Re: snapshot and imageData...

[jbv]

> Could decoding the RGB of one of the last 10 pixels help?  This assumes that
> Rev processes from first to last of the image length.
>
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas

yep... this also assumes that you never have 10 black pixels at
the bottom right of your screen...

JB

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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Kay C Lan]

On 6/1/06, Bill Marriott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Can you imagine the outcry if. But the "real"
limit is even lower when you consider the performance realities.



Hmmm.. That's exactly why I left Word and Excel behind in 91, bloatware...
but that is another issue.



You could say, "Well, don't structure it that way. Use only the fields
necessary for on-screen display." Unfortunately, once you are in the
business of going into fields and setting them, Rev bogs down as well.



How many fields are you dealing with when you start to see Rev bogging down?
How much data is in those fields? With the 'on-screen' only approach, this
could only ever be a factor if you delete entire rows. For single cell
edits, I just UPDATE that single cell and just SELECT the data back in the
same cell. I get an instant update of how MySQL server sees the data - which
can be different to how it appears in REV cells (ie it may go in as Bold,
,Hoefler, coloured, non-ASCII) but comes back plain black. To get the same
from CocoaMySQL I have to reload the entire table, and that takes a lot of
time.



What I arrived at was using a single field for each column, but it still
is
not as fast as deleting a line from a single field.



Actually that's very good. I can see I could use that approach for certain
types of data and especially for small datasets, more spreadsheets than dbs.
I'd have to do some experimenting, because every db is different, but for
the smallest I imagine I could go with the entire data set and load to allow
'normal' scrolling. For bigger dbs, I'd probably still stick with LIMITing
to 50 rows and going with 'stepped' scrolling. I can't imagine roughly 10
fields of 50 lines of text would take any more that the blink of the eye to
update - unless of course each line contains 65K char of text.

Thanks for the 'alternate method', now, do I have enough time to whip up a
quick test stack:-)
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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Bill Marriott]

Kay C Lan wrote
> Hmmm.. That's exactly why I left Word and Excel behind in 91, bloatware...
> but that is another issue.

I think you know what I mean. Any spreadsheet with a 2000-row limit would be 
very unpopular. But speaking of Excel, the new Excel 2007 will up the limit 
of columns to 16,000 (from 256) and the number of rows to 1 million (from 
64,000). For an in-depth overview of the limits in the new Excel, see

http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/archive/2005/09/26/474258.aspx

> How many fields are you dealing with when you start to see Rev bogging 
> down?
> How much data is in those fields? With the 'on-screen' only approach, this
> could only ever be a factor if you delete entire rows. For single cell
> edits, I just UPDATE that single cell and just SELECT the data back in the
> same cell.

Ok, look at the instance where you want to add/insert one line. You have to 
push at least one line off-screen and write the new information in. If you 
are "paging" your screens it's not so bad. You can lock screen and it 
happens pretty quick. But what if you want to allow smooth scrolling up and 
down, line-by-line? Then each scroll tick requires you to purge a line, and 
update a line, which gets noticeably laggy even when only showing 25 rows of 
a dozen or so columns. Plus a real headache here is maintaining an 
off-screen image of the data and keeping the on-screen representation of it 
in sync. Not so bad when you are working with a fixed-sized display grid, 
but users really like to maximize their windows, display a lot of data, and 
whip the mouse around to different parts of the table. For all the 
shortcomings of the table object it's at least speedy to navigate. Using the 
on-screen-only approach would not be anywhere close to that.

> Actually that's very good. I can see I could use that approach for certain
> types of data and especially for small datasets, more spreadsheets than 
> dbs.
> I'd have to do some experimenting, because every db is different, but for
> the smallest I imagine I could go with the entire data set and load to 
> allow
> 'normal' scrolling. For bigger dbs, I'd probably still stick with LIMITing
> to 50 rows and going with 'stepped' scrolling. I can't imagine roughly 10
> fields of 50 lines of text would take any more that the blink of the eye 
> to
> update - unless of course each line contains 65K char of text.
>
> Thanks for the 'alternate method', now, do I have enough time to whip up a
> quick test stack:-)

The one-field-per-column approach works okay for fairly large numbers of 
rows. Scrolling up and down is handled by a loop which sets the scroll of 
visible columns and is fairly smooth. Scrolling side-to-side is handled by 
scrolling the group. But the problem with the approach is that the scroll 
gets wonky after a while of use; some users cannot scroll to the bottom when 
a large number of rows are present. And the horizontal scrollbar on the 
group is hard to tame. And of course, I have to loop through each column to 
write data instead of just blasting out a tab-delimited line, which is what 
I'd prefer to do. 



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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Kay C Lan]

On 6/1/06, Bill Marriott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Kay C Lan wrote
Ok, look at the instance where you want to add/insert one line. You have
to
push at least one line off-screen and write the new information in. If you
are "paging" your screens it's not so bad. You can lock screen and it
happens pretty quick.



Yes, which is exactly what I do.

But what if you want to allow smooth scrolling up and

down, line-by-line?



My approach is definitely not 'smooth scrolling' - old data, blink, new
data. Left 10 columns of data, blink, Right 10 columns of data. I use
lockscreen all the time.



 Not so bad when you are working with a fixed-sized display grid,
but users really like to maximize their windows, display a lot of data,
and
whip the mouse around to different parts of the table.



I have the luxury of only having to worry about my own work preferences:-)

For all the shortcomings of the table object it's at least speedy to

navigate. Using the
on-screen-only approach would not be anywhere close to that.



Well I think this is a little along the line of ' 640K should be enough for
anyone'. I certainly felt I had to have 'tablelike' navigation until I
started working with really large amounts of data. I imagine loading a 8k
column x 500k row spreadsheet in Excel 2007 will not be a pleasant
experience:-)

Having discovered how to get my data to display immediately I've learnt to
live with the short comings of my stepped approach. I get the impression
(probably false) that I'm more productive because I don't have that initial
wait - but again this is only a factor for really large data sets.

The one-field-per-column approach works okay for fairly large numbers of

rows. Scrolling up and down is handled by a loop which sets the scroll of
visible columns and is fairly smooth. Scrolling side-to-side is handled by
scrolling the group. But the problem with the approach is that the scroll
gets wonky after a while of use; some users cannot scroll to the bottom
when
a large number of rows are present. And the horizontal scrollbar on the
group is hard to tame. And of course, I have to loop through each column
to
write data instead of just blasting out a tab-delimited line, which is
what
I'd prefer to do.



I've starred this thread so that I can come back when I have a bit of time
to run a test stack with this approach:-) I'll probably start with only 6
columns, so I don't have to worry about horizontal scrolling:-)

Thanks for the extra info.
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Re: Unicode sorting

[Kenji Kojima]

Hi,

This is Japanese sorting.
go url "http://www.kenjikojima.com/runrev/handbook/download/ 
JpnSortStudy.rev"


At least it works in Japanese.
The last card is sorted by item 2 that is sorted by phonetic characters.

--
Kenji Kojima
http://www.kenjikojima.com/





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Re: Print Card quits without warning on Windows XP

[Robert Eppich]

Hi All,

I have completely erased and formatted the hard disk, and re- 
installed all software from masters on the Windows XP machine. Print  
card still quits without warning.


If you use Windows XP and Rev 2.7.x can you try to print out your card 
(s) (on per stack or bg). If you have a immediate quit then make note  
of cardsize, number of flds etc. Anyone who can or cannot duplicate  
this problem, I would like to know if specific to me or not.


Thanks
Robert Eppich


On Jun 1, 2006, at 3:27 AM, Robert Eppich wrote:


From: Robert Eppich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 31, 2006 11:41:51 AM PDT (CA)
To: improve-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Print Card quits without warning on Windows XP
Reply-To: Improvements to Revolution [EMAIL PROTECTED]>



Hi,

I am running into quits without any message on Windows XP when I  
try to print a card. It works fine on the Mac. Using 2.7.1 and  
2.7.2 rc1. I have tried to turn off autoHilite, multipleHilite and  
listbehavior (bug 3624 looks similar but I can't duplicate it). I  
have removed all invisible fields and buttons.


I can use the form:

print card from "0,0" to "500,500"

but I cannot increase the print area to print out a full letter  
size page, with the printmargins set to "36,36,36,36" and the  
following:


print card from "0,0" to "572,720"

If my print area is small enough, I print without a crash, but as I  
increase my print area, the likelyhood of a crash becomes a  
certainty. The Windows XP computer only has 512mb (?) of RAM. I am  
trying to figure out how to catch this bug or work around it.


Does anyone else have this problem? Should I re-install Windows XP  
and try again?


Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Robert Eppich


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What does Rev hook into when it plays MP3 files on Windows?

[Ben Rubinstein]

I'm trying to get Rev to play MP3 files on Windows XP Embedded.

I'm carrying the stack, the MP3 file, and StackRunner around on a USB drive, 
so the problem isn't there.  I can plug the USB drive into any of several 
Windows XP machines, launch StackRunner, press the button, hear the sound.  On 
the Windows XP machine, depending on the method I use, I either get my ears 
trashed by static (if I simply "play" the file), or have an error 'starting 
video' (if I set the filename of a player object").


As I mention, I have the whole setup on a USB drive, that I can take to 
different machines, so I'm confident the question is not about the script, the 
path to the MP3 file, etc.  The issue appears to be Rev's inability to hook 
into resources it needs from the OS.


Windows XP Embedded is not a unitary system, but is built to order from (I'm 
told) about 11,000 components.  I previously had a version which didn't have 
Windows Media Player.  I downloaded and retro-fitted this, and WMP could then 
play MP3 files, but Rev still not.  I was told that this was because simply 
installing the consumer WMP didn't install all the hooks that an app would 
need; so had the OS rebuilt, this time with WMP etc buuilt in from the start. 
 I just got this back today, and it's not helped.


The supplier is going to have another go at rebuilding the OS, but obviously 
if he knew what Rev needs it would be a big help.  He's suggested that it 
might not even be specifically a Windows Media issue, but that there might be 
components he needs to include just to allow an app written in C to access 
system components at all.


Can anyone shed any light on:

- the components Rev needs from Windows to play MP3 (etc) files?

- whether there is any kind of log or console where Rev might actually be 
reporting problems it has?


Thanks in advance,

- Ben

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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Richard Gaskin]

Bill Marriott wrote:


But speaking of Excel, the new Excel 2007 will up the limit of columns
to 16,000 (from 256) and the number of rows to 1 million (from 64,000).
For an in-depth overview of the limits in the new Excel, see

http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/archive/2005/09/26/474258.aspx


How much do you suppose Microsoft has invested in making that 
spreadsheet table object over the lifetime of the product?


Two million?

Five million?

And with 98% of the spreadsheet market, how much time would anyone want 
to put into competing in that product category?


A spreadsheet table is a highly specialized and very expensive object, 
probably the most expensive of all table types.  No scripting language 
product provides one, and you have to pay a lot just to get any library 
that provides a weak one in C.


The needs of a spreadsheet table are very, very different from a 
database table.  Database tables are far more commonly needed in apps 
made with 4GLs and a heckuva lot less expensive to implement.


Rev's multi-column list support provides adequate display of columnar 
data up to 64k wide and a total of 4GB in size, and is dirt easy to use.


Sure, it could use enhancement. For example, a strong nice-to-have is 
per-column alignment, and there's a BZ request for that which I would 
imagine has the attention of Rev's engineers.


But does the current multi-column list prevent database apps from being 
built with Rev?  Evidently the many people building such apps believe 
otherwise.


But as for spreadsheets, they're so very specialized that I've seen few 
applications that truly need one, and those few might do well to take 
advantage of Microsoft's massive investment and implement such a 
specialized app in the Office platform using VBA.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Print Card quits without warning on Windows XP

[Rob Cozens]

Hi Robert,

If you use Windows XP and Rev 2.7.x can you try to print out your 
card(s) (on per stack or bg). If you have a immediate quit then make 
note of cardsize, number of flds etc. Anyone who can or cannot 
duplicate this problem, I would like to know if specific to me or not.


When I selected "Print Card":
there was some delay,
then the task bar displayed a message from the printer (HP 842C)
saying the file failed to print,
then the card image printed just as I wanted it,
then I clicked on the printer icon in the task bar and...	the 
print queue was empty.


Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company

"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."

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Re: Corrupted Images

[J. Landman Gay]

Bridger Maxwell wrote:

Hey,
 I have been having troubles with a few of my stacks.  At random times
images that I have imported will just show up as a big rectangle of uniform
black and white pixels.  The only resemblance the image keeps is its
original size.  I think they have all been PNG images.  I would use a
different image type, but PNG is the best for transparency.  Has anyone had
this problem before?  It has happenend in both Revolution Dreamcard
2.5.1and Revolution Studio
2.7.


What program are you using to produce the original PNG images? I have 
noticed that some applications create more compatible PNGs than others. 
If you have an alternate program available, you might try saving the PNG 
there and seeing if that works better.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Bill Marriott]

Richard,

You're saying that Rev's existing table object is just spiffy? Oh my, my 
ribs hurt from the laughter!

I mentioned the limit raising in Excel to illustrate that along with the 
overall eye candy in Office 2007, reworking Excel's already generous limits 
(vast, compared to Rev) was a major undertaking and clearly one of the most 
important changes made to the product in years. Doing so required them to 
really get deep into the code and rework some fundamental structures in the 
program. And they did this because people want/need and use many thousands 
of rows and columns when they are analyzing data sets. I suppose they didn't 
have to make such an enhancement, given their market share, but look how 
much a priority it was.

Converting so-many pixels to feet and inches that boils down to 2000 rows 
maximum before Rev starts corrupting your display -- and saying that's just 
fine? C'mon, that won't be taken seriously anywhere.

What if you were limited to 2000 records in a FileMaker database? Or your 
word processor documents could contain no more than 40 pages? (Heck, that's 
more than 38 feet tall! No one reads nowadays anyway!) What if your MP3s 
were limited to 3 minutes in length? Or the maximum size of a JPG was 
640x480? (I suppose you'd say no one really needs more than .3 megapixels 
for on-screen display?)

Or is it your point that because Rev is not the size or age of Microsoft 
that we should be happy to have any kind of table capability whatsoever?

I also take issue with your claim that you'd have to pay a lot of money to 
get "any library that provides a weak one in C." Even the lowest-end 
development packages these days (whether C++, Java, or other languages) 
include table objects of capability an order of magnitude above what is 
available in Rev.

Download Visual Basic Express. It's free. Add a new Data Grid control to a 
new form. Here's what you'll see:

- You can format strings in Numeric, Currency, Date/Time, Scientific, and 
Custom formats... you know, cool stuff like placeholders for percentages, 
dollar signs, negatives, commas, fixed digits. Kind of the beginnings of 
that in Rev table objects but a pity they don't work.

- Nine different options for data alignment within cells

- Specific control of cell padding along any edge

- Ability to specify the width of column dividers

- Wrapped text within cells

- Column re-ordering/resizing, auto-resizing to contents of a column

- Locked column headings and row headings (actually the ability to "freeze" 
any arbitrary column or row)

- Automatic or programmable sorting when clicking on column headings

- Ability to specify a column as a button, a check box, a combo box, an 
image, or a link

- Ability to select/cut/copy/paste rows, columns, or any region you like

- Built-in, disable-able icons for indicating active rows, collapsible rows, 
etc.

[Note: The Data Grid in Visual C++ Express, also free, is very similar.]

It might surprise you to know that I haven't built a proper BASIC program 
since my days with the Sinclair ZX81. Yet, without writing a single line of 
code, I have a *beautiful*-looking table that scrolls *instantly* with 
extremely large data sets, sorts automatically, aligns numbers properly, 
formats cells individually, has embedded checkboxes and drop-down lists, 
etc. It took me all of 5 minutes! If that is "weak" then what word is best 
used to describe the Rev table object?

No one is saying that Rev has to incorporate a spreadsheet object on par 
with Excel. But I certainly am saying that more is expected than what is 
provided.

I know you'll next be asking me how many millions MSFT has spent on Visual 
Basic over the years. But in my opinion the VB Data Grid is a very nice 
example of what the table object should be, and it ain't Excel by any 
stretch. It's not even as if the data grid in VB is the "Rolls Royce" of 
table objects. It's simply "good." I also believe that with effort, the 
people who publish Rev could provide a better-than-crap table object. If it 
isn't a priority, it should be.

If you think it isn't fair to compare to Microsoft then take a look at the 
wonderful (by comparison to Rev) ListBox facility in RealBASIC. Actually, 
after a quick survey of the many free C++ compilers listed at 
http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml I'm wondering where you 
got the idea that weak grid add-on controls cost a lot of money, since I 
could find anything weaker than the table object in Revolution ($299). Can 
you point some out to me?

Does the current "multi-column list" (i.e., glorified tab stops with 
borders) "prevent" database apps from being built in Rev? No, it just makes 
*quality* high-performance database presentation applications extremely (and 
needlessly) difficult to build! 



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Script Snatcher

[Richmond Mathewson]

Saved a few folk some time: have just uploaded a stack (SS.rev) that will 
extract all the scripts from a stack and export them as a text file.

Download it at "Richmond's RR Rantings":

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondsrrr

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



"Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of 
meanings users attach to words and phrases."
   Mathewson, 2006


-
 Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail . "The New Version is radically easier to use" – 
The Wall Street Journal
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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Richard Gaskin]

Bill Marriott wrote:

You're saying that Rev's existing table object is just spiffy? Oh my, my 
ribs hurt from the laughter!


I hate to curtail a good chuckle, but that's not what I wrote.  You 
might have a simpler time with my posts by reading the full text of them 
before replying.


I wrote in agreement with your main point:

   Sure, it could use enhancement. For example, a strong
   nice-to-have is per-column alignment, and there's a
   BZ request for that which I would imagine has the
   attention of Rev's engineers.


I'll try to summarize my post for you as briefly as I can:

- I agree with you that list display can and should be enhanced in Rev.

- I disagree with the implication that it's a trivial effort to do so.

- Database products do not also provide general GUI application
  development, multimedia support, rich Internet connectivity,
  and the many other things that Rev is used for.  Prioritization
  in such a rich application is an ongoing challenge.

- There are many types of list and table objects, some more expensive
  to build than others and they're not interchangeable.  A spreadsheet
  table is very different from a database table, which is different
  again from an html-style table.  They share some common elements,
  but ultimately serve different purposes and require different
  technical underpinnings.  There is no "one size fits all" table;
  FileMaker doesn't include a spreadsheet, Excel doesn't allow controls
  in cells, and neither provides a tree view. Prioritization of these
  very different needs is an ongoing challenge.

- I have no evidence that the folks at RunRev are completely ignorant
  of these needs, and in fact we've heard comments to the contrary here,
  at conferences, and elsewhere (though on balance I do agree with those
  on this list who suggest that more participation here from RunRev
  folks would be an invaluable confidence builder).

- Developers can assist prioritization through voting:
  

- Many developers are currently shipping highly profitable database
  applications made with Rev as it is today.

- I'm building an app here which handles at least 50,000 records rather
  gracefully, all in native Transcript (if you're coming to Monterey
  for RevCon West you're welcome to heckle my session on "The Bionic
  App" which will discuss this program and how its solutions lend
  themselves to a wide range of common development challenges).
  I'm not sure where the presumed limit of 2000 records came from,
  unless you were merely returning the favor of a good laugh.

...
Does the current "multi-column list" (i.e., glorified tab stops with 
borders) "prevent" database apps from being built in Rev? No, it just makes 
*quality* high-performance database presentation applications extremely (and 
needlessly) difficult to build! 


If Rev isn't up to your application's requirements you might consider 
downloading Visual Basic Express. I hear it's free.


VBA/Office is also an attractive multi-OS platform used for a wide range 
of highly productive in-house applications.


And of course there's the many dozens of other products said to include 
the sorts of tables you're looking for.


With so many choices available, it would be a shame to lock oneself into 
using one tool to build everything.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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Re: Linux installation

[Bob Warren]

Rishi Viner wrote:
>
On Gentoo (with KDE), I get:

/home/rishi/Desktop/
/home/rishi/
/usr/
/tmp/
/home/rishi/
failed
failed
failed

in my sys_info.txt
Under KDE it looks like you have trouble with FontsFolder, 
StartupItemsFolder,

TrashFolder.

I'm fairly sure the normal fonts location is: /usr/share/fonts/

My startup items folder is at: /home/rishi/.kde/Autostart/

My trash is at /home/rishi/Desktop/trash.desktop which is a shortcut 
with URL=trash:/

-
Thanks Rishi!

Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do about the success of these 
functions, since they come from RealBasic. But at least it seems that RB 
knows the difference between what it knows and what it doesn't know. The 
first 5 paths are correct, and in the case of the last 3, the paths 
couldn't be deduced although they might exist.


Another thing to be remembered is that this standard set of functions is 
used on all platforms, including Windows, so for example, I would 
imagine that "StartupItemsFolder" is more applicable to Windows than to 
Linux. Before my RB trial for Windows ran out (today, in fact), I ran 
the module for Windows and it gave me all 8 paths correctly.


With the hundreds of Linux distros out there, all with slightly 
different characteristics, I would be surprised if anyone could do much 
better than this in deducing the not-quite-so-fundamental paths such as 
e.g. the trash.


-
Rishi Viner wrote:
>
might get more info on this as freedesktop.org?
-
Great! Thanks again Rishi, I'll check it out.

Best regards,
Bob

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Re: snapshot and imageData...

[Chipp Walters]

Why not just do this?

on mouseUp
  import snapshot from rect (the screenRect)
  put length(the imagedata of img 1)

  create img
  put img 1 into img 2
end mouseUp
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Re: No Ask/Answer dialogs with 2.7.1 on XP -- 11th hour

[Chipp Walters]

Yep, Ask file and Answer file seem to be broken on XP *sometimes*. Happened
a lot for me. Haven't checked the latest beta, maybe's it's fixed.
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Application Icons

[Thomas Cole]

I was wondering if there was a place to go to get application icons for
a program I've made. In the past, I made my own, but I remember that it
was a hassle to get the right type of graphic and so on. 
Is there a place with a bunch of cool icons that I could choose from?
They would have to be royalty free items because I am going to
distribute my software. I have the new Studio License.

Thanks

Tom Cole
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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Bill Marriott]

Richard Gaskin wrote:
> Bill Marriott wrote:
>
>> You're saying that Rev's existing table object is just spiffy? Oh my, my 
>> ribs hurt from the laughter!
>
> I hate to curtail a good chuckle, but that's not what I wrote.  You might 
> have a simpler time with my posts by reading the full text of them before 
> replying.

This is definitely the pot calling the kettle black.

> - I agree with you that list display can and should be enhanced in Rev.

Good. Maybe we can leave it at that.

> - I disagree with the implication that it's a trivial effort to do so.

Better for Rev to provide such an object in highly-optimized C++ than for 
hundreds of customers to try and emulate it in Transcript. Sure it's not 
trivial -- I never implied it was. But that's why we pay for the product.

> - Database products do not also provide general GUI application
>   development, multimedia support, rich Internet connectivity,
>   and the many other things that Rev is used for.  Prioritization
>   in such a rich application is an ongoing challenge.

If I compare to applications, you cite scripting environments. If I compare 
to development environments you bring up applications. What kind of market 
segment comparison will you stick to?

> - There are many types of list and table objects, some more expensive
>   to build than others and they're not interchangeable.  A spreadsheet
>   table is very different from a database table, which is different
>   again from an html-style table.  They share some common elements,
>   but ultimately serve different purposes and require different
>   technical underpinnings.  There is no "one size fits all" table;
>   FileMaker doesn't include a spreadsheet, Excel doesn't allow controls
>   in cells, and neither provides a tree view. Prioritization of these
>   very different needs is an ongoing challenge.

You certainly can add check boxes, drop down menus, and other controls to 
Excel cells. But that's beside the point.

I selected an integrated development environment (VB Express) and detailed 
several specific facilities their general-purpose data grid control provided 
that make it a breeze to present data. That is certainly enough for me, 
light-years ahead of what Rev offers, and proved your point about there 
being a dearth of such controls to be false.

The claim that one can't offer a decent data grid because we can't decide 
whether to make it a database, a spreadsheet, a web page, or a tree control 
just obfuscates what really is a straightforward issue. You almost make it 
sound like a decent data grid is somehow incompatible with what Revolution 
is about.

> - I have no evidence that the folks at RunRev are completely ignorant
>   of these needs, and in fact we've heard comments to the contrary here,
>   at conferences, and elsewhere

Well that is good. And I suspect their reluctance to document what does 
exist also shows in a backhand way their intention to change it, someday. 
Been a few years now. But someday.

>   (though on balance I do agree with those
>   on this list who suggest that more participation here from RunRev
>   folks would be an invaluable confidence builder).

Amen to that.

> - Developers can assist prioritization through voting:
>   
>
> - Many developers are currently shipping highly profitable database
>   applications made with Rev as it is today.
>
> - I'm building an app here which handles at least 50,000 records rather
>   gracefully, all in native Transcript (if you're coming to Monterey
>   for RevCon West you're welcome to heckle my session on "The Bionic
>   App" which will discuss this program and how its solutions lend
>   themselves to a wide range of common development challenges).

I'm not about to criticize anyone who has gone through the pain of rolling 
their own solution. My point is they shouldn't have to. I hope people do 
take the time to vote for the table-related items in BugZilla. But filling 
out a proper report takes time and the overall participation in BugZilla by 
end users strikes me as quite anemic. The discussions on this list should be 
factored in as well.

>   I'm not sure where the presumed limit of 2000 records came from,
>   unless you were merely returning the favor of a good laugh.

It came from your earlier post, a very good one, where you learned:

"What I found is that the number shown above assigned to N is the max I
can create here without odd positioning of objects.  If I exceed that I
start getting row groups positioned over other row groups."

Your value for N was 2113.

> If Rev isn't up to your application's requirements you might consider 
> downloading Visual Basic Express. I hear it's free.

Since I mentioned that VBX was free in my post you're either guilty of not 
reading it completely before replying (see "pot calling kettle black," 
above) or being extra cheeky. Love the dry humor!

> VBA/Office is also an attractive multi-OS platform used for a w

Re: Photoprocessing - Brightness and Unsharp Mask

[Wilhelm Sanke]

Just found out where to place the "Bias" or "Shift" factor - an 
additional color value needed especially for relief-type filters - in 
Chipp's *no-external* script.


Unfortunately, adding this factor in the script that uses the DLL is not 
possible (it will will produce deviating results) as the factor has to 
be processed *inside* the equation for producing the new color values, 
meaning the bias factor cannot be added  to the imagedata *after* the 
DLL has been  used.


Execution time for the new no-external script (in my modified version of 
Chipp's  paradigmatic original - that takes care of the yellow-color 
shift and substitutes the use of arrays by direct addressing of 
imagedata, which in this case leads to a considerable speed gain) is 
about 10 seconds on a WindowsXP computer with 2 GHz.  This is of course 
very much slower than with a DLL or equivalent external for MacOS, but 
at any rate it may serve as an interim solution for the use of matrix 
filters with a size of 3 X 3 inside Metacard/Revolution.


The results of the use of 3 X 3-matrix filters with the new script in 
Revolution are absolutely identical to the use of equivalent filters in 
Photoshop and PaintPaint Pro. I tested this with a number of filters in 
all three applications.


Probably next week I will upload an new version of my "ImageFilterDemo" 
stack containing the new script and a number of additional useful filters.-


I repeat my requests - meanwhile supported by Richard Gaskin and 
probably others - for a DLL (and equivalent external on MacOS) for the 
use of 7 X 7-matrix filters - which of course include smaller settings 
like 3 X 3 filters - inside Revolution and the extra option for the use 
of Photoshop-compatible filters of the "8FB" type.


Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke






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Re: Application Icons

[Bill Marriott]

I use Axialis Icon Workshop to make my icons. Highly recommended! All I have 
to do is provide a hi-res PNG and it makes all the icons in all the sizes 
you need, for both Mac and Windows, in the proper format. The latest version 
even has a library of components you can use to assemble your ultimate 
custom icon!

http://www.axialis.com/

"Thomas Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was wondering if there was a place to go to get application icons for
a program I've made. In the past, I made my own, but I remember that it
was a hassle to get the right type of graphic and so on.
Is there a place with a bunch of cool icons that I could choose from?
They would have to be royalty free items because I am going to
distribute my software. I have the new Studio License. 



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Re: Application Icons

[Ken Ray]

On 6/1/06 2:54 PM, "Thomas Cole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I was wondering if there was a place to go to get application icons for
> a program I've made. In the past, I made my own, but I remember that it
> was a hassle to get the right type of graphic and so on.
> Is there a place with a bunch of cool icons that I could choose from?
> They would have to be royalty free items because I am going to
> distribute my software. I have the new Studio License.

Tom, there are several "pay for a set, use anywhere" kind of icon
collections available. Are you looking for Mac? Windows? Linux? Just
curious...

Here's a few links:

http://www.iconpacks.com/browse.php
http://www.iconexperience.com/
http://www.awicons.com/stockicons.html
http://www.freewarehome.com/Desktop/Icons/Icon_Collections_t.html


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Richard Gaskin]

Bill Marriott wrote:


- I agree with you that list display can and should be enhanced in Rev.


Good. Maybe we can leave it at that.


Well said.

I hope you'll not only continue showing people how to make the most of what 
Rev does offer with your publication and presentations, but also use your 
influence to call a "spade a spade" and champion much-needed enhancements to 
the product. 


I vote for issues in Bugzilla, but beyond that it's been made clear to 
me that I have no more influence with RunRev than anyone else.


Just the same, I'll happily continue to do what I can to help others 
make good use of the product.  While I haven't found any tool that does 
everything I'd like right now, I have found an unusually high level of 
productivity with Rev that keeps me deploying commercial apps with it 
month after month.  As long as new features keep up with my customers' 
growing needs I'll be able to keep doing so for years to come.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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Re: Application Icons

[Devin Asay]

On Jun 1, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Thomas Cole wrote:

I was wondering if there was a place to go to get application icons  
for
a program I've made. In the past, I made my own, but I remember  
that it

was a hassle to get the right type of graphic and so on.


Tom,
This is much easier with the IconFactory plugin for Photoshop. It  
will turn any graphic into properly formed .ico (win) or .ics (mac)  
files.


HTH

devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Application Icons

[Richard Gaskin]

Devin Asay wrote:
This is much easier with the IconFactory plugin for Photoshop. It  
will turn any graphic into properly formed .ico (win) or .ics (mac)  
files.


I can second that.  Every app I've made for the last two years has icons 
made with the IconFactory plugin.  Easier than anything else I've used, 
and never had a technical glitch for the output formats like I have with 
some other tools.


And if you enjoy the vectoriffic world of Fireworks they have a plugin 
for that too. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com
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RevCon Mailing List

[Dan Shafer]

We've set up a private Google group for those attending RevCon West. It
appears that at least one or two people who are on that list did not receive
the sign-up email for some reason. If you're attending and have not yet
received a number of messages, please email me PRIVATELY and I'll see that
you're added.

Sorry to bother the whole list with this but I didn't see another way to do
it.

--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

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RevCon West WILL Be Videotaped!

[Dan Shafer]

Chipp and I are happy to announce that we have hired Devin Asay and a video
team under his direction to videotape all open sessions of the upcoming
RevCon West Conference in Monterey.

Professionally recorded and edited videos of all open sessions will be made
available through Devin after the conference. The only sessions which won't
be taped are those where the speaker declines to allow taping (sometimes
they are presenting proprietary information and they don't want it broadly
disseminated) and Kevin Miller's Sunday technical briefing which is being
presented under strict non-disclosure agreement.

Devin will be popping in shortly with an announcement of how he plans to
distribute the videos and some info on pricing and timing.

Thanks Devin!

--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

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Microsoft Virtual Server

[Mark Wieder]

All-

For them as needs such a thing, it just was brought to my attention
today that Microsoft Virtual Server has been free to download since
February. This isn't quite the successor to Virtual PC, but runs in a
MS server environment and allows you to have multiple OSes.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/virtualserver/software/default.mspx

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Print Card quits no warning on Windows XP (someone verify recipe please)

[Robert Eppich]

Hello Rob and Oliver,

The following crashes my Windows XP, but not my Mac. In your multi- 
line message box, copy and paste the following:


--
create stack
set the defaultstack to the topstack
create field
set the showlines of fld 1 to true
print this card
-- Windows XP crashes

The workaround is to not have a field with both the showLines  
property and the fixedLineHeight property set to true. Turn off one  
or the other and no crash will occur.


Do you get the same results? Oliver, should this be a part of bug  
3624, or be on its own?



Thanks again everyone

Robert Eppich


From: Oliver Kenyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 1, 2006 8:22:42 AM PDT (CA)
To: Improvements to Revolution 
Subject: Re: Print Card quits without warning on Windows XP
Reply-To: Improvements to Revolution [EMAIL PROTECTED]>



Hi Robert,

I have bugzilla'd a similar problem where Revolution 2.7.x crashes on  
clicking /file->print card /for a new stack

with a scrolling field. (#3624)

Are you sure that Revolution is quitting and not crashing?



From: Rob Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Print Card quits without warning on Windows XP
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

When I selected "Print Card":
there was some delay,
then the task bar displayed a message from the printer (HP 842C)
saying the file failed to print,
then the card image printed just as I wanted it,
then I clicked on the printer icon in the task 
bar and...   the
print queue was empty.

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company


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Re: No Ask/Answer dialogs with 2.7.1 on XP

[Thomas McCarthy]

Dar, I've been experiencing stacks and answer/ask dialogs opening up _behind_ 
my front window. Even a button opening my browser, opened the browser behind 
the stack and clicking on the browser window wouldn't bring it forward. Only 
minimizing the front window helped.

Could this be related? I have a feeling it has something to do with the 
backdrop.

tm

>I've been using 2.7.1 on XP for a while and am now wrapping up a
project. Just need to do some file I/O. Only ask and answer do not
work. I get a flicker on the screen I think. Otherwise nothing.
They work on 2.7.1 on OS X.


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Re: Unicode sorting

[Dar Scott]

Wow!  Great news for sorting Unicode!

On May 30, 2006, at 5:08 PM, Devin Asay wrote:

I got your code to work by making some simple changes in the  
sortCodeFromRussian function:


Deven, I've been processing some bits of UTF-8, and something dawned  
on me that is probably known by the Unicode experts.


  A lexical byte sort of well-formed UTF-8 will result in a  
Unicode code point sort!  *


That avoids the NUL problem in sort.  That means that russianLex()  
can return the UTF-8 of the string with your character conversions.


I think the replace command will work with UTF-8, so you can even  
avoid a character loop.  All you need is 34 replaces and then a  
return.  OK, that might actually be slower than a character loop.


Dar
Unicode Sophomore


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Re: number of columns in a table field

[Josh Mellicker]

I have been working on a database front end in Rev, and in most ways  
have been happier than any other solution I've worked in. It is fast  
and reliable.


To state the obvious, I miss some things about a dedicated database  
development environment like FileMaker, but I have been slowly  
developing writing a library of functions that are increasingly  
serving as an easy and powerful layer between:


 - a card with a scrolling group of individual groups of controls,  
each subgroup representing a record in the database


 - a remote MySQL database

For example, I have a function that populates a field or option menu  
with some text data from a series of records, then sets a custom prop  
of the control to a list of the database IDs, so when the user  
selects a line in the field of an option from the menu, the database  
ID of that record is immediately accessible, yet invisible to the user.


(I feel certain I am reinventing the wheel at every step!)

I realize this is an obvious and rudimentary example, but it would be  
cool if there were a whole bunch of these functions that were  
invisible to the developer.


I know Sarah and Trevor and many others have written stacks and  
libraries that I am gradually becoming aware of, and Rev even has a  
built-in Query Builder that I just either don't like or don't get,  
but I have not found the ideal solution for being able to whip  
together a multiuser shared data solution with several cards in about  
as much time, and in as intuitive a process as FileMaker... but  
superior to FileMaker in power and flexibility and multi-user  
options, where controls hook up to their corresponding database  
records invisibly, where things like record IDs and complex JOIN SQL  
syntax are mostly invisible to the developer.


So, to summarize all this rambling, it's clear a Rev library could be  
written that made 90% of the common things people need to do with a  
shared database easy and intuitive... and then jumping in to script  
the other 10% could be done by a specialist.


If anyone has done this already or wants to plan out a library  
everyone could contribute to, let me know!


:-)

On May 31, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Jonathan Lynch wrote:



I have thought of another method, using only enough rows to be  
visible in
the table, and storing all the rest of the data in custom props -  
then, when
you scroll, it would actually just reassign the information in each  
row.
Such a thing would be tough to implement so that it actually looks  
like

normal scrolling, but I think it could be done.


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Re: Linux installation

[Mark Wieder]

Bob-

Wednesday, May 31, 2006, 1:56:47 PM, you wrote:

> If any of you have non-Debian based Linuxes installed, would you mind
> giving it a quick try? I would also be interested in knowing the 
> contents of the "sys_info.txt" output file under your different Linux
> flavour.

Well, I know you said "non-Debian", but here's what I get under
Kubuntu 6.0.6 (Dapper Drake):

error while loading shared libraries: libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0:
cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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