than pirating software.

And don;t even get me started on the antics of ASCAP, BMI in the realm of
performance royalties


Pete
Molly's Revenge 




On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 9:38 AM, stephen barncard <
stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com> wrote:

> OK. This touched a nerve.
>
> *"I used to record off the air and it was OK"  ,   "everybody does it"  ,
>  "the music today sucks anyway",  "the music business is corrupt"*
>
> All excuses used to justify the stealing of music.  Not very funny to me, a
> 40 year music business worker. This was a profession for thousands that has
> totally gone away.
>
> There is no fair comparison between the innocent taping off of the radio
> and
> trading digital music en masse.
> The former barriers were hassle,cost,  quality and speed, all of which were
> eliminated by digital formats.
>
> LPs were great. They had excellent DRM - very few people had disc cutters
> 'in the day'   (except me) and the media was far more expensive than just
> buying it.  I'm encouraging emerging artists to put all their music out on
> 12" vinyl. Better than a garage filled with a thousand unsold CDs.
>
> What is laughable is the idea that there are many artists are getting rich
> by selling their music. This is an illusion. Most are not. Today the CD is
> more like a promotional tool that people expect for free.
>
>
> On 11 August 2011 04:29, Roger Eller  wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> >
> > > This whole thing seems laughable:
> > >
> > > When I was 13 my Mum and Dad bought me a radio-cassette recorder, and
> > > I merrily recorded all the songs on the radio that I liked, and
> recorded
> > > quite a few songs from gramophone records that belonged to friends of
> > mine
> > > who could afford that sort of thing.
> > >
> > > At no time (1975-6-7-8) did ANYBODY tell that I was breaking the law,
> or,
> > > even, being "naughty".
> > >
> > > I, later, bought half a dozen of the records I had previously taped, so
> > > that I could pose to my "friends" with the record covers.
> > >
> > > Presumably, all across Britain (at least) teenagers were doing this all
> > the
> > > time. How
> > > odd that it never seemed an issue.
> > >
> > > Rod Stewart still made millions, as did Kate Bush, Devo and Kraftwerk .
> .
> > .
> > >
> > > I CAN understand that copying music and subsequently making money out
> of
> > it
> > > is a bit infra dig.
> > >
> > > What a load of codswallop!
> > >
> >
> > That is a similar story to mine, and many other kids of the 70's.  If the
> > music was something I truly loved, then I would buy the record, tape, CD,
> > etc., but if it was just "OK", a recording made from the radio was just
> > fine.  Nowadays, everybody's an "artist", whether they can sing or not.
>  It
> > is assumed, and even expected that people pay for noise.  The market
> should
> > be driven by the quality of the work.  If it's good, DMCA or no DMCA, the
> > artist will STILL become rich and famous.
> >
> > ˜Roger
> > ___
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>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Stephen Barncard
> San Francisco Ca. USA
>
> more about sqb  
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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

Indeed, this can be true; two sound-alike singers were hired directly from 
their YouTube performances as replacement singers for the prog rock band 
Journey and Dennis DeYoung from Styx for their respective tours.


Judy

On Thu, 11 Aug 2011, Roger Eller wrote:


I agree.  In fact, I witnessed the rise of a YouTube artist, and bought his
very first CD because 1) he was that good, and 2) I wanted to be supportive
of the hundreds of songs he posted on YouTube (and I enjoyed for free).
THAT is an artist!  Play it to express what you feel, and if we feel it too,
we will buy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0xqu0Nuwek


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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread Ralph DiMola

There's at least one other person who told their friends to stay away from
Napster.

 

"I cannot speak for others, but I certainly do not. When Napster first came
out and all my friends were going crazy over it, downloading everything they
could get their hands on, I told them all it was stealing, no matter how
they looked at it, because they were taking something without the owner's
permission."

 

I know someone who got caught and had to pay.

 

That being said. I don't feel sorry for the record companies or the rich
rock and rollers.

1)  I bought the Beatle's singles on 45 RPM records.

2)  Then I bought the "White Album" on 33 RPM

3)  Then I got the "White Album" on  8 track

4)  Then I got the "White Album" on  cassette

5)  Then I got the "White Album" on  CD

6)  Some of the songs were on a DVD anthology

7)  Paul's 2000 tour DVD

 

 

As I see it, I paid royalties 7 times on many songs in the Beatle catalog
for my single personal use. I should have had the option to trade in an old
format for  a new format and pay only for the media. Trading and giving away
cassettes to friends of over the air radio broadcasts was never prosecuted.
I don't even know if it was illegal in the first place. The Betamax decision
allowed for recording and trading of over the air TV. If I share a song on
the web then it's TFB for the record companies.. But alas I don't because it
illegal and I have to live with it.

 

PS:

We're still getting ripped-off!!!

 

Ralph DiMola

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship


On 08/11/2011 09:11 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

I cannot speak for others, but I certainly do not. When Napster first came out 
and all my friends were going crazy over it, downloading everything they could 
get their hands on, I told them all it was stealing, no matter how they looked 
at it, because they were taking something without the owner's permission.

Later when Apple released iTunes I found myself going back and buying again 
music I had already paid for in the past, in the form of CD's, cassette tapes, 
lp's etc, some of them several times because I would wear them out or they 
would become damaged.

Now no one seems very concerned that I paid for something several times over.


I am; and I have absolutely NO qualms about downloading mp3 files of 
tracks fom records I bought in 1980.


Similarly, I bought a North American DVD of "Ticket to Heaven" (my favourite
film for obvious reasons) and found I could not play it in Bulgaria; I 
didn't hesitate to rip it and make a region-free copy (which I keep in 
the same box as the original);

having paid for the blasted thing I should at least be able to watch it!


No one is at all concerned in the industry that I may have paid more than my 
fair share. But that is okay, because I had the choice, and I chose to pay to 
have it in a form that FINALLY I could keep indefinitely without degradation of 
quality, even though it must be admitted that it doesn't cost anywhere near as 
much to distribute electronically as it did to do so using physical media.

So everyone can claim unfair treatment, but it really revolves around what two 
entities agree to, and what the intent of use for copied material is. My 
contract with the music industry was fulfilled when I gave them my money and 
they delivered the product with certain restrictions on the fair use and 
reproduction of the product. While it is clearly unfair for me to make copies 
and give it to my friends, I find it equally unfair for them to tell me I 
cannot make backups, or that they could care less that this is the fifth time I 
have paid them for something.

Everyone seems to have a bone to pick.

Bob


On Aug 11, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Warren Samples wrote:


I can't escape the feeling that a part of what some of you are saying is that 
you feel the entities that produced the material have received what you believe 
to be a fair return and they should not be entitled to receive anything more 
and therefore any future use of that product shall be without cost to you. Is 
that really what you think? Is it really reasonable?

Sincerely,

Warren


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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

On 08/11/2011 08:55 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

. Once again I've started a controversy.

Lovely; where would we be without you? Probably considerably more bored
. . . :)

Again, everything is about focus and balance.

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Marty Knapp wrote:

Marty K

Bob

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

I cannot speak for others, but I certainly do not. When Napster first came out 
and all my friends were going crazy over it, downloading everything they could 
get their hands on, I told them all it was stealing, no matter how they looked 
at it, because they were taking something without the owner's permission. 

Later when Apple released iTunes I found myself going back and buying again 
music I had already paid for in the past, in the form of CD's, cassette tapes, 
lp's etc, some of them several times because I would wear them out or they 
would become damaged. 

Now no one seems very concerned that I paid for something several times over. 
No one is at all concerned in the industry that I may have paid more than my 
fair share. But that is okay, because I had the choice, and I chose to pay to 
have it in a form that FINALLY I could keep indefinitely without degradation of 
quality, even though it must be admitted that it doesn't cost anywhere near as 
much to distribute electronically as it did to do so using physical media. 

So everyone can claim unfair treatment, but it really revolves around what two 
entities agree to, and what the intent of use for copied material is. My 
contract with the music industry was fulfilled when I gave them my money and 
they delivered the product with certain restrictions on the fair use and 
reproduction of the product. While it is clearly unfair for me to make copies 
and give it to my friends, I find it equally unfair for them to tell me I 
cannot make backups, or that they could care less that this is the fifth time I 
have paid them for something. 

Everyone seems to have a bone to pick. 

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 10:50 AM, Warren Samples wrote:

> I can't escape the feeling that a part of what some of you are saying is that 
> you feel the entities that produced the material have received what you 
> believe to be a fair return and they should not be entitled to receive 
> anything more and therefore any future use of that product shall be without 
> cost to you. Is that really what you think? Is it really reasonable?
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Warren

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

. Once again I've started a controversy. 

My original point, which perhaps I did not make terribly clear is that there is 
a huge corporate machine that has grown up around copyright protection, that is 
the main entity actually making the money, and often is operating contrary to 
the original artists interests. A thing can (and often does) start out with 
good intentions but ends up being counterproductive to the original goal. I 
think in the Christian music industry, this has become a bad thing. 

Perhaps I should put it this way. It is my opinion that a Christian artist 
should decide whether he wants to devote himself to ministry, (which does not 
exclude making *some* money by the way to cover expenses and needs) or else 
make a living at what he does. BOTH CHOICES ARE EQUALLY VALID I must emphasize. 
But it is a bad idea and I stress IN MY OPINION to start out calling yourself a 
minister, and then end up trying to get rich at it. One seems to push out the 
other. "You cannot serve God and Mammon" I think was the phrase. 

Again, everything is about focus and balance. 

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Marty Knapp wrote:

> Cool! So now all I need to do is figure out who has god-given talent (as 
> opposed to atheistic talent or agnostic talent???) or who is "rich" and I can 
> take what I want!!! My brother is an airline pilot - makes way more money 
> than me. Has 5 cars, including a red '73 Chevy convertible. Maybe I'll just 
> "borrow" it for a while, when he's on a trip to Paris. He doesn't need to 
> know and he's rich, so it's my right! You can't drive 5 cars at the same 
> time! Then there's my two multi-millionaire friends. They're both self-made 
> and very generous, but it never occurred to me that because they're rich, I 
> have a "right" to take some of their stuff that I've determined they don't 
> need. Awesome!
> 
> Marty K
>> Years ago the large Church I work for had a recording studio and a record 
>> label, so that we could produce "religious" music and not have to deal with 
>> the secular industry and the exorbitant prices they charged for use of their 
>> studios. Some artists because quite successful in their careers, as they 
>> were quite good.
>> 
>> Later we bought a radio station and began playing the now wide selection of 
>> Christian music, but at one point one of the agencies that polices rights 
>> infringements approached our radio station and insisted we pay royalties to 
>> these artists (meaning the agency) for the right to use the music. Some of 
>> these artists got their start in our studios, and would never have gotten 
>> anywhere had they not started there.
>> 
>> Our head Pastor was so disgusted, he banned any music from an artist who 
>> belonged to one of these agencies. Offerings on the radio were a bit slim 
>> for awhile. Now I can see someone being upset if another artist went around 
>> performing another artist's songs for money, because it was less money that 
>> the original artist charged. But the very thought of having people pay 
>> royalties on what we consider to be a "gift from God" namely the talent and 
>> the inspiration for the music seems to be... well "quenching". The 
>> moneychangers in the temple comes to mind.
>> 
>> Bob

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread Warren Samples

On Thursday, August 11, 2011 12:09:47 PM Roger Eller wrote:
> I agree.  In fact, I witnessed the rise of a YouTube artist, and bought his
> very first CD because 1) he was that good, and 2) I wanted to be supportive
> of the hundreds of songs he posted on YouTube (and I enjoyed for free).
> THAT is an artist!  Play it to express what you feel, and if we feel it too,
> we will buy it.

The effect of unlicensed redistribution on the music industry is a topic of 
huge debate. The view the RIAA and AF of M take is certainly an exageration. 
But unlicensed distribution is not harmless. Your anecdote reflects a 
legitimate part of the debate, but the music industry is not some simple 
monolith. Many of us work for wages which are determined by the projected use 
and distribution of the final product. While it is undeniable that the exposure 
gained through unlicensed redistribution can be an incredible boon to some 
projects, it also competes with licensed distribution and certainly makes it 
impossible to fairly compensate many of us when the actual distribution is 
unknowable. 

I can't escape the feeling that a part of what some of you are saying is that 
you feel the entities that produced the material have received what you believe 
to be a fair return and they should not be entitled to receive anything more 
and therefore any future use of that product shall be without cost to you. Is 
that really what you think? Is it really reasonable?

Sincerely,

Warren

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread Marty Knapp

Cool! So now all I need to do is figure out who has god-given talent (as
opposed to atheistic talent or agnostic talent???) or who is "rich" and
I can take what I want!!! My brother is an airline pilot - makes way
more money than me. Has 5 cars, including a red '73 Chevy convertible.
Maybe I'll just "borrow" it for a while, when he's on a trip to Paris.
He doesn't need to know and he's rich, so it's my right! You can't drive
5 cars at the same time! Then there's my two multi-millionaire friends.
They're both self-made and very generous, but it never occurred to me
that because they're rich, I have a "right" to take some of their stuff
that I've determined they don't need. Awesome!

Marty K

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 4:29 AM, Roger Eller wrote:

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

This whole thing seems laughable:

When I was 13 my Mum and Dad bought me a radio-cassette recorder, and
I merrily recorded all the songs on the radio that I liked, and recorded
quite a few songs from gramophone records that belonged to friends of mine
who could afford that sort of thing.

At no time (1975-6-7-8) did ANYBODY tell that I was breaking the law, or,
even, being "naughty".

I, later, bought half a dozen of the records I had previously taped, so
that I could pose to my "friends" with the record covers.

Presumably, all across Britain (at least) teenagers were doing this all the
time. How
odd that it never seemed an issue.

Rod Stewart still made millions, as did Kate Bush, Devo and Kraftwerk . . .

I CAN understand that copying music and subsequently making money out of it
is a bit infra dig.

What a load of codswallop!

That is a similar story to mine, and many other kids of the 70's. If the
music was something I truly loved, then I would buy the record, tape, CD,
etc., but if it was just "OK", a recording made from the radio was just
fine. Nowadays, everybody's an "artist", whether they can sing or not. It
is assumed, and even expected that people pay for noise. The market should
be driven by the quality of the work. If it's good, DMCA or no DMCA, the
artist will STILL become rich and famous.

˜Roger
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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

I feel your pain warren as I am also a musician. But I am not making the 
argument that people should not profit from their gifts. God knows none of the 
very talented people who use Livecode would lift a finger if that were the 
case! I am saying that when Christians need a corporate machine to eke out 
every last penny from everyone they can, when they won't play anywhere for less 
that $.xx dollars, when they insist on special cuisine, cooked just so, and 
special accommodations for their entourage, and have a highly paid agent to 
make sure all this falls into place for them, I am suggesting they may have 
missed the point. 

At least for Christian artists, they ought to be willing to go anywhere and 
play for free, aside from their normal profession, if the situation warrants 
it. And they shouldn't punish the few Christian Radio Stations who play their 
music, without whose support they would have gotten no exposure in the first 
place. 

I guess there is a balance to everything. 

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Warren Samples wrote:

> On Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:53:33 AM Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> But the very thought of having people pay royalties on what we consider to 
>> be a "gift from God" namely the talent and the inspiration for the music 
>> seems to be... well "quenching". The moneychangers in the temple comes to 
>> mind. 
>> 
>> Bob
> 
> 
> Bob, how far are you willing to go with argument? Is it just musicians? Who 
> is exempt? Is there anyone or any field where you'd to say, "Oh, God doesn't 
> have anything to do with that, so I'll pay you"? Let me take my cello down to 
> the supermarket and see if they'll give me food if I play for them. Would 
> that actually be any different from asking for cash? I dunno, but it is fair 
> to suggest that you want to benefit from my, or some musician's talents - and 
> hard work invested in developing an nurturing that talent, wthout returning 
> anything except maybe a smile. Is your smile worth something in the 
> supermarket? The issue of payment and distibution is far more varied and 
> complex than most of you seem to be aware of or willing to consider. As 
> consumers your interests only reflect a very limited perspective.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Warren
> 
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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread Warren Samples

On Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:53:33 AM Bob Sneidar wrote:
> But the very thought of having people pay royalties on what we consider to be 
> a "gift from God" namely the talent and the inspiration for the music seems 
> to be... well "quenching". The moneychangers in the temple comes to mind. 
> 
> Bob

Bob, how far are you willing to go with argument? Is it just musicians? Who is 
exempt? Is there anyone or any field where you'd to say, "Oh, God doesn't have 
anything to do with that, so I'll pay you"? Let me take my cello down to the 
supermarket and see if they'll give me food if I play for them. Would that 
actually be any different from asking for cash? I dunno, but it is fair to 
suggest that you want to benefit from my, or some musician's talents - and hard 
work invested in developing an nurturing that talent, wthout returning anything 
except maybe a smile. Is your smile worth something in the supermarket? The 
issue of payment and distibution is far more varied and complex than most of 
you seem to be aware of or willing to consider. As consumers your interests 
only reflect a very limited perspective.

Sincerely,

Warren

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread Roger Eller

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

> As usual it's the middle man that is getting rich. But there ARE ways to
> distribute now that can bypass them. Unfortunately, it's hard to rise above
> the noise of mediocrity in that soup, if the artist really is exceptional.
>
> I have ideas for a website that had some kind of voting system, where the
> more you voted, the more votes you could make, only 3 a day at first, 7
> later, and so on scaling up to as many as you wanted if you voted often.
> Hopefully this would cause the cream to rise to the top, much like YouTube.
>
> Bob
>
>
I agree.  In fact, I witnessed the rise of a YouTube artist, and bought his
very first CD because 1) he was that good, and 2) I wanted to be supportive
of the hundreds of songs he posted on YouTube (and I enjoyed for free).
THAT is an artist!  Play it to express what you feel, and if we feel it too,
we will buy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0xqu0Nuwek

~Roger
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Re: [OT] Blasted Flash

I went to purchase an audio book of The Hobbit off Audible (or iTunes same 
provider) and was informed that I could not purchase it from where I was, 
because it wasn't allowed. Who refuses to sell an audio book in another 
country, especially the US where there is a huge market for it? But that should 
be in another thread. 

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 6:53 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:

> Strange version problems could come up with any technology. It actually makes 
> a nice change that a BBC clip is viewable in the US! For what it's worth, 
> it's a 3 min 52 sec review of the new planet of the apes film, and I stopped 
> it soon because it gives away too many plot details.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

As usual it's the middle man that is getting rich. But there ARE ways to 
distribute now that can bypass them. Unfortunately, it's hard to rise above the 
noise of mediocrity in that soup, if the artist really is exceptional. 

I have ideas for a website that had some kind of voting system, where the more 
you voted, the more votes you could make, only 3 a day at first, 7 later, and 
so on scaling up to as many as you wanted if you voted often. Hopefully this 
would cause the cream to rise to the top, much like YouTube. 

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 9:38 AM, stephen barncard wrote:

> What is laughable is the idea that there are many artists are getting rich
> by selling their music. This is an illusion. Most are not. Today the CD is
> more like a promotional tool that people expect for free.

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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

Years ago the large Church I work for had a recording studio and a record 
label, so that we could produce "religious" music and not have to deal with the 
secular industry and the exorbitant prices they charged for use of their 
studios. Some artists because quite successful in their careers, as they were 
quite good. 

Later we bought a radio station and began playing the now wide selection of 
Christian music, but at one point one of the agencies that polices rights 
infringements approached our radio station and insisted we pay royalties to 
these artists (meaning the agency) for the right to use the music. Some of 
these artists got their start in our studios, and would never have gotten 
anywhere had they not started there. 

Our head Pastor was so disgusted, he banned any music from an artist who 
belonged to one of these agencies. Offerings on the radio were a bit slim for 
awhile. Now I can see someone being upset if another artist went around 
performing another artist's songs for money, because it was less money that the 
original artist charged. But the very thought of having people pay royalties on 
what we consider to be a "gift from God" namely the talent and the inspiration 
for the music seems to be... well "quenching". The moneychangers in the temple 
comes to mind. 

Bob

On Aug 11, 2011, at 4:29 AM, Roger Eller wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> 
>> This whole thing seems laughable:
>> 
>> When I was 13 my Mum and Dad bought me a radio-cassette recorder, and
>> I merrily recorded all the songs on the radio that I liked, and recorded
>> quite a few songs from gramophone records that belonged to friends of mine
>> who could afford that sort of thing.
>> 
>> At no time (1975-6-7-8) did ANYBODY tell that I was breaking the law, or,
>> even, being "naughty".
>> 
>> I, later, bought half a dozen of the records I had previously taped, so
>> that I could pose to my "friends" with the record covers.
>> 
>> Presumably, all across Britain (at least) teenagers were doing this all the
>> time. How
>> odd that it never seemed an issue.
>> 
>> Rod Stewart still made millions, as did Kate Bush, Devo and Kraftwerk . . .
>> 
>> I CAN understand that copying music and subsequently making money out of it
>> is a bit infra dig.
>> 
>> What a load of codswallop!
>> 
> 
> That is a similar story to mine, and many other kids of the 70's.  If the
> music was something I truly loved, then I would buy the record, tape, CD,
> etc., but if it was just "OK", a recording made from the radio was just
> fine.  Nowadays, everybody's an "artist", whether they can sing or not.  It
> is assumed, and even expected that people pay for noise.  The market should
> be driven by the quality of the work.  If it's good, DMCA or no DMCA, the
> artist will STILL become rich and famous.
> 
> ˜Roger
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Re: More time travelling

I'll pitch in. That is a great idea! Get a list of names who will pitch in and 
we can divvy it up. Make sure the people who did the original story know it, 
and it can get some exposure for Livecode. 

Bob


On Aug 10, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Jacque-
> 
> Wednesday, August 10, 2011, 9:09:03 AM, you wrote:
> 
>> On 8/10/11 12:39 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:
>>> Looks like Jacque's not the only time traveller around...
>>> 
>>> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390671,00.asp
>>> 
> 
>> At first I thought this was just an amateur tinkering with a clock. But
>> when I met her 40 years from now, I see she may be on to something.
> 
> I think she's just the sort of inventive user we need more of -
> someone who is clever, likes to tinker with things, shares her results
> with the community, is responsible about reporting flaws, plays well
> with others... I say we should gift her a personal license and get her
> off to a good start with LiveCode. She's probably got a thing or three
> to teach me about better ways of doing things.
> 
> -- 
> -Mark Wieder
> mwie...@ahsoftware.net
> 
> 
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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread stephen barncard

OK. This touched a nerve.

*"I used to record off the air and it was OK"  ,   "everybody does it"  ,
 "the music today sucks anyway",  "the music business is corrupt"*

All excuses used to justify the stealing of music.  Not very funny to me, a
40 year music business worker. This was a profession for thousands that has
totally gone away.

There is no fair comparison between the innocent taping off of the radio and
trading digital music en masse.
The former barriers were hassle,cost,  quality and speed, all of which were
eliminated by digital formats.

LPs were great. They had excellent DRM - very few people had disc cutters
'in the day'   (except me) and the media was far more expensive than just
buying it.  I'm encouraging emerging artists to put all their music out on
12" vinyl. Better than a garage filled with a thousand unsold CDs.

What is laughable is the idea that there are many artists are getting rich
by selling their music. This is an illusion. Most are not. Today the CD is
more like a promotional tool that people expect for free.

On 11 August 2011 04:29, Roger Eller  wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
> > This whole thing seems laughable:
> >
> > When I was 13 my Mum and Dad bought me a radio-cassette recorder, and
> > I merrily recorded all the songs on the radio that I liked, and recorded
> > quite a few songs from gramophone records that belonged to friends of
> mine
> > who could afford that sort of thing.
> >
> > At no time (1975-6-7-8) did ANYBODY tell that I was breaking the law, or,
> > even, being "naughty".
> >
> > I, later, bought half a dozen of the records I had previously taped, so
> > that I could pose to my "friends" with the record covers.
> >
> > Presumably, all across Britain (at least) teenagers were doing this all
> the
> > time. How
> > odd that it never seemed an issue.
> >
> > Rod Stewart still made millions, as did Kate Bush, Devo and Kraftwerk . .
> .
> >
> > I CAN understand that copying music and subsequently making money out of
> it
> > is a bit infra dig.
> >
> > What a load of codswallop!
> >
>
> That is a similar story to mine, and many other kids of the 70's.  If the
> music was something I truly loved, then I would buy the record, tape, CD,
> etc., but if it was just "OK", a recording made from the radio was just
> fine.  Nowadays, everybody's an "artist", whether they can sing or not.  It
> is assumed, and even expected that people pay for noise.  The market should
> be driven by the quality of the work.  If it's good, DMCA or no DMCA, the
> artist will STILL become rich and famous.
>
> ˜Roger
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-- 

Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb  
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Re: groove blox - started already. Need help with arrays and snap to

Arrays are easy. To create one, simply put something into the first element: 
put "~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyarp.wav" into arps["track1"]. If instead, you want 
a multidimensional array containing all your categories: put 
"~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyarp.wav" into aTracks[arps]["track1"]. 

If you need multiple elements for each track:
put "Groovy Arp" into aTracks[arps]["track1"]["name"]
put "~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyarp.wav" into aTracks[arps]["track1"]["path"]
put "Groovy Rythm" into aTracks[drums]["track1"]["name"]
put "~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyrythm.wav" into aTracks[drums]["track1"]["path"]

If the tracks are the top level key:
put "Groovy Rythm" into aTracks["track1"]["name"]
put "Drums" into aTracks["track1"]["type"]
put "~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyrythm.wav" into aTracks["track1"]["path"]
put "Groovy Arp" into aTracks["track2"]["name"]
put "Arps" into aTracks["track2"]["type"]
put "~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyarp.wav" into aTracks["track2"]["path"]

A few caveats: It does not follow that the order of the keys will be the order 
you created them. I do not know why this is. For this reason, you could not put 
the keys of aTracks and expect them to be in the order "track1,track2,track3, 
...". Refer to them by name. Secondly, you cannot test to see if atracks is 
empty, because an array will return true. I do not know why this is. To see if 
an array variable is empty, use: atracks is an array. 

If you have Trevor Devore's excellent and highly recommended sqlYoga, you can 
use his printkeys() function to turn an array into text that can be searched or 
filtered. Using the above example it would look like this:
track1
 name: Groovy Rythm
 type: Drums
 path: ~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyrythm.wav
track2
 name: Groovy Arp
 type: Arps
 path: ~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyarp.wav

Now you can use the filter command to get all the paths: 
   filter thetracks with "*path:*"

which produces: 
 path: ~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyrythm.wav
 path: ~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyarp.wav

Now delete the headers using: 
   replace " path: " with empty in thetracks

Which magically and without fuss produces a list of file paths to your tracks:
~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyrythm.wav
~/Music/GrooveBox/groovyarp.wav

Very handy with large arrays! Don't have to create repeat loops! (Trevor did 
that for you). :-)

Bob

On Aug 10, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Admin wrote:

> 
> 
> Dear All, 
> 
> I already got drag and drop sort of working - can drag
> a wave file to a rectangle and it retains the name of the file - so now
> I can play that file once it is dragged to the track view. 
> 
> I am not
> sure how to make an array - and I assume an array is what I need to keep
> track of multiple blocks (there are 4 categories of blocks - drum, arp,
> bass and fxfill) 
> 
> Also, how would I implement a 'snap to' interface?
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
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Re: Storing Data in Standalone Apps


or you use a serialized array. E.g.:

-- to save your preferences

global gPrefs
on mouseUp
put the loc of this stack into gPrefs["Stackloc"]
put the rect of this stack into gPrefs["StackRect"]
put the backcolor of this stack into gPrefs["StackBCol"]
put arrayencode(gPrefs) into url 
"binfile:c:\users\gg\myprefs\Test\prefs.dat"

end mouseUp

-- and to restore your prefs

global gPrefs
on mouseUp
put arraydecode(url "binfile:c:\users\gg\myprefs\Test\prefs.dat") 
into gPrefs

set the loc of this stack to gPrefs["Stackloc"]
set the rect of this stack to gPrefs["StackRect"]
set the backcolor of this stack to gPrefs["StackBCol"]
end mouseUp

-- You don't have to use globals. But if you do, you can use your 
preferences in any script.



Best Regards
Wolfgang


Am 11.08.2011 16:53, schrieb Bill Vlahos:

Correct. It has to be a separate file - either a separate stack or text file.

Bill Vlahos

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 11, 2011, at 7:29 AM, Gregory Lypny  wrote:


Hello everyone,

My apologies in advance for the lame question but I need a little refresher as 
it has been ages since I’ve deployed standalone apps.  To save data in them, 
and that would include custom props, I need to do it in stack files that are 
not sub-stacks of the main stack.  In other words, any data to be saved, such 
as preferences or ongoing work, must be put in a stack other than the one being 
converted to a standalone.  Is that correct?


Regards,

Gregory
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Re: Storing Data in Standalone Apps

2011-08-11 Thread Bill Vlahos

Correct. It has to be a separate file - either a separate stack or text file.

Bill Vlahos

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 11, 2011, at 7:29 AM, Gregory Lypny  wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> My apologies in advance for the lame question but I need a little refresher 
> as it has been ages since I’ve deployed standalone apps.  To save data in 
> them, and that would include custom props, I need to do it in stack files 
> that are not sub-stacks of the main stack.  In other words, any data to be 
> saved, such as preferences or ongoing work, must be put in a stack other than 
> the one being converted to a standalone.  Is that correct?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gregory
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Storing Data in Standalone Apps

2011-08-11 Thread Gregory Lypny

Hello everyone,

My apologies in advance for the lame question but I need a little refresher as 
it has been ages since I’ve deployed standalone apps.  To save data in them, 
and that would include custom props, I need to do it in stack files that are 
not sub-stacks of the main stack.  In other words, any data to be saved, such 
as preferences or ongoing work, must be put in a stack other than the one being 
converted to a standalone.  Is that correct?


Regards,

Gregory
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AW: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?

Ok, then it's the difference between Win and Mac
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-
> boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von G. Wolfgang Gaich
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2011 16:06
> An: How to use LiveCode
> Betreff: Re: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?
> 
> Hello Tiemo,
> 
> my test was with a 26GB folder with many, many subfolders. it took 24
> minutes and the script was hold until all folders and files were copied.
> 
> Best
> Wolfgang
> 
> Am 11.08.2011 14:34, schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB:
> > Thanks Mark, I will give it a try.
> > @Wolfgang, perhaps the issue, why revCopyFolder didn't waited in my case
> > (Mac) is the duration. The copying in my my case lasts about 10 min
(8GB).
> > Perhaps applescript (which is probably wrapped by the rev command)
returns
> > the result already after a certain amount of time, as Mark says. Who
knows,
> > programming sometimes is a myst.
> > Tiemo
> >
> >> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> >> Von: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-
> >> boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Schonewille
> >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2011 14:15
> >> An: How to use LiveCode
> >> Betreff: Re: AW: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?
> >>
> >> Hi Tiemo,
> >>
> >> Actually, LiveCode waits until the AppleScript returns a value,
indicating
> >> successful compilation or failure, but it returns this value before the
> >> copying has finished. So, it is a combination of AppleScript returning
a
> > value
> >> early and LiveCode not reading additional results from AppleScript.
> >>
> >> It is possible to return a value from AppleScript to LiveCode:
> >>
> >> -- cScript custom prop
> >> set x to 1+1
> >> return x
> >>
> >> --inside LiveCode:
> >> put the cScript of me into myScript
> >> do myScript as AppleScript
> >> put the result
> >>
> >> You could try to return the message instead of running a LiveCode
script
> >> inside AppleScript and see whether AppleScript waits for the copying to
> > finish
> >> until it returns that value. The script would look like this
(pseudocode):
> >>
> >> try
> >>copy
> >> on error
> >>return value
> >> end try
> >> return different value
> >>
> >> Other commands that don't wait are open process and IIRC the popup
> > command.
> >> I'm sure there are a few more but I don't know the entire list by
heart.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Mark Schonewille
> >>
> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
> >> KvK: 50277553
> >>
> >> What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now
> > http://qery.us/v4
> >> A must-have for LiveCode programmers.
> >>
> >> On 11 aug 2011, at 14:00, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Mark,
> >>> thanks for your quick answer, I will give it a try.
> >>>
> >>> Because you have another approach I assume that it is a standard
> > behavior
> >>> with rev commands, that they don't wait?
> >>> Up to know I presumed that every command is waiting up to it's end of
> >>> execution. Are there more commands, which are not waiting?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Tiemo
> >>
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Re: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?


Hello Tiemo,

my test was with a 26GB folder with many, many subfolders. it took 24 
minutes and the script was hold until all folders and files were copied.


Best
Wolfgang

Am 11.08.2011 14:34, schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB:

Thanks Mark, I will give it a try.
@Wolfgang, perhaps the issue, why revCopyFolder didn't waited in my case
(Mac) is the duration. The copying in my my case lasts about 10 min (8GB).
Perhaps applescript (which is probably wrapped by the rev command) returns
the result already after a certain amount of time, as Mark says. Who knows,
programming sometimes is a myst.
Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-
boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Schonewille
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2011 14:15
An: How to use LiveCode
Betreff: Re: AW: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?

Hi Tiemo,

Actually, LiveCode waits until the AppleScript returns a value, indicating
successful compilation or failure, but it returns this value before the
copying has finished. So, it is a combination of AppleScript returning a

value

early and LiveCode not reading additional results from AppleScript.

It is possible to return a value from AppleScript to LiveCode:

-- cScript custom prop
set x to 1+1
return x

--inside LiveCode:
put the cScript of me into myScript
do myScript as AppleScript
put the result

You could try to return the message instead of running a LiveCode script
inside AppleScript and see whether AppleScript waits for the copying to

finish

until it returns that value. The script would look like this (pseudocode):

try
copy
on error
return value
end try
return different value

Other commands that don't wait are open process and IIRC the popup

command.

I'm sure there are a few more but I don't know the entire list by heart.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now

http://qery.us/v4

A must-have for LiveCode programmers.

On 11 aug 2011, at 14:00, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:


Hi Mark,
thanks for your quick answer, I will give it a try.

Because you have another approach I assume that it is a standard

behavior

with rev commands, that they don't wait?
Up to know I presumed that every command is waiting up to it's end of
execution. Are there more commands, which are not waiting?

Thanks
Tiemo


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Re: [OT] Blasted Flash

2011-08-11 Thread Colin Holgate

Strange version problems could come up with any technology. It actually makes a 
nice change that a BBC clip is viewable in the US! For what it's worth, it's a 
3 min 52 sec review of the new planet of the apes film, and I stopped it soon 
because it gives away too many plot details.



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Re: [OT] Blasted Flash

2011-08-11 Thread Warren Samples

On Thursday, August 11, 2011 08:32:51 AM Richmond Mathewson wrote:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-14475250
> 
> Firefox 6, Ubuntu 11.04


No probs here in Opera on openSUSE

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[OT] Blasted Flash

Well, I for one (along with Saint Steve) would be glad to see the back 
of Flash.


Looking at this page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-14475250

Firefox 6, Ubuntu 11.04

I get this message:/

/"Cannot play media.You do not have the correct version of the flash 
player. Download the correct version"


So, on trying to download "the correct version" I am informed that it is
already installed.

So, who's telling "porkies"; especially as other websites, such as 
YouTube, play Flash movies without a hitch?


Tried de-installing and then installing . . . no dice; and no movie 
either . . . mind

you it is the BBC.

Might be something to do with the title of the page:

"Talking apes in Hollywood"; as if that is anything new . . . Sylvester 
Stallone springs

to mind for some odd reason./
/
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AW: AW: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?

Thanks Mark, I will give it a try.
@Wolfgang, perhaps the issue, why revCopyFolder didn't waited in my case
(Mac) is the duration. The copying in my my case lasts about 10 min (8GB).
Perhaps applescript (which is probably wrapped by the rev command) returns
the result already after a certain amount of time, as Mark says. Who knows,
programming sometimes is a myst.
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-
> boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Schonewille
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2011 14:15
> An: How to use LiveCode
> Betreff: Re: AW: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> Actually, LiveCode waits until the AppleScript returns a value, indicating
> successful compilation or failure, but it returns this value before the
> copying has finished. So, it is a combination of AppleScript returning a
value
> early and LiveCode not reading additional results from AppleScript.
> 
> It is possible to return a value from AppleScript to LiveCode:
> 
> -- cScript custom prop
> set x to 1+1
> return x
> 
> --inside LiveCode:
> put the cScript of me into myScript
> do myScript as AppleScript
> put the result
> 
> You could try to return the message instead of running a LiveCode script
> inside AppleScript and see whether AppleScript waits for the copying to
finish
> until it returns that value. The script would look like this (pseudocode):
> 
> try
>   copy
> on error
>   return value
> end try
> return different value
> 
> Other commands that don't wait are open process and IIRC the popup
command.
> I'm sure there are a few more but I don't know the entire list by heart.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Schonewille
> 
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
> KvK: 50277553
> 
> What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now
http://qery.us/v4
> A must-have for LiveCode programmers.
> 
> On 11 aug 2011, at 14:00, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> 
> > Hi Mark,
> > thanks for your quick answer, I will give it a try.
> >
> > Because you have another approach I assume that it is a standard
behavior
> > with rev commands, that they don't wait?
> > Up to know I presumed that every command is waiting up to it's end of
> > execution. Are there more commands, which are not waiting?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Tiemo
> 
> 
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
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Re: AW: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?

2011-08-11 Thread Mark Schonewille

Hi Tiemo,

Actually, LiveCode waits until the AppleScript returns a value, indicating 
successful compilation or failure, but it returns this value before the copying 
has finished. So, it is a combination of AppleScript returning a value early 
and LiveCode not reading additional results from AppleScript. 

It is possible to return a value from AppleScript to LiveCode:

-- cScript custom prop
set x to 1+1
return x

--inside LiveCode:
put the cScript of me into myScript
do myScript as AppleScript
put the result

You could try to return the message instead of running a LiveCode script inside 
AppleScript and see whether AppleScript waits for the copying to finish until 
it returns that value. The script would look like this (pseudocode):

try
copy
on error
return value
end try
return different value  

Other commands that don't wait are open process and IIRC the popup command. I'm 
sure there are a few more but I don't know the entire list by heart.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now http://qery.us/v4 
A must-have for LiveCode programmers.

On 11 aug 2011, at 14:00, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

> Hi Mark,
> thanks for your quick answer, I will give it a try.
> 
> Because you have another approach I assume that it is a standard behavior
> with rev commands, that they don't wait?
> Up to know I presumed that every command is waiting up to it's end of
> execution. Are there more commands, which are not waiting?
> 
> Thanks
> Tiemo

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Re: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?


Hello Tiemo

from my experiences I can say that revcopyfolder is a blocking command.
If I have in a script:

revcopyfolder "myFolder","myCopyFolder"
answer the result

then the dialog pops up when the copy-process has ended

I'm on Windows 7, may be on Mac it is not blocking (Can't test that)

Best regards
Wolfgang


Am 11.08.2011 14:00, schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB:

Hi Mark,
thanks for your quick answer, I will give it a try.

Because you have another approach I assume that it is a standard behavior
with rev commands, that they don't wait?
Up to know I presumed that every command is waiting up to it's end of
execution. Are there more commands, which are not waiting?

Thanks
Tiemo


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-
boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Schonewille
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2011 13:11
An: How to use LiveCode
Betreff: Re: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?

Tiemo,

Here's a sample AppleScript.

try
tell application "Finder"
set myFile to POSIX file "~/desktop/file.txt"
set myNewFile to POSIX file "~/desktop/file2.txt"
copy myFile to myNewFile
end tell
on error myErr number myNr
set myScript to "answer error \"A problem occurred ("&  myErr&

")\""

tell application "LiveCode 4.6.1" to do script myScript
end try

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now

http://qery.us/v4

A must-have for LiveCode programmers.

On 11 aug 2011, at 12:54, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:


Hello,

I want to copy a big folder by script and wait for the result to prompt

an

appropriate message.

But after fireing revCopyFolder my script runs on without waiting for

the

execution of revCopyFolder.

Is this a normal behavior? Anything I can do to wait for the finish?

Thanks

Tiemo



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 * Englisch
 * Deutsch

 * Englisch
 * Deutsch


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AW: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?

Hi Mark,
thanks for your quick answer, I will give it a try.

Because you have another approach I assume that it is a standard behavior
with rev commands, that they don't wait?
Up to know I presumed that every command is waiting up to it's end of
execution. Are there more commands, which are not waiting?

Thanks
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com [mailto:use-livecode-
> boun...@lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Schonewille
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. August 2011 13:11
> An: How to use LiveCode
> Betreff: Re: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?
> 
> Tiemo,
> 
> Here's a sample AppleScript.
> 
> try
>   tell application "Finder"
>   set myFile to POSIX file "~/desktop/file.txt"
>   set myNewFile to POSIX file "~/desktop/file2.txt"
>   copy myFile to myNewFile
>   end tell
> on error myErr number myNr
>   set myScript to "answer error \"A problem occurred (" & myErr &
")\""
>   tell application "LiveCode 4.6.1" to do script myScript
> end try
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Schonewille
> 
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
> KvK: 50277553
> 
> What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now
http://qery.us/v4
> A must-have for LiveCode programmers.
> 
> On 11 aug 2011, at 12:54, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I want to copy a big folder by script and wait for the result to prompt
an
> > appropriate message.
> >
> > But after fireing revCopyFolder my script runs on without waiting for
the
> > execution of revCopyFolder.
> >
> > Is this a normal behavior? Anything I can do to wait for the finish?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Tiemo
> >
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship

2011-08-11 Thread Roger Eller

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> This whole thing seems laughable:
>
> When I was 13 my Mum and Dad bought me a radio-cassette recorder, and
> I merrily recorded all the songs on the radio that I liked, and recorded
> quite a few songs from gramophone records that belonged to friends of mine
> who could afford that sort of thing.
>
> At no time (1975-6-7-8) did ANYBODY tell that I was breaking the law, or,
> even, being "naughty".
>
> I, later, bought half a dozen of the records I had previously taped, so
> that I could pose to my "friends" with the record covers.
>
> Presumably, all across Britain (at least) teenagers were doing this all the
> time. How
> odd that it never seemed an issue.
>
> Rod Stewart still made millions, as did Kate Bush, Devo and Kraftwerk . . .
>
> I CAN understand that copying music and subsequently making money out of it
> is a bit infra dig.
>
> What a load of codswallop!
>

That is a similar story to mine, and many other kids of the 70's.  If the
music was something I truly loved, then I would buy the record, tape, CD,
etc., but if it was just "OK", a recording made from the radio was just
fine.  Nowadays, everybody's an "artist", whether they can sing or not.  It
is assumed, and even expected that people pay for noise.  The market should
be driven by the quality of the work.  If it's good, DMCA or no DMCA, the
artist will STILL become rich and famous.

˜Roger
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Re: how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?

2011-08-11 Thread Mark Schonewille

Tiemo,

Here's a sample AppleScript. 

try
tell application "Finder"
set myFile to POSIX file "~/desktop/file.txt"
set myNewFile to POSIX file "~/desktop/file2.txt"
copy myFile to myNewFile
end tell
on error myErr number myNr
set myScript to "answer error \"A problem occurred (" & myErr & ")\""
tell application "LiveCode 4.6.1" to do script myScript
end try

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now http://qery.us/v4 
A must-have for LiveCode programmers.

On 11 aug 2011, at 12:54, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I want to copy a big folder by script and wait for the result to prompt an
> appropriate message.
> 
> But after fireing revCopyFolder my script runs on without waiting for the
> execution of revCopyFolder.
> 
> Is this a normal behavior? Anything I can do to wait for the finish?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tiemo
> 


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how can I wait for revCopyFolder execution?

Hello,

I want to copy a big folder by script and wait for the result to prompt an
appropriate message.

But after fireing revCopyFolder my script runs on without waiting for the
execution of revCopyFolder.

Is this a normal behavior? Anything I can do to wait for the finish?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 

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Legacy Drivers - Documentation?


Hello,

in the livecode ide preferences/Compatibility there is an option to Use 
Legacy Drivers.


Is there any detailed documentation, when to use the Legacy Drivers and 
when it is not necessary.


I detected some anomalies using odbc with MS SQL Server and Ingres.

Any information would be appreciated.

Best regards
Wolfgang

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Re: German revolutionboard?


Hello Mark,

thanks for the info.

If you need help, webspace, suggestions contact me offline.
I guess it could be important to push the communication in a german 
livecode community.

Best regards
Wolfgang


Am 11.08.2011 10:34, schrieb Mark Schonewille:

Hi Wolfgang,

I will install a new board and will announce it on this list.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now http://qery.us/v4 
A must-have for LiveCode programmers.

On 11 aug 2011, at 09:44, G. Wolfgang Gaich wrote:


Hello german livecoder,

today I tried to go to revolutionboard.de.
I got this:


"Forbidden

You don't have permission to access / on this server."

Revolutionboard doesn't exist anymore?

Best regards
Wolfgang


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Re: German revolutionboard?

2011-08-11 Thread Mark Schonewille

Hi Wolfgang,

I will install a new board and will announce it on this list.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

What does that error mean? Buy LiveCodeErrors for iPhone now http://qery.us/v4 
A must-have for LiveCode programmers.

On 11 aug 2011, at 09:44, G. Wolfgang Gaich wrote:

> Hello german livecoder,
> 
> today I tried to go to revolutionboard.de.
> I got this:
> 
> 
> "Forbidden
> 
> You don't have permission to access / on this server."
> 
> Revolutionboard doesn't exist anymore?
> 
> Best regards
> Wolfgang


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German revolutionboard?


Hello german livecoder,

today I tried to go to revolutionboard.de.
I got this:


 "Forbidden

You don't have permission to access / on this server."

Revolutionboard doesn't exist anymore?

Best regards
Wolfgang


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Re: [OT] Internet Censorship