Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

[Mark Wieder]

On 10/24/2015 02:02 AM, Kay C Lan wrote:

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Monte Goulding 

Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

[Peter Haworth]

Thanks Monte.  I agree with your choice.  FYI, the LC module for Textmate
does it per your first example with the case, and all the statements under
it at the same indent level, not pretty.

Pete
lcSQL Software 
Home of lcStackBrowser  and
SQLiteAdmin 

On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Monte Goulding <
mo...@sweattechnologies.com> wrote:

>
> > On 24 Oct 2015, at 2:25 am, Peter TB Brett 
> wrote:
> >
> > Urgh, this is pretty broken in the 0.6.0.  I'll file an issue and try to
> make sure it's fixed for the next release.
>
> I’ve submitted a fix for this and the indenting issues. There’s still a
> bit of a quirk with switch indenting because there appears to be no way to
> support the layout we are used to. The two choices we have that are bug
> free are:
>
> No case indentation:
>
> switch thing
>case thing1
>code
>break
>case thing2
>code
>break
> end switch
>
> or increase and decrease indent on case
>
> switch thing
> case thing1
>code
>break
> case thing2
>code
>break
> end switch
>
> I have implemented the latter because I think it is more readable and
> helpful when scanning code. The way it was originally implemented it relied
> on break to decrease the indent so it would look like this:
>
> switch thing
>case thing1
>   code
>break
>case thing2
>   code
>break
> end switch
>
> The problem here is the break should be part of the case block and if the
> developer wants continuation and therefore doesn’t use break the
> indentation gets messed up. It’s worthwhile noting that other language
> packages I looked at seem to use the no case indentation style but I’m not
> a fan… Anyone have any thoughts on this?
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Mark Wieder]

On 10/24/2015 09:39 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:


It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define 
english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax can be very 
easily evolved and augmented.


Cool. I'm looking forward to finally resolving ambiguities like

Is the turkey ready to eat yet?
and
I left her behind for you.



--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[JB]

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 9:45 AM, Mark Wieder  wrote:
> 
> 
> I left her behind for you.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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> 

Your choice of words is really important.
I was recently listening to a couple of old
songs.  One song the lyrics said,

“I don’t know why I love you but I do”

Then I thought about it and decided she
probably wants a better answer than that
even though the song is nice.

The other one is from Mockingbird.  It said

“If that mockingbird doesn’t sing he is going
to buy me a diamond ring”

I am thinking the mockingbird will live longer
if it keeps quiet.

John Balgenorth
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Re: Externals for Dummies

[JB]

That would be a good book.  Put in some really
good code from simple to advanced samples
that would cover different methods of using the
data in the C code in a stack.

I would buy it!

John Balgenorth


> On Oct 24, 2015, at 8:10 AM, Gregory Lypny  wrote:
> 
> Howdy,
> 
> I’d like to try my hand at creating externals from C code exported from 
> Mathematica but not sure how to go about it. Anyone have a basic example of 
> external building that they are willing to share?
> 
> Mathematica produces beautiful graphs, and I’d like to create a front-end in 
> LiveCode for my students to make graphs of portfolio frontiers interactively.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Gregory
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Colin Holgate]

I found this definition of open language, which might be on the right lines too:

http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766



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RE: What is "Open Language"?

[John Dixon]

Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit', 'blood' and 
'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps there should be an 
'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to be used in liveCode 
syntax'...


> Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB libraries 
> and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax rather than being 
> limited to function call / command call / property access syntax.
> 
> It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define 
> english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax can be 
> very easily evolved and augmented.
> 
> Mark.

  
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richard Gaskin]

John Dixon wrote:

>> Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB
>> libraries and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax
>> rather than being limited to function call / command call / property
>> access syntax.
>>
>> It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define
>> english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax
>> can be very easily evolved and augmented.
>
> Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit',
> 'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps
> there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to
> be used in liveCode syntax'...

This is part of the reason I raised this thread.  We've seen some rather 
broadly varying ideas about what Open Language means, but I share your 
concerns and I'm not sure that's what Mark intended, even if some are 
excited at the prospect.


I believe the core of the issue is that to date all xTalks have required 
comma-delimited arguments for custom commands.  The good news is that 
this is pretty much how most programming languages work, so it's not 
particularly onerous.  But the bad news is that it means that the 
libraries we share bear no relationship syntactically with the build-in 
commands.


I *believe* (emphasis added to note that I'd he happy to be corrected by 
Mr. Waddingham if this isn't correct) that Open Language was proposed 
primarily (perhaps only) to allow library scripters to define syntax 
that fits in more closely with the flavor of the rest of the language.


For example, today I might write:

   CreateDocument "Window Title", tFilePath

...but with Open Language I could write:

   create document titled "Window Title" using file tFilePath

Mr. Waddingham, is that correct?


That said, I admit I'm rather enamored of this request:


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

[Mark Wieder]

On 10/23/2015 08:13 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:


I find the IDE editor's auto-indentation behaviour pretty obnoxious (it
regularly screws up the formatting in my comments), so I'll be happy to
*not* have it in the Atom package.


 that's actually a problem with the script editor, not with the 
auto-indentation feature. And yeah, when I have to use the built-in 
editor instead of glx2 I have to take care not to edit block comments 
because they'll get all messed up.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richard Gaskin]

Colin Holgate wrote:

I found this definition of open language, which might be on the right lines too:

http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766


A good reminder for us all to keep our ACM memberships current.

But alas mine has lapsed, and before I spend US$15 to download the 2001 
article to see if it matches what LiveCode Ltd. proposed for their 
system in 2013, I'm hoping we might find some definition specific to 
their plans not behind a paywall.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Colin Holgate]

I don’t know what ACM is! Google found that page for me.


> On Oct 24, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Richard Gaskin  
> wrote:
> 
>> I found this definition of open language, which might be on the right lines 
>> too:
>> 
>> http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766 
>> 
> 
> A good reminder for us all to keep our ACM memberships current.

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Externals for Dummies

[Gregory Lypny]

Howdy,

I’d like to try my hand at creating externals from C code exported from 
Mathematica but not sure how to go about it. Anyone have a basic example of 
external building that they are willing to share?

Mathematica produces beautiful graphs, and I’d like to create a front-end in 
LiveCode for my students to make graphs of portfolio frontiers interactively.

Regards,

Gregory
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Re: Externals for Dummies

[François Chaplais]

+1
Le 24 oct. 2015 à 18:07, JB  a écrit :

> That would be a good book.  Put in some really
> good code from simple to advanced samples
> that would cover different methods of using the
> data in the C code in a stack.
> 
> I would buy it!
> 
> John Balgenorth
> 
> 
>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 8:10 AM, Gregory Lypny  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Howdy,
>> 
>> I’d like to try my hand at creating externals from C code exported from 
>> Mathematica but not sure how to go about it. Anyone have a basic example of 
>> external building that they are willing to share?
>> 
>> Mathematica produces beautiful graphs, and I’d like to create a front-end in 
>> LiveCode for my students to make graphs of portfolio frontiers interactively.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Gregory
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> 
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

[Mark Wieder]

On 10/24/2015 09:47 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Interesting, I haven't seen that problem, at least not in regards to
indentation.


Try this:

/*
  * this is indented six spaces for emphasis
  * but the script editor will reformat it for you
  * to a single space
 */   -- and it will also remove the leading space here.


I have seen the script editor fairly frequently highlight
code outside a block comment in green as if it were inside it. The code
still executes OK but a bit scary the first time I saw it happen.


Yep. I think the trick that's mostly worked for me there is to set the 
cursor in the previous handler and hit the tab key to reformat.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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What is "Open Language"?

[Richard Gaskin]

I was looking for a clear definition of LiveCode's proposed "Open 
Language", but I've come up empty.


The original Kickstarter page says only:

   We will introduce a new technology called “Open Language”.
   With Open Language, the more technical members of our community
   can create English-like words and phrases to enable everyone to
   write programs that use any aspect of a computer or device. If
   you’re technical, you can read all about that here.

...where "here" is a link to a blog post that no longer exists.

Within the community there have been broadly varying ideas about what 
"Open Language" might entail, and I was hoping that blog post might 
clear things up but alas it's not even in the Wayback Machine.


Anyone here have a copy of that blog post?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Roger Eller]

if "she" ain't in the fld then
 look in the barn
   else
 if she is among theCows then
 come back home fer supper
 end if
end if
On Oct 24, 2015 12:45 PM, "Mark Wieder"  wrote:

> On 10/24/2015 09:39 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote:
>
> It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define
>> english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax can be
>> very easily evolved and augmented.
>>
>
> Cool. I'm looking forward to finally resolving ambiguities like
>
> Is the turkey ready to eat yet?
> and
> I left her behind for you.
>
> 
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richard Gaskin]

Colin Holgate wrote:

>> On Oct 24, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>> I found this definition of open language, which might be on
>>> the right lines too:
>>>
>>> http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766 


>>
>> A good reminder for us all to keep our ACM memberships current.
>
> I don’t know what ACM is! Google found that page for me.

Kindly indulge this good work for our friends at the ACM:

The Association for Computing Machinery is one of the oldest and most 
respected organizations for computing professionals and enthusiasts.


One of their membership options grants access to the ACM library, one of 
the world's most comprehensive collections of research related to nearly 
every area of computing, such as the article linked to above.


The ACM includes many special interest groups (SIGs), of which SIGGRAPH 
is among their most famous - the annual SIGGRAPH conference is 
considered one of the premier showcases for new and interesting projects 
in computing imaging, 3D, motion graphics, VR, and more.


For UX/UI designers the ACM SIGCHI (Computer-Human Interaction) is a 
great resource providing a bi-monthly publication, Interactions, and has 
many local chapters around the world:



I've also had memberships with the Interaction Design Association and 
the User Experience Professionals Association, but as much as I've 
enjoyed their meetings and publications I still consider ACM SIGCHI the 
creme de le creme of usability orgs.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Mark Waddingham]

Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB libraries and 
widgets will be able to define english-like syntax rather than being limited to 
function call / command call / property access syntax.

It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define 
english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax can be very 
easily evolved and augmented.

Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 Oct 2015, at 17:10, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> 
> I was looking for a clear definition of LiveCode's proposed "Open Language", 
> but I've come up empty.
> 
> The original Kickstarter page says only:
> 
>   We will introduce a new technology called “Open Language”.
>   With Open Language, the more technical members of our community
>   can create English-like words and phrases to enable everyone to
>   write programs that use any aspect of a computer or device. If
>   you’re technical, you can read all about that here.
> 
> ...where "here" is a link to a blog post that no longer exists.
> 
> Within the community there have been broadly varying ideas about what "Open 
> Language" might entail, and I was hoping that blog post might clear things up 
> but alas it's not even in the Wayback Machine.
> 
> Anyone here have a copy of that blog post?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Waddingham wrote:

> Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB
> libraries and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax
> rather than being limited to function call / command call / property
> access syntax.
>
> It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define
> english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax
> can be very easily evolved and augmented.

Two questions:

1. Do we have a projected timeline for that?

2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often 
incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing 
basic things like setting the rect of a button?  :)  (This is why I get 
food thrown at me while speaking at LiveCode conferences)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

[Peter Haworth]

Interesting, I haven't seen that problem, at least not in regards to
indentation.  I have seen the script editor fairly frequently highlight
code outside a block comment in green as if it were inside it. The code
still executes OK but a bit scary the first time I saw it happen.

Pete
lcSQL Software 
Home of lcStackBrowser  and
SQLiteAdmin 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Mark Wieder  wrote:

> On 10/23/2015 08:13 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>
> I find the IDE editor's auto-indentation behaviour pretty obnoxious (it
>> regularly screws up the formatting in my comments), so I'll be happy to
>> *not* have it in the Atom package.
>>
>
>  that's actually a problem with the script editor, not with the
> auto-indentation feature. And yeah, when I have to use the built-in editor
> instead of glx2 I have to take care not to edit block comments because
> they'll get all messed up.
>
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

[Peter Haworth]

OK, I see what you mean now and yes I've seen that and yes, it's annoying.

Pete
lcSQL Software 
Home of lcStackBrowser  and
SQLiteAdmin 

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Mark Wieder 
wrote:

> On 10/24/2015 09:47 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:
>
>> Interesting, I haven't seen that problem, at least not in regards to
>> indentation.
>>
>
> Try this:
>
> /*
>   * this is indented six spaces for emphasis
>   * but the script editor will reformat it for you
>   * to a single space
>  */   -- and it will also remove the leading space here.
>
> I have seen the script editor fairly frequently highlight
>> code outside a block comment in green as if it were inside it. The code
>> still executes OK but a bit scary the first time I saw it happen.
>>
>
> Yep. I think the trick that's mostly worked for me there is to set the
> cursor in the previous handler and hit the tab key to reformat.
>
>
> --
>  Mark Wieder
>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
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Re: Keeping up to date with

[Simon]

I thought this was a good solution;
https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/

Simon



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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richmond]

On 24/10/15 19:10, Richard Gaskin wrote:
I was looking for a clear definition of LiveCode's proposed "Open 
Language", but I've come up empty.


The original Kickstarter page says only:

   We will introduce a new technology called “Open Language”.
   With Open Language, the more technical members of our community
   can create English-like words and phrases to enable everyone to
   write programs that use any aspect of a computer or device. If
   you’re technical, you can read all about that here.


Talk about throw-away lines . . .

Surely (?) LiveCode already does this: use English-like words and 
phrases

to enable everyone to write programs 

The sticking point is this bit:

"to enable everyone to write programs that use any aspect of a computer 
or device."


Well: I still cannot talk to my USB robot or my USB footpedal set with 
LiveCode . . .




...where "here" is a link to a blog post that no longer exists.


I've always had a sneaking suspicion that "someone" went 'off at the 
mouth' a bit during
the Kickstarter and promised things that, either, they had no intention 
of keeping, or promised
things that, really, they didn't realise would involve them in so many 
unseen complexities that

they would be, effectively, unrealisable.

The definition: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=609766

is JUST a proposal, and as such, it is nothing more, and does not 
involve a feasibility study

nor a prototype,

AND

as people are NOT computers, not vice-versa, I cannot see how an "Open 
Language"
= with Human-like logic and endlessly extensible in a human-like fashion 
is ever going to be possible.


I would say, that LiveCode, at its best [because, recently, in its 
efforts to be 'clever' is seems to strayed away from that]
is pretty near to having some sort of 'naturalistic' language; but that 
is NOT an Open language.




Within the community there have been broadly varying ideas about what 
"Open Language" might entail, and I was hoping that blog post might 
clear things up but alas it's not even in the Wayback Machine.


Anyone here have a copy of that blog post?



How incredibly convenient that quite a few 'promises' that we remember 
from the Kickstarter have
evaporated into the miasma of cyber-space so we cannot hold people to 
them . . . .


I don't quite know why the user base of LiveCode still refuses to accept 
that RunRev is NOT being nearly as 'open'
with them as, perhaps, one would expect from an Open Source thing. 
Despite RunRev's repeated protestations

these sort of 'things' keep coming up.

I do believe that until RunRev can "come clean" with their user-base 
there will be a growing feeling of distrust which will only harm them.


Expanded too quickly, promised too many things too quickly, kept 
changing prices and conditions too quickly, avoiding some embarrassing

truths . . . um.

Let's imagine a situation:

Dear kids, those of you who would normally attend classes with me on 
Tuesday morning will be unable to
as, unfortunately, I have an unavoidable doctor's appointment, therefore 
I have had to move your class to Wednesday

morning: I am sorry to have put you to this inconvenience.

That is what I have just sent the 7 children who are due to have a class 
with me on Tuesday: it's called "being 100% open".


It has never hurt my business.

Richmond.


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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[J. Landman Gay]

I was just going to post that link when I read your reply. It's my favorite too 
and I hope it never goes away. 

On October 24, 2015 1:17:40 PM CDT, Richard Gaskin  
wrote:

>That said, I admit I'm rather enamored of this request:
>

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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catching pasted text and forcing unicode

[Dr. Hawkins]

There is not a circumstance in which I will need to use multi-byted.
ASCII would be fine, but it is missing the section (§) symbol, and the
occasional ñ in a name.

I do, however, have to deal with the mac/windows/unix character set split.
Particularly, I need to watch for things being pasted in, both by users and
in the development environment.

I suppose the set of problematic characters is fairly small--section &
paragraphs symbols, and curly quotes being the notable ones.

Is there a civilized way to catch incoming text pasted into a field and
cover it properly?  Ideally, in a way that would catch that someone had
copied from one of those idiotic web pages that were made with ms word and
have windows characters, even though the person was using a mac?

And once generated, my pdfs need to be able to print/view on a different
platform.

Should I be playing with htmlText to force this?


When I'm generating a new form, I generally paste from the host pdf to
label fields.  I then have a script that tests the text for formatting, and
saves that information.  Could I do some testing here?


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richmond]

On 24/10/15 22:10, Peter TB Brett wrote:

On 2015-10-24 18:53, Richard Gaskin wrote:


2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often
incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing
basic things like setting the rect of a button?


To quote Gilbert & Sullivan: "Well, yes, that's the idea."

Not too different from the status quo, though, is it? I can already 
modify the bounding box of a button by setting its "left", "right", 
"top", "bottom", "topLeft", "topRight", "bottomLeft", "bottomRight", 
"rect", or "rectangle" pseudo-properties.


Those make a lot of sense.

But imagine the sort of other things people do:

"The thingummy-bob over there"

R.


Some people believe that programming languages should be designed in 
such a way that, for any given task, "There should be one - and 
preferably only one - obvious way to do it."  This is not the design 
philosophy of LiveCode.


That is clear: one should not, always, have to drive down the middle of 
the road. However, while it might be useful to drive in the left lane,
the right lane and, occasionally, on the hard shoulder, when one starts 
to drive on the verge, or even in the adjacent field, things tend
to go wrong. So "Open" is as "Open" does; rather like the difference 
between 'freedom' and 'unfettered freedom'.


So, while the design philosophy of LiveCode may be that there may be 
several ways to achieve something, there do still have to be constraints.


Richmond.


  Peter




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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richmond]

On 24/10/15 23:07, Geoff Canyon wrote:

The Wayback Machine never forgets:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130301041400/http://blog.runrev.com/blog/bid/265511/Open-Language
(takes
some time to load)




Thank you very much for fossicking that out!

"The key piece of this project is a tailored parsing system that we’ve 
come up with."


Has it already been "come up with" or is that some sort of anticipation?

After all, this was written some two and a half years ago, and we have 
seen nothing subsequently.


"One of LiveCode’s greatest strengths is its English-like programming 
language.
The use of a natural language-like syntax gives it great expressivity 
and, as a result,

in most cases code is compact yet eminently readable."

This is very well put, yet, with the expansion of LiveCode beyond the 
boundaries of what we could call

the "Hypercard/Metacard" set, a lot of that English-likeness has got lost.

"Now with the problem of extensible syntax sorted"

If so, where is it, or at the very least, some signs of its approach?

Now, R. Gaskin and Co. are perfectly entitled to state that I am merrily 
stating, left-right-and-centre, that RunRev
"don't care"; I don't feel that that is quite what I am doing: what I am 
trying to do is state that RunRev are not
very good at keeping their user-base informed about certain things that 
the company has stated will be available
post-Kickstarter, and, so far, don't seem to be.  That is not a case of 
not "caring", but it might be a case of

not communicating adequately.

Richmond.

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richmond]

On 24/10/15 22:02, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Richmond write:

> The sticking point is this bit:
>
> "to enable everyone to write programs that use any aspect of a
> computer or device."
>
> Well: I still cannot talk to my USB robot or my USB footpedal set
> with LiveCode . . .

I agree it would have been clearer to have specified "or computing 
device".  But since "device" is commonly used to refer collectively to 
phones, phablets, and tablets, I've seen very few people so certain 
that it meant "all possible devices ever manufactured for any purpose 
however specialized" that they felt compelled to spam "RunRev doesn't 
care" all over the forums.


Given this expectation, and that the number of folks using Lua, 
Python, or JavaScript is far larger than our humble LiveCode audience, 
one might ask whether the core dev teams for those and other scripting 
language has provided you built-in commands for the specific device 
you have?


Aah: they probably haven't.

I don't think that "RunRev doesn't care", but I think they have promised 
rather more than they are capable of delivering
in a semi-reasonable time-frame, and as a resilt they have got a lots of 
people's expectations up in a way that may be
quite unrealistic, and it might not be a bad idea if they did a spot of 
retrenchment instead of keeping quiet.


Certainly, if RunRev were to state something like this:

"We would very much like to work towards Open Language, however we do 
realise something now, that we might have been
unaware of in our enthusiasm over the Kickstarter and launching an Open 
Source version of LiveCode, so it would be unreasonable

for users to expect anything near a fully open langauge sometime soon."

That might let people who are wondering, that they care.

R.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richmond]

On 24/10/15 22:21, Peter TB Brett wrote:

On 2015-10-24 19:40, John Dixon wrote:

Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit',
'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps
there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to
be used in liveCode syntax'...


Yes, many of the core dev team are looking forward to replacing:

* color -> colour
* hilite -> highlight
* gray -> grey
* program -> programme

Spelling these keywords properly will be an important step forward in 
ensuring accessibility and comprehensibility for the LiveCode 
scripting language. It will greatly reduce the number of bugs and 
regressions in our releases, thanks to reducing the core team 
developers' typo rate.


 Peter :-)



Ha, Ha: I take that is meant to be a joke: if non-American programmers 
cannot put up with the odd spot of American spelling
one wonders how they'll manage anything else: that should be the very 
least of anyone's worries.


R.

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 10/24/2015 3:47 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:

On 10/24/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:


* hilite -> highlight


Actually I filed a bug report on that six years ago.
http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8211

It got confirmed and ignored.
I just submitted a pull request.
Figured I might as well fix this myself.



You must mean the derivatives; "highlight" has always been available. 
But "highlightedIcon" is not. Or was not.


I won't use it of course, I always go for the shortest possible amount 
of typing. Even "blendlevel" annoys me because it's too many characters. 
Mark Waddingham once mentioned he didn't like the abbreviations (cd, 
fld, grp, bg) and wanted to take them out, and I threatened to put out a 
contract on him.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[JB]

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Monte Goulding  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 25 Oct 2015, at 8:43 am, JB  wrote:
>> 
>> As for Monty I am not sure if you are talking about his
>> externals for mobile apps.  I do not have a mobile yet
>> but when I get one I will definitely buy his externals.
> 
> Yay, note that a number of my iOS externals are also available for OS X and I 
> also have a couple of fully cross platform externals available. I’m looking 
> forward to 64 bit OS X so I can release my apple maps external (mergMK) on OS 
> X. The work is already done.
>> 
>> I do not expect him to release that code but are there
>> other examples he has released?
> 
> There’s a few FOSS licensed externals if you would like to check my github 
> account:
> https://github.com/montegoulding?tab=repositories 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
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Thanks Monty!

I will go to your github and check it out.  Do you have a link
for the OS X externals you are selling?

JB
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Re: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive

[Richard Gaskin]

Matthias Rebbe wrote:

long time ago i created a program which creates a list of files of  backup cds 
or dvds and stores that listings in a database with some additional information 
like cd name/number.
So if the customer needs to know on which cd/dvd a needed fileis,  the database 
can be searched. This worked fine a long time. But with time the customer used 
harddrives for the backups.
So they imported now the file listing of harddrives. Even that worked fin. But 
now with bigger drives and more stuff stored on the drives my program is not 
able to import the file listing anymore if the number of files/folders exceed a 
special number. It just freezes.

If i try to create a directory listing of such a drive in Livecode i get an 
recursion limit error telling me that the recursion limit of 40 was 
reached. I tried to increase that limit, but i still get that error, but with 
the newly set value.

I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list and was 
originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002.
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html

Is there a way to scan a complete drive with LC regardless how many folders and 
subfolder that drive contains without getting that recursion limit error?


We had a couple discussions about this here a while back.  The problem 
isn't recursion per se, since of course it's highly unlikely that any 
hard drive will have folders nested more than 400,000 deep.


The recursion error is thrown when there's inadequate error checking on 
the "set the directory to..." line, so that the directory never changes 
and thus the routine sits in a loop working on the same directory over 
and over.


If you check "the result" immediately after the "set the directory..." 
line and skip when the result is not empty I think you'll find the rest 
of you code will work well on just about any drive you'll encounter.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Geoff Canyon]

The Wayback Machine never forgets:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130301041400/http://blog.runrev.com/blog/bid/265511/Open-Language
(takes
some time to load)

This is the main thing I have been looking forward to for the past several
years. The goal was to allow the addition of truly new syntax and
functionality to the language. I really wanted this, and widgets is what it
has turned into. Not that widgets aren't a good thing, but I'd really like
to be able to use:

repeat for each line L in someText with index i

apply myFunction to X until the value converges

apply (+1) to every item of myList where it mod 2 = 1

...and many, many more.


On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Peter TB Brett 
wrote:

> On 2015-10-24 19:40, John Dixon wrote:
>
>> Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit',
>> 'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps
>> there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to
>> be used in liveCode syntax'...
>>
>
> Yes, many of the core dev team are looking forward to replacing:
>
> * color -> colour
> * hilite -> highlight
> * gray -> grey
> * program -> programme
>
> Spelling these keywords properly will be an important step forward in
> ensuring accessibility and comprehensibility for the LiveCode scripting
> language. It will greatly reduce the number of bugs and regressions in our
> releases, thanks to reducing the core team developers' typo rate.
>
>  Peter :-)
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett 
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode on reddit! 
>
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:07 am, Geoff Canyon  wrote:
> 
> repeat for each line L in someText with index i

I can’t help wondering if open language will allow for new (or variations on 
existing) control structures. My impression is the intention is to allow for 
new command syntax only but I could be wrong. 


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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Mark Wieder]

On 10/24/2015 01:34 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:


I expect there will be natural boundaries. Most syntax will still be defined by 
the core team. Some third party vendors will implement english like syntax for 
their stuff. Most folks just wanting to get the job done will continue with 
functions and commands. Some interesting syntax might be developed for fun but 
these are pluggable modules which aren’t delivered with the core product unless 
they are wanted there.


I'm looking forward to

etsay the opertypay otay omesay andomray aluevay

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[hh]

What is open language?

A purely descriptive contribution:
250 most frequent words of the discussion from R.G. over R.M to M.G.

[TagCloud] http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5=25687
Unfinished [last post of use-list included: Sat Oct 24 22:52:10 CEST 2015]

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:14 am, JB  wrote:
> 
>  Do you have a link
> for the OS X externals you are selling?

Everything is at mergExt.com 

The externals available for OS X are:
 - mergJSON
 - mergAV
 - mergAWS
 - mergBLE
 - mergGoogle
 - mergNotify
 - mergBonjour (OX Build in next release)

Cheers

Monte
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Re: Keeping up to date with

[David Bovill]

Good find. Unfortunately it is out of date. I think the best solution is to
get the devs that make releases to include this information in the Release
notes - a script culd then pull all this information out into a table?

On Saturday, 24 October 2015, Simon  wrote:

> I thought this was a good solution;
> https://livecode.com/resources/support/ask-a-question/
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Keeping-up-to-date-with-tp4697882p4697914.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: Externals for Dummies

[François Chaplais]

wrong. LC does not have a multicore optimized solver for linear equations, the 
basis of numerical analysis. I want it.
François
Le 24 oct. 2015 à 20:37, hh  a écrit :

> Probably you don't need an external because LC has everything available.
> I made a simple stack in 2014 that is kind of an interface to 
> Mathematica/Wolfram
> (so you can use one copy of Mathematica locally as 'serving').
> Runs on Mac/Win/Linux/RaspberryPi.
> 
> It is even fast enough on a RaspberryPi (Raspbian includes a free copy of 
> Wolfram/Mathematica 10). Some people have a "Raspi cloud" serving ...
> 
> The stack includes 10 Examples (from plots to producing a table of function 
> values).
> See http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=76=22183
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 10/24/2015 1:51 PM, Richmond wrote:

as people are NOT computers, not vice-versa, I cannot see how an "Open
Language"
= with Human-like logic and endlessly extensible in a human-like fashion
is ever going to be possible.


Funny you bring that up, I just read this article minutes ago:



To quote: "Who needs to code when you can use visual building blocks or 
even plain English to describe intent? Advances in natural-language 
processing and conceptual modeling will remove the need for traditional 
coding from app development. Software development tools will soon 
understand what you mean versus what you say."


So not everyone agrees with you.

The remarks about natural English in the article make me think LC ought 
to be more prominent.



I've always had a sneaking suspicion that "someone" went 'off at the mouth' a 
bit during
the Kickstarter and promised things that, either, they had no intention of 
keeping, or promised
things that, really, they didn't realise would involve them in so many unseen 
complexities that
they would be, effectively, unrealisable.


I know Mark Waddingham pretty well, and I've never heard him propose 
anything that he didn't already have a good idea how to accomplish.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[JB]

If you do get Open Language what will it do to the
speed?  They said LC8 would be good because it
will make it easier for developers to write code in
LC which needed to be and external before.

Then after releasing it they said it is slower to use
than a external written in C.

I would prefer better lessons and examples to write
externals if they are faster and the same goes for
Open Language.

JB



> On Oct 24, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Monte Goulding  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:25 am, Richmond  wrote:
>> 
>> So, while the design philosophy of LiveCode may be that there may be several 
>> ways to achieve something, there do still have to be constraints.
> 
> I expect there will be natural boundaries. Most syntax will still be defined 
> by the core team. Some third party vendors will implement english like syntax 
> for their stuff. Most folks just wanting to get the job done will continue 
> with functions and commands. Some interesting syntax might be developed for 
> fun but these are pluggable modules which aren’t delivered with the core 
> product unless they are wanted there.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Peter TB Brett]

On 2015-10-24 22:43, Richmond wrote:

On 24/10/15 23:07, Geoff Canyon wrote:

The Wayback Machine never forgets:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130301041400/http://blog.runrev.com/blog/bid/265511/Open-Language
(takes
some time to load)




Thank you very much for fossicking that out!

"The key piece of this project is a tailored parsing system that we’ve
come up with."

Has it already been "come up with" or is that some sort of 
anticipation?


The initial version of the system is already in use in LiveCode Builder.

  Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit! 

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[JB]

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Richard Gaskin  
> wrote:
> 
> JB wrote:
>> If you do get Open Language what will it do to the
>> speed?  They said LC8 would be good because it
>> will make it easier for developers to write code in
>> LC which needed to be and external before.
>> 
>> Then after releasing it they said it is slower to use
>> than a external written in C.
>> 
>> I would prefer better lessons and examples to write
>> externals if they are faster and the same goes for
>> Open Language.
> 
> That's a different but important part of the Builder language, the ability to 
> call OS APIs.
> 
> I've worked with OS APIs in Pascal, C, and two xTalks, Tookbook's OpenTalk 
> scripting language which provides that built-in, and CompileIt for HyperTalk.
> 
> The one thing I've learned from that is that the language you're using isn't 
> all that important, because no matter what you're writing in the OS you're 
> talking to expects C:  it uses C data types and structures, provides tons of 
> great sample source but all in C, and requires that you think like a C 
> programmer, understanding and managing data in ways a good xTalk normally 
> insulates from even having to think about - the difference between a pointer 
> and a handle isn't interesting to most xTalkers, but can be essential in C.
> 
> By the time you become fluent enough in C to understand OS APIs well enough 
> to use them, you've already learned enough to write in it as well.
> 
> I'm sure that part of Builder will be very interesting for some tasks, but if 
> I could add to that wish list it would be to see the externals SDK made as 
> easy as possible to work with, including examples for each of the supported 
> platforms.
> 
> Monte's done an amazing job showing off what the externals SDK can do for 
> extending LC.  It would be great to see more people jump on board with it.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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I fully agree with you.

As for Monty I am not sure if you are talking about his
externals for mobile apps.  I do not have a mobile yet
but when I get one I will definitely buy his externals.

I do not expect him to release that code but are there
other examples he has released?

JB
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:05 am, Geoff Canyon  wrote:
> 
> The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would be
> that:
> 
> 1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something like
> this.
> 2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my "index"
> version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with that.
> (or both).
> 3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving critical
> mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine
> directly.

OK, well we can let Mark Waddingham comment on whether I’m right in that 
control structures are unlikely targets for open language or not. It seems 
quite unlikely to me as it’s significantly more complicated than commands. I’m 
not saying it’s not possible the ROI would be terrible. As in almost 0 return 
for a reasonably heavy investment… 
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Peter TB Brett]

On 2015-10-25 00:19, Monte Goulding wrote:

On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:05 am, Geoff Canyon  wrote:

The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would 
be

that:

1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something 
like

this.
2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my 
"index"
version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with 
that.

(or both).
3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving 
critical

mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine
directly.


OK, well we can let Mark Waddingham comment on whether I’m right in
that control structures are unlikely targets for open language or not.
It seems quite unlikely to me as it’s significantly more complicated
than commands. I’m not saying it’s not possible the ROI would be
terrible. As in almost 0 return for a reasonably heavy investment…


I can't speak for Mark, but from my point of view, Open Language without 
custom control structures would be woefully incomplete.


For example, "with" blocks would be super awesome:

with the defaultFolder as "/home/peter/foo/bar"
-- Do things that might cause an error
end with

Syntax is purely demonstrative, but the idea is that no matter what 
happens inside the block (return, error, etc.) the defaultFolder would 
get restored to its original value.  Far easier to get right than "try 
... catch" for cleanup purposes.


"Match" blocks would be really nice to have too.  Also, I can think of 
lots of uses for custom control structures in making test suites easier 
to write.  And about 10 other really neat applications.


So yes, custom control structures are a really important part of Open 
Language from my perspective.  You could make it far easier to write 
correct code.


   Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit! 

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond wrote:

> as people are NOT computers, not vice-versa, I cannot see how an
> "Open Language" = with Human-like logic and endlessly extensible
> in a human-like fashion is ever going to be possible.

One could argue it never has, at least with some commands.

My favorite example is the "export snapshot" command - even with the 
Dictionary guidance we all need to turn to for that no matter how many 
times we've used it, it's so complex with such a combinatorial explosion 
of options that I defy anyone to make a readable BNF for it. :)


Instead of using commas we delimit options with assistive noise words, 
like "at" or "with", but with a command as complex as "export" snapshot" 
do we specify the image compressor using "with" or "as", or is "as" for 
the file name, since "at" is used for size?


And all the while, just like comma-delimited args, we must memorize the 
order of them.  You can't just use "at" followed by the thumbnail size 
just anywhere; all options must be used in a specific order.


For some complex things I find myself admiing R, XML, and other 
languages where arguments are name-value pairs.


For example, if "export snapshot" were an R command it might look 
something like:


  ExportSnapshot file=Myfile.png format=png size=128,256

Even better, in R most arguments are purely optional; anything omitted 
uses a reasonable default.  LiveCode kinda does this too, but we really 
appreciate it with R's plot command:


  plot 

...gives you a gorgeous scatter plot with useful x- and y-axis labels 
and well-placed tick marks, without having to specify anything; you can 
specify as much or as little as you like with most commands and expect a 
useful result.


I'm not proposing LiveCode switch to name-value pair arguments, but in 
some cases it would be a nice option, "export snapshot" being among them.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Externals for Dummies

[hh]

Probably you don't need an external because LC has everything available.
I made a simple stack in 2014 that is kind of an interface to 
Mathematica/Wolfram
(so you can use one copy of Mathematica locally as 'serving').
Runs on Mac/Win/Linux/RaspberryPi.

It is even fast enough on a RaspberryPi (Raspbian includes a free copy of 
Wolfram/Mathematica 10). Some people have a "Raspi cloud" serving ...

The stack includes 10 Examples (from plots to producing a table of function 
values).
See http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=76=22183
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond write:

> The sticking point is this bit:
>
> "to enable everyone to write programs that use any aspect of a
> computer or device."
>
> Well: I still cannot talk to my USB robot or my USB footpedal set
> with LiveCode . . .

I agree it would have been clearer to have specified "or computing 
device".  But since "device" is commonly used to refer collectively to 
phones, phablets, and tablets, I've seen very few people so certain that 
it meant "all possible devices ever manufactured for any purpose however 
specialized" that they felt compelled to spam "RunRev doesn't care" all 
over the forums.


Given this expectation, and that the number of folks using Lua, Python, 
or JavaScript is far larger than our humble LiveCode audience, one might 
ask whether the core dev teams for those and other scripting language 
has provided you built-in commands for the specific device you have?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richmond]

On 24/10/15 19:53, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Mark Waddingham wrote:

> Simply put, Open Language is a technology that will mean that LCB
> libraries and widgets will be able to define english-like syntax
> rather than being limited to function call / command call / property
> access syntax.
>
> It is a key piece that will not only mean 'third parties' can define
> english-like syntax but also mean the all the current engine syntax
> can be very easily evolved and augmented.

Two questions:

1. Do we have a projected timeline for that?

2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often 
incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing 
basic things like setting the rect of a button?  :)  (This is why I 
get food thrown at me while speaking at LiveCode conferences)




Well, what to one person is 'natural language' may not be to another:
and a "10,000 different, often incompatible and sometimes confusing,
custom syntax options" does seem to sum that problem up fairly effectively.

It is an unreachable ideal for the plain and simple reason that 
computers do not work in the

same way as human brains.

R.

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Peter TB Brett]

On 2015-10-24 18:53, Richard Gaskin wrote:


2. Isn't the goal so that we can have 10,000 different, often
incompatible and sometimes confusing, custom syntax options for doing
basic things like setting the rect of a button?


To quote Gilbert & Sullivan: "Well, yes, that's the idea."

Not too different from the status quo, though, is it? I can already 
modify the bounding box of a button by setting its "left", "right", 
"top", "bottom", "topLeft", "topRight", "bottomLeft", "bottomRight", 
"rect", or "rectangle" pseudo-properties.


Some people believe that programming languages should be designed in 
such a way that, for any given task, "There should be one - and 
preferably only one - obvious way to do it."  This is not the design 
philosophy of LiveCode.


  Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit! 

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RE: What is "Open Language"?

[Peter TB Brett]

On 2015-10-24 19:40, John Dixon wrote:

Oh dear... it smacks of pidgeon english... with words like 'innit',
'blood' and 'bling' being included... to maintain a standard, perhaps
there should be an 'Oxford English publication of acceptable words to
be used in liveCode syntax'...


Yes, many of the core dev team are looking forward to replacing:

* color -> colour
* hilite -> highlight
* gray -> grey
* program -> programme

Spelling these keywords properly will be an important step forward in 
ensuring accessibility and comprehensibility for the LiveCode scripting 
language. It will greatly reduce the number of bugs and regressions in 
our releases, thanks to reducing the core team developers' typo rate.


 Peter :-)

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit! 

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richmond]

On 24/10/15 23:04, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 10/24/2015 1:51 PM, Richmond wrote:

as people are NOT computers, not vice-versa, I cannot see how an "Open
Language"
= with Human-like logic and endlessly extensible in a human-like fashion
is ever going to be possible.


Funny you bring that up, I just read this article minutes ago:



To quote: "Who needs to code when you can use visual building blocks 
or even plain English to describe intent? Advances in natural-language 
processing and conceptual modeling will remove the need for 
traditional coding from app development. Software development tools 
will soon understand what you mean versus what you say."


So not everyone agrees with you.

The remarks about natural English in the article make me think LC 
ought to be more prominent.


I've always had a sneaking suspicion that "someone" went 'off at the 
mouth' a bit during
the Kickstarter and promised things that, either, they had no 
intention of keeping, or promised
things that, really, they didn't realise would involve them in so 
many unseen complexities that

they would be, effectively, unrealisable.


I know Mark Waddingham pretty well, and I've never heard him propose 
anything that he didn't already have a good idea how to accomplish.


I'm not entirely sure why you equate my "someone" with Mark Waddingham; 
who has quite adequately demonstrated to be

"a right Captain Sensible" :)

R.


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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Geoff Canyon]

That would be disappointing.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:

>
> > On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:07 am, Geoff Canyon  wrote:
> >
> > repeat for each line L in someText with index i
>
> I can’t help wondering if open language will allow for new (or variations
> on existing) control structures. My impression is the intention is to allow
> for new command syntax only but I could be wrong.
>
>
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 10/24/2015 3:29 PM, Richmond wrote:

On 24/10/15 23:04, J. Landman Gay wrote:



I know Mark Waddingham pretty well, and I've never heard him propose
anything that he didn't already have a good idea how to accomplish.


I'm not entirely sure why you equate my "someone" with Mark Waddingham;
who has quite adequately demonstrated to be
"a right Captain Sensible" :)


Because Open Language was his idea, presented at a conference some years 
ago. I didn't stop to think that not everyone knows that.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Monte Goulding]

Well it doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t implement the additional variable in 
repeat. It just means you would need to do so directly in the engine. Out of 
interest I just took a look ant it wouldn’t be that tricky to do and at the 
same time you could support a repeat index variable on all the repeat styles. 
Because of that I’d suggest calling it a counter rather than index as index 
could get confusing in repeat with.

repeat for each line tLine in tText with counter tCounter
repeat for 10 with counter tCounter
repeat with tIndex = 1 to 10 step 2 with counter tCounter
repeat while condition with counter tCounter
repeat forever with counter tCounter

Not sure if I missed anything

Cheers

Monte

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:56 am, Geoff Canyon  wrote:
> 
> That would be disappointing.
> 
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Monte Goulding  
>> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:07 am, Geoff Canyon  wrote:
>>> 
>>> repeat for each line L in someText with index i
>> 
>> I can’t help wondering if open language will allow for new (or variations
>> on existing) control structures. My impression is the intention is to allow
>> for new command syntax only but I could be wrong.

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 8:43 am, JB  wrote:
> 
> As for Monty I am not sure if you are talking about his
> externals for mobile apps.  I do not have a mobile yet
> but when I get one I will definitely buy his externals.

Yay, note that a number of my iOS externals are also available for OS X and I 
also have a couple of fully cross platform externals available. I’m looking 
forward to 64 bit OS X so I can release my apple maps external (mergMK) on OS 
X. The work is already done.
> 
> I do not expect him to release that code but are there
> other examples he has released?

There’s a few FOSS licensed externals if you would like to check my github 
account:
https://github.com/montegoulding?tab=repositories 


Cheers

Monte
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[JB]

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Monte Goulding  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:14 am, JB  wrote:
>> 
>> Do you have a link
>> for the OS X externals you are selling?
> 
> Everything is at mergExt.com 
> 
> The externals available for OS X are:
> - mergJSON
> - mergAV
> - mergAWS
> - mergBLE
> - mergGoogle
> - mergNotify
> - mergBonjour (OX Build in next release)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
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Thanks, I will check it out.

JB


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recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive

[Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D]

Hi,

long time ago i created a program which creates a list of files of  backup cds 
or dvds and stores that listings in a database with some additional information 
like cd name/number.
So if the customer needs to know on which cd/dvd a needed fileis,  the database 
can be searched. This worked fine a long time. But with time the customer used 
harddrives for the backups.
So they imported now the file listing of harddrives. Even that worked fin. But 
now with bigger drives and more stuff stored on the drives my program is not 
able to import the file listing anymore if the number of files/folders exceed a 
special number. It just freezes.

If i try to create a directory listing of such a drive in Livecode i get an 
recursion limit error telling me that the recursion limit of 40 was 
reached. I tried to increase that limit, but i still get that error, but with 
the newly set value.

I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list and was 
originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002.
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html

Is there a way to scan a complete drive with LC regardless how many folders and 
subfolder that drive contains without getting that recursion limit error?

Regards,

Matthias




Matthias Rebbe
Bramkampsieke 13
32312 Lübbecke
Tel +49 5741 31
+49 160 5504462
Fax: +49 5741 310002
eMail: matth...@m-r-d.de 

BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 



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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Geoff Canyon]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:

> > On 25 Oct 2015, at 9:05 am, Geoff Canyon  wrote:
> >
> > The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would be
> > that:
> >
> > 1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something like
> > this.
> > 2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my "index"
> > version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with
> that.
> > (or both).
> > 3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving critical
> > mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine
> > directly.
>
> OK, well we can let Mark Waddingham comment on whether I’m right in that
> control structures are unlikely targets for open language or not. It seems
> quite unlikely to me as it’s significantly more complicated than commands.
> I’m not saying it’s not possible the ROI would be terrible. As in almost 0
> return for a reasonably heavy investment…


You might be right that control structures aren't included in the spec. I
disagree that the ROI would be terrible, not because I think it would be
easy to implement, but because I think the reward could be so great. The
fundamentals of xTalk haven't grown much in a long time, and I hope to see
that change.

I understand that others might disagree.

gc
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Monte Goulding]

Well I'd certainly like to see the cost benefit analysis on it ;-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 10:52 am, Geoff Canyon  wrote:
> 
> I think the reward could be so great.

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Re: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive

[Alex Tweedly]

Are you sure you are actually hitting a recursion limit ?

Another (perhaps more likely) problem is that you are hitting a 
protected directory, or one which you cannot access (e.g. because of 
strange character in name).


I would (at a minimum) put in a check that you have moved to the folder:

on directoryWalk whatFolder
  --put whatFolder
  --exit to top
  set the itemDel to "/"
  set the directory to whatFolder
  if the directory <> whatFolder then
 -- give some error somewhere
 exit directoryWalk
  end if
  put the files into temp

If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a 
recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some 
time ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up)


-- Alex.

On 25/10/2015 00:28, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D wrote:

Hi,

long time ago i created a program which creates a list of files of  backup cds 
or dvds and stores that listings in a database with some additional information 
like cd name/number.
So if the customer needs to know on which cd/dvd a needed fileis,  the database 
can be searched. This worked fine a long time. But with time the customer used 
harddrives for the backups.
So they imported now the file listing of harddrives. Even that worked fin. But 
now with bigger drives and more stuff stored on the drives my program is not 
able to import the file listing anymore if the number of files/folders exceed a 
special number. It just freezes.

If i try to create a directory listing of such a drive in Livecode i get an 
recursion limit error telling me that the recursion limit of 40 was 
reached. I tried to increase that limit, but i still get that error, but with 
the newly set value.

I am using a script snippet which was posted by Scott Rossi to the list and was 
originally from Geoff Canyon in 2002.
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/metacard/2002-August/002274.html

Is there a way to scan a complete drive with LC regardless how many folders and 
subfolder that drive contains without getting that recursion limit error?

Regards,

Matthias




Matthias Rebbe
Bramkampsieke 13
32312 Lübbecke
Tel +49 5741 31
+49 160 5504462
Fax: +49 5741 310002
eMail: matth...@m-r-d.de 

BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 



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Re: parentheses within string break value()

[Scott Rossi]

Is 123 a function?  If yes, I believe you need to remove the quotes surrounding 
it.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media UX/UI Design

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:46 PM, Dr. Hawkins  wrote:
> 
> I am finding that parentheses within strings break value()
> 
> put  value ("Abc" & 45 & "123(def)")
> 
> 
> produces
> 
> 
> Script compile error:
> 
> Error description: local: not a valid variable or constant name
> 
> 
> If I escape it as
> 
> put  value ("Abc" & 45 & "123\(def\)")
> 
> 
> it produces
> 
> Abc45123
> 
> I don't think that either of these is correct, or am I missing something?
> 
> I am trying to assemble strings which have variable names using custom
> properties for using in database queries, such as
> 
> "SELECT foo FROM " & tableName & " WHERE bar > 7;"
> 
> 
> and in my learned paranoia, I want to wrap each condition with parentheses
> when I have more than one (I got tired of remembering precedence rules for
> each language, and which ones are screwy, and . . .)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
> (702) 508-8462
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Monte Goulding]

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 7:25 am, Richmond  wrote:
> 
> So, while the design philosophy of LiveCode may be that there may be several 
> ways to achieve something, there do still have to be constraints.

I expect there will be natural boundaries. Most syntax will still be defined by 
the core team. Some third party vendors will implement english like syntax for 
their stuff. Most folks just wanting to get the job done will continue with 
functions and commands. Some interesting syntax might be developed for fun but 
these are pluggable modules which aren’t delivered with the core product unless 
they are wanted there.

Cheers

Monte
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Mark Wieder]

On 10/24/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote:


* hilite -> highlight


Actually I filed a bug report on that six years ago.
http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8211

It got confirmed and ignored.
I just submitted a pull request.
Figured I might as well fix this myself.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Richard Gaskin]

JB wrote:

If you do get Open Language what will it do to the
speed?  They said LC8 would be good because it
will make it easier for developers to write code in
LC which needed to be and external before.

Then after releasing it they said it is slower to use
than a external written in C.

I would prefer better lessons and examples to write
externals if they are faster and the same goes for
Open Language.


That's a different but important part of the Builder language, the 
ability to call OS APIs.


I've worked with OS APIs in Pascal, C, and two xTalks, Tookbook's 
OpenTalk scripting language which provides that built-in, and CompileIt 
for HyperTalk.


The one thing I've learned from that is that the language you're using 
isn't all that important, because no matter what you're writing in the 
OS you're talking to expects C:  it uses C data types and structures, 
provides tons of great sample source but all in C, and requires that you 
think like a C programmer, understanding and managing data in ways a 
good xTalk normally insulates from even having to think about - the 
difference between a pointer and a handle isn't interesting to most 
xTalkers, but can be essential in C.


By the time you become fluent enough in C to understand OS APIs well 
enough to use them, you've already learned enough to write in it as well.


I'm sure that part of Builder will be very interesting for some tasks, 
but if I could add to that wish list it would be to see the externals 
SDK made as easy as possible to work with, including examples for each 
of the supported platforms.


Monte's done an amazing job showing off what the externals SDK can do 
for extending LC.  It would be great to see more people jump on board 
with it.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: catching pasted text and forcing unicode

[J. Landman Gay]

On 10/24/2015 3:24 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote:

Is there a civilized way to catch incoming text pasted into a field and
cover it properly?


I think the pasteKey message is what you want. Note that the IDE traps 
it, so you won't receive it there but it works in a standalone or when 
you suspend the development tools.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Geoff Canyon]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:

> Well it doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t implement the additional
> variable in repeat. It just means you would need to do so directly in the
> engine. Out of interest I just took a look ant it wouldn’t be that tricky
> to do and at the same time you could support a repeat index variable on all
> the repeat styles. Because of that I’d suggest calling it a counter rather
> than index as index could get confusing in repeat with.
>
> repeat for each line tLine in tText with counter tCounter
> repeat for 10 with counter tCounter
> repeat with tIndex = 1 to 10 step 2 with counter tCounter
> repeat while condition with counter tCounter
> repeat forever with counter tCounter
>
> Not sure if I missed anything
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>

The beauty of open language (in my dreams, perhaps not the spec) would be
that:

1. No one would have to dig into the engine to implement something like
this.
2. You could release your "counter" version, I could release my "index"
version, and the community would decide which they prefer and go with that.
(or both).
3. And neither 1 nor 2 precludes something like this achieving critical
mass such that the engine maintainers decide to put it in the engine
directly.

gc
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Re: catching pasted text and forcing unicode

[Dr. Hawkins]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:25 PM, J. Landman Gay 
wrote:

> I think the pasteKey message is what you want. Note that the IDE traps it,
> so you won't receive it there but it works in a standalone or when you
> suspend the development tools.


That would let me trap it, and I'm resigned to that (just another button, I
suppose).  But is there any sane way to deal with the text?


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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parentheses within string break value()

[Dr. Hawkins]

I am finding that parentheses within strings break value()

put  value ("Abc" & 45 & "123(def)")


produces


Script compile error:

Error description: local: not a valid variable or constant name


If I escape it as

put  value ("Abc" & 45 & "123\(def\)")


it produces

Abc45123

I don't think that either of these is correct, or am I missing something?

I am trying to assemble strings which have variable names using custom
properties for using in database queries, such as

"SELECT foo FROM " & tableName & " WHERE bar > 7;"


and in my learned paranoia, I want to wrap each condition with parentheses
when I have more than one (I got tired of remembering precedence rules for
each language, and which ones are screwy, and . . .)


-- 
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq.
(702) 508-8462
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Re: recursion limit when creating file list of harddrive

[JB]

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Alex Tweedly  wrote:
> 
> 
> If that's not it, then you need to change to a serialized rather than a 
> recursive treewalk - I'm sure that's been posted on the use-list some time 
> ago (if you can't find it, let me know and I'll dig one up)
> 
> -- Alex.

I would like a copy of that if you
dig one up.

JB


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Re: Print stack as PDF

[stephen barncard]

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Rob Cozens  wrote:

> - Charles Reich, The Greening of America
> ___
>

This is so spooky. At this very moment, I was passing along the email of
Charles Reich to a crew that's working on a new GD documentary. Charles did
a noted interview with Jerry Garcia for rolling stone at Jerry's house in
1972 and I was involved in 'mastering' the 3 hours of interviews for
intelligibility at my home studio in Sausalito.
I copied back on to a cassette for Charles back then,  kept the work tape
for 40 years, and digitized it recently.

sqb

--
Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - Deeds Not Words
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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Mark Wieder]

On 10/24/2015 02:06 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


You must mean the derivatives; "highlight" has always been available.
But "highlightedIcon" is not. Or was not.


Yeah, that was the whole problem - trying to remember where it was 
available and where not. Now it'll be consistent.


I didn't even realize dehilite was a word in the dictionary.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: What is "Open Language"?

[Monte Goulding]

Well you've got a lot more experience with the engine and open language plans 
than me so if you say it's feasible and the cost benefit is sufficient to apply 
the resources rather than just working on the control structures in the engine 
then who am I to argue. Are the LCB control structures defined in LCB? If so 
I'll take a look and try implementing switch.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Oct 2015, at 12:17 pm, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> So yes, custom control structures are a really important part of Open 
> Language from my perspective.  You could make it far easier to write correct 
> code.

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Re: Keep Selection Focus When Switching to Substack

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami]

7.1 I am definitely losing my selection on touching the palette stack

BR

( from my mobile )




On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 12:14 AM -0700, "Paul Hibbert" 
> wrote:

On Oct 23, 2015, at 19:51, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  wrote:
>
> I think I asked this before,
>
> but… is there a way to keep the selection when switching to a substack that 
> is set to palette?
>
> The goal is to have buttons that operate on selected text, but in a separate 
> stack.
>
> Brahmanathaswami
>
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Which LC version on which platform?

I just tried LC 7 & 8 and it seemed to work OK, but in LC5.5.5 the focus was 
lost on switching to a palette stack.

Maybe as insurance you could put the selectedChunk into a global or custom 
property on suspendStack.

Paul
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Re: Keep Selection Focus When Switching to Substack

[Paul Hibbert]

On Oct 23, 2015, at 19:51, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami  wrote:
> 
> I think I asked this before, 
> 
> but… is there a way to keep the selection when switching to a substack that 
> is set to palette?
> 
> The goal is to have buttons that operate on selected text, but in a separate 
> stack.
> 
> Brahmanathaswami
> 
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Which LC version on which platform?

I just tried LC 7 & 8 and it seemed to work OK, but in LC5.5.5 the focus was 
lost on switching to a palette stack.

Maybe as insurance you could put the selectedChunk into a global or custom 
property on suspendStack.

Paul
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Re: Keeping up to date with

[Pierre Sahores]

Hello David,

Xcode 7.0.1 (7A1001) + LC 6.7.6 are, at least, working together …

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
www.sahores-conseil.com

> Le 24 oct. 2015 à 09:28, David Bovill  a écrit :
> 
> I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode does
> not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I upgrade
> for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync here?
> 
> I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which
> version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode -
> and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's not
> easy to find).
> 
> I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work with
> Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to know?
> 
> This is where you can find old versions of Xcode:
> https://developer.apple.com/downloads/?name=Xcode
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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

[Monte Goulding]

> On 24 Oct 2015, at 2:25 am, Peter TB Brett  wrote:
> 
> Urgh, this is pretty broken in the 0.6.0.  I'll file an issue and try to make 
> sure it's fixed for the next release.

I’ve submitted a fix for this and the indenting issues. There’s still a bit of 
a quirk with switch indenting because there appears to be no way to support the 
layout we are used to. The two choices we have that are bug free are:

No case indentation:

switch thing
   case thing1
   code
   break
   case thing2
   code 
   break
end switch

or increase and decrease indent on case

switch thing
case thing1
   code
   break
case thing2
   code
   break
end switch

I have implemented the latter because I think it is more readable and helpful 
when scanning code. The way it was originally implemented it relied on break to 
decrease the indent so it would look like this:

switch thing
   case thing1
  code
   break
   case thing2
  code
   break
end switch

The problem here is the break should be part of the case block and if the 
developer wants continuation and therefore doesn’t use break the indentation 
gets messed up. It’s worthwhile noting that other language packages I looked at 
seem to use the no case indentation style but I’m not a fan… Anyone have any 
thoughts on this?

Cheers

Monte
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Keeping up to date with

[David Bovill]

I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode does
not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I upgrade
for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync here?

I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which
version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode -
and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's not
easy to find).

I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work with
Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to know?

This is where you can find old versions of Xcode:
https://developer.apple.com/downloads/?name=Xcode
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Re: Keeping up to date with

[Monte Goulding]

The release notes are generated from lots of tiny little markdown files in the 
repo/docs/notes. One for each PR.

Cheers

Monte

Sent from my iPhone

> On 24 Oct 2015, at 7:32 pm, David Bovill  wrote:
> 
> Can we not use GitHub for release notes, and use a script to
> create the PDF's?

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Re: Keeping up to date with

[David Bovill]

Thanks Peter. The release notes section works with me.

Why are the Release Notes  PDF files that you have to manually search
through? Can we not use GitHub for release notes, and use a script to
create the PDF's?

On Saturday, 24 October 2015, Peter TB Brett 
wrote:

> On 2015-10-24 09:28, David Bovill wrote:
>
>> I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode
>> does
>> not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I upgrade
>> for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync here?
>>
>> I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which
>> version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode -
>> and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's not
>> easy to find).
>>
>
> Yes, this information must be featured prominently in the release notes.
> I've filed a bug about this on your behalf:
> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16278
>
> To download older versions of Xcode you need to log into
> https://developer.apple.com/ and go to the tools download page.  Apple
> don't make this process easy to describe, unfortunately. Quite the
> opposite. -_-
>
> I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work with
>> Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to
>> know?
>>
>
> Xcode 7.0 will work with the latest round of releases, including LiveCode
> 7.1.1, LiveCode 6.7.7,
>
> The next round of releases (expected early next week) will include Xcode
> 7.1 and iOS 9.1 support.  I'll have a chat with the core team to see
> whether there are any process improvements that we can feasibly make to
> reduce this delay in future (i.e. I'm not promising anything, but I'll look
> into it).
>
>   Peter
>
> --
> Dr Peter Brett 
> LiveCode Open Source Team
>
> LiveCode on reddit! 
>
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Re: Keeping up to date with

[David Bovill]

Thanks Monte - will take a look.

On Saturday, 24 October 2015, Monte Goulding 
wrote:

> The release notes are generated from lots of tiny little markdown files in
> the repo/docs/notes. One for each PR.
>
> Cheers
>
> Monte
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 24 Oct 2015, at 7:32 pm, David Bovill  wrote:
> >
> > Can we not use GitHub for release notes, and use a script to
> > create the PDF's?
>
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Why there is a difference between the gps timestamp and "the seconds" ?

[Ludovic THEBAULT]

Hello,

With mobilecurrentlocation() we can get the timestamp : "the time at which the 
measurement was taken, in seconds since 1970."
if the same time i get "the seconds" ("The seconds function returns the total 
number of seconds since midnight, January 1, 1970 GMT.), I do not get back the 
same value, even if the coordinate change and seem to be good) :

timestamp : 1445675392
the seconds : 1445679061

This is not always the same offset, but it's always "big".

It is normal ?

Thanks
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RE: Why there is a difference between the gps timestamp and "the seconds"?

[FlexibleLearning.com]

Looks like a 1 hour offset, plus a bit of lag.

Hugh Senior
FLCo

> Hello,
> 
> With mobilecurrentlocation() we can get the timestamp : "the time at which
> the measurement was taken, in seconds since 1970."
> if the same time i get "the seconds" ("The seconds function returns the
total
> number of seconds since midnight, January 1, 1970 GMT.), I do not get back
> the same value, even if the coordinate change and seem to be good) :
> 
> timestamp : 1445675392
> the seconds : 1445679061
> 
> This is not always the same offset, but it's always "big".
> 
> It is normal ?
> 
> Thanks


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Re: [ANN] "language-livecode" 0.6.0 for Atom Editor

[Kay C Lan]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Monte Goulding  wrote:

> Anyone have any thoughts on this?
>
> My first thought is... thank you! And my second is I agree with your
latter choice.
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Re: Keeping up to date with

[David Bovill]

Thanks - Pierre.

   - So Xcode 7.0.1 (7A1001) + LC 6.7.6 play well well
   - Seems like Xcode 7.0 or Xcode 7.01 does not play with iOS 9.1
   - However you can use Xcode 7.01 with Livecode 7.1 - and then use Xcode
   7.1 to install the app on iOS 9.1


I think the thing to do is not to upgrade Xcode in the Appstore - but to
download it directly from https://developer.apple.com/downloads/?name=Xcode
and then number the file according to the Xcode version, open it and then
add the path to the Livecode Mobile Preferences - that way things should
keep working if the latest version of Xcode is not playing well with
Livecode

On 24 October 2015 at 08:40, Pierre Sahores  wrote:

> Hello David,
>
> Xcode 7.0.1 (7A1001) + LC 6.7.6 are, at least, working together …
>
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> mobile : 06 03 95 77 70
> www.sahores-conseil.com
>
> > Le 24 oct. 2015 à 09:28, David Bovill  a écrit :
> >
> > I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode
> does
> > not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I
> upgrade
> > for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync here?
> >
> > I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which
> > version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode -
> > and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's not
> > easy to find).
> >
> > I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work with
> > Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to
> know?
> >
> > This is where you can find old versions of Xcode:
> > https://developer.apple.com/downloads/?name=Xcode
> > ___
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Re: Keeping up to date with

[Peter TB Brett]

On 2015-10-24 09:28, David Bovill wrote:
I just upgraded Xcode to 7.1 - and again I get the issue that Livecode 
does
not recognise this version. I think this has happened every time I 
upgrade
for the last 6 months. Is there a better way to keep things in sync 
here?


I think it would be good to have a place where it is documented which
version of Xcode you need to get working with which version of Livecode 
-
and where to download the version of Xcode you are looking for (it's 
not

easy to find).


Yes, this information must be featured prominently in the release notes. 
 I've filed a bug about this on your behalf: 
http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16278


To download older versions of Xcode you need to log into 
https://developer.apple.com/ and go to the tools download page.  Apple 
don't make this process easy to describe, unfortunately. Quite the 
opposite. -_-


I'm presently downloading Xcode 7.0 in the hope that that will work 
with
Livecode 7.1 - if anyone has Xcode 7.1 working that would be great to 
know?


Xcode 7.0 will work with the latest round of releases, including 
LiveCode 7.1.1, LiveCode 6.7.7,


The next round of releases (expected early next week) will include Xcode 
7.1 and iOS 9.1 support.  I'll have a chat with the core team to see 
whether there are any process improvements that we can feasibly make to 
reduce this delay in future (i.e. I'm not promising anything, but I'll 
look into it).


  Peter

--
Dr Peter Brett 
LiveCode Open Source Team

LiveCode on reddit! 

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