from:"peter"


Thanks Devin and Richmond.

Pete Haworth








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On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Devin Asay wrote:



On Nov 17, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:


I'm not 100% sure how to do this.  I guess it means finding where the
image library stack is then issuing a command of some sort when my  
app

starts up to bring that stack into my stack file?


That's the general idea. You find the stack that contains the images  
you are using as button icons, make a copy of it, then include it  
with your mainstack. You could even make it a substack of your  
mainstack to keep it in the same stack file. Then, in the stack that  
uses the images, include the statement, probably in a preOpenStack  
handler:


 start using stack "myIconStack" --or whatever it's called.

Once you do that all images in the used stack are available to be  
used in the calling stack.


Devin



On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Devin Asay wrote:



On Nov 17, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:


Thanks.  It will be a huge amount of work for me to change icon
numbers everywhere so I guess Stackrunner won't work for me.  Oh
well!


Pete,

You could include the Image Library stack with your stack and start
using it when it's opened by Stack Runner.

Devin




Pete Haworth

On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:02 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 11/17/10 11:45 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Just started using this and very happy but have come across a
problem
regarding button icons. I imported a set of icons into the image
library
in the IDE and refer to the icon numbers within the Image Library
when
specifying icons for buttons. All works fine in the IDE and
standalone
but in Stackrunner the icons are not displayed and the buttons  
are
invisible. I can click on them OK (if I guess where they are!).  
Any

ideas as to why this might be happening?


The IDE and the standalones it builds know about the image  
library,

but StackRunner does not. The best way to make your images always
available is to import them directly into your stack (the IDs will
change) and refer to the embedded image IDs as your icons. Those
will work anywhere.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Stackrunner

I'm not 100% sure how to do this.  I guess it means finding where the  
image library stack is then issuing a command of some sort when my app  
starts up to bring that stack into my stack file?


Pete Haworth

On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Devin Asay wrote:



On Nov 17, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:


Thanks.  It will be a huge amount of work for me to change icon
numbers everywhere so I guess Stackrunner won't work for me.  Oh  
well!


Pete,

You could include the Image Library stack with your stack and start  
using it when it's opened by Stack Runner.


Devin




Pete Haworth

On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:02 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 11/17/10 11:45 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:
Just started using this and very happy but have come across a  
problem

regarding button icons. I imported a set of icons into the image
library
in the IDE and refer to the icon numbers within the Image Library
when
specifying icons for buttons. All works fine in the IDE and
standalone
but in Stackrunner the icons are not displayed and the buttons are
invisible. I can click on them OK (if I guess where they are!). Any
ideas as to why this might be happening?


The IDE and the standalones it builds know about the image library,
but StackRunner does not. The best way to make your images always
available is to import them directly into your stack (the IDs will
change) and refer to the embedded image IDs as your icons. Those
will work anywhere.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: Stackrunner

Thanks.  It will be a huge amount of work for me to change icon  
numbers everywhere so I guess Stackrunner won't work for me.  Oh well!


Pete Haworth

On Nov 17, 2010, at 11:02 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 11/17/10 11:45 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Just started using this and very happy but have come across a problem
regarding button icons. I imported a set of icons into the image  
library
in the IDE and refer to the icon numbers within the Image Library  
when
specifying icons for buttons. All works fine in the IDE and  
standalone

but in Stackrunner the icons are not displayed and the buttons are
invisible. I can click on them OK (if I guess where they are!). Any
ideas as to why this might be happening?


The IDE and the standalones it builds know about the image library,  
but StackRunner does not. The best way to make your images always  
available is to import them directly into your stack (the IDs will  
change) and refer to the embedded image IDs as your icons. Those  
will work anywhere.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Stackrunner

Just started using this and very happy but have come across a problem  
regarding button icons.  I imported a set of icons into the image  
library in the IDE and refer to the icon numbers within the Image  
Library when specifying icons for buttons.  All works fine in the IDE  
and standalone but in Stackrunner the icons are not displayed and the  
buttons are invisible.  I can click on them OK (if I guess where they  
are!).  Any ideas as to why this might be happening?


Pete Haworth








http://www.mollysrevenge.com
http://www.sonicbids.com/MollysRevenge
http://www.myspace.com/mollysrevengeband








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Re: LiveCode and the Mac App Store


Ron,
I don't develop for iPad/iPhone (yet) but it seems to me that  
Revolution owe all its developers who do develop on that platform an  
answer to your questions and any others that would make it easier to  
develop apps for the Apple Store.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 16, 2010, at 8:06 PM, ron barber wrote:


As a follow up to my earlier question _can_ we use LiveCode desktop to
make desktop apps to be sold through the Apple store (Kevin's answer
was a qualified 'yes') Is anyone _actually_ moving forward with an app
for the Apple store?

I have an app that I want to make available in the store but I'm
worried that current set up may not meet Apple guidelines.

If so could you comment on how you eliminated or modified the way you:

1. Save prefs: currently I spit out another stack from a customprop
stored in the startupstack.
2. Listing your homepage in the About or Help menus or anywhere else.
In other words, Are you providing a way for users to contact you in a
way that Apple likes?
3. Auto checking upgrade options: currently my app checks a file on
homepage on startup and informs users if there is a newer version.

Any other parts of your application that you have modified to conform
to Apple's (current) guidelines?

Thanks for your suggestions...
Ron
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Re: SQLite Problem in 4.5


Hi Bob,
I forgot one important fact in deciding whether this is a bug or not -  
the SELECT statement worked fine in 4.0 with exactly the same data,  
NULLs and all.  So something got changed in 4.5 that caused this to  
stop working.  I will enter this issue into the QCC this afternoon.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

I don't think it is a bug. Since the NULL's are embedded into the  
SQL result, when LiveCode sees them it thinks it's an EOF of some  
kind (help me out Jacque wasn't this discussed in an earlier thread)?


If you had queried each column as is, then concatenated them in  
LiveCode, I think you would have gotten all the data. I think the  
query IS working, but the NULL in the cursor is being interpreted by  
LiveCode as an end of data marker. Should it be? I will leave that  
to bigger minds than mine. I think this behavior is a backwards  
compatibility issue with Metacard stacks or something. I vaguely  
remember this being discussed a few months ago. But I could be  
wrong. Well... not really. ;-)


Bob


On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Avoiding NULLs is always good I think.  But since SQLite itself  
works fine with them and LiveCode doesn't, this feels like a bug to  
me.  Should I enter it at the QCC?


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Ah hah! Nice catch. I thought Rev was supposed to interpret NULL  
as empty string, but with the concatenation, I suppose the NULL's  
would be embedded in the returned pseudo column (probably not the  
right word for it). That is a nice little gotcha there for anyone  
running this kind of query. Moral to story: avoid NULL values in  
LiveCode SQL databases?


Bob


On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Thanks Bob.  I think the problem may have something to do with  
NULL values in some of the columns coming back from the SELECT.   
When I fixed them, the SELECT worked fine in LiveCode.  The  
Firefox plugin was one of the utilities I used to check this out  
and it returned all the data correctly, even when there were  
NULLs in the columns.


Pete Haworth


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Re: DOWNLOADING REV 4.0.0



On Nov 16, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Richmond wrote:


On 11/16/2010 08:04 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
I love how unconnected discussions come together!  I just  
downloaded stackrunner and it seems to solve all my issues  
regarding standalone startup banners/using test files versus live  
files.  I point it to my application .rev file and it runs it as if  
it were a standalone, opening the live application database instead  
of the test one, but with no banner of any sort.  The only downside  
is that the OSX menubar item for the aplication says StackRunner  
instead of my application's name.


So while I'm a happy camper,


really? I am afraid that at present I feel that RunRev are camping  
things up a bit; so who is camper

than whom can be the next direction this discussion takes.


Sounds like we need to establish a scale of camp-ness


this seems to completely circumvent Revoution's plan to strongly  
discourage commercial distribution of LiveCode Personal  
applications via the startup banner or am I missing something?


Frankly, distributing a stack with a stackrunner as a commercial  
package doesn't look that good;
especially as anybody who can get their paws (sweaty or otherwise)  
on a copy of RR/LC can merrily

start mucking around with your stack.


Agree with that.  That's one of the reasons I've never liked using a  
secondary stack file as a solution to the problem of not being able to  
store data in a standalone.




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Re: DOWNLOADING REV 4.0.0

I love how unconnected discussions come together!  I just downloaded  
stackrunner and it seems to solve all my issues regarding standalone  
startup banners/using test files versus live files.  I point it to my  
application .rev file and it runs it as if it were a standalone,  
opening the live application database instead of the test one, but  
with no banner of any sort.  The only downside is that the OSX menubar  
item for the aplication says StackRunner instead of my application's  
name.


So while I'm a happy camper, this seems to completely circumvent  
Revoution's plan to strongly discourage commercial distribution of  
LiveCode Personal applications via the startup banner or am I missing  
something?


Pete Haworth

On Nov 16, 2010, at 7:33 AM, Richmond wrote:


On 11/16/2010 01:28 PM, Matthias Rebbe wrote:

Hi Joseba,

you could use Ken Ray´s stackrunner  instead 
http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/StackRunner.htm

Regards,

Matthia


Thanks: I have just downloaded all the versions of StackRunner (2.0  
and 1.3) to add to my special

RunRev resources external hard drive.

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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner


I'd be happy with that too.

Pete Haworth

On Nov 16, 2010, at 6:06 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Kevin Miller wrote:

I'm leaning towards shortening the banner time to 5 seconds.


That would be a very good option, IMO.

When SuperCard introduced a splash screen delay they originally went  
for 10 seconds, but I suggested they try the breath-holding test:
when the splash screen appears simply hold your breath until it goes  
away.


Sure, 10 seconds isn't a long time for most folks to hold their  
breath, but doing so it makes one very aware of how much time passes.


On paper or in a meeting, 10 second sounds like a short time.  But  
in actual use it feels like a very long time.


--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World
LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner

Yes, matter of fact I did just recently.  Turned out to be a data  
problem in my application which didn't manifest itself in the IDE but  
caused big performance problems in the standalone.  The only way I  
could track it down was to keep trying things/writing messages to a  
debug log, re-building a standalone, and testing the standalone many  
times until I found the problem. I would have never have found the  
problem without building a standalone and testing it.  I guess the  
experience is what made me so conscious of the standalone startup  
delay.  (Terry - thanks for the "player" suggestion - that sounds good  
but wouldn't have helped in this situation


This whole suggestion of using only the IDE is very puzzling to me.   
Yes, I am writing apps for my own use but I'm a retired programmer and  
unless things have changed mightily since I was getting paid to write  
code, there's a strong need to separate development, QA, and live  
versions of code, not just for the integrity of the code but of the  
data as well.  Rightly or wrongly, I think of the IDE as my  
development environment and the standalone as my QA/live environment.   
My apps were written so they determine what files to use and whether  
to do certain things or not based on whether they are running in the  
IDE or as a standalone. I even have my own "compile" function that  
sets up various custom properties than enable the standalone to work  
more efficiently.


I'll repeat again what I said in one of my earlier posts - I love  
working with LiveCode, it;s a great development tool, but I just don;t  
think it's good practice to subject the user to arbitrary delays when  
running perfectly legal copies of software.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 4:17 PM, zryip theSlug wrote:


A naive question: have you find so many differences between a project
in the IDE and the resulting application?


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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner

That's exactly what I would like to see.  Unfortunately, it seems as  
if Revolution has moved away from license keys so I doubt it will  
happen.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:31 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:


On 15/11/2010 20:37, Andre Garzia wrote:
(2) There is no way to distinguish your standalone running on your  
own
machine from your standalone running somewhere else. Any way to  
detect that
it is running on the same machine as the one used to develop the  
given
standalone will not be tamper proof. You can't trust any metric  
given by a
computer to identify itself. You can't trust MAC Addresses, HD  
Serial or CPU

Serial, all those can be spoofed.



That's right, you can't have a reliable check for the machine. But  
what you can do, and I would argue you should do, is check for a  
valid IDE license. So the rule could be:


a standalone built with Personal Edition will check whether the  
machine  has a valid licensed copy of the IDE on it

If there is no IDE, then you get the 10 second start-up screen.
If there is a valid IDE, you get no start-up screen (or maybe a 1- 
second start-up)


That way, anyone with the Personal Edition can build and run on  
(all) their own machines without being bothered.


-- Alex.
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Re: SQLite Problem in 4.5

Thanks Bob, I understand the quandary!  I still think it's a bug when  
a program does strange things with valid data but it's not a big deal  
now that I'm aware of the problem.


Pete Haworth








http://www.mollysrevenge.com
http://www.sonicbids.com/MollysRevenge
http://www.myspace.com/mollysrevengeband








On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

I don't think it is a bug. Since the NULL's are embedded into the  
SQL result, when LiveCode sees them it thinks it's an EOF of some  
kind (help me out Jacque wasn't this discussed in an earlier thread)?


If you had queried each column as is, then concatenated them in  
LiveCode, I think you would have gotten all the data. I think the  
query IS working, but the NULL in the cursor is being interpreted by  
LiveCode as an end of data marker. Should it be? I will leave that  
to bigger minds than mine. I think this behavior is a backwards  
compatibility issue with Metacard stacks or something. I vaguely  
remember this being discussed a few months ago. But I could be  
wrong. Well... not really. ;-)


Bob


On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Avoiding NULLs is always good I think.  But since SQLite itself  
works fine with them and LiveCode doesn't, this feels like a bug to  
me.  Should I enter it at the QCC?


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Ah hah! Nice catch. I thought Rev was supposed to interpret NULL  
as empty string, but with the concatenation, I suppose the NULL's  
would be embedded in the returned pseudo column (probably not the  
right word for it). That is a nice little gotcha there for anyone  
running this kind of query. Moral to story: avoid NULL values in  
LiveCode SQL databases?


Bob


On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Thanks Bob.  I think the problem may have something to do with  
NULL values in some of the columns coming back from the SELECT.   
When I fixed them, the SELECT worked fine in LiveCode.  The  
Firefox plugin was one of the utilities I used to check this out  
and it returned all the data correctly, even when there were  
NULLs in the columns.


Pete Haworth


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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner


When I'm testing and fixing bugs - a lot!

Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:45 PM, zryip theSlug wrote:


Far of all these considerations, a simple question: how many times you
open your application a day?


Regards,
--  
-Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8)

http://www.aslugontheroad.co.cc
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Re: SQLite Problem in 4.5

Avoiding NULLs is always good I think.  But since SQLite itself works  
fine with them and LiveCode doesn't, this feels like a bug to me.   
Should I enter it at the QCC?


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Ah hah! Nice catch. I thought Rev was supposed to interpret NULL as  
empty string, but with the concatenation, I suppose the NULL's would  
be embedded in the returned pseudo column (probably not the right  
word for it). That is a nice little gotcha there for anyone running  
this kind of query. Moral to story: avoid NULL values in LiveCode  
SQL databases?


Bob


On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Thanks Bob.  I think the problem may have something to do with NULL  
values in some of the columns coming back from the SELECT.  When I  
fixed them, the SELECT worked fine in LiveCode.  The Firefox plugin  
was one of the utilities I used to check this out and it returned  
all the data correctly, even when there were NULLs in the columns.


Pete Haworth


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Re: SQLite Problem in 4.5

Thanks Bob.  I think the problem may have something to do with NULL  
values in some of the columns coming back from the SELECT.  When I  
fixed them, the SELECT worked fine in LiveCode.  The Firefox plugin  
was one of the utilities I used to check this out and it returned all  
the data correctly, even when there were NULLs in the columns.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

OK just figured out what the syntax does. I ran this query against a  
Spiceworks sqLite database, substituting column and table names  
with  those in the Spiceworks database, and the query worked fine  
for me. At this point, what I would suggest is getting the sqLite  
plugin for Firefox and making queries directly against the sqLite  
database. See what you get then.


Bob


On Nov 13, 2010, at 9:59 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Just ran into a serious problem with and SQLite SELECT statement in  
4.5.


I'm selecting data from my database with the following SQLite  
statement


put revDataFromQuery(,,gDBID,myLine) after tdata

myline contains SELECT PlaceID, Name || ',' || City || ',' || State  
AS Location FROM Places ORDER BY Name


In 4.0, this successfully selects all the correct data.  In 4.5 is  
selects only 2 rows.  Same codebase, same database.  Executing the  
SELECT in 2 or 3 different SQLite query utilities returns the  
correct data


Has anyone run into this type of issue with 4.5?

Pete Haworth








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Re: SQLite Problem in 4.5


Hi Bob,
The double bar is a concatenation operator, same as the & in LiveCode

Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Peter, I do not know what the double bars are in an SQL statement.  
What do they do?


Bob


On Nov 13, 2010, at 9:59 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:

Just ran into a serious problem with and SQLite SELECT statement in  
4.5.


I'm selecting data from my database with the following SQLite  
statement


put revDataFromQuery(,,gDBID,myLine) after tdata

myline contains SELECT PlaceID, Name || ',' || City || ',' || State  
AS Location FROM Places ORDER BY Name


In 4.0, this successfully selects all the correct data.  In 4.5 is  
selects only 2 rows.  Same codebase, same database.  Executing the  
SELECT in 2 or 3 different SQLite query utilities returns the  
correct data


Has anyone run into this type of issue with 4.5?

Pete Haworth








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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner

That's good to know.  But there are still good reasons to keep the IDE  
and standalone versions separate even for personal applications.


Pete Haworth








http://www.mollysrevenge.com
http://www.sonicbids.com/MollysRevenge
http://www.myspace.com/mollysrevengeband








On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:


On 15/11/2010 20:43, "Peter Haworth"  wrote:

If I want to install my application on my laptop as well as my  
desktop

all for my own use, you're suggesting I install a pirate copy of the
IDE on one of my computers (I think).


No, we allow you to install the IDE on multiple machines provided it  
is for

your own personal use. Its a very generous license in that respect.
Standalones have to be marked because you *can* distribute them.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
LiveCode - Realize fast, compile-free coding


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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner

If I want to install my application on my laptop as well as my desktop  
all for my own use, you're suggesting I install a pirate copy of the  
IDE on one of my computers (I think).


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:33 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:


On 15/11/2010 20:23, "Jeffrey Massung"  wrote:


Ah, I see. But why build a standalone for your own computer?


Sorry to be blunt, but isn't that a bit of a silly question? If the  
personal
edition is for personal use, and RunRev's position is "why build a  
standalone
for your own computer?" then why offer it as a feature of the  
personal edition

at all?

I haven't looked at the personal edition, so maybe it's also used  
for academic
licenses or for distributing stacks among an academic institution  
(in which
case I understand the feature). But, I imagine that there's other  
ways that

could be done as well without the use of a banner.

For example, perhaps when the standalone is built there was an  
option to bind
the executable to a specific domain name or subdomain where any  
machine in

that range can run the application with no banner popup?


Well, if you're using stacks on your own computer, and you don't  
want to
wait for the banner to go away, and you don't want to pay more than  
$99, why
not run them in the IDE? You can create a standalone but you're  
going to
have to wait a short time while it loads. Its not exactly an  
eternity, I
have many applications that take longer than that to load. We might  
be open
to shortening it a little, but this is one of the differences  
between a

personal and commercial license.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
LiveCode - Realize fast, compile-free coding


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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner

I have a totally separate set of files and databases for testing in  
the IDE than I do for "live" running with the standalone.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 12:01 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:


On 15/11/2010 17:42, "Peter Haworth"  wrote:


I understand Kevin.  I just don't like the fact that a standalone
application I create from code I have written myself on my own
computer still has this delay in it when I run it on my own computer.


Ah, I see. But why build a standalone for your own computer?

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
LiveCode - Realize fast, compile-free coding


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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner

I understand Kevin.  I just don't like the fact that a standalone  
application I create from code I have written myself on my own  
computer still has this delay in it when I run it on my own computer.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 15, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:


On 15/11/2010 16:07, "Pete Haworth"  wrote:


Uh, no. There's a counter on the banner that counts down from 10.


Ah, I thought you were talking about the iOS platform where there is  
only a

5 second banner. You're correct, the desktop platform does do this.

Please bear in mind this is a $99 product. You can upgrade to  
commercial at
any time by paying the difference in price. There is no banner in  
any of the

commercial editions at all.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
LiveCode - Realize fast, compile-free coding


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Re: Getting the weekday name

2010-11-14 Thread Peter Haworth

Thanks.  I forgot that I have been using the SQLite strftime function  
to do all my date formatting/calculations so I think I'll just use that.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 14, 2010, at 12:35 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 11/13/10 4:55 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

The dates are coming from an SQL database, so they are in -mm-dd
format - will that work or do I need to convert them to some other  
dat?

I already have a function that converts the SQL dates to the external
format mm/dd/yy if that would work better.


You need to use your conversion function to change the dates to mm/ 
dd/yy format. Then use the convert command to convert that to the  
long date, and lift out the first item which will be the weekday name.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Getting the weekday name

The dates are coming from an SQL database, so they are in -mm-dd  
format - will that work or do I need to convert them to some other  
dat?  I already have a function that converts the SQL dates to the  
external format mm/dd/yy if that would work better.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 13, 2010, at 2:46 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 11/13/10 3:44 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
I'm using the datetimetoJulian function in Sarah's great datetime  
stack

as part of a way to get the alpha weekday name. The words in Sarah's
stack say that it's possible to get the day number of the week by  
taking

the remainder of dividing the Julian days by 7 but when I do that, I
consistently get a day number that is 2 less than it should be -  
that's

assuming of course that day 1 would be Sunday.

I can always just add 2 to the day number but wondering if anyone  
knows

why this would happen?


Just curious, do you really need Julian dates? If you already have  
an existing date in a valid format, it should convert to the long  
date successfully. That has the alpha day of the week as the first  
item.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Getting the weekday name

That sounds simpler!  I've never used convert and dateitems - what  
format would tdate have to be in?


Pete Haworth

On Nov 13, 2010, at 2:42 PM, Dick Kriesel wrote:


On 11/13/10 1:44 PM, "Peter Haworth"  wrote:


I'm using the datetimetoJulian function in Sarah's great datetime
stack as part of a way to get the alpha weekday name.  The words in
Sarah's stack say that it's possible to get the day number of the  
week
by taking the remainder of dividing the Julian days by 7 but when I  
do
that, I consistently get a day number that is 2 less than it should  
be

- that's assuming of course that day 1 would be Sunday.

I can always just add 2 to the day number but wondering if anyone
knows why this would happen?

Pete Haworth



Hi, Pete.  Might your task be easier using "dateItems" as this  
example does?


function dayOfWeek tDate
  convert tDate to dateItems
  return item last item of tDate of \
 "Sunday,Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday,Friday,Saturday"
end dayOfWeek

-- Dick


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Getting the weekday name

I'm using the datetimetoJulian function in Sarah's great datetime  
stack as part of a way to get the alpha weekday name.  The words in  
Sarah's stack say that it's possible to get the day number of the week  
by taking the remainder of dividing the Julian days by 7 but when I do  
that, I consistently get a day number that is 2 less than it should be  
- that's assuming of course that day 1 would be Sunday.


I can always just add 2 to the day number but wondering if anyone  
knows why this would happen?


Pete Haworth








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SQLite Problem in 4.5


Just ran into a serious problem with and SQLite SELECT statement in 4.5.

I'm selecting data from my database with the following SQLite statement

put revDataFromQuery(,,gDBID,myLine) after tdata

myline contains SELECT PlaceID, Name || ',' || City || ',' || State AS  
Location FROM Places ORDER BY Name


In 4.0, this successfully selects all the correct data.  In 4.5 is  
selects only 2 rows.  Same codebase, same database.  Executing the  
SELECT in 2 or 3 different SQLite query utilities returns the correct  
data


Has anyone run into this type of issue with 4.5?

Pete Haworth








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Re: LiveCode Personal Banner

I agree it wasn't a surprise, but sometimes the reality of things  
doesn't match expectations (there's no mention of the banner staying  
on the screen for 10 seconds).  At this point, I have no plans to  
offer my application for commercial use but I  ought to be able to run  
a standalone on my own computer without the banner appearing, or at  
least not for 10 seconds, every time I start the app.  Running my own  
app on my own computer is not "commercial use", unless I charge myself  
for the app ( I don;t think I can afford it though!).


This whole commercial use thing is fraught with loopholes I think.   
For example, let's say I develop some killer utility code in the  
personal version that is generically useful for lots of LiveCode  
developers and I sell it in the form of a stack file.  The developers  
pay me money, incorporate the code into their apps, build a standalone  
in a Livecode version that allows commercial distribution, and sell it  
on to their customers.  Am I breaking my license agreement?


Personally, I think there should still be a license key that ties  
LiveCode Personal to a specific computer, both the IDE and any  
standalones built with it.  Then my standalones won't display the  
message when they run on my computer but they will on any other.


I'm pretty much going back to 4.0 for now, at least to build  
standalones.  I don't have a use for the new features on 4.5 and using  
4.0 allows me to build standalones that don't bug me.  Of course at  
some point, I won;t be able to continue doing that as more  
enhancements are incorporated into LiveCode, but for now it works fine  
for me.


In the generals scheme of things, this isn't a big deal, LiveCode is  
still a great way to develop applications, it's just that licensing  
methods have always been a pet peeve of mine.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 13, 2010, at 8:14 AM, Malte Brill wrote:

Even though I can understand splash screens feel annoying, I can not  
see this as a surprise, as this is clearly stated on the runrev.com  
homepage:


"Applications created with this license will include a splash screen  
or watermark. The Server Deployment Pack comes with a limit on the  
number of connections with this license type."


http://runrev.com/products/livecode/license-types-overview

As that edition is much cheaper than previous studio licenses I can  
understand RRs decision in adding this. I don´t know about Director  
nowadays, but when I had to decide if it is RR or Director back in  
the day, each Projector built displayed a "Made with Macromedia"  
dialogue that could not be dismissed.


It is worth noting, that the commercial packs do not have this Banner.

Just my 2 € cents worth.

Cheers,

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LiveCode Personal Banner

I opted to go for the personal version of LiveCode when the name  
change happened.  I understand that I can't distribute apps with this  
version but I personally find it objectionable that I have to endure  
the banner announcing that for 10 seconds every time I start a  
standalone app - I'm running a legally licensed copy of the program on  
my own computer.  If it's not running on my computer, fine, tell me  
all about it and find a licensing scheme that deals with that  but let  
me run my licensed copy without bugging me please.


Pete Haworth








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Re: Bug Tracking


Chipp - where can I get a copy of Magic Carpet?

Pete Haworth

On Nov 12, 2010, at 10:16 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

f you decide to go with option (b) then you can do pretty much  
whatever you

want. Chipp Walters has a wonderful tool in the form of Magic Carpet.


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Re: Bug Tracking

Thanks Andre.  I guess I've gone down the path of rolling my own so  
far.  I don;t think I need the more exotic features like branching,  
merging, etc so I think I'll just go ahead and add the logic to copy  
the necessary files to a version folder when I set up a release.


I will check out Magic Carpet as well though!

Pete Haworth

On Nov 12, 2010, at 10:16 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:


Peter,

This was a hot topic some months ago here. There are many  
alternatives and

many users have rolled their own as well. Your first choice is:

(a) To use a standard VCS/SCM software such as Git, Mercurial, Darcs,
Bazaar, Svn, Fossil...

(b) Roll your own

If you go with letter (a) then you should notice that LiveCode  
stacks are
binary files and most of these systems are designed to use text  
files. So
while you can still use the versioning system as an archival system,  
your
"merge" operations will be troublesome since IIRC none of these  
software is

able to do binary merges or unknown file types.

I've used Mercurial with LiveCode and am quite happy with dumping  
binaries
into it since I don't do merges, I just want the ability to rollback  
if

needed.

If you decide to go with option (b) then you can do pretty much  
whatever you
want. Chipp Walters has a wonderful tool in the form of Magic  
Carpet. It is
available and it served me and Sivaktirswami well on our HTDE  
project. It is
a very good program and for simple needs (no merging, simple  
archival, no

branching) it solves the problem.

I know developers here have rolled their own import/export routines to
create textual formats of stacks to better use tools such as Git. I  
haven't

gone that far.

Andre

my two Brazilian Real cents
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Bug Tracking

I've learned over the last few days how important it is to keep track  
of code changes in each release of an app.  I already have a LiveCode  
app that lets me catalog bugs/enhancements, prioritise them, write  
notes about how they were fixed and define which release they were  
fixed in.  What's missing is a way to keep a copy of the code base  
(i.e. the stack files) for each release so I can go back to it later  
if necessary.


My ideal solution would be to simply copy the stack files to a folder  
for the release and then somehow kick off a build of the standalone  
application.  Copying the files won;t be a problem but is there any  
way to automate the build of a standalone?  It's not a huge deal to do  
it manually but would be a nice touch to automate it.  And the real  
icing on the cake would be to the equivalent of a diff on the code  
bases to see what changed between releases.


Does anyone else have a bug/version tracking tool they use and like?

Thanks,

Pete Haworth








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Re: Performance Mystery Solved - IT'S THE DATA STUPID!!

No problem Richard, fun tracking this stuff down.  After your last  
email, I now understand the exact reason for the slowdown.


I now plan to switch all my long name references over to use the  
control ID.  Everything in the doc says using the ID should be a safe  
way to uniquely identify a control but I've seen a few posts recently  
seeming to indicate that might not be the case (I know stack IDs  
change, just referring to control IDs).  There's a little trepidation  
on my part about that because I occasionally see posts that suggest  
that maybe there's issues with the uniqueness of IDs but hopefully I  
won;t run into them!


Pete Haworth

On Nov 12, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


I have to admit you guys left me behind a while ago.  But I'm glad I
may have created a platform for some knowledge that wasn't there
before, plus I've got a fix for my problem so yes, definitely a good
day!


Thanks again for not only bringing this up, but for diligently  
working it through to find the root cause.  Good work.


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Re: alerts

2010-11-11 Thread Peter Brigham MD


On Nov 11, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Mark Smith wrote:




Peter Brigham MD wrote:


The saving of the time in a customProp is because I have scripted
things so the stack is automatically saved every 20 minutes, or at
whatever interval the user chooses in the preferences. That feature
was irrelevant to your question and I could have taken it out,
probably should have to avoid confusing you




HI Peter, I'm glad you didn't. While I won't need it in the current  
project
I'll archive it as i'm sure it will come in handy eventually.  
However, rev
does not seem to be an environment that supports something like a  
"main

event loop" so either you are checking the time from lots of different
places or using some other technique? (can you set an "On every 10  
mins

do... handler?")


I have a "checkSave" handler triggered by any change of card or change  
of background or clicking of the "print" button. The handler checks to  
see how long since the last save and saves the stack if > 20 mins (or  
whatever, from the preferences). I had originally thought of using a  
timed loop, like:


send "doSave" to this stack in (uPrefSaveInterval * 60) seconds

but that way the save could happen in the middle of the user entering  
text, so I elected to trigger it by user actions that could be delayed  
by 1-2 seconds without annoying the user too much.


In general, the best way of having a "main event loop," as you called  
it, is to use the "sent in time" command -- see the "send entry in the  
dictionary. In this case, there would be a major disadvantage to doing  
it that way.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Performance Mystery Solved - IT'S THE DATA STUPID!!

I have to admit you guys left me behind a while ago.  But I'm glad I  
may have created a platform for some knowledge that wasn't there  
before, plus I've got a fix for my problem so yes, definitely a good  
day!


Pete Haworth

On Nov 11, 2010, at 7:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Great work, Monte!  Thanks for running that test.

So the difference is in addressing controls *within* a stack, but  
not with the stack itself.  Hard to anticipate, but very good to know.


So Peter has a solution, and I learned two new things today about  
performance.


A good day...


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Re: Performance Mystery Solved - IT'S THE DATA STUPID!!

Yes, that's what I'm seeing.  With the references to my .rev filepath  
in the control names, the card I'm using to test was taking around 35  
seconds to open.  I went through and manually removed the references  
to the filepath (that's the only thing I changed I swear!) and built  
the standalone again and now the card opens just about  
instantaneously.  So maybe there's a bug after all in that the .rev  
stack should only be loaded into memory at the first access to it but  
it's happening every time?


Whatever the issue, I have to change something because my standalone  
wouldn't run unless the .rev file was on the same computer and that  
doesn't make any sense.  I think I'm going to bite the bullet and  
change everything over to use control IDs instead of long names.


Pete Haworth

On Nov 11, 2010, at 5:12 PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

Unless you're explicitly purging the stacks, any access to a  
property of a stack file will load it into memory.  The first  
access will take a hit only if the stack isn't already in memory,  
but subsequent accesses should be about as fast whether referring  
to just the stack name or the stack file path, since they're  
interchangeable for mainstacks.


Hi Richard

I don't think this is entirely true. At least it wasn't when I was  
working on the standalone builder all those years ago. There was a  
massive difference in speed between looping over the controls of a  
stack if that stack was invisible toplevel compared to just  
referencing it as a filename. There was a user that was having  
extremely slow builds because they had so many controls.


Cheers

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Performance Mystery Solved - IT'S THE DATA STUPID!!

Figured out the IDE/Standalone performance issue, it's nothing to do  
with the code.


I my last email I mentioned how I have a custom property holding the  
long names of all the controls on a card that need to have data loaded  
into them from my database.  On closer inspection, the long name  
includes the name of the stack file which - duh - is my .rev file!!!   
So when the standalone gets the long name of a control from the custom  
property, it is referencing the control in my.rev file, not the  
control in the standalone, and presumably has to go open the .rev file  
every time my code refers to a control.  No wonder everything took  
longer.  Using the ID removes that problem of course.


I still have to figure out what to about this.  I can either change my  
code to use the ID everywhere instead of the long name, or I can  
somehow parse out the the part of the long name that is the path to  
my .rev file.  Or I could build the list of controls in the standalone  
(currently it specifically doesn't do that on the grounds that it  
didn't need to).


Sorry for the false alarms!

Pete Haworth








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Re: IDE/Standalone Performance Issues - A Light At The End of the Tunnel!


See answers below.

Pete Haworth



What's interesting there is that the control is only being  
referenced three times:  once to write the debug string, a second  
time to check the customKeys, and a third time to obtain the prop  
values.


Given that it's just three object references and most of the work is  
done in the repeat look that works on the list, it's hard to believe  
those three object references could account for the speed difference  
by themselves.


What does writeDebug look like, and what does the other half of the  
repeat look like (there's no closing "end repeat")?


Here's writeDebug and another function it calls getprefsFolderPath.

command writeDebug pText
   put getprefsFolderPath("BandTrak") & "debuglog.txt" into  
myPrefsFilePath

   write pText & return to file myPrefsFilePath
end writeDebug

function getPrefsFolderPath pSubFolder
   if the environment is "development" then
  put the effective filename of this stack into prefsFolder
  set the itemdelimiter to slash
  put item 1 to -2 of prefsFolder into prefsFolder
   else
  if the platform = "MacOS" then
 put specialFolderPath("Preferences") into prefsFolder
  else if the platform = "Win32" then
 put specialFolderPath(26) into prefsFolder
  end if
   end if
   if last char of prefsFolder is not "/" then
  put slash after prefsFolder
   end if
   if the environment is not "development" then
  put pSubFolder & slash after prefsFolder
   end if
   return prefsFolder
end getPrefsFolderPath

I didn't put the rest of the repeat lop in the example because the  
timing ends at the top of the repeat loop.  I can give you the code  
but it's basically executing an SQLite SELECT statement.  There's  
another time measurement at the completion of the SELECT and it  
indicates there's no significant difference between the IDE and the  
standalone for the SELECT execution.





And what exactly is in myID?  Have you verified that it's an  
integer, and that the name was as you expected it in the earlier  
version?


A little background for you.  This code is part of a library routine I  
have to load values from an SQLite SELECT statement into controls on  
the form.  All the controls on the form that relate to columns in the  
selected row start with DB_ followed by the name of the column.  In  
the IDE, whenever a card is opened, I create a list of the DB_  
controls and store them in a custom property named fieldList, one per  
line.  I'm currently storing the long name of each control in  
fieldList and I can see that they are in the correct format in the  
custom property.  There's an outer loop that processes every line in  
fieldList to load the data into the controls and to help track this  
down, I put the following statement in that loop:


put the ID of myControl into myID

myControl is the variable that holds one line from the fieldList  
custom property.  I guess that's a long winded way of saying yes, the  
long name formats look correct.  I haven't checked myID to see if it  
holds an integer but unless the put statement is doing something  
weird, I'm pretty sure it does.




Also, do you have any getProp handlers in your stack?


I do have some getProp and setProp handlers but not for the properties  
used in this section of code.  I had wondered if there was something  
of that nature happening, so I stepped through every line of code in  
debug to make sure it wasn't dashing off into some hidden direction  
like that and I didn;t see anything of that nature.


Perhaps most importantly:  are there any other stacks or libraries  
used by the standalone that aren't present in the IDE?


I don;t think so, certainly not intentionally,but I'm not sure how to  
tell.  I used the Stacks tab of the Standalone Application Settings to  
set the stacks other than the main application stack that were to be  
included in the standalone.






It is puzzling why your tests don't reflect what Im experiencing.


Yeah, me too. :)


Maybe it's something to do with the operation that is carried out on
the control.  In my case, most of the addressing of the controls
consists of getting/setting their properties, both standard and
custom.  Could it have anything to do with the fact that my code is
executed in a script that is held in a separate code library stack  
and

inserted as a front script?


Possibly. It may be helpful to log the frontScripts, the  
backScripts, and the stacksInUse in both the IDE and the standalone  
to see what differences there may be.  Of course you'll see a lot  
more of those in the IDE, which should theoretically either have no  
effect or make it slower, but perhaps a script is both in a library  
and a frontScript in the standalone, causing it to execute more than  
once.


OK I did that.  Here's the output from the IDE"

FrontScripts
card id 1004 of stack "/Users/Dad/RevDev/Code Library.rev"
card id 1003 of stack "/Users/Dad/RevDev/Code Library.rev"
card id 100

Re: IDE/Standalone Performance Issues - A Light At The End of the Tunnel!


Thanks for delving into this Richard.

Here's a small example section of code which I've changed to use the  
ID where it used to use the long name.  The variables are:


myIDholds the short ID of the control
pselection  a parameter passed into the command

put the milliseconds into mymilliseconds
writeDebug "Starting loadOneList"  && the abbrev name of control ID myID
if pselection is empty then
  if "listValues" is among the lines of the customKeys of control  
ID myID then

 put the listValues of control ID myID into tlistspec
  else
 put the text of control ID myID into tdata
  end if
   else
  put pselection into tlistspec
   end if
   if tlistspec is not empty then
  repeat for each line myLine in tlistspec
  writeDebug tab & (the milliseconds - mymilliseconds) & tab &  
"Start processing SELECT"  && myline


In the IDE, the 2nd writeDebug shows a value of 1 whether I use the  
long name or the ID of the control.  In the standalone, using the long  
name it shows a value of 731 and using the ID it shows 1 again.


It is puzzling why your tests don't reflect what Im experiencing.  
Maybe it's something to do with the operation that is carried out on  
the control.  In my case, most of the addressing of the controls  
consists of getting/setting their properties, both standard and  
custom.  Could it have anything to do with the fact that my code is  
executed in a script that is held in a separate code library stack and  
inserted as a front script?  The only other variable I can think of is  
the location of the debug log I'm writing to.  In the IDE, the debug  
log is in the same folder as the stack file but in the standalone it's  
in the users Library/Preferences/ folder.  This is running on  
a Mac of course.


All I have to do now is find all the places in my code where controls  
are referenced by their long name - oh joy!


Bob - I want to hold off just a little longer before submitting a  
bug.  The fact that Richard's tests don;t reflect what I'm seeing make  
me nervous that it's something I'm doing wrong!


Pete

On Nov 11, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:



Interesting.  I just ran this test:

on mouseUp
 put 10 into n
 --
 put the millisecs into t
 repeat n
   put the short id of this cd into tID
   put the name of cd id tID into r1
 end repeat
 put the millisecs - t into t1
 --
 put the millisecs into t
 repeat n
   put the long name of this cd into tName
   put the name of tName into r2
 end repeat
 put the millisecs - t into t2
 --
 put the millisecs into t
 repeat n
   put the number of this cd into tNum
   put the name of cd tNum into r3
 end repeat
 put the millisecs - t into t3
 --
 put t1 && t2 && t3 && (r1=r3)
end mouseUp


The results were roughly the same in both the MC and Rev IDEs:

221 954 209 true

So addressing by ordinal number is slightly faster than by ID, which  
has been the case since the HC days.  But I'm surprised by how much  
faster both are compared to addressing by name.


This got me curious as to whether long ID would be faster than long  
name, so I ran this:


on mouseUp
 put 10 into n
 --
 put the millisecs into t
 repeat n
   put the long id of this cd into tID
   put the name of tID into r1
 end repeat
 put the millisecs - t into t1
 --
 put the millisecs into t
 repeat n
   put the long name of this cd into tName
   put the name of tName into r2
 end repeat
 put the millisecs - t into t2
 --
 put t1 && t2 && (r1=r2)
end mouseUp


...and got this:

955 957 true

So it seems that the overhead of resolving absolute object  
references (long form) is much higher than what the engine can do  
when you're able to hard-wire part of the reference (e.g., "...of  
card id tID...").


Historically I've often used long IDs for the convenience of having  
an absolute object reference without regard to the type, but after  
seeing these results I can see that there's a benefit to hard-wire  
the type in script where practical.


Thanks for bringing this up.  Learn sumpin' new every day. :)



Finding the problem is good of course but does anyone know why there
are no performance issues referring to an object by it's long name in
the IDE but it causes such a performance hit in a standalone?


Interesting as it was to test the different ways to reference  
objects, in practical terms I think the performance issue you  
encountered is due to something else.


The tests shown above were run in 100,000 iterations.  So while it  
seems impressive that one took only 25% as much time as another, in  
a given iteration the longest one took only 0.00954 ms.


Unless you're addressing several hundred thousand objects at a time,  
it's hard to imagine how the difference could product a noticeable  
effect.


I even built a standalone of the test stack, and while it was  
somewhat slower (why would that be?) the difference between the IDE  
and the standalone was less than 8% total, or about 0.0008 ms per  
call.

IDE/Standalone Performance Issues - A Light At The End of the Tunnel!

I think I have found  the cause of the performance problems I have  
been experiencing.  I had been referring to objects by their long name  
in various places in the offending code.  I started changing the code  
to refer to the same objects by their short ID and each line of code I  
changed resulted in quicker performance.  I haven't been able to  
change all the code yet but the evidence is that the performance  
issues will go away when I start using the object IDs everywhere.


Finding the problem is good of course but does anyone know why there  
are no performance issues referring to an object by it's long name in  
the IDE but it causes such a performance hit in a standalone?  Maybe  
I'm misunderstanding the process of building a standalone but I would  
have thought a standalone would function more efficiently than the  
same code executed in the IDE not less, kinda like in the old days of  
interpretive vs compiled BASIC?


Pete Haworth








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Re: alerts

2010-11-11 Thread Peter Brigham MD


On Nov 10, 2010, at 11:46 PM, Mark Smith wrote:


Peter Brigham MD wrote:


Here's the way I do it. I show a small display stack, the idea is  
just

that it's a billboard to tell the user that the saving is occurring.
It closes after the save is done.

on doSave
   modeless stack "savingAlert"
   wait 10 millisecs
   save stack "pdData"
   set the lastSaved of stack "pdData" to the seconds
   close stack "savingAlert"
   go stack "pdData"
end doSave

-- Peter



Peter, thanks that looks very close to what I had in mind. And there  
is lots
in there for me to go explore too (as I've not played with modeless  
stack).
Sounds like "stack" might be another way of describing a window? Why  
do you
put the current seconds into the (I'm guessing) custom property of  
pdData?


Yes, pretty much stack = window, though stacks can be invisible, or  
have an offscreen location, or be "in use" as libraries and have no  
screen presence at all. Stacks as windows have different modes, which  
determine how or if the user can interact with them. Check out the  
"mode" entry in the LiveCode dictionary.


The saving of the time in a customProp is because I have scripted  
things so the stack is automatically saved every 20 minutes, or at  
whatever interval the user chooses in the preferences. That feature  
was irrelevant to your question and I could have taken it out,  
probably should have to avoid confusing you


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Code for Database Transaction Processing

2010-11-09 Thread Peter Haworth

This isn't specific example including complete code but the general  
flow is:


revExecuteSQL gDBID,"BEGIN TRANSACTION"
.
revdbExecute 
if error
revRollBackDatabase gDBID
exit
end if
.
revdbExecute 
if error
revRollBackDatabase gDBID
exit
end if
.
repeat the above for whatever SQL commands you need.
.
revdb_Commit(gDBID)


Note that if you don't issue the BEGIN and COMMIT commands, SQLite  
automatically treats each individual db update command you give it as  
a separate transaction.


There's a good write up of the SQLite transaction details at http://www.sqlite.org/lang_transaction.html 
.


Pete Haworth








On Nov 9, 2010, at 7:32 PM, Wilde Electric wrote:


Hello,

I have been unable to find any reference to code examples for doing
Transaction Processing with SQLite DB

I have only found a note from Trevor revExecuteSQL to BEGIN  
TRANSACTION etc

without an example.

Could someone provide a code example that starts with the BEGIN  
TRANSACTION

and finishing with COMMIT TRANSACTION?

Thank You for your help,

David J. Lamp


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Re: More on IDE vs Standalone Performance issues

2010-11-09 Thread Peter Haworth

Right now, it's all part of a pretty large application but I think I  
can create a simple test stack with one card in it, although you'll  
still need the SQLite database.


I haven't posted stack files before - how do I do that?

Pete Haworth


On Nov 9, 2010, at 12:10 PM, use-revolution-requ...@lists.runrev.com  
wrote:



Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:26:39 -0800
From: Bob Sneidar 
Subject: Re: More on IDE vs Standalone Performance issues
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: <6f5b0f5e-e1a5-4c49-93af-bca8c73fc...@twft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I think you are on to something there Peter. This may be something  
for the bug reports. Is there a test stack with the debug written  
into it that you could post so we can try it on our end?


Bob


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Re: [OT] legality of DVD backup


On Nov 9, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Richmond wrote:


fluid measurement: Scots pint ( = 4 English pints)


No wonder the Scots have a high tolerance for alcohol. "I'll have  
another pint, please."


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Method question


On Nov 9, 2010, at 1:48 PM, Glen Bojsza wrote:

I have a problem which I am not certain which method is valid or  
should be
used (with Rev / Livecode there are sometimes too many ways of  
achieving a

goal).

I have a graphic on a card left 62 right 462.

My objective is to allow a user to left click and drag across the  
graphic as

if selecting a section of it.

I need start left,top,right,bottom and end left,top,right,bottom.

The only interest is knowing the start of the drag when inside the  
graphic
and the end of the drag inside the graphic... with the following  
caveats.



  - The user may start the drag either outside the graphic and then
  continue the drag into the graphic (which is the start point) or  
start the

  drag inside the graphic which would be the start point.
  - The user may release the mouse button inside the graphic which
  indicates the stop point or release the mouse button outside the  
graphic
  where the stop point is at the point of the mouse leaving the  
graphic.



This seems like it should be simple but I am getting tied down but  
trying to

over complicate it?

This is for Windows and Linux .

Any elegant or simple solutions out there?


Would this do it?

local uStartPoint, uEndPoint

on mouseenter
   if the mouse is down then
   put the mouseloc into uStartPoint
   end if
end mouseenter

on mouseleave
if the mouse is down then
   put the mouseloc into uEndPoint
   end if
end mouseleave

on mousedown
   put the mouseloc into uStartPoint
end mousedown

on mouseup
   put the mouseloc into uEndPoint
end mouseup

Then use the script local variables in whatever handlers for your own  
purposes.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Beachball cursor Help


On Nov 9, 2010, at 1:36 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 11/9/10 11:33 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:

It
does seem that setting a cursor to an animated GIF ought to work  
out of
the box the way setting a button icon to an animated GIF does  
But if

there's a workaround for cursors I'd settle for that for now.


I don't think animated cursors are supported. I believe the new  
color cursor feature just translates standard image formats to the  
very specific requirements that cursors have in LiveCode. We used to  
have to do some of that ourselves, only with more limitations on  
color depth. Gifs for sure won't work, because they will get  
translated to the engine's internal format, so they are no longer  
gifs any more. Or, that's my take on it anyway.


Sounds as if cursors are intrinsically more difficult than button  
images. But it would be a great enhancement if LiveCode could fully  
implement animated cursors sometime.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Beachball cursor Help


On Nov 9, 2010, at 12:47 PM, Devin Asay wrote:



On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:


On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Devin Asay wrote:


So it seems like you could just set the cursor to the image id of
your choosing, and increment it in a repeat loop, just like 'set
cursor to busy'. Not tested:

put 67890,67891,67892,67893,67894,67895,67896,67897 into tAnimCursor
repeat with i = 1 to 100
put item i wrap (the number of items in tAnimCursor) of tAnimCursor
into tCurrentCursor
set the cursor to tCurrentCursor
wait 10
end repeat

Seems like this ought to work.


Well, OK, but I went ahead and used the http://ajaxload.info/ site to
download a great animated GIF cursor. So what do I do with that to
extract the individual images and list them separately in a loop? It
does seem that setting a cursor to an animated GIF ought to work out
of the box the way setting a button icon to an animated GIF does
But if there's a workaround for cursors I'd settle for that for now.


If you open an animated GIF in Preview on OS X it should show each  
frame separately. You could save each frame separately, then import  
them all into rev, give them consecutive IDs and use a routine  
similar to the one above (or the one Richard G. posted) and it ought  
to work.


Thanks, Devin.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



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More on IDE vs Standalone Performance issues

2010-11-09 Thread Peter Haworth

Spent the last day or so trying to get some data to track this problem  
down by inserting code to write details of the time taken for various  
chunks of code to execute into a text file so I could see what was  
going on.  I narrowed it down to a command that loads the text  
property of an option button by executing an SQLite SELECT statement  
that is defined in a custom property for the button, then setting the  
text property of the button to the resulting data.


I executed the code using exactly the same data in the same database  
both in the IDE and the standalone.


Here's a snippet from the debug file relating to the loading of one  
option button in the IDE:


Starting loadOneList button "DB_RcvblsAc"
0   Start processing SELECT...
1   End processing SELECT ...
1   Start setting menu text
1   End setting menu text

The number at the start of each line is the number of milliseconds  
since the start of the loadOneList command.


Now here is a same snippet taken from the debug file created by the  
standalone for the same button:


Starting loadOneList button "DB_RcvblsAc"
731 Start processing SELECT...
976 End processing SELECT...
976 Start setting menu text
2196End setting menu text

As you can see, the time taken between each display is hundreds of  
times more than in the IDE in every case.  It's not limited to just  
one snippet of code, it's universal.  Getting through loadOneList  
takes roughly 1 millisecond in the IDE and more than 2 seconds in the  
standalone.


Here's the code that is executed between the "Starting loadOneList"  
message and the "Start processing SELECT" message:


if pselection is empty then
  if "listValues" is among the lines of the customKeys of  
myControl then

 put the listValues of myControl into tlistspec
  else
 put the text of myControl into tdata
  end if
   else
  put pselection into tlistspec
   end if
   if tlistspec is not empty then
  repeat for each line myLine in tlistspec

I stepped through the code in debug to make sure it didn't head off in  
unexpected directions (eg setProp/getProp handlers) and there was  
nothing of that nature. The writing of the debug information takes  
some time but that should be the same overhead in the IDE and the  
standalone.


Help!

Pete Haworth








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Re: Beachball cursor Help


On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Devin Asay wrote:



On Nov 9, 2010, at 6:38 AM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:


I'm just fooling around with trying out an animated cursor, and I
can't get it to work. I tried importing an animated GIF then setting
the cursor to it, but I only get what looks like an opaque white mask
of the first frame of the GIF and no animation. Do I conclude that I
have to cycle through the frames of the GIF explicitly via script? I
would have thought that just setting the cursor to the image id  
number

would take care of that. I can do this with a button icon -- just
setting the icon of the button to the image ID of the GIF results  
in a

nice animated button image. Why doesn't his work with a cursor?


Peter,

When I have used animated gifs, I've just shown then hidden an image  
object. Of course, that's not really the same because they don't  
follow your mouse movement like a mouse cursor.


I'm not sure exactly what's going on behind the scenes with the  
'busy' cursor. I got curious and looked into it. The cursor icons  
are in a stack called "revCursors" for Windows and *nix, and a stack  
called "revMacCursors" for Mac OS. They're just image objects. I  
would think you could just replace the existing images with your own  
colorized ones, making sure the image ids match, and it should "just  
work".


That said, LiveCard 4.5 is supposed to have enhanced cursor support,  
including cursors with alpha blending.


I'm still using 4.0, since 4.5 crashes my most-often-used stack  
(reported to the support team, no word yet on resolution). I just  
tried out my little "test animated cursor" stack in 4.5 and what I get  
is a fixed cursor image (I assume the first image of the set). The one  
improvement over 4.0 is that the exact same handler in 4.0 changes the  
cursor to the mask (white) of the first image. At least 4.5 fills in  
the color. But no animation in either.


So it seems like you could just set the cursor to the image id of  
your choosing, and increment it in a repeat loop, just like 'set  
cursor to busy'. Not tested:


put 67890,67891,67892,67893,67894,67895,67896,67897 into tAnimCursor
repeat with i = 1 to 100
 put item i wrap (the number of items in tAnimCursor) of tAnimCursor  
into tCurrentCursor

 set the cursor to tCurrentCursor
 wait 10
end repeat

Seems like this ought to work.


Well, OK, but I went ahead and used the http://ajaxload.info/ site to  
download a great animated GIF cursor. So what do I do with that to  
extract the individual images and list them separately in a loop? It  
does seem that setting a cursor to an animated GIF ought to work out  
of the box the way setting a button icon to an animated GIF does  
But if there's a workaround for cursors I'd settle for that for now.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



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OT: Hardware recommendation for graphics card?

2010-11-09 Thread Peter Alcibiades

Friend of mine asked for advice on what sort of graphics card to put in a 
machine he is putting together for his kid.  It will be i5 probably, and he 
wants to get something that will be respectable with photoshop processing.  
An i3 of mine with onboard graphics was definitely not fast enough for him.

Is i5 even enough, should he go for i7?  Its not my area of expertise.  I 
am not even sure about the relative contributions of the graphics card and 
the processor in this.

Any suggestions gratefully received.  Money is an issue, but he wants 
something that will do a decent job first and foremost.

Peter
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Re: Beachball cursor Help

I'm just fooling around with trying out an animated cursor, and I  
can't get it to work. I tried importing an animated GIF then setting  
the cursor to it, but I only get what looks like an opaque white mask  
of the first frame of the GIF and no animation. Do I conclude that I  
have to cycle through the frames of the GIF explicitly via script? I  
would have thought that just setting the cursor to the image id number  
would take care of that. I can do this with a button icon -- just  
setting the icon of the button to the image ID of the GIF results in a  
nice animated button image. Why doesn't his work with a cursor?


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Nov 8, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Devin Asay wrote:


Joe,

I'd use a spinning daisy cursor. See http://ajaxload.info/ for a  
slick utility that will generate a custom animated gif for you.


Devin


On Nov 8, 2010, at 8:46 AM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:


Hi all,

Instead of the b/w cursor "busy", I'd love to use the more colorful  
beachball. Anyone know how that is accomplished?

TIA
Joe Wilkins

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Re: alerts

2010-11-08 Thread Peter Brigham MD

In my case the save takes at most 2 seconds. Progress bar probably not  
needed. Also, it's impossible (AFAIK) to tell in advance how long a  
save will take, to the only progress bar possible for this situation  
would be a barber-pole type bar.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Nov 8, 2010, at 9:51 AM, william humphrey wrote:


Except it should have a progress bar.

On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Peter Brigham MD   
wrote:


Here's the way I do it. I show a small display stack, the idea is  
just that
it's a billboard to tell the user that the saving is occurring. It  
closes

after the save is done.

on doSave
 modeless stack "savingAlert"
 wait 10 millisecs
 save stack "pdData"
 set the lastSaved of stack "pdData" to the seconds
 close stack "savingAlert"
 go stack "pdData"
end doSave

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig




On Nov 8, 2010, at 1:24 AM, Mark Smith wrote:



Hi Craig,

Forget the part about not knowing when a save is done... I'm a  
little

tired
at the moment but did figure it out.

I have code that says:

on mouseUp
save this stack
end mouseUp

Pretty simple. But there is no visible indication to the user in  
my stack

that anything happened. So what I want to do is:

on mouseUp
-- show a dialog saying we're saving now... (sort of like what  
runrev

itself does when you do cmd-S)
save this stack
-- dismiss the dialog
end mouseUp

BUT, the only dialogs I have found in runrev are ask or answer,  
both of
which require the user to dismiss them. How do you do an  
information only

dialog (or is it an alert?) that does not require user intervention?

PS which reminds me, is there anyway to see how the IDE itself was
implemented? (i'd go look at the code for the IDE's save command).  
I've
heard or read that it is possible to do that but haven;t  
discovered how.


Thanks again,

-- Mark
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--
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Re: alerts

2010-11-08 Thread Peter Brigham MD

Here's the way I do it. I show a small display stack, the idea is just  
that it's a billboard to tell the user that the saving is occurring.  
It closes after the save is done.


on doSave
   modeless stack "savingAlert"
   wait 10 millisecs
   save stack "pdData"
   set the lastSaved of stack "pdData" to the seconds
   close stack "savingAlert"
   go stack "pdData"
end doSave

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



On Nov 8, 2010, at 1:24 AM, Mark Smith wrote:



Hi Craig,

Forget the part about not knowing when a save is done... I'm a  
little tired

at the moment but did figure it out.

I have code that says:

on mouseUp
  save this stack
end mouseUp

Pretty simple. But there is no visible indication to the user in my  
stack

that anything happened. So what I want to do is:

on mouseUp
  -- show a dialog saying we're saving now... (sort of like what  
runrev

itself does when you do cmd-S)
  save this stack
  -- dismiss the dialog
end mouseUp

BUT, the only dialogs I have found in runrev are ask or answer, both  
of
which require the user to dismiss them. How do you do an information  
only

dialog (or is it an alert?) that does not require user intervention?

PS which reminds me, is there anyway to see how the IDE itself was
implemented? (i'd go look at the code for the IDE's save command).  
I've
heard or read that it is possible to do that but haven;t discovered  
how.


Thanks again,

-- Mark
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Re: Painfully slow performance (Trevor DeVore)

2010-11-07 Thread Peter Haworth

Thanks for all the input.  I've pretty much ruled out SQLite as the  
cause of the problem because I'm using the same database in the IDE  
and the standalone so unless the standalone is using a different  
SQLite library than the IDE, there shouldn't be any difference in  
performance between the two.


Maybe it would help if I give a little more detail as to what is  
happening on the card.


The basic design of most of my cards involves a datagrid which  
displays summary information about selected table entries.  When the  
user clicks on a row in the datagrid, I get the single entry  
associated with that row from the SQLite table and load information  
from it into controls on the form.  I use naming conventions for the  
controls that allow the code to figure out which column in the table  
entry they are associated with.


The slow down in performance is directly related to the number of  
option buttons on the card - no option buttons, no slowdown.  For a  
card with several option buttons, when I click on a datagrid row in  
the IDE, the update of the controls on the card is instantaneous.   
When I do the same thing in the standalone, the update of the controls  
is painfully slow.  This is using exactly the same data from the same  
database.


The code to handle option buttons simply executes a SELECT statement  
to get data from the database, a simple set statement to set the text  
of the control to the data from the SELECT statement and another  
statement to set the menuhistory of the control using the lineoffset  
function to locate the value of the column in the current table row to  
the text of the control.


Help!


Pete Haworth









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Slow Performance - Update

2010-11-06 Thread Peter Haworth

I guess I was too hasty in accusing LiveCode 4.5 of performance  
issues!  I rebuilt my application using Rev Studio 4.0 using the same  
code base and the performance issues are still there in the standalone.


So the issue now is that the problem doesn't occur in the IDE, only in  
the standalone and I don't see any code that distinguishes between the  
two environments.  I've isolated the problem down to some code that  
loads entries into option menus by querying my SQLite database.  I've  
checked the timing of the SQLite query and nothing seems awry there.


Does anyone have any tips on how to debug something like this in a  
standalone without using a large number of "answer information"  
statements or any tips on things that work fine in the IDE but perform  
slowly in a standalone?  The only major code change I can think of is  
that I am using the long name of various controls and I used to use  
the unique ID, but once again why would that cause a problem in a  
standalone and not in the IDE.


Any suggestions most welcome!

Pete Haworth







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Painfully slow performance

2010-11-06 Thread Peter Haworth

I just built my first standalone with LiveCode 4.5 (on OSX) and I'm  
seeing painfully slow performance compared to the same application  
built with 4.0.


I'm using an SQLite database to populate all the data on the cards in  
the app, not sure if there's some problem with the SQLite side of  
things.  Only other thing I can think of is that I am using several  
front scripts.  Opening a card used to be almost instantaneous, now  
it's taking 30-45 seconds.  Bringing up the data for a different  
SQLite row used to be instantaneous, now takes 10 seconds or so.  This  
is consistant across all the cards that handle data fro any table in  
my SQLite database.


The 4.0 standalone still works just fine using the same database.

Any ideas?

Pete Haworth









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Re: OT: Some help with Regular Expressions

2010-11-04 Thread Peter Brigham MD

Why not do it in LiveCode rather than using regex? Assuming that the  
3rd and 9th char of a properly formatted string must be a period, and  
all other chars must be alphanumeric:


constant alphNumChars = "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789"
constant alphNumPlaces = "1,2,4,5,6,7,8,10,11"

function testFormat strg
   -- format should be: XX.Y.ZZ
   if length(strg) <> 11 then return false
   if char 3 of str <> "." then return false
   if char 9 of strg <> "." then return false
   repeat for each item i of alphNumPlaces
  if char i of strg is not in alphNumChars then return false
   end repeat
   return true
end testFormat

call it with:

   if testFormat(tInput) then
  -- valid string, do whatever
   else
  -- invalid string, do something else
   end if

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Nov 4, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Matthias Rebbe wrote:


Dear all,

i have to check for an value in the format  XX.Y.ZZZ (e.g.   
A1.B35AZ.001 or a1.b35az.001)
I have to check if the value is in the right format. I know i can do  
that with matchtext and a regular expression, but

i do not know enough to get the regular expression to work.

Is there anyone who might be able to help?

Regards,

Matthias


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Re: [ANN] DGH 1.1.3 is ready for Linux


zyrip, it did not work for me, but chown -R of runrev to my account did.  I
still don't understand the reregistration problem but will raise it with
support.
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Re: a weird thing about registration, Linux


A solution is to change owner.  After chown to my user, it runs and updates
the DGH fine.  Should not have to do this, however, and it does not solve
the problem that every account should be able to use it.  I will write to
support.
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Re: a weird thing about registration, Linux


Nope, same thing.  Also su -m -p, or su -p, also same thing.  Weird.  
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Re: a weird thing about registration, Linux

pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ ls
Documentation livecode.x86 Resources Runtime
Externals Pluginsrevpdfprinter.so Toolset
License Agreement.txt Release Notes.pdf revsecurity.so
pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ ./livecode.x86
pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ pwd
/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5
pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ su
Password:
:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5# pwd
/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5
:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5# ./livecode.x86
:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5#

So, if you do su the working directory remains the same. If you are in the
working directory without su, Rev starts. If you are in the same working
directory after having done su, it asks you to register.

Don't get it. The difference of course is that when it works, its
identifying the user:

pe...@:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5$ ./livecode.x86

as opposed to in the other case, where the prompt is just

:/opt/runrev/livecode-4.5# ./livecode.x86

So the difference is, it is looking for the registration in a particular
user home folder? But in that case, why install in /opt? And why restrict
the use to one account on a multi account system? Makes no sense, no-one
else does it, do they?

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Re: Escape key doesn't work with fullScreen?

2010-11-01 Thread Peter Brigham MD


At the risk of repeating something posted to this list last year

I hate this damn computer
I wish that I could sell it.
It never does what I want it to,
Only what I tell it!

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Nov 1, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

I have never seen that bug. it>


Bob


On Oct 31, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Mike Bonner wrote:


I have that problem crop up quite often. My brother tells me its a
problem between the keyboard and chair.  I've never been quite sure
what he meant by that..

On 10/31/10, J. Landman Gay  wrote:

On 10/31/10 3:03 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

This cognition bug is not fixable by RunRev, and has been marked  
as a

duplicate of several related reports. ;)


LOL! You're talking about some of my reports, right? :)

--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: a weird thing about registration, Linux


Yes, there is a .revolution folder.  And it does indeed have a cryptic
preferences text file in it.  But what I'm having trouble understanding is
that if I just acquire root permissions, by doing

  su

rather than doing

 su -

Then I retain the same home directory.  So if I then fire up rev, why does
it not find the preference files?  Is it somehow distinguishing between me
logged on with and without root privileges?  And why on earth would they
want to do that?

I can just about understand that if I do su -, which places me in the root
home directory, it might have some trouble.  But I can't understand why if,
as myself, I simply acquire root privileges, it should not find all its
files?

Peter
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a weird thing about registration, Linux

Has anyone else had this?

I installed and registered my 4.5 copy.  Works fine.  Now, I want to update 
the Slug's package.  It won't let me, most likely because its installed the 
app in /opt and as user I have no write privileges there.

OK, no problem, become root with the root environment, fire up LC.  Asks me 
to register!

Think, OK, maybe this is due to having the root environment, so just do su.  
Same thing.

OK, maybe this is something to do with root or root privileges, so log out, 
log on as another account.  Same thing.

This is weird.  The only point of installing in /opt as opposed to 
/home/user would be to let all accounts have access to the app in a multi 
account environment, but it seems in some way to be restricting use of the 
app to just one account?  Cannot be, surely?

I can always do it manually, download the package, delete the existing plug 
in, so that's not a problem.  The problem is if registration is restricting 
to just one account on a machine.  To be clear, no-one else uses Rev on my 
machine, but for various reasons I do use multiple accounts on the same 
machine myself and can't see why I should have to register not only by 
machine, but by account.  Anyone else getting this?

Peter
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Re: LiveCode Linux version: graphic effects issue with the name of a push button


Zryip, another thing which is probably a Linux peculiarity, the DGH is asking
should it do an upgrade.  So you say yes, but then it can't open the file.

Its probably permissions.  The LC app is installed into /opt, and of course
the user does not have write permissions in /opt, which is what the DGH will
require.  I'll have to try it as root but that's almost certainly what it
is.  No longer recall exactly how I got it to install in the first place, it
was probably by copying into plug-ins as root.
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Re: LiveCode Linux version: graphic effects issue with the name of a push button


Yes, I get this too.  Always assumed it was a feature, just the way it works. 
How are you modifying the button graphic?  What I have done is underlay a
graphic with a transparent button not showing its name, but you'll have
thought of that.

Peter
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Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?

2010-10-31 Thread Peter Alcibiades


Chipp, not saying you are wrong, but how would you know?  That's the thing
that got me, and why I think Alejandro's thought of taking Windows offline
is quite sensible.  The problem with windows getting compromised is I am not
sure you necessarily know when its happened.  Most studies on anti malware
seem to show that you need more than one, and even then, you don't catch
everything.  That's why I refuse to disinfect now.  It takes forever, and
you cannot promise a proper job even then.
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Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?

2010-10-31 Thread Peter Alcibiades

Yes, it was the annual hackfests. I only know two people with OSX, and
neither one has been compromised. Whether the Unix underpinnings make OSX
more secure? I think the hacks, but maybe others recall better, were due to
applications and privilege escalation.

I am really not sure what to conclude about real world safety. If you set
up all three systems the same way, with the same basic precautions, would
there be any significant differences in security? Don't know. I do know
that I have had two people recently, one with 7 and one with XP, ask me for
help with compromised systems. I refuse to try to disinfect now, so one who
did not want to risk it again got Mandriva, with which he is very happy, in
fact, despite my efforts to explain, I suspect he may think its Windows 8 or
9, and the other got an OEM copy of 7, and we will be doing a reformat and
reinstall shortly.

I do think there is a very different attitude on the part of developers.
Linux, you see it in everything, is completely paranoid about security. I
recall years ago when the kde dialer went to enormous lengths to take root
privileges for the shortest possible and most limited time. Apple I think
is quite casual because of years of low risk. Windows seems to have this
strange mixture of not taking the most basic precautions, and then layering
on all kinds of stuff to protect it.

I have never heard of a non-server compromised Linux install.
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Re: Stress-testing SQLite

2010-10-31 Thread Peter Brigham MD


On Oct 30, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

With LiveCode, for example, fields can *theoretically* hold up to  
4GB, but I pity the person who tries it.


There's often a vast difference between theoretical addressing  
limits and real-world use, hence my interest in finding actual use  
cases for SQLite.


As Yogi Berra said, "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but  
in practice they're different."


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?

2010-10-31 Thread Peter Alcibiades


Yes, the interesting question, don't know the answer, is if you set up
windows in the same way Linux is normally set up, limited user accounts and
so on, how much more vulnerable would it be?  Those hack fests they have
every so often suggest that OSX is a dead duck almost right away, Windows
not long after, and Linux holds out longest.  But I don't know what the
starting setup is on the windows installation.

Peter
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Re: [OT] Browsing the internet... It is safer from Linux?

2010-10-30 Thread Peter Alcibiades

I don't know if its safer than current versions of Windows 7 intelligently
used. It certainly is a lot safer than earlier versions of XP, used as they
came out of the box.

One reason is that desktop linux is a small population and so not being
targeted.

A second is when you do an install, it will obliged you to set up a root
account and a lmited user account, and your limited user account will not be
able to get at the system files. A typical example of this is with Rev
sorry LiveCode - download the new version, try to install it, cannot. Its
not executable, and then, it tries to install itself in /opt and you have to
be root to do that.

A third is that all payload will arrive as being unexecutable, and most of
the time marked read-only. One of the things you always have to explain to
people when putting in Linux for them is how to change permissions, because
if not, one of the standard questions you'll get sooner or later is that
someone sent me a word processing file and I cannot edit it. Right, its
marked read only.

So you contrast that with a situation in which for decades everyone used the
internet with administrative prilvileges, all downloaded files arrived
market executable. Then we had the saga of Explorer and all its holes, all
the Office macros

But the real question might be this: if you were to set up your windows
install to always work as limited user, and if you enable privacy between
user accounts, and finally if you use a dedicated account for all financial
transactions and only use that account to go to a very small number of known
financial sites, and if you have up to date anti virus, are you any more at
risk than on Linux?

I don't know. I hear of compromised windows installations all the time.
Admittedly they are not Windows 7 mostly, though I heard of one of these the
other day. They are not set up like that either, they are the standard
default set-up. My feeling is that you probably can keep a windows
installation safe, if you work at it, and really keep your protection
software up to date. Its just a question of what you want to spend your
time doing. For what its worth, my own decision years ago was to do what
you are suggesting. I do run XP in a VM for the rare occasions when its
necessary, but almost never connect to the net with it. I decided that I
could probably keep Windows secure if I worked at it, but that life is too
short, and I the big difficulty was how I would know I had succeeded.

As to one of those risks on one of your links, guest users, well, of course
you set up a guest account on any Linux install, and if people want to use
your machine you sign them on as guest. You don't allow the guest group to
read any of the other user files, even. You can wipe and recreate the guest
account as often as you feel the need. You could do this on windows too,
but no-one does.

Slax is a good live CD distribution. It might also be worth looking at
Vector live and Zenwalk live - they will be faster than most live
distributions. I would install Debian Stable if doing a proper desktop
installation.

Once you start using Linux routinely, you will be surprised how little you
need Windows.
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Re: The siglum key explained.

2010-10-29 Thread Peter Brigham MD


See Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#QWERTY

The siglum at topleft seems to be found in Scandinavian countries and  
in Holland, at least in the QWERTY layout. The british version at  
least in this article, doesn't have any siglum key at all (must be an  
alt/option-key combination).


I never realized how much variation there is in these things.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Oct 29, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Jim Sims wrote:



On Oct 29, 2010, at 6:31 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

I've never seen it that way. All my Mac keyboards have a tilde in  
that position. International differences, maybe?




Yup, my UK English has the siglum and a plus/minus in the upper left  
corner.


There are UK, American, Universal (I think that's the name)  English  
keyboard versions.



sims





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Re: revweb plug-in for linux

2010-10-29 Thread Peter Alcibiades


Thanks guys, food for thought.  This would probably do most of it, have him
able to write it in something he is comfortable with, but also centralize it
so as not to proliferate copies.  Should have thought of it.  Thanks.
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auto identification of connected printer (Mac)

2010-10-28 Thread Peter Brigham MD

In case anyone else would find it useful, I've finally managed to tune  
up my handlers for LiveCode printing from a Mac laptop, designed to  
avoid any unnecessary printing dialogs. This is useful if you, like  
me, use a LiveCode app on your laptop in a number of different venues  
and need to print using the currently connected printer. I got annoyed  
that every time I switched venues I had to tell the system what  
printer to use (I do a lot of printing of patient notes,  
prescriptions, etc.). The system knows what's connected, right? So if  
I have one and only one printer connected why should it have to ask me  
to choose my printer?


The set of handlers below will detect the currently available printer,  
whether connected by USB or on a wireless network, and automatically  
send the print job to that printer (if I'm printing from a LiveCode  
script).


The way it works is this -- the IO registry is queried with a shell  
call and the result is parsed to identify USB-connected printers (not  
a foolproof algorithm, but seems to work so far). If the IOR listing  
is already associated with a printer name then that printer is used,  
all done. If no printer name has been associated with the IOR listing  
then the user is asked to identify the printer to be used and the IOR  
listing / printerName association is stored as a custom prop, so that  
thereafter it will be used automatically.


If there are no USB printers identified, a shell call fetches the MAC  
address of any wireless network you are connected to. If none, then  
the user gets "not connected to any printer," and printing is aborted.  
Otherwise, the user is asked once, as above, to identify the printer  
on that network, and the MAC address / printerName association is  
stored for future use.


To use, just call "checkPrinter" before any printing command in  
LiveCode, and everything else is taken care of. Should work on Mac  
laptops. Sorry, I don't have a Windows or Linux laptop to develop the  
corresponding routines on for the other OSes, but that should be do- 
able for anyone with the need.


Thanks to the dozen or more members of this list that have helped me  
with ideas, shell calls, etc. I absolutely could not have done it  
without you.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig

-

constant storageStack = ""
-- the short name of the stack that stores the customprops for the  
printer names


on checkPrinter printingWhat
   if the controlkey is down then
  -- bypass the routines entirely
  answer printer
  exit checkPrinter
   end if
   -- get listing of connected printer in IO registry, and MAC  
address for wireless

   put getActivePrinter() into tLivePrinterInIOR
   put sr(tLivePrinterInIOR) into tLivePrinterInIOR
   put tLivePrinterInIOR into IORrawPrinterList
   put the printername into origPrinterName
   put getWirelessMACaddress() into MACaddr

   if tLivePrinterInIOR = empty then
  -- no USB printer detected
  if MACaddr = empty then
 put "You are not connected to any active printer. Please  
check that" && \
"your printer is turned on and connected properly."  
into cmt

 answer cmt as sheet
 exit to top -- abort printing
  else -- connected to a network
 put the MACaddrToPrinterName[MACaddr] of stack storageStack  
into tLivePrinterName

 if tLivePrinterName <> empty then
set the printername to tPossiblePrinterName
 else
put "Please choose the wireless printer on this network"  
&& \

   "so it can be identified in the future." into cmt
answer cmt as sheet
set the systemprintselector to true
answer printer
-- sets the printername (used by Rev for printing)
if the result = "cancel" then exit to top
-- abort printing
put the printername into tPrinterName
set the MACaddrToPrinterName[MACaddr] of stack  
storageStack to tPrinterName

-- store printer name for this device
 end if
 exit checkPrinter -- proceed to printing
  end if
   end if

   -- the following is when there is a possible USB printer and no  
wireless printer


   -- more than one device might be a printer
   -- but we might know this printer already
   repeat for each line p in tLivePrinterInIOR
  put the IORtoPrinterName[p] of stack "PDdata" into  
tPossiblePrinterName

  if tPossiblePrinterName <> empty then
 -- found a known printer, set it, then done
 set the printername to tPossiblePrinterName
 exit checkPrinter -- proceed to printing
  end if
   end repeat
   -- no known printers found,
   -- ask user to sort it out
   -- have to construct answer dialog
   -- with butto

Re: revweb plug-in for linux

2010-10-28 Thread Peter Alcibiades

Its a really simple application, its for a guy that I work with. I would
really like for him to be able to write it and keep it going himself. I am
lately rather seriously in the mode of lessening people's dependence on me
for this stuff. What it is, he will have a large map on a big screen. The
map will have various links on it, and people will click on them and find
stuff of interest, footpaths and routes, local history material, zoom in to
photographs and topics. Navigate around.

It could run locally. Except that everything else runs on a server, so it
would be nice if it were all in one place and accessible from anywhere on
the LAN, which is why it would be nice to run it as a browser plug in. Or
it could be web pages, except that I will have to learn how to write proper
web applications myself, and then its also already clear he is going to have
real trouble coming up to speed on that. Whereas I am almost sure he will
be able to put something together in Rev and will enjoy learning it.

People pick this stuff up very easily with Rev and don't even realize they
are learning programming. I spent an hour or so with him just using a
sample map, showed him how to put buttons on, how to make them do things,
how to make them vanish behind the map but still work. He took to it like a
duck to water, and he started immediately to think of all kinds of stuff he
could do that he had not thought of trying because he thought it would be
very complicated and difficult but now he could see that it wasn't at all.
Play bits of sound or movie clips, for instance, or contextual menus.

Its what the sadly defunct Media was perfect for, a sort of simple
multimedia authoring. Oh well. I guess it either has to be local, or we
have to find something else to do it in. Pity.
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Re: Rev as Linux Shell Script

2010-10-28 Thread Peter W A Wood

Bill 

On 28 Oct 2010, at 22:39, Bill Andersen wrote:

> I'm sorry this is so long winded.  I'm hoping it will help you understand my 
> motivation...
> 
> ... snip 
> 
> 
> I've read how to get the runtime working as a CGI and played around enough 
> that I 'can' (seemingly) make it work from a shell with the "#!revolution 
> -ui" declaration on the first line.  However, when I get to some of the 
> higher level features (FTP, ODBC, etc) I start getting errors.  I was 
> researching how to possibly resolve these issues (need libraries, etc) when I 
> found that Rev 3.5 is the last version to support the ability to run as a CGI.


I also am keen to use LiveCode to write "shell" programs and believe that it is 
possible by adopting a slightly different approach. I believe that if you build 
a "standalone" of your script, you can run the 'standalone" program with the 
-ui argument.

I performed a small test under Revolution 4.0. I created a new stack and added 
the following handler to the stack:

on startup
put "Hello Console"
quit
end startup

I created a standalone and then ran the executable from a shell console using 
the -ui option :

Rodney:MacOS peter$ ./CLTest -ui
Hello Console
Rodney:MacOS peter$ 

It's not much of a test but it did work. I would expect the technique to work 
just as well under Linux.

It would be even better if there was an option to build a GUI-less program when 
building a standalone in LiveCode though.

Regards

Peter


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revweb plug-in for linux

2010-10-28 Thread Peter Alcibiades

I have been to http://revweb.runrev.com/ and it says, as it has for some 
years now, that the Linux version is coming shortly.

Is it in fact coming?  And if so when? I'm asking because I need that kind 
of functionality one way or another in the next couple of months.

Peter
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Re: Bl**dy Laptop Keyboards

2010-10-27 Thread Peter W A Wood

Richmond

> Thanks, but what is a Fn button?

It's the bottom left key in the picture at 
http://gamoe.net/imagebank/NewMacBookKeyboard.jpg.

There are both return and enter keys on my MacBookPro.

Regards

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Re: Help please: can't get behavior script to work

2010-10-23 Thread Peter Brigham MD

Beware of mouseenter. In my experience, when the mouse is moving fast  
mouseenter sometimes doesn't get sent (this ought to be labeled as a  
bug). Mousemove is more reliable, though it will get called  
repeatedly. Unless you are doing something very complex on mousemove,  
however, it won't slow anything down.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Ian McKnight wrote:


Do you know I never really thought about using either mouseenter or
mousemove :)

As I was thinking about various ways to solve my problem it just  
seemed
'natural' to do something when the mouse was within the button area  
and I
fixed on that. I will alter my code to use mouseEnter because I like  
the
simplicity of the behavior not requiring any code in the buttons but  
I have

learned a useful tip about mouseWithin and mouseMove.

Thanks again.



On 23 October 2010 19:00, Peter Brigham MD  wrote:


On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:41 AM, André Bisseret wrote:



Le 23 oct. 10 à 16:29, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi Andre

It does help when you read the manual :) I did read it but I  
missed the

significance of the last line!

Anyway problem is solved all I need do is pass the mouseWithin  
message in

each button - not a great price to pay.



Ian,

Just curious, why do you prefer mouseWithin to mouseEnter or  
mouseMove?
(with one of these, you should not have to "pay any price" ;-)),  
should

you?



I always use mousemove for this kind of thing, for that exact  
reason -- no
mousemove is sent unless the object itself has a mousemove handler,  
which is
cumbersome if you want some generic behavior when the mouse is  
within any

button, for instance.


André


And thank you for your very quick reply.



On 23 October 2010 15:01, André Bisseret  


wrote:

Bonjour Ian,


I just tried the following
- created:
- a stack
- a group "grButton" of 3 buttons: Button1, Button2, Button3
- another group "grBtn" of 3 buttons: Btn1, Btn2, Btn3
- grouped the two groups in a super group "grGlobal"

- a button "BtnBehavior"
- a field "fldTarget"

- put the following handler in the script of "BtnBehavior":
on mouseWithin
put the short name of the target into fld "fldTarget"
end mouseWithin

Finally i set the behavior of grp "grGlobal" to the long id of btn
"btnBehavior" of this card.

Hoping that replicate your problem,
Well:
Does not work with mouseWithin

But that works with other messages: with mouseUp, with  
mouseDown, with

mouseMove, with mouseEnter

Seems that the explanation is the last line of the doc on  
"mouseWithin"

in
the Dictionary:

Note:  If there is no mouseWithinhandler in the target  
object'sscript,

no
mouseWithinmessage is sent, even if there is a  
mouseWithinhandler in an

object that's further along the message path.

HTH

Best regards from Grenoble

André

Le 23 oct. 10 à 13:19, Ian McKnight a écrit :


Hi


I have a number of buttons which are grouped together, and then  
this

group
is grouped with other similar groups to form a super-group. I  
have in

excess
of 300 buttons then that each represent a date. When I put the  
mouse

over
any one of the buttons I want to access an array and display the
relevant
information for that day in a separate field. I have a  
mouseWithin

handler
to access the data.

When the mouseWithin handler is in the script of the actual  
button all

works
as it should.

When I move the script to a separate button and set the  
behavior of my

original button to it - nothing happens. The Inspector shows the
behavior
location correctly.

There are no other mouseWithin handlers in the message path.

This is the line I used in the message box to set the behavior  
of the

first
of my buttons.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of cd  
"calendar" to

the
long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

I even tried referencing all the groups but still nothing  
happened.


set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of grp
"calendargrp"
of
cd "calendar" to the long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

This is the corresponding behavior entry from the Inspector

button id 1647 of stack "timeTable3"

which resolves to the button with my mousewithin script.

I can strip out the core of the script into a separate handler  
and

place
it
in the card script but I'd rather not replicate the remaining  
code 300+
times (even though it is only a dozen lines) if I can get  
behaviors to

work.


I'm using LiveCode 4.5 Bld 1080

Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks.


--
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmckni...@gmail.com
===





-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig <http://home.c

Re: Help please: can't get behavior script to work

2010-10-23 Thread Peter Brigham MD


On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:41 AM, André Bisseret wrote:



Le 23 oct. 10 à 16:29, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi Andre

It does help when you read the manual :) I did read it but I missed  
the

significance of the last line!

Anyway problem is solved all I need do is pass the mouseWithin  
message in

each button - not a great price to pay.


Ian,

Just curious, why do you prefer mouseWithin to mouseEnter or  
mouseMove?
(with one of these, you should not have to "pay any price" ;-)),  
should you?


I always use mousemove for this kind of thing, for that exact reason  
-- no mousemove is sent unless the object itself has a mousemove  
handler, which is cumbersome if you want some generic behavior when  
the mouse is within any button, for instance.



André


And thank you for your very quick reply.


On 23 October 2010 15:01, André Bisseret  
 wrote:



Bonjour Ian,

I just tried the following
- created:
- a stack
- a group "grButton" of 3 buttons: Button1, Button2, Button3
- another group "grBtn" of 3 buttons: Btn1, Btn2, Btn3
- grouped the two groups in a super group "grGlobal"

- a button "BtnBehavior"
- a field "fldTarget"

- put the following handler in the script of "BtnBehavior":
on mouseWithin
put the short name of the target into fld "fldTarget"
end mouseWithin

Finally i set the behavior of grp "grGlobal" to the long id of btn
"btnBehavior" of this card.

Hoping that replicate your problem,
Well:
Does not work with mouseWithin

But that works with other messages: with mouseUp, with mouseDown,  
with

mouseMove, with mouseEnter

Seems that the explanation is the last line of the doc on  
"mouseWithin" in

the Dictionary:

Note:  If there is no mouseWithinhandler in the target  
object'sscript, no
mouseWithinmessage is sent, even if there is a mouseWithinhandler  
in an

object that's further along the message path.

HTH

Best regards from Grenoble

André

Le 23 oct. 10 à 13:19, Ian McKnight a écrit :



Hi

I have a number of buttons which are grouped together, and then  
this group
is grouped with other similar groups to form a super-group. I  
have in

excess
of 300 buttons then that each represent a date. When I put the  
mouse over
any one of the buttons I want to access an array and display the  
relevant
information for that day in a separate field. I have a  
mouseWithin handler

to access the data.

When the mouseWithin handler is in the script of the actual  
button all

works
as it should.

When I move the script to a separate button and set the behavior  
of my
original button to it - nothing happens. The Inspector shows the  
behavior

location correctly.

There are no other mouseWithin handlers in the message path.

This is the line I used in the message box to set the behavior of  
the

first
of my buttons.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of cd  
"calendar" to

the
long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

I even tried referencing all the groups but still nothing happened.

set the behavior of btn "checkBx 0" of grp "sepGrp" of grp  
"calendargrp"

of
cd "calendar" to the long id of btn "behave" of cd "calendar"

This is the corresponding behavior entry from the Inspector

button id 1647 of stack "timeTable3"

which resolves to the button with my mousewithin script.

I can strip out the core of the script into a separate handler  
and place

it
in the card script but I'd rather not replicate the remaining  
code 300+
times (even though it is only a dozen lines) if I can get  
behaviors to

work.


I'm using LiveCode 4.5 Bld 1080

Can anyone suggest what I'm doing wrong?


Thanks.


--
Regards


Ian McKnight

iangmckni...@gmail.com
===



-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Keyboards

2010-10-23 Thread Peter Brigham MD

Presumably they wanted to have the pound sterling symbol more  
naturally available, so they swapped the sterling and the # mappings  
-- option-3 vs shift-3. It would have made more sense for them to have  
mapped the sterling symbol to shift-4, where the dollar sign is.


-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig




On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:36 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:



Well thanks to this thread at least I found out where the # key went  
on the
UK Mac keyboards, which maybe might come in handly one day.  Its  
surreal to
have it be alt + 3 unmarked.  How on earth are you supposed to know  
that?

I guess you have to read the Human Interface Guidelines?
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Re: [OT] Mac App Store

2010-10-23 Thread Peter Alcibiades


To most people, this has never had anything to do with OS choice or with
Apple's stock price.  It has to do with corporate conduct.  It has to do
with the following:-

1)  Do you want a society in which your access to applications and thus
increasingly to media is in the control of a few corporations who make the
platforms?  Or do you want a world in which you buy the platform, install
what you want from where you want, buy, read and watch and listen to what
you want from wherever you want?  Its the CD model versus the iTunes model.

2)  Do you as developer want to have one route to market, an App store run
by the device manufacturer, and have him able to eject your stuff instantly
on a whim?  And then let it back in again on a whim, who knows for how long?

The reason the debate now comes up with OSX has nothing to do with that OS
in particular, it is that people think, reasonably enough based on the track
record, that Apple is starting to move OSX to the iPod and iPad model.  They
don't trust it.  And they think it has serious societal implications.  Once
again, reasonably enough, given the track record.  These are the guys who
ban apps based on what you can, but do not have to, use them to download,
when the material you allegedly might download is perfectly legal in your
jurisdiction, but for some reason, the guys at Apple do not approve of it. 
They banned Matlab, for Heaven's sake!  A version of Ulysses!

Corporate control of what you can do with your computer or your ebook reader
or your tablet is a threat, probably in the West now emerging as the main
threat, to intellectual freedom.  This is not OS wars.  This is corporate
conduct wars.  The same or very similar points can be made about Amazon and
its ebook format and sales methods.

It is perfectly possible that being on the wrong side of that debate may be
very profitable for Apple and lead to rising share prices. I doubt it, I
think the probable effect of these efforts at control will be to promote
hacking and piracy.  But even were it a good route to rising profits and
stock prices, doesn't make it any righter.  And the problem is, Apple always
has been evil in this way, but it used not to matter because it was too
small for its example to matter.  Now it is getting bigger, its a real force
in society.  So you can no longer say, you don't like it don't buy it.  You
buy it or not, its influence is profound.
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Re: Keyboards


Well thanks to this thread at least I found out where the # key went on the
UK Mac keyboards, which maybe might come in handly one day.  Its surreal to
have it be alt + 3 unmarked.  How on earth are you supposed to know that?  
I guess you have to read the Human Interface Guidelines? 
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Re: Keyboards


I have to say, reluctantly, not being an admirer of Apple or its works, that
the latest keyboards, if that's the sort of thing you want, basically do not
have any competition.  I was using the aluminum usb full one, really came to
like it, apart from the irritating keycaps.  It is virtually silent, and my
initial worries about the angle and RSI turned out to be groundless.  

Then my partner's keyboard blew up (it was an old Apple one also), so I gave
her mine to try, and I could not get it back.  I then bought the compact
version for her for another office she works in, which is very nice too, it
has full sized keys and takes up minimal desk space.  I then bought a Cherry
Strait for myself, which is really terrible by comparison, much noisier, and
as I say the keycaps lose their legends after a very short time.  Most
disappointing.

The real irritation about the Apple keyboards is the keys.  Where, you ask
yourself is the # key?  The layout seems to be neither us nor uk but
something horrible in between, so if you are not using an Apple computer you
end up writing xmodmap files to get " and @ in the right places, and then
they do not correspond to what is on the keys.  Its the usual story,
difference and irritation for its own sake, in a nutshell, everything one
detests about Apple.  Which is why, despite its being a superior keyboard in
itself, I won't be buying another one to replace the Cherry.

But like I say, my partner is delighted with them.  Of course, she cannot
see the xmodmap files

I have bought the Logitech OEMs for people who do a lot of typing.
professional writers, who did not want to spend much money, and they seem to
work very well for them.  Solid, not too much effort, not too noisy, last
for ever.  They are probably the best value of the membrane type.  I think
if you are not going to spend the money and get a real specialist keyboard,
this is the one to go for.

I have bought the PCKeyboards one, basically an old IBM buckling spring
recreation, for one guy who is an ex typesetter and so as nostalgic for that
very positive action.  He loves it, but you can hear it in the next room. 
Professional typists of a certain age really like these.  They are not too
expensive either, but they are not for everyone.

But were I a Mac user (or a lady wanting minimal space on the desktop, a
nice keyboard feel, and an elegant look) I would definitely get the corded
aluminum one, either the extended or the basic.  I know I will never get
mine back.
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Re: Keyboards


The Apple corded full USB is very nice.  Far better than the Cherry Strait
which is a contender also, but the keycaps wear off.  Otherwise, Logitech
OEM is very good value and everyone really likes it.  Or the extreme
clickety clack made by PCKeyboards, which if they are into that sort of
thing, people also like a lot.
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Re: [OT] Mac App Store