correlation <> causation - RunRev downloads accused of troublemaking

[Erik Hansen]

around the time i downloaded RunRev to a
Pentium lll Windows 98 this computer 
experienced some problems. other softwear had
been updated around the same time.

now the old software, presumably harmonious
with Windows 98, has been reinstalled.
the user is now leery of using RunRev at
all and contends that RunRev is "too modern"
for humble folksy old Windows 98.

The RunRev downloads go back to Windows 95.
could there be any basis for the idea that
Revolution is too modern to use on older
setups?

thank you,

Erik Hansen



=
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.erikhansen.org

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Re: Twostep compiler?

[A.C.T.]

Moin, Andre,

here is the TROLL again as I have been named by a fellow list member.


Anyway, you tested the encryption step I said on previous email?
I just did so, unfortunately the week has begun and I don't have time to 
dig into the encoded chunks, so I cannot find the clear text instantly 
to try changing code bits. As for "first level security" this is fine - 
but it does not answer the other aspects I tried to point out :-)

Anyway, I find this copyright note in "my" application 


* MetaCard 2.5 *
*Copyright 2002 MetaCard Corporation.  All Rights Reserved.*
*The software contained in this listing is proprietary to  *
*MetaCard Corporation, Boulder, Colorado and is covered by *
*U.S. and other copyright protection.  Unauthorized copying*
*adaptation, distribution, disassembling, use or display is*
*prohibited and may result in civil and criminal penalties.*

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. 04765-830060
Fax. 04765-830064
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Re: Twostep compiler?

[Geoff Canyon]

Warning -- I speak here only as someone who thinks he knows something, 
not as someone who actually knows anything!

Revolution does not run your code in an interpreted fashion. Neither 
does it pre-compile. The reason for this has nothing to do with 
proprietary byte-codes, but is a simple technical requirement. The 
engine translates Transcript into a table, with chunks of code 
referencing each other by pointer. This means that code runs very fast, 
as there is no lookup each time something needs to be called. It also 
means that the code _must_ be set up at runtime, in order to configure 
the pointers.

So your code is compiled at runtime, but only the first time it is 
loaded. As others have mentioned, you can encrypt your stacks to add a 
level of security. If security is paramount, it would be easy to write 
checksum-checking code into your app.

As far as the size of the Transcript code goes, talk to me again after 
you've written an app with a megabyte or more of Transcript in it ;-)

Oh, and self-modifying code isn't evil, just misunderstood.

regards,

Geoff Canyon
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mar 21, 2004, at 7:32 AM, A.C.T. wrote:

Hi,

please just ignore me if I am getting on your nerves - I have found a 
couple of hourse time to spend on Revolution so I am busy 
understanding the concepts behind it :-)

I read that many of you encode the plain text of their scripts to hide 
them from customer's eyes. Why is the plain text included at all? Even 
ancient interpreter languages (like old VC20 basic) don't write the 
PLAIN TEXT into a file, they use TOKEN. A "print" would be a one-byte 
token. This also speeds up reading the file in (less data to read).

The question I would like to ask is, since I HOPE Revolution isn't a 
"runtime-interpreter" but a modern "two-step" compiler that creates a 
bytecode from the "human readable code", which again is executed 
internally: Why isn't the bytecode saved as the executable code for 
standalone-applications? It's very likely that this bytecode is 
platform  independant (it would be funny if it wasn't since you would 
have to compile a new runtime-executor for every platform then)...

Anyway: Saving the "original source code" inside a runtime application 
does not make much sense: It needs a lot of space (all function names, 
variables etc don't have to be stored with their "human readable" 
fully qualified names, their code references would do nicely), the 
application has to compile the code every time it is run (what for? If 
it has to compile it anyway, the pre-executable code would do nicely 
for the application and it would be less "spyable") instead of 
directly using the bytecode - and it makes the application "hackable".
I tried changing the "Transcript" code inside a "standalone 
application" to see if this is a security issue (meaning: I use a 
normal text editor that is binary safe - I am NOT using Revolution). 
IT IS. Changing the clear text code inside the application leads to 
the CHANGED CODE being executed - so it would be easy for an evil 
minded to put some nasty stuff into the application, the code to be 
executed is not checksum-protected. This would at least be a BIT more 
difficult if only the bytecode was stored in the standalone app, not 
the original source code.

Again: Please excuse my potentially "offending" questions. I am trying 
to understand the technical implications of using Revolution and to 
find out why some issues seem ... somewhat "complicated", where they 
do not have to be complicated :-)

Marc Albrecht
A.C.T. / Level-2
Glinder Str. 2
27432 Ebersdorf
Deutschland
Tel. (+49) (0)4765-830060
Fax. (+49) (0)4765-830064
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Re: export animated gifs?

[Klaus Major]

Hi John,

How do I export my imported animated gifs?
Hmmm, did you try:

...
put img "your animatd.gif" into url("binfile:" & your_path_here)
...
Works here for me...

When I use 'export as gif', it simply exports the current frame...
Export will always export the current (visible) frame.

Hope that helps...

Thanks
JR
Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.major-k.de
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Presentation

[Jordi]

First of all, let me introduce myself. My name is Jordi and I'm not a 
programmer. I'm just a psychologist interested in programming since 
HyperCard. Neither my programming knowledge nor my english are not as 
they should be, so I hope you could understand me.
I am trying to make a presentation software to present visual and 
auditory stimuli and to send marks to a electrocardiogram recorder 
(BIOPAC System). I know runRev can 'write to file "LPT1:"' but BIOPAC 
waits for a TTL pulse. I don't know where is the lost link. How could I 
send a code trough the paralel port in a pulse form? Anybody can help 
me in this topic?

Thanks in advance. I hope to learn a lot in this list.

--
Jordi
RunRev 2.1.2
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Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"

[Rob Cozens]

Hi Marc,

How can I make this short & sweet?

If you are not comfortable with Transcript syntax, then don't use 
Runtime Revolution.  There are a host of people here that do, and 
many of us don't share your view the succinct, cryptic syntax al la C 
is the be-all and end-all example of what a programming language 
should be.

This issue was discussed in depth within the last month:

   Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?

Kevin Miller has assured this group that Runtime Revolution will not 
abandon its xTalk roots by trying to shoe-horn C syntax into 
Transcript.

And I, for one, respond "Thank God!"
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"

[David Burgun]

Hi, Scott,

This is an interesting point of view Marc, but I wonder if you are basing
your point of view on your knowledge of C.  Look at your example:
Yes, absolutely. I did not make that clear enough, sorry.
The basic for my "excurse" was, of course, that the "reader" (and 
the writer) of code is a developer, not a narrator. A developer will 
most likely be used to the standard term "++". That's the basic for 
me saying "it is clear".
Well, actually a "C/C++" developer. I learned to program in assember 
and in most assemeblers I've come across, the increment operation has 
a specific instruction, like so:

IAR  - Increment A-Register
INC  HL  - Inrement HL Register
I then learned Pascal and Basic and got used to this Syntax:

counter := counter + 1  Pascal
let counter = counter + 1  Baslc
I then moved onto C and the syntax:

counter++

Was not at all obvious to start with and so I used:

counter = counter + 1  Which worked just fine, until I looked at the 
assembler that was generated and found that it did something like 
this:

MOV  A,counter
ADD A,1
MOV counter,A
Instead of:

INC A

I would imagine that the ++ syntax came about for a number of reasons 
none of which has anything to do with clarity:

1.  It was quicker to type counter++, and using a Teletype this was important.
2. It was quicker to print counter++ again using a Teletype at 33 BPS 
this was important.
3. It was easier for the code generator to substitute an "INC" 
operation when ++ was spotted and with limited memory and execution 
speed this was important.

All these issues are no more. To me the syntax

counter = counter + 1 or add 1 to counter is MUCH clearer, but in 
this case it really doesn't make any real difference. I really 
wouldn't mind if Transcript supported both syntax, but I would 
imagine that this would cause confusion for people that don't have a 
hard-core programming background, so it's better to just have one 
syntax, and the "add 1 to counter" seems the better choice.

Just my 5 cents worth, cos I'm waiting for a compile to finish!!

All the Best
Dave
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Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"

[Jim Carwardine]

I really liked the ability of HC to execute another language in it's scripts
- like Applescript.  I would think that at some time, if Rev had a similar
ability for several languages, C included, that would be a good thing... Jim

on 3/22/04 8:37 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

> Hi Marc,
> 
> How can I make this short & sweet?
> 
> If you are not comfortable with Transcript syntax, then don't use
> Runtime Revolution.  There are a host of people here that do, and
> many of us don't share your view the succinct, cryptic syntax al la C
> is the be-all and end-all example of what a programming language
> should be.
> 
> This issue was discussed in depth within the last month:
> 
>   Re: Is Transcript's English orientation a plus or minus?
> 
> Kevin Miller has assured this group that Runtime Revolution will not
> abandon its xTalk roots by trying to shoe-horn C syntax into
> Transcript.
> 
> And I, for one, respond "Thank God!"

-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.


Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Info Line: 902-823-2477, Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139



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Re: counter++ versus "add 1 to counter"

[Rob Cozens]

Morning Jim,

If one wants a C/RR combination environment, it's available now:

	build compiled extensions to Transcript in C.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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RE: Documentations Biggest Flaw

[Springer, Paul]

Amen - thanks Dave. I will push through to learn it because I think the time
saved in the end will be well worth the trouble, but it bugs me that a tool
that it so excellent in so many ways frustrates me so much. It can take me
forever to figure out how to do something that I am certain can be easily
done; I just have to uncover that one gem of information buried somewhere in
a bottomless treasure chest of hyperlinked docs. Sometimes it feels like I
am trapped in an automated telephone "help" menu system. Even after I see
something useful it usually takes me many minutes of near random clicking to
get back to it.

Maybe I need to understand the document search mechanism better. Why can't I
type in multiple key words to search on? I suppose there is some new gem of
information that will help me find things more easily - does anybody know
where that is?

Thank,
-Paul

-Original Message-
From: Dave Calkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 12:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Documentations Biggest Flaw


.
.
.

I believe that the lack of the visual aspect of leaning is at the root 
of most of the complaints about the documentation. The information is 
there, but many people can seem to find it (they don't know what word 
to type in the find field etc.), nor will they be able to easily grasp 
the information once they do find it. They can not "see" it happen or 
easily follow the instructions on how to learn to use and implement the 
software because a "visual" presentation of the information is missing. 
Even the tutorials are this way. They verbally tell you what you need 
to do, but offer no visual representation of the process or of what it 
should look like. To these people learning RR will be a rather hard 
task. Most  people of this learning style will not push through to 
learn it.

.
.
.

Dave Calkins

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Re: OptionKey madness

[Frank Leahy]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 02:13  PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Subject: Re: OptionKey madness
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=US-ASCII;   format=flowed
On Mar 20, 2004, at 3:24 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

on rawKeyDown k
  if optionKey() is "down" then put k
  else  pass rawKeyDown
end rawKeyDown
... displays the value of k when typing Option-2, Option-5, or
Option-8 into a field, but not when typing any other numeric Option
keys in a field.
What gives?
I am getting the same results as you with the following setup:

Mac OS X.3.3
Rev 2.2 rc2

Richard,

This works as expected on my machine (Mac OSX, 10.2.8) -- all keycodes 
come through and the optionKey is correct when up and down.

on rawKeyDown whichKey
  put "raw key " & whichKey && the optionKey
  pass rawKeyDown -- same with or without this
end rawKeyDown
Are you sure you don't have an init installed that is grabbing certain 
keystrokes?

-- Frank

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Re: OptionKey madness

[Scott Rossi]

On 3/22/04 6:58 AM, "Frank Leahy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This works as expected on my machine (Mac OSX, 10.2.8) -- all keycodes
> come through and the optionKey is correct when up and down.
> 
> on rawKeyDown whichKey
>  put "raw key " & whichKey && the optionKey
>  pass rawKeyDown -- same with or without this
> end rawKeyDown


Did you try typing the keystrokes into a field?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: Presentation

[Dar Scott]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 03:41 AM, Jordi wrote:

I am trying to make a presentation software to present visual and 
auditory stimuli and to send marks to a electrocardiogram recorder 
(BIOPAC System). I know runRev can 'write to file "LPT1:"' but BIOPAC 
waits for a TTL pulse. I don't know where is the lost link. How could 
I send a code trough the paralel port in a pulse form? Anybody can 
help me in this topic?
It might be that the last character written to LPT: is on the 8 
character output lines.  You might be able to generate a pulse by 
writing numToChar(1) and then numToChar(0).  The driver will expect a 
handshake, so that might be a problem.  You might be able to get around 
this by opening and closing the port.  Or maybe you can loop back some 
other line.  This might require the classic parallel port mode.

Another approach would be to use a generic I/O port driver that you 
open and send a control byte stream.  There are a few around.  The name 
DriverLynx comes to mind, but that might be something else.

Another approach is to use RTS from a serial port.  Pulse it by opening 
and closing the port.  The voltage levels go outside of TTL, so you 
might need to do something about that.

Dar Scott

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Re: Database Experience

[paolo]

I  installed the cgi-engine (Rev 2.0 for Linux)  in the cgi-bin of my server
provider (Linux/apache) an it work great ... then i tryedtoconnectto a
mysql-database  after having
- uploaded the database-driver (dbmysql.so from the Linux folder) to the
server
- set the permission of the file (chmod 777 )
- set 'revSetDatabaseDriverPath' to point the cgi-engine to the database
drivers
- written a cgi-scripts to connectto a MYSQL database installed on the
server
(put revOpenDatabase(cinfo["MYSQL","dbhost,dbdatabase,dbuser,dbpassword)
into dbresult)
- run the CGI

I  got:   revdberr,invalid database type

I guess this is because revolution can not find the driver. Am I right?
I cecked the 'revSetDatabaseDriverPath'.. it is correct  .. any idea?

Ciao Paolo

> Rev+PostgreSQL+Linux guru Pierre Sahores might give
> you more detailed advice, but I'd say that once your
> ISP has installed the server, you'll need to :
> - install the cgi-engine in the right place
> - upload the database-drivers to the server
> - write your cgi-scripts, using
> 'revSetDatabaseDriverPath' to point the cgi-engine to
> the database drivers.
>
> Hope this helped,
>
> Jan Schenkel.
>
> =
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."
(La Rochefoucauld)
>
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pdf docs

[Dave Calkins]

On Sunday, March 21, 2004, at 10:42  PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Subject: Re: pdf docs
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 03/21/2004 10:15:52 PM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'll see about getting the PDFs online.
-- Thanks, I want it for searching and printing parts not whole thing.
There is another reason for having the PDFs available. I like putting 
the information on my PDA and can take them with me and read through 
them where ever I am. I did this with the 1.1.1 docs and would like to 
be able to do it with the latest docs.

Dave Calkins

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Re: Documentations Biggest Flaw

[Frank Leahy]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 05:00  PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Subject: RE: Documentations Biggest Flaw
To: 'How to use Revolution' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain

Maybe I need to understand the document search mechanism better. Why 
can't I
type in multiple key words to search on? I suppose there is some new 
gem of
information that will help me find things more easily - does anybody 
know
where that is?

If RunRev would put the docs online, in html format, then we could 
Google them.

Both PHP (http://www.php.net/docs.php) and MYSQL 
(http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/index.html) have their docs online, and it 
makes finding things a breeze.  But the BEST THING about having them 
online is that user can ANNOTATE THEM!  Check out 
http://uk.php.net/manual/en/function.strlen.php  for example.

There are all sorts of free comment systems out there, it would be at 
most a couple of days work to get something like the PHP's or MYSQL's 
docs with comments up and running on the RunRev web site.

-- Frank

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Re: OptionKey madness

[Frank Leahy]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 05:00  PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: Scott Rossi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OptionKey madness
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
On 3/22/04 6:58 AM, "Frank Leahy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This works as expected on my machine (Mac OSX, 10.2.8) -- all keycodes
come through and the optionKey is correct when up and down.
on rawKeyDown whichKey
 put "raw key " & whichKey && the optionKey
 pass rawKeyDown -- same with or without this
end rawKeyDown


Did you try typing the keystrokes into a field?

Nope, doesn't work in a field.

Having worked at Apple, the feeling was that the command key and 
function keys are for user input (menus, and user or app choosable 
functions respectively).  And there's the question of what happens if 
someone wants to type a bullet character into the field with option-8, 
is Richard not going to let the bullet character appear in the field?

There is a way around this bug of course -- Richard can simply watch 
every character being added to the field, and if the last character 
matches one of the optionKey characters, then do whatever he was going 
to do in the rawKeyDown handler.

-- Frank

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Re: Documentations Biggest Flaw

[Kevin Miller]

On 21/3/04 5:29 pm, Dave Calkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have been "learning" Rev for about close to 2 years now and have been
> programing since the days of the Card punch machines, (you didn't want
> to drop your program which could easily have a "stack" of punched cards
> several inches high - debugging a this kind of problem was never a
> pretty picture). I also have a background in education.
> 
> Over the past couple of years I have seen many people complain about
> the documentation that comes with RR. I just realized what I believe is
> RR documentation's biggest flaw. It is not the amount of information
> presented. Nor is it the type of information that is presented. It is
> how the information is presented. The information is presented in a
> style that is aimed predominately at one type of learning style. It is
> aimed mainly at those who learn best with a what is called a verbal
> learning style.
> 
> There are three different ways or styles in which people learn: verbal,
> visual, and kinesthetic. Educators know that in order to have most of
> their students grasp the information they are trying to get across,
> they must structure and present their lesson in ways that will trigger
> all three types of learning.
> 
> Verbal learners will love the rev documentation. They learn best by
> verbal communication. They pick things up by reading or listening. The
> documentation for this type of learner is fabulous.
> 
> Kinesthetic learners understand things by taking them apart, putting
> them back together, practicing with the parts. Getting in there and
> swinging the hammer, pounding a few nails, hands on kind of thing; that
> is how they learn best. With rev, they will learn the most as they play
> with the cook book, open up the scripts, seeing how they work,
> modifying them to see what happens. The rev documentation is OK here,
> not great, but it has been improving in this area.
> 
> The visual learner needs pictures to "see" how things operate. They
> learn best by looking at screen shots of what is being talked about,
> looking at a picture of the icon being discussed, by watching the
> computer move the mouse on the screen to select the proper menu item,
> by having a little man pop onto the screen and show him what to do,
> etc. This type of presentation is essential to a visual learner and is
> almost non existent in the rev documentation.
> 
> I believe that the lack of the visual aspect of leaning is at the root
> of most of the complaints about the documentation. The information is
> there, but many people can seem to find it (they don't know what word
> to type in the find field etc.), nor will they be able to easily grasp
> the information once they do find it. They can not "see" it happen or
> easily follow the instructions on how to learn to use and implement the
> software because a "visual" presentation of the information is missing.
> Even the tutorials are this way. They verbally tell you what you need
> to do, but offer no visual representation of the process or of what it
> should look like. To these people learning RR will be a rather hard
> task. Most  people of this learning style will not push through to
> learn it.
> 
> People are usually not just one type of learner, all visual, all
> verbal, or all kinesthetic, but are most often a mix of learning types
> with a predominate preference. I myself am a visual / kinesthetic type
> of learner. People in our world today are usually much more visual in
> orientation, ie. they prefer TV to reading, etc. As such, it is the
> visual learner who will have the most difficult time with learning RR
> from the documentation. When you look at the documentation, it is 99.9
> % text. This is one of the reasons I believe RR hasn't exploded as "The
> Programing Language" for all platforms. It can appear daunting, vast,
> and complex. It is also why many people don't take to it like a duck to
> water.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I think that the amount of information in the docs
> is superb. I also know that adding the visual aspect to the documents
> will add to their size, but it will open up RR to a vastly larger
> audience. It will also, I believe, inspire many more people as to what
> can be done with RR.
> 
> Revolution has the tools to have a great learning environment for the
> "Visual" and "Kinesthetic" learner.

Fantastic post.  You have perfectly summed up what is one of our very top
priorities for the next couple of releases of Revolution!  Stay tuned for
big improvements.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: Run Rev hangs while loading plug-ins

[Jim Hurley]

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:14:17 +1000
From: Sarah Reichelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Run Rev hangs while loading plug-ins
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
I've had this happen (Mac OS X) and I never discovered why. Although it
seems to hang while loading plugins, emptying the plugins folder
doesn't help. The only solution I found was to re-install. It hasn't
happened often but I now always keep the installation disk image, just
in case :-)
Sarah

On 22 Mar 2004, at 5:19 am, Jim Hurley wrote:

 Has anyone else experienced this?

 My copy of RR 2.1.2 (Mac OS 9) seem to wear out after a while--pardon
 the anthropomorphism.
 After a period of time, when opening RR, it hangs while loading the
 plug-ins. Is there a work- around when this happens?
 My only recourse has been to always keep a clean backup and trash the
 non-functional copy.
 > Jim

Sarah,

I did a little more experimenting with this. I replaced the plugins 
folder with one from a working version of RR. No dice.

I next replace the components folder and all was well.

 Next time I'll try individual items within the components folder to 
see which one is at fault.

Jim
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Re: OptionKey madness

[Dar Scott]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 12:15 PM, Frank Leahy wrote:

There is a way around this bug of course -- Richard can simply watch 
every character being added to the field, and if the last character 
matches one of the optionKey characters, then do whatever he was going 
to do in the rawKeyDown handler.
That's part of the problem.  The rawKeyDown and the keyDown are not 
sent.

Dar Scott

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selectedText confusion

[Graham Samuel]

I've got a list field where one line is hilited (I can see the hilite), and 
I have the following handler in it

on mouseUp
  global lcgCurrentPerson
  put the selectedText into lcgCurrentPerson
end mouseUp
I send a mouseUp from a handler in the stack which owns the field in order 
to fill my variable lcgCurrentPerson, but all I get is empty. Can anyone 
explain this?

(RR2.2RC on Windows XP Home Edition)

TIA

Graham

---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  

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[ANN] PDF, RTF and TXT versions of Rev 2.1.2 Docs available

[Ken Ray]

Your wish is my command...

You can download the docs in PDF, RTF and TXT formats (basically the results
of Geoff's fabulous RevRTFer stack):

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm

Scroll down and you should see them...

Enjoy!

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Dave Calkins
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 12:15 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: pdf docs
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, March 21, 2004, at 10:42  PM, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Subject: Re: pdf docs
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 03/21/2004 10:15:52 PM, 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >
> >> I'll see about getting the PDFs online.
> >> -- Thanks, I want it for searching and printing parts not whole 
> >> thing.
> >>
> 
> There is another reason for having the PDFs available. I like putting 
> the information on my PDA and can take them with me and read through 
> them where ever I am. I did this with the 1.1.1 docs and 
> would like to 
> be able to do it with the latest docs.
> 
> Dave Calkins
> 
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Re: selectedText confusion

[Klaus Major]

Hi Graham,

I've got a list field where one line is hilited (I can see the 
hilite), and I have the following handler in it

on mouseUp
  global lcgCurrentPerson
  put the selectedText into lcgCurrentPerson
end mouseUp
I send a mouseUp from a handler in the stack which owns the field in 
order to fill my variable lcgCurrentPerson, but all I get is empty. 
Can anyone explain this?
Does:
...
  put the selectedText of me into lcgCurrentPerson
  ## of me or fld xyz...
...
help?

(RR2.2RC on Windows XP Home Edition)

TIA

Graham
Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.major-k.de
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RE: data base problem

[Ken Ray]

Hershrev,

When posting to the list you'll get the best response if you can provide as
much information as possible. Your post below left me asking:

1) What DB?
2) What won't work? Can't connect? Can't query? What?
3) 2.2 Beta, or Release Candidate (RC) 1 or 2?
4) What platform are you running on?

And that was just in the first 30 seconds... ;-)

In any event, please resubmit your request, but with more info and I'm sure
one of us can help you out.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hershrev
> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 4:59 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: data base problem
> 
> 
> Hi all , for some reason I can't get this db to work on 2.2 
> beta as a  
> standalone . I included all the drivers. (at least what I saw on the 
> general page).
> Thanks , hershrev
> 
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RE: correlation <> causation - RunRev downloads accused of troublemaking

[Ken Ray]

Erik, Rev is totally Win98 compatible up to 2.1.2 (2.2 has had some
compatibility issues with Win98, but that'll be dealt with before official
release). So tell them not to worry...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Erik Hansen
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:14 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: correlation <> causation - RunRev downloads accused 
> of troublemaking
> 
> 
> 
> around the time i downloaded RunRev to a
> Pentium lll Windows 98 this computer 
> experienced some problems. other softwear had
> been updated around the same time.
> 
> now the old software, presumably harmonious
> with Windows 98, has been reinstalled.
> the user is now leery of using RunRev at
> all and contends that RunRev is "too modern"
> for humble folksy old Windows 98.
> 
> The RunRev downloads go back to Windows 95.
> could there be any basis for the idea that
> Revolution is too modern to use on older
> setups?
> 
> thank you,
> 
> Erik Hansen
> 
> 
> 
> =
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.erikhansen.org
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. 
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
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RE: selectedText confusion

[Ken Ray]

How about "put the hilitedText of me into lcgCurrentPerson"

Are you sure that the line is highlighted before executing your code? Just
curious...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Graham Samuel
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:45 AM
> To: use-revolution-request-lists.runrev.com
> Subject: selectedText confusion
> 
> 
> I've got a list field where one line is hilited (I can see 
> the hilite), and 
> I have the following handler in it
> 
> on mouseUp
>global lcgCurrentPerson
>put the selectedText into lcgCurrentPerson
> end mouseUp
> 
> I send a mouseUp from a handler in the stack which owns the 
> field in order 
> to fill my variable lcgCurrentPerson, but all I get is empty. 
> Can anyone 
> explain this?
> 
> (RR2.2RC on Windows XP Home Edition)
> 
> TIA
> 
> Graham
> 
> ---
> Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  
> 
> 
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Closing one stack and opening another

[Stephen King]

Hi All,

Very simple question I suspect, I'm just not sure of the 'best' way to do
this.

I have a Splash stack (hidden) and various datastacks which I only want open
one at a time. What is the best way to close one stack (by a button on a
card of that stack) and opening/displaying another stack and trasferring
control to that new stack.

Cheers
Steve

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Re: selectedText confusion

[hershrev]

if the script isn't in the field the text is then you have to write
put the selectedText of field "theTextIsIn" into myVar
On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 04:04 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
How about "put the hilitedText of me into lcgCurrentPerson"

Are you sure that the line is highlighted before executing your code? 
Just
curious...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Graham Samuel
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:45 AM
To: use-revolution-request-lists.runrev.com
Subject: selectedText confusion
I've got a list field where one line is hilited (I can see
the hilite), and
I have the following handler in it
on mouseUp
   global lcgCurrentPerson
   put the selectedText into lcgCurrentPerson
end mouseUp
I send a mouseUp from a handler in the stack which owns the
field in order
to fill my variable lcgCurrentPerson, but all I get is empty.
Can anyone
explain this?
(RR2.2RC on Windows XP Home Edition)

TIA

Graham

---
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Re: data base problem

[hershrev]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 03:59 PM, Ken Ray wrote:

Hershrev,

When posting to the list you'll get the best response if you can 
provide as
much information as possible. Your post below left me asking:

1) What DB?
Postgres
2) What won't work? Can't connect? Can't query? What?
"revdberr,invalid connection id" (only as a standalone otherwise it 
works fine.)
3) 2.2 Beta, or Release Candidate (RC) 1 or 2?
2
4) What platform are you running on?
Mac osx 10.2.8
And that was just in the first 30 seconds... ;-)
Just don't work.
In any event, please resubmit your request, but with more info and I'm 
sure
one of us can help you out.
I really appreciate it.
Thanks, hershrev
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hershrev
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 4:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: data base problem
Hi all , for some reason I can't get this db to work on 2.2
beta as a
standalone . I included all the drivers. (at least what I saw on the
general page).
Thanks , hershrev
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Rev docs

[Dr . John R . Vokey]

The RTF file won't open in TextEdit (which is what I normally use to 
read rtf on my Mac:OS X 10.3.3, as I don't have any Micro$loth products 
on my computers).

On 22-Mar-04, at 1:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Your wish is my command...

You can download the docs in PDF, RTF and TXT formats (basically the 
results
of Geoff's fabulous RevRTFer stack):

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm

Scroll down and you should see them...

Enjoy!

--
John R. Vokey, PhD
Professor
B.E.R.G. - Behaviour and Evolution Research Group
Micro-Cognition Laboratory
Department of Psychology & Neuroscience
University of Lethbridge
Lethbridge, Alberta T1K 3M4
CANADA
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Array question

[Glen Bojsza]

Hi everyone,

I have an array that uses sequential numeric keys (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 
8, 9, 10 etc) and I want to create an array based on the first array 
but on a linear range that is user defined.

Example, the user wants the array from 3 through 7.

This can be done using repeat loops but can it be done using a single 
line command?

thanks,

Glen

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RE: Rev docs

[Ken Ray]

Thanks, Andrew Meit alerted me to this and so I've re-uploaded a revised
version that should open in TextEdit. Apparently the "raw" RTF as exported
by RevRTFer doesn't quite work with TextEdit; I had to open it in Word and
resave it as RTF.



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Rev docs
> 
> 
> The RTF file won't open in TextEdit (which is what I normally use to 
> read rtf on my Mac:OS X 10.3.3, as I don't have any 
> Micro$loth products 
> on my computers).
> 
> On 22-Mar-04, at 1:50 PM, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Your wish is my command...
> >
> > You can download the docs in PDF, RTF and TXT formats (basically the
> > results
> > of Geoff's fabulous RevRTFer stack):
> >
> >   http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm
> >
> > Scroll down and you should see them...
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> --
> John R. Vokey, PhD
> Professor
> B.E.R.G. - Behaviour and Evolution Research Group 
> Micro-Cognition Laboratory Department of Psychology & 
> Neuroscience University of Lethbridge Lethbridge, Alberta T1K 
> 3M4 CANADA
> 
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Re: Array question

[Mark Brownell]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 02:04  PM, Glen Bojsza wrote:

Example, the user wants the array from 3 through 7.

This can be done using repeat loops but can it be done using a single 
line command?

thanks,

Glen
You could create a function that does it for you, that could get the 
data in 3 through 7 of your larger array and package it just the way 
you need it when the function returns it.

Warning: untested handler

Example:
put getSpotAtoSpotB(myArray, 3, 7) into rackOfData1
function getSpotAtoSpotB tArray startSpot endSpot
   put "" into zap
   repeat with i = startSpot to endSpot
  put tArray[i] & "," after zap
   end repeat
   return zap
end getSpotAtoSpotB
So this way you can add the functionality you need to your own code. 
You can have one line return four items of a middle section of an array.

I can't remember if you have to use the actual array as a global 
instead of passing it as a property of the function. If that is the 
case then just declare the array a global and use it instead of tArray 
with "function getSpotAtoSpotB startSpot endSpot."

Mark

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Re: Rev docs

[Judy Perry]

The file's probably too big... (my best guess).

Judy

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Dr.John R.Vokey wrote:

> The RTF file won't open in TextEdit (which is what I normally use to
> read rtf on my Mac:OS X 10.3.3, as I don't have any Micro$loth products
> on my computers).
>
> On 22-Mar-04, at 1:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Your wish is my command...

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Re: Documentations Biggest Flaw

[Kurt Kaufman]

"...
The visual learner needs pictures to "see" how things operate. They
> learn best by looking at screen shots of what is being talked about,
> looking at a picture of the icon being discussed, by watching the
> computer move the mouse on the screen to select the proper menu item,
> by having a little man pop onto the screen and show him what to do,
> etc. ..."
The music notation program "Finale" has a rather steep learning curve 
and many, many tools that do very specific things in terms of notation, 
precise page layout and symbol design.  In the latest release there are 
included a dozen or so "Flash" movies that a geared towards the new 
user, and are task-oriented, i.e. "setting up a document; entering 
notes; editing notes; adding a staff; printing parts", etc.  This same 
sort of Quickstart video tutorial might be useful for beginners where 
Revolution is concerned.
The movies might be included with the product, or could be a separate 
download (Flash movies are not generally large files compared to 
video)- and new users who are non-programmers should be especially 
encouraged to view them.

my 2 cents,
Kurt
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Documentation's Biggest Flaw

[Dave Calkins]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 12:50  PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Revolution has the tools to have a great learning environment for the
"Visual" and "Kinesthetic" learner.
Fantastic post.  You have perfectly summed up what is one of our very 
top
priorities for the next couple of releases of Revolution!  Stay tuned 
for
big improvements.

Kind regards,

Kevin

It's great to know that this is a major priority. Thanks for the kind 
words. I had hoped that my post would be received in the spirit it was 
given, as a desire to see this RR become the best programing tool 
available and that changes would be made in order to make it so.

If there is anything I can do to help with that let me know.

Dave Calkins

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Re: OptionKey madness

[j]

Exhibit B is the set of pre-assigned Function keys in OS X:  F9, F10,
and F11 are for Exposé, and on PowerBooks F1 through F6 have other
pre-assigned behaviors, and F7 toggles Ful Keyboard Access in windows
and dialogs, leaving only two keys (F8 and F12) for reliable use by Mac
developers for user input.
On my TiBook, the keys marked F1 through F7 have assigned functions 
(screen brightness, volume, number lock, display mirroring), but these 
are not technically the fkey uses.  To use fkeys 1 through 7, I hold 
down the "fn" key, which is in the lower left corner next to "ctrl."

As it is now, the fn-fkey combos do nothing (wait, F5 chooses 
"Complete" in Mail's Edit menu, whatever that is supposed to do...), so 
these keys are technically available for use by applications.

J.

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Re: use-revolution Digest, Vol 6, Issue 142

[Dave Calkins]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 12:50  PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: "Ken Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [ANN] PDF, RTF and TXT versions of Rev 2.1.2 Docs available
To: "'How to use Revolution'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"'Improvements to Revolution'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="US-ASCII"
Your wish is my command...

You can download the docs in PDF, RTF and TXT formats (basically the 
results
of Geoff's fabulous RevRTFer stack):

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm

Scroll down and you should see them...

Enjoy!

Thanks Ken & Geoff,

Dave Calkins

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Split followed by Transpose

[Glen Bojsza]

I am testing the transpose command and can't seem to figure it out

I have a field "test"
1   23  33
2   12  67
My script is:

on MouseUp
put fld "test" into texam
split texam using return and tab
put the keys of texam -- this proves that texam is an array and I get 
the correct keys
put transpose(texam) into fld " results"
end mouseUp

The error that I keep getting is "can't transpose this array"

I have tried a single column of numbers substituting

...
...
split texam using return
...
...
 And I get the same error.
Any other combination or ideas of what I am missing?

thanks

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Re: Documentations Biggest Flaw

[Sarah Reichelt]

Maybe I need to understand the document search mechanism better. Why 
can't I
type in multiple key words to search on? I suppose there is some new 
gem of
information that will help me find things more easily - does anybody 
know
where that is?
Hi Paul,
There are a few techniques to help, although I know how frustrating it 
is to be looking for something when you don't know what it is called 
:-)
I always start in the Transcript dictionary and I have it set to 
"Filter" by default.
Use the Show popup menu above the list to reduce the size of the list 
e.g. if I want to make some changes to fields, I can go to "All 
properties -> Field" which immediately reduces the number of entries in 
the list from 1714 to 172 (Rev 2.1.2)
This is almost scannable now, but a few filter tests will help even 
more e.g. color, tab, font.

Now for the really important part - when you actually click to go to a 
dictionary entry *** ALWAYS *** check the See Also menu. As well as 
taking you to related dictionary entries, this will show you related 
articles, general information and cookbook recipes.

Cheers,
Sarah
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.troz.net/Rev/
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Re: OptionKey madness

[Richard Gaskin]

j wrote:

Exhibit B is the set of pre-assigned Function keys in OS X:  F9, F10,
and F11 are for Exposé, and on PowerBooks F1 through F6 have other
pre-assigned behaviors, and F7 toggles Ful Keyboard Access in windows
and dialogs, leaving only two keys (F8 and F12) for reliable use by Mac
developers for user input.
On my TiBook, the keys marked F1 through F7 have assigned functions 
(screen brightness, volume, number lock, display mirroring), but these 
are not technically the fkey uses.  To use fkeys 1 through 7, I hold 
down the "fn" key, which is in the lower left corner next to "ctrl."
I'm not going to ask my customers to hold down three keys for the tasks 
these will be used for.

I appreciate the input, but I'm pretty much sold on Command keys only 
for now.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Split followed by Transpose

[Dar Scott]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 07:27 PM, Glen Bojsza wrote:

I am testing the transpose command and can't seem to figure it out

I have a field "test"
1   23  33
2   12  67
1,1   23
1,2   33
2,1   12
2,2   67
How does it work for that?

You might want to consider making a function that takes something like 
this

23   33
12   67
or this

[ 23 33 ; 12 67 ]

(as in MatLab, I think),

or this

[ 23 33
  12 67 ]
And the inverse function, too.

Dar Scott



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Re: Database Experience

[Bruce Robertson]

> FileMaker doesn't seem to understand the concept of record locking when
> multiple users on the internet are trying to access the same record
> at the exact same time.

And you do? MySQL does? I don't think so.

The internet is stateless. If you want to build a custom record locking
solution for web transactions, you can do it and you will face the same
issues in any  system. It only takes a very simple calculation in edit
privileges to accomplish.

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Re: Database Experience

[Andre Garzia]

On Mar 23, 2004, at 12:19 AM, Bruce Robertson wrote:

And you do? MySQL does? I don't think so.

The internet is stateless. If you want to build a custom record locking
solution for web transactions, you can do it and you will face the same
issues in any  system. It only takes a very simple calculation in edit
privileges to accomplish.
uh... I use XML and a little array. when record is accessed, the arrays 
(hum... actually is not an array, it's a queue) is checked, if the 
record is in the arrays, this meaning it's being edited right now, then 
it cannot be accessed, if it's not in the array, then it's unlocked. 
This is done before any DB connection function. It works fine. what do 
you think?

Cheers


--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004  BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: Split followed by Transpose

[Glen Bojsza]

Dar,

I thought that the split command actually would put the data into the 
format that transpose recognizes ...what you have indicated?

Isn't it just as much work to put it into this format as it would be to 
write a function that would transpose the data from the original array?

Sorry for not understanding ( or possibly assuming).

Are there any scripts already done that handle different array 
manipulations?

Thanks for the insight... this saves me going down the wrong path.

Glen

1,1   23
1,2   33
2,1   12
2,2   67


On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 08:53 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 07:27 PM, Glen Bojsza wrote:

I am testing the transpose command and can't seem to figure it out

I have a field "test"
1   23  33
2   12  67
1,1   23
1,2   33
2,1   12
2,2   67
How does it work for that?

You might want to consider making a function that takes something like 
this

23   33
12   67
or this

[ 23 33 ; 12 67 ]

(as in MatLab, I think),

or this

[ 23 33
  12 67 ]
And the inverse function, too.

Dar Scott



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Re: Database Experience

[Brian Yennie]

Worth noting that for a web app, if you are going to lock records then 
those locks must timeout after a while- otherwise someone can leave 
something locked forever, and there is no way for you to detect for 
sure that they are gone.

And you do? MySQL does? I don't think so.

The internet is stateless. If you want to build a custom record 
locking
solution for web transactions, you can do it and you will face the 
same
issues in any  system. It only takes a very simple calculation in edit
privileges to accomplish.
uh... I use XML and a little array. when record is accessed, the 
arrays (hum... actually is not an array, it's a queue) is checked, if 
the record is in the arrays, this meaning it's being edited right now, 
then it cannot be accessed, if it's not in the array, then it's 
unlocked. This is done before any DB connection function. It works 
fine. what do you think?
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Re: Split followed by Transpose

[Mark Brownell]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 07:38  PM, Glen Bojsza wrote:

Are there any scripts already done that handle different array  
manipulations?

Thanks for the insight... this saves me going down the wrong path.


I played around with number keyed arrays that were stored as  
custom-property sets. I didn't comment this example at all. In  
hindsight this was a bad idea being that I made it into an example.  
From the developer-contributions page:
http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/ 
usercontributions.html

Array Manipulation
version: FrogBreath 1.0
Demonstrates array manipulation including arrays stored in  
custom-Properties, append, delete At, delete Last, Count, and Sort.

This might not be what you are looking for. I designed a pull-parser  
that uses a simple kind of XML to store each cell of a table with  
,  tag sets. This gives you the chance to build a pull  
parser database. Perhaps I should just build this thing and put it out  
as an example...

Mark

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Re: Split followed by Transpose

[Brian Yennie]

According to the docs for transpose, you need to have a 2 dimensional 
array.
I believe the mistake you are making is creating a 1 item key with a 2 
item value, rather than a 2 item key with a 1 item value.

Thus Dar's suggestion to make the data
1,2333
2,1267
Except that won't work either, since the keys have to be sequential.
This should:
1,1 33
1,2 67
1,3 44
2,1 58
2,2 12
2,3 34
I would read the page in the transcript reference for transpose- it 
goes into detail that I'm just spitting back here.

HTH
Brian
I have a field "test"
1   23  33
2   12  67
My script is:

on MouseUp
put fld "test" into texam
split texam using return and tab
put the keys of texam -- this proves that texam is an array and I get 
the correct keys
put transpose(texam) into fld " results"
end mouseUp
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Re: Database Experience

[Andre Garzia]

On Mar 23, 2002, at 12:37 AM, Brian Yennie wrote:

Worth noting that for a web app, if you are going to lock records then 
those locks must timeout after a while- otherwise someone can leave 
something locked forever, and there is no way for you to detect for 
sure that they are gone.
yes... I learned that the hard way I remember shouting "WHY THE 
HELL CAN'T I CHANGE MY PREFS RECORDS THIS CODE IS BUGGY!!!"... tesc 
tesc tesc... after one hour struggle with session management routines, 
cookies and the like I thought "Who is removing the records from the 
queue if user disconects..."... I went to the kitchen and opened a 
coke.

There's also another grip, if the DB does not support rollback, you 
might want to store old values in a cache for a while so that you can 
hard code a rollback... yes, this is ugly, but so is any "undo"...

--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: Dan Shafer's Book

[Dan Shafer]

On Mar 16, 2004, at 11:41 PM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

I'd like to just buy Ch 1 also, but unfortunately it is apparently 
only available as a trilogy now with the 2nd and 3rd volumes being 
currently in the works.

I assume you mean Volume 1 and not Chapter 1.

How about letting us buy the Ch 1 PDF on its own again?

That's not too likely to happen. Here's the problem. Economics dictate 
that I make very little on an eBook if I sell it as a standalone 
product. I bundle it with the other  two volumes and membership in my 
online community at RevolutionPros.com at a combined price of $97, 
which is $14 less than the combined three PDFs will cost. Now I have 
enough cash flow to justify my taking the time to write the subsequent 
volumes.

The total installed base of RunRev is so small that even if everyone 
who ever bought a license bought one copy of Volume 1, I'd end up 
making less than I usually get for an advance on a book where I don't 
have to do any of the marketing, support, etc. So I can't see a way to 
make economic sense out of selling one volume at a time.

That said, I am offering all chapters after Vol. 1 singly at an average 
of $5 each. It has occurred to me that I *could* make the chapters of 
Volume 1 available one by one at a similar price point if there were 
sufficient interest in the community.

I'm listening. Sorry I can't accommodate your request but maybe there 
are other ways of doing this. I'm receptive to ideas.

This series of books is as much a labor of love giving back to the Rev 
community as anything else. that said, I'd like to cover my costs and 
some reasonable profit for what amounts to a huge amount of work.

Yours,
Chris
On Mar 16, 2004, at 2:26 PM, Patrick Fleury wrote:
I would like to purchase an electronic copy of Dan Shafer's book but 
I am not sure how to.  (I just want volume 1 to get me started.)  I 
have been unable to figure out how to do this on your web site.  Part 
of the problem is that I can not remember my password for the site.  
If you could give me any help on this, I would appreciate it.

--PatF


Patrick Fleury, Ph. D.Director, Informatics Core
University of Chicago GCRC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (773)-702-0517
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Re: Split followed by Transpose

[Dar Scott]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 08:38 PM, Glen Bojsza wrote:

I thought that the split command actually would put the data into the 
format that transpose recognizes ...what you have indicated?
Sorry about the cryptic response.

Transpose expects a "2D" array, not an array of rows.

The key of the "2D" array is a pair of numbers, like this:  "4,5"

I read this...
I have a field "test"
1   23  33
2   12  67
...as your really wanting this:
put 23 into a[1,1]
put 33 into a[1,2]
put 12 into a[2,1]
put 67 into a[2,2]
That puts the values into a "2D" array.

What you would get if you split the above field, is the same as this:

put 23 & tab & 33 into a[1]
put 12 & tab & 67 into a[2]
Dar Scott

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Re: Split followed by Transpose

[Dar Scott]

On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 08:55 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:

Thus Dar's suggestion to make the data
1,2333
2,1267
Except that won't work either, since the keys have to be sequential.


What I tried to write was this, a 2X2 version of what you wrote:
1,1   23
1,2   33
2,1   12
2,2   67
Did this get garbled?

I was assuming Glen was looking for a 2X2 array, but I see that he 
could be looking for a 3X2 array.

Dar Scott

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Re: Split followed by Transpose

[Brian Yennie]

No, but I'm afraid my eyes did!

You are correct- your 2x2 version works fine.

What I tried to write was this, a 2X2 version of what you wrote:
1,1   23
1,2   33
2,1   12
2,2   67
Did this get garbled?
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[ANN - REVISED] PDF, RTF and TXT version of Rev 2.1.2 Docs Available

[Ken Ray]

It has come to my attention that the RTF and PDF versions of what I've
uploaded to my site had some special characters that looked funny and a
running header that added 3MB to the overall file size of the document!

In any event, a revised version has been reposted to my site. For those that
didn't keep the link, here it is again:

  http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads.htm

Scroll down and you should see them...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


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Re: Database Experience

[Bruce Robertson]

> On Mar 23, 2004, at 12:19 AM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
> 
>> And you do? MySQL does? I don't think so.
>> 
>> The internet is stateless. If you want to build a custom record locking
>> solution for web transactions, you can do it and you will face the same
>> issues in any  system. It only takes a very simple calculation in edit
>> privileges to accomplish.
> 
> uh... I use XML and a little array. when record is accessed, the arrays
> (hum... actually is not an array, it's a queue) is checked, if the
> record is in the arrays, this meaning it's being edited right now, then
> it cannot be accessed, if it's not in the array, then it's unlocked.
> This is done before any DB connection function. It works fine. what do
> you think?

There is nothing that prevents you from using that approach with Filemaker
also if you want to; or you could use the easier native record locking
options.  

I don't quite understand how you lock a record without knowing what record
you're locking. You say you can lock a record or determine its lock status
without a DB connection. How does that work? How do you perform a query
without performing a query?

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[OT] Spelling

[Ken Ray]

Sorry, everyone, but after seeing multiple posts by people (not only on this
list, but elsewhere as well) where certain words are consistently
misspelled, I felt that it was time to make a quick post about those words
in the hope that it would help us all communicate better in the future.

--
  "loose" is the opposite of "tight", as in:
 "This bolt is loose."

  "lose" is the opposite of "win" or "gain", as in: 
 "I didn't mean to lose your phone number."
--
  "your" means "belonging to you"

  "you're" means "you are"
--
  "it's" means "it is"

  "its" means "belonging to it"
--
  An apostrophe usually implies possession (or is used in a contraction),
and is not used for making a singular into a plural, so:

  "television's" = belonging to a television

  "televisions"  = more than one television
--

And note that these things are not confined to programming; one quick drive
through my town where I see signs that say: "Hold your partys here" (for a
karaoke bar), or "We use all cloth shammy's" (for a car wash) has urged me
to make this post. Sorry for being a bit pedantic, and I hope no one takes
offense.

Thanks,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


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Select question

[Doug Lerner]

In an app I'm working on, if I have the select tool chosen and click on a
text field I can move the text field, resize it and delete it. But I can't
select the text inside the text field in order to modify it. What's the
usual way of doing this?

Thanks,

doug

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Re: [OT] Spelling

[Scott Rossi]

On 3/22/04 8:42 PM, "Ken Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Sorry, everyone, but after seeing multiple posts by people (not only on this
> list, but elsewhere as well) where certain words are consistently
> misspelled, I felt that it was time to make a quick post about those words
> in the hope that it would help us all communicate better in the future.

Your got a lotta nerve saying that we's don¹t now anything about speling.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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is within - a syntax bug?

[Doug Lerner]

This results in a syntax error that "what is to the left of within" is not a
point:

  addToStatus "within: " & the mouseLoc is within the rect of the target
into withinCheck


But rewriting it this way works:

  put the mouseLoc is within the rect of the target into withinCheck
  addToStatus "within: " & withinCheck

A compiler bug?

doug

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Re: Closing one stack and opening another

[Stephen King]

Thanks Tom,

Nice and easy, as I thought it would be. I couldn't get my brain around the
fact that the handler reliably continues to completion even though its stack
closes. Had a similar concept problem with transferring control after
cloning!

Cheers
Steve
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:58:53 -0500
> From: Thomas McGrath III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Closing one stack and opening another
> To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> lock screen
> close stack "A"
> open stack "B"
> unlock screen
>
> OR
>
> go stack "B" in window "A"
>
> which is cool if they are the same size windows.
>
> HTH
>
> Tom
>
> On Mar 22, 2004, at 4:15 PM, Stephen King wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Very simple question I suspect, I'm just not sure of the 'best' way to
> > do
> > this.
> >
> > I have a Splash stack (hidden) and various datastacks which I only
> > want open
> > one at a time. What is the best way to close one stack (by a button on
> > a
> > card of that stack) and opening/displaying another stack and
> > trasferring
> > control to that new stack.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Steve
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
>
> Thomas J. McGrath III
> SCS
> 1000 Killarney Dr.
> Pittsburgh, PA 15234
> 412-885-8541
>

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Re: Select question

[Sarah Reichelt]

Use the Contents section of the Inspector, or change back to the Browse 
tool.
Cheers,
Sarah

On 23 Mar 2004, at 3:01 pm, Doug Lerner wrote:

In an app I'm working on, if I have the select tool chosen and click 
on a
text field I can move the text field, resize it and delete it. But I 
can't
select the text inside the text field in order to modify it. What's the
usual way of doing this?

Thanks,

doug

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Re: Database Experience

[Rick Harrison]

And you do?
I don't think you have to be insulting if you want to disagree, or you 
have
anything positive to add.  Why do you think people are starting to not
ask their important questions on this list?  Its a bad trend.

MySQL does? I don't think so.
Someone told me MySQL handled it, I'm open to the suggestion that
the information may be incorrect.  That's why I was asking the question.
Many people have been trying to move away from FileMaker Pro to MySQL
because of these issues and multi-threaded issues.  A decent database
should handle these things without the programmer having to re-invent
with his/her own schemes.
If you want to build a custom record locking
solution for web transactions, you can do it and you will face the same
issues in any  system. It only takes a very simple calculation in edit
privileges to accomplish.
Would you like to be more specific and helpful?  What version of
FileMaker Pro are you referring to?  I'm not using the latest version.
FileMaker Pro needs to convince me with some major web improvements
that it is worth the price to upgrade.  So far I'm unconvinced.
If you have experience with version 7 I'd be interested in hearing 
about it.

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Re: Select question

[Doug Lerner]

I mean in an app. 

doug

On 3/23/04 2:50 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Use the Contents section of the Inspector, or change back to the Browse
> tool.
> Cheers,
> Sarah
> 
> On 23 Mar 2004, at 3:01 pm, Doug Lerner wrote:
> 
>> In an app I'm working on, if I have the select tool chosen and click
>> on a
>> text field I can move the text field, resize it and delete it. But I
>> can't
>> select the text inside the text field in order to modify it. What's the
>> usual way of doing this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> doug
>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: is within - a syntax bug?

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Doug Lerner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This results in a syntax error that "what is to the
> left of within" is not a
> point:
> 
>   addToStatus "within: " & the mouseLoc is within
> the rect of the target
> into withinCheck
> 
> 
> But rewriting it this way works:
> 
>   put the mouseLoc is within the rect of the target
> into withinCheck
>   addToStatus "within: " & withinCheck
> 
> A compiler bug?
> 
> doug
> 

Hi Doug,

I wouldn't call it a compiler bug : the ampersand
(concatenation operator) is stronger thn the 'is
within' function, so the engine interprets your
version as :

  addToStatus ("within: " & the mouseLoc) is within
the rect of the target into withinCheck

which of course creates a problem because now it
doesn't have a point to check with the 'is within'
operator.
To avoid this, simply recode to :

  addToStatus "within: " & (the mouseLoc is within
the rect of the target into withinCheck)

Hope this carified things a bit,

Jan Schenkel.

=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)

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Re: Select question

[Sarah Reichelt]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I'm afraid I can't help because I don't know 
how you can even get to this situation in an app - I thought you could 
only do that sort of thing in the IDE. Presumably if you know how to 
get into edit mode, you can use the same technique for getting out of 
it, so you can enter text.

Cheers,
Sarah
On 23 Mar 2004, at 4:11 pm, Doug Lerner wrote:

I mean in an app.

doug

On 3/23/04 2:50 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Use the Contents section of the Inspector, or change back to the 
Browse
tool.
Cheers,
Sarah

On 23 Mar 2004, at 3:01 pm, Doug Lerner wrote:

In an app I'm working on, if I have the select tool chosen and click
on a
text field I can move the text field, resize it and delete it. But I
can't
select the text inside the text field in order to modify it. What's 
the
usual way of doing this?

Thanks,

doug

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Re: Database Experience

[Brian Yennie]

Someone told me MySQL handled it, I'm open to the suggestion that
the information may be incorrect.  That's why I was asking the 
question.

Many people have been trying to move away from FileMaker Pro to MySQL
because of these issues and multi-threaded issues.  A decent database
should handle these things without the programmer having to re-invent
with his/her own schemes.
I don't believe MySQL has any built-in record locking functionality- 
that's the bad news. The good news is that even if it did, it would be 
about the same amount of work in the simple case.

Suppose you were to write a front-end in Revolution, and had no control 
over the back-end (other than that it was a MySQL server sitting 
somewhere).

All you would need to do would be to create extra fields in your MySQL 
database, something like:

RECORD_LOCKS
lockedBy: yennieb
lockTime: 278236472
Whenever you queried for the record, you could as part of your query 
check whether it is already locked by someone else. I don't know if SQL 
if useful to you at this point, but you would be able to do something 
like:

SELECT * FROM mytable WHERE (recID = 37) AND (lockedBy <> yennieb) AND 
(lockTime >= XXX)

IOW, check to see if the record in question is locked by someone other 
than you, and within the allowable stale time.

Every time someone wanted to edit a record, you would check for an 
existing entry in the table to see if a different user had locked the 
record within a certain amount of time.

If not, create the lock by filling out those fields.

When the user saves changes, remove any locks they have. So long as 
they are actively using your front-end, you can refresh the lock. 
Otherwise it goes stale and someone else can get it. You could also 
quickly release all of the locks for a single user with something like:

UPDATE mytable SET lockedBy = '', lockTime = 0 WHERE lockedBy = 
'yennieb'

There are a few gotchas- for example, what happens if a user locks a 
record, walks away for too long, loses their lock, and _then_ tries to 
save changes. But no built-in database feature solves this for you.

On the other hand, if you were willing to also write a backend in Rev 
(i.e. a CGI or a Rev app that sits on the server), you could solve 
record locking lots of different ways outside of the database, even 
just keep a global variable with locks recorded in it.

Hope this helps- if you take this route with Rev and MySQL, I'm sure 
the list will be able to help with much of this when the needs are more 
specific. Some of it may seem overwhelming if you are seeing SQL for 
the first time, etc- but as a piece of the transition, record locking 
really sounds worse than it (usually) is in practice.

- Brian

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Re: Select question

[Brian Yennie]

Doug,

A few suggestions:

You won't be able to select text with that tool chosen- that's just not 
how the tool works, in the IDE or an app. If you want to edit text, 
you'll need to "choose browse tool" again.

It might also be helpful to note that you can select, move, and drag 
objects by script without ever changing tools. Or you could switch 
tools when the user double-clicks on a field, etc.

HTH

- Brian

On 23 Mar 2004, at 3:01 pm, Doug Lerner wrote:

In an app I'm working on, if I have the select tool chosen and click
on a
text field I can move the text field, resize it and delete it. But I
can't
select the text inside the text field in order to modify it. What's the
usual way of doing this?
Thanks,
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Re: is within - a syntax bug?

[Dar Scott]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 10:28 PM, Doug Lerner wrote:

This results in a syntax error that "what is to the left of within" is 
not a
point:

  addToStatus "within: " & the mouseLoc is within the rect of the 
target
into withinCheck
It looks like your mail may have wrapped this just to point out what is 
wrong.  It looks to me that you left in "into withinCheck" in your copy 
and paste.

Dar Scott

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Re: Database Experience

[Bruce Robertson]

>> And you do?
> 
> I don't think you have to be insulting if you want to disagree, or you
> have anything positive to add.  Why do you think people are starting
> to not ask their important questions on this list?  Its a bad trend.

Is it a better trend to not understand a product or technology and yet claim
that it is inadequate? You didn't ask a question. You made a proclmation.
You stated that Filemaker can't do something that has been a prominent part
of their advertised feature set for several years.

> Many people have been trying to move away from FileMaker Pro to MySQL
> because of these issues and multi-threaded issues.  A decent database
> should handle these things without the programmer having to re-invent
> with his/her own schemes.

Various hand-crafted MySQL record locking schemes are discussed in most
MySQL books.

>> If you want to build a custom record locking
>> solution for web transactions, you can do it and you will face the same
>> issues in any  system. It only takes a very simple calculation in edit
>> privileges to accomplish.
> 
> Would you like to be more specific and helpful?  What version of
> FileMaker Pro are you referring to?

Record-level create, edit, browse, and delete features were introduced with
Filemaker 5.5. I believe that was in 2001. These features are controlled by
a calculation; and that calculation can be pretty much anything you want.

> I'm not using the latest version.
> FileMaker Pro needs to convince me with some major web improvements
> that it is worth the price to upgrade.  So far I'm unconvinced.
> If you have experience with version 7 I'd be interested in hearing
> about it.

Filemaker 7 is an approximately equivalent technical change to the switch
from MacOS 9 to OS X. This a massive technology change, and even people who
participated in the beta program have concluded that will probably take a
year before anybody fully understands all the power we've been given. I'm
pretty good with Filemaker, and I participate in several of the Filemaker
forums, and even the most highly skilled people are saying holy , what
have we got here!

High performance multithreaded server. 8TB max file size. 2GB  max content
in a single text field of a single record. BLOB support. ODBC/JDBC SQL
add/drop/create etc support. Multiple tables per file - max 1 million, as a
matter of fact. Industrial strength security. Robust instant web publishing.
Much improved relational model including multiple field pairs and different
types of join operators: equal, not equal, GT, LT, etc. $150 updgrade from
any previous version. Data/interface separation if you want to build that
way. It is still a product clearly in the FileMaker line and of course some
people will find things they don't like and will still elect to use other
products. But it's a whole new ball game, and I don't think anybody really
understands the implications yet.

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Re: is within - a syntax bug?

[Dar Scott]

On Tuesday, March 23, 2004, at 12:03 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

  addToStatus "within: " & the mouseLoc is within the rect of the 
target
into withinCheck
It looks like your mail may have wrapped this just to point out what 
is wrong.  It looks to me that you left in "into withinCheck" in your 
copy and paste.
Oh, yeah, and the parentheses thing, too.  -- dar

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Re: Select question

[HyperChris]

So you are allowing your user to resize the field by switching to the Select 
tool but yet you want the text editing behavior of the Browse tool when the 
user clicks in the field? H ... usually when folks want the user to have 
control over field sizing, they stay in the browse mode and use mouse and click 
controls to trigger the drag sizing of the field. I tried it your way, though, 
and it works! I just created mouseEnter and mouseLeave handlers to switch 
between the tools. The only odd part was being able to sneak up on a text field 
and select it for moving or sizing before it switched me to browse for editing. 
I did get that to work, though, by increasing the border width and then 
modifiying the mouse traps to allow for it's thickness before making the switch.

Is that what you meant ?

In a message dated 3/22/04 10:11:42 PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I mean in an app.
> 
> On 3/23/04 2:50 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Use the Contents section of the Inspector, or change back to the Browse
> > tool.
> >
> > On 23 Mar 2004, at 3:01 pm, Doug Lerner wrote:
> >> In an app I'm working on, if I have the select tool chosen and click
> >> on a
> >> text field I can move the text field, resize it and delete it. But I
> >> can't
> >> select the text inside the text field in order to modify it. What's the
> >> usual way of doing this?
> 

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Re: Split followed by Transpose

[Dar Scott]

On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 09:14 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

I read this...
I have a field "test"
1  23  33
2  12  67
...as your really wanting this:
put 23 into a[1,1]
put 33 into a[1,2]
put 12 into a[2,1]
put 67 into a[2,2]
This is a crumby sentence, but isn't "your" correct here?

Dar Scott

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Re: [OT] Spelling

[William T. Simmons]

:-) !!
Tommy Simmons
Employment Law Advisory Network
www.employmentlawadvisors.com

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'How to use Revolution'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"'Improvements to Revolution'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:42 PM
Subject: [OT] Spelling


> Sorry, everyone, but after seeing multiple posts by people (not only on
this
> list, but elsewhere as well) where certain words are consistently
> misspelled, I felt that it was time to make a quick post about those words
> in the hope that it would help us all communicate better in the future.
>
> --
>   "loose" is the opposite of "tight", as in:
>  "This bolt is loose."
>
>   "lose" is the opposite of "win" or "gain", as in:
>  "I didn't mean to lose your phone number."
> --
>   "your" means "belonging to you"
>
>   "you're" means "you are"
> --
>   "it's" means "it is"
>
>   "its" means "belonging to it"
> --
>   An apostrophe usually implies possession (or is used in a contraction),
> and is not used for making a singular into a plural, so:
>
>   "television's" = belonging to a television
>
>   "televisions"  = more than one television
> --
>
> And note that these things are not confined to programming; one quick
drive
> through my town where I see signs that say: "Hold your partys here" (for a
> karaoke bar), or "We use all cloth shammy's" (for a car wash) has urged me
> to make this post. Sorry for being a bit pedantic, and I hope no one takes
> offense.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Ray
> Sons of Thunder Software
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


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