Re: Beginners global variable pb
Switch master profiles based upon language chosen. set up properties for each language and fill things up from there. Benoit, Tom, et al. I believe the process described above is the one the designers of Revolution expect people to use to support multi-lingual applications. Note that, compared to the method I outlined for Graham, this approach requires that the text for all supported languages be stored in the application when it ships. This means that (a) the text for all languages is loaded in RAM with the standalone, (b) no languages except those supported in the original distribution build can be supported without rebuilding the application, and (c) creating a user-translatable application is much more difficult. -- Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee." from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
Excellent! This is a more systematic runtime method than I was
using, and I shall adopt it from now on.
Thanks Rob.
You are most welcome, Graham.
As an ignorant Yank who can only communicate in English--and a wee
bit of Svenska--my efforts to promote multi-lingual, user
translatable applications in Revolution is a small "Thank you" to
everyone who is forced to use my native language to communicate with
me. I am ALWAYS available to offer whatever help I can, here or
privately, to anyone developing multi-lingual Rev applications.
Of course, you still have to put your questions to me in English.:{`)
And let me take this opportunity to note that without the efforts of
my volunteer translators, Jose L. Rodriguez Illera, Terry Vogelaar,
Yves Coppe, and Klaus Major, Serendipity Library's multi-lingual
support would be just a theoretical concept instead of a demonstrable
reality.
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:45:14 -0700, Rob Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My approach is to load the entire text file into a library field when changing languages, and to load that text field into a library local variable when the library is put in use. Each one-line message in the file is referenced as a constant, eg: [detailed explanation] Excellent! This is a more systematic runtime method than I was using, and I shall adopt it from now on. Thanks Rob. Graham --- Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
My own preferred option is to go for a simplified manual approach
where every string that needs to be changed according to language is
set in one particular handler ('setUpParameters'), and I simply read
the Welsh (or whatever) text file into a text editor and paste each
line directly into the Transcript code, all in one concentrated
place in the app. This is crude but in fact works rather well.
Graham, et al:
My approach is to load the entire text file into a library field when
changing languages, and to load that text field into a library local
variable when the library is put in use.
Each one-line message in the file is referenced as a constant, eg:
constant sdbFileMenu=1
constant sdbEditMenu=2
constant sdbIOError=3
constant sdbQuitMenuItem=4
constant sdbOKTranslated=113
Scripts retrieve the messages via a function call: sdbMessage, along
the lines of
function sdbMessage(messageLineNumber)
local sdbMessages
return line messageLineNumber of sdbMessages
end sdbMessage
So my handlers look something like:
on preOpenStack
set the name of button 1 of group "Stack Menubar" to sdbMessage(sdbFileMenu)
set the text of button 1 of group "Stack Menubar" to
sdbMessage(sdbQuitMenuItem)
end preOpenStack
on menuPick thePick
put sdbMessage(sdbQuitMenuItem) into quitMe
switch thePick
case quitMe
quit
break
end switch
end menuPick
on displayError errorDetail
beep
answer error sdbMessage(sdbIOError)&&":"&&errorDetail with
sdbMessage(sdbOKTranslated)
exit to top
end display error
So handler text is never changed and the message is resolved AT
RUNTIME either when a new message file is loaded into the library or
at startup when necessary (eg: for standalones).
With the exception of the fact that each constant must be declared in
every script that references it, I find this approach effective &
straightforward.
AND, as I alluded to above, since no script changes need occur, your
application can be distributed in one version supporting any
(single-byte character) language without modificationincluding
languages not supported in the original distribution. Viola! your
application can be translated by any user with a text editor.
There are examples of this in virtually all components of Serendipity
Library .
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
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Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
In my earlier mail on this I wrote:
My own preferred option is to go for a simplified manual approach where
every string that needs to be changed according to language is set in one
particular handler ('setUpParameters'), and I simply read the Welsh (or
whatever) text file into a text editor and paste each line directly into
the Transcript code, all in one concentrated place in the app. This is
crude but in fact works rather well.
Of course this describes a method of changing the (human) language during
development, not at runtime. I should have said that this can be adapted to
a runtime method by the use of a text file and a slightly more disciplined
setUpParameters script which can be edited on the fly. It still seems to me
to be less labour-intensive in the long run than the Custom Props method.
Graham
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Multilingual apps (was: Re: Beginners global variable pb)
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:25:25 +0100, Leraillez Benoit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> The basic idea here is that, instead of having a hidden card, you
> have sets of custom properties for each card - one set for each
> language - to hold the correct text for that card.
Ok but if I need to change texts because my translations are incorrect or
if I add a new language, in a table I just add a column containing the texts
and the whole stack is translated with a new language or I just import a tab
separated new version and the errors are all corrected without having to go
thru every card and finding the field properties by hand. Am I right?
Yes, I think you have a point there. I agree that if one is to have texts
in other languages, chances are that there will be errors, and/or the whole
set of texts will have to be created by a non-programmer. A real example I
have is for an educational application written with English in mind having
to be used in a Welsh-speaking environment. I'm not a Welsh-speaker, so I
need to be able to give my list of original texts to an outside person as a
text file, and get back a line-by-line translation in Welsh. I then need a
rapid and tidy way of getting the Welsh text back into my application. IMHO
I could only get all this data into Custom Property sets either by placing
all the text strings by hand in many different objects and cards or by
writing a kind of special interpreter that would take the text file and
manipulate it appropriately according to the exact structure and use of all
the custom props; either option seems a convoluted way to go about things -
but YMMV. My own preferred option is to go for a simplified manual approach
where every string that needs to be changed according to language is set in
one particular handler ('setUpParameters'), and I simply read the Welsh (or
whatever) text file into a text editor and paste each line directly into
the Transcript code, all in one concentrated place in the app. This is
crude but in fact works rather well.
Just my 2 eurocents
Graham
---
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Re: Beginners global variable pb
I haven't used them but isn't this the case for using the property
profiles? I thought I read that in the docs?
Switch master profiles based upon language chosen. set up properties
for each language and fill things up from there.
TOm
On Feb 19, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Benoit Leraillez wrote:
Hi,
I'm a beginner with Revolution (used other things in the past for
interface dev) but decided to use it since it corresponds exactly to
what I
need for a cross-platform product prototype. My code maybe not the
finest or
the most elegant but it basically does what it is supposed to do up to
now ;-)
Now here is the problem I'm up to:
- The first card let's the user select the language interface for the
rest
of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card
to
the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't
found
a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card
displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global
variable
defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the
language
selection script).
Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't
understand
why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another
way to
do this?
(On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card
containing
a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's
content
since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably
import
and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.
First I've got to figure out how to "put content of cell
("LanguageChoice",3) of field "FullText" of card "Translation" into
field
"Headline"" but I think I'll try to figure that out on my own before
coming
here again ;-)
TIA for any help.
P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in
such
away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create
a new
card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste
hundreds
of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-)
--
Benoît Leraillez
Nous n'avons pas les moyens d'acheter bon marché.
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SCS
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Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Re: Beginners global variable pb
Le 19/02/04 22:35, « Jeanne A. E. DeVoto » <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit : > The basic idea here is that, instead of having a hidden card, you > have sets of custom properties for each card - one set for each > language - to hold the correct text for that card. Ok but if I need to change texts because my translations are incorrect or if I add a new language, in a table I just add a column containing the texts and the whole stack is translated with a new language or I just import a tab separated new version and the errors are all corrected without having to go thru every card and finding the field properties by hand. Am I right? -- Benoît Leraillez Bien des personnes aiment à dire qu'elles ont une prédilection pour des choses «profondes», or, je me demande si ces personnes ne commettent pas des erreurs en prenant pour «profondes» des choses qui sont creuses. (S. Guitry) ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Beginners global variable pb
Le 19/02/04 21:50, « Ken Ray » <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
> This is done through re-declaring the global in the script that wants to
> retrieve the value.
So a global variable is kind of global and the string naming it can be used
for something else. H, there may be good reasons for this, but when I
name something and declare it valid for a whole project I thought my job was
done ;-)
> Yes. What you do is put the image into a group (select the image and
> choose "Group Selected" from the Object menu). Then set the
> "backgroundBehavior" property of the group ("Behave like a background")
> to "true" (check the checkbox in the Properties palette for the group).
Thanks.
--
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La douleur des autres est tout à fait supportable, hors les cris.
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Re: Beginners global variable pb
Welcome to the revolution!
On 19/02/2004 18:33:27 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Hi,
>Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't understand
>why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another way
to
>do this?
Have you tried shared-fields? Otherwise you run a script that changes the
languages after changing the language.
>(On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card
containing
>a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's
content
>since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably
import
>and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.
>First I've got to figure out how to "put content of cell
>("LanguageChoice",3) of field "FullText" of card "Translation" into field
>"Headline"" but I think I'll try to figure that out on my own before
coming
>here again ;-)
It's near ready but not quite, I will release this weekend an API to
change
GUI languages with built-in extensible translation table to handle an any
number of languages (yes, including klingon!). Look for a discrete release
of my browser tonite or tomorow... The API includes a scanner to find your
controls and gives you the choice for each control to change the content,
tooltip and label of that control.
>P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such
>away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a
new
>card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste
hundreds
>of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-)
create a group, make it's background behavior true. Put hte image in it
and
THEN create your cards... Doesn't work for cards created earlier...
cheers
Xavier
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Beginners global variable pb
Hi,
I'm a beginner with Revolution (used other things in the past for
interface dev) but decided to use it since it corresponds exactly to what I
need for a cross-platform product prototype. My code maybe not the finest or
the most elegant but it basically does what it is supposed to do up to
now ;-)
Now here is the problem I'm up to:
- The first card let's the user select the language interface for the rest
of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card to
the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't found
a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card
displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global variable
defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the language
selection script).
Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't understand
why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another way to
do this?
(On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card containing
a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's content
since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably import
and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.
First I've got to figure out how to "put content of cell
("LanguageChoice",3) of field "FullText" of card "Translation" into field
"Headline"" but I think I'll try to figure that out on my own before coming
here again ;-)
TIA for any help.
P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such
away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a new
card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds
of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-)
--
Benoît Leraillez
Nous n'avons pas les moyens d'acheter bon marché.
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Re: Beginners global variable pb
If you import the image as control and group the control (all by itself) then set the property inspector to background beahvior, then on each new card created the image will be there. Also, if you have already created cards then you can 'place' the group via scripting or menu item. Tom On Feb 19, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Benoit Leraillez wrote: Hi, P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a new card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-) -- Benoît Leraillez Thomas J. McGrath III SCS 1000 Killarney Dr. Pittsburgh, PA 15234 412-885-8541 ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Beginners global variable pb
At 6:33 PM +0100 2/19/2004, Benoit Leraillez wrote: - The first card let's the user select the language interface for the rest of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card to the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't found a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global variable defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the language selection script). Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't understand why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another way to do this? Are you declaring the global variable wherever you need to use it? (A global needs to be declared in each handler where you access its value.) For example, if you store the language in a mouseUp handler in a button script, you can use the language anywhere - but you must declare the global: on openCard global languageChoice -- now it is accessible answer "The language is" && languageChoice -- shows previously-chosen language choice end openCard (On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card containing a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's content since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably import and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution. You might want to put the translation for each language into a custom property instead. (Take a look in the docs, in the topic "About custom properties and custom property sets", which you can find under "Values and Properties" when viewing all documentation by category. About halfway down there is a short translation example for exactly this situation.) The basic idea here is that, instead of having a hidden card, you have sets of custom properties for each card - one set for each language - to hold the correct text for that card. For example, suppose you have two fields - Title and Main. To store the French translation, you would create a custom property set named "French", and in that set, there would be two properties - one for the Title text, and one for the Main text. Similarly, for each other language, you would create a custom property set that contains two properties - so you could have sets named "English", "Spanish", etc. Then in a preOpenCard handler, you find the correct set for the current language, and put the text for that language into the two fields. Here is a quick example: on preOpenCard -- this handler goes in the stack script global languageChoice set the customPropertySet of this card to languageChoice -- switch sets -- this lets you access the custom properties in that set -- because the customPropertySet has been set to the language, the -- next two lines get the custom properties from that set. put the titleText of this card into field "Title" put the mainText of this card into field "Main" set the customPropertySet of this card to empty -- back to default set end preOpenCard (I hope this isn't too confusing. Some of these ideas - custom properties, custom property sets - may be new to you since you're a beginner. If you prefer you can ignore all this for now, and just keep it in mind for later. ;-) P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a new card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-) Certainly! To do this, you make the image into a shared group. (Groups usually contain more than one object, but you can create a group with one object too. This is useful when you want to share a single object among different cards, because groups can be shared in this way.) First create the image, then select it with the pointer tool and choose "Group Selected" from the Object menu. This makes the image into a group. If you want the group to appear automatically on all the new cards you create, set the group's backgroundBehavior property to true. You can either do this in the message box, or check the "Behave like a background" box in the group's property inspector window. -- jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.jaedworks.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Beginners global variable pb
Bon soir Benoit, at first a warm welcome to this list :-) Hi, I'm a beginner with Revolution (used other things in the past for interface dev) but decided to use it since it corresponds exactly to what I need for a cross-platform product prototype. My code maybe not the finest or the most elegant but it basically does what it is supposed to do up to now ;-) Now here is the problem I'm up to: - The first card let's the user select the language interface for the rest of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card to the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't found a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global variable defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the language selection script) TIA for any help. Check my website, see below, click X-Talk and download the file "CP_sets1"... This might get you started, and feel free to ask more questions here as they come up :-) P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a new card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-) You can simply group the image(s) you want as a "background", check "backgroundbehaviour" in the inspector and then you can place that group on any card you want. ONE (or more, and not only!) image(s) on MANY cards. Hope that helps... -- Bonne nuit :-) Regards Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.major-k.de ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Beginners global variable pb
> Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I
> don't understand why it doesn't apply to every card and
> field. Maybe there is another way to do this?
No, you have it right, but there's a second step that needs to be taken.
Once a global variable is defined and given a value, other scripts that
need to retrieve the value from the global need to make that global
accessible. This is done through re-declaring the global in the script
that wants to retrieve the value. Note also that the "global"
declaration can be either *inside* a handler, or *outside* a handler. If
it's *inside*, the access to the global is only for *that* handler (and
no others in the script, unless they too have declared the global in
their handlers). If it's *outside", it is accessible by all handlers in
that script. Note that if you try to use a global to which you don't
have access, Rev will think you're talking about an unquoted string and
will return the name of the variable instead (see the examples below).
For example, if in your stack script you had:
on openStack
global gMyGlobal
put "Hello" into gMyGlobal
end openStack
and then on some button on some card you wanted to get (or change) the
global gMyGlobal, you could do it in one of two ways (note I'm showing
two handlers in a button script to describe the difference between
declaring access to the global inside or outside of a handler):
1) Inside the handler:
on mouseUp
global gMyGlobal
put gMyGlobal --> puts "Hello" into the message box
DoMyCustomHandler
end mouseUp
on DoMyCustomHandler
answer gMyGlobal --> brings up an answer dialog with the word
"gMyGlobal" in it
-- This is because inside this handler, gMyGlobal is an unknown
variable and
-- Rev treats it as an unquoted string
end DoMyCustomHandler
2) Outside the handler:
global gMyGlobal
on mouseUp
put gMyGlobal --> puts "Hello" into the message box
DoMyCustomHandler
end mouseUp
on DoMyCustomHandler
answer gMyGlobal --> brings up an answer dialog with the word "Hello"
in it
end DoMyCustomHandler
I hope this is clear; if not, please let me know and I (or someone else
on this list) will clarify.
> P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image
> put in such away that it appears in every cards at the same
> place when you create a new card? And if you modify that
> image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds of times? It
> ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-)
Yes. What you do is put the image into a group (select the image and
choose "Group Selected" from the Object menu). Then set the
"backgroundBehavior" property of the group ("Behave like a background")
to "true" (check the checkbox in the Properties palette for the group).
If this is done on the last card of your stack, any subsequently created
cards will have that image on it. To apply it to cards you already have
created, go to a card that doesn't have it and choose "Place Group" from
the Object menu.
Hope this helps,
Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
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Beginners global variable pb
Hi,
I'm a beginner with Revolution (used other things in the past for
interface dev) but decided to use it since it corresponds exactly to what I
need for a cross-platform product prototype. My code maybe not the finest or
the most elegant but it basically does what it is supposed to do up to
now ;-)
Now here is the problem I'm up to:
- The first card let's the user select the language interface for the rest
of the stack. I know how to change on the fly the texts on that card to
the user's selection from the scrolling list field. But I haven't found
a way to store that selection so that every text field on every card
displays text in the correct language (LanguageChoice is a global variable
defined in the stack script in open stack and modified in the language
selection script).
Since I defined the variable as global up in the stack I don't understand
why it doesn't apply to every card and field. Maybe there is another way to
do this?
(On top of that the ideal for me would be to have a hidden card containing
a table where each column would be a language and each row a field's content
since I could then keep simpler code in the text fields and probably import
and export the translations to work on it elsewhere than in Revolution.
First I've got to figure out how to "put content of cell
("LanguageChoice",3) of field "FullText" of card "Translation" into field
"Headline"" but I think I'll try to figure that out on my own before coming
here again ;-)
TIA for any help.
P.S. Oh! Just one more thing, is there a way to have an image put in such
away that it appears in every cards at the same place when you create a new
card? And if you modify that image you don't have to copy and paste hundreds
of times? It ain't a priority but it would be cool ;-)
--
Benoît Leraillez
Nous n'avons pas les moyens d'acheter bon marché.
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