Re: Why choose Revolution

[J. Valle 1234web.net]

Richard, thanks for your help.

Another question related to your article "Extending Message Path".

You talk about Script Limits, could these limits be changed? and if is
not possible, what it means in terms of the application size/complexity?

Thanks
Jose
-- 
J. Valle 1234web.net <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: How do I edit a bg image?

[Thomas McGrath III]

Hey Tim,

There are no bg images in REV. All images are just images!?! You can 
however treat an image as a bg group and have it show up on all newly 
created cards or you can use "place" to place the bg group on an 
existing card, in effect this acts similar to HC then but with more 
power. If your HC project has a lot of the same images on each card and 
they were converted to a single image on each card in REV then it would 
be worth your time to delete the extras except the first card and group 
that image and place on each card/auto place on new cards. This way if 
you edit the one image it will show up on all cards.


Now, to edit your images (all images) select the image and in the 
properties panel for the image there is a pencil button that will open 
the image in your chosen image editor (if you have not chosen one a 
dialog will open asking you to pick one - Photoshop in my case).


Then the image will open in your chosen editor and when you are done 
you will close/save the image in the editor and go back to REV and hit 
update and there you have it - image edited.


This works on linked (files on your HD) images in REV and also images 
that only exist in REV with no external file.


HTH

Tom McGrath

On Jul 23, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:


Howdy, y'all,

Because my Rev stacks are HC imports, all the bitmapped text and 
graphics from each HC background became a single background image in 
Rev. (Unless I misunderstood something, which is quite possible.) I 
know how to identify the images, make them visible and invisible, 
change their locations, and so on, but I'd like to edit some of them. 
How do I do that?


As usual, I searched the docs, but couldn't find anything. If the 
information is in there, it's hard to find.



Thanks in advance,


Tim
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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.6



Advanced Media Group
Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
Semantic Compaction Systems
Prentke Romich Company
Prentke Romich International
SCIconics, LLC
Artist
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Place vs Copy

[Dan Soneson]

Have you looked into the clone command? You'd still be doing multiple
copies of the original group, but possibly faster. Apparently, you can 
also

use use "Edit > Replicate..." in the menu to make as many copies of the
group (and place them in relation to one another on your card) as you 
wish.


Dan


Mark Wieder wrote:


I think making multiple copies of the group and pasting them onto the
card is what I'm stuck with here. My guess is that "place" makes an
alias of the original group and pastes it into the destination,
enabling backgroundBehavior along the way.



Yes, it sounds like you are stuck with that. I didn't know you were
trying to put multiple copies on the same card. Groups aren't meant to
do that and I don't think you can.



Daniel B. Soneson
Director, Language Lab
Southern CT State University

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Re: Why choose Revolution

[jbv]

Jose,

> Richard, thanks for your help.
>
> Another question related to your article "Extending Message Path".
>
> You talk about Script Limits, could these limits be changed? and if is
> not possible, what it means in terms of the application size/complexity?
>

AFAIR the limit of a script is in the Mb range (possibly 32Mb, although
this needs to be checked - you'll probably find several threads about Rev
or MC limits in the archives).
IOW that leaves plenty of room for complexity... FYI, the longest script
I ever wrote weighted 100 Kb and was 3200 lines long. Anyway, it's
always a good idea to split Rev scripts into smaller chunks, which makes
things much easier for debugging (and reuse) your code... and also because
Rev doesn't feature (yet) debugging tools making it easy to handle millions
of lines of code...

Best,
JB

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Re: Why choose Revolution

[J. Landman Gay]

jbv wrote:

Jose,



Richard, thanks for your help.

Another question related to your article "Extending Message Path".

You talk about Script Limits, could these limits be changed? and if is
not possible, what it means in terms of the application size/complexity?




AFAIR the limit of a script is in the Mb range (possibly 32Mb, although
this needs to be checked - you'll probably find several threads about Rev
or MC limits in the archives).


A script can be up to 4 gigs. But "script limits" here isn't refering to 
the size of a script written in the IDE, but rather how many lines a 
script can be if a standalone tries to set one. Without the development 
environment running, a new script can be only 10 lines long.


This is not usually a problem. Almost always, scripts are written during 
development and made into a standalone afterward; it is only rarely that 
a standalone needs to write and set a script on the fly, and the 10-line 
limit in this case can often be worked around in various ways.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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ANN: Update on Nine Ball

[Jim Hurley]

With the sound on I was hearing multiple collisions when a ball was 
pocketed. ("Sound on" works well in OS X. Probably not in Windows. 
Use the preferences to turn  the sound off.)


After much confusion, I discovered that balls that had been pocketed 
(and set to a loc off screen) were undergoing collisions off screen. 
Not good to have pocketed balls playing their own game off screen.


The update corrects this. (When a ball is pocketed the ball number is 
put into a custom property. Subsequently, when a repeat loop comes 
across this number, it does a "next repeat" thereby ignoring all 
pocketed balls. Not only does this avoid off screen collisions, but 
it is more efficient.)


New and improved at:

(Run this in the message box.)
go stack url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/NineBallWithSpin.rev";



Jim
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empty ask result + ok = result:cancel

[MisterX]

im implementing a nice search and replace function and well, check it out...
 
local lselection

on mouseenter
  put "viewbar" into f
  get the selectedtext of fld f
 put it into lselection
  end if
end mouseenter

on mouseUp
  local f,x,y,txt
  
  put "viewbar" into f
  put fld f into txt
  
  ask "Replace what:" with lselection
  put it into x
  get the result
  if it is "cancel" then exit mouseup
  ask "Replace with:" with it
  put it into y
  get the result
  if it is "cancel" then exit mouseup
  
  replace x with y in fld f
end mouseup

Now, if i want to replace x with nothing, i leave the second ask
empty but the result, despite clicking OK, is "Cancel"... grrr

Can any of you replicate this?
bugzilla or is it me?

TIA
cheers
Xavier

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Re: Place vs Copy

[Mark Wieder]

Dan-

Sunday, July 24, 2005, 7:22:16 AM, you wrote:

DS> Have you looked into the clone command? You'd still be doing multiple
DS> copies of the original group, but possibly faster. Apparently, you can
DS> also
use use "Edit >> Replicate..." in the menu to make
use use "Edit >> as many copies of the
DS> group (and place them in relation to one another on your card) as you
DS> wish.

Hmmm. Interesting idea. I hadn't thought of using "clone" instead of
"paste". Now that I've tried it, though, the timing seems to be
exactly the same.

And I have to admit that I've never even looked at the "Replicate..."
menuItem, even though I use "Duplicate" all the time. However, I need
to script the copying, so this isn't going to be an option, even if it
did turn out to be faster.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Scripting conference - Script Anatomy 2 log available

[J. Landman Gay]

The transcript log of yesterday's Script Anatomy 2 scripting conference 
has been placed into the conference stack, and the revised stack is now 
available at the usual place:




Frank did a great job -- check it out.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: empty ask result + ok = result:cancel

[Dennis Brown]

x,

This script works fine on my OS X machine with 2.6 (108)
That is once I take out that extra end if

The empty and cancel are returned as expected.

Dennis

On Jul 24, 2005, at 2:04 PM, MisterX wrote:


local lselection

on mouseenter
  put "viewbar" into f
  get the selectedtext of fld f
 put it into lselection
  end if
end mouseenter

on mouseUp
  local f,x,y,txt

  put "viewbar" into f
  put fld f into txt

  ask "Replace what:" with lselection
  put it into x
  get the result
  if it is "cancel" then exit mouseup
  ask "Replace with:" with it
  put it into y
  get the result
  if it is "cancel" then exit mouseup

  replace x with y in fld f
end mouseup



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Polling in Rev (send verses wait)

[Glen Bojsza]

I am working on an app that needs to do a polling routine every N
seconds (where N is defaulted to 10 unless the user defines it
themselves). The routine gathers information from some files and
parses it with the results being displayed in the appropriate fields.

This routine needs to be a run as a background process because the
user will be working with the application to update information etc.

The Rev docs lead me to think that either the send or the wait command
could be used. I was hoping someone would shed some light on which
selection should be used in this case.

thanks,
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Re: Deep-mask feature revisited and snapshots

[Wilhelm Sanke]

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005, "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


if you try the normal shift-printscreenKey command in windows
you will be able to paste the image...

no camera needed!

cheers
Xavier




Xavier,

You are right of course. Only you get a picture of the complete screen, 
6.5 MB in my case, then you have to start your image program to select 
and process the area of the screenshot you really need. With a camera 
screenshot you could select the area in advance.


On a Mac - with the screenshot program that comes with OSX - you could 
select an area or window ; I did not yet test if it is able to capture a 
deep-mask stack.


Anyway, I would like to know whether this eluding visibility comes as an 
unavoidable corollary for stacks with the deep-mask feature or if this 
is a bug.


Maybe somebody from the Rev team could comment here?

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke

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Re: Polling in Rev (send verses wait)

[J. Landman Gay]

Glen Bojsza wrote:

I am working on an app that needs to do a polling routine every N
seconds (where N is defaulted to 10 unless the user defines it
themselves). The routine gathers information from some files and
parses it with the results being displayed in the appropriate fields.

This routine needs to be a run as a background process because the
user will be working with the application to update information etc.

The Rev docs lead me to think that either the send or the wait command
could be used. I was hoping someone would shed some light on which
selection should be used in this case.


Use "send". More info here:




--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Squarified Treemaps

[Mike Doub]

I am doing some experimentation with data visualization and was wondering if
anyone had already created a control for a Squarified Treemap written in
transcript.

Are there any other transcript based data visualization tools available?

Thanks in Advance.
   Mike



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Re: empty ask result + ok = result:cancel

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Xavier,

May be I'm wrong but your code makes no sense for me :-)
You want to get a result but you insert a line of code between the  
command and the request for the result: can't work.
You have to request the result immediately without requesting  
anything else to the engine in the meantime.
Then you ask replace with it:" it" is supposed to be a result and is  
not a result...
And I don't understand why you would place a result as default in an  
ask dialog...


As for me - but may be again, I'm wrong - I could write:

on mouseUp
  local f,x,y,txt
  -
  put "viewbar" into f
  put fld f into txt
  -
  ask "Replace what:" with lselection
  if the result = "cancel" then exit mouseUp
  put it into x
  -
  ask "Replace with:" with it
  if the result = "cancel" then exit mouseUp
  put it into y
  -
  replace x with y in fld f
end mouseUp

Le 24 juil. 05 à 20:04, MisterX a écrit :

im implementing a nice search and replace function and well, check  
it out...


local lselection

on mouseenter
  put "viewbar" into f
  get the selectedtext of fld f
 put it into lselection
  end if
end mouseenter

on mouseUp
  local f,x,y,txt

  put "viewbar" into f
  put fld f into txt

  ask "Replace what:" with lselection
  put it into x
  get the result
  if it is "cancel" then exit mouseup
  ask "Replace with:" with it
  put it into y
  get the result
  if it is "cancel" then exit mouseup

  replace x with y in fld f
end mouseup

Now, if i want to replace x with nothing, i leave the second ask
empty but the result, despite clicking OK, is "Cancel"... grrr


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: Polling in Rev (send verses wait)

[Glen Bojsza]

Thanks Jacque,

I have built a quick script that uses "send" and it seems to work well.

regards,

Glen

On 7/24/05, J. Landman Gay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Glen Bojsza wrote:
> > I am working on an app that needs to do a polling routine every N
> > seconds (where N is defaulted to 10 unless the user defines it
> > themselves). The routine gathers information from some files and
> > parses it with the results being displayed in the appropriate fields.
> >
> > This routine needs to be a run as a background process because the
> > user will be working with the application to update information etc.
> >
> > The Rev docs lead me to think that either the send or the wait command
> > could be used. I was hoping someone would shed some light on which
> > selection should be used in this case.
> 
> Use "send". More info here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: Scale an image from an absolute point

[Roger . E . Eller]

Thank you to everyone who replied to this thread. Using snippets from each 
suggestion, I think I will be able to arrive at a solution that fits my 
situation.

Roger Eller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: Printing only selected pages

[Sarah Reichelt]

I ran into a problem today, that I am surprised not
to have
encountered before. I use revPrintField to print a
multi-page
document and usually I print it to a PDF and then
print selected
pages if needed. Today I tried printing directly
from Revolution
(this is just a stack that runs from the IDE) and
despite selecting
page 1 to 1 in the print dialog, it tried to print
all the pages.

I guess I have a couple of questions:
- does this happen to everyone, in which case I'll
bugzilla it?
- is there a workaround?

TIA,
Sarah




Hi Sarah,

The revPrintField and revPrintText commands are not
designed to handle this. You could hack these
yourself, but unfortunately, the engine does not give
us a way to determine which pages the user wanted to
print.
I noticed that SuperCard 4.5 has a new 'printRange'
property. Naturally, I'm one of the people who hope
that this will be added to Revolution soon.

Jan Schenkel.


Thanks Jan,

I'll add this to bugzilla as a feature request. If Rev allows us to  
use the standard print dialog, then it should respect the settings it  
gets back from that dialog.


Cheers,
Sarah

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Re: Scale an image from an absolute point

[Ken Norris]

Hi again, Roger,

On Jul 23, 2005, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:



Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:10:52 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Scale an image from an absolute point

I need to scale an image from an absolute point within the image rect.
This point will not be the loc or any of the 4 corners. The image must
stay positioned (locked) by a point where the user clicks during the
scaling routine.


Is the rect of the image going to change, or do you want to zoom the 
image while maintaining a visible rect at the same size (image needs to 
be grouped)?



Does anyone have an idea of how to best approach this? I
could calculate the offset from the loc of the image, but this changes 
as

the image is dragged to be larger/smaller. Any ideas?


I took a shot at an idea I hoped might get you started but I guess I'm 
not understanding this. For example, I don't get how you are wanting to 
drag the image to change the size. Is that to change the image rect? 
See, that will also change the scale, so it's confusing what that is 
for, if you also expect to scale it another way as well.


IOW, it appears you're presenting several different things going on, 
and I don't have clear idea what you want to do.


Do you want to enlarge the image by dragging a corner (resizing the 
rect, which also scales the image),  and then zoom further from a point 
within the new rect while that new rect stays as it was set? How do you 
want to control the zoom?


I'm sure it can happen, and I've done quite a few things like this, so 
I thought I could help. Could you step  through the process as a user 
might do it, one thing at a time?


All the best,
Ken N.

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Re: Rev CGI argumets for ISP

[Andre Garzia]

On Jul 23, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Malte Brill wrote:

Hi list,
I´ve talked to my ISP if it was possible to use rev CGI on their  
servers. They are potentially interested to allow it, but need more  
technical details on stability, security, etc. . So if there is some  
kind of FAQ on Rev CGIs somewhere or some articles (besides the  
excellent getting started pages by Jaque) I would be glad if you let 
me  know.


I keep forgetting which additional libraries need to be installed with 
the engine to do that.


Anyone have those handy?



I don't think they need any non standard library. For the newer engines 
they need libC (GLIBC) 2.3, but that comes with any recent linux...


Cheers
andre



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org

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Rant Re Rev Documentation

[Timothy Miller]

Timothy Miller wrote:

Howdy, y'all,


--- snip ---


As usual, I searched the docs, but couldn't find anything. If the 
information is in there, it's hard to find.



I suspect this happens often. For this reason, I sometimes wish 
there were a Rev feature we could turn on which would collect our 
failed Docs search phrases, give us space to explain in longhand 
what we're looking for, and send the phrase and the explanation to 
RunRev. The purpose of the feature would be to inform those who 
create the docs of the language we use when searching, so maybe the 
docs could be brought more in line with our way of looking for info.


Food for thought.
Phil Davis



Hi Phil,

I appreciate your comment. It's a good idea. However, I'm not sure 
that the elementary information I needed exists in the onboard Rev 
documentation. Well... Pieces of it are in there, no doubt, but maybe 
not in a form that would have been useful to me, when I was stuck, 
given my skill level, which is above newbie, above novice, maybe 
around amateur, or a bit lower.


All I needed was a tip from the list. Simple was good. Jacque has a 
gift for getting the gist of a question, and then answering it 
clearly and briefly. (I appreciated the other suggestions also, 
though they were more complex than I really needed.) I enjoyed a 
blinding flash of the obvious, and I was ready to do my work.


I fear your comment is more than food for thought. It seems to me, 
sometimes, that your comment represents a life or death issue for 
Revolution. Rev is supposed to be "enterprise-ware" if I'm not 
mistaken. If I understand the term, enterprise-ware is appropriate 
for do-it-yourself end users.


In my opinion, it ain't enterprise-ware. Not yet, anyway. A person 
with my skill level as an all-around computer user, for many, many 
years, and former heavy HC user, should suffer far less difficulty 
with Rev than I have experienced. And I've been spending money on an 
(excellent) consultant, too. Consider the number of professional 
developers -- and other experts -- on the list, versus the number of 
newbies-with-questions. Look at the number of do-it-yourself end 
users, who use Rev for serious business. (Sometimes, it seems like 
I'm the only one in the world.) That suggests to me that something is 
wrong. (I assume it's obvious that the experts predominate.)


There have been a couple of bugs, and of course Rev is more 
feature-rich than HC, and it's different from HC in some important 
ways. But these have not been the main obstacles for me. The main 
obstacle is that there is no adequate documentation for Revolution. 
There's not even a manual! Even HC 1.0 shipped with a pretty good 
manual! And a reference guide, too, as I recall. Danny Goodman's HC 
books appeared not long after. They constituted more-than-adequate 
documentation, and they set the standard that Rev must follow, one 
way or another, and soon!


(I found a comprehensive Trancript dictionary on the Web the other 
day. It was over my head. That's not the answer. I'm not even sure I 
understood what it was.)


Rev's onboard documentation is a very good start, and I love it 
because it's onboard, and free. But many dictionary entries are just 
too terse. Terse is what I want -- sometimes. Like if I've forgotten 
some detail I used to know. At other times, like when I'm trying to 
do something I never did before, or I can't get something to work and 
I can't figure out why it's not working, I need verbose. A book could 
do that, but this is the kind of situation that is best handled by 
hypertext. (Given Rev's hypertext capabilities, that's ironic at the 
laugh-or-cry level.) In other words, the onboard documentation might 
be the best delivery method. Rev will certainly be able to attract 
customers more effectively, if the customers can get started without 
buying an expensive and intimidating thick book.


Getting back to terse and verbose, if I filter or search the 
dictionary, it seems to me I should get the terse explanation. A 
simple link could, and should, give me a more detailed and digestible 
verbose explanation.


The related terms are great, sometimes. If they're mostly mysterious 
to me, they are too terse, also. A verbose version of related terms 
would provide a fairly brief and digestible summary each term's 
meaning, with a link for each one, of course.


Scripting examples in the onboard docs are very sparse. Often there 
are about three. Once again, sometimes that's fine, sometimes not. If 
none of the examples are particularly relevant to what I'm trying to 
do, or fix, I've got a problem. I should have the option of a verbose 
version of the scripting examples. Rev is so feature-rich that two or 
three dozen scripting examples would be barely sufficient, in some 
cases.


The onboard docs are missing other obvious links, as well. How about 
a "gotchas" link for most dictionary terms? The gotchas could be 
rank-ordered from mistakes commonly made by newbies to 

Re: Rev CGI argumets for ISP

[Dan Shafer]

Depends on the distro. FreeBSD, for example, apparently does not yet  
support this, nor does Debian.


dan

On Jul 24, 2005, at 6:45 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

For the newer engines they need libC (GLIBC) 2.3, but that comes  
with any recent linux...




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Re: Rant Re Rev Documentation

[Sarah Reichelt]

Hi Tim,

I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure I agree with your  
idea of the what the docs are for. I see them as a reference guide,  
not a tutorial. For learning Revolution, you need other resources:  
the built-in tutorials, the scripting conference stacks, Dan's book,  
this list and the other resources available on the net.


I too was a long-time HyperCard user, but I didn't learn HyperTalk by  
using the HyperCard manuals. I learnt from Dan Shafer's book  
"HyperTalk Programming" and from the HyperCard list. The docs were  
only used as a reference to check the syntax of a command I knew I  
wanted to use or to look up the variations of a command.


When I converted to Revolution, I read the list of entries in the  
Transcript dictionary, mainly so I could get a feel for what sort of  
things were available to me. Many I already knew, and some where  
completely new to me, so I stopped to read them, but the main object  
at that stage was to give myself an idea of what commands I could  
use, if I needed them in the future.


Then I did all the tutorials and then put together a test stack where  
I wrote code snippets that tried out some of the new commands that I  
knew I would use immediately.


Now I realize that there are many different learning styles (there  
are people on this list far more qualified to talk about that than I  
am), but I just wanted to let you know that it IS possible to learn  
Revolution from the available material.


To use a weak analogy, it is as if you are annoyed because a French  
dictionary is not teaching you how to speak French :-)


Cheers,
Sarah

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Re: Rev CGI argumets for ISP

[Thomas McCarthy]

>Depends on the distro. FreeBSD, for example, apparently does not yet support 
>this

Funny, I just started doing CGI and it was on FreeBSD. No problems! I just went 
to the rev site and got the proper Unix version.

(I did this about 3 weeks ago)
tm

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Re: Rev CGI argumets for ISP

[Richard Gaskin]

Andre Garzia wrote:


On Jul 23, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Malte Brill wrote:


Hi list,
I´ve talked to my ISP if it was possible to use rev CGI on their  
servers. They are potentially interested to allow it, but need more  
technical details on stability, security, etc. . So if there is some  
kind of FAQ on Rev CGIs somewhere or some articles (besides the  
excellent getting started pages by Jaque) I would be glad if you let 
me  know.



I keep forgetting which additional libraries need to be installed with 
the engine to do that.


Anyone have those handy?



I don't think they need any non standard library. For the newer engines 
they need libC (GLIBC) 2.3, but that comes with any recent linux...


My understanding is that manu ISPs don't install all of the libraries 
one would install for desktop use, and that three (?) of those are 
needed for Rev to work as a CGI.


Did this change in a recent version?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Rev CGI argumets for ISP

[J. Landman Gay]

Richard Gaskin wrote:

My understanding is that manu ISPs don't install all of the libraries 
one would install for desktop use, and that three (?) of those are 
needed for Rev to work as a CGI.


Did this change in a recent version?


I don't know, but probably not. When I first started with CGIs at my 
ISP, they were missing two libraries. I think Ken Ray had the same two 
missing on his. Other people have reported only one missing. I guess it 
depends on the hosted installation.


The good part is that you don't have to know ahead of time. The CGI 
script will error and then you check the error log. The missing 
libraries will be listed there, so all you have to do is holler at the 
ISP and tell them to get those installed.


Someone once told me you don't even need the real libraries; that all 
you need are empty text files in the right place with the right names. I 
don't know if that is really true, since my ISP went ahead and installed 
the ones I was missing.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rant Re Rev Documentation

[Thomas McGrath III]

Tim,

I too disagree with your request/demand that the reference guide be a 
tutorial as well. It is just a reference guide. I do wish there were 
more than three examples especially for the more complex commands like 
send, etc.


I went through the built-in tutorials and then the scripting conference 
and it's stacks. I was told to pay special attention to the 'see also' 
section of the docs as that was very thorough and well thought out. I 
checked out many of the REV web ring sites and read through helpful 
hints. I then started to download as many user contributed stacks as 
possible that I could find even before the RevOnline User area was 
available. I have hundreds of sample stacks with very, very useful 
information in them and more efficient ways to code solutions.


Lastly when I got stuck on something I hit the list and right away got 
at least two possible solutions for every problem I have ever posted. 
More often it was three or four solutions. Plus there are a couple of 
revchat, wiki, and educational sites with so much info on them that I 
have yet to read them all yet.


I have never needed to use any of my 10 support incidents that were 
included in my Enterprise version of Rev. That says a lot about these 
available resources. They are very, very good. I could not find a tenth 
of them for Director and most that I did find were not free.


My fear is that a tutorial/guide that you refer too would be more 
database influenced and cgi based etc. and I do mostly graphical user 
interfaces and prototypes and have very little need for database type 
solutions.


I was very frustrated during the first month learning curve as well 
coming from Supercard but once background groups and object properties 
were explained I started to feel more comfortable then the wonderful 
people on this list started showing me how fast and powerful things 
like send to me in 50 milliseconds  and things like 'is among' I was on 
fire and only need help with my bad code habits and with 
misunderstanding syntax that may not have an example that fits what I 
am doing.


Hang in there Tim,

I know you'll be contributing and helping the next guy that comes alond.
On Jul 24, 2005, at 10:55 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:


Hi Tim,

I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure I agree with your 
idea of the what the docs are for. I see them as a reference guide, 
not a tutorial. For learning Revolution, you need other resources: the 
built-in tutorials, the scripting conference stacks, Dan's book, this 
list and the other resources available on the net.
ogy, it is as if you are annoyed because a French dictionary is not 
teaching you how to speak French :-)


Cheers,
Sarah


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Re: Rant Re Rev Documentation

[Judy Perry]

Well, how about it, folks?

Judy

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005, Timothy Miller wrote:

> Maybe someday, many dictionary terms could be linked with mini-stacks
> that actually demonstrate the use of the command, property, function,
> object or whatever described in the documentation. These could be
> downloaded by the user at need, or downloaded all in an archive, for
> local retrieval by the documentation stack, as needed. (I assume the
> onboard documentation is a stack.) The mini-stacks could be donated
> by Rev-loyal users.


>
> I just can't understand why Rev hasn't done all of these things
> already. It might be a somewhat daunting task, but it's minuscule
> compared to the trouble it took to build Rev in the first place. If
> it's too much for Rev's overworked staff, they could get 95% of the
> work done for free. All of the items I've mentioned could be
> submitted by users to a wiki. Of course, Rev would need editorial
> control of the wiki to keep out errors and vandalism. Even the
> editorial control of the wiki could be delegated to experienced and
> responsible volunteer users, who could check each other's work, and
> so on. Professional developers could be allowed to place
> self-promotional links in their wiki contributions.

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RE: Deep-mask feature revisited and snapshots

[MisterX]

well, there's plenty of screen grabbers

i tried a utility called SnagIt and it worked fine 
grabbing just the window region as square incl. the background...

you can grab anything you want including videos with that
gem of a program...

cheers
Xavier 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 21:55
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Deep-mask feature revisited and snapshots
> 
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005, "MisterX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > if you try the normal shift-printscreenKey command in 
> windows you will 
> > be able to paste the image...
> >
> > no camera needed!
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> 
> 
> 
> Xavier,
> 
> You are right of course. Only you get a picture of the 
> complete screen,
> 6.5 MB in my case, then you have to start your image program 
> to select and process the area of the screenshot you really 
> need. With a camera screenshot you could select the area in advance.
> 
> On a Mac - with the screenshot program that comes with OSX - 
> you could select an area or window ; I did not yet test if it 
> is able to capture a deep-mask stack.
> 
> Anyway, I would like to know whether this eluding visibility 
> comes as an unavoidable corollary for stacks with the 
> deep-mask feature or if this is a bug.
> 
> Maybe somebody from the Rev team could comment here?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Wilhelm Sanke
> 
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Re: Rant Re Rev Documentation

[Dan Shafer]

Not too far off the mark, Timothy, but a little.

When I started my Rev book "series" the idea was that i would simply  
"port" my HT book to Rev and be done with it. A number of users on  
the list at that time ensured me that if I did that, I'd be doing the  
community a huge service. It seemed like a pretty simple undertaking  
so I jumped in.


Boy, was I wrong. Not only would a port have been impossible (thanks  
in large part to the vastly richer vocabulary and power of Rev) and  
unhelpful, it would have been counter-productive. I couldn't bring  
myself to do that. So I ended up with a HUGE project and what I felt  
was a public commitment to produce it. I dug in and did the best I  
could under the circumstances. A lot of folks have kindly said good  
things about what I did produce and I'm continuing to add to the  
repertoire but it'll never be what's really needed.


As I look back, I think the better course would have been to write an  
intro to Rev and Transcript. As it is, my book is ONLY about  
Transcript, not really about how to build things in Rev. That's a big  
missing piece. I could write it but I just don't know if there's a  
market for it. Frankly, total demand for the first volume was  
surprisingly small (to me, not to Rev, but then they knew the numbers  
and I had to guess).


Maybe what's needed now is a comprehensive dictionary of Transcript  
in hypertext form from the perspective of a developer, but I'm not  
even sure how to start building something like that and feel pretty  
sure I'd end up getting slammed for "regurgitating the docs" if I did.


I'm just about to release my eBooklet on printing. What other  
subjects do people want? Is a thorough overview of the IDE really  
needed at this point? I gave one at RevCon West (well, not thorough;  
not enough time) but not a lot of people seem interested.


Sorry for the ramble/rant. Just trying to figure out what's most  
important to do next, if anything. There are days I think I should  
just shut up and go back to coding.



On Jul 24, 2005, at 7:22 PM, Timothy Miller wrote:

I sometimes wonder why Dan didn't start by writing a comprehensive  
reference. As I think about it, that's probably a no-win  
proposition for an author, because Rev's free onboard documentation  
would be a hard act to follow, even if it's not that good. And as  
soon as Rev improved its onboard documentation, the book would stop  
selling. I'd guess that's Dan's reasoning, but it's only a guess.




~~
Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.revolutionpros.com, Click "My Stuff"



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Re: Rev CGI argumets for ISP

[Dan Shafer]

I misspoke. It is the Debian distro that's at fault, apparently. It  
needs some C lib that isn't included.


dan

On Jul 24, 2005, at 8:16 PM, Thomas McCarthy wrote:




Depends on the distro. FreeBSD, for example, apparently does not  
yet support this




Funny, I just started doing CGI and it was on FreeBSD. No problems!  
I just went to the rev site and got the proper Unix version.


(I did this about 3 weeks ago)
tm

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Re: Rant Re Rev Documentation

[Thomas McGrath III]

Tim, Judy,

To be fair I didn't respond to this part of Tim's request/rant because 
I thought it would be too daunting. It would be nice to have though. I 
always learn best by example. Sarah's stack on serial commands was very 
helpful, also some of the stacks/ideas that I found most helpful were:

window shapes
serial commands
drawer examples
password/encryption
picture sliders/progress bars
gif buttons/animated
geometry hints and help
player and quicktime and video grabber
rotate images
speech recognition and text speaking
application icons
screen saver/backdropper
file path and preferences
tabs and how they work
text manipulation/hypertext
printing/pdfs/export to file
XML/tree view
menus/ pop ups
Unicode (the one thing I have yet to get to work right)
Games/Colliding objects/moving balls
drag and drop- internal and external
Audio/wav/mp3 - recording and playback
Midi
Chat/Email

and Nine Ball has been a great group learning experience.

Maybe if we had a stack format like the ones used in the online 
conference stacks then these could be cleaned up and included???


I started a Speak and Listen stack and would be interested in helping 
where I can.


Tom McGrath


On Jul 25, 2005, at 12:58 AM, Judy Perry wrote:


Well, how about it, folks?

Judy

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005, Timothy Miller wrote:


Maybe someday, many dictionary terms could be linked with mini-stacks
that actually demonstrate the use of the command, property, function,
object or whatever described in the documentation. These could be
downloaded by the user at need, or downloaded all in an archive, for
local retrieval by the documentation stack, as needed. (I assume the
onboard documentation is a stack.) The mini-stacks could be donated
by Rev-loyal users.





I just can't understand why Rev hasn't done all of these things
already. It might be a somewhat daunting task, but it's minuscule
compared to the trouble it took to build Rev in the first place. If
it's too much for Rev's overworked staff, they could get 95% of the
work done for free. All of the items I've mentioned could be
submitted by users to a wiki. Of course, Rev would need editorial
control of the wiki to keep out errors and vandalism. Even the
editorial control of the wiki could be delegated to experienced and
responsible volunteer users, who could check each other's work, and
so on. Professional developers could be allowed to place
self-promotional links in their wiki contributions.


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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.6



Advanced Media Group
Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
Semantic Compaction Systems
Prentke Romich Company
Prentke Romich International
SCIconics, LLC
Artist
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Rant Re Rev Documentation

[Judy Perry]

U, but the problem is that HC shipped with pre-builts, little things
like buttons that did things ordinary users might want to do, and hence
could just copy-paste them into their own work.  Ditto with fields.  Ditto
with other thingies like what to do with QT.  And sample, real, working
applications/stacks.  Oh, and, of course, at some point at least, a manual
WITH AN INDEX!  (contact me off-list if you need an explanation  of WHY
this is IMPORTANT).

Rev has no such beasts.

And, before all the veteran programmers jump on my back for not jumping on
the "programming is hard" bandwagon (it apparently requires oodles and
oodles of time, even for a language like Transcript, just so you can
figure out how to do a simple thing like an interactive slideshow), we
should note that the ACM literature is, well, littered, with research
showing that newbie/novice programmers benefit from having such
'manipulatives' as working code fragments that can be tried and fiddled
with to learn programming concepts.

Even Dan, for all his effort, still talks about the Hypercard model and
the 'seductive' factor for what I think he calls the 'inventive user' (my
apologies to Dan if I have gotten this wrong).

But, you know, even inventive users will only go searching just so
far...and Dan's book, ... the conference stacks, ... the online docs, ...
RevOnline ... etc. etc.  : = This is all too confusing.

IF Rev is to move beyond the 'low-hanging fruit' of the HC abandonment and
the very inventive 'inventive user' of the programming crowd, I, for one,
think a few things need to be realized and dealt with:

(1) the IDE:  for DC, at least, it's too complex, non-intuitive, has no
learning guide, and needs to be reinvented WITH A MANUAL/EXPLANATION OF
HOW TO USE IT.

(2) again, for the DC crowd, but maybe even beyond, THERE NEEDS TO BE AN
IN-THE-BOX SET OF PRE-PROGRAMMED WIDGETS.  Pre-programmed little buttons,
fields, what-have-you's, that already do the sorts of things people ask
how to do all the time on list (even those who are self-described as
'veteral programmers':  HOW TO  SCRIPT TABS comes readily to mind here).
For god's sake, even the entirely non-intuitive Director had such
pre-builts as, what were they called, behaviors?!

(3) for the DC crowd, especially, there needs to be something ala the
scripting conferences, but oriented towards HOW TO DO THIS THING, XYZ.  As
opposed to 'how to learn to program in 6 short months.  Normal humans do
NOT NOT NOT!!! want to learn how to program.  They want to learn how to
do/make things.  A subtle yet important distinction.

Enough for a night after a day at the beach...

Judy


On Mon, 25 Jul
2005, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Hi Tim,
>
> I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure I agree with your
> idea of the what the docs are for. I see them as a reference guide,
> not a tutorial. For learning Revolution, you need other resources:
> the built-in tutorials, the scripting conference stacks, Dan's book,
> this list and the other resources available on the net.

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Re: Rant Re Rev Documentation

[Judy Perry]

Thomas,

But, indeed, when other 'birds of a feather' stay silent, the 'powers that
be' are likely to be (justifiably) convinced that there is no such need
because there was no public conment.

This is why I do not mind looking like the community nay-sayer, unhappy
camper, unfavorable term for a female dog, etc.

I only wish I had a dollar US$ for every person who told me personally or
privately per email that they agreed with what I said.  Number 1: I'd be
rich and could retire.  Number 2:  I'd be able to afford to direct my
minions otherwise ;-)

Some people are afraid of 'looking stupid' (I clearly have no such
hang-ups) and so they say nothing.

But, for every person who says nothing and stays on-list, how many others
have we lost?  for no reason?

What you say, Thomas, below, is what I have just sent off in a related
post to this list, namely, that for some people, we need
compartmentalized, working, examples/tutorials/widgets ala what people
want/expect to be able to do that will hopefully make this product succeed
among the newbie/novice/inventive user category.

Thanks for responding!!!

Judy


On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> Tim, Judy,
>
> To be fair I didn't respond to this part of Tim's request/rant because
> I thought it would be too daunting. It would be nice to have though. I
> always learn best by example. Sarah's stack on serial commands was very
> helpful, also some of the stacks/ideas that I found most helpful were:
> window shapes
> serial commands
> drawer examples
> password/encryption
> picture sliders/progress bars
> gif buttons/animated
> geometry hints and help
> player and quicktime and video grabber
> rotate images
> speech recognition and text speaking
> application icons
> screen saver/backdropper
> file path and preferences
> tabs and how they work
> text manipulation/hypertext
> printing/pdfs/export to file
> XML/tree view
> menus/ pop ups
> Unicode (the one thing I have yet to get to work right)
> Games/Colliding objects/moving balls
> drag and drop- internal and external
> Audio/wav/mp3 - recording and playback
> Midi
> Chat/Email
>
> and Nine Ball has been a great group learning experience.
>
> Maybe if we had a stack format like the ones used in the online
> conference stacks then these could be cleaned up and included???

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URL path to Windows server?

[keith]

If I use the 'get URL' and 'put x into URL' command to get and put 
data from and into a file:path/data.txt file... how do I do that when 
the data is to be held on a network server? This'll be a Windows 
server; in one instance a steam-driven Win98 thing, in the other 
instance something far more up to date.


I don't have one to play with right now, and I'd rather avoid ending 
up thrashing about experimenting too much when I can get to one. But 
I'm worried about how to handle access permissions to the file. This 
is one of the ways recommended for handling (basic) multiple-person 
access to a data source file, and it makes lots of sense in most ways 
- but I can't see how to build in the username/password fileserver 
access aspect.


k
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Re: # PROBABLY SPAM #::URL path to Windows server?

[xbury . cs]

K

all you need is to mount the drive and copy.

use the "net use" command. It has all the parameters you speak of.
(type "net help use" for instructions on how to use it)

Another way, assuming you have administrator priviledges is to use
a simple shell copy command...

the put url will only work with case 1...

cheers
X

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 25.07.2005 08:48:50:

> If I use the 'get URL' and 'put x into URL' command to get and put 
> data from and into a file:path/data.txt file... how do I do that when 
> the data is to be held on a network server? This'll be a Windows 
> server; in one instance a steam-driven Win98 thing, in the other 
> instance something far more up to date.
> 
> I don't have one to play with right now, and I'd rather avoid ending 
> up thrashing about experimenting too much when I can get to one. But 
> I'm worried about how to handle access permissions to the file. This 
> is one of the ways recommended for handling (basic) multiple-person 
> access to a data source file, and it makes lots of sense in most ways 
> - but I can't see how to build in the username/password fileserver 
> access aspect.
> 
> k
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END OF DISCLAIMER
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