date:20090202


Hello all,

I haven't read all of the posts on this topic (this morning) but one  
approach to xTalk-ing spline curves is to use the standard polygon  
points list syntax but with a twist.  Instead of an unstructured  
comma delineated list of numbers (later to be parsed into x,y  
coordinate pairs) incorporate a meta-data model (not unlike the time/ 
date model) which could be "convert"ed into various protocols that  
would variously hide or reveal more or less data.  The polyPath [sic]  
metadata would be a structured into tab "point" delineated coordinate  
pairs (or 3D triplets):


1,2
4,5
7,10

... which would contain comma delineated coordinates along followed  
by a series of (optionally stated) attribute values describing things  
like relative rigidity, inside/outside rendering, rel pensize,  
opacity, color (HSV) etc?:


1,2,rel .95,+,rel .02,.45,23 45 100
4,5,rel .4,+,abs 3,.80,33 45 100
7,10,rel .95,+,rel .02,.45,43 45 100

This data would be stored with every polygon.  A property of each  
polygon "curved" would when true cause the engine to render it  
according to the metadata.  A curve set to false would be the default  
and would render a common polygon from the data.


The "pointDel" would contain the char to be used to seporate data for  
each point (shown here as CR) which would default to tab at startup.


One could "convert" the polyPath data to either of "polypathpoints"  
or the standard "points" (the polypath meta data would inform both).   
Both forms could be further modified by a "showNumber" property which  
would put an ordinal number (and space char) before each point set.   
This numbering would be display only and would be ignored by the  
interpreter and any processing.


1 1,2,rel .95,+,rel .02,.45,23 45 100
2 4,5,rel .4,+,abs 3,.80,33 45 100
3 7,10,rel .95,+,rel .02,.45,43 45 100

Another polygon property would be polyD or polyDimension which would  
hold an counting number (usually 2 or 3) to indicate the number of  
coordinate planes to be described as numerical coordinates (2D or 3D).


Randall

On Feb 2, 2009, at 1:15 AM, viktoras d. wrote:


now you have my vote for this feature too.

Viktoras

Richard Gaskin wrote:
In fact, I'm the only one who's voted for Andrew's request for  
that feature:



I also had an email exchange with Kevin about this very feature  
just last week.




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Re: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread René Micout


Hello Jim
http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/BezierLine.rev = error !?
René from Paris

Le 2 févr. 09 à 16:51, James Hurley a écrit :


Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Bernard Devlin bdrunrev at gmail.com
Mon Feb 2 09:38:45 CST 2009




Previous message: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt
Next message: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]


Hi Jim

I was interested to look at your solution, but only the 'compact'  
version is

available (the link behind the 'Bezier Line' returns a 404).

Regards,

Bernard



Bernard,

Sorry about that. I should have checked the link. Been a while  
since I have updated that page.


Until I fix the web page you can use this in the message box


go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/BezierLine.rev";

Jim Hurley



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Re: Another SQL question

2009-02-02 Thread Bob Sneidar

I will definitely give that a try. The odd thing is, the MySQL 5  
reference manual makes absolutely NO mention of the IN clause. It  
would be AWESOME to have in my hot little hand a comprehensive syntax  
for MySQL.


Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Jan 31, 2009, at 6:22 AM, Len Morgan wrote:


Why not:

SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn IN ('this','that',.)

It's standard SQL (I'm pretty sure - I've been using that form for 10+
years with Postgres.

Len Morgan


Bob Sneidar wrote:

Hi all.

I am trying to find a way to query a table whose column is in a list
of values. There is nothing in any SQL book or manual that says how  
to

do this. It looks like they want you to build a complex SQL statement
like:

SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn = 'this' OR myColumn = 'that' or
mycolumn...

That would work for a few items but what about for a HUGE list of
several hundred items? I know Revolution has the syntax "is in" or
"contains". Does SQL have a similar function?

I tried "LIKE" as in:

SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn LIKE 'this,that,the other thing'

That returns empty cursors even though those values are in the table
plain as day.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM





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Re: Another SQL question

2009-02-02 Thread Devin Asay


On Feb 2, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote:


I will definitely give that a try. The odd thing is, the MySQL 5
reference manual makes absolutely NO mention of the IN clause. It
would be AWESOME to have in my hot little hand a comprehensive syntax


Bob,

I rely heavily on O'Reilly's MySQL pocket Reference. Short and concise  
with few examples, but all of the various functions and permutations  
of commands are there--a great memory jogger.


Devin


Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: [ot] fractal graphic filter

Randall-

Monday, February 2, 2009, 10:00:44 AM, you wrote:

> This is the AI stuff from the Palm guy... correct?  I have looked at
> this.  And yes, Jff Hawkins (co-author of On Intelligence) gets it!

A lot of cognitive science at work here. And Bill Atkinson is on board
as well. He bent my ear about Numenta for half an hour straight a
while back.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: Another SQL question

2009-02-02 Thread stephen barncard

Ha. That's right. It's in the MySQL online manual, buried in "11.2.3.
Comparison Functions and Operators":

IN()Check whether a value is within a set of values

2009/2/2 Bob Sneidar 
>
> I will definitely give that a try. The odd thing is, the MySQL 5 reference 
> manual makes absolutely NO mention of the IN clause. It would be AWESOME to 
> have in my hot little hand a comprehensive syntax for MySQL.
>
> Bob Sneidar
> IT Manager
> Logos Management
> Calvary Chapel CM
>
> On Jan 31, 2009, at 6:22 AM, Len Morgan wrote:
>
>> Why not:
>>
>> SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn IN ('this','that',.)
>>
>> It's standard SQL (I'm pretty sure - I've been using that form for 10+
>> years with Postgres.
>>
>> Len Morgan
>>
>>
>> Bob Sneidar wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all.
>>>
>>> I am trying to find a way to query a table whose column is in a list
>>> of values. There is nothing in any SQL book or manual that says how to
>>> do this. It looks like they want you to build a complex SQL statement
>>> like:
>>>
>>> SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn = 'this' OR myColumn = 'that' or
>>> mycolumn...
>>>
>>> That would work for a few items but what about for a HUGE list of
>>> several hundred items? I know Revolution has the syntax "is in" or
>>> "contains". Does SQL have a similar function?
>>>
>>> I tried "LIKE" as in:
>>>
>>> SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn LIKE 'this,that,the other thing'
>>>
>>> That returns empty cursors even though those values are in the table
>>> plain as day.
>>>
>>> Bob Sneidar
>>> IT Manager
>>> Logos Management
>>> Calvary Chapel CM
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
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--
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-
San Francisco
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Re: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Graham Samuel

Jim - thanks so much. I will be looking hard at this (I see later in  
the Digest that there is some issue with links, but I'm sure it will  
be sorted out - anyway I have to do a few other things before I can  
get back to this issue).


Thanks also to Richard for the 'historical' explanation of graphic  
type 'curve' - and I should also say that Randall's idea of a graphic  
containing metadata that could be used to tailor the object's  
rendering according to the desired resolution is fascinating (I hope I  
understand it correctly), although I won't be pursuing it myself just  
now.


Graham

On 2 Mon, 2 Feb 2009 07:02:43 -0800, James Hurley > wrote:


Graham,

Until Run Rev comes up with a true bezier graphic you may find that a
simulation is adequate for your purposes.

Go to: http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/

There you will find the following discussion of a bezier plug-in.

"Bezier Line (New and improved) This is a plug-in allowing you to
paste a bezier line onto any card of any stack. It is the normal
bezier curve you are probably familiar with, line and tangent
controls. The line controls may be either corner points or continuous
tangent points. The control points are made invisible by double
clicking on the bezier line. (This gives you a single line with any
shape compatible with the cubic parametric expansion of curve's
function.) Double clicking again brings the control points back. It
is self-contained. All handlers are in the control points and the
bezier line itself. I have added the ability to remove all the bezier
control and their scipts, thus reducing the overhead. It might reduce
the size of your stack by 100 K or more. (In the compact version, you
will have a choice of saving the bezier curve as an open line graphic
or a closed polygon graphic.) A more compact version (40 K verser 180
K) of this plug in also available."


Jim Hurley


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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Brian Yennie


Randall,

I have never asked for a game server.  I dont build games... Have  
never even played one.


On December 26th you started a thread asking how to build "real time  
multi-player interaction" using a "central server". That's generally  
called a game server. I was one of the people who spend a fair amount  
of time trying to show you how to do it with sockets. You weren't  
interested because the sockets API was too messy for you.


If you are going to ask how to do something, don't come back with a  
discussion on the inadequacies of the solution if you expect people to  
keep helping you out.


All of you should be agreeing with me, not fighting me.  These  
things i ask for are obvious ways for xtalk to do for today's  
computing world what smalltalk and hypertalk did for the mid 1980's.


Perhaps that's the problem. We don't all agree with you, and I'm not  
so sure we should. Apparently we are missing how you have the obvious  
solutions to revolutionize programming. I disagree. Mostly I just hear  
a lot of buzz words and a desire to have Rev do everything you dream  
up, automatically.


I am writing deep pattern engine and symantic engine in xtalk, so  
dont dare say i am unwilling to go the coding distance.  I have  
written self optimized multithreading into xtalk.  I wrote a  
symantic indexing system into xtalk.  I have written a full  
resolution independent 3D engine in xtalk.


I don't know anything about your projects, but I do know your behavior  
on the list. You raise threads about game servers, file system  
monitors and vector graphic engines, and then a week later you are on  
to something else, disgruntled that there wasn't a Rev command for  
what you wanted to do. And please, be credible about what you claim to  
have done. A "full resolution independent 3D engine"? "Self optimized  
multitreading"? Or experiments with idle handlers and drawing tools?  
Your own tone is the difference between me taking interest in what  
you've done and being completely put off. You don't have to prove  
yourself with big words - if you've done something interesting in  
xTalk this list is full of people who will fully appreciate it. Myself  
included... I discovered Hypercard in 4th grade and it still seems  
like I learn something new on this list every couple days from all  
corners of the community.


How is the rev product threatened by deep thinking people wondering  
aloud what features would make xtalk that much more powerful and  
contemporary?


It's not. Please stop anointing your "deep" thoughts as something  
everyone should agree with. You are entitled to your visions for  
computing but you'll have to get used to the fact that we don't all  
agree with you or bow to your visions.


Anyway, this isn't my list any more than yours, so I'll quit taking up  
so much bandwidth. Randall, I simply think that you *could* be a  
productive contributor with interesting ideas, and I think I (among  
others) could help you quite a bit in channeling them. But right now,  
it seems like a waste of time as you mostly appear interested in  
everyone agreeing what amazing ideas you have.

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Re: Recover from Temp?

2009-02-02 Thread Kay C Lan

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:42 AM, Tereza Snyder  wrote:

> Last time I upgraded my system, I got an extra hard drive so I could use
> TimeMachine for just these kinds of circumstances. It has saved my butt
> several times already!
>

Whilst I wouldn't argue against the use of TimeMachine, for those who have
it, I find GLX2's Archive feature a swifter solution for such Rev specific
problems.
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RE: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

No, there is a difference between what i have to do to get by right now, and 
the broader picture of user level programming.  What hypertalk did for data 
base programming needs to be done now in current xtalk environs for the web.  
That is what i mean by limping into the present.  How long has the web been 
here?   

-Original Message-
From: "Brian Yennie" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 2/2/2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Randall,

> I have never asked for a game server.  I dont build games... Have  
> never even played one.

On December 26th you started a thread asking how to build "real time  
multi-player interaction" using a "central server". That's generally  
called a game server. I was one of the people who spend a fair amount  
of time trying to show you how to do it with sockets. You weren't  
interested because the sockets API was too messy for you.

If you are going to ask how to do something, don't come back with a  
discussion on the inadequacies of the solution if you expect people to  
keep helping you out.

> All of you should be agreeing with me, not fighting me.  These  
> things i ask for are obvious ways for xtalk to do for today's  
> computing world what smalltalk and hypertalk did for the mid 1980's.

Perhaps that's the problem. We don't all agree with you, and I'm not  
so sure we should. Apparently we are missing how you have the obvious  
solutions to revolutionize programming. I disagree. Mostly I just hear  
a lot of buzz words and a desire to have Rev do everything you dream  
up, automatically.

> I am writing deep pattern engine and symantic engine in xtalk, so  
> dont dare say i am unwilling to go the coding distance.  I have  
> written self optimized multithreading into xtalk.  I wrote a  
> symantic indexing system into xtalk.  I have written a full  
> resolution independent 3D engine in xtalk.

I don't know anything about your projects, but I do know your behavior  
on the list. You raise threads about game servers, file system  
monitors and vector graphic engines, and then a week later you are on  
to something else, disgruntled that there wasn't a Rev command for  
what you wanted to do. And please, be credible about what you claim to  
have done. A "full resolution independent 3D engine"? "Self optimized  
multitreading"? Or experiments with idle handlers and drawing tools?  
Your own tone is the difference between me taking interest in what  
you've done and being completely put off. You don't have to prove  
yourself with big words - if you've done something interesting in  
xTalk this list is full of people who will fully appreciate it. Myself  
included... I discovered Hypercard in 4th grade and it still seems  
like I learn something new on this list every couple days from all  
corners of the community.

> How is the rev product threatened by deep thinking people wondering  
> aloud what features would make xtalk that much more powerful and  
> contemporary?

It's not. Please stop anointing your "deep" thoughts as something  
everyone should agree with. You are entitled to your visions for  
computing but you'll have to get used to the fact that we don't all  
agree with you or bow to your visions.

Anyway, this isn't my list any more than yours, so I'll quit taking up  
so much bandwidth. Randall, I simply think that you *could* be a  
productive contributor with interesting ideas, and I think I (among  
others) could help you quite a bit in channeling them. But right now,  
it seems like a waste of time as you mostly appear interested in  
everyone agreeing what amazing ideas you have.
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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Chipp Walters

Randall,

Both Richard and Brian are longtime *contributing* community members. But it
wasn't always so. At one time, both of them and many of us were like you--
new to Rev. Of course there were frustrations, but many people on this (and
it's previous incarnation) list stopped what they were doing to help out in
a constructive manner. That is what is meant by contributing.

Richard has hosted RevJournal.com on his nickel for as long as I can
remember. His articles on the message path and scripting style guide have
helped many here-- including myself (thanks Richard!). Brian has written
numerous externals and is a 'go to' expert who gladly provides free and
accurate advice to others.

It's was clear to me upon reading Richard's first reply to Andrew's
question, he was only helping. Furthermore, having been here awhile, I also
know Andrew and Richard have had a relationship, and in no way was Richard
being an 'Attack Dog' towards him. Of course, you being rather new would not
know that. Sometimes, it's better to observe than insert oneself into the
middle of a process when you don't understand the dynamics.

It's clear to me Randall, you need to have the last word here. You might ask
Dave how it worked out for him last week. I recommend you quit calling
people names and try and behave like a *contributing* community member.
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Re: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Wilhelm Sanke


*René Micout rmicout at online.fr  wrote:

*/
/



Hello Jim
http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/BezierLine.rev = error !?
René from Paris


Some months ago I had encountered similar difficulties when trying to access 
Jim's website via DSL,
but it worked for me using an ISDN modem.

Regards,

Wilhelm Sanke

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When should cmd-period work?

I accidentally wrote a handler that called another handler that called 
the first one, which called the second one, which called the first one, 
which...you know, like that. It wasn't really recursion because each 
handler did a finite set of actions and didn't depend on the other. At 
any rate, there was no recursion warning.


What it looked like from the outside was that Rev had become 
unresponsive, though the cursor moved. No spinning beach ball, no 
colored pizza, just the regular arrow, but clicking on anything failed 
and the OS X dock had "Force Quit" in its menu. It took me several 
force-quits before I figured out the problem was ID10T error.


The allowInterrupts was true, but command-period didn't intercept it. 
Should it have? I wonder if that's even possible, since from the 
script's point of view there was nothing wrong. It was doing exactly 
what I told it to.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Another SQL question

2009-02-02 Thread Bob Sneidar

Wow! Not in my reference manual it's not. 11.2 is "Numeric Types". But  
then I downloaded the PDF manual. Seems that it is either out of date  
or not "exactly" correct. I also searched for IN() in the manual and  
came up with squadouch.


Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Feb 2, 2009, at 10:54 AM, stephen barncard wrote:


Ha. That's right. It's in the MySQL online manual, buried in "11.2.3.
Comparison Functions and Operators":

IN()Check whether a value is within a set of values

2009/2/2 Bob Sneidar 


I will definitely give that a try. The odd thing is, the MySQL 5  
reference manual makes absolutely NO mention of the IN clause. It  
would be AWESOME to have in my hot little hand a comprehensive  
syntax for MySQL.


Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM

On Jan 31, 2009, at 6:22 AM, Len Morgan wrote:


Why not:

SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn IN ('this','that',.)

It's standard SQL (I'm pretty sure - I've been using that form for  
10+

years with Postgres.

Len Morgan


Bob Sneidar wrote:


Hi all.

I am trying to find a way to query a table whose column is in a  
list
of values. There is nothing in any SQL book or manual that says  
how to
do this. It looks like they want you to build a complex SQL  
statement

like:

SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn = 'this' OR myColumn =  
'that' or

mycolumn...

That would work for a few items but what about for a HUGE list of
several hundred items? I know Revolution has the syntax "is in" or
"contains". Does SQL have a similar function?

I tried "LIKE" as in:

SELECT * FROM myTable WHERE myColumn LIKE 'this,that,the other  
thing'


That returns empty cursors even though those values are in the  
table

plain as day.

Bob Sneidar
IT Manager
Logos Management
Calvary Chapel CM





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--
Stephen Barncard
-
San Francisco
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RE: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

By the way, i can see why i have confused you.  I used the word "players" when 
i should have said "users".  I was trying to emphasize the simultaneity of 
multiple user interaction on the same data across a network.  If a game engine 
brings a programming for the rest of us interface to simple client server and 
client client communication and shared data edits, then yes i want a game 
engine.  But to me, the phrase game engine evokes a much more complex hunk of 
code.  I too learn all day long from this and other lists.  There is so much 
knoledge and experience represented in everyone's own path.  I get frustrated 
when a major pradigm is ignored by this and other xtalk tools (and for a 
decade!).  And when the original vission of allan kay and big bill are so 
poorly championed in the present.  So i present my wish lists.  But the sharp 
rebuttles of whichh you refer are in responces to scolding and belittleing 
responces to simple and obvious feature requests.  Offering sockets as an 
interface to xtalk users is like offering bit blitters instead of graphic shape 
tools.  Notice what hypercard choose.  I am not demanding immediate action on 
my wish lists.  But ten years with no xtalked web functions?  Twenty with no 
xtalked curves, or live masks?  By the way, are you a stake holder in the 
runtime rev product or company?  Is there a way to tell who on this list is and 
who isnt?  Any agreement regarding the honest disclosure of conflict of 
interest?  As for my multithreading code.  I am on the road right now and 
will be uploading it to this list as soon as i am home at my backup discs.  It 
is less than ten pages of source.  The 3D engine is coordinate only (verticies 
and flat polys) in 3space.  I only mentioned these things in rebuttles to those 
of you who respond to my requests with attacks on my programmer's street 
creed... Saying i wont go to the trenches and do the dificult day to day make 
it work without easy tools programming.  Again, it is instructive to look at 
the order of these posts.  I present a wish.  The anti-new feature heavies 
weigh in to kill the very notion of suggesting that rev isnt complete and 
perfect... And doing so by attacking me as a person.  And finally... I step up 
to defend my ideas and my self as a person and a legitimate developer.  The 
causal order of events matter.

-Original Message-
From: "Brian Yennie" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 2/2/2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Randall,

> I have never asked for a game server.  I dont build games... Have  
> never even played one.

On December 26th you started a thread asking how to build "real time  
multi-player interaction" using a "central server". That's generally  
called a game server. I was one of the people who spend a fair amount  
of time trying to show you how to do it with sockets. You weren't  
interested because the sockets API was too messy for you.

If you are going to ask how to do something, don't come back with a  
discussion on the inadequacies of the solution if you expect people to  
keep helping you out.

> All of you should be agreeing with me, not fighting me.  These  
> things i ask for are obvious ways for xtalk to do for today's  
> computing world what smalltalk and hypertalk did for the mid 1980's.

Perhaps that's the problem. We don't all agree with you, and I'm not  
so sure we should. Apparently we are missing how you have the obvious  
solutions to revolutionize programming. I disagree. Mostly I just hear  
a lot of buzz words and a desire to have Rev do everything you dream  
up, automatically.

> I am writing deep pattern engine and symantic engine in xtalk, so  
> dont dare say i am unwilling to go the coding distance.  I have  
> written self optimized multithreading into xtalk.  I wrote a  
> symantic indexing system into xtalk.  I have written a full  
> resolution independent 3D engine in xtalk.

I don't know anything about your projects, but I do know your behavior  
on the list. You raise threads about game servers, file system  
monitors and vector graphic engines, and then a week later you are on  
to something else, disgruntled that there wasn't a Rev command for  
what you wanted to do. And please, be credible about what you claim to  
have done. A "full resolution independent 3D engine"? "Self optimized  
multitreading"? Or experiments with idle handlers and drawing tools?  
Your own tone is the difference between me taking interest in what  
you've done and being completely put off. You don't have to prove  
yourself with big words - if you've done something interesting in  
xTalk this list is full of people who will fully appreciate it. Myself  
included... I discovered Hypercard in 4th grade and it still seems  
like I learn something new on this list every couple days from all  
corners of the community.

> How is the rev product threatened by deep thinking people wondering  
> aloud what features woul

Re: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Bernard Devlin

Hi Jim

I was interested to look at your solution, but only the 'compact' version is
available (the link behind the 'Bezier Line' returns a 404).

Regards,

Bernard

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:02 PM, James Hurley wrote:

>
> Until Run Rev comes up with a true bezier graphic you may find that a
> simulation is adequate for your purposes.
>
> Go to: http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/
>
> There you will find the following discussion of a bezier plug-in.
>
>
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RE: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Well that is interesting because andrew 
Contacted me emediately and without request off list and shared his frustration 
and fear of the attacks on any suggestions for new features.  This has happened 
several times with other users afraid of the backlash.  I am contributing as a 
user.  I answer questions when my own personal experience gives me something to 
help another xtalk user solve a problem.  I conribute by trying to understand 
the will and intent that drove the genesis of xtalk in the beginning.  If you 
are saying that only the insiders are welcome to request a feature or criticise 
the product well i have a little red book for you to read. I care and i will 
continue to care.  Do you guys work for Putin?   
-Original Message-
From: "Chipp Walters" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 2/2/2009 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Randall,

Both Richard and Brian are longtime *contributing* community members. But it
wasn't always so. At one time, both of them and many of us were like you--
new to Rev. Of course there were frustrations, but many people on this (and
it's previous incarnation) list stopped what they were doing to help out in
a constructive manner. That is what is meant by contributing.

Richard has hosted RevJournal.com on his nickel for as long as I can
remember. His articles on the message path and scripting style guide have
helped many here-- including myself (thanks Richard!). Brian has written
numerous externals and is a 'go to' expert who gladly provides free and
accurate advice to others.

It's was clear to me upon reading Richard's first reply to Andrew's
question, he was only helping. Furthermore, having been here awhile, I also
know Andrew and Richard have had a relationship, and in no way was Richard
being an 'Attack Dog' towards him. Of course, you being rather new would not
know that. Sometimes, it's better to observe than insert oneself into the
middle of a process when you don't understand the dynamics.

It's clear to me Randall, you need to have the last word here. You might ask
Dave how it worked out for him last week. I recommend you quit calling
people names and try and behave like a *contributing* community member.
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Re: Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Malte Brill


Mr. Reetz wrote:

> Do you guys work for Putin?

Forgot to take your Prozac today? I don´t get it...

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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Chipp Walters

Randall,
I can tell you that, yes, I am a stakeholder in the success of Rev. I have
invested no dollars, but have thousands of hours and many commercial
projects, for clients and our own company at stake. So, I am *MOST
INTERESTED* to see it succeed.

Dan Shafer and myself have hosted 3 annual conferences on the west coast
devoted to Rev. I've built my own set of tools in Rev and shared them with
the community. Many are still in use today. Recreating those tools in
another RAD tool would be most time-consuming and tedious. Yes, I am a
stakeholder in the success of Rev.

I've worked with Malte's excellent Animation Engine to create a free .obj
(Wavefront 3d) loader and wireframe viewer which I use in a commercial
product today. If Rev goes away, so does a big part of my livelihood. So,
yes, I am a stakeholder in Rev.
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re: Button Basher

2009-02-02 Thread Barry Barber

Hi Richmond
You wrote
>Thanks to Mark Swindell I have uploaded a new version of "BUTTON BASHER.rev"
>to revOnline that allows (on Macintosh systems) end-users to set their own
>colour gradients,
>give it a go!
>sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
-
Thanks to you for another useful tool. 
Now I will not have to fiddle with The Gimp in the middle of a GUI build!
Just one note though.
 The label "These buttons will only work with Macintosh systems" in card MORE 
GRADIENTS seems redundant; they all work excellently on XP-HE (except 
Condensed, Box and Expanded in  TEXT STYLE)!
Glad someone has realised we do not have to remain restricted to the card size 
limits of HC and  MacSE. My eyes are blessing you!
All the best Barry



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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Richard Gaskin


> Do you guys work for Putin?

So we're already up to the random Commie name-calling, eh?  Man, that 
didn't take long.


Jeanne, have you started a betting pool as to when the first "Nazi" 
reference will be tossed in?


Put me down for "Within 5 posts" for $20.  ;)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
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Re: drag-resize stack

2009-02-02 Thread DunbarX

Couldn't you, on a mouseStillDown handler, check to see if the screenMouseLoc 
is within a few pixels of the botRight of the card window, and track the 
botRight of the card window?



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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread chris livermore

I just finished watching the 'Six Feet Under' series and am in need of  
a new drama. But, Hey, can someone get married or have a baby or  
something? To much of the dark-side happening!

Or maybe we should just end this series too!

cheers

chris

On 03/02/2009, at 9:39 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


> Do you guys work for Putin?

So we're already up to the random Commie name-calling, eh?  Man,  
that didn't take long.


Jeanne, have you started a betting pool as to when the first "Nazi"  
reference will be tossed in?


Put me down for "Within 5 posts" for $20.  ;)

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World
Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
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RE: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

I have never asked for a game server.  I dont build games... Have never even 
played one.  Secondly, yes i do keep hoping and praying and asking for features 
that would extend the original user-level programming ethos of allan kay and 
bill atkenson to the modern world we live in.  Sockets are to xtalk what a 
machine shop is to an erector set.  
All of you should be agreeing with me, not fighting me.  These things i ask for 
are obvious ways for xtalk to do for today's computing world what smalltalk and 
hypertalk did for the mid 1980's.  Namely, to wrap deep functionality into a 
pedestrian common english syntax.  To un-socket sockets as it were.  I am 
writing deep pattern engine and symantic engine in xtalk, so dont dare say i am 
unwilling to go the coding distance.  I have written self optimized 
multithreading into xtalk.  I wrote a symantic indexing system into xtalk.  I 
have written a full resolution independent 3D engine in xtalk.  But what i find 
it dificult to do is write the same code everyone else is writing just to limp 
xtalk into the present.  That goes so counter to the original intent of xtalk.  
How is the rev product threatened by deep thinking people wondering aloud what 
features would make xtalk that much more powerful and contemporary?  

-Original Message-
From: "Brian Yennie" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 2/1/2009 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Randall,

There's nothing wrong with presenting a wish list. The problem is, it  
seems like every few weeks you have an extensive set of "must-haves"  
to share and don't want to hear that you might have to do more work  
than ranting about how they should all be native xTalk commands. First  
you wanted a game server - but apparently didn't want to deal with  
sockets (even though Rev has a very nice socket API). Then you wanted  
file system events built in to Rev. Now you seem to want Flex / Flash  
feature sets embedded into Rev. Rev is a great tool, but it's not for  
everything and it will not be able to encompass every project you  
dream up with high level commands. Adding a curve object, a good idea.  
But then you put something out that looked more like a list of  
demands, filled with every buzz word you could think of around the  
subject. That's not constructive, and it's not insightful.

Slo down my friend (and yes, we are ALL friends here including  
"us" =)). Discuss things. Keep the name calling for some other list. I  
would suggest looking into "constructive critism" if you want people  
to accept it.

Curve object. Good idea. Let's focus there.

I believe Richard just pointed out that it's a good idea to consider  
multiple tools. Right now I am having a blast becoming proficient in  
Flash / ActionScript 3. There are many things I can do in Flash that I  
don't believe there is any chance whatsoever of ever doing in Rev, and  
vice versa. They are completely different paradigms. Likewise, I'm  
glad I know MySQL well, because if I was trying to run a large scale  
website with Rev as my database I'd be out of business. I'm also  
running ElectroServer, which is a high performance gaming server  
written in Java. If I had to code it from scratch in Rev, it could be  
a nightmare and I would probably never catch up with what is already  
out there. You see, every project you've been wishing to do on this  
list, I could start tomorrow because I have many tools at my disposal.  
So I would say Richard's suggestion was pretty good advice. And yes,  
I'm actively using Rev as part of my projects as well =).

> Oh yes, here come the attack dogs.Richard, everyone  is welcome  
> to their openion.  Andrew has a deep and distinguished career in  
> post script and xtalk and large scale software projects.  Stop with  
> the (very predictable) defensive attack everytime anyone cares  
> enough about xtalk to offer a wish list or a considdered and deeply  
> experienced openion.  Why would somone want a curves in rev or some  
> other xtalk IDE they work in?  Why wouldnt they???  Going out to  
> another media editor and bringing caned constructions into xtalk  
> will never give you the kind of live user interaction (under dynamic  
> code control in real time) that you would have if it was a native  
> function.  So if you really want to protect the image of rev do so  
> as a big person who is big enough to accept criticism... Maybe even  
> freely and openly invite it!  Rev is certainly good enough to live  
> within an active and critical market and user community.  Your  
> attacks are pompus and hurtful and have a tendancy to quiet anyone  
> who might not be so bold and self assured as andrew.  And there is  
> no reason.  You are a smart man richard.  Use it to break down the  
> walls.  Lets bring everyone and all their opinions along on this  
> wonderful journey.  There is room for change... Especially when it  
> is 20 years past due.
>
> randall

Big issue with Rev

2009-02-02 Thread DunbarX

I am having a problem.

I made a utility stack. Just like in my HC environment. Its stack script is
in use. In this stack I have an openCard handler that is intended to display
information about other stacks on the fly, a list of card objects, for example.

I have a two card test stack with a field and a button on it. As a start, I
put the command "beep" in an openCard handler in the utility stack script, just
to make sure the messages are going along. All well and good as I navigate
the test stack.

If I put another line below "beep", like "put the target", or a call to
another handler to do some actual work, all hell breaks loose. My test stack
gets
the text "/REVEXCLUDED02" placed in its field. If I navigate to the next card,
the test stack window reduces to a thin line, about one pixel wide and 30
tall. If I go back to the first card, the stack window is normally sized, but
the
text remains. Back and forth, and I can duplicate it. Only quitting rev
restores the test stack to its normal condition. A new session follows exactly
the
same path.

I don't suppose "/REVEXCLUDED02" means anything to anyone? I all of a sudden
have a terrible feeling that "HC on steroids" notwithstanding, I am going to
have issues getting this going. I am depressed.

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Re: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Bernard Devlin

Thanks Jim, it's a very interesting stack.  I think I may have a need for
similar functionality in a future application.   Hopefully it is of some use
to Graham too.

Bernard

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:51 PM, James Hurley wrote:

>
> Bernard,
>
> Sorry about that. I should have checked the link. Been a while since I have
> updated that page.
>
> Until I fix the web page you can use this in the message box
>
>
> go url "http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/BezierLine.rev";
>
>
> Jim Hurley
>
>
>
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Re: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread James Hurley

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:23:56 +0100
From: Graham Samuel 
Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Dear list

I sent this mail a few days ago, and unless I missed it, (always
possible if you get the digest, as  do) I got no replies at all. This
is the first time this has happened to me, so I thought it might be
worth a second try to see if I get anyone's attention.

TIA

Graham

It seems funny that after all these years I've never tried this, but I
realise I don't know how to draw a curved shape by script. I see from
the Rev documentation that the style of a graphic can be 'curve' and
that the shape of the graphic can be defined by its points, but that
doesn't tell me how to produce a smooth curve which will still look
curved at any degree of enlargement or resolution.

Graham,

Until Run Rev comes up with a true bezier graphic you may find that a  
simulation is adequate for your purposes.

Go to: http://home.infostations.net/jhurley/

There you will find the following discussion of a bezier plug-in.

"Bezier Line (New and improved) This is a plug-in allowing you to  
paste a bezier line onto any card of any stack. It is the normal  
bezier curve you are probably familiar with, line and tangent  
controls. The line controls may be either corner points or continuous  
tangent points. The control points are made invisible by double  
clicking on the bezier line. (This gives you a single line with any  
shape compatible with the cubic parametric expansion of curve's  
function.) Double clicking again brings the control points back. It  
is self-contained. All handlers are in the control points and the  
bezier line itself. I have added the ability to remove all the bezier  
control and their scipts, thus reducing the overhead. It might reduce  
the size of your stack by 100 K or more. (In the compact version, you  
will have a choice of saving the bezier curve as an open line graphic  
or a closed polygon graphic.) A more compact version (40 K verser 180  
K) of this plug in also available."

Jim Hurley

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using open office to open CSV files (was launch document problems)

2009-02-02 Thread Sadhunathan Nadesan


Hi

OpenOffice works great on CSV.  You have to use the CSV file choice
though or it doesn't bring up the wizard.  I will send a screen shot
direct (this mailing list doesn't support that) so you can see what I
mean.  I just scroll down until I see the SLK which is easy to spot
amidst the huge plethora of types, then it's under that.  

Sadhu
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Re: Big issue with Rev

DunbarX-

Monday, February 2, 2009, 3:11:23 PM, you wrote:

> I am having a problem.

> I made a utility stack. Just like in my HC environment. Its stack script is
> in use. In this stack I have an openCard handler that is intended to display
> information about other stacks on the fly, a list of card objects, for 
> example.

By "its stack script is in use" do you mean you're using it as a
library stack, frontscript or backscript? In that case you're probably
getting duelling openCard handlers.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: [ot] fractal graphic filter

This is the AI stuff from the Palm guy... correct?  I have looked at  
this.  And yes, Jff Hawkins (co-author of On Intelligence) gets it!


Compression in this context means the reduction towards general or  
prototypical forms that are then stored with modifiers that enumerate  
the delta between a specific incarnation and that prototype.


Randall

On Feb 1, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:


Randall-

Sunday, February 1, 2009, 12:40:58 PM, you wrote:


The problem with fractal compression is that it like all
compression schemes is usually applied indiscriminately to a whole
file.  A scheme that works best for some data doesnt always work
best for others.  The real breakthrough will involve an entropy
metric that can be used to self optimize a scheme to regions and
others other other regions... Setting up a topograhic mapping of
compressions as directed by the morphology of that data.  Do that
and you can selectively and accurately reduce an image (or any other
data set) to more general terms.  For instance, if a filter were
able to extract obects (humans, plants, buildings, furnature,
infrastructure, land use, animals, equipment) into semantic
primitives, it sould describe and store reality the way our brains
do while we sleep.  Achieving million-to-one compression ratios.


Sounds like you may be interested in what Numenta's up to...

www.numenta.com

--
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Mark Smith

Randall, wondering aloud about features is welcome (at least as far  
as I'm concerned, and I'm sure to most of us), it's just that phrases  
like "limp xtalk into the present' come off as kind of  
confrontational. The general style on this list is very much non- 
confrontational - you wouldn't be the first person to get a raised- 
eyebrow response to that kind of talk, just please don't take it the  
wrong way!


It seems to me that some of the things you talk about would be better  
addressed on the improve list, rather than the how-to list, but you  
need an enterprise licence to join that list.


BTW, self-optimizing multi-threading sounds very interesting - was it  
in Revolution? If so, anything you can share?


Best,

Mark


On 2 Feb 2009, at 13:26, Randall Reetz wrote:

I have never asked for a game server.  I dont build games... Have  
never even played one.  Secondly, yes i do keep hoping and praying  
and asking for features that would extend the original user-level  
programming ethos of allan kay and bill atkenson to the modern  
world we live in.  Sockets are to xtalk what a machine shop is to  
an erector set.
All of you should be agreeing with me, not fighting me.  These  
things i ask for are obvious ways for xtalk to do for today's  
computing world what smalltalk and hypertalk did for the mid  
1980's.  Namely, to wrap deep functionality into a pedestrian  
common english syntax.  To un-socket sockets as it were.  I am  
writing deep pattern engine and symantic engine in xtalk, so dont  
dare say i am unwilling to go the coding distance.  I have written  
self optimized multithreading into xtalk.  I wrote a symantic  
indexing system into xtalk.  I have written a full resolution  
independent 3D engine in xtalk.  But what i find it dificult to do  
is write the same code everyone else is writing just to limp xtalk  
into the present.  That goes so counter to the original intent of  
xtalk.  How is the rev product threatened by deep thinking people  
wondering aloud what features would make xtalk that much more  
powerful and contemporary?




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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt


Mark,

I wrote it (self-optimizing multi-threading) in SuperTalk... but the  
script is standard.  Will look for it and post it when I find it.   
Requires a rather extensive use of the "on idle" handler and some  
rethinking of how one goes about writing looped control structures.


As for raised eyebrows, if you take the time to look closely at the  
way these discussions of new features escalate, you will see that the  
original suggestion posts are not provocative at all... but they are  
always followed by some form of social jamming that is intended to  
make the suggester seem daft, stupid, greedy, and out of place.  It  
is only then that I gather my courage and post an argument pointed  
squarely at the provincialism of the secondary criticism of posts  
that suggest or plead for new features.  The order of events  
matters.  Surely I am not being held retroactively responsible for a  
tertiary rebuttal?  Causal chain and all...


Randall

On Feb 2, 2009, at 6:08 AM, Mark Smith wrote:

Randall, wondering aloud about features is welcome (at least as far  
as I'm concerned, and I'm sure to most of us), it's just that  
phrases like "limp xtalk into the present' come off as kind of  
confrontational. The general style on this list is very much non- 
confrontational - you wouldn't be the first person to get a raised- 
eyebrow response to that kind of talk, just please don't take it  
the wrong way!


It seems to me that some of the things you talk about would be  
better addressed on the improve list, rather than the how-to list,  
but you need an enterprise licence to join that list.


BTW, self-optimizing multi-threading sounds very interesting - was  
it in Revolution? If so, anything you can share?


Best,

Mark


On 2 Feb 2009, at 13:26, Randall Reetz wrote:

I have never asked for a game server.  I dont build games... Have  
never even played one.  Secondly, yes i do keep hoping and praying  
and asking for features that would extend the original user-level  
programming ethos of allan kay and bill atkenson to the modern  
world we live in.  Sockets are to xtalk what a machine shop is to  
an erector set.
All of you should be agreeing with me, not fighting me.  These  
things i ask for are obvious ways for xtalk to do for today's  
computing world what smalltalk and hypertalk did for the mid  
1980's.  Namely, to wrap deep functionality into a pedestrian  
common english syntax.  To un-socket sockets as it were.  I am  
writing deep pattern engine and symantic engine in xtalk, so dont  
dare say i am unwilling to go the coding distance.  I have written  
self optimized multithreading into xtalk.  I wrote a symantic  
indexing system into xtalk.  I have written a full resolution  
independent 3D engine in xtalk.  But what i find it dificult to do  
is write the same code everyone else is writing just to limp xtalk  
into the present.  That goes so counter to the original intent of  
xtalk.  How is the rev product threatened by deep thinking people  
wondering aloud what features would make xtalk that much more  
powerful and contemporary?




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Re: When should cmd-period work?

2009-02-02 Thread Devin Asay



On Feb 2, 2009, at 2:44 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


I accidentally wrote a handler that called another handler that called
the first one, which called the second one, which called the first  
one,

which...you know, like that. It wasn't really recursion because each
handler did a finite set of actions and didn't depend on the other. At
any rate, there was no recursion warning.

What it looked like from the outside was that Rev had become
unresponsive, though the cursor moved. No spinning beach ball, no
colored pizza, just the regular arrow, but clicking on anything failed
and the OS X dock had "Force Quit" in its menu. It took me several
force-quits before I figured out the problem was ID10T error.

The allowInterrupts was true, but command-period didn't intercept it.
Should it have? I wonder if that's even possible, since from the
script's point of view there was nothing wrong. It was doing exactly
what I told it to.


Hi Jacque,

This has happened to me several times in Rev 3.0, but I've never been  
able to pin it down to a recipe. It's almost like what happens when a  
running script throws an error and kicks you into debug mode, and you  
try to do things with the interface, but nothing works. Then you  
notice the error message and slap yourself in the forehead and say to  
yourself "What a dork!", then click the stop button in the script  
editor to get out of debug mode, and everything's fine. But when this  
happens you can't find anything to click, and you want to slap your  
computer instead. Cmd-period doesn't work because the script is  
already interrupted. It's almost like you really are in debug mode but  
the interface hasn't been updated to reflect that. Like you, I seem to  
notice it happen when handlers are calling handlers are calling  
handlers, in different objects.


It's very frustrating; maybe if we compare notes we can come up with a  
reliable recipe for reproducing it.


Devin


Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Launch document problems

2009-02-02 Thread Bernard Devlin

Hi Scott,

I've got a few suggestions (I've experienced a few peculiarities with
'launch document' at various times).  The problem with my suggestions is
that they are not as simply cross-platform as the basic 'launch' command.
If you are only dealing with Windows, then this should not be a problem.

1) There is another version of that command: 'launch [documentPath with]
applicationPath' (see dictionary).  It could be that OpenOffice is not being
launched with files of .csv.

2) There is also the 'shell' command in Revolution, and you can build a
command line string then use that to launch a program.  OpenOffice can be
launched from the command line and told to start with a particular
sub-application (e.g. the spreadsheet) by calling it from the command line.
I've only skimmed OOo, but if you google "openoffice.org" "command line" the
first few hits should point you to the kinds of command options available.
I didn't see that one could pass along a document path when starting from
the command line, but it would be unusual for that to NOT be the case.

Hope one of those suggesions gets you a little further...

Bernard

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Scott Pepperdine  wrote:

> J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> Scott Pepperdine wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to use 'launch document' to open a .csv file in a spreadsheet.
>>>  I keep getting the result of "can't open file", which tells me the file
>>> could not be found, or is not accessible.
>>>
>> Since you've tried checking for existence, the file is probably found.
>> More likely is that it is inaccessible to Rev, which could be a permissions
>> issue. Have you tried moving the file to a folder that is accessible to the
>> current user, like the desktop?
>>
>>  Hi Jacque,
>
> Thanks for the response.  I'm signed on as Administrator on this box, so I
> didn't think permissions would be the problem, and it was not.  When I
> changed the associated program for .csv files from OpenOffice to Lotus 123
> it worked just great.  When I use "launch document" to open .rtf and .doc
> and .xls files with OpenOffice it works just fine also.  It is only when I
> try to open .csv files with OpenOffice that it does not work.  Either a
> problem with OpenOffice or the association I have set up with .csv files.
>
> In any case the problem was not with Rev, and thanks again for the
> response.
>
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RE: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Ok, why then is asking for code addressable and rev native curves responded to 
as a threatening request? 

-Original Message-
From: "Chipp Walters" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 2/2/2009 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Randall,
I can tell you that, yes, I am a stakeholder in the success of Rev. I have
invested no dollars, but have thousands of hours and many commercial
projects, for clients and our own company at stake. So, I am *MOST
INTERESTED* to see it succeed.

Dan Shafer and myself have hosted 3 annual conferences on the west coast
devoted to Rev. I've built my own set of tools in Rev and shared them with
the community. Many are still in use today. Recreating those tools in
another RAD tool would be most time-consuming and tedious. Yes, I am a
stakeholder in the success of Rev.

I've worked with Malte's excellent Animation Engine to create a free .obj
(Wavefront 3d) loader and wireframe viewer which I use in a commercial
product today. If Rev goes away, so does a big part of my livelihood. So,
yes, I am a stakeholder in Rev.
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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt


Me too!

In the same way, I have invested a career using xtalk.  This is why I  
so often weigh in on modernizing xtalk and bringing it into the now.   
Look at the market share for Flex, Flash, Java, even Director... and  
compare this to the xtalk market share.  Now, do you think this has  
something to do with these other IDE's and languages paying attention  
to the web centered world?  To the graphics and media rich world?   
This is why I beg and beg for attention to the evolution of  
computing... my hope that the wonder that is xTalk natural language  
like programming will survive into the deep future and will have a  
greater effect on a larger percentage of that future.  To do so it  
would seem obvious to anyone that much more emphasis will have to be  
devoted to making xtalk environments web-facing and web native and  
that they have much more modern graphics and media tools and objects  
and attributes and functions... no?  I already feel like I am either  
walking with dinosaurs (or am one?).


Saying these things makes me no less loyal to xtalk than those who  
somehow think honesty will kill xtalk.  Over here in America we have  
a law against burning the flag but we know in our hearts that the  
freedom to burn our own flag is actually what makes America so  
strong.  We can make fun of ourselves (or at least we hope to again!).


Randall

On Feb 2, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:


Randall,
I can tell you that, yes, I am a stakeholder in the success of Rev.  
I have

invested no dollars, but have thousands of hours and many commercial
projects, for clients and our own company at stake. So, I am *MOST
INTERESTED* to see it succeed.

Dan Shafer and myself have hosted 3 annual conferences on the west  
coast
devoted to Rev. I've built my own set of tools in Rev and shared  
them with

the community. Many are still in use today. Recreating those tools in
another RAD tool would be most time-consuming and tedious. Yes, I am a
stakeholder in the success of Rev.

I've worked with Malte's excellent Animation Engine to create a  
free .obj

(Wavefront 3d) loader and wireframe viewer which I use in a commercial
product today. If Rev goes away, so does a big part of my  
livelihood. So,

yes, I am a stakeholder in Rev.
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Re: When should cmd-period work?

2009-02-02 Thread Jim Ault

If there is an error window displayed when you start a script, and that
window is hidden behind another, then it stays behind.  On the Mac (Panther
or later I believe) you can use Exposé to show the windows the app or all
windows of all apps.

In this case, clicking on the error dialog thumnail will let you see the
buttons and click them.

Try this with any script that runs long enough to use cmd-. to see if this
works in your case.

Hope this helps

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 2/2/09 4:01 PM, "Devin Asay"  wrote:

> 
> On Feb 2, 2009, at 2:44 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> 
>> I accidentally wrote a handler that called another handler that called
>> the first one, which called the second one, which called the first
>> one,
>> which...you know, like that. It wasn't really recursion because each
>> handler did a finite set of actions and didn't depend on the other. At
>> any rate, there was no recursion warning.
>> 
>> What it looked like from the outside was that Rev had become
>> unresponsive, though the cursor moved. No spinning beach ball, no
>> colored pizza, just the regular arrow, but clicking on anything failed
>> and the OS X dock had "Force Quit" in its menu. It took me several
>> force-quits before I figured out the problem was ID10T error.
>> 
>> The allowInterrupts was true, but command-period didn't intercept it.
>> Should it have? I wonder if that's even possible, since from the
>> script's point of view there was nothing wrong. It was doing exactly
>> what I told it to.
> 
> Hi Jacque,
> 
> This has happened to me several times in Rev 3.0, but I've never been
> able to pin it down to a recipe. It's almost like what happens when a
> running script throws an error and kicks you into debug mode, and you
> try to do things with the interface, but nothing works. Then you
> notice the error message and slap yourself in the forehead and say to
> yourself "What a dork!", then click the stop button in the script
> editor to get out of debug mode, and everything's fine. But when this
> happens you can't find anything to click, and you want to slap your
> computer instead. Cmd-period doesn't work because the script is
> already interrupted. It's almost like you really are in debug mode but
> the interface hasn't been updated to reflect that. Like you, I seem to
> notice it happen when handlers are calling handlers are calling
> handlers, in different objects.
> 
> It's very frustrating; maybe if we compare notes we can come up with a
> reliable recipe for reproducing it.
> 
> Devin
> 
> 
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
> 
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Re: Big issue with Rev


dunb...@aol.com wrote:

I don't suppose "/REVEXCLUDED02" means anything to anyone? I all of a sudden 
have a terrible feeling that "HC on steroids" notwithstanding, I am going to 
have issues getting this going. I am depressed.


No, never heard of it. But what is the name of your utility stack? If it 
starts with the chars "rev" then the IDE thinks it's an IDE stack, will 
treat it as such, and who knows what it'll do. Never name any stack with 
the first 3 letters "rev".


If your utility stack is named "fred" then never mind.

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Another SQL question

2009-02-02 Thread Sarah Reichelt

I highly recommend the various cheat sheets from Visibone
. I have their Browser book which covers
HTML, CSS & JavaScript and I find it invaluable when you just need to
check a tag or function. They have PHP & MySQL cards & posters too, so
if you are after a quick reference, it would be a great solution.

Cheers,
Sarah

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> Wow! Not in my reference manual it's not. 11.2 is "Numeric Types". But then
> I downloaded the PDF manual. Seems that it is either out of date or not
> "exactly" correct. I also searched for IN() in the manual and came up with
> squadouch.
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Re: When should cmd-period work?


Devin Asay wrote:


On Feb 2, 2009, at 2:44 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


I accidentally wrote a handler that called another handler that called
the first one, which called the second one, which called the first one,
which...you know, like that. It wasn't really recursion because each
handler did a finite set of actions and didn't depend on the other. At
any rate, there was no recursion warning.

What it looked like from the outside was that Rev had become
unresponsive, though the cursor moved. No spinning beach ball, no
colored pizza, just the regular arrow, but clicking on anything failed
and the OS X dock had "Force Quit" in its menu. It took me several
force-quits before I figured out the problem was ID10T error.

The allowInterrupts was true, but command-period didn't intercept it.
Should it have? I wonder if that's even possible, since from the
script's point of view there was nothing wrong. It was doing exactly
what I told it to.


Hi Jacque,

This has happened to me several times in Rev 3.0, but I've never been 
able to pin it down to a recipe. It's almost like what happens when a 
running script throws an error and kicks you into debug mode, and you 
try to do things with the interface, but nothing works. Then you notice 
the error message and slap yourself in the forehead and say to yourself 
"What a dork!", then click the stop button in the script editor to get 
out of debug mode, and everything's fine. But when this happens you 
can't find anything to click, and you want to slap your computer 
instead. Cmd-period doesn't work because the script is already 
interrupted. It's almost like you really are in debug mode but the 
interface hasn't been updated to reflect that. Like you, I seem to 
notice it happen when handlers are calling handlers are calling 
handlers, in different objects.


It's very frustrating; maybe if we compare notes we can come up with a 
reliable recipe for reproducing it.


I'll see if I can make a simpler stack that reproduces it. The one I'm 
working on isn't fit for pubic consumption. :) I never thought about it 
acting like it's in debug mode, but now that you mention it, yeah, 
that's what it seems like. Only I never got any error messages that I 
could see.


I figured out real quick to save before testing...

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: When should cmd-period work?


Jim Ault wrote:

If there is an error window displayed when you start a script, and that
window is hidden behind another, then it stays behind.  On the Mac (Panther
or later I believe) you can use Exposé to show the windows the app or all
windows of all apps.

In this case, clicking on the error dialog thumnail will let you see the
buttons and click them.

Try this with any script that runs long enough to use cmd-. to see if this
works in your case.


I'm pretty sure there was no error window open when I started. My work 
flow (after the first freeze-up) was: restart Rev, open the stack, edit 
a script (leaving the window open in the background,) click a button, 
freeze, force-quit. I'll check again though. Good idea about Expose.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

2009-02-02 Thread Brian Yennie

Ok, why then is asking for code addressable and rev native curves  
responded to as a threatening request?


It wasn't.

I've re-read the thread about 3 times just to make sure I didn't miss  
anything. Richard suggested Flex as an alternative. Scott gave some  
thoughtful input including his own frustrations on Rev's graphic  
capabilities versus thankfulness for good PNG support. I've chimed in  
multiple times when you've gone out and started insulting people.  
Several people have agreed with you that a native curve object is an  
excellent request.


You on the other hand went off the handle calling people attack dogs,  
pompous and Putin-like. Mixed in, you constantly belittle Revolution  
itself. Do you know the difference between constructive criticism and  
outright condescension?


Here's my suggestion. Try making some humble suggestions instead of  
pushing your grandiose vision on everyone. Because you don't seem to  
be able to do it without being offensive. You lament how Rev is  
"limping into the present" and "poorly champions" the vision of  
Hypercard's creators. You once asked where the "xtalked web functions"  
are... and yet many of us are shipping web-enabled products right now  
based on the literally dozens of powerful extensions Rev has brought  
to xTalk in this area. You stomp all over the idea of sockets being an  
acceptable xTalk layer, and yet I ask you... have you tried using  
sockets in other language? The power of simply bringing chunk  
expressions and xTalk syntax is enormous. And yet you dismiss  
something out-of-hand that you clearly know nothing about. That's not  
the way to get people to buy into your vision.


You are absolutely free to "burn the flag" and still love your  
country, as the analogy goes. But if you're gonna burn a flag among a  
bunch of war veterans, you better have some tact in how you go about  
it. And don't go ranting about peace and love to them if you can't be  
bothered to learn about the wars they fought in.


I for one welcome EVERYONE to share their vision for Rev. Just have a  
little humility and patience when you do it. Some people will agree  
with you, some will disagree. Some will offer alternative solutions.  
In the end, it will surely enrich the topic. I would quite like to  
actually discuss some of these features.


How about this. Clearly the two of us specifically clash, and I don't  
think we're going to suddenly agree. However, I for one would welcome  
a specific wish list of new graphic capabilities including a curve  
object. Perhaps one at a time, you could suggest some and we all could  
start discussing them, since everyone is probably sick of reading us  
"fight" =).


- Brian
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Re: When should cmd-period work?


Devin Asay wrote:

This has happened to me several times in Rev 3.0, but I've never been 
able to pin it down to a recipe. It's almost like what happens when a 
running script throws an error and kicks you into debug mode, and you 
try to do things with the interface, but nothing works.

...
It's very frustrating; maybe if we compare notes we can come up with a 
reliable recipe for reproducing it.


Easy peasy. Be prepared to force-quit, and don't have any other real 
work open when you try this. Make a stack with 2 fields, and name them 
"fldOne" and "fldTwo". Put this into the card script:



on closeField
   formatFld the short name of the target
end closeField


on formatFld pFldName
   set the numberformat to "0.0#"
   get fld pFldName
   put (it + 0) into fld pFldName
   update -- here's where you say goodbye for the session
end formatFld

on update
   formatFld "fldOne"
   formatFld "fldTwo"
   -- other code here, but you never get past the first line
end update

Then enter a number into the first field and hit the tab key or click 
out of it.


I checked using Expose for error dialogs, etc. Nada. See if you can 
Cmd-period out of it.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: When should cmd-period work?

Jacque, Devin-

Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:46:35 PM, you wrote:

>> interrupted. It's almost like you really are in debug mode but the
>> interface hasn't been updated to reflect that. Like you, I seem to 
>> notice it happen when handlers are calling handlers are calling 
>> handlers, in different objects.

I ran into this when writing the glx2 debugger as well. It seems like
the engine and the IDE get off-sync about whether you're in debug mode
or not. The menubar indicator isn't always right. If you check the
state of the tracereturn in the messagebox when you're in that limbo
state you'll probably find that it's false. I never have figured out
what sets it into that state, but setting it true from the messagebox
most of the time gets things back running. YMMV.

> I figured out real quick to save before testing...

 Yep.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: When should cmd-period work?


Mark Wieder wrote:

Jacque, Devin-

Monday, February 2, 2009, 4:46:35 PM, you wrote:


interrupted. It's almost like you really are in debug mode but the
interface hasn't been updated to reflect that. Like you, I seem to 
notice it happen when handlers are calling handlers are calling 
handlers, in different objects.


I ran into this when writing the glx2 debugger as well. It seems like
the engine and the IDE get off-sync about whether you're in debug mode
or not. The menubar indicator isn't always right. If you check the
state of the tracereturn in the messagebox when you're in that limbo
state you'll probably find that it's false. I never have figured out
what sets it into that state, but setting it true from the messagebox
most of the time gets things back running. YMMV.


I wish. Nothing is active or clickable, and I can't type into the 
message box. The IDE is also unresponsive, so none of the toolbar icons 
or menus work either. :(


"It's dead, Jim."

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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: When should cmd-period work?

Jacque-

Monday, February 2, 2009, 5:20:21 PM, you wrote:

> Easy peasy. Be prepared to force-quit, and don't have any other real
> work open when you try this. Make a stack with 2 fields, and name them
> "fldOne" and "fldTwo". Put this into the card script:

Interesting. It pegged *both* my cpus at about 85% for about two
minutes, then the cpu load dropped back down to about 2% (normal). No
memory leaks, it was holding constant the whole time. I would have
thought this would run into recursion limits, but apparently not. Had
to force-quit to get out, of course.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: When should cmd-period work?

Jacque-

Monday, February 2, 2009, 5:40:58 PM, you wrote:

> I wish. Nothing is active or clickable, and I can't type into the
> message box. The IDE is also unresponsive, so none of the toolbar icons
> or menus work either. :(

> "It's dead, Jim."

Yeah. I found that after trying your example. But that one's a tight
recursive loop without yielding any time for system tasks. I wish we
had a real interrupt trapped by the engine, but I fear it's just being
handled (or not) by a frontscript, and that's never getting called
because you used all the cpu's power.

I'm actually not that surprised by command-period not working in this
case, but I am surprised by the lack of recursion control and I'm
still scratching my head about the cpu usage...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: When should cmd-period work?


Mark Wieder wrote:

Jacque-

Monday, February 2, 2009, 5:20:21 PM, you wrote:


Easy peasy. Be prepared to force-quit, and don't have any other real
work open when you try this. Make a stack with 2 fields, and name them
"fldOne" and "fldTwo". Put this into the card script:


Interesting. It pegged *both* my cpus at about 85% for about two
minutes, then the cpu load dropped back down to about 2% (normal). No
memory leaks, it was holding constant the whole time. I would have
thought this would run into recursion limits, but apparently not. Had
to force-quit to get out, of course.



Yeah. So, bug report time. I'll write it up. Seems like if you lean on 
Cmd-period like I did though, one of those handlers should have been 
interrupted so you could get out.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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RE: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt