date:20051211


Now available on RevOnline
user: Mark Smith
category: General
stack:FuturesDownloader

Fairly widgety, but I have to get that reflective glass thing  
happening...


Mark
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revDataFromQuery and SQL

2005-12-11 Thread Adam


Hi All:

Terribly frustrated at the moment.  I'm stepping through the code of my 
stack and I have a call to revDataFromQuery that uses the following SQL:


put revDataFromQuery(,,myDB,"SELECT * FROM table LIMIT :1,1", "myCount") 
into myResult


What I want to be able to do is call up a specific row, limiting that 
selection to one row.


myCount contain the number of the row I want to call up.
But I get a nasty SQL error.  Can you not put limit clauses into 
revDataFromQuery statments?


The reason I am doing all this is because I am looping through millions 
of records and it is just to memory hungry to call all the records into 
a record set, so I have loop set up that executes the above statment and 
manipulates the myResult variable accordingly before increasing myCount 
and starting the loop over.


TVKIA,
Adam
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Re: Hidden Top layer objects "eat" the cursor

2005-12-11 Thread Scott Rossi

Recently, Sivakatirswami wrote:

> Well, I think we all know the recipe for this
> 
> 1) make a field.
> 2) Create a PNG image file of a big photo
> 3) put that image on a layer above the field
> 4) hide the image.
> 5) You cannot get the cursor to appear in the field... even if you
> passMouseup thru the hidden image.

Hmm.  I just tried it with both a PNG and JPEG (to make sure it wasn't a
format thing) and I can click within the field and open it for editing as
expected.  You're not seeing this?

Did you try this in a new, untouched stack?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Magic Stocking


A magic stocking with a gift for you.

Conception Time: Photoshop < 12 minutes. Revolution < 45 minutes.  
Difficulty Advanced (Moveable window, WindowShape, visible, change of  
format for dates- c/o Marielle Lange)


Access by:
revOnline, users, mcgrath3, Magic Stocking
revOnline, categories, games, Magic Stocking

Enjoy,

Tom




Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Semantic Compaction Systems
SCIconics, LLC

Lazy River Metal Arts
Lazy River Software™
&
Meeting Wear™ - Unique Apparel Design






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Re: Christmas e-cards as learning tools

To be both snottily pedantic and a little cruel, it might have been a  
bit more christmassy if it suggested clicking on the 'garland' rather  
than the 'wreath'!


Though given my attitude towards christmas

:)

Mark

On 11 Dec 2005, at 19:25, Mark Swindell wrote:

Here's a card done with Flash which my wife thought darling.  Could  
it be accomplished in Rev? How close could you get?

-Mark

http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=0212320003



On Dec 11, 2005, at 10:58 AM, Marielle Lange wrote:

I gave a go to a very simple christmas ecard. It shows the usage  
of the revspeak command (to speak out a text).

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Hidden Top layer objects "eat" the cursor

2005-12-11 Thread Sivakatirswami


Well, I think we all know the recipe for this

1) make a field.
2) Create a PNG image file of a big photo
3) put that image on a layer above the field
4) hide the image.
5) You cannot get the cursor to appear in the field... even if you  
passMouseup thru the hidden image.


a) is there a solution? other than temporary relayer to sent the  
image to the back while editing the field, which of course works, but  
then if you "show image" it appears in the back, when the intent is  
for it to cover the fields...workaround being to dynamically relayer  
the objects on hide and show by script, but this is a hack...


b) if there is no solution, is this a bug? or shall we consider it  
expected behavior... one might think so, since, in fact, there is an  
object on top of the field, albeit, hidden.


If it  is not deemed a bug, then we need to set a feature request:  
hidden object do not eat the cursor...I check all bugs in Bugzilla  
relating to Cursor and didn't see this issue on the list of 29 bugs  
relating to cursor behavior


Sivakatirswami




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Re: Embedding images and movies in a standalone

2005-12-11 Thread Sivakatirswami

I would confirm this old windows bug... here's another way to state  
this case:


 if your installer puts your main app on "top" of the  CD's   
"desktop" (CD root) and a folder with media next to it and you burn  
this to CD, then there's a very good chance that the primary  
"relative path" script you normally put in a preopenstack hander


global gPathStem

on preopenstack

put the filename of this stack into "gPathStem"

end preopenstck

##and refs to media in buttons like:

on mouseup
set the filename of player 1 to (gtPathStem & \
"/media_folder/movies/someMovie.mov"
start player 1
end mouseup

WILL NOT WORK on some windows machines... it *does* work on the Mac.

Try putting the main app and the media folder inside another folder  
and burn this... down side is only that the user must click once on  
the folder and then again on your main app icon... but then the same  
script as noted above does work...whether run from CD or if the whole  
folder is copied to the hard drive... if that does not work for you,  
then you know you hit the above mentioned bug in your first  
architecture. It's tricky because if your user is virgo (very  
organized) and he copies the contents of the CD to some new folder he  
created, then it *will* work... but you don't have control over  
that... lot's of users will try to run it straight off the CD, if you  
have no installation set up...and then it's very likely to fail...  
not sure if this bug still pertains to latest Windows versions or  
not. Note... it's not a Rev problem ( I had a certified windows  
"repair man" breaking his head on this same problem with some other  
window programs and applications...we only here serendipitously  
discovered the solution... about 5 years ago...)


Sivakatirswami









On Dec 10, 2005, at 10:24 AM, Mathewson wrote:


If you are developing on a Mac a way round this problem is
to make a disk image using Disk Tools (probably the
sensible idea is to make it the same size as the media you
intend to burn it to: DVD/CD) - make sure the image is
Read/Write: mount it on the desktop and do all your
development INSIDE IT.

This means that all your files paths will point inside the
disk - so where-ever the disk goes the paths SHOULD (Hm ?)
stay the same and behave themselves.

In this way you don't have to embed all your media - and
find that your target computers grind to a halt as they
don't have the RAM to cope with loading EVERYTHING (!!)
at once.

Another way to cope with this is to load media into
individual substacks which end up in a 'data' file when you
build your standalone (again - best to develop inside a
disk image) and can be loaded and unloaded from RAM as
required.

sincerely, Richmond
__
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
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Re: tab buttons and localisation

2005-12-11 Thread Jeanne A. E. DeVoto


At 10:56 AM -0500 12/11/2005, Bob Hutchison wrote:

on menuPick pNew,pOld
  get the properties of me
  put it["text"] into labels


You can do it that way, but it's easier to just
   put the text of me into labels

(In general, the text property of a menu - and tabs are menus - 
contains the list of choices for the menu.)

--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
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Re: Christmas e-cards as learning tools

2005-12-11 Thread Scott Rossi

Recently, Mark Swindell wrote:

> Here's a card done with Flash which my wife thought darling.  Could
> it be accomplished in Rev? How close could you get?
> -Mark
> 
> http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=0212320003

IMO, I think it's possible, but I think it's more labor to get it to work in
Rev than in Flash, and I'm not sure the filesize would weigh in as low as
the Flash file.  But it is definitely possible.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: Sockets


This time I'll try to be more helpful.

On 11 Dec 2005, at 21:34, Graham Samuel wrote:


Sockets, do we need them


If you just need to connect to internet URLs, you can use the get  
URL, load URL, etc, calls, and not have to know anything about  
sockets. But if you want to do something more fancy, such as build  
your own web server, mail client, or completely new internet protocol  
(see below), then you probably need to know a little. (But I can tell  
you from my involvement with libUrl, you don't really need to know  
that much, at least if you're doing these kind of things in Rev.)


and is the term just a token or does it carry some metaphorical  
meaning?


Both of those I guess. The term "socket" is not just a Rev  
expression, but is used in all computer development environments. A  
"socket" is part of the connection that computers use to communicate  
with each other on TCP/IP networks such as the internet and on  
intranets too.


The following description/analogy may not be strictly accurate, but  
I've found it quite helpful.


Remember those old-fashioned telephone switchbords where the operator  
stuck wires into various holes on the board. Well, imagine your  
computer has a similar board inside with a lot of holes numbered from  
1 to 65000 or thereabouts. And the computer you want to connect to  
(for example, the computer that hosts www.runrev.com) has a similar  
set of holes. To connect your computer to the runrev computer, you  
can imagine connecting a wire in one of the 65000 holes in your  
computer and connecting it one of the holes in the RunRev computer.  
The "sockets" are the endpoints of the connection. However, with Rev,  
we don't really need to think about the endpoints too much, and it is  
often easier just to think about the connection itself. However, much  
as I'd prefer to script this:


  open connection to www.runrev.com

you have to script this:

  open socket to www.runrev.com #(not quite correct, but see later)

Now remember those 65000 or so holes on the board in your computer,  
and the other 65000 holes on the renRev computer. Well those holes  
are called "ports", which is easy enough to understand. So are  
sockets and ports the same? Not exactly as you can open many sockets  
to a single port (Many wires to one hole). But from a Rev  
perspective, they're pretty similar.


Unfortunately, when you want to connect to the runrev computer, you  
can't just connect to any old port (numbered hole) on the runrev  
computer. Many of the ports have specific functions, and you have to  
connect to the right one. For example, if there is a web server   
running on the runrev computer, it is most likely "linked" to port  
(hole) number 80, as that's the default for web servers.


So when you do something like this:

  get url "http://www.runrev.com/index.html";

libUrl assumes that the htpp server is running on port 80, and so  
does the following as part of its stuff:


open socket to "www.runrev.com:80"

(You *must* include the port number when you open a socket, which is  
why the example earlier was wrong.)


OK. So once you open a socket, what do you do? Well, you write data  
to the socket, and read data from it. (That's about all you can do.)  
If your connecting to a "standard" server such as a web server, mail  
server, or ftp server, there are "protocols" which dictate exactly  
what you have to write and read. These protocols are described in  
documents called RFCs which are no fun to read but will help send you  
to sleep when you're on a long flight. (Threaten the kids with one  
for Christmas!)


So rather than wrestling with an established protocol, it's probably  
easier to learn sockets by inventing a brand new protocol. (Really.)  
But to do this, you have to build the server part of the connection  
too. However, this is amazingly easy. The key syntax to running a  
server, is the following script:


  accept connections on port  with message 

But if you want to see how simple this can be to get started, you can  
try running the following "client" script. I have a Rev "server"  
running here right now  that implements a simple protocol I invented  
while writing this mail. :-)


To run the client, you need to make a stack with two fields and one  
button. Name the fields "in" and "out". Put some text in field  
"in" (keep it below 10K to save my bandwidth). Put the following  
script in the button:


on mouseUp
  put "193.109.51.205:8081" into tS
  open socket to tS with message "connected"
end mouseUp

on connected pS
  put field "in" into tData
##uncomment following line to see server script
## write "script" & cr to socket pS
  write length(tData) & cr to socket pS

  write tData to socket pS with message "readLineOne"
end connected

on readLineOne pS
  read from socket pS for one line with message "readmore"
end readLineOne

on readmore pS, pData
  if word 1 of pData is a integer then
repeat until length(tRD) >= word 1 of pData

Re: Handler/Function with same name


Do they not do the same thing?
I see that the handler modifies the string passed to it, while the  
function
returns a similarly modified copy of the string passed to it, but  
that was

the point of it.
Or am I missing something?

Cheers,

Mark

On 11 Dec 2005, at 23:49, Mark Wieder wrote:


Ken-

Sunday, December 11, 2005, 1:05:34 PM, you wrote:


Those are both functions, though, not one function and one handler.


Word. And now that I reread Mark's original post, I see that his
function and command don't do the same thing at all. I *do* see that
as dangerous.

--
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: discussions,opinions and religion - may be we need 2 lists?

Judy Perry wrote:
>>R,
>>
>>Is that not what the 'Improve-Revolution' list is for?
>

No.  That's limited to people with the high-priced licenses.

And that list is for discussing specific features.

But the new list dedicated to discussing business strategy is open to 
everyone:

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Sockets

2005-12-11 Thread Andre Garzia


BvG,


Also, to become a member of the House Of The Sockets And Ports, one  
should learn the


write to socket
read from socket

commands. I'll publish a little draft today on sockets. The Socket  
Society meets on ChatRev... :-p


cheers
andre

On Dec 11, 2005, at 2:49 PM, Björnke von Gierke wrote:



On Dec 11 2005, at 17:32, Jim Hurley wrote:


...
Searched the dictionary for "socket" and came up with the single  
"Using URLs, uploading, and downloading", 18 pages (copied to  
Word) which don't  appear to contain the word "socket."


Is there a secret RR society which is privy to this sort of thing?  
Can I join? Sock it to me.

...


Of course there is a secret Socket society! But it's easy to join:
Our required readings are:

Open Socket command
Close Socket command
Accept command

If these don't help you, then you need to ask either on the use  
list or in chatrev :)


socket society member
Björnke


--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.bjoernke.com

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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Re: discussions,opinions and religion - may be we need 2 lists?

2005-12-11 Thread Judy Perry

No.  That's limited to people with the high-priced licenses.

Judy

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> R,
>
> Is that not what the 'Improve-Revolution' list is for?

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Re: Handler/Function with same name

Ken-

Sunday, December 11, 2005, 1:05:34 PM, you wrote:

> Those are both functions, though, not one function and one handler.

Word. And now that I reread Mark's original post, I see that his
function and command don't do the same thing at all. I *do* see that
as dangerous.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Sockets

Graham Samuel wrote:

:-)

Sockets, do we need them and is the term just a token or does it
carry some metaphorical meaning?

It does carry some meaning - the idea was that you could "plug together"
different programs. You make "connections" between "sockets"

And that great forest of non-mnemonic clusters of letters like say
DHCP - just look at the Network Control Panel on a Mac or PC and
despair... I've tried to read my way into the subject, but it hasn't
helped me much. For example, I noticed the following in the RR
documentation for 'OpenSockets':

DHCP - Dynamic Host Config ProtocolCan't think of a more mnemonic
acronym for it.

For technical information about the numbers used to designate
standard ports, see the list of port numbers at www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers>, in particular the section
titled "Well Known Port Numbers".

Following that link led to something surreal as far as I could see:
what are all those individuals doing in there? And who or what is
IANA? OK, I know I'm out of my depth.

IANA is the co-ordinating body for various numbers (protocol number,
port numbers, etc.)

If you need, e.g. a port to be assigned, you need to apply to IANA, with
a description of why you need a port, what it will be used for, where
the appropriate documents can be found, etc. (the process is much more
rigorous nowadays than it used to be). The individuals listed along with
*some* of the assigned ports are the individuals who sent in the
application.

Let's hope Andre can help us (on sockets, not the other stuff).

--
Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net

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RE: Why is Konfabulator 'Pretty?'

2005-12-11 Thread Scott Kane

Al,

Any chance of reposting the links?  Seems the
list frisked out the hyper links again...

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> capellan (sent by Nabble.com)
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 4:07 AM
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: Why is Konfabulator 'Pretty?'
> 
> 
> 
> Marielle Lange wrote:
> 
> > Dreamcard is presented as something that "persons
> > with lack of experience with other development environments"
> > can come to grip with. Apparently, it doesn't work that well. 
> > Beginners often complain on this list or elswhere 
> > (see , 
> > a mailing list for dreamcard users or beginners in general) about 
> > the fact that it is not that easy to get 
> > to grip with this new environment.
> 
> That's because this gap that you are noticing
> was filled long time ago by a lot of HyperCard books.
> 
> 
> In January i asked in this list: 
> WHY don't we ask to the 212 authors of HyperCard 
> books to update their books for this platform?... 
> 
> and
> WHY do not ask developers in this list to collaborate
> in writing a book on RunRev?
> 
> 
> Actually, some newbie developers find these HyperCard books 
> very useful to help them started with Transcript:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and many more...
> 
> even Dan Shafer, the first RunRev specific book author recommend them:
> 
> 
> and guess what... These same HyperTalk books, are part of the 
> bookshelf of most Professional Developers in this list. Even 
> SuperCard developers use them...Interesting. Don't you think?
> 
> Scott Raney recommended to buy the XCMD's book written for 
> HyperCard...so
> 
> What's next?
> 
> Buy these books and adapt them to your needs.
> 
> i had buy this book written by Gary Bond about xcmd programming:
> 
> 
> Just US$ 1.08 from Hippo Books.
> i receive it next week. :-)
> 
> Want to buy this too:
> Applied HyperCard: Developing and Marketing Superior 
> Stackware by Jerry Daniels, Mary Jane Mara
> 
> 
> al
> --
> Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com: 
http://www.nabble.com/Why-isn%27t-Rev-more-popular--t649860.html#a189261
9
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Re: iTunes for windows


Scott Rossi wrote:


Recently, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
 


I have a project that involves iTunes. I want to extract locally a
users playlists and song/podcast list from their computer and do some
things in Rev. I then want to put/import some content back into iTunes.

I figure I can use Applescript on the Mac but I don't know about
iTunes for Windows. Is anyone familiar with doing things like this on
Windows?
   



 


I've done a little bit of iTunes control on Windows (see below).


What are the options available? On the extraction side can I use an
output from iTunes? Is there an XML file etc.?

On the importing side is it acceptable to just ask the user to drop/
import a folder into iTunes from my output? Or is there a way to send
a command to iTunes to tell it to do the import?

I am just starting this project and any and all help or input is
greatly appreciated.
   



As Sims suggested, you might be able to parse an XML file to get what you
need.  If you're looking to *talk* to iTunes, you need to use COM, according
to Apple.  An SDK is here:
http://developer.apple.com/sdk/itunescomsdk.html

If you build an external, please let me know.  I've been interested in this
for months.

 


If you use the COM SDK, you can (obviously) write an external in C/C++
Alternatively, you can access it through a scripting language which 
provides a COM interface, such as Javascript or (more interestingly, for 
me) Python; you could then build either a command line utility or 
socket-driven utility to provide Rev access to iTunes.


I'd be up for collaborating on a Python-based server combined with Rev 
library to interface to it.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net

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RE: RE: MIDI Files

2005-12-11 Thread Scott Kane

Thanks, Al!!  :-)

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> capellan (sent by Nabble.com)
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 5:21 AM
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: Re: RE: MIDI Files
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> Looks like the URL's posted were 
> hidden somehow. Let's try again:
> 
> you could visit Hugh Senior's website: 
> _http://www.flexiblelearning.com/xtalk.htm_
> _http://www.flexiblelearning.com/xtalk/mci_in_3_steps/mcisends
> tring3steps.htm_
> 
> and download the file: 
> _http://www.flexiblelearning.com/xtalk/mci_in_3_steps/mciMIDI.zip_
> 
> UDI, an extraordinary japanese programmer,
> published many stacks to play Midi files using
> notation similar to HyperCard. 
> _http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/tool.html_
> 
> al
> --
> Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com: 
http://www.nabble.com/MIDI-Files-t718204.html#a1893361
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Re: Why did HyperCard wither away? [was: Re: Why is Konfabulator 'Pretty?']

2005-12-11 Thread Stephen Barncard


Jean-Louis Gasse

 as with the original HC, Apple management didn't get it...with one 
exception: the person who preceeded Jobs' second coming.  It's been 
too long for me to remember his name


Gil Amillio (?; sp?)

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

Vive R Revolution!


--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
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Re: Sockets

2005-12-11 Thread Graham Samuel

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 08:32:55 -0800, Jim Hurley
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Now all I need to do is find out was a socket is. I know it must have
something to do with light bulbs.

Searched the dictionary for "socket" and came up with the single
"Using URLs, uploading, and downloading", 18 pages (copied to Word)
which don't appear to contain the word "socket."

Is there a secret RR society which is privy to this sort of thing?
Can I join? Sock it to me.

I can't answer the question but I would very much like to be around
when it is answered. When I was younger (**much** younger), I used to
kind of absorb technical stuff without consciously learning about it,
but nowadays stuff suddenly comes up and bites me in the rear and I
wonder where it came from: for me, XML is like that, and so is most
Internet stuff. Sockets, do we need them and is the term just a token
or does it carry some metaphorical meaning? And that great forest of
non-mnemonic clusters of letters like say DHCP - just look at the
Network Control Panel on a Mac or PC and despair... I've tried to
read my way into the subject, but it hasn't helped me much. For
example, I noticed the following in the RR documentation for
'OpenSockets':

Following that link led to something surreal as far as I could see:
what are all those individuals doing in there? And who or what is
IANA? OK, I know I'm out of my depth.

Let's hope Andre can help us (on sockets, not the other stuff).

Graham

---

Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France

Re: How do i check for an internet connection?


Dave Cragg wrote:



On 11 Dec 2005, at 19:16, Alex Tweedly wrote:



Sorry - was I sounding like a broken record ? And a negative one at  
that :-(



Not at all. I really appreciate it. I think many of us are now having  
to or wanting to deliver things that have to work in various  
networked settings, and we can get carried away with our little bits  
of knowledge. Although I  know something about things such as http  
and ftp protocols, I'm fairly ignorant about many aspects of  
networking.  I'm glad for any pointers  I can get (especially  
pointers to pitfalls).



Phew !
Thanks Dave - I was concerned that I was coming over as too negative too 
often on this topic.




I have nothing very practical in mind. But it's nice to store away  
these snippets of code with an accurate description of what they do.




(note you can have a "network connection" with nothing but a  
successful link status - i.e. a hub or switch, there is no  certainty 
that any other computer is connected; I don't see how  that is 
sufficient for anything).



Well, in a company setting, and the sales person has returned to the  
office from the road with his/her laptop, and has forgotten to plug  
it into the company network when he/she starts an app that requires a  
network connection... I guess it could perhaps give a better  
description of the problem than "invalid host address". (Just  
thinking aloud here.)


I think that getting a negative result back from the test gives you the 
possibility of a better (and perhaps sooner) error message. I'll give 
some thought to how reliable that might be - but off the cuff, it seems 
safe to assume that if this test for network fails, then you really do 
have no network connection.


But in general, getting a positive result from the test gives you 
effectively nothing.


- even if there is a network connection,  there may be no internet 
connection
 (or in your case,  there may be no connectivity to the 
required part of the corporate network)
- even if there is an internet connection, the part of the net you want 
may not be reachable

-even if it is, the server may not be up and running
- even if it is, the service (e.g. http) you want may not be up
- even if it is, it may not accept your connection
- even if it does, the file you want may be unavailable
- even if ..

And even if the internet connection is up, and the first request is 
satisfied, it may then die / become unreachable before, or during, a 
subsequent request.


Bottom line : if you want to write a robust networked application, it 
should never do any blocking operation, should alway be prepared for 
errors (or delays) and should gracefully continue with other operations 
or user interactions in parallel with any attempted network operation.


And if you do all that anyway, then the initial test was unnecessary :-)

The exception might be, as you suggest, to give a better, quicker error 
response in some cases; whether that is worth the risk of unreliable or 
misleading error messages is up to the author of each app.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Re: Handler/Function with same name

2005-12-11 Thread Ken Ray

On 12/11/05 3:02 PM, "Mark Wieder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mark-
> 
> Sunday, December 11, 2005, 10:12:17 AM, you wrote:
> 
>> But I wonder if anyone knows of a good reason why one shouldn't have
>> a function and a handler with the same name?
> 
> There are several builtin commands/functions that work the same way.
> 
> get openStacks()
> get the openStacks

Those are both functions, though, not one function and one handler.


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Handler/Function with same name

Mark-

Sunday, December 11, 2005, 10:12:17 AM, you wrote:

> But I wonder if anyone knows of a good reason why one shouldn't have
> a function and a handler with the same name?

There are several builtin commands/functions that work the same way.

get openStacks()
get the openStacks

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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New Christmas ecard

2005-12-11 Thread Marielle Lange


A konfabulator-like widget to count the days till christmas

Conception Time: Photoshop > 30 minutes. Revolution < 5 minutes.  
Difficulty medium (change of format for dates, access to items).  
Illustrates how to compute the number of days between two dates (same  
month, same year). Check out the card script for the 5 lines of code  
behind this stack.


Access by any of these means:
- go url "http://revolution.lexicall.org/tutorials/ecards/ 
christmas_counter.rev"

- right click at: http://revolution.lexicall.org/tutorials/ecards/
- revOnline, users, marielle, christmas counter
- revOnline, categories, education, christmas counter
- education gallery, in the new widgets_ecards section at http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org/stacks_education.php


The "konfab-like" interface was done by following the photohop  
tutorial at: 


The santaclaus image comes from:


Enjoy,
Marielle

 


Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/

Easy access to lexical databaseshttp://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists  http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org/wiki



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Re: Christmas e-cards as learning tools



On 11 Dec 2005, at 19:25, Mark Swindell wrote:

Here's a card done with Flash which my wife thought darling.  Could  
it be accomplished in Rev? How close could you get?


Easy. Create a Player object and set it's filename to the following:

  http://ak.jacquielawson.com/cardswf/XS01EN3.swf

Or is that cheating? :-)

Cheers
Dave
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Re: iTunes for windows


My dear Scott,

Thanks, I just reposted for more info. I do need a windows solution  
if at all possible.


I am going to look into the XML file and what I can do with it. Also  
your stack looks interesting and I will play with it later. Looks  
good though.


Right now I would very much like to 'talk" to iTunes from both  
windows and the mac. But on the mac side it seems very doable, it is  
the windows side I am concerned about.


This project seems like I could do any number of things with it. I  
nee to grasp what is actually doable at this point but an external  
would be great. I am looking into it. So many people (on the mac  
side) have written co-apps to go along with iTunes that the item in  
question may already be out there.


This is my project so I will be sharing what ever I find with the list.

Thanks again,

Tom

On Dec 11, 2005, at 2:20 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:


Recently, Thomas McGrath III wrote:


I have a project that involves iTunes. I want to extract locally a
users playlists and song/podcast list from their computer and do some
things in Rev. I then want to put/import some content back into  
iTunes.


I figure I can use Applescript on the Mac but I don't know about
iTunes for Windows. Is anyone familiar with doing things like this on
Windows?


You might be interested in this library for the Mac side:
http://www.tactilemedia.com/conductor/

But if you're only using a few functions and are comfortable with
AppleScript than it may be overkill for your needs.



What are the options available? On the extraction side can I use an
output from iTunes? Is there an XML file etc.?

On the importing side is it acceptable to just ask the user to drop/
import a folder into iTunes from my output? Or is there a way to send
a command to iTunes to tell it to do the import?

I am just starting this project and any and all help or input is
greatly appreciated.


As Sims suggested, you might be able to parse an XML file to get  
what you
need.  If you're looking to *talk* to iTunes, you need to use COM,  
according

to Apple.  An SDK is here:
http://developer.apple.com/sdk/itunescomsdk.html

If you build an external, please let me know.  I've been interested  
in this

for months.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Semantic Compaction Systems
SCIconics, LLC

Lazy River Metal Arts
Lazy River Software™
&
Meeting Wear™ - Unique Apparel Design






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Re: Sockets



On 11 Dec 2005, at 16:49, Björnke von Gierke wrote:


Of course there is a secret Socket society! But it's easy to join:
Our required readings are:

Open Socket command
Close Socket command
Accept command

If these don't help you, then you need to ask either on the use  
list or in chatrev :)



You forgot to mention the secret handshake. :-)

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Re: How do i check for an internet connection?



On 11 Dec 2005, at 19:16, Alex Tweedly wrote:


Sorry - was I sounding like a broken record ? And a negative one at  
that :-(


Not at all. I really appreciate it. I think many of us are now having  
to or wanting to deliver things that have to work in various  
networked settings, and we can get carried away with our little bits  
of knowledge. Although I  know something about things such as http  
and ftp protocols, I'm fairly ignorant about many aspects of  
networking.  I'm glad for any pointers  I can get (especially  
pointers to pitfalls).



Can the testForConnection function be assumed reliable for  
detecting  a network connection of some sort, not necessarily the  
internet?


yes


I  guess there are times when this might be sufficient.

I can't think of any circumstance that it is sufficient for  
anything meaningful.

If there is something it helps with, I'd be happy to hear about it.


I have nothing very practical in mind. But it's nice to store away  
these snippets of code with an accurate description of what they do.




(note you can have a "network connection" with nothing but a  
successful link status - i.e. a hub or switch, there is no  
certainty that any other computer is connected; I don't see how  
that is sufficient for anything).


Well, in a company setting, and the sales person has returned to the  
office from the road with his/her laptop, and has forgotten to plug  
it into the company network when he/she starts an app that requires a  
network connection... I guess it could perhaps give a better  
description of the problem than "invalid host address". (Just  
thinking aloud here.)


Cheers
Dave



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Christmas e-cards as learning tools

That looks rather straightforward to me:

all the animations could consist of either animated GIFs,
or, preferably, embedded Quicktime Movies,

the movies could then be triggered by invisible buttons:

on mouseUp
  play videoClip "DogWagsTail.mov" at 200,260
end mouseUp

those 2 numbers separated by a comma let the program know
where to display the movie as it is played.

the only small problem is that QT movies vanish away after
they have played (correct me here, someone) so you would
want to make images of the last frame of each QT movie
become visible when that movie finished playing:

you can do this by having all your images of the end frames
"piled-up" on the card in your stack with their VISIBLE
qualities set to FALSE:

e.g:

on openStack
  set the visible of image "WoofyThing" to false
end openStack

(by the way - especially for lazy chaps like me RR lets us
type "VIS" and "IMG" instead of "VISIBLE" and "IMAGE")

sincerely, Richmond
__
See Mathewson's software at:

http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
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For All Your Mac Gear
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Rev Dinner in Portland - Wednesday

This coming Wednesday, Dec, 14, I'll be in Portland, Oregon, visiting a 
client site with Paul Looney.  That evening we're having dinner with Rev 
notables Jeanne DeVoto, Phil Davis, and possibly Brian Thomas.


If any of you are in Portland and would like to share a meal and some 
Rev chat this Wednesday, please send me an email and once we determine 
the restaurant we'll let you know.


Looking forward to see you then -

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
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Re: Christmas e-cards as learning tools

2005-12-11 Thread Mark Swindell

Here's a card done with Flash which my wife thought darling.  Could  
it be accomplished in Rev? How close could you get?

-Mark

http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=0212320003



On Dec 11, 2005, at 10:58 AM, Marielle Lange wrote:

I gave a go to a very simple christmas ecard. It shows the usage of  
the revspeak command (to speak out a text).

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Re: iTunes for windows


Does anyone have any input on this???

Tom
On Dec 11, 2005, at 10:38 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

I have a project that involves iTunes. I want to extract locally a  
users playlists and song/podcast list from their computer and do  
some things in Rev. I then want to put/import some content back  
into iTunes.


I figure I can use Applescript on the Mac but I don't know about  
iTunes for Windows. Is anyone familiar with doing things like this  
on Windows?


What are the options available? On the extraction side can I use an  
output from iTunes? Is there an XML file etc.?


On the importing side is it acceptable to just ask the user to drop/ 
import a folder into iTunes from my output? Or is there a way to  
send a command to iTunes to tell it to do the import?


I am just starting this project and any and all help or input is  
greatly appreciated.


Yours truly,

Tom McGrath



Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Semantic Compaction Systems
SCIconics, LLC

Lazy River Metal Arts
Lazy River Software™
&
Meeting Wear™ - Unique Apparel Design






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Re: iTunes for windows

2005-12-11 Thread Scott Rossi

Recently, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> I have a project that involves iTunes. I want to extract locally a
> users playlists and song/podcast list from their computer and do some
> things in Rev. I then want to put/import some content back into iTunes.
> 
> I figure I can use Applescript on the Mac but I don't know about
> iTunes for Windows. Is anyone familiar with doing things like this on
> Windows?

You might be interested in this library for the Mac side:
http://www.tactilemedia.com/conductor/

But if you're only using a few functions and are comfortable with
AppleScript than it may be overkill for your needs.


> What are the options available? On the extraction side can I use an
> output from iTunes? Is there an XML file etc.?
> 
> On the importing side is it acceptable to just ask the user to drop/
> import a folder into iTunes from my output? Or is there a way to send
> a command to iTunes to tell it to do the import?
> 
> I am just starting this project and any and all help or input is
> greatly appreciated.

As Sims suggested, you might be able to parse an XML file to get what you
need.  If you're looking to *talk* to iTunes, you need to use COM, according
to Apple.  An SDK is here:
http://developer.apple.com/sdk/itunescomsdk.html

If you build an external, please let me know.  I've been interested in this
for months.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: How do i check for an internet connection?


Dave Cragg wrote:



Just remember - it often gets the wrong answer on some systems  (e.g. 
mine).
It believes I am always connected, even though about 50% of the  time 
I'm not  - because I have an in-house network (mix of Cat-5  and 
wifi) with an Internet connection which is *not* always connected.



Alex, thanks as always for pointing out the limitations. 


Sorry - was I sounding like a broken record ? And a negative one at that :-(

It's just that if folks use it, and therefore wrongly think they are 
connected, then they (and perhaps I)  get poor results (like Rev 2.5's 
IDE trying to use the RevOnline check, where it would hang for 30-60 
seconds every time I tried to use it - BZ 2117, still open after 14 months).



Can I pick  your knowledge a little further?

Can the testForConnection function be assumed reliable for detecting  
a network connection of some sort, not necessarily the internet? 


yes


I  guess there are times when this might be sufficient.

I can't think of any circumstance that it is sufficient for anything 
meaningful.

If there is something it helps with, I'd be happy to hear about it.

(note you can have a "network connection" with nothing but a successful 
link status - i.e. a hub or switch, there is no certainty that any other 
computer is connected; I don't see how that is sufficient for anything).



--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
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Re: Handler/Function with same name

2005-12-11 Thread Ken Ray

On 12/11/05 12:12 PM, "Mark Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But I wonder if anyone knows of a good reason why one shouldn't have
> a function and a handler with the same name?

Confusion, perhaps? Suppose your 'trim' function did some things that your
'trim' handler didn't... and here it is 6 months later, and you can't
remember which to use...

Plus, you never know if the engine will be updated later to prevent this
from happening for some reason...

Just my 2 cents,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Christmas e-cards as learning tools

2005-12-11 Thread Marielle Lange

I gave a go to a very simple christmas ecard. It shows the usage of  
the revspeak command (to speak out a text).


You can access it with any of these:
- go url "http://revolution.lexicall.org/tutorials/ecards/ 
merrychristmas.rev"

- right click at: http://revolution.lexicall.org/tutorials/ecards/
- RevOnline, users, Marielle, "Merry Christmas 1"
- RevOnline, categories, education, "Merry Christmas 1"

Conception time: 20 minutes (maximum). Degree of difficulty: quite  
easy. I only had time to check on my own machine. Let me know of any  
problem.


To learn how it was done, check out for script at card level, on the  
button with the voices, on the button play. I will add a tutorial  
page on the wiki, very soon.


The "Christmas father" picture comes from "http://www.picto.qc.ca/";,  
category "Fêtes Noël". Images there are 100% free to reuse. Other  
christmas graphics, free of use, are to be found at: www.christmas-graphics.com/>


The "speech balloon" is now available in the "ecards" image gallery  
on the revolution-education wiki website:
http://revolution.lexicall.org/wiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php? 
galleryId=3. I have added a few other pictures, produced by following  
photoshop tutorials (you will find a list of such tutorials at:  
). If you would like to upload other  
pictures there, take contact, it only takes seconds to give you the  
permission to do so (but please, only upload pictures which are clear  
of any copyright restriction).


Looking forward to see your contributions :-D.

Marielle

 


Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/

Easy access to lexical databaseshttp://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists  http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org/wiki





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Re: RE: MIDI Files


Hi Scott,

Looks like the URL's posted were 
hidden somehow. Let's try again:

you could visit Hugh Senior's website:
_http://www.flexiblelearning.com/xtalk.htm_
_http://www.flexiblelearning.com/xtalk/mci_in_3_steps/mcisendstring3steps.htm_

and download the file:
_http://www.flexiblelearning.com/xtalk/mci_in_3_steps/mciMIDI.zip_

UDI, an extraordinary japanese programmer,
published many stacks to play Midi files using
notation similar to HyperCard.
_http://homepage.mac.com/udi/stack/tool.html_

al
--
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com:
http://www.nabble.com/MIDI-Files-t718204.html#a1893361
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Re: tab buttons and localisation

Bob-

Sunday, December 11, 2005, 7:56:14 AM, you wrote:

>get the properties of me
>put it["text"] into labels

Yikes! I had no idea...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Sockets

Björnke-

Sunday, December 11, 2005, 8:49:42 AM, you wrote:

> Of course there is a secret Socket society! But it's easy to join:
> Our required readings are:

> Open Socket command
> Close Socket command
> Accept command

You got off easy. I had to stay after school and read

write to socket
read from socket

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Re: "use-rev" means "using Rev" (was 10,000 other threads)


Andre Garzia wrote:


On Dec 11, 2005, at 3:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


  I am so turned off by the mailing list for RunRev.
  Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just getting too old,
  but that list just seems so full of posturing,
  politics and some serious personal podiums!
  Damn! If I weren't a poet!



Richard,

if you're old, then I am old too... :-)


That wasn't me. That was a newcomer who found this list frustrating, 
posting into another forum.


I look forward to continuing that discussion on the rev-biz list:


and to celebrate using Rev, I'll try to push some talks on Sockets  and 
a little tutorial I am making...


Now there's some use-rev talk we could all use.  Looking forward to it.

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Handler/Function with same name


I have a library stack with some commonly used stuff in it.

I have, in it's script:

on trim @aString
   put word 1 to -1 of aString into aString
end trim

AND:

function trim aString
return word 1 to -1 of aString
end trim

To my surprise, this works perfectly well, so I can do:
trim myString
or:
get trim(myString)

depending on the context as to which is more convenient.

But I wonder if anyone knows of a good reason why one shouldn't have  
a function and a handler with the same name?


Mark
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xcmds

capellan-

Sunday, December 11, 2005, 9:07:14 AM, you wrote:

> i had buy this book written by Gary Bond about xcmd programming:

> Just US$ 1.08 from Hippo Books.
> i receive it next week. :-)

Gary's book was the bible for developing XCMDs, but it won't help much
for runrev external development these days:

1. The interface to external libraries is entirely different. HC
passed and returned a pointer to a structure of parameters; the
runrev/MetaCard engine passes parameters as individual strings and
returns a single parameter.

2. Many of the examples in Gary's book are no longer necessary, as the
functionality has either now become a part of Transcript or the speed
of processing in the engine has now surpassed that of HC to the point
where you don't need the external for speed any more.

3. IIRC the examples use Think C on OS9, and you'd be hard-pressed to
find a copy these days. You can use CodeWarrior, but of course setting
up the projects will be quite different.

4. Again IIRC, most of the examples used Macintosh Toolbox calls which
are only supported on OS9. Of course external libraries probably won't
be cross-platform in any event, but you're going to have to do a lot
of digging to convert the example code into anything useful.

5. A corollary to the above is that many of the "glue" functions deal
with converting between C and Pascal style so that C functions can
talk to the Toolbox routines written with Pascal conventions. These
are no longer necessary unless you're specifically targetting OS9
externals only.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Why did HyperCard wither away? [was: Re: Why is Konfabulator 'Pretty?']

2005-12-11 Thread Rob Cozens



 as with the original HC, Apple management didn't get it...with one 
exception: the person who preceeded Jobs' second coming.  It's been 
too long for me to remember his name


Gil Amillio (?; sp?)

Rob Cozens, CCW
Serendipity Software Company

Vive R Revolution! 


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Re: "use-rev" means "using Rev" (was 10,000 other threads)

2005-12-11 Thread Andre Garzia



On Dec 11, 2005, at 3:13 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


  I am so turned off by the mailing list for RunRev.
  Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just getting too old,
  but that list just seems so full of posturing,
  politics and some serious personal podiums!
  Damn! If I weren't a poet!



Richard,

if you're old, then I am old too... :-)

and to celebrate using Rev, I'll try to push some talks on Sockets  
and a little tutorial I am making...


Cheers
andre
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"use-rev" means "using Rev" (was 10,000 other threads)


Marielle Lange wrote:

Beginners often complain on this list or elswhere (see
,
a mailing list for dreamcard users or beginners in general)


In that forum I found a post titled "What a turn off!":

  I am so turned off by the mailing list for RunRev.
  Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just getting too old,
  but that list just seems so full of posturing,
  politics and some serious personal podiums!
  Damn! If I weren't a poet!

  There's just far too much bs and bantering going
  on on that list, and I'll be honest, I excpected
  it to be far more civil and mature than what I
  have seen since I subscribed.

  One or two replies by myself trying to help out
  went by without even an acknowlegement, or even
  a "piss off!".

  Though what few questions I have asked have been
  answered, but now there's just far too much junk
  flowing through there that I don't even want
  to ask questions.



For the sake of the use-rev list and its readers, please consider moving 
this and related threads to the rv-biz list:




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Re: iTunes for windows


Thanks sims,

I will take a look and see what's in it.

Thanks

Tom

On Dec 11, 2005, at 11:33 AM, sims wrote:


At 10:38 AM -0500 12/11/05, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
I figure I can use Applescript on the Mac but I don't know about  
iTunes for Windows. Is anyone familiar with doing things like this  
on Windows?


What are the options available? On the extraction side can I use  
an output from iTunes? Is there an XML file etc.?


There is an "iTunes Music Library.xml"  for my Tiger OS X  
iTunes...there might be a Windows version

of that same document.  Reading that file might get you somewhere.

ciao,
sims

European Rev Conference  2006
www.techietours.com
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Thomas J McGrath III
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Semantic Compaction Systems
SCIconics, LLC

Lazy River Metal Arts
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&
Meeting Wear™ - Unique Apparel Design






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Re: Why is Konfabulator 'Pretty?'

Marielle Lange wrote:

> Dreamcard is presented as something that "persons
> with lack of experience with other development environments" 
> can come to grip with. Apparently, it doesn't work that well. 
> Beginners often complain on this list or elswhere 
> (see , 
> a mailing list for dreamcard users or beginners in general) about 
> the fact that it is not that easy to get 
> to grip with this new environment.

That's because this gap that you are noticing
was filled long time ago by a lot of HyperCard books.

In January i asked in this list: 
WHY don't we ask to the 212 authors of HyperCard 
books to update their books for this platform?... 

and
WHY do not ask developers in this list to collaborate
in writing a book on RunRev?

Actually, some newbie developers find these HyperCard books very useful
to help them started with Transcript:

and many more...

even Dan Shafer, the first RunRev specific book author recommend them:

and guess what... These same HyperTalk books, are part of the bookshelf
of most Professional Developers in this list.
Even SuperCard developers use them...Interesting. Don't you think?

Scott Raney recommended to buy the XCMD's book written for
HyperCard...so

What's next?

Buy these books and adapt them to your needs.

i had buy this book written by Gary Bond about xcmd programming:

Just US$ 1.08 from Hippo Books.
i receive it next week. :-)

Want to buy this too:
Applied HyperCard: Developing and Marketing Superior Stackware
by Jerry Daniels, Mary Jane Mara

al
--
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http://www.nabble.com/Why-isn%27t-Rev-more-popular--t649860.html#a1892619
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Re: Why is Konfabulator 'Pretty?'


I've replied to this on the rev-biz list:


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Re: Sockets

2005-12-11 Thread Björnke von Gierke



On Dec 11 2005, at 17:32, Jim Hurley wrote:


...
Searched the dictionary for "socket" and came up with the single 
"Using URLs, uploading, and downloading", 18 pages (copied to Word) 
which don't  appear to contain the word "socket."


Is there a secret RR society which is privy to this sort of thing? Can 
I join? Sock it to me.

...


Of course there is a secret Socket society! But it's easy to join:
Our required readings are:

Open Socket command
Close Socket command
Accept command

If these don't help you, then you need to ask either on the use list or 
in chatrev :)


socket society member
Björnke


--

official ChatRev page:
http://chatrev.bjoernke.com

Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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Re: discussions,opinions and religion - may be we need 2 lists?

2005-12-11 Thread Eric Chatonet


Hi Richard,

Thanks for creating this list.

Le 11 déc. 05 à 17:40, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
I look forward to seeing business philosophy discussions move  
there, and seeing the use-rev list return to being about using Rev.


I agree: back to work, please :-)

Best Regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet
 
--

http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/


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Re: Why did HyperCard wither away? [was: Re: Why is Konfabulator 'Pretty?']

2005-12-11 Thread Rob Cozens


Jack, Bill, et al:

Can anybody pick it up when hypercard went back to apple and we were 
supposed to have version 3.0?


[snip]



  I guess I assumed the leadership at Apple controlled the 
robustness and goals of the teams involved in product development, 
even at Claris. The HyperCard team apparently lacked in both areas.


With all due respect for the view of insiders at Claris, don't blame 
the HyperCard team(s) for it's failure--look directly to Steve Jobs for that.


When HC came back to Apple, the team proposed and created 
proof-of-concept demos for HyperCard v3, or "QuickTime 
Interactive".   QTI melded QuickTime and HyperCard by storing HC 
stacks as QuickTime movies.  The potential was tremendous: HC 
acquires color, eliminates the field & script text limits, and 
becomes cross-platform; but, as with the original HC, Apple 
management didn't get it...with one exception: the person who 
preceeded Jobs' second coming.


It's been too long for me to remember his name (Jean ??); but when 
Kevin C. demoed QTI for him, his response was "This is what Apple is 
really all about, isn't it?"  Apparently the Board of Directors 
decided Apple was really about colorized hardware and eye candy, and 
put Jobs back in charge.


For much of my career, the holy grail of programming was a tool that 
would allow non-programmers to create software.  In the mid-seventies 
the City of Oakland spent many $ acquiring an IBM report generator, 
DYL-260, and training people from every City department how to use 
it...just to generate reports from existing data files.  In the end, 
only one other person outside the DP Department besides moi ever 
produced anything meaningful.


HyperCard was that holy grail; but Apple didn't understand it the 
first or second time around.  Nor did the software reviewers, I might add.


Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
 Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

 from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 


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Re: Works on Mac OS X, Why Not on Win XP? II--SOLVED

2005-12-11 Thread Rob Cozens


Hi Charles,


Do I understand right, that this problem applies only to standalones?
My Dreamcard stacks are OK without this step?


No, I'm referring to stack files.

If I place a Jump Drive in a USB slot on my Mac, drag the files to 
the Drive, transfer the Drive to my Tablet PC, and drag the files to 
the TPC, most files won't open in RunRev and many that do are corrupted.


The problem goes away if the files are compressed before and 
decompressed after moving.


I don't know what this portends for Dreamcard stacks; but I'd be wary.

Rob Cozens CCW
Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
 Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

 from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 


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Re: discussions,opinions and religion - may be we need 2 lists?

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> On Dec 11, 2005, at 9:08 AM, Mathewson wrote:
>> There is a need for a forum for these sort of topics as
>> well as bits of code:
>>
>> I for one would be grateful if RR could "split" this list:
>
> Is that not what the 'Improve-Revolution' list is for?

The improve-rev list is for Enterprise license holders to refine 
specific feature enhancement requests before they get presented to 
RunRev in Bugzilla.  We're all picky about syntax, and the improve-rev 
list lets us get that hard part out of the way.

Until this morning there has been no discussion list focused on sharing 
opinions about what Rev "needs" to do or "should" do -- and now there is:

I look forward to seeing business philosophy discussions move there, and 
seeing the use-rev list return to being about using Rev.

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Re: What Rev Needs -- Again (was "Why is Konfabulator "Pretty?")


Wolfgang, I've replied to your message on the rev-biz list:



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Re: iTunes for windows

2005-12-11 Thread sims


At 10:38 AM -0500 12/11/05, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
I figure I can use Applescript on the Mac but I don't know about 
iTunes for Windows. Is anyone familiar with doing things like this 
on Windows?


What are the options available? On the extraction side can I use an 
output from iTunes? Is there an XML file etc.?


There is an "iTunes Music Library.xml"  for my Tiger OS X 
iTunes...there might be a Windows version

of that same document.  Reading that file might get you somewhere.

ciao,
sims

European Rev Conference  2006
www.techietours.com
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Re: Heads & Tails

2005-12-11 Thread Jim Hurley


Mark Greenburg wrote:



Beautiful solution!  The arrays are probably much faster than the 
regular expressions too.  And I learned a new command: Combine.  
Thanks for teaching me.  : )


On Dec 10, 2005, at 6:52 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:


 on mouseUP
put field 1 into tText
put char 1 of tText into tLastChar
   --Separate the string of h's and t's into words
repeat for each char c in tText
  if c = tLastChar then
put c after results
  else put  space & c after results
put c into tLastChar
end repeat

--Do a word count
repeat for each word tWord in results
  add 1 to tWordCount[tWord]
end repeat

--Display
combine tWordCount with return and comma
put tWordCount into field 2

 end mouseUP


Mark,

Thanks for the kind words. I learned this trick of doing a word count 
(actually a word use count) from Scott Rainey. I think it was he that 
posted that use of arrays many years ago.


Jim



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Sockets

2005-12-11 Thread Jim Hurley

I'm learning something about testing for an Internet connection from 
the last couple of posts of the list digest.


I used to use the old method of testing for a connection to Google. 
Now all I need to do is find out was a socket is. I know it must have 
something to do with light bulbs.


Searched the dictionary for "socket" and came up with the single 
"Using URLs, uploading, and downloading", 18 pages (copied to Word) 
which don't  appear to contain the word "socket."


Is there a secret RR society which is privy to this sort of thing? 
Can I join? Sock it to me.


Jim

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Re: discussions,opinions and religion - may be we need 2 lists?


Mathewson wrote:

There is a need for a forum for these sort of topics


Please -- I just made this to help this split along:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rev-biz/

I'll make you moderator as soon as you sign in, then you can extend that 
to anyone else you like.


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Re: tab buttons and localisation

2005-12-11 Thread Bob Hutchison



On Dec 11, 2005, at 10:56 AM, Bob Hutchison wrote:


Hi,

I use tabbed buttons in my user interface. They work easily enough,  
but every reference to how this is done uses the "on menuPick  
pNew,pOld" handler. And every reference seems to use a switch or  
something to recognise the tab that was clicked based on the  
*visible* text. Sometimes a cardname = tabname trick is used.


This means that the visible text on the tab is used in two places  
and the RR user has to remember to change these values so that they  
match.


This is generally a Bad Thing, just out of principle. It means that  
when the text of a tab is changed the script has to be changed.  
This is a Really Bad Thing when trying to localise the application:  
each tab will have multiple text values, where, as you'd know if  
you've ever been involved in such a thing, the localised text is  
pretty much guaranteed to change a number of times. (And the  
cardname = tabname obviously won't work in this situation).


Way too error prone.

So, it turns out that there is a property that lists the tab  
labels, so I can write something along the lines of:


on menuPick pNew,pOld
  get the properties of me
  put it["text"] into labels
  put 1 into tabNumber
  repeat for each line aLabel in labels
if pNew = aLabel then exit repeat
add 1 to tabNumber
  end repeat

  switch tabNumber


A cleaner way to deal with this is to replace the above with what  
follows:


on menuPick pNew,pOld
  get the properties of me
  switch lineoffset(pNew, it["text"])



  case 1
go card "card_one"
break
  case 2
go card "card_two"
break
  case 3
go card "card_three"
break
  default
 go card "card_one"
 break
  end switch
end menuPick

I checked this and it does localise correctly.

Any better ways of doing this?

There is nothing particularly clever about what I'm doing, but I'm  
new to RR and this kind of thing is a) not obvious to a new user  
(how to find the name of a property is not obvious to me at least);  
and, b) a nasty trap if not addressed by the RR programmer. The  
event "menuPick" isn't something I find particularly obvious either.


It would be good if this was either fixed in RR or that this, or  
some better technique/trick, was more widely documented.


Cheers,
Bob


Bob Hutchison  -- blogs at 
Recursive Design Inc.  -- 
Raconteur  -- 





Bob Hutchison  -- blogs at 
Recursive Design Inc.  -- 
Raconteur  -- 


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Re: tab buttons and localisation


Yeah, But we can do tabbed buttons!!! That's so cool.

We could of course roll our own, and you are right there are some  
problems, but at least they work across platforms.


Your solution seems to work well.

Tom

On Dec 11, 2005, at 10:56 AM, Bob Hutchison wrote:

I use tabbed buttons in my user interface. They work easily enough,  
but every reference to how this is done uses the "on menuPick  
pNew,pOld" handler. And every reference seems to use a switch or  
something to recognise the tab that was clicked based on the  
*visible* text. Sometimes a cardname = tabname trick is used.


Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Semantic Compaction Systems
SCIconics, LLC

Lazy River Metal Arts
Lazy River Software™
&
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Re: Rev and open source (was "What Rev Needs")

2005-12-11 Thread Wolfgang Bereuter



On 09.12.2005, at 01:30, Marielle Lange wrote:

Not too loud that's an idea I am working on, using revolution  
to both rapidly define (scripter side) and rapidly present (user  
side) visual interfaces used to define parameters to Unix scripts.  
A not so detailed overview at:  and . More  
details to follow soon.


Congratiulation Marielle,
you got it!
pls be *very loud*!!

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

T-mapping© is PhotoLearning Mindmaps!
...
http://www.internettrainer.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410
Fax: ++43/1/ 955 14 64-198


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Re: What Rev Needs -- Again (was "Why is Konfabulator "Pretty?")

2005-12-11 Thread Wolfgang Bereuter



On 08.12.2005, at 18:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Okay, I'll bite: what exactly is an "open source strategy" for an  
engine which is, and will likely remain, closed-source?


Richard,
I know you since many years as a very intelligent person. I cant  
explain why its so difficut to understand why rev is not popular,  
because I tried so many time to explain it. So it must be my fault. I  
try it again, because I still believe in the idea of rev/MC, not in  
RR, I have learnd that in the past. (Once again sorry, my english  
could be better...)


first of all: *Why isn't Rev more popular?*
My completly different point of view: I m a creativ, right brained  
talented person but I m an idiot programmer. I need(ed) a MM  
Authoring tool for my idea of a new lerning GUI. At the beginning I  
was singing like the others the hymne of rev, until I understood,  
that rev is not a tool for "idot programmers". Its a no-fish/no-meat  
tool for professional coders.
Then I realy learned to hate it: 1. Version, problems with RR policy,  
behavior of the Management, GUI, ignorance of client wishes, crashes,  
etc, etc... endless list (No doubt my fault: I thougt its a mature  
tool, because MC was about 10 year on the market, and rev is only a  
GUI).


The only big point of rev is this list and his members: they helped  
me a lot. I would not read the postings occasionally as i still do.  
But, its a kind of insider circle, which can not really expand  
because of the *wrong policy of RR*. Why is that policy so wrong? (I  
said that many times, investments in Dreamcard,  Licence policy, etc,  
etc... Where is, after years, a support for other editors, good rtf,  
native Flash support, nativ web support (like Flash) etc...???


I had to give up my learning projekt for a time, maybe thats good for  
my life?, and follow on writing my novel, which I m finishing now.  
Now it comes to one of the main points "Why isn't Rev more popular?"  
In my novel a developer tool is one of the "protagonists" in a nerd´s  
group. I dont know at the moment if the readers will like that book,  
but if they will, RR has lost another big opportunity to bring rev  
out of that insider circle.
*Why?* At the beginnig, the tool in the story was called Revolution,  
now its called iMistral, because I dont know if I can use mTropolis  
or iShell (copywrite the editor has to check that)...


some thoughts aside...
What happens with rev when Macrobe kills Director (will happen), and  
decides to make different developer GUI´s for Flash/swf for coders  
and  Non-Coders? (imho the big business for rev) One of them could be  
a "hypercard"-xtalk-GUI ;)

- - -
What happens with rev when aside M$ (VB), cocoa will be realized as a  
real crossplatform tool, if Dharma or that patent from Apple (for  
more operating systems on one PC) comes? (Essential for Apple...)  
Annother *big* free competitor for the *professional* coders.

- - -
Where are the easy to use **independent** low cost crossplatformtool  
for the masses? (imho the real target market for rev)

- - -
Why "an/one" OS strategie? There are so many different types of  
licences between GNU and commercial...


If anybody is interested, I can explain it, but I dont want to write  
so much to one post. Nobody reads that...


regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

T-mapping© is PhotoLearning Mindmaps!
...
http://www.internettrainer.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
Tel: ++43/1/ 479 6410
Fax: ++43/1/ 955 14 64-198


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tab buttons and localisation

2005-12-11 Thread Bob Hutchison


Hi,

I use tabbed buttons in my user interface. They work easily enough,  
but every reference to how this is done uses the "on menuPick  
pNew,pOld" handler. And every reference seems to use a switch or  
something to recognise the tab that was clicked based on the  
*visible* text. Sometimes a cardname = tabname trick is used.


This means that the visible text on the tab is used in two places and  
the RR user has to remember to change these values so that they match.


This is generally a Bad Thing, just out of principle. It means that  
when the text of a tab is changed the script has to be changed. This  
is a Really Bad Thing when trying to localise the application: each  
tab will have multiple text values, where, as you'd know if you've  
ever been involved in such a thing, the localised text is pretty much  
guaranteed to change a number of times. (And the cardname = tabname  
obviously won't work in this situation).


Way too error prone.

So, it turns out that there is a property that lists the tab labels,  
so I can write something along the lines of:


on menuPick pNew,pOld
  get the properties of me
  put it["text"] into labels
  put 1 into tabNumber
  repeat for each line aLabel in labels
if pNew = aLabel then exit repeat
add 1 to tabNumber
  end repeat

  switch tabNumber
  case 1
go card "card_one"
break
  case 2
go card "card_two"
break
  case 3
go card "card_three"
break
  default
 go card "card_one"
 break
  end switch
end menuPick

I checked this and it does localise correctly.

Any better ways of doing this?

There is nothing particularly clever about what I'm doing, but I'm  
new to RR and this kind of thing is a) not obvious to a new user (how  
to find the name of a property is not obvious to me at least); and,  
b) a nasty trap if not addressed by the RR programmer. The event  
"menuPick" isn't something I find particularly obvious either.


It would be good if this was either fixed in RR or that this, or some  
better technique/trick, was more widely documented.


Cheers,
Bob


Bob Hutchison  -- blogs at 
Recursive Design Inc.  -- 
Raconteur  -- 


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Re: discussions,opinions and religion - may be we need 2 lists?


R,

Is that not what the 'Improve-Revolution' list is for?

T

On Dec 11, 2005, at 9:08 AM, Mathewson wrote:


There is a need for a forum for these sort of topics as
well as bits of code:

I for one would be grateful if RR could "split" this list:
that is to say - continue with this use-list for code and
how-tos - and provide a second use-list for discussions to
do with the subjects that obviously give Bob Hartley and
his type stomach upset.


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iTunes for windows


Hello to all of my wonderful friends here on the list.


I have a project that involves iTunes. I want to extract locally a  
users playlists and song/podcast list from their computer and do some  
things in Rev. I then want to put/import some content back into iTunes.


I figure I can use Applescript on the Mac but I don't know about  
iTunes for Windows. Is anyone familiar with doing things like this on  
Windows?


What are the options available? On the extraction side can I use an  
output from iTunes? Is there an XML file etc.?


On the importing side is it acceptable to just ask the user to drop/ 
import a folder into iTunes from my output? Or is there a way to send  
a command to iTunes to tell it to do the import?


I am just starting this project and any and all help or input is  
greatly appreciated.


Yours truly,

Tom McGrath


Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Lazy River Metal Arts

Lazy River Software™

Meeting Wear™ - Unique Apparel Design


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Re: Recent Development on the Use-LIst


R,

Thanks, I knew what I said was probably obvious to some but I felt I  
should say it for the others that might not.


I have some very exciting projects in the works and am need to get  
more focused on them. I did not want to increase the traffic any  
further on this topic.


What are you working on now? I know you always have something in the  
works.


Tom

On Dec 11, 2005, at 9:03 AM, Mathewson wrote:


Tom McGrath wrote "My thoughts are mine so please don't
take offense."

I am not offended.


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Re: Recent Development on the Use-LIst

In fact, they have. Heather, of course, didn't put it like that, but  
as Bob points out, she emphasized that this is a how-to-use list.


These discussions are quite interesting, but IMHO this is not the  
place for them, since they do interfere with the actual utility of  
the list.


Now I'll shut-up,

Best,

Mark


On 11 Dec 2005, at 14:03, Mathewson wrote:


Tom: RR could say "Boil your collective heads" to all the
folk on the use-list who have been suggesting ways the
company might go: what is interesting is that, so far, they
have not.


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Re: Recent Development on the Use-List


Hi all,

What do you think about the educational model
used by Alias (now an AutoDesk company)



>From their webpage:
-
Maya Personal Learning Edition is a special version of Maya® 
software, which provides free access to Maya for non-commercial 
use. It gives 3D graphics and animation students, industry professionals, 
and those interested in breaking into the world of computer graphics 
(CG) an opportunity to explore all aspects of the award-winning Maya 
Complete software in a non-commercial capacity.

Available for Windows® 2000/XP Professional and Mac® OS X 
operating systems.

The Maya Personal Learning Edition restricts users to non-commercial 
applications through the display of a watermark on images as well as 
through the use of a special non-commercial file format. 

"One of Alias' strengths besides the Maya Software
is its online community. It's huge. I professional
and very entushiastic about pushing the boundaries.
Using Maya is more a lifestyle than a job."

(This statement reflects exactly, what many had
already said in this Developers mail list)


Did you read this?
Maya Learning Edition saves files in their own format,
that could not be opened from a Commercial version
of Maya.

Rev could do the same change of file format,
with a Free educational version.

What do you think about this?


al

--
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com:
http://www.nabble.com/Recent-Development-on-the-Use-List-t719292.html#a1891562
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RE: MIDI Files

2005-12-11 Thread Scott Kane

Hi Al,

Thank you.  You wouldn't happen to have the ULL would
you?

Sott


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discussions,opinions and religion - may be we need 2 lists?

There is a need for a forum for these sort of topics as
well as bits of code:

SO . . . 

I for one would be grateful if RR could "split" this list:

that is to say - continue with this use-list for code and
how-tos - and provide a second use-list for discussions to
do with the subjects that obviously give Bob Hartley and
his type stomach upset.

sincerely, Richmond 
__
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http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
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Re: MIDI Files


Hi Scott,

you could visit Hugh Senior's website:



and download the file:


UDI, an extraordinary japanese programmer,
published many stacks to play Midi files using
notation similar to HyperCard.


al
--
Sent from the Revolution - User forum at Nabble.com:
http://www.nabble.com/MIDI-Files-t718204.html#a1891174
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Recent Development on the Use-LIst

Tom McGrath wrote "My thoughts are mine so please don't
take offense."

I am not offended.

In fact I am extremely happy that Tom McGrath voiced his
opinion in opposition to what I wrote in my previous
posting under this heading. Healthy debate is a requirement
of all societies that don't want to run the risk of
stagnation.

Tom: RR could say "Boil your collective heads" to all the
folk on the use-list who have been suggesting ways the
company might go: what is interesting is that, so far, they
have not. Now I am well aware that RR are their own bosses
and do not have to do anything that anybody else suggests;
I would suppose that most of the other posters who have
suggested ideas on this use-list are aware of that as well.

As should also be clear from the postings on this list, and
elsewhere, there are many models for software: Free,
Semi-Free, OpenSource, Private, etc. and quite a few
adherents to what we could term a "mixed economic model".

It is also clear that RR are not Adobe (walled up in their
'mud hut' - pun intended).

sincerely, Richmond

__
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http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
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discussions, opinions and religion

2005-12-11 Thread Bob Hartley


Hi All.

I think Heather was right on the ball the other day when she emphasised that
this list was for discussing code etc adn tip for "USING" rev.

Can we please drop all the discussions about Marketing, Personal smipes,
using the computing crystal ball and stick to posting codeing problems adn
their answers.

It is gettin to the stage that I spend more time deleteing useless and
pointless posts than actually reading the board.

This mail is a typical example and will be my last, however, I feel
Heather's kind words to desist have not reached some ears.

All the best
Bob; Sunny Scotland
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Re: Recent Development on the Use-List

I don't want to further this part of the thread too much. I don't  
agree with these assumptions.



On Dec 11, 2005, at 7:38 AM, Mathewson wrote:


1. A question about who RR is meant for: does it have
pretensions to be a "universal faith", or is it some little
"gnostic sect" for an elite?
It really is not up to me or you who/what RR is meant for. That is  
the companies business. It is/was not up to me who/what Photoshop was  
designed for. I am a professional Graphics designer/developer and GUI  
designer, I am not a Photographer. Photoshop is targeted at  
Photographers it seems more than Graphic designers IMO. But I still  
love PS and use it in every project I do. They can target whomever  
they choose. It is not my call.

2. Is the "liturgy" to be conducted in Plain English or
"Sanskrit / Latin / Old Church Slavonic" ?
I think this is referring to Transcript??? Again, This is not my/your  
call. If the company decides this or that gets added then great but  
all I can do is recommend something. (This is why I pay for an  
Enterprise License and subscribe to the 'Improve-Revolution' list)


3. Is there a need for a "person of vision" to radically
rethink and repackage RR to prevent mass migration
elsewhere and reinvigorate people's faith in the validity
of RR right now?
Like Steve jobs, there are some who love him and some who hate him. I  
don't think RR needs to be rethought or repackaged at all (It is  
because of what Revolution is now that I payed good money for it, and  
not what some other people not associated with the company think it  
should be.)
I must have missed something, Is there a MASS MIGRATION happening???  
I thought just the opposite was happening. I thought RR had doubled  
its user base??? I think RR is completely Valid right now, as is,  
straight out of the box.


4. Do the churches (GUI) look a bit shabby in comparison
with the mosques, temples and so forth that litter the
landscape?
I was always taught that it was not what was outside that counts but  
rather what was inside that mattered. I do think the outside does  
matter as a first impression though and cleaning the GUI up certainly  
will help. But why compare RR with other programs in other fields???  
Why not hold it up to its own standards??? I think it can hold up  
just fine and as long as the company keeps doing the wonderful  
improvements that it has been doing it will soon look even greater.


One of my criticisms of RR (the company) is that, apart
from the fact that we know their headquarters are in the
New Town in Edinburgh, we know very little about them
personally. There is also a feeling that the faceless folk
at RR don't have a strong leader who LISTENS AND RESPONDS
TO THE DEVOTEES OF THE FAITH.
REALLY, I always had the impression that RR listens very well, they  
always have someone on the list poking their head in here and telling  
us about upcoming events and improvements. They also post solutions  
and ideas here. I never met - saw - heard of any one at Macromedia on  
the MD lists. I never heard of anyone from Adobe on the Photoshop  
lists, etc. etc. But I see someone from RR at least once month here  
on the list AND they listen! They take what the user base says  
here and the incorporate that into the upgrades.


My thoughts are mine so please don't take offense.

Thanks
Tom McGrath

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Re: MIDI Files

Exactly. A midi file is effectively a description of the music (a  
list of notes to be played, with some other information), like a  
written score, as opposed to a recording.


Mark

On 11 Dec 2005, at 13:11, Charles Hartman wrote:



On Dec 10, 2005, at 11:22 PM, Scott Kane wrote:


Thanks for the reply.  I assumed they were binary, didn't
know they were text.


They aren't, but they're like text: getting music out of them is  
analogous to getting speech out of a text file. (It's interesting  
to think about the relative algorithmicity of the two processes …)


Charles Hartman

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Re: MIDI Files

2005-12-11 Thread Charles Hartman



On Dec 10, 2005, at 11:22 PM, Scott Kane wrote:


Thanks for the reply.  I assumed they were binary, didn't
know they were text.


They aren't, but they're like text: getting music out of them is  
analogous to getting speech out of a text file. (It's interesting to  
think about the relative algorithmicity of the two processes …)


Charles Hartman

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Re: Heads & Tails

2005-12-11 Thread Mark Greenberg

Beautiful solution!  The arrays are probably much faster than the  
regular expressions too.  And I learned a new command: Combine.   
Thanks for teaching me.  : )


On Dec 10, 2005, at 6:52 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:


on mouseUP
   put field 1 into tText
   put char 1 of tText into tLastChar
  --Separate the string of h's and t's into words
   repeat for each char c in tText
 if c = tLastChar then
   put c after results
 else put  space & c after results
   put c into tLastChar
   end repeat

   --Do a word count
   repeat for each word tWord in results
 add 1 to tWordCount[tWord]
   end repeat

   --Display
   combine tWordCount with return and comma
   put tWordCount into field 2
end mouseUP


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Recent Development on the Use-List

The point of comparison between HC/SC/MC/RR and religions
is valid. If you read the Jewish Bible (whether you believe
it or not) it presents a history where every time the
Jewish religion, and its adherents get a bit "frayed round
the edges" a new prophet was sent to get everybody going
again - present the same message in a slightly fresher,
more up-to-date packaging. We could see Bill Atkinson in
the role of Abraham - the great founder-patriarch.

[By the way, I described Bill Atkinson's photography
website as 'sad': the word 'sad' was not meant to refer to
his photos - personally I think they are super - the word
'sad' referred to the fact that I felt a man of real vision
had retreated into the "mountain fastnesses of his
hermitage" away from the continuing life of the great
avatar of HC - RR]

Over the last few weeks RR has come in for some scrutiny
and discussion of a quite different nature than the usual
user-list fare. This is undoubtedly healthy and symptomatic
of a "crisis of faith" that needs addressing before there
is a mass migration of users away from RR to other RAD
suites:

1. A question about who RR is meant for: does it have
pretensions to be a "universal faith", or is it some little
"gnostic sect" for an elite?

2. Is the "liturgy" to be conducted in Plain English or
"Sanskrit / Latin / Old Church Slavonic" ?

3. Is there a need for a "person of vision" to radically
rethink and repackage RR to prevent mass migration
elsewhere and reinvigorate people's faith in the validity
of RR right now?

4. Do the churches (GUI) look a bit shabby in comparison
with the mosques, temples and so forth that litter the
landscape?

One of my criticisms of RR (the company) is that, apart
from the fact that we know their headquarters are in the
New Town in Edinburgh, we know very little about them
personally. There is also a feeling that the faceless folk
at RR don't have a strong leader who LISTENS AND RESPONDS
TO THE DEVOTEES OF THE FAITH.

Now I have referred in several of my postings to 'Princes
of the Church' - but I really wonder if there are any
official princes of this church. I also made a joke about
Dan Shafer in a Cardinal's hat - well, it seems to me that
Dan Shafer, Richard Gaskin and Jeanne DeVoto are as near as
one can get to princes of this church (I'm sorry, there are
others (Chipp ? and more) who escape me at the moment) -
yet they also seem to stand in some sort of ambivalent
position vis-a-vis RR (the company).

I sacked a project-engineer who was designing my house here
in Bulgaria because he went on his own sweet way without
ever consulting me: i.e. planning a house for me, with my
money, and treating me like a mushroom (keep it in the dark
and throw sh*t on it). I now have a new project engineer
who knows damn well that every penny is mine and I'm a mean
Scot who won't give him a brass bawbee of my siller unless
he keeps me informed and defers to my requests and
decisions.

If RR has pretensions to become a universal standard RAD
then it had better "pull its finger out" (I notice that
RealBasic is now FREE for Linux - and one can develop
cross-platform with it - bl**dy fantastic! mind you, I have
invested a lot of time and energy into learning xTalk - but
RR cannot rely on people's knowledge investment for ever).
I have a few ideas (which may be fairly naive and goofy):

1. Apple is having a "tent revival" session which could
just blow the socks off Uncle Bill: the Intel-based Macs
are just around the corner, and with it "Leopard" - Mac OS
10.5 -  that will have both PPC and Intel variants. How
about a cut-down version of RR with every copy of Leopard?
Ring Uncle Steve.

1.1 I suppose each copy of Leopard should also be
accompanied by a slim volume called "Intro to RR" so that
users actually realise that there is a copy of RR bundled
with the OS.

2. A FREE downloadable cut-down version: DreamCard with a
10-line limit?

3. Sort out the way the online documentation is organised.
I still use the docs from 2.0.1 even though I work with DC
2.6.1 on Mac and RR 2.2.1 on Linux - RR should be able to
work out why - they have been told about this by many, many
people for a long time: slack, very slack.

Personally I cannot see much wrong with the UI that
individuals cannot change (recall my heretical versions of
the toolbar). Of course if one relies for RR for what one's
finished stacks or standalones look like they will all be
rather "samey" and possibly not to one's individual taste.
What is extremely good about RR is that one can go to
graphic "hell" and graphic "heaven" of one's own free will;
of course that involves a bit more effort than if one
relies on RR's own look and feel. However it has come in
for some heavy criticism so needs to be addressed.

4. Let the RR people come out of the closet so we feel that
they care about their user-base (and I don't mean just for
expensive jaunts to Malta).

5. Let the RR people know that they respond to user
suggestions not just by implementing them, b

Re: Why is Konfabulator 'Pretty?'

2005-12-11 Thread Marielle Lange



Hi Chipp,

Thanks for the reply. Again, sorry if what I wrote was perceived as  
an attack. Sorry folks, this was not meant to be about you. This was  
meant to be about the other end of the spectrum .


What you find on runrev ltd frontpage is:

Revolution Dreamcard is ideal for beginners and (intermediate)  
developers.




When we have somebody complain on the list about the doc or the non- 
intuitiveness of the IDE, this person is not necessarily a professional.



The Rev docs while far from perfect, are so good that complaining  
about them tells me more about the griper's lack of experience with  
other development environments and their documentation than it does  
about Rev's docs.




That's the point... Dreamcard is presented as something that "persons  
with lack of experience with other development environments" can come  
to grip with. Apparently, it doesn't work that well. Beginners often  
complain on this list or elswhere (see , a mailing list for dreamcard users or  
beginners in general) about the fact that it is not that easy to get  
to grip with this new environment.



All that said, I'm for giving away DreamCard with no support. So  
that students, inventive users, hobbyists, novices, and  
professionals can use it and learn how absolutely great Transcript  
and the message path really is. I believe many will eventually  
upgrade to Revolution.




Not that simple. You need a small set of good tutorials and a few  
easy to adapt examples first. Once there is a critical mass, in terms  
of users, tutorials and free to re-use resources will start to  
multiply, thanks to members' contributions. But for that sufficient  
number of users to be there at the first place, something needs to be  
done to help strict beginners transform their evaluation license into  
a paying one. Scripting conferences are "great"! But they are not  
promoted as well as they could and I believe they are more adequate  
for an "intermediate" user, somebody making the switch to revolution  
from another environment.


I had supervised 2 students, new to revolution, for master projects.  
They had access to all material currently available. But they both  
said that without me taking them through and making a small demo on  
how to build a first stack and without the possibility to come to my  
office and ask me "how do I do this?", they wouldn't have been able  
to get to grip with this new environment.


I am not saying that revolution should take care of this (I am not  
interfering with their business). I am only saying that we should be  
a little more understanding when people on this list, like Bill,  
present the konfabulator approach as a way to better serve persons  
completely new to programming. Such persons often want to learn to  
program not because they want to build a complex CMS application but  
because they have seen the konfabulator widgets and the inventive/ 
creative type of person they are would like to be able to do  
something cool like that. You start like that... and thanks to the  
fantastic tool that revolution is, without even realizing it, in the  
course of two years you become a developer.


So, about doing something to improve the visibility of runrev Ltd, I  
said bad idea because this gives newcommers the false illusion that  
dreamcard is something that can help them learn programming. Yes, it  
can in term of capacity, not in terms of beginner support currently  
available. But about writing a few good tutorials to help the  
complete beginners on this list (our fellow users current and to  
come), I say, great idea, let's do it. Feel free to to use any of my  
wiki. If any of you prefers to create another resource from scratch  
(tikiwiki is not perfect for all jobs), then know I would be keen to  
help.


Christmas spirit, time of sharing :-). What about making a few cool  
christmas themed demo stacks. A few things very simple which could be  
a kind of e-card made with revolution?


Marielle

 


Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Alternative emails: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage
http://homepages.lexicall.org/mlange/

Easy access to lexical databaseshttp://lexicall.org
Supporting Education Technologists  http:// 
revolution.lexicall.org/wiki




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