When they ask, what is this written in?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Chipp Walters wrote:

"The problem with "Hypercard" and "xTalk" is for many they represent
non-professional approaches to programming."

Surely only in an ever-diminishing circle of people who worked with Hypercard?

Also, as far as I am aware the language for programming Hypercard is
"HyperTalk" rather than xTalk.

Certainly, in "PC-land" very few people have heard of either Hypercard or xTalk.

I also recall, many, many years ago, some fairly dubious, non-professional
programming being done in PASCAL, FORTRAN, and so forth (err, probably in
FORTH as well); so why Hypercard should be blackened as "non-professional" 
(when, it is the people who use HC, not HC itself, who might be 
non-professional) is a bit obscure. I, personally, grew up on LEGO blocks, and 
when a "LEGO-blocklike" programming option came along I leapt at it and have 
kept with it ever since - and, do not see it in any way as 'inferior' or 
'non-professional' when compared with command-line languages. This has recently 
been hammered into my mind as I have had to see my 16 year old through the 
"joys" of PASCAL.

I program on what people who care about accuracy might like to term a 
"semi-professional level"; and as such the work I do here, in Bulgaria, is 
admired both by end-users and those who have me do programming for them. I have 
never been asked in what language I program in as people don't really care; 
what they do care about is that they end up with a fully-functional application 
that does what they want it to in the shortest possible time: AND, SURELY, that 
is the point, rather than worrying overmuch about how to explain how one works 
one's "Magic Spells"!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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preserve custom folder icons in OSX

[Scott Morrow]

I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to  
reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as  
I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to  
be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with  
everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit out  
elsewhere.


If I understand correctly, the folder icon is controlled by an  
invisible file named "Icon"&CR  (often referred to as "Icon\r") which  
contains an icon resource ("icns",-16455). Additionally, I believe the  
folder itself needs to have a flag set in order for it to accept this  
icon.


I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside  
the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the  
carriage return.


I haven't tried to figure out the folder flag yet.  Any suggestions  
gladly accepted.


Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   http://elementarysoftware.com/
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--




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The "stinking truth".

[Richmond Mathewson]

Sorry, I cannot see anything 'stinky' or inadequate about saying what Runtime 
Revolution is. 

I know that "Dropping your drawers and mooning them is a good way to
make a name for yourself" (having done the written equivalent of that on 
this list in the past); but I don't see what that has to do with what to 
call the language inside Runtime Revolution.

As to "ass clowns" . . . certainly very few of them contribute to the
Runtime Revolution Use-List methinks.

Mikey write:

"The tone is merely a vehicle to illustrate the point plainly."

Been there, Done that; and guess where it got me? All that sort of tone
serves to do is rub people up the wrong way and turn them right off your
'plain point'. A spade may well be a 'spade', rather than a 'manually 
operated soil remover', but we don't have to call it a 'f***ing shovel'.

I still think there is a lot to be said for 'RexTalk'.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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How do you handle an engine update for your app?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hello,

when building an automatic update function in your app, which checks the
internet for updates, I think the common approach is to have a splash stack,
which does all the checking, downloading and replacing of the needed files.
After having replaced the update files, including possibly your main stack,
the splash stack launches the main stack and you have the newest version. So
far so good.

But what do you do, if you want to exchange your splash stack it self? What
I am thinking about is, now I am building my app with Rev 3.0. When building
the standalone the splash stack contains the rev engine 3.0. In my case
using the brush tool has a bug (reported earlier), what seems to be in the
engine itself and not in the brush image pattern (which could be linked to
own images in other stacks). The splash stack doesn't uses the brush, but
the Rev engine, supplying the brush tool is in the splash stack. So
hopefully, when releasing Rev 3.x my brush bug is fixed and I could build a
new standalone of my splash stack. But I can't replace "myself"?

What are your approaches to organise this issue?

Thanks

Tiemo

 

 

 

 

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Re: Rev 3 fails to build with Stack Password set ?

[camm29]

Has anybody confirmed this ?
Is it a Bug ?

Regards


 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> If a Stack contains ANSWER Dialog and you set a password for the Stack in 
> Standalone settings if fails to buildin Rev 3 ?
> 
> This is no a problem in Rev 2.8
> 
> Regards
> Camm
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Re: How do you handle an engine update for your app?

[Trevor DeVore]

On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:17 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:


But what do you do, if you want to exchange your splash stack it self?
What are your approaches to organise this issue?


The current approach I use on Windows is to launch a VBScript and then  
quit the main application. The VBScript waits for the application to  
quit and then copies over the new install files (including the new  
executable) and then launches the new exe.


On OS X you can update your entire application on disk while still  
running so I just wrote a little command line program that the updater  
calls right before quitting. The command line program just relaunches  
the app after a few seconds. If I was better at shell scripts I would  
write one that watched for the application to quit and then relaunch  
but I haven't gotten around to that yet.


If you need code examples I can point you at the files to look at in  
the GLX Application Framework.


Regards,

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Luis]

Hiya,

Dunno, but 'RexTalk', for me, elicits the sounds a T Rex might  
make... if it could talk...


Cheers,

Luis.


On 30 Nov 2008, at 22:27, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


It's what HyperCard could have been if Apple had more crunch!

Personally I like "xTalk", so why not call the Runtime Revolution  
dialect


RexTalk ?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development  
Life Cycle.





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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Mark Smith]

Just recently, I told one company I'm working with that I'm using a  
scripting language called revolution. They didn't seem worried.


Perhaps the phrase "scripting language" might once have caused  
concern, but given the prevalence of perl, php, ruby and python, I  
don't think it worries many people these days.


best,

Mark

On 1 Dec 2008, at 15:35, Luis wrote:


Hiya,

Dunno, but 'RexTalk', for me, elicits the sounds a T Rex might  
make... if it could talk...


Cheers,

Luis.


On 30 Nov 2008, at 22:27, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


It's what HyperCard could have been if Apple had more crunch!

Personally I like "xTalk", so why not call the Runtime Revolution  
dialect


RexTalk ?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development  
Life Cycle.





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Re: How do you handle an engine update for your app?

[Dave Cragg]

On 1 Dec 2008, at 13:17, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

What are your approaches to organise this issue?


Here is the rough outline of an approach I've used before.

-- Build a standalone to act as the updater. The new "engine file" is  
contained in a custom property of this standalone.


-- Have the current application download the updater standalone.  
(place it in a temp location.)


-- Launch the updater standalone.

-- Quit the current application.

-- The updater standalone deletes the current application, installs  
the new one, and launches the new one. (Probably add a delay of a few  
seconds before deleting the current application so it has time to  
fully quit.)


-- The updater application quits.

-- In the new application, include a routine to delete files from the  
temp location, either at startup or shutdown.


Possible problems:

The user must have write permissions to the location where the  
application is to be installed. But as this also affects the original  
installation, it's probably not a problem. But you might want to only  
make the Update feature available to users with appropriate write  
permissions.


There may be restrictions/warnings/etc. after downloading an  
executable. You probably should compress the Updater Standalone and  
decompress it in the temp location from within the current  
application. (That might not be enough.)


This needs appropriate functionality in the current application. So if  
you want to update an application that is installed now, and it  
doesn't contain the appropriate functionality, you need another  
approach. ;-)


Cheers
Dave
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Re: The "stinking truth".

[Mikey]

Thanks for proving the point, Richard.  That reaction was exactly what
I was trying to illicit.  If someone acts defensive, the reaction is
negative, i.e. harsh begets distance.
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Smith wrote:
Just recently, I told one company I'm working with that I'm using a  
scripting language called revolution. They didn't seem worried.


Perhaps the phrase "scripting language" might once have caused  
concern, but given the prevalence of perl, php, ruby and python, I  
don't think it worries many people these days.


True, I think the plethora of very capable VHLs has brought us to a sort 
of Golden Age for scripting.  At last we get some respect. :)


For years I've been referring folks to this article that I first came 
across via Scott Raney:


Scripting: Higher Level Programming
for the 21st Century
John K. Ousterhout


While focused on TCL, all the arguments he makes there for the inherent 
productivity of typeless languages applies equally well to Transcript.


More recently Geoff Canyon turned me on to this one:

In Praise of Scripting:  Real Programming Pragmatism
Ronald P. Loui


When I get some free time (yeah, right), I plan to put these and other 
references together into a "Why Revolution?" article for my site.


I think Rev offers a unique blend of strengths that even in spite of its 
weaknesses make it a strong candidate for a broad range of 
vertical-market applications.  It doesn't take much nudging to present a 
good case for it, but hopefully such an article will simplify such 
conversations.


In the meantime, perhaps the strongest case could be made by simply 
getting the good folks at RunRev to flesh out their listing of apps made 
with Rev.  Nothing makes a more compelling argument than tangible results.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: The "stinking truth".

[Richard Gaskin]

Mikey wrote:


Thanks for proving the point, Richard.  That reaction was exactly what
I was trying to illicit.  If someone acts defensive, the reaction is
negative, i.e. harsh begets distance.


I apologize for any feather-ruffling; not my intention.  I think we just 
have a simple misunderstanding here.


I wrote:


Mikey wrote:


Tell them the stinking truth - the engine is open source with
commercial IDE/RAD toolkit built on top of it, and even that is open
source.


?

The Rev engine is close-source, as it's been since MetaCard 1.0.




5) Insulting C++ or M$ or Java is a Very Bad Idea


"M$"

:)



On the first item, I was merely expressing that I didn't understand your 
point about the engine being "open source".  As far as I know that's not 
"the stinking truth" but rather the opposite, so I must admit I don't 
understand what you meant there.


On the second, I merely quoted your use of "M$", a common shorthand 
pejorative for "Microsoft".  If we are to avoid dissing other 
tools/vendors, it would seem helpful to avoid such pejoratives (though I 
can appreciate how difficult they may be to resist in the case a company 
with so many anti-trust convictions against them).



For the record, when discussing alternatives for development tools with 
potential clients of course I'm somewhat less candid about my personal 
opinions than I feel comfortable being here in this lion's den of Rev 
converts.


But booked with long-term contracts, it's not often I have such 
conversations anyway, and my current clients share pretty much the same 
opinions.


When discussing tools in articles at my sites or in print, I generally 
support your view that it's more productive to accentuate the positive.


I think we're in agreement here.  Sorry if it appeared otherwise.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Neal Campbell]

Over the past several months I have been studying a lot, looking for
the perfect language that I enjoyed for working on desktop
applications as well as RIA/Web applications. The languages I have
purchased/used/enjoyed include:
Delphi 2009
C# 3.0
Realbasic 2008
Revolution
Ruby
Python
Objective C
Adobe Flex/Actionscript 3
Lua
Ni

If you really look at these, they are all slowly drifting towards
commonality. They all started at different points but with each
iteration of features, they are beginning to look alike. Compare C#
and Actionscript for instance, you cannot hardly tell which is which
(and throw java in there also).

My point is that languages are irrelevant as far as users are
concerned. They were more relevant 10 years ago as the limitations
were pretty visible. There is an argument that vendor-native languages
have an advantage (C#/VB .net on Windows or Objective C for OS X).
These languages enjoy the greatest amount of native look-feel early in
the game but the others catch up pretty quickly.

The language selection is important for us though, both in terms of
speed of development, unit testing capability and ease of deployment.

The other thing is that with RESTful/SOAP/RPC-XML/AMFPHP/etc,
standardized frameworks are actually becoming more strategic in
architecture decision making, not language. Much of the Business
Intelligence can now reside there, segregating the "View" to whatever
language you find best to draw on the screen.

I somehow sense a feeling of "second-class" amongst some when using
Rev. Rev is to the original Hypercard what PC Basic was to VB .net. If
anyone has taken a spin with VB .net 2008, its as complex/difficult as
C#. The old joke that the difference between C++ and VB was 3 months
has long gone. After 2 months of trying it, I decided C# was an easier
language!

Code on Revvers!

Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
-
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Richard Gaskin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark Smith wrote:
>>
>> Just recently, I told one company I'm working with that I'm using a
>>  scripting language called revolution. They didn't seem worried.
>>
>> Perhaps the phrase "scripting language" might once have caused  concern,
>> but given the prevalence of perl, php, ruby and python, I  don't think it
>> worries many people these days.
>
> True, I think the plethora of very capable VHLs has brought us to a sort of
> Golden Age for scripting.  At last we get some respect. :)
>
> For years I've been referring folks to this article that I first came across
> via Scott Raney:
>
> Scripting: Higher Level Programming
> for the 21st Century
> John K. Ousterhout
> 
>
> While focused on TCL, all the arguments he makes there for the inherent
> productivity of typeless languages applies equally well to Transcript.
>
> More recently Geoff Canyon turned me on to this one:
>
> In Praise of Scripting:  Real Programming Pragmatism
> Ronald P. Loui
> 
>
> When I get some free time (yeah, right), I plan to put these and other
> references together into a "Why Revolution?" article for my site.
>
> I think Rev offers a unique blend of strengths that even in spite of its
> weaknesses make it a strong candidate for a broad range of vertical-market
> applications.  It doesn't take much nudging to present a good case for it,
> but hopefully such an article will simplify such conversations.
>
> In the meantime, perhaps the strongest case could be made by simply getting
> the good folks at RunRev to flesh out their listing of apps made with Rev.
>  Nothing makes a more compelling argument than tangible results.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  ___
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> ___
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> preferences:
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AW: How do you handle an engine update for your app?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi Trevor,
I'll think about it and perhaps come back
Thank you
Tiemo
> 
> If you need code examples I can point you at the files to look at in
> the GLX Application Framework.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Learning Systems
> ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
> Developer Resources: http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com
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> subscription preferences:
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Check and close a program

[Mark Stuart]

Hi Tareq,

Read the Windows Registry, using the following Key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows
NT\CurrentVersion\CurrentVersion

Valid values = (5, 5.1, 6)

Where: 5 = Win2000, 5.1 = WinXP, 6 = Vista

 

If it = 5.1 OR 6 (Vista), then use: "taskkill /IM ExecutableName.exe"

This will kill/stop ALL sessions of the same exe name.

 

For more info:

Open a DOS box and type in: taskkill /?

You will see all the / options.

 

Sorry, I don't the executable name for Win2000, which is different.



HTH,

Mark Stuart


Tareq wrote:

Hi everybody,
I'm to tryin' to find a way to stop a program or an
executable from the process tab of windows task 
manager. Is there any simple way to do that by
scripting a btn? The executable may be rev app or
others. Thanks in advance... 

 

  

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AW: How do you handle an engine update for your app?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hello Dave,
your approach brought me another idea.
What about if I would always have two "launching" standalones one behind the
other. First one only to check and do the updates, calling the second
standalone and quitting. The second standalone is nothing else, as a carrier
of the standalone engine, splash screen and what else wanted and calls the
main stack.
If this works I could always update the newest engine with the second
standalone and the only thing what I can't do with this approach is to
update the first standalone. Assuming that I don't want to change anything
in the update procedure, this would be the easiest way.
Am I sure that this way, my main stack will be handled by the engine of the
second standalone, or would it still be handled by the engine of the first
standalone?
Thank you
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Dave Cragg
> Gesendet: Montag, 1. Dezember 2008 16:45
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: How do you handle an engine update for your app?
> 
> 
> On 1 Dec 2008, at 13:17, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> > What are your approaches to organise this issue?
> 
> Here is the rough outline of an approach I've used before.
> 
> -- Build a standalone to act as the updater. The new "engine file" is
> contained in a custom property of this standalone.
> 
> -- Have the current application download the updater standalone.
> (place it in a temp location.)
> 
> -- Launch the updater standalone.
> 
> -- Quit the current application.
> 
> -- The updater standalone deletes the current application, installs
> the new one, and launches the new one. (Probably add a delay of a few
> seconds before deleting the current application so it has time to
> fully quit.)
> 
> -- The updater application quits.
> 
> -- In the new application, include a routine to delete files from the
> temp location, either at startup or shutdown.
> 
> Possible problems:
> 
> The user must have write permissions to the location where the
> application is to be installed. But as this also affects the original
> installation, it's probably not a problem. But you might want to only
> make the Update feature available to users with appropriate write
> permissions.
> 
> There may be restrictions/warnings/etc. after downloading an
> executable. You probably should compress the Updater Standalone and
> decompress it in the temp location from within the current
> application. (That might not be enough.)
> 
> This needs appropriate functionality in the current application. So if
> you want to update an application that is installed now, and it
> doesn't contain the appropriate functionality, you need another
> approach. ;-)
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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one launcher - many links

[viktoras didziulis]

hello! just wanted to ask what strategies can be used to solve the 
following issue 'correctly':
there is one launcher (compiled stack) and several modules (ordinary 
stacks). I would need to add several shortcuts to the Windows start 
menu/MacOSX applications folder pointing to same loader stack, but 
instructing it to load different module stack. How can this be done ?


best regards and thanks for any hints !
Viktoras
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Re: The "stinking truth".

[Mikey]

> I apologize for any feather-ruffling; not my intention.  I think we just
> have a simple misunderstanding here.

Absolutely not.  I tried to write my original email several times
before I settled on TRYING to ruffle feathers to try to prove a point,
so if I didn't ruffle any then I suck.

Apparently I don't understand the state of things, because it was my
understanding that the MC engine was generally sufficient for what
we're doing.  At least the second part, about the IDE, is correct.
Obviously by "open source" I don't mean you can license it or use it
or whatever, but you can hack it, thus the source for the IDE is open,
i.e. interpreted, and the engine still operates if you change it.  To
repeat, I thought that the crux of the engine was open source (in this
case, OS means that you can get the source and compile it for
yourself).

You're absolutely correct that referring to M$ instead of MS is doing
exactly what I was preaching against, and it is behavior that I do not
tolerate from vendors.  In technical discussions, though, it is, IMHO
easier to identify than MS, because there is no known (to me anyway)
alternative meaning to the abbreviation, so I have taken to using it
when referring to that firm.
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Sadhunathan Nadesan]

> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Part of the reason is that I use it mainly just as a stand alone scripting
language without the IDE, for the kinds of tasks I might use Bash shell
script for - (or Perl if I felt more affinity for it) when it happens
to be better suited _for me_, for the solution needed.  Examples: to
parse text, for CGI programs, data conversions, wrapper around SQL,
and so forth.

-- Sadhu
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Slider. i miss something ?

[Ludovic Thébault]

Hello,

It's not possible to force a slider to scroll only at pageinc ?  
(scroll only by multiple of 5 for example)


Thx.

PS : Rev 2.9.1
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[viktoras didziulis]

what about recursive acronym like XIR meaning Xtalk Is Revolution (which 
is correct in many senses). Language names like Rex, R are already 
reserved and I do not know any language called XIR which is both Xtalk 
and Revolution and everyone is happy :-)))


Viktoras

Sadhunathan Nadesan wrote:

Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.




I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Part of the reason is that I use it mainly just as a stand alone scripting
language without the IDE, for the kinds of tasks I might use Bash shell
script for - (or Perl if I felt more affinity for it) when it happens
to be better suited _for me_, for the solution needed.  Examples: to
parse text, for CGI programs, data conversions, wrapper around SQL,
and so forth.

-- Sadhu
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[viktoras didziulis]

sorry it is not recursive, but still acronym anyway...

viktoras didziulis wrote:

what about recursive acronym like XIR


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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Mark Brownell]

I agree that it's bad practice to draw attention to what you use in a defensive 
way or in criticizing other well known methods. I also see the logic in not 
using name overloading when describing RR, Rev, and Revolution as being a 
trinity of modern symbolism. I always ask, "what would you like it written in?"

How about "Runtime Revolution" the company, "RevEngine" the IDE, and "Rv+" the 
language?

You can say what ever you want to even if they don't in Scotland. You could 
just say "that's what we say in the community."




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Re: The "stinking truth".

[Richard Gaskin]

Mikey wrote:


I apologize for any feather-ruffling; not my intention.  I think we just
have a simple misunderstanding here.


Absolutely not.  I tried to write my original email several times
before I settled on TRYING to ruffle feathers to try to prove a point,
so if I didn't ruffle any then I suck.


Uh, ok.  I still don't understand the point, but I'm pre-coffee and 
happy to let it be.



Apparently I don't understand the state of things, because it was my
understanding that the MC engine was generally sufficient for what
we're doing.  At least the second part, about the IDE, is correct.


The misunderstanding here is simply that the MC engine *is* the Rev 
engine.


It began life in 1992 under the name "MetaCard", back when it was owned 
and maintained by Scott Raney's MetaCard Corp.


While it was still owned by MetaCard Corp., Kevin Miller's company at 
the time, Crossworlds Computing, built a nifty alternative IDE for it, 
and arranged a licensing agreement with MC Corp to distribute the engine 
with their IDE for a much lower licensing fee to their customers in 
consideration for Crossworlds providing support for it.


Later, Kevin et al formed a new company under the name Runtime 
Revolution Ltd., and in 2003 acquired the rights to the MC engine and 
its source, rebranding it as "Revolution":



Since RunRev Ltd. had their own IDE they had no use for MC's more 
"primitive" one, so MC Corp retained the rights to that IDE and worked 
with their loyal customers to arrange for it to be maintained under an 
open source license (X11, aka "MIT License").  Under those terms, MC 
Corp. remains the copyright holder of all portions of the original code 
that are still in the MC IDE today (most of it, although a couple dozen 
of us have been contributing bits here and there, with Klaus Major doing 
most of the heavy lifting in recent years - thanks Klaus!), but also 
allowing the project to be forked and any portion of it to be used for 
any non-commercial or even commercial work if desired.  In fact, we 
chose the X11 license (as opposed to LGPL and some others with 
derivative use restrictions) specifically in anticipation of the 
possibility that we might come up with something there that could be 
useful to RunRev, so they would be fully protected if they chose to take 
advantage of anything in it; a modest consideration in exchange for 
their good work in maintaining and enhancing the engine running.


In 2006 RunRev strengthened their engine licensing security in a way 
which makes it easier for third parties to create their own IDEs.  Today 
it's relatively simple for anyone to create the custom environment of 
their dreams, while the engine itself requires only that a Rev 
installation has been successfully licensed on that machine.  Win-win 
for all:  RunRev ensures their revenue for the engine license, while we 
get total freedom in our workflows (a brilliant move, Mr. Waddingham - 
thanks!).


So while the MC IDE is open source, and anyone can make any other stacks 
they like within the Rev license terms, to run any of these still 
requires the proprietary closed-source Rev engine.




Obviously by "open source" I don't mean you can license it or use it
or whatever, but you can hack it, thus the source for the IDE is open,
i.e. interpreted, and the engine still operates if you change it.  To
repeat, I thought that the crux of the engine was open source (in this
case, OS means that you can get the source and compile it for
yourself).


Only the MC IDE, and any stacks you might make on your own, enjoy those 
freedoms.  For practical business reasons, the engine that drives it 
relies on source code not made publicly available.




You're absolutely correct that referring to M$ instead of MS is doing
exactly what I was preaching against, and it is behavior that I do not
tolerate from vendors.  In technical discussions, though, it is, IMHO
easier to identify than MS, because there is no known (to me anyway)
alternative meaning to the abbreviation, so I have taken to using it
when referring to that firm.


I suppose to be fairest we might just use "Microsoft". :)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Phil Davis]

Mark Brownell wrote:

I agree that it's bad practice to draw attention to what you use in a defensive way or in 
criticizing other well known methods. I also see the logic in not using name overloading 
when describing RR, Rev, and Revolution as being a trinity of modern symbolism. I always 
ask, "what would you like it written in?"

How about "Runtime Revolution" the company, "RevEngine" the IDE, and "Rv+" the 
language?

You can say what ever you want to even if they don't in Scotland. You could just say 
"that's what we say in the community."
  


"The community"... the fact that there IS a community is key. I think 
one of the most pressing concerns among business folks who pay the bill 
for us to develop their apps in Rev is one of continuity. As a client of 
mine said last week:
Suppose you decided to chuck it all and join a country band in 
Nashville, never to return to your former life and donating all 
material possessions to your daughter.  What would I do?  We are 
standing naked here (an ugly thought at best).


Since there is a Rev developer community, project continuity is 
achievable even if some developers disappear. I was able to talk my 
client down from the ledge (metaphorically) on that basis.

--
Phil Davis

PDS Labs
Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net

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RE: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Randall Reetz]

You cant use "xTalk" without ruining the credibility of your company.  xTalk is 
the generic universal lable for the whole smalltalk spawned event and object 
handler driven scripting lnguage family.  The only reasonable and obvious 
choice is "revTalk".

-Original Message-
From: "Sadhunathan Nadesan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Sent: 12/1/2008 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: When they ask, what is this written in?


> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Part of the reason is that I use it mainly just as a stand alone scripting
language without the IDE, for the kinds of tasks I might use Bash shell
script for - (or Perl if I felt more affinity for it) when it happens
to be better suited _for me_, for the solution needed.  Examples: to
parse text, for CGI programs, data conversions, wrapper around SQL,
and so forth.

-- Sadhu
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Re: The "stinking truth".

[Marian Petrides, MD]

Richard

Thanks for the illuminating history of RunRev.

M
On Dec 1, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:




The misunderstanding here is simply that the MC engine *is* the Rev  
engine.


It began life in 1992 under the name "MetaCard", back when it was  
owned and maintained by Scott Raney's MetaCard Corp.


While it was still owned by MetaCard Corp., Kevin Miller's company  
at the time, Crossworlds Computing, built a nifty alternative IDE  
for it, and arranged a licensing agreement with MC Corp to  
distribute the engine with their IDE for a much lower licensing fee  
to their customers in consideration for Crossworlds providing  
support for it.


Later, Kevin et al formed a new company under the name Runtime  
Revolution Ltd., and in 2003 acquired the rights to the MC engine  
and its source, rebranding it as "Revolution":



Since RunRev Ltd. had their own IDE they had no use for MC's more  
"primitive" one, so MC Corp retained the rights to that IDE and  
worked with their loyal customers to arrange for it to be maintained  
under an open source license (X11, aka "MIT License").  Under those  
terms, MC Corp. remains the copyright holder of all portions of the  
original code that are still in the MC IDE today (most of it,  
although a couple dozen of us have been contributing bits here and  
there, with Klaus Major doing most of the heavy lifting in recent  
years - thanks Klaus!), but also allowing the project to be forked  
and any portion of it to be used for any non-commercial or even  
commercial work if desired.  In fact, we chose the X11 license (as  
opposed to LGPL and some others with derivative use restrictions)  
specifically in anticipation of the possibility that we might come  
up with something there that could be useful to RunRev, so they  
would be fully protected if they chose to take advantage of anything  
in it; a modest consideration in exchange for their good work in  
maintaining and enhancing the engine running.


In 2006 RunRev strengthened their engine licensing security in a way  
which makes it easier for third parties to create their own IDEs.   
Today it's relatively simple for anyone to create the custom  
environment of their dreams, while the engine itself requires only  
that a Rev installation has been successfully licensed on that  
machine.  Win-win for all:  RunRev ensures their revenue for the  
engine license, while we get total freedom in our workflows (a  
brilliant move, Mr. Waddingham - thanks!).


So while the MC IDE is open source, and anyone can make any other  
stacks they like within the Rev license terms, to run any of these  
still requires the proprietary closed-source Rev engine.

.



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Text-y thing-y.

[Richmond Mathewson]

Just uploaded "Text Bash" to revOnline 

( find it under 'Richmond' - surprise, surprise )

simplistic nonsense with text fields,
might be useful, you never know.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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Re: The "stinking truth".

[Mikey]

> I suppose to be fairest we might just use "Microsoft". :)
Too much typing.  Which is why C++ is so popular
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Hugh Senior]

Richmond wrote
> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)

Sadhu wrote
> I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Unfortunately xTalk, XTalk, X-Talk (or however you want to spell it) is
already part of the programming language landscape to cover any scripting
language from HyperCard onwards. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTalk

My current preference (of no intrinsic value at all, but of no less value
than anyone else's) is 'RevCode' for the language and 'Revolution' for the
IDE. Revolution is thus distinct from MetaCard for those of us who prefer
that environment, and RevCode seems to have an appropriate ring to it for
those with 'traditionalist expectations'. I wish I could claim I thought of
the term but someone else on this list did, so well done to him/her!

/H

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When they ask, what is this written in?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Hey-Ho:

What I wrote was:

"Personally I like "xTalk", so why not call the Runtime Revolution dialect
RexTalk ?"

Nothing like selective quoting (or quoting myself, come to that)!

The reason I would favour 'RexTalk' or 'RevTalk' is that, while showing
that the programming language is linked to Runtime Revolution it, also,
shows its history (its etymology, if you will).

I am well aware that 'xTalk' is a generic term covering HyperTalk and 
the family of derived dialects such as SuperTalk, MetaTalk and the
strangely nameless dialect we are all scratching our heads about in this 
Use-List discussion. However as 'xTalk' includes Runtime Revolution's
programming language amongst its dialects why not have a name for it
that indicates that relationship?

I am aware that there is a lot of slightly misplaced snobbery about
using 'Code' rather than 'Talk', as 'Talk' is somehow perceived as
babyish, while 'Code' is a hairy-chested word used by 'real' programmers.

However, I, at the tender age of 46, am past the type of adolescent 
posturing that worries about the comparatively empty semantics behind
'Code' and 'Talk' - come to think of it, I noticed that some of my chest 
hairs have turned white just the other day :)

'RevTalk' or 'RexTalk' would suit me fine; but I feel that 'endless
fruitless discussion' might not.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Paul Looney]

On Dec 1, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


'Talk' is somehow perceived as
babyish, while 'Code' is a hairy-chested word used by 'real'  
programmers.


I can think of no better reason for using "Code".
The product must be sold. Sales are based on perception. "Code" is  
perceived as real programming.


RunRev, Ltd. - for the company
Rev - for the IDE
RevCode - for the language

Paul Looney
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When they ask, what is this written in?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Mark Swindell wrote:

"Transcript is a good name for the language."

No it isn't because it has no obvious link with Runtime Revolution.

"Maybe Transit would be good for the IDE.  It certainly gets you from one
 place to another."

2 rather nebulous names could give an extremely nebulous idea!

Now 'Runtime Revolution' is an extremely punchy name,
so the programming language need something similarly punchy
as a name:

Revolt ?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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Re: Slider. i miss something ?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Ludovic,

This is impossible, but you can make a script that sets the thumbPos  
to the nearest rounded value in the scrollbarDrag handler.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Color Converter has been updated! Get it at
http://colorconverter.economy-x-talk.com !

On 1 dec 2008, at 19:06, Ludovic Thébault wrote:


Hello,

It's not possible to force a slider to scroll only at pageinc ?  
(scroll only by multiple of 5 for example)


Thx.

PS : Rev 2.9.1



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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Mark Swindell]

Transcript is a good name for the language.   Maybe Transit would be  
good for the IDE.  It certainly gets you from one place to another.

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Re: Slider. i miss something ?

[Eric Chatonet]

Bonsoir Ludovic,

I wrote a tiny tutorial after a discussion with Richard Gaskin and  
some others that could help you:

It is named 'How to Manage "Snap to" Scrollbars'
How to manage a slider snap-to behavior to make sure that the  
indicator lines up with the ticks on Mac OS X.


You will access this tutorial through "Tutorials Picker" a free  
plugin that interfaces with the So Smart Software website in order to  
display all available tutorials stacks directly from the web.

You will find it by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Revolution/Plugins or Tutorials section.

Le 1 déc. 08 à 19:06, Ludovic Thébault a écrit :


Hello,

It's not possible to force a slider to scroll only at pageinc ?  
(scroll only by multiple of 5 for example)


Thx.


Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Robert Brenstein]

On 01/12/08 at 13:18 -0800 Richmond Mathewson apparently wrote:

Mark Swindell wrote:

"Transcript is a good name for the language."

No it isn't because it has no obvious link with Runtime Revolution.



Why must there be a connection?

Despite all the marketing justification, I firmly believe that using 
the same name for everything is confusing on the long term. 
Transcript was a reasonable and, importantly, a long established 
name. Revolution has always been and will always be bad for googling.


Robert
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Re: difference between function and command and sending parameters

[william humphrey]

I noticed that you can't return a mix of an array and a variable. This
doesn't work (it only works if the params are both simple variables or if
you only have one parm - the array) :

*on* mouseUp

   *put* the first item of MyTest() into myArray

   *put* the keys of myArray

*end* mouseUp


*function* MyTest

   *put* "app" into pfirst[1]

   *put* "win" into pfirst[2]

   *put* "lin" into pfirst[3]

   *put* 2 into psecond

   *return* pfirst, psecond

*end* MyTest


I needed to do something like the above as the second parameter held a
different data item so now I'm trying to figure out another way to do it.
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When they ask, what is this written in?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Dear Robert Brenstein, there was no "apparently" about things, I wrote
what I wrote.

However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-

The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that I use:

"Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."

No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who are not
satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30 minutes 
while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
"Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."

As I have spent 90% of my adult life outwith my country of origin
the word 'Transcript' will always be linked in my mind with standing in queues 
at embassies and various other state institutions with academic
transcript with stamps, seals, apostils and much, much more. 

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Alex Tweedly]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

Hey-Ho:

What I wrote was:

"Personally I like "xTalk", so why not call the Runtime Revolution dialect
RexTalk ?"
  
Because it's confusingly close to Rexx (an old favourite scripting 
language from another universe ...)


-- Alex.
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Chipp Walters]

I'm sure that's the case in Bulgaria, but here in the US, most every
tech person I come in contact with over the age of 35 has heard of and
remembers Hypercard. It's not necessary they actually ever worked with
HC, only that it came from Apple and was considered a 'toy' by many.
Neither good when trying to 'sell' a project.

I'm like Richard. I rarely if ever have to defend RR as I've got some
long standing Rev projects in the works. I was only responding to the
originator of this thread regarding the subject:
"When they ask, what is this written in?"

Sorry to engage you-- Not necessary to respond.

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:24 AM, Richmond Mathewson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Surely only in an ever-diminishing circle of people who worked with Hypercard?
> Certainly, in "PC-land" very few people have heard of either Hypercard or 
> xTalk.
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Robert Brenstein]

On 01/12/08 at 14:22 -0800 Richmond Mathewson apparently wrote:

Dear Robert Brenstein, there was no "apparently" about things, I wrote
what I wrote.

However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-

The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that I use:

"Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."

No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who are not
satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30 minutes
while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
"Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."


Having a separate name for the language does not change any of the above.


As I have spent 90% of my adult life outwith my country of origin
the word 'Transcript' will always be linked in my mind with standing 
in queues at embassies and various other state institutions with 
academic

transcript with stamps, seals, apostils and much, much more.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


Considering the audience of the language, I doubt that many people 
have such a connotation.


r
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Sqlite remotely

[hershel fisch]

Hi, how would be the appropriate way if there is, to work with SQLite
remotely?
Hershel Fisch

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RE: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Randall Reetz]

I'm so sick of this thread... My new nomination is "ExTalk".  What is wrong 
with RevTalk?  It's the most natural name.  But, if we really want to be cool, 
how bout a play on the rotational meaning of the word revolution... "Spin".

-Original Message-
From: "Hugh Senior" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Sent: 12/1/2008 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

Richmond wrote
> Personally I like "xTalk", (snip)

Sadhu wrote
> I vote for xTalk or X-talk.

Unfortunately xTalk, XTalk, X-Talk (or however you want to spell it) is
already part of the programming language landscape to cover any scripting
language from HyperCard onwards. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTalk

My current preference (of no intrinsic value at all, but of no less value
than anyone else's) is 'RevCode' for the language and 'Revolution' for the
IDE. Revolution is thus distinct from MetaCard for those of us who prefer
that environment, and RevCode seems to have an appropriate ring to it for
those with 'traditionalist expectations'. I wish I could claim I thought of
the term but someone else on this list did, so well done to him/her!

/H

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Re: difference between function and command and sending parameters

[Mark Smith]

William, if your example is as simple as it seems, I'd probaly not  
bother with an array, and use chunks instead,

However, for bigger data I'd do something like this, in Rev 3.0

on mouseUp
  put myTest() into tBigArray
  put tBigArray[1] into myArray
  put tBigArray[2] into mySimpleVariable
  put the keys of myArray
end mouseUp 


function  myTest
  put "app" into tArray[1][1]
  put "win" into tArray[1][2]
  pit "lin" into tArray[1][3]
  put 2 into tArray[2]
  return tArray
end myTest

If you're still pre-3.0 then something like

on mouseUp
  put myTest() into tArray
  put tArray["othervalue"] into mySimpleVariable
  delete variable tArray["othervalue"]
  put the keys of tArray
end mouseUp

function myTest
  put "app" into tArray[1]
  put "win" into tArray[2]
  put "lin" into tArray[3]
  put 2 into tArray["othervalue"]
end myTest

best,

Mark

On 1 Dec 2008, at 22:19, william humphrey wrote:


I noticed that you can't return a mix of an array and a variable. This
doesn't work (it only works if the params are both simple variables  
or if

you only have one parm - the array) :

*on* mouseUp

   *put* the first item of MyTest() into myArray

   *put* the keys of myArray

*end* mouseUp


*function* MyTest

   *put* "app" into pfirst[1]

   *put* "win" into pfirst[2]

   *put* "lin" into pfirst[3]

   *put* 2 into psecond

   *return* pfirst, psecond

*end* MyTest


I needed to do something like the above as the second parameter held a
different data item so now I'm trying to figure out another way to  
do it.

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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Neal Campbell]

To end the thread, my final answer is
"In my office"
#B->

Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
-
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Robert Brenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 01/12/08 at 14:22 -0800 Richmond Mathewson apparently wrote:
>>
>> Dear Robert Brenstein, there was no "apparently" about things, I wrote
>> what I wrote.
>>
>> However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-
>>
>> The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that I
>> use:
>>
>> "Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."
>>
>> No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
>> most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who are not
>> satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30 minutes
>> while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
>> "Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."
>
> Having a separate name for the language does not change any of the above.
>
>> As I have spent 90% of my adult life outwith my country of origin
>> the word 'Transcript' will always be linked in my mind with standing in
>> queues at embassies and various other state institutions with academic
>> transcript with stamps, seals, apostils and much, much more.
>>
>> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>
> Considering the audience of the language, I doubt that many people have such
> a connotation.
>
> r
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Luis]

Excellent! That's a keeper!

Cheers,

Luis.


Neal Campbell wrote:

To end the thread, my final answer is
"In my office"
#B->

Neal Campbell
Abroham Neal Software
Programming Services for Windows, OS X and Linux
(540) 242 0911
-
Try Spot for OS X, the intelligent DXCluster Client at
www.abrohamnealsoftware.com -  $15.99
-
For a great dog book, visit www.abrohamneal.com
-
See the FlexRadio Systems Flex-5000a in
action at www.flex-videos.com




On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:03 PM, Robert Brenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 01/12/08 at 14:22 -0800 Richmond Mathewson apparently wrote:

Dear Robert Brenstein, there was no "apparently" about things, I wrote
what I wrote.

However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-

The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that I
use:

"Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."

No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who are not
satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30 minutes
while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
"Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."

Having a separate name for the language does not change any of the above.


As I have spent 90% of my adult life outwith my country of origin
the word 'Transcript' will always be linked in my mind with standing in
queues at embassies and various other state institutions with academic
transcript with stamps, seals, apostils and much, much more.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.

Considering the audience of the language, I doubt that many people have such
a connotation.

r
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Re: difference between function and command and sending parameters

[william humphrey]

Thanks. My arrays aren't that big but i like how I can call them in repeat
loops (I'm generating XML)
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Re: preserve custom folder icons in OSX

[Ken Ray]

On 12/1/08 2:24 AM, "Scott Morrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to
> reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as
> I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to
> be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with
> everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit out
> elsewhere.

Can you just zip up the folder? That may keep the custom icon intact.

> I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside
> the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the
> carriage return.

Yeah, I couldn't either from inside Rev - I can only work with it in the
shell().


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


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Re: preserve custom folder icons in OSX

[Scott Morrow]

On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:43 PM, Ken Ray wrote:


On 12/1/08 2:24 AM, "Scott Morrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to
reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as
I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to
be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with
everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit  
out

elsewhere.


Can you just zip up the folder? That may keep the custom icon intact.


The rest of the installer app already works by sucking up folders, not  
all of which are destined for the same place.  I was just trying to  
put a little extra polish on.  Perhaps I should have zipped each  
folder and then sucked it up!



I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside
the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the
carriage return.


Yeah, I couldn't either from inside Rev - I can only work with it in  
the

shell().


Hmm, perhaps I could use shell() to duplicate and rename the file,  
then suck that up with rev.  I think spitting it out later with a CR  
in the name will work.

Thanks.

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   http://elementarysoftware.com/
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Sqlite remotely

[william humphrey]

Remotely? like multi-user on a server?

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:16 PM, hershel fisch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi, how would be the appropriate way if there is, to work with SQLite
> remotely?
> Hershel Fisch
>
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-- 
http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[John Vokey]

I say the same thing, except I call it Metacard.

On 1-Dec-08, at 7:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


However, just to throw another spanner in the works:-

The very few times people ask me how I make my programs I state that  
I use:


"Runtime Revolution, a complete programming package."

No 'language', 'IDE', 'GUI', and so on, os mentioned; probably because
most people seem perfectly satisfied with that answer. The few who  
are not
satisfied get treated to 30 minutes of my demonstrating RR, and 30  
minutes

while I go away and let them play with RR. The end result is either
"Wow!" or "I don't understand how computers work anyway."


--
Yep, the dyslexic atheist claims there is no dog, but that is not half  
as risky as the dyslexic devil worshiper who sold his soul to Santa ;-)


Dr. John R. Vokey



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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Jim Sims]

On Dec 2, 2008, at 12:05 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

I'm like Richard. I rarely if ever have to defend RR as I've got some
long standing Rev projects in the works. I was only responding to the
originator of this thread regarding the subject:
"When they ask, what is this written in?"


'Twas I who asked that simple question; of course they never are.   ;-)

Like Chipp, I prefer Transcript. I do think that having the name of the
language the same as the product is confusing. One also has the  
emotional
and additional baggage that the word "Revolution" lugs around with  
itself.


I asked because recently a potential client told me that 'real' programs
are written in C++  (actually, he said "C"). He had heard of "C", maybe
even seen it in  a book or a movie like The Matrix. His understanding
or knowledge of it all stopped there. However, he had money, wanted to
do something, and 'had to have' "C" - period, end of story.

Last year, the Le Web event was crawling with investors. Might be fewer
or more this year. With a project in the competition I want (and need)
to be prepared as well as I can. It's great to be able to tap into the  
combined

wisdom and experience of this crowd in the Rev List.

Congrats to those who are in a position to tell off potential clients  
who
have uninformed views of writing software. I've got plenty of respect  
for

people like Chipp and Richard who have lots of long standing client,
they have surely earned them in various ways. I happen to be between
adventures, I need to take advantage of a particular opportunity and
don't want to screw up. Maybe I'm dumb enough to need advice but
smart enough to ask   ;-)

When I win this 'thang' I will get to talk to people from the Wall  
Street

Journal (Kara Swisher), Fred Wilson, Scoble, and others. When talking to
them I will say www.RunRev.com - not Transcript or Revolution.

sims


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ATTN: Max Schaefer who wrote Math Program

[Judy Perry]

Max:
Could you please contact me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

We met at RevConWest this year and I've lost track of your math program (my
husband's the mathematician).

Kindest thanks,

Judy Perry
http://revined.blogspot.com
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RE: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Randall Reetz]

Ya what up with the name "revolution"?  Weird.  Especially for a forth 
generation great grandson of a derivative.  That is the real source of awkward. 
 Product must be good.

-Original Message-
From: "Jim Sims" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 12/1/2008 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: When they ask, what is this written in?


On Dec 2, 2008, at 12:05 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
> I'm like Richard. I rarely if ever have to defend RR as I've got some
> long standing Rev projects in the works. I was only responding to the
> originator of this thread regarding the subject:
> "When they ask, what is this written in?"

'Twas I who asked that simple question; of course they never are.   ;-)

Like Chipp, I prefer Transcript. I do think that having the name of the
language the same as the product is confusing. One also has the  
emotional
and additional baggage that the word "Revolution" lugs around with  
itself.

I asked because recently a potential client told me that 'real' programs
are written in C++  (actually, he said "C"). He had heard of "C", maybe
even seen it in  a book or a movie like The Matrix. His understanding
or knowledge of it all stopped there. However, he had money, wanted to
do something, and 'had to have' "C" - period, end of story.

Last year, the Le Web event was crawling with investors. Might be fewer
or more this year. With a project in the competition I want (and need)
to be prepared as well as I can. It's great to be able to tap into the  
combined
wisdom and experience of this crowd in the Rev List.

Congrats to those who are in a position to tell off potential clients  
who
have uninformed views of writing software. I've got plenty of respect  
for
people like Chipp and Richard who have lots of long standing client,
they have surely earned them in various ways. I happen to be between
adventures, I need to take advantage of a particular opportunity and
don't want to screw up. Maybe I'm dumb enough to need advice but
smart enough to ask   ;-)

When I win this 'thang' I will get to talk to people from the Wall  
Street
Journal (Kara Swisher), Fred Wilson, Scoble, and others. When talking to
them I will say www.RunRev.com - not Transcript or Revolution.

sims


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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[Judy Perry]

I dunno...  I LIKE Revolution, but can see the Googling problems inherent in
it being *the name*.
Still, there's another problem -- that of changing the name of the product,
language, product lines numerous times.

Seems to me that, unless the above names suck markedly, leave them be!  I
imagine that repeatedly changing names of things looks suspiciously like
re-listing a house that simply cannot sell... (not that that's what I think
of the product, only that repeatedly changing names may suggest such an
analogy to others unfamiliar with the product).

But then again, I'm an artist who doesn't ship ;-)

Judy
http://revined.blogspot.com

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Randall Reetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Ya what up with the name "revolution"?  Weird.  Especially for a forth
> generation great grandson of a derivative.  That is the real source of
> awkward.  Product must be good.
>
>
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Re: When they ask, what is this written in?

[viktoras didziulis]

he knew too few about programming,- maybe it is better to avoid people 
like that, because their expectations sometimes may be unreal. You know, 
there are many Delphi/Pascal programmers around, the language being 
ranked 8th place by its spread and usage, tons of stuff's written in 
that language (in many cases it compiles to faster code than C/C++, 
because it allows to avoid silly mistakes and bugs, etc, etc..) and they 
also tell stories about meeting "knowledgeable experts" asking them to 
do things in C only. And there is nothing you can do about these 
people,- they just are... like people who care more about what car they 
will be riding rather than what is their destination ;-)


all the best
Viktoras

Jim Sims wrote:

I asked because recently a potential client told me that 'real' programs
are written in C++  (actually, he said "C"). He had heard of "C", maybe
even seen it in  a book or a movie like The Matrix. His understanding
or knowledge of it all stopped there. However, he had money, wanted to
do something, and 'had to have' "C" - period, end of story.


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