Re: Making Revolution faster with really big arrays

[Stephen Barncard]

MySQL can do math on columns like you want. Very Fast. No loops in transcript.
Check out the GROUP BY (Aggregate) Functions.
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/group-by-functions.html

At 8:06 PM -0400 4/26/05, Dennis Brown wrote:

Can anyone think of another way to do this that would be faster (for 
accessing parallel arrays, not the trivial adding them together 
operation I am doing here).  Of course the times are for my machine 
and will vary on yours, but the
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Re: Making Revolution faster with really big arrays

[Dennis Brown]

On Apr 14, 2005, at 10:09 AM, Dennis Brown wrote:
Dick,
Thanks for your various tips and help online and offline.  I need to 
take a week to digest and incorporate the ideas into a real piece of 
code that I hope will fly like the wind --then I will share my code 
and a data generator for you and everyone else to see and rip to 
shreds ;-)

Thanks again,
Dennis

I have been studying methods of making things go faster with the 
numeric processing of big arrays during the last couple of weeks (while 
I have been writing a lot of actually useful processing scripts).  
However, I thought I should provide some simplified scripts to make it 
easier to separate out the essential factors that I have learned so 
far.

The first thing I have found is that accessing the array elements with 
the repeat for each is very fast, but does not allow for accessing more 
than one array at a time.  This is a shame and should be corrected by 
adding or modifying some Transcript operators.

The second thing I have found is that if you want to do just a few 
mathematical operations, the times really start adding up quickly.  Do 
a few adds, rounds, etc. and accessing the data is not the worst of the 
bottlenecks.  I used to have a rule of thumb that a P code compiler 
runs 16 times slower than a machine code compiler, and an interpreter 
was 256 times as slow for number crunching.  Transcript seems to be 128 
times as slow.  Not as optimized as I would have hoped for.  All my 
large array stuff runs about 4 times slower than I had hoped, but it is 
within the realm that I can make it work for me --with a bit of doing 
things in more complicated ways than I would like and taking a lot more 
time with work arounds.

Here are the scripts I came up with for adding each element of a 1000 
line by 1000 item text array to each other.  I know there are much 
faster ways of doing this particular operation, but I wanted to use it 
as a simplified example of accessing parallel elements in two (or more) 
arrays at the same time to see how fast different methods would be.

Method1: 1.7 s =1x
This is how fast Rev would be if it had the proper Transcript support 
for doing this along the lines of a repeat for each.
Method2a: 10.8 s = 6.35x
This is using a repeat for each on one array and a character pointer on 
the other array
Method2b: 18 s =10.6x
This is using a repeat for each on one array and simulating the code 
for new Transcript functions/commands for sequential access
Method3:  7.9 s =4.6x
This is using a repeat for each on one array and the split command to 
access the other array as an indexed array
Method4: 12.6 s =7.4x
This is using the split command on both arrays and accessing each as an 
indexed array

Can anyone think of another way to do this that would be faster (for 
accessing parallel arrays, not the trivial adding them together 
operation I am doing here).  Of course the times are for my machine and 
will vary on yours, but the time relative to Method1 should be noted.  
If you can figure out how to make my examples run faster, I will also 
learn more about this problem.

Thanks,
Dennis
THE SCRIPT:
global gTestArrayX,gTestArrayY
--put the following lines into the menu items of a menu button
Init
Method1
Method2a
Method2b
Method3
Method4
--put the following into the script of the button
on menuPick x
  put the long seconds into s
  send x to me
  put space & (the long seconds -s) after msg
end menuPick
on Init --create two test string arrays 1000x1000 numbers
  put empty into gTestArrayX
  put empty into gTestArrayY
  repeat with i=1 to 1000
repeat with j=1 to 1000
  put j&comma after gTestArrayX
end repeat
put cr into last char of gTestArrayX
  end repeat
  put gTestArrayX into gTestArrayY
  put "Init:"
end Init
on Method1 --just repeat for each on the two arrays as best case 
reference timing (can't add them directly this way)
  put 0 into total
  repeat for each line n in gTestArrayX
repeat for each item x in n
  add x to total
end repeat
  end repeat
  repeat for each line n in gTestArrayY
repeat for each item x in n
  add x to total
end repeat
  end repeat
  put total&&"Reference(Method1):"
end Method1

on Method2a --Add lines in two text arrays using repeat for each and 
sequential processing method
  put 0 into total
  put 1 into i --character index into gTestArrayY
  repeat for each line n in gTestArrayX
repeat for each item x in n
  --
  put empty into itemY
  repeat forever --get next item in gTestArrayY
get char i of gTestArrayY
add 1 to i
if (it=comma)or(it=cr)or(it=empty) then exit repeat
put it after itemY
  end repeat
  --
  add itemY+x to total
end repeat
  end repeat
  put total&&"Sequential(Method2):"
end Method2a

on Method2b --Add lines in two text arrays using repeat for each and 
simulated Rev sequential functions
  put 0 into total
  put 1 into i --character line index into gTestArrayY
  repeat for e

Recovery of a corrupted stack

[Mario Leonti]

Hi Dave,
thanks for your offer to help directly.
Would it be ok if I sent you the offending stack by attachment?
I really cannot make any sense of it.
If I try to open the stack in Rev it simply says it's not a stack.
The funny thing is I recovered a .sit with the same file inside. 
Stuffit uncompresses it ok and the stack is still not opened/recognized 
by Revolution.
I spent a month developing this sucker and I am really keen to recover 
anything I can from it.
Thanks once more
Mario
PS Thanks to all others that offered advise.

WordPowerphone:	+64 4 293 4774
Software Developers		email:	 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Computer 
Consultants		URL:	http://members.fortunecity.com/wordpower1/
Film/Audio/Video/DVD SpecialistssnailMail:	P.O. Box 160, Waikanae, 
New Zealand

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OT: text editors? (was Re: click-words)

[Nicolas Cueto]

Speaking of "non-breaking spaces" and other characters that just ain't on my
(Bkeyboard, does any one have recommendations for Windows text editors that
(Ballow non-standard characters such as these to be directly inputted and even
(Bdisplayable on-screen?
(B
(BAnd I just got to add a note of thanks to Eric and Stephen for raising this
(Btopic. The "non-breaking space" helps solve a long-time problem, namely, how
(Bto link multi-word items in a manner that's transparent to the user but not
(Bto Rev functions such as clickText.
(B
(B--
(BNicolas Cueto
(B
(B___
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RE: greater than

[Chris Sheffield]

Try removing the word "is".  Just use ">".  :-)

Chris Sheffield
Read Naturally
The Fluency Company
www.readnaturally.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas McGrath
III
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 3:45 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: greater than

Hello to all,


I put 3 into gSeqLength in an openCard handler:

  put 3 into gSeqLength

Then I want to do stuff in a switch statement based on gSeqNum, but not 
more than 3 if gSeqLength = 3, or 4 if 4 ,etc.
Anyway, the statement " if gSeqLength is > 3 then " generates a double 
binary error.
Now I know that gSeqLength is 3.

Does anyone know what I am doing wrong here. (I need gSeqNum as my 
switch and not gSeqLength)
I tried:
if gSeqLength is > 3 then
if gSeqLength is greater than 3 then
if gSeqlength is more than 3 then
if (gSeqLength is > 3) then
if gSeqLength is > "3" then
etc.

.switch gSeqNum 
case 1 -- then go up one in gSeqNum
-- do real important stuff here
  put 2 into gSeqNum
 break
case 2
-- do different stuff here
-- (if gSeqLength is more than 3 then I don't want to make
gSeqNum a 
three since I have 0,1,2 already)
if gSeqLength is more than "3" then
 put 3 into gSeqNum
 end if
 break
case 3
if gSeqLength is > 4 then
 put 4 into gSeqNum
end if
 break
...switch

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.5


Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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greater than

[Thomas McGrath III]

Hello to all,
I put 3 into gSeqLength in an openCard handler:
 put 3 into gSeqLength
Then I want to do stuff in a switch statement based on gSeqNum, but not 
more than 3 if gSeqLength = 3, or 4 if 4 ,etc.
Anyway, the statement " if gSeqLength is > 3 then " generates a double 
binary error.
Now I know that gSeqLength is 3.

Does anyone know what I am doing wrong here. (I need gSeqNum as my 
switch and not gSeqLength)
I tried:
if gSeqLength is > 3 then
if gSeqLength is greater than 3 then
if gSeqlength is more than 3 then
if (gSeqLength is > 3) then
if gSeqLength is > "3" then
etc.

.switch gSeqNum 
	case 1 -- then go up one in gSeqNum
		-- do real important stuff here
	  put 2 into gSeqNum
break
	case 2
		-- do different stuff here
		-- (if gSeqLength is more than 3 then I don't want to make gSeqNum a 
three since I have 0,1,2 already)
	if gSeqLength is more than "3" then
 		 put 3 into gSeqNum
   		 end if
break
 	case 3
	if gSeqLength is > 4 then
 		 put 4 into gSeqNum
	end if
break
...switch

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.5

Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [ANN] ChatRev with Kevin Miller

[Dan Shafer]

I got in just fine last night and happened to find Bjornke himself in 
the chat room. We had a nice conversation.

On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:02 AM, sims wrote:
I had downloaded the latest 1.3 and it had the right port number. I 
didn't get any errors, it just wouldn't connect. It just sort of sat 
there.
Did you click the middle btn which reads "Chat"?
sims
~~
Dan Shafer, Co-Chair
RevConWest '05
June 17-18, 2005, Monterey, California
http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit/RevConWest
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Re: click-words

[Stephen Barncard]

That would be a 'non-breaking' space, right? Excellent. Thanks.
At 9:53 PM +0200 4/26/05, Eric Chatonet wrote:
Hi Stephen,
You could use numToChar(202) (option space with 
Mac OS) which is the "indivisible space" (I 
don't know if it is the right word :-)

Le 26 avr. 05, à 21:29, Stephen Barncard a écrit :
I'm working with a horizontal field with 
tab-delimited text in columns serving as column 
headings fed from an SQL database. I want to 
"word click" those headers to select the sort.
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Re: click-words

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Stephen,
You could use numToChar(202) (option space with Mac OS) which is the 
"indivisible space" (I don't know if it is the right word :-)

Le 26 avr. 05, à 21:29, Stephen Barncard a écrit :
I'm working with a horizontal field with tab-delimited text in columns 
serving as column headings fed from an SQL database. I want to "word 
click" those headers to select the sort.

However when importing data and creating the database (from a 
hypercard card-background data set) that I had to do something with 
field names with spaces. To keep them as close to the original names 
as possible, I used the underscore character "_" in place of a space.

Now I'm at the point where  "Field_With_Underscores" in a tab delim 
field header won't word-click properly; one gets  "Field" only with 
the click.

So, is there a character, visible or invisible, that will stand in 
place of a space for word-click so I get the whole phrase? Otherwise I 
have to start over with the data capture, and rename hard coded names.
Amicalement,
Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software
For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email   [EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone   33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile  33 (0)6 20 74 50 86

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RE: Draw over existing objects (and can'tselect script for Richard!!)

[MisterX]

for bz 624, coz i think it's a good cause! [Sorry if i go off the subject.
ed.]

Many things where suggested for graphic handling in runrev to Scott and
Kevin but apparently neither has used or use Freehand... ;)

Best drawing interface in a clever GUI i've ever seen! Some prefer
illustrator, but FH was a natural thing to use for MacDraw upgradees. It was
so intuitive that i learned how to split a circle in a quadrant in a dream -
ungroup... Made the bezier points ungrouped to reveal the curves... I
searched for a week for that one... Just a dream interface i miss in
RunRev... (Common Alejandro... ;)

And with the many things suggested before including the recent cantselect
control property, I hope to bring that along in TAOO... 

Im inclined to make things more freehand like anyway because it's just
natural to do. I got the undo and proportional things started (takes lot of
time alone scripting/testing it all ;)... So i might as well as laydown the
next step in layer control in editing...

on selectedobjectchanged
 put the selobjs into objlist
  repeat for each line l in objlist
if the xos["cantselect"] of l is not true then
  put l & cr into selectlist
end if
  end repeat
  lock messages -- avoid 1 infinite loop - off after handler ,;]
  select the selectlist
  pass selectedobjectchanged
end selectedobjectchanged

-- you can replace xos with MagicControlEditMode and do more things in
between those lines like force selections, update the magic control editor
palette, etc...

Along with the ResizeN2O palette, an additional helper palette/drawer B-) to
make this group/layer selectable and the obvious xos["locked"] which
prevents any mods to a control... 

--

Next in line is how to make polygon points and corner points in the stack
editeable like freehand - as a block or set of points. In layers and
groups... Not too hard but tedious scripting... Just offset from the rect of
the poligons' vertices a few square rect non-opaque controls (8X8) in an
overlay group which is easily controled as ResizeN2O does... Nothing rev
cant handle.

All controls have a rect, proportional resizing will need a bit more
thinking for matrices of polygons... in 3D anyone? ;)

> This introduces the other related issue: the ability to create objects
interactively in a group.  
> Currently the only way to do this is to set the editbg to true 

(and loose some scripts on the way if you're not careful - also stop the
stack script card access too), 

> but in this scenario of a multi-pane drawing window that would be
unacceptable, as it would hide the drawing pane (ugh).

I had this problem in ClipperX couple of years ago. And Richard's bugz 623-4
are dated 2003 and i've told countless
times how the group editing is a pain... But the solution was quite simple.
Make your own tools palette that takes the selobj into account to create
"in" or along the selobj the control you choose... This would create your
prefered control type (and style) right into the selobj from a palette's
menu (bugzilla lurks here though) - peanuts features wise though! It's
possible to do since PropsN2O had anyone suggested it before! ;) This is a
nice "behavior" feature!!!

Why can't we still right click multiple objects? 

[And woah: while testing if the cursor disappeared as in MetaCard while
right-clicking controls, I discovered that you can shift-click "multiple"
objects - Select 2 objects with the markee, shift-right-click either object
twice and a third and a fourth... Cool! And that was the 3rd hour edit cut
time before sending the mail ;)]

>Better would be that if a group has its tool set to pointer, objected
created within its rect are 
> created as a member if the group.

hard to do... if the group is behind another control or a control is behind
the non-opaque group catches
the event before the card... Note: the default mouseup handler that comes
when you edit the script of a control can leave some unwanted code here that
intercepts card messages if you save carelessly... Not a problem if
frontscripted though...

Im working on this via a new type of palette (better than nitrous ;)

At first i thought I'd make a quick button approach like the revtools
palette or SuperPaint's for that
matter. But then, I remembered the many trips to the revpropertypalette
there after... So im integrating a menu to create styled controls (and a
style browser) or make them switch styles (btn to tab or menu for
example...). And RPP is just a waste of time here when you can extend this
easily with a browser or style-list palette (FH experience ;). I released a
control style editor/setter in PropsN2O and it was already a step ahead, now
comes the archers into battle ;)

Now, to the matter of the mail... 

> Once RR completes BZ items #623 and #624 whole new worlds 
> open up, at least as easily as accomplishing the same things 
> in SuperCard.

Im thinking about it as you see. I found the supercard app/design modes too
limiting for the kind of work i did and coul

click-words

[Stephen Barncard]

I'm working with a horizontal field with tab-delimited text in 
columns serving as column headings fed from an SQL database. I want 
to "word click" those headers to select the sort.

However when importing data and creating the database (from a 
hypercard card-background data set) that I had to do something with 
field names with spaces. To keep them as close to the original names 
as possible, I used the underscore character "_" in place of a space.

Now I'm at the point where  "Field_With_Underscores" in a tab delim 
field header won't word-click properly; one gets  "Field" only with 
the click.

So, is there a character, visible or invisible, that will stand in 
place of a space for word-click so I get the whole phrase? Otherwise 
I have to start over with the data capture, and rename hard coded 
names.

thanks
stephen barncard
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Re: Image Library question

[Varen Swaab]

Thanks everyone for your help. Thanks to your suggestions I got this problem
licked!

Var


On 4/25/05 11:54 PM, "Sarah Reichelt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Thanks for the info but I'm not sure what to do from here. You say to
>> set the image IDs above 1 billion but how do I do that? I'm importing
>> a folder full of images, I'm not even sure how to do that with one
>> image.
> Import all your images and then make a button with this script:
> 
> on mouseUp
>repeat with x = 1 to the number of images
>  set the ID of image x to 5 + x
>end repeat
> end mouseUp
> 
> You may need to alter it so that it gets to all your images, depending
> on where they are, but you should get the idea.
>> 
>> I admit to be a little dismayed and discouraged that this problem and
>> I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed yet. (hek, it's not even a
>> "confirmed" bug in the Bug Database. This has become a big issue for
>> me as now all my images are messed up and I have no confidence in the
>> image management system of RR.
>> 
>> I may now need to completely rebuild my stack from scratch to fix this
>> problem and it will cost me a lot of time and effort.
> Once you have re-allocated unique IDs, you won't have any further
> problems with images and you won;t have to re-build your stack or even
> re-import the images.
> 
> HTH,
> Sarah
> 
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Re: OT: 10.4 "Automator" = Applescript?

[Richard Gaskin]

Howard Bornstein wrote:
This is from an email correspondence I had with the Engineering Manager of
Automator at Apple in September of 2004:
-
There have been some discussions about the various ways to interact with
Applescript on the Revolution listserv. Since Automator is a high-level
interface for Applescript, I wanted to find out if the applescript it 
generates
is actually available? That is, is the actual applescript code viewable and
accessible?

This is inaccurate.  Automator could be described as a high-level 
interface for scripting or automation, but it's not tied to AppleScript.

Automator does not generate an AppleScript to represent the entire 
workflow. Each action is a separate bundle executed independently by 
the Automator engine.

Is the actual applescript code viewable and accessible?
An individual action may be backed by an AppleScript (many use no 
AppleScript at all), but the way we are planning to ship them, a 
customer wouldn't have access to the script.  It is a compiled script 
with the script source removed.
This would allow a script-savvy application to execute the script, 
but not view it, so it would be accessible, but not viewable.  But 
without the surrounding infrastructure of the action bundle, the 
script alone might not help you too much.  You'd have to reimplement 
what's in the surrounding bundle.

Since Revolution can execute applescript directly, it seems that the 
combination
of Revolution and Automator could be very powerful. Build inter-application
processes with Automator and include these in a more robust Revolution
application.

This is doable, but it has little to do with AppleScript.  Revolution 
would need to learn how to load and execute action bundles, which is 
easy to do using Cocoa.
Thanks for the clarification, Howard.
If they're not using compiled AppleScript for these "action bundles", it 
looks like yet another OS X-only API to support.  Too bad, as making 
AppleScript dictionaries is already well adopted.

On the bright side, with their increased adoption for OS X it probably 
has as much as 1.8% of the global desktop market by now.  For Tiger we 
may see a whopping 1.6% adoption in less than a year -- woo hoo!  ;)

When will the industry grow up to create a universal 
platform-independent application interoperability standard?

Maybe that'll happen the day after the various Linux window managers get 
together and create a common standard mechanism for app installation 
essentials (icon, Start menu shortcuts, file associations).

Hey, I can dream can't I? :)
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
 Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
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Re: OT: 10.4 "Automator" = Applescript?

[Howard Bornstein]

This is from an email correspondence I had with the Engineering Manager of
Automator at Apple in September of 2004:
-
There have been some discussions about the various ways to interact with
Applescript on the Revolution listserv. Since Automator is a high-level
interface for Applescript, I wanted to find out if the applescript it 
generates
is actually available? That is, is the actual applescript code viewable and
accessible?

This is inaccurate.  Automator could be described as a high-level 
interface for scripting or automation, but it's not tied to 
AppleScript.

Automator does not generate an AppleScript to represent the entire 
workflow. Each action is a separate bundle executed independently by 
the Automator engine.
Is the actual applescript code viewable and accessible?
An individual action may be backed by an AppleScript (many use no 
AppleScript at all), but the way we are planning to ship them, a 
customer wouldn't have access to the script.  It is a compiled 
script with the script source removed.
This would allow a script-savvy application to execute the script, 
but not view it, so it would be accessible, but not viewable.  But 
without the surrounding infrastructure of the action bundle, the 
script alone might not help you too much.  You'd have to reimplement 
what's in the surrounding bundle.
Since Revolution can execute applescript directly, it seems that the 
combination
of Revolution and Automator could be very powerful. Build inter-application
processes with Automator and include these in a more robust Revolution
application.

This is doable, but it has little to do with AppleScript.  
Revolution would need to learn how to load and execute action 
bundles, which is easy to do using Cocoa.
---
Regards,
Howard Bornstein

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Re: To MySQL or Not SQL

[Stephen Barncard]

I'd get a copy of the SQL Pocket Guide, via Oreilly press.
They might even list out the differences at the  www.oreilly.com site.
However, to answer the question, I feel MySQL is very adequate, even 
robust, for most of the Rev applications I see discussed here. And 
with the aforementioned libraries, fairly simple, almost fun to 
implement. Having not one but two competing local SQL server 
products, Rev rocks again.

Not having to create my own data storage and retrieval scheme is 
wonderful and I can move on to 'business logic' and interface and 
getting the app out the door.

At 9:49 AM -0300 4/26/05, Jim Carwardine wrote:
What about the differences between MySQL and MSSQL.  The proponents of MSSQL
are adamant that it is far better.  Is it really?  Of course, it's not
x-platform, which is a mark against it in my books... Jim
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cut & paste error

[Paul Salyers]

Dear Rev Programmer
This may be already discussed, but if so I missed it, so please help.
when I copy text and try to paste into a text field in a program it will 
not paste, I can copy using

  paste
if the clipboard is "text" then paste
Thats what I found from Rev help.
is it correct?
Paul Salyers
PS1 - Senior Rep.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Http://ps1.SoftSeven.org  

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RE: another multi-user "solution"?

[MisterX]

Rob,

i dont disagree... But it should be visible to the browsing or searching
user.
If he wants to edit it, then a query should be done to see if possible
or delay+update+allow... 

cheers
X

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Rob Cozens
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 16:30
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: RE: another multi-user "solution"?
> 
> Xavier, et al:
> 
> 
> >In a server-client - the client doesn't touch the database. 
> Only sends 
> >updates to the server to queue up changes. This way, you 
> have no locks, 
> >no problems. Everyone accesses it.
> 
> A server-client system eliminates the potential for data 
> collision; but you still need record locking so one user can 
> prevent others from changing the record she is currently 
> working on while she is working on it.
> 
> Rob Cozens CCW
> Serendipity Software Company
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
>   Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
>   from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 
> 
> ___
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> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

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OT: 10.4 "Automator" = Applescript?

[Kurt Kaufman]

RG wrote:
"...From the session I attended at WWDC last year on Automator, it appears
to be merely a point-and-click way to write AppleScript, just like
interface for making scripts that you can use with Flash in leiu of
directly typing, or the point-and-click scripting found in FileMaker Pro
for years..."
Perhaps I've mentioned this before, but nothing was so easy to use as Mac 
System 6's MacroMaker.
Just start it up, go through whatever process is required, save the Macro, 
and you're done.  It might not have been very elegant visually (everything 
including Menu pulls and button clicks was visible when running the macros, 
and it sort of reminded me of early film comic slapstick), but it seemed 
always to work no matter what the application.  As someome who has slugged 
through Applescript GUI scripting, I miss a tool so simple and yet so 
effective. THAT'S the way a macro tool "for the rest of us" should operate!

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Re: Draw over existing objects

[Richard Gaskin]

MisterX wrote:
Frank

Maybe I'm just missing something here, but that stack doesn't 
seem relevant.

set the tool to "graphic"
set the style of the templateGraphic to "rectangle"

you're not obliged to be in drawing mode... You can simulate it with a 
cursor and a moving/resizing rect or graphic (with a marquee pattern).
I would encourage you to review the discussion logged with these two 
feature requests:



Yes, one can simulate a lot of things, but it won't have the simplicity 
or performance of using the behaviors built into the engine with the 
pointer tool.  Try it and you'll see.

Making a simple MacDraw-like app is a lt of work in Rev 
today, but could be as simple as doing so in SuperCard, with greater 
flexibility, if those two requests were acted on.

One of the most inspiring things I've ever worked with was the old 
SampleDraw app that shipped with SuperCard.  A simple MacDraw-like app, 
it had very little code and served as an excellent example of making an 
app with its own documents.  Most of its behaviors were simply built 
into the engine with the pointer tool, something that at that time was 
unique among xTalks.

Rev's engine already provides some 90% of the core behaviors needed for 
simple drawing apps.  Unfortunately the remaining 10% is also essential 
if the existing 90% is to be useful in making such apps.

Once RR completes BZ items #623 and #624 whole new worlds open up, at 
least as easily as accomplishing the same things in SuperCard.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
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Re: Some kind of incompatibility issue

[James Richards]

Hmm!  Of all the 10.3 updates, 10.3.9 is the only one to have given me 
problems, and this seems true for quite a few others (as you are 
probably aware).  For me, fixing permissions with Disk Utility and 
using MacJanitor sorted things out but I felt like the motorist at a 
break down who has just had it pointed out that the fuel gauge is empty 
- so I'm probably telling you stuff you already know.

Regards
James
--
James J Richards
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063
On 26 Apr, 2005, at 05:34:07 -0400, Richard Miller wrote:
Ran into an interesting little bug.
Discovered there is an incompatibility between OS 10.3.9 (the most
recent OSX update), RR's Quicktime video capture functions, and our
USB-based touch screen drivers. Enabling the video grabber functions
disables our touch screen. Switching back to 10.3.8 eliminates the
problem. Tried this on several computers to verify it is strictly tied
to 10.3.9.
Apple has done something that is interacting with Rev code in a less
than positive manner. Good chance it'll extend to Tiger. No idea what's
going on.
Richard Miller
Imprinter Technologies
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Re: Draw over existing objects

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:19 AM, MisterX wrote:
you're not obliged to be in drawing mode... You can simulate it with a
cursor and a moving/resizing rect or graphic (with a marquee pattern).
Except that I want to support nearly all of the graphics shapes -- 
rects, roundRects, ovals, curves, etc. -- and this would be 
substantially more work, possibly negating the value of doing this at 
all.

Then you select what falls in the "selection" by intersection or
inclusion... Im not sure i'd use
a group rather than a simple rect graphic (simpler)...
Except that the group does the work of handling scrolling for you.  The 
group fills virtually the entire window (except where the toolbar is) 
- -- so there would be no value in using a rect.

The group is not marked as opaque, currently has no objects
within it (it is an empty group), is set to cantSelect, has
both scrollbars, is visible, and covers all but a small part
of the window, where I am dragging a palette along with the
window (as a toolbar -- not a perfect solution, of course,
but the best I've come up with so far given Rev's feature set
in terms of the drawing tools).
im lost here... What does the group do? Are you supposed to scroll
when dragging beyond the edge?
Not necessarily (though that's not a particularly bad idea); I'm 
creating a custom report layout editor to be included with a commercial 
software product, and would like to be able to scroll larger report 
layouts rather than splitting them into separate windows.  I am now 
realizing various issues with my current implementation (which uses 
separate windows for each section -- this isn't the problem I'm trying 
to solve, but I'd like to fix it anyway), and in considering starting 
over, I'd like to get this done right this time, including a scrolling, 
resizing window representing the report layout.  I want it to act like 
a drawing program, to make life a little easier for the end users.

And looking at the reports product which has been brought up on this 
list previously:

1. I want to distribute the editor with the product, which would 
seemingly require a royalty fee (or at least an expensive custom 
version purchase), which I'm trying to avoid.

2. The product will gather information from a database, and I want the 
layouts stored on the database server itself, rather than files on a 
disk.

3. The editor brought up on the list allows use of Rev functions, etc. 
in fields, and I don't want to risk users picking up on the functions, 
etc. which I have included in the (rather large, complex) product and 
misusing them.

4. I'd like the editor to be a separate program, so that I can have it 
shared between several products in a series.  Information about the 
various types of reports which layouts can be generated for should also 
be gathered from information which an installer will populate the 
database with.  This includes a list of available sections, fields, 
etc. for any given report (and there will be a different set of 
sections possible with different types of reports).

I could go on, but I think you get the idea by now.  The editor is 
somewhat specialized, but I want it to look a bit more professional 
than a too-highly specialized tool.

Of course, dragging the palette window around to make a toolbar isn't 
particularly professional-looking, either...

Please Rev, let us specify a different tool for a single group placed 
on a card!  Please...

Or at least let us scroll entire windows, rather than just groups: I 
could stand to use a floating palette if that helps...

- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCblmX7aqtWrR9cZoRAgoCAJ9Ja0jsZrK8nv2kxokc9cNH4kMj5wCfZf6m
ndKQLd3k0Lu2lXeyiiTOZD0=
=k0sp
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [ANN] ChatRev with Kevin Miller

[sims]

I had downloaded the latest 1.3 and it had the right port number. I 
didn't get any errors, it just wouldn't connect. It just sort of sat 
there.
Did you click the middle btn which reads "Chat"?
sims
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Re: Simulating 'drawer' behaviour on Windows

[Richard Gaskin]

Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
Hmm... I think M$ could stand to hire more capable web designers, as 
their web site is a disaster (particularly the developer sections).
Agreed. MSDN's search facility would benefit from being thrown away in 
favor of Google's.

Where can I find the Windows HIG?  I was starting to wonder if they even 
existed.
The HIGs for most popular OSes (along with a lot of other usability 
links) are available on the right of this page:


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
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Re: [ANN] ChatRev with Kevin Miller

[J. Landman Gay]

On 4/26/05 2:45 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:
Jacque-
Monday, April 25, 2005, 8:21:19 PM, you wrote:
JLG> Bjoernke, I tried to sign on with ChatRev last week and couldn't 
JLG> connect. Is there more we should know about connecting, or was the
JLG> server down?

Which client are you using? I had trouble until I grabbed the latest
client from Bjornke's site. The port has changed to 8008 from whatever
it used to be. If you're getting errors like "" or "" then
that's probably the problem.
I had downloaded the latest 1.3 and it had the right port number. I 
didn't get any errors, it just wouldn't connect. It just sort of sat there.

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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RE: another multi-user "solution"?

[Rob Cozens]

Xavier, et al:

In a server-client - the client doesn't touch the database. Only sends
updates to the server to queue up changes. This way, you have no locks, no
problems. Everyone accesses it.
A server-client system eliminates the potential for data collision; but you 
still need record locking so one user can prevent others from changing the 
record she is currently working on while she is working on it.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
 Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
 from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 

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RE: Well done runrev. valentina

[Lynn Fredricks]

> And a tip of the hat to the good folks at Valentina, as I 
> suspect they had a hand in their web site too. :)
> 
> They've been very helpful to Rev folks using their DB, and it 
> is indeed nice to see them get more public about the great 
> support they've been providing the Rev community for years.

Thanks, Richard! And just to let you all know, Valentina 2 for Revolution is
on the visible horizon.

Over the last two years, Paradigma Software has undergone a number of
changes, both technological and business. Our friends at Runtime have been
very supportive, and the support is about to pay off.

With Valentina 2 for Revolution, we will continue the single connection
pricing and configurations we have always had, with significant technology
improvements. You can find core technology improvements here:

http://www.paradigmasoft.com/en/technology

The improvements have been significant, and in response to our customers
needs around the world. We have made signficant technology improvements to
provide the best solution for Japan and international business.

We've also introduced Valentina Developer Network, which will allow royalty
free deployment of multi-user, client-server applications. Valentina
Embedded Server is automatically initialized to support five simultanous
connections. These can be extended by any number of connections or with an
unlimited connection version, on a per-deployment basis. 

These extensions to Embedded Server are ONLY available to VDN members, so it
keeps the developer in control of the customer relationship.

VDN was set up to support *our customer*, the developer, in the relationship
with the end user of *their* solution. This reflects growing concerns in the
custom software and system integration market of big vendors trampling on
relationships to try to direct sell.

We've been improving both the business and technology. I hope Revolution
developers will take the opportunity revisit Valentina 2, especially with
the impending roll-out of Valentina 2 for Revolution.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software, Inc






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RE: Draw over existing objects

[MisterX]

Frank

> Maybe I'm just missing something here, but that stack doesn't 
> seem relevant.
> 
> set the tool to "graphic"
> set the style of the templateGraphic to "rectangle"

you're not obliged to be in drawing mode... You can simulate it with a 
cursor and a moving/resizing rect or graphic (with a marquee pattern).

> then let the user draw in a window whose entire visible area 
> is covered by a group.  The tool seemingly ignores the fact 
> that it is a "drawing" 
> tool (rather than a "selection" tool) and tries to select the 
> group rather than draw a new rectangle.

Then you select what falls in the "selection" by intersection or 
inclusion... Im not sure i'd use
a group rather than a simple rect graphic (simpler)... 

> The group is not marked as opaque, currently has no objects 
> within it (it is an empty group), is set to cantSelect, has 
> both scrollbars, is visible, and covers all but a small part 
> of the window, where I am dragging a palette along with the 
> window (as a toolbar -- not a perfect solution, of course, 
> but the best I've come up with so far given Rev's feature set 
> in terms of the drawing tools).

im lost here... What does the group do? Are you supposed to scroll 
when dragging beyond the edge?

Xav

> On Apr 25, 2005, at 2:20 PM, MisterX wrote:
> 
> > look at how ResizeN2O does it...
> >
> > 
> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=78
> >
> > Another example (but in browse mode) is how i make palettes 
> > draggeable...
> > just intercept (or pass) the mousedown except where you 
> shouldn't (or 
> > should)...
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> > http://monsieurx.com - TAOO - the rave in RAD
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Frank 
> >> D. Engel, Jr.
> >> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:45
> >> To: How to use Revolution
> >> Subject: Draw over existing objects
> >>
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> I am trying to set up an environment where I can use the standard 
> >> drawing tools (graphic, field, pointer) and draw over top 
> of a group, 
> >> so that I can catch the new objects and add them to the 
> group myself.
> >> I set the cantSelect of the group, etc., and that stuff is working 
> >> okay; however, when I try to draw over the group, nothing happens.
> >>
> >> Apparently, Rev automatically tries to select an object when you 
> >> mouseDown on it in pointer mode, even when you are using 
> the graphic 
> >> tool instead of the pointer tool.  Thus instead of 
> starting to draw a 
> >> graphic, Rev is trying to select the group, but sees the 
> cantSelect 
> >> property and just decides to do nothing instead.
> >>
> >> Anyone know of a way to convince Rev to start the new 
> graphic rather 
> >> than just sit there when I try to draw with such a group 
> underneath?
> >>
> >> Rev 2.5, OS X.3.whatever, etc.
> >>
> >> Thank you!
> >>
> >>
> >> - ---
> >> Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | 
> >> grep "John 3:16"
> >> John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his 
> only begotten 
> >> Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
> >> everlasting life.
> >> $
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> >> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> >>
> >> iD8DBQFCbSy67aqtWrR9cZoRAkqDAKCL1dtDU1J4ZY3lwBCiPsyboGJm0wCgg+KV
> >> Emd46eKmarOeRcn3rKrDEWk=
> >> =lzNq
> >> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
> >
> - ---
> Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
> $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
> John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only 
> begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not 
> perish, but have everlasting life.
> $
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> 
> iD8DBQFCbkZJ7aqtWrR9cZoRAnOkAJ4jDU5Z3gKfCSMdPxWUdkKFGGL6RQCbBUTM
> p8l2ix39fxsJftvBUHjuomM=
> =UCgw
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> 
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> $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 
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Re: Working with animated gifs

[Klaus Major]

Hi Glen,
I was wondering if there are some general guidelines on how to use
animated gifs in Rev on the XP platform?
Turning the animation on and off would be my first question. I
understand that I can set the repeat and direction properties in the
property inspector and that actually shows the animation but how do
you do it at the script level?
I took this opportunity and uploaded an old stack of mine to Rev-online:
User: klausimausi
Name: The taming of the animated gif... :-)
That may get you started...
thanks,
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Draw over existing objects

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Maybe I'm just missing something here, but that stack doesn't seem 
relevant.

There is lots of code in there for a number of things, but I am looking 
for a way to, for example:

set the tool to "graphic"
set the style of the templateGraphic to "rectangle"
then let the user draw in a window whose entire visible area is covered 
by a group.  The tool seemingly ignores the fact that it is a "drawing" 
tool (rather than a "selection" tool) and tries to select the group 
rather than draw a new rectangle.

The group is not marked as opaque, currently has no objects within it 
(it is an empty group), is set to cantSelect, has both scrollbars, is 
visible, and covers all but a small part of the window, where I am 
dragging a palette along with the window (as a toolbar -- not a perfect 
solution, of course, but the best I've come up with so far given Rev's 
feature set in terms of the drawing tools).


On Apr 25, 2005, at 2:20 PM, MisterX wrote:
look at how ResizeN2O does it...
http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=78
Another example (but in browse mode) is how i make palettes 
draggeable...
just intercept (or pass) the mousedown except where you shouldn't (or
should)...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com - TAOO - the rave in RAD
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Frank D. Engel, Jr.
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:45
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Draw over existing objects
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I am trying to set up an environment where I can use the
standard drawing tools (graphic, field, pointer) and draw
over top of a group, so that I can catch the new objects and
add them to the group myself.
I set the cantSelect of the group, etc., and that stuff is
working okay; however, when I try to draw over the group,
nothing happens.
Apparently, Rev automatically tries to select an object when
you mouseDown on it in pointer mode, even when you are using
the graphic tool instead of the pointer tool.  Thus instead
of starting to draw a graphic, Rev is trying to select the
group, but sees the cantSelect property and just decides to
do nothing instead.
Anyone know of a way to convince Rev to start the new graphic
rather than just sit there when I try to draw with such a
group underneath?
Rev 2.5, OS X.3.whatever, etc.
Thank you!
- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
iD8DBQFCbSy67aqtWrR9cZoRAkqDAKCL1dtDU1J4ZY3lwBCiPsyboGJm0wCgg+KV
Emd46eKmarOeRcn3rKrDEWk=
=lzNq
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCbkZJ7aqtWrR9cZoRAnOkAJ4jDU5Z3gKfCSMdPxWUdkKFGGL6RQCbBUTM
p8l2ix39fxsJftvBUHjuomM=
=UCgw
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Working with animated gifs

[Glen Bojsza]

I was wondering if there are some general guidelines on how to use
animated gifs in Rev on the XP platform?

Turning the animation on and off would be my first question. I
understand that I can set the repeat and direction properties in the
property inspector and that actually shows the animation but how do
you do it at the script level?

thanks,
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Re: Simulating 'drawer' behaviour on Windows

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Apr 26, 2005, at 9:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://search.microsoft.com/search/results.aspx?view=en- 
us&st=b&na=82&qu=human+interface+guidelines&s=4

Knowing how to use a website reduces the amount of non-sense ranting  
that
is required to prove that Apple's web designers are better ;)

Besides, Win GUIs are the worst and we all know it - after lotus  
notes...
Oh, you didn't mention how bad IBM's website designers were! ;))
Only because it didn't seem relevant, not because I hadn't noticed.
- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten  
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have  
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCbkLK7aqtWrR9cZoRAuyGAJ9xwPkdk3gTdBbY4ysyOy2EE7UtIgCfco+s
4szXZOc3Dvzay527jA/Ac5k=
=6ZJV
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: To MySQL or Not SQL

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
It's one of the few databases I'd consider inferior to MySql, not 
because it lacks cross-platform compatibility, but because it is a 
Microsoft product ;-)

Realistically, any of the major database servers will have advantages 
and disadvantages compared to the others.  I personally like 
PostgreSQL: it is free for both noncommercial *and* commercial use 
(unlike MySql, which is only free for non-commercial use), it is 
reasonably fast and quite powerful, fully ACID-compliant, supports 
stored procedures, views, and so forth, has a sizable user community, 
etc.

And it runs just fine on my OS X box, along with Windows, Linux, and a 
variety of other platforms.

On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:49 AM, Jim Carwardine wrote:
What about the differences between MySQL and MSSQL.  The proponents of 
MSSQL
are adamant that it is far better.  Is it really?  Of course, it's not
x-platform, which is a mark against it in my books... Jim

on 4/25/05 3:58 PM, Bill wrote:
Yes I agree that SQL is the way to go. I can't wait until the MySQL to
SQLite utility is released so that I can try SQLite. I think it will 
be
faster at connecting.

On 4/25/05 2:17 PM, "Dan Shafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anyone else thinking along these lines?
  |||
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)___))___))___)\
   )))_)\\
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^ ^
   ^^^^^
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P.O. Box 91
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCbkJa7aqtWrR9cZoRAsoQAJ0aMN6w4NN3gIgLL0JSNe6qY67FzACfab9U
WgSg71YvUbOWBSxrn/KLB1k=
=mwRm
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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RE: another multi-user "solution"?

[Lynch, Jonathan]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned...

But you will need a mechanism for handling a situation where a user
opens a file, then his computer crashes. At that point, he won't really
have it open, but the index will say he has it open. A possible solution
for this is for the index to not only record which files are open, but
also to record the IP address of the computer that has it open.

If the stack that accesses a data file sets itself to listen to a
particular port, then, when a different computer on the network tries to
access that data file, and sees in the index that it is open by a
particular computer, it can send a message to the IP address of that
computer verifying that it is still running.  If the original user's
computer does not respond, then the second user's computer can "take
over" ownership of that file. If the original user's computer does
respond, then the second user can return a message saying that the file
is currently open by that computer.


Another suggestion - regarding delimiters - I use ascII codes 28, 29,
30, and 31. These codes are actually set aside in the ascII set for the
purpose of delimiting files. Doing this allows you to have tab and
linefeed characters within a particular 'cell' in a data file. So far, I
have not had any problems using those characters.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt
Kaufman
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:59 AM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: another multi-user "solution"?


> sims wrote:
>> At 10:10 PM -0700 4/25/05, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if this will work for you, but lately I've been using
>>> tab-delimited text for the sorts of things I used to use cards for.
I
>>> maintain a one-card window for display, pouring data into the fields
>>> as needed, but the data itself is maintained as just straight text.
>>> Fast, flexible, and about as small as it can be
>>
>> Is this usually reading from text files or using custom properties?

As I mentioned, we need to have more than one user accessing parts of 
the data concurrently, so I needed the data itself to be saved outside 
of the user-operated stacks. I also wanted some sort of backup while 
the data was being worked on.  So I decided to try multiple text files, 
one for each record.

When FirstRecord.txt is opened, a BusyFirstRecord.txt is created that 
accomplishes two tasks: all of the existing data from FirstRecord.txt 
is backed-up to BusyFirstRecord.txt, and the latter also serves as a 
temporary block to any subsequent users that try to access 
FirstRecord.txt.  After user-updated data is saved to FirstRecord.txt, 
BusyFirstRecord.txt is then deleted. If there is a problem (i.e. 
user-operated stack crashes or computer problem, etc.), then the 
original data is still available in BusyFirstRecord.txt, which can be 
easily renamed or fixed in a text editor.

This app. is simply a "Rolodex" of accounts receivable; data across 
accounts are not needed; it would be cumbersome (but possible) to do 
calculations by opening/closing all of the accounts in succession using 
the method described above.

So far I've accessed a single group of records concurrently from Mac 
and Windows XP standalones (via VPC), and the mechanism seems to work 
well.  Today I'll try it in the real world and see if I can "break" it.

Kurt

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Re: Simulating 'drawer' behaviour on Windows

[xbury . cs]

Frank,

5 seconds search... 

http://search.microsoft.com/search/results.aspx?view=en-us&st=b&na=82&qu=human+interface+guidelines&s=4

Knowing how to use a website reduces the amount of non-sense ranting that 
is required to prove that Apple's web designers are better ;)

Besides, Win GUIs are the worst and we all know it - after lotus notes... 
Oh, you didn't mention how bad IBM's website designers were! ;))

cheerios
Xav

On 26.04.2005 14:46:03 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Hmm... I think M$ could stand to hire more capable web designers, as
>their web site is a disaster (particularly the developer sections).
>Where can I find the Windows HIG?  I was starting to wonder if they
>even existed.
>
>Thank you!
>
>On Apr 26, 2005, at 1:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> Ben Rubinstein wrote:
>>> As far as I can tell, it is not possible to make a really effective
>>> simulation on Windows of the MacOS X 'drawer' behaviour using
>>> transcript.
>>
>> I think I missed the original post, so please forgive me if this has
>> been addressed:
>>
>> The Win HIG recommends using a disclosure triangle for the sorts of
>> things the Aqua HIG recommends using drawers for.  Even better, the
>> Aqua HIG maintains support for disclosure triangles, so one solution
>> can cover you on all major platforms.
>>
>> Would a disclosure triangle not work in the app you're designing?
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Media Corporation
>>  __
>>  Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
>> ___
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>
>>
>- ---
>Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
>$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
>John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
>Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
>everlasting life.
>$
>-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
>
>iD8DBQFCbjgL7aqtWrR9cZoRAsbkAJ9ygFBulF4biMs3bEn2kTnqHs82jwCffkkd
>DgiQtfYFFIbpP91N6Q8NZsU=
>=Zh7Y
>-END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
>
>
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Re: To MySQL or Not SQL

[Jim Carwardine]

What about the differences between MySQL and MSSQL.  The proponents of MSSQL
are adamant that it is far better.  Is it really?  Of course, it's not
x-platform, which is a mark against it in my books... Jim

on 4/25/05 3:58 PM, Bill wrote:

> Yes I agree that SQL is the way to go. I can't wait until the MySQL to
> SQLite utility is released so that I can try SQLite. I think it will be
> faster at connecting.
> 
> 
> On 4/25/05 2:17 PM, "Dan Shafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Anyone else thinking along these lines?
> 
>   |||
>  )_)  )_)  )_)
> )___))___))___)\
>)))_)\\
>  _|||\\\__
> ---\   /- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
> ^ ^
>    ^^^^^
>    ^^^
> 
> 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
> fax: (787) 809-8426
> 
> Blue Water Maritime
> P.O. Box 91
> Puerto Real, PR 00740
> 
> 
> 
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-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.


Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
Phone: 902-823-2339. Fax: 902-823-2139

What¹s New...

* Have you ever hired an employee who didn¹t work out?

* Did you do that on purpose?

Probably not...

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 check out our new hiring process... www.HiringSmart.ca/ns

  and...
www.KeepingTheBest.ca/ns 



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MySQL Database Query Builder Question

[Martin]

Hi,
 
I'm trying to connect to my database which is hosted by oneandone.co.uk. I'm
using the database query builder in RR.
 
I set the name (Contact), 
host (db141.oneandone.co.uk) - this is the actual server name
Database (db), 
User (dbo)
Password ()
 
When I try to press the connect button I get an error "Unknown MySQL Host
'db141.oneandone.co.uk' (11004)'
 
I am able to connect to the database in PHP MyAdmin without any problems!
 
The only thing I can think of that could be causing this is the syntax of
the host name!! maybe I'm wrong, has anyone had this problem?
 
I've tried the MySQL database example in RR's video tutorials and it
connects fine.
 
Thank you
 
Martin McCarrick
 
 
 
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Re: Simulating 'drawer' behaviour on Windows

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hmm... I think M$ could stand to hire more capable web designers, as 
their web site is a disaster (particularly the developer sections).  
Where can I find the Windows HIG?  I was starting to wonder if they 
even existed.

Thank you!
On Apr 26, 2005, at 1:07 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Ben Rubinstein wrote:
As far as I can tell, it is not possible to make a really effective
simulation on Windows of the MacOS X 'drawer' behaviour using 
transcript.
I think I missed the original post, so please forgive me if this has 
been addressed:

The Win HIG recommends using a disclosure triangle for the sorts of 
things the Aqua HIG recommends using drawers for.  Even better, the 
Aqua HIG maintains support for disclosure triangles, so one solution 
can cover you on all major platforms.

Would a disclosure triangle not work in the app you're designing?
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
 Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCbjgL7aqtWrR9cZoRAsbkAJ9ygFBulF4biMs3bEn2kTnqHs82jwCffkkd
DgiQtfYFFIbpP91N6Q8NZsU=
=Zh7Y
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Starting from Shell

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
set the hideConsoleWindows to true -- optional, prevents "ugly" black 
windows from being displayed
get shell("jpegcompress")-- required

On Apr 26, 2005, at 12:05 AM, MisterX wrote:
Hi Derek
Just make sure the path to the jpegcompress.exe application is in the 
path
of windows.

To change the path, check window's help. (my computer properties -> tab
"advanced", environment variables... find the path and add your
application's path to it.
or drop your application in the winnt folder (but messy)...
cheers
Xavier
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Derek Bump
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 05:50
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Starting from Shell
How could I setup a rev standalone to launch on the following
shell command?
click "start"
choose "run"
type "jpegcompress" ==>  Boom, it loads!
I have no idea on how to set this up and I'd really like to
add this functionality without having to type the full path.
Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com/
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCbjdI7aqtWrR9cZoRAlz5AKCI19HsKCV95cG7xWZqSiFAqbgVewCdH5Jx
gvbP48Z+h/riDYT17MqC4Zo=
=2sMv
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: another multi-user "solution"?

[Kurt Kaufman]

sims wrote:
At 10:10 PM -0700 4/25/05, Richard Gaskin wrote:
I'm not sure if this will work for you, but lately I've been using
tab-delimited text for the sorts of things I used to use cards for. I
maintain a one-card window for display, pouring data into the fields
as needed, but the data itself is maintained as just straight text.
Fast, flexible, and about as small as it can be
Is this usually reading from text files or using custom properties?
As I mentioned, we need to have more than one user accessing parts of 
the data concurrently, so I needed the data itself to be saved outside 
of the user-operated stacks. I also wanted some sort of backup while 
the data was being worked on.  So I decided to try multiple text files, 
one for each record.

When FirstRecord.txt is opened, a BusyFirstRecord.txt is created that 
accomplishes two tasks: all of the existing data from FirstRecord.txt 
is backed-up to BusyFirstRecord.txt, and the latter also serves as a 
temporary block to any subsequent users that try to access 
FirstRecord.txt.  After user-updated data is saved to FirstRecord.txt, 
BusyFirstRecord.txt is then deleted. If there is a problem (i.e. 
user-operated stack crashes or computer problem, etc.), then the 
original data is still available in BusyFirstRecord.txt, which can be 
easily renamed or fixed in a text editor.

This app. is simply a "Rolodex" of accounts receivable; data across 
accounts are not needed; it would be cumbersome (but possible) to do 
calculations by opening/closing all of the accounts in succession using 
the method described above.

So far I've accessed a single group of records concurrently from Mac 
and Windows XP standalones (via VPC), and the mechanism seems to work 
well.  Today I'll try it in the real world and see if I can "break" it.

Kurt
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Re: counting keystrokes

[sims]

At 10:19 AM +0100 4/26/05, Frank Leahy wrote:
1) It's possible that RunRev is merely simulating the Mac effect for 
Windows, by providing a keymap function that only works when RunRev 
is frontmost.  If this is the case, then your app will never see 
other app keystrokes on Windows.

2) I assume you realize that there's no guarantee that you'll see 
all keystrokes, even with your Mac version?  By calling "wait 10 
millisecs with messages" you're assuming first, that keystrokes 
don't happen any faster than 10 milliseconds, and second, that your 
app will be given a time-slice every 10 milliseconds...either of 
these might be incorrect, resulting in lost keystrokes (though 
possibly not enough to matter).
Thanks for this interesting information Frank.
I'm beginning to think that I'll need a dll or some sort of 'extra' 
bit to help me.

I'm using a combination of time & keystrokes and an exact count is 
not critical but
your point is well taken.

ciao,
sims
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Some kind of incompatibility issue

[Richard Miller]

Ran into an interesting little bug.
Discovered there is an incompatibility between OS 10.3.9 (the most 
recent OSX update), RR's Quicktime video capture functions, and our 
USB-based touch screen drivers. Enabling the video grabber functions 
disables our touch screen. Switching back to 10.3.8 eliminates the 
problem. Tried this on several computers to verify it is strictly tied 
to 10.3.9.

Apple has done something that is interacting with Rev code in a less 
than positive manner. Good chance it'll extend to Tiger. No idea what's 
going on.

Richard Miller
Imprinter Technologies
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Re: counting keystrokes

[Frank Leahy]

Sims,
The keymap was originally a Macintosh toolbox data structure that sat 
in low-memory, specifying which keys were currently down.  It was 
intended primarily to let the front-most app see if the user had 
multiple keys down simultaneously (e.g. ctrl-option-shift-delete), but 
like others before you, you've found that it's also possible to check 
for keys down from other than the front-most app.

Two comments:
1) It's possible that RunRev is merely simulating the Mac effect for 
Windows, by providing a keymap function that only works when RunRev is 
frontmost.  If this is the case, then your app will never see other app 
keystrokes on Windows.

2) I assume you realize that there's no guarantee that you'll see all 
keystrokes, even with your Mac version?  By calling "wait 10 millisecs 
with messages" you're assuming first, that keystrokes don't happen any 
faster than 10 milliseconds, and second, that your app will be given a 
time-slice every 10 milliseconds...either of these might be incorrect, 
resulting in lost keystrokes (though possibly not enough to matter).

Regards,
-- Frank
Web Photos Pro: Software for Photo Bloggers and Other Photo Power Users
See us on the web at http://www.webphotospro.com/
On Apr 26, 2005, at 8:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

From: sims <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: counting keystrokes
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
What if you make the window a systemWindow so that it is always at 
the front?
Interesting idea...and if I don't want that window to show I could
hide it somehow.
I'll give that a try, thanks.
Actually, I am surprised that it works in any system. I would have
assumed that keystrokes only got passed to the front application no
matter what OS you were using :-)
Surprised me also...but it works on OS X, at least with all the
non-Rev apps I have
and that includes Word.
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Re: someone noticed this one?

[Klaus Major]

Hi Chipp,
Hmmm. Show of hands-- anyone who has lost a client to RR?
I really don't see it as a threat, especially since they're in 
Scotland, and I don't know of any clients who wouldn't rather work 
with customers in their own country.
My guess, is the main point here is they're offering to become a 
resource for *us developers* if we need to make engine modifications, 
etc.. In fact, they advertise 3rd party RR developer services on their 
website! In fact, I've gotten a lead or 2 already from the website 
links.
wow, are you currently working through the "use revolution" archieves 
starting at 1946 or
are you testing the prototype of a new "altTimeWarp" plugin? :-)

That post (my post and a bit premature, i have to confess, but i was 
young and needed the money)
was from october 2004 and should be considered "done" ;-)

best,
Chipp
Regards from germany
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: OT: 10.4 "Automator" = Applescript?

[Pierre Sahores]

In addition to what you are saying, Richard, i have the feeling that 
there is some of the good old "KeyQuencer" ground code behind 
Automator...

Todd Higgins wrote:
On Apr 25, 2005, at 2:40 PM, Kurt Kaufman wrote:
Anyone know if Mac 10.4's "Automator" is a collection of 
customizable pre-fab Applescripts? As the author of a few Rev 
utilities that use Applescript, I'm wondering if Applescript will 
continue as before?
...
Applescript will continue on strong as ever.  Automator is just a 
tool that will help people harness the power of Applescript without 
having to learn how to program.  Or so the marketing speak goes. ; > 
)
From the session I attended at WWDC last year on Automator, it appears 
to be merely a point-and-click way to write AppleScript, just like 
interface for making scripts that you can use with Flash in leiu of 
directly typing, or the point-and-click scripting found in FileMaker 
Pro for years (and a bit like an old flow-chart GUI for scripting 
graphics apps in UNIX called, if memory serves, AVS, with its 
structured inputs and outputs).

Apple's implementation is in some ways more graceful, but the central 
concept of making a point-and-click UI alternative for scripting isn't 
new.

Just the same, once the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field is turned 
up to full volume at Tiger's release, we can expect the lay and even 
trade press to momentarily forget the history of scripting 
environments and declare that they've seen God.

;)
--
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Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores
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Re: [ANN] ChatRev with Kevin Miller

[Mark Wieder]

Jacque-

Monday, April 25, 2005, 8:21:19 PM, you wrote:

JLG> Bjoernke, I tried to sign on with ChatRev last week and couldn't 
JLG> connect. Is there more we should know about connecting, or was the
JLG> server down?

Which client are you using? I had trouble until I grabbed the latest
client from Bjornke's site. The port has changed to 8008 from whatever
it used to be. If you're getting errors like "" or "" then
that's probably the problem.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
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Re: IDE Grouping Woes! Help!

[Sarah Reichelt]

Hi Dave,
Could you post a copy of your stack in RevOnline or email it to me 
off-list? I have never come across a problem like this before, so would 
be interested to see if I could work out what causes it.

Have a Stack that used to comtain:
GroupX   (layer order)
  Graphic rect BoundingRect
  Graphic rect G-
  Graphic rect G-1112  etc.
The rectangles G- are all contained within BoundingRect.
I then added two buttons to the stack.
Ungrouped "GroupX" made the bounding rect smalled but shifting the 
bottom so it was shorter, moved the buttons to within the Rect of 
GroupX, regrouped and saved the Stack. Then the Group looked like 
this:
Why did you un-group & then re-group? If it was just to add the new 
buttons, you don't have to do it that way. You can either select the 
group, click "Edit group" in the toolbar and then create your buttons 
directly into the group, or you can create the buttons, cut them and 
then select the group and right-click to get the menu that allows you 
to paste into a group.
GroupX   (layer order)
  Button  "new"
  Button "delete"
  Graphic rect BoundingRect
  Graphic rect G-
  Graphic rect G-1112  etc.
All seemed fine.
Then I discover that some code doesn't work anymore! On further 
investigation the preOpenStack and openStack handlers are not being 
called. I then editing the card script to beep if openStack is entered 
and put a breakpoint on the beep and hey presto I hit the breakpoint 
and now everything works fine!
It may be that un-grouping & re-grouping messed with the message 
passing hierarchy. That's about all I can think of for this one.
I close the stack, shutdown RunRev and re-load the stack. Now 
"BoundingRect" is back to the size it was BEFORE I changed it BUT the 
buttons are still there!
I don't tend to use many graphics, but with images, after a resize you 
always need to lock the size & location. Maybe this is the same. 
Alternatively, you may have set up Geometry Manager to resize the 
BoundingRect, or you may have a script that does it.
I if now attempt to change the Size of "BoundingRect" the IDE crashes!
Well that shouldn't happen no matter what you do. File a bug report at 
Bugzilla and attach the stack that makes this happen. If you have any 
crash logs, they are always useful too.
Wisely I made a backup! I am fast learning the ways of RunRev and it's 
ability to corrupt or lose stacks and always make a backup before 
doing anything major.
I've been programming in Rev for years now and the only stacks I lost 
were one day when I used the "delete file" command on the wrong 
folder... After learning to cope with HyperCard's ability to corrupt 
stacks on a regular basis, Rev is very refreshing :-)

Cheers,
Sarah
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