Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On 07/19/2010 12:35 AM, Björnke von Gierke wrote: Sorry, I didn't see this topic until today. I use the filter command on a list to find the search terms. So what you need is to search for *player (asterix at the start). Most of the time I am looking for a specific terms syntax. So normally I do not want all ocurence of player anywhere, bu know that I want the player object's entry (for example). That is why I made it this way. have fun Bjoernke Thanks for the help. Richmond. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On 07/18/2010 11:12 PM, François Chaplais wrote: Perhaps you you could try my docu stacks, which are atop BVG docu. they are currently on RevOnline: search for chaplais in the category Development. The initialization stack fills the target stack with dictionary entries. Then you can save the new myDict stack. You can, for instance, look for player in the name field or: in the name *or* summary field or: in the name or summary or description field. the PDF doc can be generated from a button on the initialization stack. You will find more explanations here. best François Le 17 juil. 2010 à 15:12, Richmond a écrit : This is super! Thank you very much indeed. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Perhaps you you could try my docu stacks, which are atop BVG docu. they are currently on RevOnline: search for chaplais in the category Development. The initialization stack fills the target stack with dictionary entries. Then you can save the new myDict stack. You can, for instance, look for player in the name field or: in the name *or* summary field or: in the name or summary or description field. the PDF doc can be generated from a button on the initialization stack. You will find more explanations here. best François Le 17 juil. 2010 à 15:12, Richmond a écrit : On 07/16/2010 04:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Richmond wrote: The other one that gets a bit much is that the Dictionary is glacially slow. Have you tried Björnke's BvG Docu?: http://bjoernke.com/?target=bvgdocu It works similarly to MC's, and is much more responsive than Rev's. It would be helpful to get your feedback on comparative performance. I have used it intermittently on Mac; my only criticism being that search terms are too strict. Just tried it on Linux and it works right speedily' significantly better than the standard dox. Too strict searched for 'player' in the standard dox, and get: player, player, vcplayer, videoClipPlayer + in BvG Docu get only player player. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Sorry, I didn't see this topic until today. I use the filter command on a list to find the search terms. So what you need is to search for *player (asterix at the start). Most of the time I am looking for a specific terms syntax. So normally I do not want all ocurence of player anywhere, bu know that I want the player object's entry (for example). That is why I made it this way. have fun Bjoernke Le 17 juil. 2010 à 15:12, Richmond a écrit : On 07/16/2010 04:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Richmond wrote: The other one that gets a bit much is that the Dictionary is glacially slow. Have you tried Björnke's BvG Docu?: http://bjoernke.com/?target=bvgdocu It works similarly to MC's, and is much more responsive than Rev's. It would be helpful to get your feedback on comparative performance. I have used it intermittently on Mac; my only criticism being that search terms are too strict. Just tried it on Linux and it works right speedily' significantly better than the standard dox. Too strict searched for 'player' in the standard dox, and get: player, player, vcplayer, videoClipPlayer + in BvG Docu get only player player. -- official ChatRev page: http://bjoernke.com?target=chatrev Chat with other RunRev developers: go stack URL http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/chatrev1.3b3.rev; ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On 07/16/2010 04:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Richmond wrote: The other one that gets a bit much is that the Dictionary is glacially slow. Have you tried Björnke's BvG Docu?: http://bjoernke.com/?target=bvgdocu It works similarly to MC's, and is much more responsive than Rev's. It would be helpful to get your feedback on comparative performance. I have used it intermittently on Mac; my only criticism being that search terms are too strict. Just tried it on Linux and it works right speedily' significantly better than the standard dox. Too strict searched for 'player' in the standard dox, and get: player, player, vcplayer, videoClipPlayer + in BvG Docu get only player player. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On 07/16/2010 10:25 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote: Here is how I would go about tracking down these things. Just to recap, the things we are seeking to track down are these four: -- not all and only installed fonts are visible and useable -- revPrintField does not work properly -- virtual desktops don't work -- editor slows down, freezes and crashes Are there other priority areas? There are other niggles, but are there other real basic functionaliry showstoppers? The other one that gets a bit much is that the Dictionary is glacially slow. My suggestion for going about tracking this down is quite different from what most people here will instinctively want to do. The general view here is that Linux is an enormously complex mix of components, so the thing to do is pick some large general purpose distro and standardize on it. I do not believe this to be the solution. In fact, it is a wrong diagnosis of the problem. This approach, which regards each distro as a distinct OS, is actually part of the problem. Were I in charge of the effort I would proceed in EXACTLY THE REVERSE WAY. I would seek to find the minimum installation set, and within that, the one closest to the way packages are released by the developer, that will allow the reproduction of the problems. You can argue about which distro will most readily meet these requirements, but if you want to start from something fairly simple and mainstream and not start compiling the whole thing from scratch, the contender that leaps out at you is Slackware. I accept, there could be an argument for going even further down, like Slitaz or TinyCore. Maybe that is worth a try as well, but they are not, as Slackware is, deliberately as untweaked as possible. So I would propose doing a minimal install of slackware, with nothing but the basic system and the most basic window manager, probably OpenBox. Maybe Metacity without Gnome desktop environment, if you want to be as close as possible to mainstream what it will have to run on. But no Firefox, no OpenOffice, no apps at all. If you can reproduce the problems on this sort of minimal install, then you are much closer to the source, because you have basically ruled out all distro specific issues. If not, then start to add stuff until you do get the problems. This is exactly the right way to proceed. I understand that on this list there is a, well, a precoccupation, with Ubuntu as a distro for use. This is not about use however, this is about a tool to get to the source of the problems. I'm prepared to do serious work on this, but am not capable of writing patches to the IDE myself, and before getting started on the project, would welcome comment, and would like us to have an agreed approach, so what do you all think of the above? It would also be nice to have some feedback from Edinburgh, to the effect that given contributions from us, they will do their bit also. Seems to me that Richard Gaskin is doing the intermediary stuff. Peter ___ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
show stopper: Rev on linux does not respect work with current ubuntu theme, it all displays wrong... ARGH can't create a single button with the correct appearance. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 4:25 AM, Peter Alcibiades palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Here is how I would go about tracking down these things. Just to recap, the things we are seeking to track down are these four: -- not all and only installed fonts are visible and useable -- revPrintField does not work properly -- virtual desktops don't work -- editor slows down, freezes and crashes Are there other priority areas? There are other niggles, but are there other real basic functionaliry showstoppers? My suggestion for going about tracking this down is quite different from what most people here will instinctively want to do. The general view here is that Linux is an enormously complex mix of components, so the thing to do is pick some large general purpose distro and standardize on it. I do not believe this to be the solution. In fact, it is a wrong diagnosis of the problem. This approach, which regards each distro as a distinct OS, is actually part of the problem. Were I in charge of the effort I would proceed in EXACTLY THE REVERSE WAY. I would seek to find the minimum installation set, and within that, the one closest to the way packages are released by the developer, that will allow the reproduction of the problems. You can argue about which distro will most readily meet these requirements, but if you want to start from something fairly simple and mainstream and not start compiling the whole thing from scratch, the contender that leaps out at you is Slackware. I accept, there could be an argument for going even further down, like Slitaz or TinyCore. Maybe that is worth a try as well, but they are not, as Slackware is, deliberately as untweaked as possible. So I would propose doing a minimal install of slackware, with nothing but the basic system and the most basic window manager, probably OpenBox. Maybe Metacity without Gnome desktop environment, if you want to be as close as possible to mainstream what it will have to run on. But no Firefox, no OpenOffice, no apps at all. If you can reproduce the problems on this sort of minimal install, then you are much closer to the source, because you have basically ruled out all distro specific issues. If not, then start to add stuff until you do get the problems. I understand that on this list there is a, well, a precoccupation, with Ubuntu as a distro for use. This is not about use however, this is about a tool to get to the source of the problems. I'm prepared to do serious work on this, but am not capable of writing patches to the IDE myself, and before getting started on the project, would welcome comment, and would like us to have an agreed approach, so what do you all think of the above? It would also be nice to have some feedback from Edinburgh, to the effect that given contributions from us, they will do their bit also. Peter ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On 07/16/2010 03:53 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: show stopper: Rev on linux does not respect work with current ubuntu theme, it all displays wrong... ARGH can't create a single button with the correct appearance. I don't think this should be a major concern; if one considers that on my main Linux box alone I can muck around with its theme with these: Emerald Theme Manager CompizConfig Simple CompizConfig Appearance Art Manager and there are any number of other bits and bobs I can install to tweak what my GUI looks like. How one would expect RunRev to keep up with those I just don't know. Personally, as I like a unified 'theme' to each of my end-products regardless of which OS or flavour thereof an end-user is going to deploy it on I do my own artwork, making very sure that aspects of either RunRev or the end-user's OS windowing system is not going to muck it up. Rules in my book: 1. NEVER use a real button (because they are prone to change in alsorts of funny ways on different systems). 2. NEVER use a real button (because fonts on differing systems play merry-hell with what they look like). 3. Make your 'button' up as you like it on your homestack; snapshot it out as a PNG and then reimport it. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Andre Garzia wrote: show stopper: Rev on linux does not respect work with current ubuntu theme, it all displays wrong... ARGH can't create a single button with the correct appearance. I just made a quick stack with standard buttons, radio buttons, checkboxes, and a scrolling field to check this out. I opened Ubuntu's Appearance Preferences window and tried each of the themes there - all worked for all controls, including the field scrollbar. The only thing that didn't work straight out was using the two Inverse themes which invert colors (white on black). The controls all rendered as expected, but the text didn't automatically invert (which I'm not sure I would expect anyway given the nature of Rev's compositing). What steps do I need to run to see what you're seeing? I'm using Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, with Rev 4.0. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Richmond wrote: The other one that gets a bit much is that the Dictionary is glacially slow. I've seen this as well, but inconsistently. It may be the way they're parsing XML, or perhaps something in the timers, either in the way they use them in scripts or in the engine. Don't know quite yet, and haven't spent much time looking into it since I use my own dictionary (the one in MC IDE) which doesn't use external files at all but instead has everything built into its cards (know the engine, trust the engine, use the engine g). Have you tried Björnke's BvG Docu?: http://bjoernke.com/?target=bvgdocu It works similarly to MC's, and is much more responsive than Rev's. It would be helpful to get your feedback on comparative performance. I'm prepared to do serious work on this, but am not capable of writing patches to the IDE myself, and before getting started on the project, would welcome comment, and would like us to have an agreed approach, so what do you all think of the above? It would also be nice to have some feedback from Edinburgh, to the effect that given contributions from us, they will do their bit also. Seems to me that Richard Gaskin is doing the intermediary stuff. To clarify, I'm happy to do what I can, but I certainly don't mind anyone else doing the same. I don't use the Rev IDE often but I do read a fair bit of its code, so I have a feel for where the bodies lie. If we can come up with good solutions for improving Rev's IDE I'm willing to provide code review and see what can be done for two results: 1. Immediate: Make a patcher to mod the IDE to use the fix. 2. Longer-term: Submit the code to RunRev for review and possible inclusion in the IDE. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Damn fine post, Peter. I've quoted it in its entirety because anyone here who missed it and uses Linux would be missing out if they didn't read it. Excellent stuff - very exciting to see this level of energy from so many of us going into this, kinda like how Linux itself is made. I like your approach of targeting a minimal install, and I think it's an excellent compliment to the admitted fetishism I have with the relatively bloated Ubuntu. Between your slackware, my Ubuntu, Mark Wieder's SUSE, and there's gotta be at least one of us using Red Hat, we should have a good matrix of small and large and in-between distros to coordinate our testing and diagnostics among. I really appreciate your willingness to dive in and help with the work of improving the Rev experience on Linux. I've never been more optimistic about the outlook for my Rev work in Linux than I feel right now. Thanks. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ ambassa...@fourthworld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Peter Alcibiades wrote: Here is how I would go about tracking down these things. Just to recap, the things we are seeking to track down are these four: -- not all and only installed fonts are visible and useable -- revPrintField does not work properly -- virtual desktops don't work -- editor slows down, freezes and crashes Are there other priority areas? There are other niggles, but are there other real basic functionality showstoppers? My suggestion for going about tracking this down is quite different from what most people here will instinctively want to do. The general view here is that Linux is an enormously complex mix of components, so the thing to do is pick some large general purpose distro and standardize on it. I do not believe this to be the solution. In fact, it is a wrong diagnosis of the problem. This approach, which regards each distro as a distinct OS, is actually part of the problem. Were I in charge of the effort I would proceed in EXACTLY THE REVERSE WAY. I would seek to find the minimum installation set, and within that, the one closest to the way packages are released by the developer, that will allow the reproduction of the problems. You can argue about which distro will most readily meet these requirements, but if you want to start from something fairly simple and mainstream and not start compiling the whole thing from scratch, the contender that leaps out at you is Slackware. I accept, there could be an argument for going even further down, like Slitaz or TinyCore. Maybe that is worth a try as well, but they are not, as Slackware is, deliberately as untweaked as possible. So I would propose doing a minimal install of slackware, with nothing but the basic system and the most basic window manager, probably OpenBox. Maybe Metacity without Gnome desktop environment, if you want to be as close as possible to mainstream what it will have to run on. But no Firefox, no OpenOffice, no apps at all. If you can reproduce the problems on this sort of minimal install, then you are much closer to the source, because you have basically ruled out all distro specific issues. If not, then start to add stuff until you do get the problems. I understand that on this list there is a, well, a precoccupation, with Ubuntu as a distro for use. This is not about use however, this is about a tool to get to the source of the problems. I'm prepared to do serious work on this, but am not capable of writing patches to the IDE myself, and before getting started on the project, would welcome comment, and would like us to have an agreed approach, so what do you all think of the above? It would also be nice to have some feedback from Edinburgh, to the effect that given contributions from us, they will do their bit also. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
I just made a quick stack with standard buttons, radio buttons, checkboxes, and a scrolling field to check this out. I opened Ubuntu's Appearance Preferences window and tried each of the themes there - all worked for all controls, including the field scrollbar. The only thing that didn't work straight out was using the two Inverse themes which invert colors (white on black). The controls all rendered as expected, but the text didn't automatically invert (which I'm not sure I would expect anyway given the nature of Rev's compositing). What steps do I need to run to see what you're seeing? I'm using Ubuntu 10.04 LTS, with Rev 4.0. Richard, Despites my poor attempt at linux screenshots, take a look at: http://andregarzia.com/Screenshot.png This is Ubuntu 10.04 with default theme. Check the following issues: * buttons are simply wrong both the default button and the push button. * progress scrollbar has a tiny squared artifact inside next to the image that actually fills it Yes we can use square buttons though... not the round ones... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Andre Garzia wrote: Despites my poor attempt at linux screenshots, take a look at: http://andregarzia.com/Screenshot.png This is Ubuntu 10.04 with default theme. Check the following issues: * buttons are simply wrong both the default button and the push button. * progress scrollbar has a tiny squared artifact inside next to the image that actually fills it Yes we can use square buttons though... not the round ones... Good eye - I've logged the squarish radio buttons as a bug: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8856 Kevin told me on Monday that the default button appearance has been fixed for v4.5; should be evident in the next DP. Forgive my poor eyesight, but what's amiss with the standard button? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Andre Garzia wrote: Despites my poor attempt at linux screenshots, take a look at: http://andregarzia.com/Screenshot.png This is Ubuntu 10.04 with default theme. Check the following issues: * buttons are simply wrong both the default button and the push button. * progress scrollbar has a tiny squared artifact inside next to the image that actually fills it Yes we can use square buttons though... not the round ones... Good eye - I've logged the squarish radio buttons as a bug: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8856 Kevin told me on Monday that the default button appearance has been fixed for v4.5; should be evident in the next DP. Forgive my poor eyesight, but what's amiss with the standard button? The standard button has a darker square around it that is not a part of the button itself. As if it was being drawn as opaque and the whole square occupied by the button is drawn in a darker or different tone, I know the button is supposed to be darker but not the surrounding area, it is as if the button occupies a rect with some padding, between this rect and the actuall button, meaning the gap or space between the button border and the control rect should be on the theme background and not a darker tone. This is what causes the squarish thing on the radio and on the progress as well. Controls are being drawn and sometimes the surrounding collors or bounding rects are wrong. If you are on your linux and has a windows or mac keyboard attached to it, try pressing WINDOWN+N or CMD+N to turn your screen to a negative image, in the negative image is easier to spot the tone differents and the wrong rects. Press again to turn it back to normal. For example see how round should be the interior border of the progress inside the progress bar, the the square corners where they should not be? Are those little cosmetic things that makes us need to go with custom controls and that makes the whole process difficult. I am no scott rossi to roll my own super beautiful controls, I need the GUI to work for me. :D -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Andre wrote: The standard button has a darker square around it that is not a part of the button itself. As if it was being drawn as opaque and the whole square occupied by the button is drawn in a darker or different tone, I know the button is supposed to be darker but not the surrounding area, it is as if the button occupies a rect with some padding, between this rect and the actuall button, meaning the gap or space between the button border and the control rect should be on the theme background and not a darker tone. This is what causes the squarish thing on the radio and on the progress as well. Controls are being drawn and sometimes the surrounding collors or bounding rects are wrong. If you are on your linux and has a windows or mac keyboard attached to it, try pressing WINDOWN+N or CMD+N to turn your screen to a negative image, in the negative image is easier to spot the tone differents and the wrong rects. Press again to turn it back to normal. For example see how round should be the interior border of the progress inside the progress bar, the the square corners where they should not be? Are those little cosmetic things that makes us need to go with custom controls and that makes the whole process difficult. I am no scott rossi to roll my own super beautiful controls, I need the GUI to work for me. Good find - thanks. Logged: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8857 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:54 AM, Richard Gaskin ambassa...@fourthworld.com wrote: Good find - thanks. Logged: http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8857 Thanks for the report, I attached the image, commented and voted for! :-D Let us see if they throw us some linux love... -- http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
If anyone wants to follow along with Slackware, this is where to get the isos. Only the first three CDs should be needed. http://spheniscus.uio.no/pub/linux/slackware/slackware-13.1-iso/ Be aware though, this is not exactly Linux as she is known today, this is not the land of graphical installers, automatic and safe disk partitioning and automatic dependency checks. This is the command line and editing config files. Kind of fun to get back to it. I am proposing to shrink the partitions on my usual machine and do a clean install into free space, then get going. Peter -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Personal-suggestion-for-fixing-the-Linux-situation-tp2291027p2291620.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On 07/16/2010 07:27 PM, Peter Alcibiades wrote: If anyone wants to follow along with Slackware, this is where to get the isos. Only the first three CDs should be needed. http://spheniscus.uio.no/pub/linux/slackware/slackware-13.1-iso/ Be aware though, this is not exactly Linux as she is known today, this is not the land of graphical installers, automatic and safe disk partitioning and automatic dependency checks. This is the command line and editing config files. Kind of fun to get back to it. I am proposing to shrink the partitions on my usual machine and do a clean install into free space, then get going. Peter And what, pray tell, is the point of that? unless to demonstrate hairy-chestedness. Surely RunRev 4 needs to function on the Linux distros of 'today'; rather like RunRev 4 doesn't work on Mac OS 10.2; a Mac OS of 'yesterday'. And, frankly. I doubt that many users and would-be users of RunRev on Linux can be bothered to mess around with the sort of thing I successfully trashed alsorts of machines with in 1999! Wouldn't it be sensible to find a 2 year old 'general' Linux rather than going back to the future? Let's say a Debian release from mid-2008 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Peter Alcibiades palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: If anyone wants to follow along with Slackware, this is where to get the isos. Only the first three CDs should be needed. http://spheniscus.uio.no/pub/linux/slackware/slackware-13.1-iso/ Be aware though, this is not exactly Linux as she is known today, this is not the land of graphical installers, automatic and safe disk partitioning and automatic dependency checks. This is the command line and editing config files. snip I remember the days all too well... and although very interesting at the time, I can't attest that they were all that pleasant in many cases. Kind of fun to get back to it. Fun I believe, is a matter subject to personal interpretation. ;-) Sorry, but I think I'm gonna pass this time around. Good luck and happy compiling from the terminal! Best regards, David C. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
The point is diagnostic. If we knew the answer, there would be no need to do this. We need to find the lowest level at which the problems occur. Or don't occur. At the moment, we have no idea if its Linux, Gnome, Ubuntu. We have no idea if its the basic packages as they come from the developer, or the distro tweaks. I want to know exactly when the problems happen, and when they do not. I want to get to something completely stripped down, where maybe they will not happen, and then add stuff in a controlled way till they do. Its not macho. its called scientific method. Anyone with a better idea, tell us. So far in year upon year, no-one seems to have. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Personal-suggestion-for-fixing-the-Linux-situation-tp2291027p2291851.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Let me explain again. You take the most minimalist possible Linux. As little gui tools as possible. You take the distro that has the least possible tweaking of any applications. Then you try to find out: do virtual desktops work here? Are all fonts visible here? Does the editor crash here? If it works fine, you have learned something important. You know that it is something at a higher level than this that is causing the problem. So you start adding stuff, one thing at a time. Eventually you can tie it down. Or it may be that in Slackware, it just works. Then you know it is in other distro tweaks and customizations. This is not about what we use for goodness' sake! I don't use Slackware any more (though I would for servers). This is about systematically tying down what it is that is causing the problems, going through and eliminating possible causes one after the other. I don't mind the command line and editing text files at all, but its not something that I want to do in my regular working system. But there is no other way of getting as close to bare metal as you can, and there is no other way of eliminating most of the possible sources of the problems than getting down to bare metal. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Personal-suggestion-for-fixing-the-Linux-situation-tp2291027p2291864.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Personal suggestion for fixing the Linux situation
Let me explain again. You take the most minimalist possible Linux. As little gui tools as possible. You take the distro that has the least possible tweaking of any applications. Then you try to find out: do virtual desktops work here? Are all fonts visible here? Does the editor crash here? If it works fine, you have learned something important. You know that it is something at a higher level than this that is causing the problem. So you start adding stuff, one thing at a time. Eventually you can tie it down. Or it may be that in Slackware, it just works. Then you know it is in other distro tweaks and customizations. This is not about what we use for goodness' sake! I don't use Slackware any more (though I would for servers). This is about systematically tying down what it is that is causing the problems, going through and eliminating possible causes one after the other. I don't mind the command line and editing text files at all, but its not something that I want to do in my regular working system. But there is no other way of getting as close to bare metal as you can, and there is no other way of eliminating most of the possible sources of the problems than getting down to bare metal. Oh, I understood what you are attempting completely before commenting... I was just tossing out a few good natured jabs based on past personal experiences and the impending fun you are setting up for. It's been a long time since I've used the shell for much of anything important, much less actually attempting to bootstrap a distro up from scratch again... Haven't gone down that path since around version 7 or maybe 8 of the old Mandrake offerings and I'm happy to say so. :) I did finally get around to wiping the drive on my laptop and installing the latest Ubuntu last evening. Maybe I can get back in the swing and be of some sort of help eventually. Best regards, David C. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
