Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Klaus Major]

Hi Stephen (Bolton ? The singer with the big neck? :-)
Folks:
I'd like to embed an interactive Flash or QuickTime movie in a Rev
multimedia application. When a user clicks objects in the Flash or 
QuickTime
movie, I'd like the Rev app to show or hide information (and 
eventually do
much more).

How closely does Revolution integrate with Flash?
Well, no too much...
I understand that Flash
can only be rendered using QuickTime in Rev. Is this true?
Yes, and currently the only the version of Flash supported by QT is <=5!
If so, can Flash Actionscript actions still pass information to Rev?
If i remember right, Trevor implemented something like this into his 
wonderful
QTExternal:

http://www.mangomultimedia.com/developer/revolution/
If this is not the case,
See above...
can interactive QuickTime movies pass information to the Rev 
application?
Yes, but only the "qtdebugstr" (see the docs) message, which you can 
implement
with tools like LiveStagePro etc... into interactive QT movies...

Any help would be great.
Hope that helped :-)
Steve
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[jbv]

>
>
> > I understand that Flash
> > can only be rendered using QuickTime in Rev. Is this true?
>
> Yes, and currently the only the version of Flash supported by QT is <=5!

AFAIK there's always an offset of 1 between the current version of QT
and the supported version of Flash : QT5 used to support Flash <=4,
and QT6 seems to support Flash <=5 .

>
> > If so, can Flash Actionscript actions still pass information to Rev?
>

according to my own experience (even in very recent projects I've completed

only a couple of weeks ago), it's wiser (and much easier) to build all your

animations within Rev, instead of trying to have Flash files imported in a
player control, have them handled by QT, and then try to make your Rev
scripts interact with actionscript.
I guess (hope ?) several list members will aprove me if I say that almost
everything that can be done in Flash can be reproduced in Rev.
Timing can be a bit critical at times, but using
"send my_message to my_object in 0.42 seconds" might solve almost
every problem. As for graphics, as repeated dozens of times on this list,
the lack of an antialiased vector graphics tool in Rev is terrible.
IMHO that makes the big difference between Rev and Flash.
Last but not least, if using transparencies with settings changing over
time, make sure you have a good graphic board with enough RAM,
otherwise the result might be incredibly slow...

JB

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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Trevor DeVore]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 5:59 AM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
Folks:
I'd like to embed an interactive Flash or QuickTime movie in a Rev
multimedia application. When a user clicks objects in the Flash or 
QuickTime
movie, I'd like the Rev app to show or hide information (and 
eventually do
much more).

How closely does Revolution integrate with Flash? I understand that 
Flash
can only be rendered using QuickTime in Rev. Is this true? If so, can 
Flash
Actionscript actions still pass information to Rev?
Using the current EnhancedQT external that Klaus mentioned you can 
process the FSCommand message sent from Flash movies.  So any FSCommand 
ActionScript in your SWF will send a message to Rev.  In the upcoming 
1.0 version of the EnhancedQT external you can also set Flash 
variables, get Flash variables click on Flash buttons and go to frames 
in the Flash movie.  I hope to have a beta of this up sometime next 
week but we will see how things go.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Klaus Major]

Hi JB,
I understand that Flash
can only be rendered using QuickTime in Rev. Is this true?
Yes, and currently the only the version of Flash supported by QT is 
<=5!
AFAIK there's always an offset of 1 between the current version of QT
and the supported version of Flash : QT5 used to support Flash <=4,
and QT6 seems to support Flash <=5 .

If so, can Flash Actionscript actions still pass information to Rev?

according to my own experience (even in very recent projects I've 
completed

only a couple of weeks ago), it's wiser (and much easier) to build all 
your

animations within Rev, instead of trying to have Flash files imported 
in a
player control, have them handled by QT, and then try to make your Rev
scripts interact with actionscript.
I guess (hope ?) several list members will aprove me if I say that 
almost
everything that can be done in Flash can be reproduced in Rev.
EXCEPT anti-aliased graphics ;-)
(Jaggies are ugly and might still scare most Flash-users!)
But yes, in general :-)
Timing can be a bit critical at times, but using
"send my_message to my_object in 0.42 seconds" might solve almost
every problem. As for graphics, as repeated dozens of times on this 
list,
the lack of an antialiased vector graphics tool in Rev is terrible.
IMHO that makes the big difference between Rev and Flash.
Last but not least, if using transparencies with settings changing over
time, make sure you have a good graphic board with enough RAM,
otherwise the result might be incredibly slow...

JB
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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RE: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton)]

Trevor, JB, Klaus:

Thanks for your input. In this same vein, as a complete newbie, would anyone
consider the following possible with Rev:

A 3D wireframe graphic of a machine. The user could zoom into different
parts of the machine. The user could rotate the machine 360 degrees. The
user could add and remove machine parts to the graphic by clicking a list of
parts. The user could click on parts of the machine and detailed information
would appear in a field.

>From the information you've given me so far, I don't think the zooming will
be possible because there is no vector graphic support.

Are there any examples of this type of interactivity?

P.S. (Bolton) is assigned by the company server, telling people which city
I'm in so that customers know where I am. Definitely not the singer.

-Original Message-
From: Trevor DeVore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:20 AM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution


On Sep 16, 2004, at 5:59 AM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:

> Folks:
>
> I'd like to embed an interactive Flash or QuickTime movie in a Rev
> multimedia application. When a user clicks objects in the Flash or 
> QuickTime
> movie, I'd like the Rev app to show or hide information (and 
> eventually do
> much more).
>
> How closely does Revolution integrate with Flash? I understand that 
> Flash
> can only be rendered using QuickTime in Rev. Is this true? If so, can 
> Flash
> Actionscript actions still pass information to Rev?

Using the current EnhancedQT external that Klaus mentioned you can 
process the FSCommand message sent from Flash movies.  So any FSCommand 
ActionScript in your SWF will send a message to Rev.  In the upcoming 
1.0 version of the EnhancedQT external you can also set Flash 
variables, get Flash variables click on Flash buttons and go to frames 
in the Flash movie.  I hope to have a beta of this up sometime next 
week but we will see how things go.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:

> as a complete newbie, would anyone
> consider the following possible with Rev:
> 
> A 3D wireframe graphic of a machine. The user could zoom into different
> parts of the machine. The user could rotate the machine 360 degrees. The
> user could add and remove machine parts to the graphic by clicking a list of
> parts. The user could click on parts of the machine and detailed information
> would appear in a field.
> 
> From the information you've given me so far, I don't think the zooming will
> be possible because there is no vector graphic support.
> 
> Are there any examples of this type of interactivity?

The above is possible do without Flash if:

1) you can live with aliased (non-smooth) lines

2) you have the ability to generate the vector frames yourself

You can view an example using our panel stack by entering the following in
your message box:

  go url "http://www.tactilemedia.com/tmpanel.rev";

See the example called "Tutti 3D" (228k).  An explanation is provided in the
stack.

(BTW, many months ago, some kind soul on the list sent me a file that
demonstrates communication between Flash and Rev using sockets.  For the
life of me, I can't find the sample nor do I recall the person who sent the
example so if this person is reading now, perhaps you can step out of the
shadows and reveal yourself? :-)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Troy Rollins]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 11:17 AM, jbv wrote:
I guess (hope ?) several list members will aprove me if I say that 
almost
everything that can be done in Flash can be reproduced in Rev.
With regard to scripting perhaps. Graphically, they couldn't be more 
different... and then the fact that Flash scripting is aimed at 
controlling its graphics.

But, I'd have to agree I guess in the same way that almost anything 
which can be done a with a pool cue can be done with a tire iron.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[jbv]

Stephen,

if this is the kind of project you're after, then simply
drop Flash and use openGL instead.
openGL will allow you to work with full rendering of
realtime interactive 3D graphics, and not only wireframe
(which is a rather poor viszualisation technique in terms of
ergonomics).

JB


> Trevor, JB, Klaus:
>
> Thanks for your input. In this same vein, as a complete newbie, would anyone
> consider the following possible with Rev:
>
> A 3D wireframe graphic of a machine. The user could zoom into different
> parts of the machine. The user could rotate the machine 360 degrees. The
> user could add and remove machine parts to the graphic by clicking a list of
> parts. The user could click on parts of the machine and detailed information
> would appear in a field.
>
> >From the information you've given me so far, I don't think the zooming will
> be possible because there is no vector graphic support.
>
> Are there any examples of this type of interactivity?
>
> P.S. (Bolton) is assigned by the company server, telling people which city
> I'm in so that customers know where I am. Definitely not the singer.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Trevor DeVore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:20 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution
>
> On Sep 16, 2004, at 5:59 AM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
>
> > Folks:
> >
> > I'd like to embed an interactive Flash or QuickTime movie in a Rev
> > multimedia application. When a user clicks objects in the Flash or
> > QuickTime
> > movie, I'd like the Rev app to show or hide information (and
> > eventually do
> > much more).
> >
> > How closely does Revolution integrate with Flash? I understand that
> > Flash
> > can only be rendered using QuickTime in Rev. Is this true? If so, can
> > Flash
> > Actionscript actions still pass information to Rev?
>
> Using the current EnhancedQT external that Klaus mentioned you can
> process the FSCommand message sent from Flash movies.  So any FSCommand
> ActionScript in your SWF will send a message to Rev.  In the upcoming
> 1.0 version of the EnhancedQT external you can also set Flash
> variables, get Flash variables click on Flash buttons and go to frames
> in the Flash movie.  I hope to have a beta of this up sometime next
> week but we will see how things go.
>
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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RE: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton)]

Sounds great. Some more questions:

I've got a lot of Flash (with some limited actionscript) and HTML experience
but little in the way of actual programming experience. Will an OpenGL
project be possible for someone willing to learn but starting at a very low
base (and on a 6 month deadline for at least the prototype). I learn quickly
enough and have access to a Director expert.

Will the OpenGL product run OK on Windows? The audience is Windows users and
we will be developing in a dual Mac/Windows environment.

Does OpenGL play nice with Rev?

Sorry for all the questions. To be honest, we're just evaluating Rev. We are
seriously considering iShell but I think Rev may be better for this task.
The main problem is that this project integrates XML, databases, multiple
languages, and interactive graphics. I haven't found a tool that does all
this gracefully and think Rev or iShell may be the closest I'll get.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: jbv [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:16 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution


Stephen,

if this is the kind of project you're after, then simply
drop Flash and use openGL instead.
openGL will allow you to work with full rendering of
realtime interactive 3D graphics, and not only wireframe
(which is a rather poor viszualisation technique in terms of
ergonomics).

JB


> Trevor, JB, Klaus:
>
> Thanks for your input. In this same vein, as a complete newbie, would
anyone
> consider the following possible with Rev:
>
> A 3D wireframe graphic of a machine. The user could zoom into different
> parts of the machine. The user could rotate the machine 360 degrees. The
> user could add and remove machine parts to the graphic by clicking a list
of
> parts. The user could click on parts of the machine and detailed
information
> would appear in a field.
>
> >From the information you've given me so far, I don't think the zooming
will
> be possible because there is no vector graphic support.
>
> Are there any examples of this type of interactivity?
>
> P.S. (Bolton) is assigned by the company server, telling people which city
> I'm in so that customers know where I am. Definitely not the singer.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Trevor DeVore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:20 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution
>
> On Sep 16, 2004, at 5:59 AM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
>
> > Folks:
> >
> > I'd like to embed an interactive Flash or QuickTime movie in a Rev
> > multimedia application. When a user clicks objects in the Flash or
> > QuickTime
> > movie, I'd like the Rev app to show or hide information (and
> > eventually do
> > much more).
> >
> > How closely does Revolution integrate with Flash? I understand that
> > Flash
> > can only be rendered using QuickTime in Rev. Is this true? If so, can
> > Flash
> > Actionscript actions still pass information to Rev?
>
> Using the current EnhancedQT external that Klaus mentioned you can
> process the FSCommand message sent from Flash movies.  So any FSCommand
> ActionScript in your SWF will send a message to Rev.  In the upcoming
> 1.0 version of the EnhancedQT external you can also set Flash
> variables, get Flash variables click on Flash buttons and go to frames
> in the Flash movie.  I hope to have a beta of this up sometime next
> week but we will see how things go.
>
> --
> Trevor DeVore
> Blue Mango Multimedia
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Trevor DeVore]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 9:00 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:
(BTW, many months ago, some kind soul on the list sent me a file that
demonstrates communication between Flash and Rev using sockets.  For 
the
life of me, I can't find the sample nor do I recall the person who 
sent the
example so if this person is reading now, perhaps you can step out of 
the
shadows and reveal yourself? :-)
It wasn't me who posted originally but I did play around with the 
concept after reading that post.  This is the code I have in the 
concept stack I made based on the post.  If I remember correctly I was 
using this with the Flash XML object using sockets.

=
== BUTTON SCRIPT WHICH OPENS THE SOCKET FOR XML COMMUNICATION WITH FLASH
== NAMED "startXML"
=
on mouseUp
  put empty into fld "results"
  accept connections on port 7979 with message "wFlashSocket"
end mouseUp
on wFlashSocket pSocket
  # Store socket for further use
  set the uFlashSocket of me to pSocket
  put "request received"
  set itemDelimiter to "$"
  set socketTimeoutInterval to 100
  read from socket pSocket for 1 line
  put item 2 of it & pSocket into field "results"
  write "hi" & return & null to socket pSocket
end wFlashSocket
=
== BUTTON SCRIPT THAT SENDS A MESSAGE TO FLASH THROUGH AN OPEN SOCKET
=
on mouseUp
  write "Hi Flash" & null to socket the uFlashSocket 
of button "startXML"
end mouseUp

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Klaus Major]

Hi Stephen,
Sounds great. Some more questions:
I've got a lot of Flash (with some limited actionscript) and HTML 
experience
but little in the way of actual programming experience. Will an OpenGL
project be possible for someone willing to learn but starting at a 
very low
base (and on a 6 month deadline for at least the prototype). I learn 
quickly
enough and have access to a Director expert.

Will the OpenGL product run OK on Windows? The audience is Windows 
users and
we will be developing in a dual Mac/Windows environment.

Does OpenGL play nice with Rev?
Sorry for all the questions. To be honest, we're just evaluating Rev. 
We are
seriously considering iShell but I think Rev may be better for this 
task.
The main problem is that this project integrates XML, databases, 
multiple
languages, and interactive graphics. I haven't found a tool that does 
all
this gracefully and think Rev or iShell may be the closest I'll get.
Sorry, but here are the bad news:
OpenGL is not natively supported in REV.
There are no official OpenGL-externals in the moment.
Or did i miss something important?
Mr. Bill? ;-)
Steve
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Trevor DeVore]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 8:48 AM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
Trevor, JB, Klaus:
Thanks for your input. In this same vein, as a complete newbie, would 
anyone
consider the following possible with Rev:

A 3D wireframe graphic of a machine. The user could zoom into different
parts of the machine. The user could rotate the machine 360 degrees. 
The
user could add and remove machine parts to the graphic by clicking a 
list of
parts. The user could click on parts of the machine and detailed 
information
would appear in a field.

From the information you've given me so far, I don't think the 
zooming will
be possible because there is no vector graphic support.
Are there any examples of this type of interactivity?
If you can require QT in your projects then you can use the Axel 
Component to do this .  LiveStage 
Pro allows you to control the Axel 3D models by sending commands to the 
Axel model to turn on/off elements, start animations, etc.  We used 
this component to interact with 3D models of a fetus showing how an 
ultrasound machine acquires 3 dimensional scans of the fetus.  We were 
able to use one model (which was very small in regards to file size) in 
many different ways since we could turn elements on or off depending on 
what we wanted to teach the user.  You would have to use the EnhancedQT 
external to handle the interaction though.  Worked great.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Troy Rollins]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 12:26 PM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
Does OpenGL play nice with Rev?
There is currently no such animal, though there are a couple of 
potential workarounds.

Sorry for all the questions. To be honest, we're just evaluating Rev. 
We are
seriously considering iShell but I think Rev may be better for this 
task.
The main problem is that this project integrates XML, databases, 
multiple
languages, and interactive graphics. I haven't found a tool that does 
all
this gracefully and think Rev or iShell may be the closest I'll get.
Have you asked your Director expert how they feel about a project which 
includes these things and OpenGL-based 3D?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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RE: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton)]

They want this to happen. It has to integrate these elements (multilanguage,
searchable database of parts and options with output based on user search
strings, text stored as XML and displayed with styles) and it has to "pop"
(look fancy). Again, we're still exploring what is possible. Eye candy can
be jettisoned if need be. Static images as opposed to rotating/zooming ones
can be substituted if necessary.

Hence the start of this thread. It sounds like we may have to drop some of
the more ambitious graphic ideas.

-Original Message-
From: Troy Rollins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:10 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution


>>Have you asked your Director expert how they feel about a project which 
includes these things and OpenGL-based 3D?
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Trevor DeVore  wrote:

>> (BTW, many months ago, some kind soul on the list sent me a file that
>> demonstrates communication between Flash and Rev using sockets.  For
>> the
>> life of me, I can't find the sample nor do I recall the person who
>> sent the
>> example so if this person is reading now, perhaps you can step out of
>> the
>> shadows and reveal yourself? :-)
> 
> It wasn't me who posted originally but I did play around with the
> concept after reading that post.  This is the code I have in the
> concept stack I made based on the post.  If I remember correctly I was
> using this with the Flash XML object using sockets.

Cool Trevor.  You inspired me to look a little deeper in my archives and I
finally found the example, from Gary Rathbone.  Looks a bit similar:



When I click on a button in Flash I get a "HelloRev" message in my Rev
stack. Rev then returns a "HelloFlash" message. So the two can talk to each
other and pass parameters for parsing and other actions. When I said I was
no Flash expert I actually meant I'd never used the program, so I'm sure
there's much more on the Flash side that can be done rather that just
displaying the Rev response in a browser.

In Flash I created a button with the following script...

---
on (press) {
getURL("http://127.0.0.1:8181/$HelloRev$";, "_blank");
}
---

I then created a stack with a single button 'Start' and a field 'tfld'. The
'Start' button has the following script. This is very similar to the
Javascript/WebForm/Browser 'integrator' stack previously published.

---
on mouseup
  put "" into fld "tfld"
  get the OpenSockets
  repeat with c=1 to the number of lines in it
close socket (line c of it)
  end repeat
  accept connections on port 8181 with message "wRequest"
end mouseup

on wRequest skt
  set the itemdel to "$"
  set the socketTimeoutInterval to 2
  read from socket skt for 1 line
  put item 2 of it into fld "tfld"
  write "HelloFlash" to socket skt
  close socket skt
end wRequest
---

So, Rev is 'listening' for a request on port 8181 of IP 127.0.0.1 (which is
the local machine - you don't need to change this IP address as every (?)
computer uses this IP address as its own reference - the loopback IP). When
the Flash button is pressed it sends a request to the Rev stack which parses
the parameter and puts the result into the field. Rev then returns a string
which currently appears in a browser window, but I'm sure someone more
competant in flash could do more with this...

Hope this helps.

Regards

Gary Rathbone



Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[jbv]

Stephen,

>
> Hence the start of this thread. It sounds like we may have to drop some of
> the more ambitious graphic ideas.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER drop any ambitious idea, especially
graphic ones, and especially realtime 3D !!!

Scott, Trevor,

> It wasn't me who posted originally but I did play around with the
> concept after reading that post.  This is the code I have in the
> concept stack I made based on the post.  If I remember correctly I was
> using this with the Flash XML object using sockets.

I just can't believe you can even think of opening sockets between
Flash & Rev to display 3D graphics...

openGL + Rev IS the way to go. openGL runs on any platform, just
like Rev. Of course, there's no openGL external. But as discussed
previously on this list, the idea of an openGL external is a dead end.
I've spent weeks trying to build one, and the only thing I came to
was headaches.
The solution is much simpler : it consists of a simple & straightforward
interface between Rev & openGL. openGL renders in a buffer, so the
trick is to grab the content of that buffer and display it inside an image
control in Rev. I did that almost 2 years ago, after checking the C code
for the external (that was MC 2.4.1 back then, but I think the updated
external code for Rev is basically the same). That code needs only some
very minor tuning to achieve this.
Then hire the service of a C programer with 3D / openGL knowledge,
and there you go. Furthermore, there is a huge amount of openGL
tutorials and source code freely available online so you can hope to
teach yourself...

JB

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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Troy Rollins]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 1:33 PM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
They want this to happen. It has to integrate these elements 
(multilanguage,
searchable database of parts and options with output based on user 
search
strings, text stored as XML and displayed with styles) and it has to 
"pop"
(look fancy). Again, we're still exploring what is possible. Eye candy 
can
be jettisoned if need be. Static images as opposed to rotating/zooming 
ones
can be substituted if necessary.
My point being that Director does all these things now, without 
compromise. I like Rev a lot, but using the right tool for a project 
design is more important to me than blind loyalty.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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RE: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton)]

Troy:

According to our Director guru, Director has some limitations regarding
Unicode and multilingual support. He can get it to work but only after
jumping through some serious hoops. Reliably displaying 22 different
languages (with styling) is the lynchpin of the entire project.

Theoretically, Director may be able to do 90% of what we want. If Rev can
deliver 95% that's better. Even using something like altBrowser may solve
some of the major problems.

Which is part of the reason I'm being such a pain on the list (sorry). Can
we do better than Director for something like this? Hopefully. I'm supposed
to find out.

I'm certain that there are good reasons why Director may not be the best for
this project but I'm a Flash guy so can't really say what they are.

I'll meet with the guru tomorrow and nail down exactly where Director is
falling short.

Thanks!

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Troy Rollins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:56 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution



On Sep 16, 2004, at 1:33 PM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:

> They want this to happen. It has to integrate these elements 
> (multilanguage,
> searchable database of parts and options with output based on user 
> search
> strings, text stored as XML and displayed with styles) and it has to 
> "pop"
> (look fancy). Again, we're still exploring what is possible. Eye candy 
> can
> be jettisoned if need be. Static images as opposed to rotating/zooming 
> ones
> can be substituted if necessary.

My point being that Director does all these things now, without 
compromise. I like Rev a lot, but using the right tool for a project 
design is more important to me than blind loyalty.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Trevor DeVore]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 10:49 AM, jbv wrote:
Scott, Trevor,
It wasn't me who posted originally but I did play around with the
concept after reading that post.  This is the code I have in the
concept stack I made based on the post.  If I remember correctly I was
using this with the Flash XML object using sockets.
I just can't believe you can even think of opening sockets between
Flash & Rev to display 3D graphics...
Umm, I didn't think of doing it for that reason.  I was just addressing 
the issue of communicating between Flash and Rev using sockets.  I use 
QuickTime to display 3D graphics right now so displaying 3D graphics in 
Flash doesn't interest me.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Troy Rollins]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 2:14 PM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
I'm certain that there are good reasons why Director may not be the 
best for
this project but I'm a Flash guy so can't really say what they are.
Then you must know that generally Flash is what is used to give 
Director ease of handling Unicode. Since Director support the most 
current version of Flash natively, as well as OpenGL, and XML...

Ah, I'll shut up. I never stay in the good graces of this list when I 
imply the Revolution is not always the right tool for all types of 
applications.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Trevor DeVore]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 11:18 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:
Ah, I'll shut up. I never stay in the good graces of this list when I 
imply the Revolution is not always the right tool for all types of 
applications.
There is nothing wrong with saying that since it is true.  But if 
someone comes to a development tool list and asks if something can be 
done in that development tool then naturally people will share how you 
would accomplish the task in that environment.  Whether or not it is 
the right tool for the job will depend on all the information gathered 
about each development environment.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Klaus Major]

Hi Troy,
On Sep 16, 2004, at 2:14 PM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
I'm certain that there are good reasons why Director may not be the 
best for
this project but I'm a Flash guy so can't really say what they are.
Then you must know that generally Flash is what is used to give 
Director ease of handling Unicode. Since Director support the most 
current version of Flash natively, as well as OpenGL, and XML...

Ah, I'll shut up. I never stay in the good graces of this list when I 
imply the Revolution is not always the right tool for all types of 
applications.
LOL :-D
A VERY good one! ;-)
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net
Best
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[jbv]

Troy,

> On Sep 16, 2004, at 2:14 PM, Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton) wrote:
>
> > I'm certain that there are good reasons why Director may not be the
> > best for
> > this project but I'm a Flash guy so can't really say what they are.
>
> Then you must know that generally Flash is what is used to give
> Director ease of handling Unicode. Since Director support the most
> current version of Flash natively, as well as OpenGL, and XML...
>
> Ah, I'll shut up. I never stay in the good graces of this list when I
> imply the Revolution is not always the right tool for all types of
> applications.
> --

sorry to disagree, but IMHO the way Director supports openGL
is a bad joke. As long as ppl's conception of 3D is limited to
rotating logos with ready-made textures, that's OK. But I'd
rather call that 2.5D...
It reminds me the app called ShowPlace that Pixar released in the
early 90's for ppl interested in MacRenderMan, but didn't have
the time or skill to do real Renderman shader development...
The sad part of the story is that that kind of lazy implementation
of openGL spreads a poor conception of what interactive 3D
can be... IMHO this is even more true these days, with the
release of openGL 2.0...
The difference is somehow like making your own furniture
vs buying some stuff at Ikea...

JB

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RE: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton)]

Troy:

>Then you must know that generally Flash is what is used to give 
Director ease of handling Unicode. Since Director support the most 
current version of Flash natively, as well as OpenGL, and XML...

Exactly right. But while Flash will display XML and Unicode docs,
manipulating large swaths of styled text (including tables, graphics, and
captions) is not possible (as far as I know). It's easy enough to bring in
plain text with some minor style tweaks but the whole nine-yards using XSLT
transformations is out of the question (again, as far as I know).

So what's shaping up to be the only possible solution that will work
effectively, support Unicode, hook in to the operating system, look good,
and include all the database integration and search gadgets we need is a web
page embedded in Rev, Director, or iShell. The underlying browser engine
will handle the transformations and Flash while the app will hook into the
operating system and perform a great deal of the legwork.

Which opens up a whole other can of worms because the standard browser on
Windows (IE 5 or 5.5) uses a non-valid XSLT renderer which throws a wrench
in the works because we want to work with proper XML and a valid DTD.

I think this may have wandered a little too far off-topic but you can see
the frustration I'm having with this project. My ideal solution is a single
app that handles all animation, language support, XML search, database
search, XSLT transformations, and interactivity without relying on an
embedded browser or special plug-ins. High hopes, I know.

Thanks for all your input so far. More tomorrow.

Steve
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[James . Cass]

"If the only tool you have is a hammer,
pretty soon everything looks like a nail."

Rev is awesome, but It's healthy to have more than one tool.

-James






Trevor DeVore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
09/16/04 02:23 PM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
    Subject:    Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution


On Sep 16, 2004, at 11:18 AM, Troy Rollins wrote:
>
> Ah, I'll shut up. I never stay in the good graces of this list when I
> imply the Revolution is not always the right tool for all types of
> applications.

There is nothing wrong with saying that since it is true.  But if
someone comes to a development tool list and asks if something can be
done in that development tool then naturally people will share how you
would accomplish the task in that environment.  Whether or not it is
the right tool for the job will depend on all the information gathered
about each development environment.


--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Troy Rollins]

On Sep 16, 2004, at 2:52 PM, jbv wrote:
sorry to disagree, but IMHO the way Director supports openGL
is a bad joke. As long as ppl's conception of 3D is limited to
rotating logos with ready-made textures, that's OK. But I'd
rather call that 2.5D...
??
I have to suspect that you have no idea what you are talking about. 
Rotating logos? Ready-made textures? 2.5D? What the heck have you been 
looking at?
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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RE: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Tony Bray]

Stephen
From the description of your requirements I would recommend that you 
look very closely at Director.
Director will do all of the things that you have specified.
If you know the Rev Transcript langauge then you will find Directors 
verbose syntax (as against the "newer" dot syntax) to be very similar. 
If you know ActionScript then you will find that Director has Java as 
an option. Director and Flash communicate with each other extremely 
well.
The main problem is that this project integrates XML, databases, 
multiple
languages, and interactive graphics. I haven't found a tool that does 
all
this gracefully and think Rev or iShell may be the closest I'll get.
Director does all of these. In my opionion Director is better than 
iShell.
Director is also cross-platform (Windoze and Mac -- no UNIX) and you 
can create standalone applications for both OS from the same source 
(similar to Rev)

Just my $0.05 --  we don't have 2 cent coins in NZ ;-)
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Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Wolfgang M . Bereuter]

On 16.09.2004, at 20:18, Troy Rollins wrote:
Ah, I'll shut up. I never stay in the good graces of this list when I 
imply the Revolution is not always the right tool for all types of 
applications.
thanks for that Troy, we need your different point of view...;)
To RR
I asked some years ago and again and again for a better nativ Flash 
support: Rethink about it again, pls!!

To Stephen
from me as a non programmer, whch does not understand well the problem, 
but sometimes annother point of view can help.
Check Anark Studio. creativemac say "Anark Studio is the fusion of 
Flash, LightWave and After Effects into a pretty unique animation and 
authoring tool, that can output very high quality 3D "

review: http://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=24277
If it does not all what you need. You can export from it to QT and do 
"the rest" with QT in rev.

hope that helps
regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Trainingsmaps© -- speedlearning Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539
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RE: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution

[Van Esch, Stephen (Bolton)]

Thanks Wolfgang! I'll take a look.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Wolfgang M.Bereuter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:07 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Flash/QuickTime interaction with Revolution



On 16.09.2004, at 20:18, Troy Rollins wrote:

> Ah, I'll shut up. I never stay in the good graces of this list when I 
> imply the Revolution is not always the right tool for all types of 
> applications.
thanks for that Troy, we need your different point of view...;)

To RR
I asked some years ago and again and again for a better nativ Flash 
support: Rethink about it again, pls!!

To Stephen
from me as a non programmer, whch does not understand well the problem, 
but sometimes annother point of view can help.
Check Anark Studio. creativemac say "Anark Studio is the fusion of 
Flash, LightWave and After Effects into a pretty unique animation and 
authoring tool, that can output very high quality 3D "

review: http://www.creativemac.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=24277

If it does not all what you need. You can export from it to QT and do 
"the rest" with QT in rev.

hope that helps

regards
Wolfgang M. Bereuter

Trainingsmaps© -- speedlearning Mindmaps!
INTERNETTRAINER Wolfgang M. Bereuter
Edelhofg. 17/11, A-1180 Wien, Austria
...
http://www.internettrainer.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Tel: ++43/1/ 961 0418 Fax: ++43/1/ 479 2539

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