Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Which is why I said then I thought better of the idea. On 16/05/07, Chipp Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And exactly how does 'letting them sue you' save money? Lawyers cost money no matter which side of a case they are on. In reality though it would be a foolish company or individual to sue you if they had absolutely no case, and if they did you could always represent yourself, or better get a lawyer to defend you on a no-win-no-fee basis. If you have the facts, ie the contract, the comments in the code etc and you use conventional journalistic standards in reporting them, you should be on fairly safe ground. Of course if you want to play really safe - you'd be better taking it as a learning exercise - who to trust who not that sort of thing. On the other hand if as is often the case you really do not want people to get away with that sort of thing, you are angry, and you want to forewarn other people, simply letting it slide under the carpet may not be what you are after. I still think there should be some sort of web site for publishing these sort of stories. Companies and individuals would think twice about ripping someone off, whereas as it is at the moment they know they are likely to get away with it. The counter problem of course is spurious claims - but these would be subject to libel in the normal way for any publication. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
On 5/16/07, David Bovill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which is why I said then I thought better of the idea. Oh, sorry. Didn't see THAT :-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Thanks - if thats the right word Andre. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Andre - you made me think of the little guy versus big guy in law issue... I have known a number of people with similar stories, and it makes me think always of what to do in the age of the internet about these issues. And every time I have this thought - so you have the evidence but not the money to take them to court - so why not publish the story on the net and let them sue you - so you get your chance to produce your evidence without the cost? And then I think better of the idea. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
On 5/15/07, David Bovill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so why not publish the story on the net and let them sue you - so you get your chance to produce your evidence without the cost? And exactly how does 'letting them sue you' save money? Lawyers cost money no matter which side of a case they are on. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
On 13/05/07, Robert Brenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Brenstein wrote: Another example: scientific applications where users can enter their own functions for analyzing, processing, or displaying some data. Given how few scientists also have Rev experience, is it necessary that the functions be written in Transcript? No - not necessary. For these sort of applications I think it is easy enough to allow people to script in any language they want by organising a plugins folder with shell scripts - so you could use python, perl, SQL or whatever you have and are able to use. The thing is for novices it is easier to learn Transcript, and there is the speed advantage... The way I look at it is a slightly puzzled question to RunRevs strategy here - there would be no better way of getting a greater mind share for the RunRev IDE than alowing a bunch of tools to be created which demonstrate the simplicity and advantages of coding in Transcript over other scripting languages - this needs applications like this that give you the choice while providing an easy path to get into Rev scripting. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
I'm working on such an app for a particular engineering niche market (just happens to correspond to my day job), perhaps it will be adaptable in future to other uses. I'm taking care of the branching and looping within my code and 'doing' one script line at a time. It still runs pretty fast. There's an early public beta at www.xtrados.com if you're interested, maybe you guys can point out some of the flaws. At this point it doesn't prevent malicious use, for instance deleting files. Can anyone suggest any more security issues to be aware of ? regards Martin ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
windows only at this stage.. There's an early public beta at www.xtrados.com if you're interested, ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Yes, making up your own little language is cool (and fun, if one is geeky enough). There's nothing to stop anyone from making a little text interpreter that could use any syntax desired, even the 'reserved' words. The 'script editor' could just be a field or a builder, like in 4th Dimension. I did that in Hypercard. The list of limited commands could just be interpreted line by line, and either acted upon, error responded to or ignored. And of course it could easily be made platform-agnostic. I'm working on such an app for a particular engineering niche market (just happens to correspond to my day job), perhaps it will be adaptable in future to other uses. I'm taking care of the branching and looping within my code and 'doing' one script line at a time. It still runs pretty fast. There's an early public beta at www.xtrados.com if you're interested, maybe you guys can point out some of the flaws. At this point it doesn't prevent malicious use, for instance deleting files. Can anyone suggest any more security issues to be aware of ? regards Martin -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
On 5/13/07, David Bovill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd agree with Roger on both the key points - use law not functional restrictions and at least extend to 25 lines. Would that suppose we should never copy protect our applications as we can use law to sue pirates? That said, I do agree with your 25 lines restriction. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
On 14/05/07, Chipp Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would that suppose we should never copy protect our applications as we can use law to sue pirates? That said, I do agree with your 25 lines restriction. Out of interest has anyone on this list had software pirated / re-engineered? I'd be interested to hear of any cases. End user copying is very common - but I've not come across stories of someone or taking an app and copying the code illegally to sell a derivative version, but then I might just be being naive here? Go-on make me paranoid :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet
By the way, here is a list of expressions and functions implemented in sqlite: http://www.sqlite.org/lang_expr.html All the best! Viktoras ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
David Bovill wrote: Given how few scientists also have Rev experience, is it necessary that the functions be written in Transcript? No - not necessary. For these sort of applications I think it is easy enough to allow people to script in any language they want by organising a plugins folder with shell scripts - so you could use python, perl, SQL or whatever you have and are able to use. The thing is for novices it is easier to learn Transcript, and there is the speed advantage... I dunno. Lua and Python are pretty fast -- I like your suggestion there. If one had an external to run those, they could leverage the great many existing libraries for those languages. The way I look at it is a slightly puzzled question to RunRevs strategy here - there would be no better way of getting a greater mind share for the RunRev IDE than alowing a bunch of tools to be created which demonstrate the simplicity and advantages of coding in Transcript over other scripting languages - this needs applications like this that give you the choice while providing an easy path to get into Rev scripting. The current entry cost is as little as $49. I'd guess that a bigger factor in adoption is that it's a proprietary sole-source system. But I don't see that changing anytime soon. Just for the record, I personally don't care whether the scriptLimits is 10 lines, 15, 20, 25, or infinite. If you can present a strong business case to RunRev for extending it to 25 I'd support that. My interest in pursuing solutions that work within the existing framework is simply that it's what we have. I'm assuming people have real needs and would like real solutions they could apply today. We could postulate about possible different future implementations, and to the degree such efforts lead toward a business case presented to Rev it may be very helpful. But in the meantime, I remain most interested in solving real-world problems with what's available right now. If any of you need to provide a 4GL or 5GL for your users, lets explore that to see what can be done. In my own apps I'm adding a 5GL of my own design, simpler and more focused on the task at hand than Transcript. And for those who would want full Transcript capabilities, I'd be happy to sell a value-added package with RevMedia bundled with tools for our app, a simple win-win for all. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Well, here are some that violate the Open Source GPL: http://gpl- violations.org/ Cheers, Luis. On 14 May 2007, at 19:43, David Bovill wrote: On 14/05/07, Chipp Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would that suppose we should never copy protect our applications as we can use law to sue pirates? That said, I do agree with your 25 lines restriction. Out of interest has anyone on this list had software pirated / re-engineered? I'd be interested to hear of any cases. End user copying is very common - but I've not come across stories of someone or taking an app and copying the code illegally to sell a derivative version, but then I might just be being naive here? Go-on make me paranoid :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
I had my first company (called macrowarp, silly name, I didn't choose it) bankrupt due to piracy. It was a very specific case, we had a big contract for creating a web portal, it was very big so we devoted the whole company to it. We were going to earn about 25k USD, this was enough for the salaries and paying the financing of our machines and the rent. We used our reserves to keep floating while we fulfilled that contract. In the end, the contractor was trying to talk his way into paying less or paying later, one of our directors decided to try to show them a snapshot of the project so that they'd be happy with it and pay. They copied the snapshot, we never saw the money, portal went online and they hired a cheaper company owned by a relative of one of their employee to maintain it. we were so broke that we didn't even had the money to sue. legal system in Brazil is so slow that can take many many years to solve something. We went bankrupt, closed the company. Weddings were cancelled, Universities abandoned. I was the one that suffered less, I just lost two computers and money. And the worst part was seeing the portal up and seeing my comments in the HTML. This is not the standard case of piracy but it is piracy indeed. Most piracy of little sharewares don't hurt, they actually help to spread the product and if your software is good enough and priced right, even the pirates will buy it out of goodwill. This was big piracy... :-/ On the other hand, I was the first one to create a Blog client for the Macintosh, it was done in RB for MacOS 9. It was shareware and it sold well, never saw piracy but that would just give me more exposure I think. andre On 14 May 2007, at 19:43, David Bovill wrote: On 14/05/07, Chipp Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would that suppose we should never copy protect our applications as we can use law to sue pirates? That said, I do agree with your 25 lines restriction. Out of interest has anyone on this list had software pirated / re-engineered? I'd be interested to hear of any cases. End user copying is very common - but I've not come across stories of someone or taking an app and copying the code illegally to sell a derivative version, but then I might just be being naive here? Go-on make me paranoid :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet
Hi David, regarding the formula processing and scripting, in one project I am using sqlite to store and process tables because the SQL92 standard supports things like as well as all major mathematical operators: SELECT a, b, CASE WHEN ab AND a2 THEN 'a is greater' WHEN a=b THEN a+b WHEN ab THEN 'b is greater' ELSE 'unknown' END FROM mytable; SQL95 standard brings SQL even closer to complete programming languages, but it is not yet implemented in litesql which however and luckily is (almost) SQL92 compliant. Anyway I see this as the only way to implement any scripting and formula translation in Revolution, otherwise your end users are likely to smash into the infamous scriptlimit which is 10 lines of Revcode. All the best! Viktoras ---Original Message--- From: David Bovill Date: 12/05/2007 18:17:35 To: How to use Revolution Subject: Spreadsheet I am just starting work on a basic spreadsheet in Rev - I have a few fragments but was wandering if anyone has some work they would be willing to share? The bits I have: 1. altTable like component with headers 2. data model 3. bits to read and write to OpenOffice documents I don't have any GUI or code for viewing, adding and editing formulae, or a general way of taking standard formulae and applying them to cells. Any ideas? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet
I never heard of this script limit other then in early demos. Can you
explain?
Also I like the idea of your use of the SQLite functions in your project.
On 5/13/07 6:57 AM, Viktoras Didziulis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyway I see this as the only way to implement any scripting and formula
translation in Revolution, otherwise your end users are likely to smash into
the infamous scriptlimit which is 10 lines of Revcode.
|||
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^ ^
^^^^^
^^^
24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (815) 331-0838
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Re: Spreadsheet
You cannot create a product that lets you enter more then 10 lines of
script into the script of an object when not in the ide (actually you
can, but the lines won't execute). You cannot give the do command more
then 10 lines to execute.
Note that 10 lines in this context doesn't equal 9 returns, but is
somewhat more complicated (ie. most if constructs are one line, the
on/end pair is one line, and some more caveats)
Also check the documentation entry for the scriptlimits function.
(There used to be an About... entry on this, but the About... pages
went the way of the dodo)
On 13 May 2007, at 15:07, Bill wrote:
I never heard of this script limit other then in early demos. Can you
explain?
Also I like the idea of your use of the SQLite functions in your
project.
On 5/13/07 6:57 AM, Viktoras Didziulis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyway I see this as the only way to implement any scripting and
formula
translation in Revolution, otherwise your end users are likely to
smash into
the infamous scriptlimit which is 10 lines of Revcode.
|||
)_) )_) )_)
)___))___))___)\
)))_)\\
_|||\\\__
---\ /- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com
^ ^
^^^^^
^^^
24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190
fax: (815) 331-0838
Blue Water Maritime
P.O. Box 2087
Rio Grande, PR 00745
___
use-revolution mailing list
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subscription preferences:
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Re: Spreadsheet
Hi Bill, check the Rev documentation (2.8.0) dictionary on scriptLimits and script property: ..when using a standalone application, an object's script property may not be set to a string containing more than ten statements. This limit is set by line 1 of the scriptLimits function. (This does not limit scripts that are already written: standalone applications can run scripts of any length. However, if the standalone attempts to change an object's script property, and the script contains more than the allowable number of statements, the attempt to set the script causes an error.)... It is likely to prevent somebody using Revolution studio to create a competing RAD environment. Unfortunately this also prevents from implementing any kind of scripting, or complex formula translations which would not compete with the RAD in any way. Therefore in order to implement end-user scripting for own products (like allowing user to create decision trees with formulas in nodes) some of us have to resort to other languages via shell or SQL92/95 as alternatives. I guess the most efficient way is to use SQL because of its tight integration with Revolution through its database modules. Best! Viktoras ---Original Message--- From: Bill Date: 13/05/2007 16:07:45 To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Spreadsheet I never heard of this script limit other then in early demos. Can you explain? Also I like the idea of your use of the SQLite functions in your project. On 5/13/07 6:57 AM, Viktoras Didziulis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway I see this as the only way to implement any scripting and formula translation in Revolution, otherwise your end users are likely to smash into the infamous scriptlimit which is 10 lines of Revcode. | | | )_) )_) )_) )___))___))___)\ )))_)\\ _|||\\\__ ---\ /- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com ^ ^ ^^^ ^^ ^^^ 24 hour cell: (787) 378-6190 fax: (815) 331-0838 Blue Water Maritime P.O. Box 2087 Rio Grande, PR 00745 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet
Thanks everyone - yes using Rev syntax would hit the Script limits using do - but I think: put value(field cell 1,3 + field cell 1,4 / field cell 1,5) into Would not be subject to this, using SQL syntax is also interesting - I would like to use the same syntax that people would use in Excel / OpenOffice... so I am thinking of creating a parser for this... With regard to the OpenOffice code - its a fragment at the moment, and all it does is unzip the file and read the folder / XML structure... it is not useful yet, and I plan to get this ready for a number of similar formats to release later. My guess with regard to a general spread sheet object would be to take a table and then add a custom property which would contain any formulae referenced by cell (ie 2,5). An evaluate function would then loop through this custom property array and evaluate each of the formulae - replacing / updating the contents of the cell - I have never used the Rev table object because of difficulty in hacking it - and here you would need to intercept the Rev table object calls when editing a formula cell - does anyone have any experience of trapping Rev table calls - is when editing the cell? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
On 05/13/2007 at 10:16 AM Viktoras Didziulis wrote: It is likely to prevent somebody using Revolution studio to create a competing RAD environment. Unfortunately this also prevents from implementing any kind of scripting, or complex formula translations which would not compete with the RAD in any way. Therefore in order to implement end-user scripting for own products (like allowing user to create decision trees with formulas in nodes) some of us have to resort to other languages via shell or SQL92/95 as alternatives. I guess the most efficient way is to use SQL because of its tight integration with Revolution through its database modules. Best! Viktoras Shouldn't this limitation be obsoleted? I had read once that RunTime had no fear of a competing IDE, and in fact, they incourage it. It was explained that a license to the engine is still required, so RunTime would still benefit from sales. This ancient 10 line limit is well, limiting us as developers. Do any of Revs competing languages have such a limit imposed on built standalone apps? Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Almost all commercial products in the same market are compiled. Interpreted languages, and thus languages that can change code during runtime, are most often open source. That said, I'd love to be able to use more lines in do, or setting more lines of a script. On 13 May 2007, at 17:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 05/13/2007 at 10:16 AM Viktoras Didziulis wrote: It is likely to prevent somebody using Revolution studio to create a competing RAD environment. Unfortunately this also prevents from implementing any kind of scripting, or complex formula translations which would not compete with the RAD in any way. Therefore in order to implement end-user scripting for own products (like allowing user to create decision trees with formulas in nodes) some of us have to resort to other languages via shell or SQL92/95 as alternatives. I guess the most efficient way is to use SQL because of its tight integration with Revolution through its database modules. Best! Viktoras Shouldn't this limitation be obsoleted? I had read once that RunTime had no fear of a competing IDE, and in fact, they incourage it. It was explained that a license to the engine is still required, so RunTime would still benefit from sales. This ancient 10 line limit is well, limiting us as developers. Do any of Revs competing languages have such a limit imposed on built standalone apps? Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
No - I don't think this makes sense - I wish it did. Allowing you to add as many lines of code as you want and create your own IDE would mean you could recreate an app with RunRev IDE functionality and release this as a binary without needing anything from RunRev - hence the script limits? RunRev may be encouraging alternative IDE's but thats not the same as being able to release a straight competative product based only on purchasing a single user license? On the other hand I do not see why they don't free up the script limits and use the law to enforce the non-competing IDE thing - though I'd say that in the long term none of this is going to make any sense to anyone. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Shouldn't this limitation be obsoleted? I had read once that RunTime had no fear of a competing IDE, and in fact, they incourage it. It was explained that a license to the engine is still required, so RunTime would still benefit from sales. This ancient 10 line limit is well, limiting us as developers. Do any of Revs competing languages have such a limit imposed on built standalone apps? Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you are confusing two different things. An IDE runs with licensed engine, so the script limits do not apply. This is why we can use alternative IDEs. The stand-alone applications or stacks running in the player are subject to script limits. Were they not, some mischievious person would release a stack that allows anyone to run any size script, effectively eliminating a need for buying the license. This would, of course, kill RR's business. The limits affect only scripts that are compiled at runtime, when running not in licensed IDE that is, like the code executed through do. Robert ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: ScriptLimits (was Spreadsheet)
Viktoras Didziulis wrote: It is likely to prevent somebody using Revolution studio to create a competing RAD environment. Unfortunately this also prevents from implementing any kind of scripting, or complex formula translations which would not compete with the RAD in any way. Therefore in order to implement end-user scripting for own products (like allowing user to create decision trees with formulas in nodes) some of us have to resort to other languages via shell or SQL92/95 as alternatives. Those are good options, and you can design your own 4GLs and 5GLs in Rev too. Rev's lighting-fast text processing makes crafting interpreters reasonably efficient for lightweight jobs, and you have the freedom to tailor the language for your application's audience. As much as I personally enjoy xTalk, I wouldn't wish it on my customers. Rev is far too broad and deep for an audience that just needs to automate a few tasks. David Bovill wrote: Thanks everyone - yes using Rev syntax would hit the Script limits using do - but I think: put value(field cell 1,3 +field cell 1,4/field cell 1,5) into Would not be subject to this True enough: scriptLimits doesn't limit the data you can work on, only how many executable statements can be created on the fly. Using do and send you can execute up to 10 statements at a time, which is usually more than most spreadsheets will need. Roger Eller wrote: Shouldn't this limitation be obsoleted? I had read once that RunTime had no fear of a competing IDE, and in fact, they incourage it. It was explained that a license to the engine is still required, so RunTime would still benefit from sales. This ancient 10 line limit is well, limiting us as developers. Do any of Revs competing languages have such a limit imposed on built standalone apps? Not through that property specifically, but by other means. HyperCard, SuperCard, OMO, and Gain Momentum all required non-distributable, compiled elements to develop in. Rev is the first I've seen that packs so much raw power into a small self-contained app. Indeed it is the security provided by the scriptLimits which allows RunRev to be supportive of alternate IDEs. Currently it is as you describe: No matter what collection of stacks a user runs in Rev as the IDE, they still need to have a licensed Rev engine to run them. But if the scriptLimits were bypassed then any standalone could do what Rev does, and any customer could buy one copy of Rev, write an IDE for it, and compete directly with Rev. Talk about ROI: RunRev puts hundreds of thousands of pounds in acquiring and enhancing the engine, and someone else takes that for the low cost of a Studio license. With nothing more than $299 at stake, they could afford to sell the product for far less than RunRev, and could appreciably damage the viability of the company, and hence further enhancement of the engine myself and my clients depend on for our businesses. The downsides of removing scriptLimits are clear, but what are the downsides of keeping it? While there may be theoretical annoyances related to scriptLimits, in practice I haven't seen a case yet where it was an actual issue. Most of Rev's thousands of customers never even have occasion to run across the scriptLimits, and many of those who do either find more efficient solutions than the complexity of self-modifying code or, like David Bovill, custom-craft their own parsers to arrive at exactly the syntax they want to deliver to their customers. For the very, very small subset of those whose app truly needs to support Transcript scripting specifically, Kevin has made it clear time and again that they can contact him to arrange that. Last time I asked him about this no on had taken him up on the offer. And depending on one's business model, it may not even require such negotiation. One of my apps will support its own 5GL later this year, and may offer direct xTalk scripting as an optional add-on pack for the very few customers who would want it. In such cases we plan to just buy licenses for RevMedia, add our tools, and sell the package for $99. Rev makes their $49, we make an additional $50 for our value-added components, and the customer discovers that they not only get open scripting but also a bunch of nifty media templates. What's not to like? :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
On 05/13/2007 at 11:37 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: Shouldn't this limitation be obsoleted? I had read once that RunTime had no fear of a competing IDE, and in fact, they encourage it. It was explained that a license to the engine is still required, so RunTime would still benefit from sales. This ancient 10 line limit is well, limiting us as developers. Do any of Revs competing languages have such a limit imposed on built standalone apps? Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you are confusing two different things. An IDE runs with licensed engine, so the script limits do not apply. This is why we can use alternative IDEs. The stand-alone applications or stacks running in the player are subject to script limits. Were they not, some mischievious person would release a stack that allows anyone to run any size script, effectively eliminating a need for buying the license. This would, of course, kill RR's business. The limits affect only scripts that are compiled at runtime, when running not in licensed IDE that is, like the code executed through do. Robert I admit my confusion regarding the conditions of where and why the script limits exist. I still believe it to be an unnecessary constraining factor in a developers ability to create dynamic code in their standalones when law could be used instead to enforce anti-piracy. Certain application types need this flexibility such as AI. My preference would be either the removal of the limitation completely or to expand it to 25 lines (or more). It would still be limiting enough to prevent mischievous persons from stealing RRs business, yet broad enough that most developers could accomplish their goals when longer dynamic scripts are really needed. Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
I'd agree with Roger on both the key points - use law not functional restrictions and at least extend to 25 lines. On 13/05/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 05/13/2007 at 11:37 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote: Shouldn't this limitation be obsoleted? I had read once that RunTime had no fear of a competing IDE, and in fact, they encourage it. It was explained that a license to the engine is still required, so RunTime would still benefit from sales. This ancient 10 line limit is well, limiting us as developers. Do any of Revs competing languages have such a limit imposed on built standalone apps? Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think you are confusing two different things. An IDE runs with licensed engine, so the script limits do not apply. This is why we can use alternative IDEs. The stand-alone applications or stacks running in the player are subject to script limits. Were they not, some mischievious person would release a stack that allows anyone to run any size script, effectively eliminating a need for buying the license. This would, of course, kill RR's business. The limits affect only scripts that are compiled at runtime, when running not in licensed IDE that is, like the code executed through do. Robert I admit my confusion regarding the conditions of where and why the script limits exist. I still believe it to be an unnecessary constraining factor in a developers ability to create dynamic code in their standalones when law could be used instead to enforce anti-piracy. Certain application types need this flexibility such as AI. My preference would be either the removal of the limitation completely or to expand it to 25 lines (or more). It would still be limiting enough to prevent mischievous persons from stealing RRs business, yet broad enough that most developers could accomplish their goals when longer dynamic scripts are really needed. Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Roger.E.Eller wrote: I still believe it to be an unnecessary constraining factor in a developers ability to create dynamic code in their standalones when law could be used instead to enforce anti-piracy. If a fly-by-nighter steals RunRev's work, RunRev could sue the culprit for everything they had and chances are with someone playing at such a low level it won't amount to a fraction of the money the company would have lost. The most effective enforcement is prevention. Since the product was born in 1992, the method of preventing this form of piracy has been scriptLimits. Certain application types need this flexibility such as AI. My preference would be either the removal of the limitation completely or to expand it to 25 lines (or more). It would still be limiting enough to prevent mischievous persons from stealing RRs business, yet broad enough that most developers could accomplish their goals when longer dynamic scripts are really needed. Personally, I'd like to see it go much further and make the entire engine fully open source with no limits of any kind. But then again I don't follow Eric Raymond's economic theories, and certainly don't begrudge the folks at RunRev a chance to get some ROI and earn a living. So in the meantime, let's take a look at this: Can you describe the algorithms that need self-modifying code, and how those are handled in compiled languages like C? What's happening in those 15 extra lines that makes the difference in usefulness? I'll bet some of the folks here can find a solution that's at least workable, possibly even more efficient and easier to maintain than the caveats and migraines traditionally associated with self-modifying code. ;) If we find that yours is the unique circumstance where there really isn't any way to take advantage of classic compiled algorithms, perhaps you could take Kevin up on his offer and see what can be worked out for your app. But I'd be interested in seeing folks chew on this first, if only because I love a good problem-solving session and almost always learn a lot from it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Roger.E.Eller wrote: Certain application types need this flexibility such as AI. My preference would be either the removal of the limitation completely or to expand it to 25 lines (or more). It would still be limiting enough to prevent mischievous persons from stealing RRs business, yet broad enough that most developers could accomplish their goals when longer dynamic scripts are really needed. Richard Gaskin wrote: Can you describe the algorithms that need self-modifying code, and how those are handled in compiled languages like C? What's happening in those 15 extra lines that makes the difference in usefulness? I don't do C, and have no idea where to begin with compiled languages. My background is in HC, followed by VMS DCL scripts (fully self-modifyable), and then Revolution. I must admit that moving to Rev made me feel at home again with scripting. I can remember making a 3000 line handler in VMS-DCL that was constantly rewriting itself based on a multitude of system events that it was monitoring. I actually named my script demon seed based on the old sci-fi thriller where the computer became self-aware and figured out how to create a life-form for its consciousness. Yeah, I think I'll need at least 25 lines for that. ;D I'll bet some of the folks here can find a solution that's at least workable, possibly even more efficient and easier to maintain than the caveats and migraines traditionally associated with self-modifying code. ;) I wish I had an example to put out there for the list to dissect. I too enjoy watching the code change as it is molded into better form by the pros on this list. The last time I created self-modifying scripts in Rev, I stayed within the 10 line limit without a problem. The disadvantage I found was that returning to the code a few years later, it was difficult to follow what was happening. I have to be in that zone of consciousness where you are so focussed that you ARE the machine. Writing the code just flows, and it all just seems so clear. I've been known to forget to eat while in the zone. Then you go to a few meetings and the flow stops and it seems impossible to regain the zone. I'm sure you all have been there. I love the zone. Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Roger Eller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
There are two examples which are not reated to self modyfyin code really: 1) Spread sheet type applications where the user can do simple stuff but extend the manipulations to any level using an embedded scripting language that is as easy to understand and write ans Transcript 2) Component frameworks in which high end components can be created by developers and then customised with a built in scripting language, or even 3) Components created within a free environment and made available to be used in the commercial IDE, which has extended workflow tool sets over and above the pure language.. On 13/05/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roger.E.Eller wrote: I still believe it to be an unnecessary constraining factor in a developers ability to create dynamic code in their standalones when law could be used instead to enforce anti-piracy. If a fly-by-nighter steals RunRev's work, RunRev could sue the culprit for everything they had and chances are with someone playing at such a low level it won't amount to a fraction of the money the company would have lost. The most effective enforcement is prevention. Since the product was born in 1992, the method of preventing this form of piracy has been scriptLimits. Certain application types need this flexibility such as AI. My preference would be either the removal of the limitation completely or to expand it to 25 lines (or more). It would still be limiting enough to prevent mischievous persons from stealing RRs business, yet broad enough that most developers could accomplish their goals when longer dynamic scripts are really needed. Personally, I'd like to see it go much further and make the entire engine fully open source with no limits of any kind. But then again I don't follow Eric Raymond's economic theories, and certainly don't begrudge the folks at RunRev a chance to get some ROI and earn a living. So in the meantime, let's take a look at this: Can you describe the algorithms that need self-modifying code, and how those are handled in compiled languages like C? What's happening in those 15 extra lines that makes the difference in usefulness? I'll bet some of the folks here can find a solution that's at least workable, possibly even more efficient and easier to maintain than the caveats and migraines traditionally associated with self-modifying code. ;) If we find that yours is the unique circumstance where there really isn't any way to take advantage of classic compiled algorithms, perhaps you could take Kevin up on his offer and see what can be worked out for your app. But I'd be interested in seeing folks chew on this first, if only because I love a good problem-solving session and almost always learn a lot from it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
There are two examples which are not reated to self modyfyin code really: 1) Spread sheet type applications where the user can do simple stuff but extend the manipulations to any level using an embedded scripting language that is as easy to understand and write ans Transcript 2) Component frameworks in which high end components can be created by developers and then customised with a built in scripting language, or even 3) Components created within a free environment and made available to be used in the commercial IDE, which has extended workflow tool sets over and above the pure language.. Another example: scientific applications where users can enter their own functions for analyzing, processing, or displaying some data. I can sympathize with Roger and others who got their wings cut by scriptLimits. I used to write programs in HC that relied on unlimited do scripting and dynamically created handlers for buttons, but had to give that up once I fully moved to MC/Rev. Yes, I lost some business opportunities as the result. But can't blame RR too much. Relying on purely legal protection is rubbish in this business. Actually, at some point in the past, RR offered custom licensing on one-by-one basis for those who need to go above scriptLimits, but I never succeeded in getting any specifics from RR. Theoretically, that could work if RR had an option to produce custom engine versions but I suspect the benefits to a few users are too small to justify the effort. As things are, there are a few standard engines that keep missing their releases. Actually, the products and prices changed a lot over time. Some of the dynamic programs could be sold as a package with RevMedia, thus letting users work in IDE without having to worry about scripLimits. Robert ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Robert Brenstein wrote: Another example: scientific applications where users can enter their own functions for analyzing, processing, or displaying some data. Given how few scientists also have Rev experience, is it necessary that the functions be written in Transcript? What sorts of functions would be needed? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Script Limits in 2.8.0 [was Spreadsheet]
Robert Brenstein wrote: Another example: scientific applications where users can enter their own functions for analyzing, processing, or displaying some data. Given how few scientists also have Rev experience, is it necessary that the functions be written in Transcript? What sorts of functions would be needed? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation I meant an application, written as Rev app, that handles some scientific data and allows users to enter functions which my program uses to process data. Those functions (functions in mathematical not Transcript sense) could be a few lines of code or a few hundred, including subroutines. When programming such an app in traditional language, I'd include own parser, but doing so in Transcript would have been counterproductive. Anyway, this is a history for me. The specific app I had opportunity to market would have dealt with biochemical data (from experiments). ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Spreadsheet
I am just starting work on a basic spreadsheet in Rev - I have a few fragments but was wandering if anyone has some work they would be willing to share? The bits I have: 1. altTable like component with headers 2. data model 3. bits to read and write to OpenOffice documents I don't have any GUI or code for viewing, adding and editing formulae, or a general way of taking standard formulae and applying them to cells. Any ideas? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet
I have something basic with a 'formula bar' but the spreadsheet doesn't actually allow for formulas, its basically for table entry. Send me an email if that's of any interest. I don't have any GUI or code for viewing, adding and editing formulae, or a general way of taking standard formulae and applying them to cells. Any ideas? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet
Hi David Unfortunately, I don't have any spreadsheet to share. I would be interested in your OpenOffice code though, any chance of making an example stack which contains your snippets? As for formula handling, is there a special format you had in mind with standard formulae? Otherwise you could do (hehe) something like this: 1. Make up your code, as similar to rev code as possible. For example (off the top of my mind): cell 1,3 + cell 1,4 / cell 1,5 2. Replace stuff rev doesn't understand with rev stuff (assuming every cell is a rev field): field cell 1,3 + field cell 1,4 / field cell 1,5 3. evaluate the string in rev: put value(field cell 1,3 + field cell 1,4 / field cell 1,5) into field cell 1,6 You could of course use do as an alternative, I'm not sure if that'd be more complex, but it would certainly be less secure. have fun Björnke On 12 May 2007, at 17:17, David Bovill wrote: I am just starting work on a basic spreadsheet in Rev - I have a few fragments but was wandering if anyone has some work they would be willing to share? The bits I have: 1. altTable like component with headers 2. data model 3. bits to read and write to OpenOffice documents I don't have any GUI or code for viewing, adding and editing formulae, or a general way of taking standard formulae and applying them to cells. Any ideas? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
But it doesn't run natively on OSX Regards James -- James J Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel. +44 (0)15394 43063 On 25 Mar, 2007, at 17:51, Don Jungk wrote: Hi Viktoras, You might take a look at SoftMaker's Office suite. http://www.softmaker.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
On Saturday 24 March 2007 6:51 am, Viktoras Didziulis wrote: Could you please let me know what open source or proprietary spreadsheet software do you usually use on your Macintoshes ? Do not mention Microsoft, I already know this, now looking for cheaper alternatives. Thanks for any advice! Hi Viktoras, You might take a look at SoftMaker's Office suite. http://www.softmaker.net I have not run it on Macintosh, but I have used their products on Linux and they are Far Far better than OpenOffice. Much faster opening, scrolling, everything. I think it is around $80 US for the word procedssor and spreadsheet combination. They had a special price that ended last week, so I'm not sure now. Don ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
Sorry, this is slightly off-topic, but I know there are many good-willed MacOS users on this list :-) I have just acquired MacBook (MacOSX 10.4.8 Tiger, 1.83 Ghz Intel Core Duo, etc...). Now facing a problem - what software to install to get Spreadheet like Open Office Calc or MS Excell... Tried Open Office for Mac OSX (using OO on my Windows and Linux boxes). But it looks like it is underdeveloped on MacOSX - autofilter does not work correctly, problems with national fonts, very slow scrolling in Calc - table is redrawn several times until it gets scrolled to the right position. Could you please let me know what open source or proprietary spreadsheet software do you usually use on your Macintoshes ? Do not mention Microsoft, I already know this, now looking for cheaper alternatives. Thanks for any advice! All the best, Viktoras ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
Appleworks should work fine in Rosetta. It creates .xls and .doc files. http://www.apple.com/appleworks/ available for $79 http://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=appleworksNavID_Search=falsesubmit1.x=0submit1.y=0CurDSN=simplecalledfrom=1incimage=on by the way, the REAL excel can be had for about $200 when not purchased in the suite. http://www.smalldog.com/product/12652795 Sorry, this is slightly off-topic, but I know there are many good-willed MacOS users on this list :-) I have just acquired MacBook (MacOSX 10.4.8 Tiger, 1.83 Ghz Intel Core Duo, etc...). Now facing a problem - what software to install to get Spreadheet like Open Office Calc or MS Excell... Tried Open Office for Mac OSX (using OO on my Windows and Linux boxes). But it looks like it is underdeveloped on MacOSX - autofilter does not work correctly, problems with national fonts, very slow scrolling in Calc - table is redrawn several times until it gets scrolled to the right position. Could you please let me know what open source or proprietary spreadsheet software do you usually use on your Macintoshes ? Do not mention Microsoft, I already know this, now looking for cheaper alternatives. Thanks for any advice! All the best, Viktoras -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
Viktoras, Could you please let me know what open source or proprietary spreadsheet software do you usually use on your Macintoshes ? Do not mention Microsoft, I already know this, now looking for cheaper alternatives. Thanks for any advice! Even if you were willing to give Bill Gates your cash, the real Excel is not a universal binary yet. I'd hold off until it is. Nothing like hearing your fans start up and accelerate to a dull roar, and chewing up your battery life... only to have to pay for an upgrade when it's available. I really like NeoOffice. Works a lot prettier and cleaner than OpenOffice. http://www.neooffice.org ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
On 3/24/07, Bill Marriott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really like NeoOffice. Works a lot prettier and cleaner than OpenOffice. http://www.neooffice.org I'm also a NeoOffice user, but only to view the MS stuff people send me. Don't really create anything with it. I fully agree though, it's better than OpenOffice. Still have AppleWorks, using with Rosetta is OK, actually had it up and running earlier today to produce the tabulated results of a speed test between FW400 and USB2 that appeared in a separate post on this list, but AW is getting long in the tooth. You might want to take a look at this. http://www.x-tables.eu/more/overview.html Have no experience with it myself, just did a google search and came up with it. Only €40 and UB, so if you needs are basic it may be suitable. HTH ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
Viktoras wrote: Could you please let me know what open source or proprietary spreadsheet software do you usually use on your Macintoshes ? I've been using ThinkFree Office for years, now in Universal Binary: http://www.thinkfree.com US$49.95 A trial version is available, and the product comes with a RevOnline-style remote backup option at no additional cost. I've found it to perform reasonably well for my needs, certainly above my expectations for the low cost of such a suite. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
Ditto. I use it frequently. Phil Davis Bill Marriott wrote: I really like NeoOffice. Works a lot prettier and cleaner than OpenOffice. http://www.neooffice.org ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: [off-topic] spreadsheet for MacOSX
Try Mariner Calc: not free, but inexpensive, and it is available as universal for OS X intel macs http://www.marinersoftware.com/ sitepage.php?page=14 -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html -Dr. John R. Vokey ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Spreadsheet Type Layout in RunRev?
Hi, I have a stack that requires I have perform arithmetic on columns and rows of numbers. Basically I have to just add up a list of fields and put the answer in another field. One problem is that row can be inserted into the list. I'm trying to figure out the best way of doing this in RunRev, one thing I thought of was to make a row of fields into a group, you could then scan all the fields in the group in order to calculate the total. Any other ideas/suggestions?? Cheers Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet Type Layout in RunRev?
There was a discussion in May this year called: number of columns in a table field which highlighted different ways people are dealing with such table objects (and the limitations with them). The general feeling (I believe) is that the table object in Rev is really quite limited, and for anything more sophisticated people are using grouped fields. However, there seem to be limits mentioned in the discussion above concerning the number of fields that could be grouped before problems occured (something like 2000 columns, I seem to remember). There was also this discussion Newby questions: Using a table field as a spreadsheet (again, in May). Eric's How to Manage Table Fields tutorial may be of interest to you (available from www.sosmartsoftware.com) - it's mentioned in that discussion. Bernard ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet Type Layout in RunRev?
Do the numbers have to be in separate fields rather than one big field? On 14/11/06, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have a stack that requires I have perform arithmetic on columns and rows of numbers. Basically I have to just add up a list of fields and put the answer in another field. One problem is that row can be inserted into the list. I'm trying to figure out the best way of doing this in RunRev, one thing I thought of was to make a row of fields into a group, you could then scan all the fields in the group in order to calculate the total. Any other ideas/suggestions?? Cheers Dave ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet Type Layout in RunRev?
My preference would be to create and work with arrays... but part of your decision boils down to 4 things: Display of tabular data User input, modification of each cell, or copy paste rows, etc Calculation, updating sums, refresh time, complex formulas Triggering the recalc Since most users are familiar with full-app spreadsheets, they can expect a standard that is too high to emulate in Rev. Perhaps the next version 3.0 will have tools for this to work better. Bernard gave you a very good path to follow to get closer to your goal. Jim Ault Las Vegas On 11/14/06 7:25 AM, Bernard Devlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a discussion in May this year called: number of columns in a table field which highlighted different ways people are dealing with such table objects (and the limitations with them). The general feeling (I believe) is that the table object in Rev is really quite limited, and for anything more sophisticated people are using grouped fields. However, there seem to be limits mentioned in the discussion above concerning the number of fields that could be grouped before problems occured (something like 2000 columns, I seem to remember). There was also this discussion Newby questions: Using a table field as a spreadsheet (again, in May). Eric's How to Manage Table Fields tutorial may be of interest to you (available from www.sosmartsoftware.com) - it's mentioned in that discussion. Bernard ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Spreadsheet Type Layout in RunRev?
I've been pounding this one as I too wrote my own tables, sorted titles, variable split columns, etc... And there is a simple solution to all this mumbojumbo of using more than 100 fields! That's like yielding an elephant to kill a mosquito! I've seen table files at work... Some are 1GB, no prob! Obviously reading that is not realistic in rev or any computer for that matter... What you need is a windowed buffered display of your table... You can only display so many cells on screen after all! And each can only have so many rows and lines and there's also a text limit somewhere! So you need scrollbars to go up and down, left and right of the spreadsheet cells... So we imagine 1 big field, x columns of field lists or x by y fields in a scrolling group. The trivial solutions... Except sooner or later you hit the limit! Sooner or later, your field will be too big or you'll have too many fields to adjust to make it workeable. And you can't have multiple alignments per field column (buuh)! And worse, you cant display it all on screen! So what you see is your buffer size... a grid of x by y cells. Your stack shows x columns and y rows. Divide your data array's rows and columns by the displayed grid rows and columns number to get the max value of the scrollbar vertically and horizontally (respectively :). +-+ - |_25/H_||__| A |__|26/I|__| | (note the array position |__||__| + |__|__Field_wo__|__| + |__|_scrollbars_|__| | |_30/H_||_30/J_| V +-+ |--++---|-- a scrollbar control The field(s) don't have a scrollbar... The scrollbars controls move the pointer on your field much like a field does, except when you scroll, you put the data from that window (or xy position) of the array into your spreadsheet field(s). So you see, there is a simple solution for any problem... Learning to program is a great adventure into logic and how to solve complex issue with simple workings... Learning the basics always bring clean solutions to advanced objects though... I leave the script as an exercise - because I want to see other's ideas. But IMOHO, for any unlimited spreadsheet, this is the way to go... Just create the ilusion it's infinite! Anyone who's writen a bird-view video game needs this technique too. Works also for graphic grids, charting, etc... Printing solutions anyone? You could feed serial printers (I imagine you can still find them)... Exporting into Excel or an html browser doesn't get you points (though it gets you through the day quicker and more to everyone's reach and convenience!) Alas rev is not the ultimate destop tool yet. cheers Xavier http://monsieurx.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Spreadsheet Type Layout in RunRev?
Xavier said: What you need is a windowed buffered display of your table... I like your thinking on this Xavier. I think you are right that this sounds like the best way to do this. Bernard ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Newby questions: Using a table field as a spreadsheet
1) My application is a standalone that administers a series of quizzes. Data will be invisibly stored in a separate stack or file. User does not see results. I would like to use a table field that will be located in a separate data stack, and be able to use it like a spreadsheet. I can find no doc pertaining to using table fields like this. Is this possible? 2) I'm trying to learn how to get the data to enter separate cells within the table field. Any given quiz might have 10 to 60 items. There will probably be 10-12 quizzes. It seems to me like a better idea for each quiz to have it's own field/file. 3) Or am I better off using separate tab-delimited fields for each item/variable? Or a custom property? The end intent is to be able to copy and paste into Excel, and then to a stats package. Thank you for any help or guidance, Ben ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Newby questions: Using a table field as a spreadsheet
Hi Ben, Le 5 févr. 06 à 21:59, Ben Bock a écrit : 1) My application is a standalone that administers a series of quizzes. Data will be invisibly stored in a separate stack or file. User does not see results. I would like to use a table field that will be located in a separate data stack, and be able to use it like a spreadsheet. I can find no doc pertaining to using table fields like this. Is this possible? The How to Manage Table Fields tutorial might help you: You will access this tutorial through Tutorials Picker a free plugin that interfaces with the So Smart Software website in order to display all available tutorials stacks directly from the web. You will find it by going to http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/. Revolution/Plugins or Tutorials section. 2) I'm trying to learn how to get the data to enter separate cells within the table field. Any given quiz might have 10 to 60 items. There will probably be 10-12 quizzes. It seems to me like a better idea for each quiz to have it's own field/file. Sure: better maintenance above all. 3) Or am I better off using separate tab-delimited fields for each item/variable? Or a custom property? The end intent is to be able to copy and paste into Excel, and then to a stats package. Tab/tab/return delimited lists are easy to handle :-) Mixed with the previous idea. Best Regards from Paris, Eric Chatonet -- http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Newby questions: Using a table field as a spreadsheet
On 2/5/06 12:59 PM, Ben Bock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) My application is a standalone that administers a series of quizzes. Data will be invisibly stored in a separate stack or file. User does not see results. I would like to use a table field that will be located in a separate data stack, and be able to use it like a spreadsheet. I can find no doc pertaining to using table fields like this. Is this possible? 2) I'm trying to learn how to get the data to enter separate cells within the table field. Any given quiz might have 10 to 60 items. There will probably be 10-12 quizzes. It seems to me like a better idea for each quiz to have it's own field/file. 3) Or am I better off using separate tab-delimited fields for each item/variable? Or a custom property? The end intent is to be able to copy and paste into Excel, and then to a stats package. You might try the approach of building either: a variable with tabs as the itemdel, rather than a stack or file then set the clipboarddata to varTabDelData a regular field with tabs as the itemdel, then set the clipboarddata to field storedData For visual marking, you could populate the field with commas, then get field storedData replace comma with tab in it set the clipboarddata to it If you are storing the answers on the user's computer and will later access them, then set the clipboarddata to url (file:/HD/user/folder/storedData.txt) Of course, if a comma could be in one of your answers, you could use ^ or other as the item delimiter Hope this helps Jim Ault Las Vegas ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: spreadsheet-like tables
First off, what is the best way to present the user with tabular data? I tried the table, and it has lots of problems, at least the way I did it sick grin. Any sample stacks out there for me to study? I had the most trouble allowing the user to edit the data: the appearance of the table went to hell when the user started modifying a field in the table. I would have the data in a standard list field with the tabStops set to make the display look OK. When the user selects a line, pop the different items into separate editable fields. Then have an Apply Edits button that gathers up the edited data and puts it back into the selected line of the data field. HTH, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: spreadsheet-like tables
Ugh. No way to edit values right in the tables? Really? Sigh Sarah Reichelt wrote: First off, what is the best way to present the user with tabular data? I tried the table, and it has lots of problems, at least the way I did it sick grin. Any sample stacks out there for me to study? I had the most trouble allowing the user to edit the data: the appearance of the table went to hell when the user started modifying a field in the table. I would have the data in a standard list field with the tabStops set to make the display look OK. When the user selects a line, pop the different items into separate editable fields. Then have an Apply Edits button that gathers up the edited data and puts it back into the selected line of the data field. HTH, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: spreadsheet-like tables
Ugh. No way to edit values right in the tables? Really? Sigh You can edit directly in the table, but I find it ugly confusing, especially if the data becomes longer than the column width. I would much rather have a dedicated edit field. If you don't want to pull the complete record out, do it one cell at a time, like most spreadsheet programs do. Sarah First off, what is the best way to present the user with tabular data? I tried the table, and it has lots of problems, at least the way I did it sick grin. Any sample stacks out there for me to study? I had the most trouble allowing the user to edit the data: the appearance of the table went to hell when the user started modifying a field in the table. I would have the data in a standard list field with the tabStops set to make the display look OK. When the user selects a line, pop the different items into separate editable fields. Then have an Apply Edits button that gathers up the edited data and puts it back into the selected line of the data field. HTH, Sarah ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: spreadsheet-like tables
Jon wrote: I want to port a simple (!) program that has a database record for each row in a user viewable (and possibly editable) table. The data may have to be sorted in more than one fashion, and some fields may have to have different colored backgrounds or text. Some fields might be editable in the table, while other fields (memos) might be edited in a single field at the bottom, where the current record has the memo contents displayed (I hope this is clearly explained). Given that I have no compatible databases on my Windows system (that I know of!), I may not actually choose to use a database, but perhaps some other approach (text file(s), multiple cards (something I do not understand very well), etc).. So. Two questions. First off, what is the best way to present the user with tabular data? I tried the table, and it has lots of problems, at least the way I did it sick grin. Any sample stacks out there for me to study? I had the most trouble allowing the user to edit the data: the appearance of the table went to hell when the user started modifying a field in the table. If you can live with one limitation, I think the easiest answer is to use Chipp's altHeader plugin. It provides headers for columnar data, allows for resizing of the columns, makes it easy (or automatic - I don't remember) to sort by different columns, etc. Only thing I wanted and didn't find was column re-ordering (i.e. selecting the third column's heading, and drag-and-dropping it to make it now be the fifth column). The limitation is that, as far as I know, you can't have different fields in different colours - though it may be possible to program that yourself. You mentioned memo fields - I'd be inclined to keep them out of the tabular display completely, so that only the current record has its memo field(s) displayed at the bottom. Secondly, are there any simple databases that come with Windows? Any freebie databases that can be (easily?) installed on Windows? Any resource I should have consulted before posting this probably-redundant question? How much data do you have to deal with ? You can go a long way with CSV files (actually, use TABs or some other character that won't appear in your data, not commas, as your separator - makes things much easier), and the speed of text manipulation and searching in Rev will allow this to scale quite a long way. I wouldn't use the data on cards approach - I like to keep data and code separate, and to have the data in a format that can be readily accessed by other tools if needed. You should look at SDB (Serendipity Database-Binary). I have failed utterly to get it to work for me, in spite of trying seriously 3 or 4 times - but I know others have succeed, so it may be just me that thinks differently and can't understand the docs, or my system set-up that is peculiar, or something. (If ever there was a product that needed a detailed step-by-step set of instructions for installing it, SDB is it. I would have a go at writing it - except that I can't figure it out well enough to do it myself :-) So if you try this and succeed - you owe me a write-up on the exact steps you took Alternatively, stretching the definition of simple, install MySQL or PostgreSQL. Free (beware mySQL ceases to be free if your app is a commercial app, in some complicated way), and both come well packaged for Windows, and with lots of books, articles, support available, etc. - but not quite simple. Or pay a modest sum for altSQLite. Or write your own extneral to interface to sqlite. Or . or just use CSV files :-) -- Alex Tweedly http://www.tweedly.net -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/44 - Release Date: 08/07/2005 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: spreadsheet-like tables
thank you, Alex! :) Jon Alex Tweedly wrote: Jon wrote: I want to port a simple (!) program that has a database record for each row in a user viewable (and possibly editable) table. The data may have to be sorted in more than one fashion, and some fields may have to have different colored backgrounds or text. Some fields might be editable in the table, while other fields (memos) might be edited in a single field at the bottom, where the current record has the memo contents displayed (I hope this is clearly explained). Given that I have no compatible databases on my Windows system (that I know of!), I may not actually choose to use a database, but perhaps some other approach (text file(s), multiple cards (something I do not understand very well), etc).. So. Two questions. First off, what is the best way to present the user with tabular data? I tried the table, and it has lots of problems, at least the way I did it sick grin. Any sample stacks out there for me to study? I had the most trouble allowing the user to edit the data: the appearance of the table went to hell when the user started modifying a field in the table. If you can live with one limitation, I think the easiest answer is to use Chipp's altHeader plugin. It provides headers for columnar data, allows for resizing of the columns, makes it easy (or automatic - I don't remember) to sort by different columns, etc. Only thing I wanted and didn't find was column re-ordering (i.e. selecting the third column's heading, and drag-and-dropping it to make it now be the fifth column). The limitation is that, as far as I know, you can't have different fields in different colours - though it may be possible to program that yourself. You mentioned memo fields - I'd be inclined to keep them out of the tabular display completely, so that only the current record has its memo field(s) displayed at the bottom. Secondly, are there any simple databases that come with Windows? Any freebie databases that can be (easily?) installed on Windows? Any resource I should have consulted before posting this probably-redundant question? How much data do you have to deal with ? You can go a long way with CSV files (actually, use TABs or some other character that won't appear in your data, not commas, as your separator - makes things much easier), and the speed of text manipulation and searching in Rev will allow this to scale quite a long way. I wouldn't use the data on cards approach - I like to keep data and code separate, and to have the data in a format that can be readily accessed by other tools if needed. You should look at SDB (Serendipity Database-Binary). I have failed utterly to get it to work for me, in spite of trying seriously 3 or 4 times - but I know others have succeed, so it may be just me that thinks differently and can't understand the docs, or my system set-up that is peculiar, or something. (If ever there was a product that needed a detailed step-by-step set of instructions for installing it, SDB is it. I would have a go at writing it - except that I can't figure it out well enough to do it myself :-) So if you try this and succeed - you owe me a write-up on the exact steps you took Alternatively, stretching the definition of simple, install MySQL or PostgreSQL. Free (beware mySQL ceases to be free if your app is a commercial app, in some complicated way), and both come well packaged for Windows, and with lots of books, articles, support available, etc. - but not quite simple. Or pay a modest sum for altSQLite. Or write your own extneral to interface to sqlite. Or . or just use CSV files :-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
spreadsheet-like tables
I want to port a simple (!) program that has a database record for each row in a user viewable (and possibly editable) table. The data may have to be sorted in more than one fashion, and some fields may have to have different colored backgrounds or text. Some fields might be editable in the table, while other fields (memos) might be edited in a single field at the bottom, where the current record has the memo contents displayed (I hope this is clearly explained). Given that I have no compatible databases on my Windows system (that I know of!), I may not actually choose to use a database, but perhaps some other approach (text file(s), multiple cards (something I do not understand very well), etc).. So. Two questions. First off, what is the best way to present the user with tabular data? I tried the table, and it has lots of problems, at least the way I did it sick grin. Any sample stacks out there for me to study? I had the most trouble allowing the user to edit the data: the appearance of the table went to hell when the user started modifying a field in the table. Secondly, are there any simple databases that come with Windows? Any freebie databases that can be (easily?) installed on Windows? Any resource I should have consulted before posting this probably-redundant question? Thanks Jon ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: 'Spreadsheet' Woes...
Gary, I think you will have to trap keys and call your various cell handlers yourself. If you store the last known cell coordinates and then check them after each rawKeyDown, you can then perform actions if they change. This may not be exactly what you want but hopefully there is enough of an idea to get you going. Cheers, Sarah [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.troz.net/Rev/ On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 02:19 am, Gary Rathbone wrote: I've got my field looking (well nearly) pretty much how I want. It's a field/table with Cell Formatting and Cell Editing. Looks like a spreadsheet... I'm looking for commands such as On EnterCell, On CloseCell, On ExitCell to initiate calculations on other cells And specific cell commands... Eg Assign a script to field tdata On CloseCell tcol,trow --the cell has been changed if tcol=7 then --calculate the sales tax put trow*0.175 into Cell(7,trow) end if end Close Cell Also I'd like to format column 7 to rightalign... Eg Set the ColumnAlign of Column 7 of fld tdata to right Am I expecting too much of this new feature? If so how do I trap changes in 'Cells' so I can write these procedures myself. Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated. Regards Gary Rathbone ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: 'Spreadsheet' Woes...
The most interesting thing I have found of late regarding tables is that when you edit a cell, a closeField message is sent to the stack script. Note that it is NOT sent to ... the card script to the field script or even to the the frontscrip (although there is a closeField handler in the frontScript ???) Instead this closeField message just goes to the stack script. Very strange but good to know as it allowed me to recalc the table like a spreadsheet does. If anyone can explain that it would be a good lesson for me to learn! ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
'Spreadsheet' Woes...
I've got my field looking (well nearly) pretty much how I want. It's a field/table with Cell Formatting and Cell Editing. Looks like a spreadsheet... I'm looking for commands such as On EnterCell, On CloseCell, On ExitCell to initiate calculations on other cells And specific cell commands... Eg Assign a script to field tdata On CloseCell tcol,trow --the cell has been changed if tcol=7 then --calculate the sales tax put trow*0.175 into Cell(7,trow) end if end Close Cell Also I'd like to format column 7 to rightalign... Eg Set the ColumnAlign of Column 7 of fld tdata to right Am I expecting too much of this new feature? If so how do I trap changes in 'Cells' so I can write these procedures myself. Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated. Regards Gary Rathbone ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: 'Spreadsheet' Woes...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:15:25 +0100, Gary Rathbone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've got my field looking (well nearly) pretty much how I want. It's a field/table with Cell Formatting and Cell Editing. Looks like a spreadsheet... I'm looking for commands such as On EnterCell, On CloseCell, On ExitCell to initiate calculations on other cells And specific cell commands... Any pointers would be gratefully appreciated. Sorry I can't help, but I too am waiting for a fully worked example which shows what the 'Table' object can do. I know there is some tricky frontscript code somewhere which controls the beast, but so far the docs don't reveal much. So this is just an Amen, brother! from another potential user. I have a feeling we shouldn't hold our breath on those cell-has-changed messages, but I'm still hoping. Otherwise the whole construct seems pretty limited IMHO. Graham --- Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK France ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: 'Spreadsheet' Woes...
I'm looking for commands such as On EnterCell, On CloseCell, On ExitCell to initiate calculations on other cells Tables are a mysterious beast in Rev. There is a lot of power there but you are on your own to figure out how to engage it. Fortunately, this list is a salvation ! I suggest you download the archive and search for my email address. Jan and Sarah answered a number of questions that I posed which were similar to yours and they were very helpful! My latest project which is a replacement for our Excel timecard is posted at ... http://www.christophercomputers.com/rev/ Feel free to contact me off list. Good luck. ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Spreadsheet Style Display (.mc to .rev)? Can't open...
I didn't mean that you were compressing the stack, I meant that the stack was stored online compressed in binhex (hqx)format; on a Mac you'd drop the file onto Stuffit Expander to decompress it. I'm sure Windows has an equivalent decompressor but I'm not sure what it is. What OS are you running? I am running Windows 98. I have an unzip program to decompress .zip files, but it does not work on your stacks, because they are not in .zip format. You need to get Aladdin Expander Aladdin Home Page...http://www.aladdinsys.com/ Then everything will be cool. -Glen Yates ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Spreadsheet Style Display (.mc to .rev)? Can't open...
--- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 8:11 PM -0800 4/3/2002, Steve L wrote: I have downloaded the file that was recommended here: Jacque Landeman Gay's Pseudotable, which is at http://www.hyperactivesw.com/downloads/pseudtbl.mc.hqx. However, this file is in .mc format, how could this be used/converted to .rev format? Revolution will open any MetaCard stack. Just use the Open Stack menu item to open the file. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] I cannot get either stack to open (pseudtbl.mc or the modified version from their site. It comes up as error: illegal operation. I even redownloaded both stacks to make sure they weren't corrupted during downloading. However, I can open all other stacks without a problem. Does anyone know why I can't open either of these stacks in Rev. Thanks Steve __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet Style Display (.mc to .rev)? Can't open...
Steve L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I cannot get either stack to open (pseudtbl.mc or the modified version from their site. It comes up as error: illegal operation. I even redownloaded both stacks to make sure they weren't corrupted during downloading. However, I can open all other stacks without a problem. Does anyone know why I can't open either of these stacks in Rev. I just downloaded pseudotable.mc.hqx to see if there was a problem, and it came over fine for me. It won't drop onto Rev's icon, but it opened fine using the File-Open menu. The file is binhexed, so make sure it is fully expanded before trying to open it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet Style Display (.mc to .rev)? Can't open...
--- J. Landman Gay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I cannot get either stack to open (pseudtbl.mc or the modified version from their site. It comes up as error: illegal operation. I even redownloaded both stacks to make sure they weren't corrupted during downloading. However, I can open all other stacks without a problem. Does anyone know why I can't open either of these stacks in Rev. I just downloaded pseudotable.mc.hqx to see if there was a problem, and it came over fine for me. It won't drop onto Rev's icon, but it opened fine using the File-Open menu. The file is binhexed, so make sure it is fully expanded before trying to open it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | Hi Jacqueline, I am downloadinf the stack files, just as I would any other download, I am not compressing the file (that I know of); is there anything special I need to be doing? I tried several times, it keeps saying: trying to perform an illegal operation and closes Rev. Like I said, it opens all other stacks without a problem. Thanks Steve __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Spreadsheet Style Display (.mc to .rev)?
At 8:11 PM -0800 4/3/2002, Steve L wrote: I have downloaded the file that was recommended here: Jacque Landeman Gay's Pseudotable, which is at http://www.hyperactivesw.com/downloads/pseudtbl.mc.hqx. However, this file is in .mc format, how could this be used/converted to .rev format? Revolution will open any MetaCard stack. Just use the Open Stack menu item to open the file. -- Jeanne A. E. DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Spreadsheet Style Display
Does Revolution already have a quick or built-in means to display information in a spreadsheet style? This would include rows, columns, headings, vertical and horizontal scroll bars, by-cell editing, etc. (I must admit, I find the Transcript Dictionary search engine misleading. For example, type database or array, and nothing appears, yet there IS information about both. Does anyone have a tips regarding Revolution Documentation?) Thanks in advance for any information. --Dennis F. Kahlbaum --University of Michigan ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How transform a spreadsheet in an array ?
Ludovic: I've a big list like this : Name name1 name2 name3 Data1 1 0 10 Data2 10 1 0 Data3 0 1 10 how transform it in one array ? Geoff: Revolution doesn't support multi-dimension arrays. While the array routines may not support multi-dimension arrays, it is possible to create and manipulate arrays of virtually any dimension. Ludovic's data can be represented as a nine-element array, three lines, each containing three words. To find, for example, the fifth element of the array, one specifies word 2 of line 2 of. To deal with three dimensions one can reference word 2 of line 2 of item 1, etc. If the array data is numeric one can use each character except 0-9 and - . as an itemDelimiter. Each itemDelimiter adds a new dimension to the array. One note: If using words as an array dimension, make sure the array contains NO empty words (ie: put 0 into empty words). Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: How transform a spreadsheet in an array ?
Name name1 name2 name3 Data1 1 0 10 Data2 10 1 0 Data3 0 1 10 Moi:Ludovic's data can be represented as a nine-element array, three lines, each containing three words. Oops! I left out the first field. So it's a twelve-element array: three lines each containing four words (assuming Data1 - Data3 contain no spaces. If that is not the case then restructure the array: Data1,1,0,10 Data2,10,1,0 Data3,0,1,10 and reference it item x of line y of. Rob Cozens CCW, Serendipity Software Company And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three; Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee. from The Triple Foole by John Donne (1572-1631) ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Change a spreadsheet to an array
Message: 4 Ludovic THEBAULT wrote: I've a big list like this : Namename1name2name3 Data11010 Data21010 Data30110 how transform it in one array ? If the spreadsheet is tab-delimited, and in the variable myData on loadMyArray myData global myArray set the itemDelimiter to tab repeat with n = 2 to the number of lines in myData repeat with i = 2 to the number of items in line 1 of myData get item i of line n of myData put it into myArray[item 1 of line n of myData,item n of line 1 of myData] end repeat end repeat end loadMyArray -- from myArray, you can retrieve any data cell by getting myArray[rowName,columnName] -- where rowName is a string like Data1 and columnName is a string like name1 David Epstein ___ use-revolution mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
