Re: How to add couple of dependent drop downs in one form.
We should port this to JQuery as I think it is a useful tool to have. Shouldn't be too hard since I believe the Prototype Class that Anil wrote was originally inspired by a JQuery plugin called Dependent Select by SilVeR (http://plugins.jquery.com/node/11765). There are a couple more examples floating out around on how to do this with JQuery. Another good one that I have seen is the Related Selects plugin by Eric Hynds: http://www.erichynds.com/examples/jquery-related-selects/ https://github.com/ehynds/jquery-related-selects Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 2:49 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Note though that this will not work in trunk which uses jQuery now (instead of Prototype, only in previous releases, R10.04 for instance) Jacques From: Atul Vani atul.v...@hotwaxmedia.com Check these links out, we use this and it works perfectly for any number of dependent dropdowns. http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-how-to-use-dependent-selects-for-managing-country-state-select-box-pair/ http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-dependent-selects-for-prototype/ On Thursday 03 February 2011 12:34 PM, Ravindra Mandre wrote: Hi all, I am facing a problem for adding more than one dependent drop down in one form. For example , I have to add one more dependent dropdown in create new customer form. while in this form a country-state drop down is already there. I found a comment in PartyScreens.xml of Party Manager component which says : (!-- fields for setDependentDropdownValuesJs.ftl, it's a try on generalization but there are still issues. For instance: what if we have 2 couple of dependent dropdowns in the same form? --) , so Is there any way to add more than one drop down. or above issue is Resolved or any other suggestion. Regards Ravindra Mandr -- Thanks Regards Atul Vani Enterprise Software Developer HotWax Media Pvt. Ltd. http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/ We are the Global Leaders in Apache OFBiz, Google 'ofbiz' and see for yourself.
Re: How to add couple of dependent drop downs in one form.
Oops, I haven't seen this. Thanks for pointing it out. On an off-topic note, we need to reduce the size of the Description, From Date, and Thru Date fields a bit on this page as the layout in that first table row gets a bit jacked at different window sizes. I suggest 30, 15, 15 or somewhere around there. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Have you seen getDependentDropdownValues.js and how I used it at https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 ? Jacques From: Ryan Foster cont...@ryanlfoster.com We should port this to JQuery as I think it is a useful tool to have. Shouldn't be too hard since I believe the Prototype Class that Anil wrote was originally inspired by a JQuery plugin called Dependent Select by SilVeR (http://plugins.jquery.com/node/11765). There are a couple more examples floating out around on how to do this with JQuery. Another good one that I have seen is the Related Selects plugin by Eric Hynds: http://www.erichynds.com/examples/jquery-related-selects/ https://github.com/ehynds/jquery-related-selects Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 2:49 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Note though that this will not work in trunk which uses jQuery now (instead of Prototype, only in previous releases, R10.04 for instance) Jacques From: Atul Vani atul.v...@hotwaxmedia.com Check these links out, we use this and it works perfectly for any number of dependent dropdowns. http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-how-to-use-dependent-selects-for-managing-country-state-select-box-pair/ http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-dependent-selects-for-prototype/ On Thursday 03 February 2011 12:34 PM, Ravindra Mandre wrote: Hi all, I am facing a problem for adding more than one dependent drop down in one form. For example , I have to add one more dependent dropdown in create new customer form. while in this form a country-state drop down is already there. I found a comment in PartyScreens.xml of Party Manager component which says : (!-- fields for setDependentDropdownValuesJs.ftl, it's a try on generalization but there are still issues. For instance: what if we have 2 couple of dependent dropdowns in the same form? --) , so Is there any way to add more than one drop down. or above issue is Resolved or any other suggestion. Regards Ravindra Mandr -- Thanks Regards Atul Vani Enterprise Software Developer HotWax Media Pvt. Ltd. http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/ We are the Global Leaders in Apache OFBiz, Google 'ofbiz' and see for yourself.
Re: How to add couple of dependent drop downs in one form.
sure thing. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Right! But this would need more work because the date-time element had yet not size attribute. Could you please create a Jira for that? Thanks Jacques Ryan Foster wrote: Oops, I haven't seen this. Thanks for pointing it out. On an off-topic note, we need to reduce the size of the Description, From Date, and Thru Date fields a bit on this page as the layout in that first table row gets a bit jacked at different window sizes. I suggest 30, 15, 15 or somewhere around there. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Have you seen getDependentDropdownValues.js and how I used it at https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 ? Jacques From: Ryan Foster cont...@ryanlfoster.com We should port this to JQuery as I think it is a useful tool to have. Shouldn't be too hard since I believe the Prototype Class that Anil wrote was originally inspired by a JQuery plugin called Dependent Select by SilVeR (http://plugins.jquery.com/node/11765). There are a couple more examples floating out around on how to do this with JQuery. Another good one that I have seen is the Related Selects plugin by Eric Hynds: http://www.erichynds.com/examples/jquery-related-selects/ https://github.com/ehynds/jquery-related-selects Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 2:49 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Note though that this will not work in trunk which uses jQuery now (instead of Prototype, only in previous releases, R10.04 for instance) Jacques From: Atul Vani atul.v...@hotwaxmedia.com Check these links out, we use this and it works perfectly for any number of dependent dropdowns. http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-how-to-use-dependent-selects-for-managing-country-state-select-box-pair/ http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-dependent-selects-for-prototype/ On Thursday 03 February 2011 12:34 PM, Ravindra Mandre wrote: Hi all, I am facing a problem for adding more than one dependent drop down in one form. For example , I have to add one more dependent dropdown in create new customer form. while in this form a country-state drop down is already there. I found a comment in PartyScreens.xml of Party Manager component which says : (!-- fields for setDependentDropdownValuesJs.ftl, it's a try on generalization but there are still issues. For instance: what if we have 2 couple of dependent dropdowns in the same form? --) , so Is there any way to add more than one drop down. or above issue is Resolved or any other suggestion. Regards Ravindra Mandr -- Thanks Regards Atul Vani Enterprise Software Developer HotWax Media Pvt. Ltd. http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/ We are the Global Leaders in Apache OFBiz, Google 'ofbiz' and see for yourself.
Re: How to add couple of dependent drop downs in one form.
I'll take a look at that this week and see if I can come up with something that will work. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 10:20 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Ryan, Also, while at it, have you no ideas on what we could do for extending the Browse Catalogs/Categories panel without impinging on the main area, an horizontal scroll I guess? Jacques Jacques Le Roux wrote: Right! But this would need more work because the date-time element had yet not size attribute. Could you please create a Jira for that? Thanks Jacques Ryan Foster wrote: Oops, I haven't seen this. Thanks for pointing it out. On an off-topic note, we need to reduce the size of the Description, From Date, and Thru Date fields a bit on this page as the layout in that first table row gets a bit jacked at different window sizes. I suggest 30, 15, 15 or somewhere around there. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Have you seen getDependentDropdownValues.js and how I used it at https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/catalog/control/EditProductPriceRules?productPriceRuleId=9000 ? Jacques From: Ryan Foster cont...@ryanlfoster.com We should port this to JQuery as I think it is a useful tool to have. Shouldn't be too hard since I believe the Prototype Class that Anil wrote was originally inspired by a JQuery plugin called Dependent Select by SilVeR (http://plugins.jquery.com/node/11765). There are a couple more examples floating out around on how to do this with JQuery. Another good one that I have seen is the Related Selects plugin by Eric Hynds: http://www.erichynds.com/examples/jquery-related-selects/ https://github.com/ehynds/jquery-related-selects Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 8, 2011, at 2:49 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Note though that this will not work in trunk which uses jQuery now (instead of Prototype, only in previous releases, R10.04 for instance) Jacques From: Atul Vani atul.v...@hotwaxmedia.com Check these links out, we use this and it works perfectly for any number of dependent dropdowns. http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-how-to-use-dependent-selects-for-managing-country-state-select-box-pair/ http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-dependent-selects-for-prototype/ On Thursday 03 February 2011 12:34 PM, Ravindra Mandre wrote: Hi all, I am facing a problem for adding more than one dependent drop down in one form. For example , I have to add one more dependent dropdown in create new customer form. while in this form a country-state drop down is already there. I found a comment in PartyScreens.xml of Party Manager component which says : (!-- fields for setDependentDropdownValuesJs.ftl, it's a try on generalization but there are still issues. For instance: what if we have 2 couple of dependent dropdowns in the same form? --) , so Is there any way to add more than one drop down. or above issue is Resolved or any other suggestion. Regards Ravindra Mandr -- Thanks Regards Atul Vani Enterprise Software Developer HotWax Media Pvt. Ltd. http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/ We are the Global Leaders in Apache OFBiz, Google 'ofbiz' and see for yourself.
Re: changing themes in flat grey.
I think we are splitting hairs here. I was simply saying that the total screen area (header + footer) was about the same. The header in the new theme is roughly 180px vs. the old theme which is about 160px so, a difference of about 20px. But the footer in the new theme is smaller than the footer in the old theme, so the net result is about the same. I think we can all agree that looking at a modern web application through an 800x600 screen sucks anyway that you look at it, so let's just move on. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 4, 2011, at 11:43 AM, adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: Okay - I understand. Keep in mind that the things we discussed in this thread were good suggestions and I hope they will get implemented. The new Flat Grey theme could benefit from a collapsible main navigation bar, and an optional main navigation column. It would also be nice to tighten up the layout a bit, but not make it as tiny and crowded as the original theme. Hopefully, after some of those changes are made you will warm up to it. -Adrian Quoting BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net: the comparison came fromm Ryan saying why did the changes and I was showing they did not follow what he said. I am willing to drop it. = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com sent the following on 2/4/2011 10:17 AM: I didn't miss the screen comparison. It seems to me we are whipping a dead horse in this thread. I understand you don't like the updated theme - so I zipped up the old one and put it in the theme gallery. You are welcome to continue using the old theme. People who prefer the updated theme can use the updated theme. So, why do we need to keep making comparisons? -Adrian Quoting BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net: Adrian. I have problem with the new layout on the naming and removal of the original theme. all your points are addressed in the new theme so if someone wants it they can choose it. you missed the screen usage compare the one that Ryan provided to the one I provided and there is more data available in the old theme for the same screen space. = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Adrian Crum sent the following on 2/3/2011 9:15 PM: Thanks for the pic BJ! It demonstrates some of the things that we have discussed. Look at the main navigation tabs. Just look at them. Notice how much unused space there is on the right side of the screen. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a visual theme that fixed the horrid looking main navigation tabs, and also had the ability to collapse the main navigation or make it a column on the left side of the screen? ;-) -Adrian On 2/3/2011 8:55 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: oops. guess I can't send images. http://www.businessesnetwork.com/customerSupport/ofbiz/800x600.jpg = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man BJ Freeman sent the following on 2/3/2011 8:45 PM: here is the oldschool 800x600 = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Ryan Foster sent the following on 2/3/2011 10:43 AM: We did design to the minimum. Flat Grey was tested down to IE7 on Windows XP at 800x600. Here is a screen shot. *Ryan L. Foster* 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.commailto:cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.comhttp://ryanlfoster.com On Feb 3, 2011, at 11:26 AM, BJ Freeman wrote: how many companies to you know that go out and get the latest and greatest. most have a 15in 1024x768, that I deal with. and a lot use the new netbooks which have a 10in to 11in 1024x600 should not we design for the minimum standard with the ability to use the newer stuff? = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.comhttp://Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man adrian.c...@sandglass
Re: changing themes in flat grey.
Actually, if you were to calculate total screen real estate and compare pixels of the header, tabs, and footer of the Old School (Old Flat Grey) vs. the header and footer of Dorian Grey (New Flat Grey), I believe there is actually more total workspace area in the new theme. The difference is where those pieces are in relation to the fold on the old vs. new. I do think that it would be be a good idea, however, to add back in to the new theme the ability to collapse the header again. That way, if you are working in a particular application such as the Catalog Manager or Accounting, etc. for an extended period of time and did not have an immediate need for the main application nav, you could collapse it out of the way and free up even more screen space. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 2, 2011, at 1:32 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: ctrl + in a browser, allows larger text plus under accessibility for the oS you can choose larger font, so that is not a biggy to me. however all the extra component tabs at the top goes against the reason they were put at the bottom in the first place, and the real estate. just my 2 cnets = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com sent the following on 2/2/2011 12:08 PM: One of the advantages/disadvantages (depending on your POV) of the old Flat Grey theme was the tiny text and tiny links. Everything was made as small as possible. The updated theme enlarges and opens up things a bit, but at the cost of less work area space. -Adrian Quoting BJ Freeman bjf...@free-man.net: just a note: under freeing up screen space add the tabs that were at the bottom of the screen takes up real estate also. on a 1024X760 screen the menus wrap causing less screen space. when comparing the now Old school to the new flat Grey I have less screen space. = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/31/2011 11:44 AM: The vast majority of end users are only going to setting their Time Zone, Language, and Preferred Theme once. A typical user will set their personal preferences and may never change it again. Since this is information is of a peripheral nature, it was moved to the footer, freeing up more screen space for the more important day-to-day information, and de-cluttering the header to put the focus on navigation. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 31, 2011, at 12:02 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: on my screen only get half a page so don't see the bottom, without scrolling. if there a reason it can't be on the top where the browser shows the header. = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automationhttp://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.comhttp://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/31/2011 9:50 AM: Look at the bottom of the page. All preferences, including Time Zone, Language, and Theme are now in the footer on the Flat Grey theme. /(not sure if everyone can see image attachments on the mailing list, but I have included a screenshot for reference)/ / / // *Ryan L. Foster* 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.commailto:cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.comhttp://ryanlfoster.com On Jan 31, 2011, at 10:22 AM, BJ Freeman wrote: did this get added if so where. once flat grey is added can not see the themes selection.a = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.comhttp://Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
Re: How to pronouce ofbiz
I say O-F-Biz, as in O pen F or BIZ ness Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 3, 2011, at 1:07 PM, Scott Gray wrote: I say O-F-Biz Regards Scott HotWax Media http://www.hotwaxmedia.com On 4/02/2011, at 9:04 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Most say OFF-Biz I think Jacques Wai wrote: Hello All, Is there a standard for pronouncing ofbiz? Is it O-F-Biz or is it OFF-Biz? Thanks
Re: How to pronouce ofbiz
I believe Jira should be pronounced with a short i sound, as in Godzilla, which is where the name originated from. http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRA/JIRA+FAQ Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Feb 3, 2011, at 1:45 PM, adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: Me too. I've heard it said both ways. Same thing with Jira. Some say jie-rah, some say jeer-rah. -Adrian Quoting Scott Gray scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com: I say O-F-Biz Regards Scott HotWax Media http://www.hotwaxmedia.com On 4/02/2011, at 9:04 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: Most say OFF-Biz I think Jacques Wai wrote: Hello All, Is there a standard for pronouncing ofbiz? Is it O-F-Biz or is it OFF-Biz? Thanks
Re: changing themes in flat grey.
Look at the bottom of the page. All preferences, including Time Zone, Language, and Theme are now in the footer on the Flat Grey theme.(not sure if everyone can see image attachments on the mailing list, but I have included a screenshot for reference) Ryan L. Foster801.671.0769cont...@ryanlfoster.comryanlfoster.com On Jan 31, 2011, at 10:22 AM, BJ Freeman wrote:did this get added if so where.once flat grey is added can not see the themes selection.a=BJ FreemanStrategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/Systems Integrator-- Glad to AssistChat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
Re: changing themes in flat grey.
The vast majority of end users are only going to setting their Time Zone, Language, and Preferred Theme once. A typical user will set their personal preferences and may never change it again. Since this is information is of a peripheral nature, it was moved to the footer, freeing up more screen space for the more important day-to-day information, and de-cluttering the header to put the focus on navigation. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 31, 2011, at 12:02 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: on my screen only get half a page so don't see the bottom, without scrolling. if there a reason it can't be on the top where the browser shows the header. = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Ryan Foster sent the following on 1/31/2011 9:50 AM: Look at the bottom of the page. All preferences, including Time Zone, Language, and Theme are now in the footer on the Flat Grey theme. /(not sure if everyone can see image attachments on the mailing list, but I have included a screenshot for reference)/ / / // *Ryan L. Foster* 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.commailto:cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.comhttp://ryanlfoster.com On Jan 31, 2011, at 10:22 AM, BJ Freeman wrote: did this get added if so where. once flat grey is added can not see the themes selection.a = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.comhttp://Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man
Re: OFBIZ: The road ahead RE Ecommerce
Stay tuned Mike, I have two in the works that will be released within the next month. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 27, 2011, at 8:37 AM, Mike wrote: I'd sure like to see more ecommerce themes. Does anyone have any they would like to share? On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, With the release of 10.04 we come to a point in time where we can think about the future of the ecommerce application. In order to draw up a plan for future releases we would like have your input. What do you feel is important? What should be in, what should be removed, what can be improved? Please join us in this discussion about the Accounting application. Regards, Pierre
Re: What happeded to the real flatgrey theme?
While I appreciate the spirited debate, where were these voices over two weeks ago when Adrian and I can began working on refreshing the theme (and that is what it was, not a redesign, not a new theme, not a complete overhaul. We changed the header and footer, and made a few CSS changes - that's it). This wasn't done in a vacuum and it wasn't done without discussion and debate. We didn't get together in some secret back-room deal and decide Hey let's get rid of Flat Grey and piss everyone off. Adrian proposed updating the theme to the mailing list back on the 29th of December, asked for feedback, suggestions and participation, and we went to work. if you ask me, 24 days is a really big vacuum for a couple of CSS changes. Also, if you look at the JIRA issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092, there were 9 screenshots and 8 separate patches posted between the 4th and the 14th of January. Anyone could have grabbed those and monitored the progress. I agree that there should be backwards compatibility, I agree that there should stability, but for heaven's sake, it's just a theme. Simply blindly following a backwards compatibility mantra gives you outdated, useless software that was cutting edge 10 years ago, but is now the butt of developer jokes... I'm looking at you IE6. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Yeah you do...live in a vacuum. IMHO and experience the PMC does live in a vacuum. As the saying goes...you guys don't have a clue. Just my 2 cents. Ruth On 1/20/11 9:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: That's not true. Every change is discussed and debated. The OFBiz developers and the PMC don't live in a vacuum - they have production systems to maintain. It is silly to think they would not consider those production systems when proposing changes. -Adrian --- On Thu, 1/20/11, BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net wrote: you will find that the ofbiz developer group first priority is to change before considering the effect on production systemm using offbiz. something I lobby against, but has little effect. so I have a system to accomplish this regardless of what they do. = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.comhttp://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Mike sent the following on 1/20/2011 3:38 PM: But why delete it? Alot of folks learned ofbiz on flatgrey, and their employees are used to it. At least keep it around as flatgrey_old. On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Crumadri...@hlmksw.com wrote: That theme was starting to look old, so the developer community decided to update it. If you prefer the old version of the theme, you are welcome to replace the new one with it. -Adrian On 1/20/2011 3:21 PM, Mike wrote: I just loaded trunk and discovered that the normal flatgrey theme has been completely redefined. What happened? I thought it was actually the best theme that was very well organized. Is there a way to get it back?
Re: What happeded to the real theme?
As I stated before in previous conversations, I don't care whether we keep the original, keep the updated, or make a new theme. As the lone UxD voice on this mailing list majority of the time, IMO we should not have a bunch of themes maintained in the trunk and keep adding more every time something new or updated comes along. The reason that theming was created in the first place was so that functionality was not tied to look and feel. Let's pull all but 2-3 out max and archive the rest on the Wiki. If anyone wants a theme, they can get it there. Adding a theme literally only takes a few minutes and be done on the fly on a running OFBiz installation. You've got to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 21, 2011, at 2:11 AM, Erwan de FERRIERES wrote: Le 21/01/2011 09:48, BJ Freeman a écrit : as far as flatgrey I am with mike. keep the original and make the updated one flatgreyII. Create a jira issue, and add it your patch if you want if back. We can also start a discussion on this base. Anyway, as it was said before, books are based on stable versions, 9.04 or 10.04 in which is included the old flatgrey. So there is no harm done from this point. One more thing, how can one be surprised if things are changing and he is not suscribing to dev and commit lists ? -- Erwan de FERRIERES www.nereide.biz
Re: What happeded to the real flatgrey theme?
Really Ruth? Really? That is absolutely ridiculous. I am not a committer or a PMC member. I am an outsider individual contributor with an active interest in moving the project forward. There is not a single committed line of code in the whole framework with my name directly attached to it, but I yet over the years I have still managed to make some key contributions to the project through patches, discussions, collaborations, design etc. such as the BizznessTime theme, the redesign of the public facing website, one page checkout, the Dropping Crumbs theme, the Flat Grey theme... my list is pretty long. So instead in being abrasive and disrespectful, why don't you try doing what I do. Treat the other members of this community with respect, communicate frankly and openly, and accept feedback, criticism and collaboration without getting defensive and insulting people. I consider people like Jacques, Adrian, Bruno, Anil, and Jacopo my friends and colleagues and I seem to have no problem at all getting them to listen to me. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 21, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Ryan: Get real. Not a single commiter (with the exception of Jacques and BJ - who isn't a commiter - I don't think) listens to anyone from the outside. Personally, I stand by my other comment: You guys don't have a clue. Here's another saying that I find useful: If its not broke, don't fix it. That means that just because something is 10 years old, it is not necessarily obsolete. Best Regards, Ruth On 1/21/11 4:33 AM, Ryan Foster wrote: While I appreciate the spirited debate, where were these voices over two weeks ago when Adrian and I can began working on refreshing the theme (and that is what it was, not a redesign, not a new theme, not a complete overhaul. We changed the header and footer, and made a few CSS changes - that's it). This wasn't done in a vacuum and it wasn't done without discussion and debate. We didn't get together in some secret back-room deal and decide Hey let's get rid of Flat Grey and piss everyone off. Adrian proposed updating the theme to the mailing list back on the 29th of December, asked for feedback, suggestions and participation, and we went to work. if you ask me, 24 days is a really big vacuum for a couple of CSS changes. Also, if you look at the JIRA issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092, there were 9 screenshots and 8 separate patches posted between the 4th and the 14th of January. Anyone could have grabbed those and monitored the progress. I agree that there should be backwards compatibility, I agree that there should stability, but for heaven's sake, it's just a theme. Simply blindly following a backwards compatibility mantra gives you outdated, useless software that was cutting edge 10 years ago, but is now the butt of developer jokes... I'm looking at you IE6. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Yeah you do...live in a vacuum. IMHO and experience the PMC does live in a vacuum. As the saying goes...you guys don't have a clue. Just my 2 cents. Ruth On 1/20/11 9:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: That's not true. Every change is discussed and debated. The OFBiz developers and the PMC don't live in a vacuum - they have production systems to maintain. It is silly to think they would not consider those production systems when proposing changes. -Adrian --- On Thu, 1/20/11, BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net wrote: you will find that the ofbiz developer group first priority is to change before considering the effect on production systemm using offbiz. something I lobby against, but has little effect. so I have a system to accomplish this regardless of what they do. = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.comhttp://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Mike sent the following on 1/20/2011 3:38 PM: But why delete it? Alot of folks learned ofbiz on flatgrey, and their employees are used to it. At least keep it around as flatgrey_old. On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Crumadri...@hlmksw.com wrote: That theme was starting to look old, so the developer community decided to update it. If you prefer the old version of the theme, you are welcome to replace the new one with it. -Adrian On 1/20/2011 3:21 PM, Mike wrote: I just loaded trunk and discovered that the normal flatgrey theme has been completely redefined. What happened? I thought it was actually the best theme that was very well organized. Is there a way to get it back?
Re: What happeded to the real flatgrey theme?
Here's another saying that I find useful: If its not broke, don't fix it. That means that just because something is 10 years old, it is not necessarily obsolete. It was never suggested that the Flat Grey Theme was broken or obsolete, just that it could stand a refresh. I can site numerous studies that show that how something looks affects how it is perceived, but just a take a look at http://www.alistapart.com/articles/indefenseofeyecandy Having a theme that looks like it hasn't been touched in years affects the perception of the project as a whole. Think about it; would you buy a Ferrari engine if it was inside a Prius body frame? Can you simply just sew a Gucci label onto a t-shirt you bought from Walmart and sell for it $500? Like it or not, perception and presentation go a long way toward credibility. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 21, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Ryan: Get real. Not a single commiter (with the exception of Jacques and BJ - who isn't a commiter - I don't think) listens to anyone from the outside. Personally, I stand by my other comment: You guys don't have a clue. Here's another saying that I find useful: If its not broke, don't fix it. That means that just because something is 10 years old, it is not necessarily obsolete. Best Regards, Ruth On 1/21/11 4:33 AM, Ryan Foster wrote: While I appreciate the spirited debate, where were these voices over two weeks ago when Adrian and I can began working on refreshing the theme (and that is what it was, not a redesign, not a new theme, not a complete overhaul. We changed the header and footer, and made a few CSS changes - that's it). This wasn't done in a vacuum and it wasn't done without discussion and debate. We didn't get together in some secret back-room deal and decide Hey let's get rid of Flat Grey and piss everyone off. Adrian proposed updating the theme to the mailing list back on the 29th of December, asked for feedback, suggestions and participation, and we went to work. if you ask me, 24 days is a really big vacuum for a couple of CSS changes. Also, if you look at the JIRA issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092, there were 9 screenshots and 8 separate patches posted between the 4th and the 14th of January. Anyone could have grabbed those and monitored the progress. I agree that there should be backwards compatibility, I agree that there should stability, but for heaven's sake, it's just a theme. Simply blindly following a backwards compatibility mantra gives you outdated, useless software that was cutting edge 10 years ago, but is now the butt of developer jokes... I'm looking at you IE6. Ryan L. Foster 801.671.0769 cont...@ryanlfoster.com ryanlfoster.com On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Yeah you do...live in a vacuum. IMHO and experience the PMC does live in a vacuum. As the saying goes...you guys don't have a clue. Just my 2 cents. Ruth On 1/20/11 9:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: That's not true. Every change is discussed and debated. The OFBiz developers and the PMC don't live in a vacuum - they have production systems to maintain. It is silly to think they would not consider those production systems when proposing changes. -Adrian --- On Thu, 1/20/11, BJ Freemanbjf...@free-man.net wrote: you will find that the ofbiz developer group first priority is to change before considering the effect on production systemm using offbiz. something I lobby against, but has little effect. so I have a system to accomplish this regardless of what they do. = BJ Freeman Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52 Specialtymarket.comhttp://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Mike sent the following on 1/20/2011 3:38 PM: But why delete it? Alot of folks learned ofbiz on flatgrey, and their employees are used to it. At least keep it around as flatgrey_old. On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Crumadri...@hlmksw.com wrote: That theme was starting to look old, so the developer community decided to update it. If you prefer the old version of the theme, you are welcome to replace the new one with it. -Adrian On 1/20/2011 3:21 PM, Mike wrote: I just loaded trunk and discovered that the normal flatgrey theme has been completely redefined. What happened? I thought it was actually the best theme that was very well organized. Is there a way to get it back?
Re: demo store look and feel
Legal or not, in my opinion copying the look and feel of a direct competitor such as Magento is ethically gray at best, downright shady at worst. I definitely agree with Christopher that the demo store looks tired compared to Magento's but simply copying their default theme doesn't speak much to our project's credibility. The OFBiz community has more than enough talent to analyze what the the Magento front-end does well and duplicate that without copying their look and feel screen for screen. Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Mar 26, 2010, at 9:50 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: google case law look and feel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/int-prop/software-copyright.html http://www.law.berkeley.edu/journals/btlj/articles/vol4/Wrenn/HTML/text.html This was a complex decision in which the copyright infringement claims for the various elements of the desktop were thrown out on a variety of grounds. One important basis for the ruling was the court's finding that the appropriate standard to apply was whether the two GUI presentations were virtually identical, whereas Apple had argued that the appropriate standard was substantial similarity. Computer programs manifest themselves in any number of ways. 10 Similarly, the term look and feel, also known as total concept and feel, has been used by copyright law in a number of contexts. 11 Applied to computer software, it has been used in reference to the look and feel of written program instructions 12 as well as the look and feel of a program's audiovisual displays. 13 This comment is concerned only with the latter. This section will describe the technology at issue and consider it within its market context. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Linkedin http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=key=1237480locale=en_UStrk=tab_pro Scott Gray sent the following on 3/26/2010 7:55 PM: Reference? On 26/03/2010, at 7:04 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: from past case law, with zerox, microsoft, apple. look and feel can be copyrighted. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Linkedin http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=key=1237480locale=en_UStrk=tab_pro Scott Gray sent the following on 3/26/2010 5:39 PM: I don't think there is a problem with copying the visual aspects of another application but you absolutely couldn't copy (or really even look at) any of their code because of the license. Regards Scott HotWax Media http://www.hotwaxmedia.com On 25/03/2010, at 10:37 PM, Christopher Snow wrote: My question was more along the lines of: 'Would a rip of magento look and feel be accepted into trunk?' BJ Freeman wrote: sure just create a theme. or take a couple from the backend and make them for ecommerce. = BJ Freeman http://bjfreeman.elance.com Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=93 Specialtymarket.com http://www.specialtymarket.com/ Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist Chat Y! messenger: bjfr33man Linkedin http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=key=1237480locale=en_UStrk=tab_pro Christopher Snow sent the following on 3/25/2010 4:42 PM: The ofbiz demo store looks very tired compared to stores such as magento commerce demo (http://demo.magentocommerce.com/) Has anyone considered copying magento's look and feel for ofbiz? Many thanks, Chris
Re: css problem with ftl ????
Don't forget this hack for IE as well, otherwise Ruth's solution will not work:
body {
text-align: center;
}
#wrapper {
text-align: left;
width: 952px;
margin: 0 auto;
}
Without centering you body text and then left aligning your wrapper text, your
container will flush to the left on IE6. No logical reason for this, but its
standard operating procedure for a fixed width layout.
Ryan Foster
HotWax Media
801.671.0769
ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com
On Jan 20, 2010, at 1:18 AM, Info Olagos wrote:
Thanks Ruth for all your help.
I know what to do the next evenings
Regards,
Heidi
2010/1/20 Ruth Hoffman rhoff...@aesolves.com
oops..you don't need all that extra stuff for your #wrapper css...see
below:
Ruth Hoffman wrote:
5) Forget about trying to figure this out and center your wrapper this
way:
#wrapper {
width:952px;
margin:0px auto; -- note the use of only 1 auto
text-align:left;border: none; --- also, I use none (for
border-style vs. 0 for width)
background-color: #BBB;
}
Hope that helps.
Ruth
Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword myofbiz
ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com
Adrian Crum wrote:
I agree with Scott. The web server doesn't care what the content is - it
is just sending out streams of characters. It doesn't know if it's sending
auto margin or any other set of characters.
-Adrian
Scott Gray wrote:
css files are interpreted by the browser, not by the server. The only
way you could have a different end result is if the css files or the
generated html is different.
Regards
Scott
On 19/01/2010, at 3:20 PM, Info Olagos wrote:
Hi Scott,
The css files are exactly the same. (copied them)
The html file is the same but generated via xml and ftl.
The css file with the ftl on the tomcat doesn't react on the auto
keyword
of the margin 0px tag.
Heidi
2010/1/19 Scott Gray scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com
Hi Heidi
I can think of no reason why you should see differences, all I can
suggest
is that you take a diff of the html source from each and compare them
for
differences. If they are the same then double check that the css
files are
also the same from each.
Regards
Scott
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
On 19/01/2010, at 1:43 AM, Info Olagos wrote:
Hello,
I have a very strange problem.
I can only imagine that it is dependent on the FTL.
This is my page on the apache server. There is no problem. All things
are
beautiful centered.
http://www.olagos.eu/index_d.html
OK the links to the images are not ok at the moment. But you see that
here
it is loaded in the center, so that is perfect.
If i load the same files from the embedded tomcat, i have a problem.
It
is
to say that the container is not put in the center but at the left.
The
problem is in the word auto on the wrapper tag in the css file.
This
word auto is not recognized if i generate the html file from within
a
ftl
file.
Have a look at the result in :
http://www.olagos.eu/ecommerce/control/main
Anyone an idea on a bug on Freemarker language level. ???
regards,
Heidi
Re: not serving a particular browser version
There are lots of ways to detect browsers using javascript or conditional statements, but IMHO your plan seems to me to be a very bad approach, especially on an ecommerce site. You are essentially turning away the largest customer base at the door (like it or not, IE7 still has the largest browser market share). Not many users are going to download and install a new browser if they don't have it already just to buy a shirt, or a pair of shoes, etc. when there are a thousand other sites selling exactly the same thing that do support IE7. You are much better off creating an IE7 specific stylesheet and using a conditional statement to attach it to the page only when the user is using IE7: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537512%28VS.85%29.aspx Or a quick and dirty method if you want to use only one stylesheet is to use javascript to detect the browser and OS and create browser specific styling in your main stylesheet. This method allows you to do this without hacks, so your CSS will still validate against standards: http://rafael.adm.br/css_browser_selector/ http://github.com/rafaelp/css_browser_selector Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Oct 19, 2009, at 11:37 PM, aswath narayana wrote: Any ideas on this... My ecommerce pages are very bad in IE7. Hence, I don't want to support IE7. Where are the hooks to provide this kind of check? Thanks a lot. Aswath On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM, aswath narayana aswath.satras...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I don't want to support IE7, so I want to display a message to the user saying 'use IE8, firefox etc.' How can this be done Regards -Aswath
Re: not serving a particular browser version
Be careful just quoting statistics without context. Numbers can tell any story you want them too if you approach them from the right angle. W3 Schools browser stats are a bit biased since their visitors are generally more tech savvy than the average user. There are other numbers that tell a different story: http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php http://gs.statcounter.com/ http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2009/March/browser.php http://marketshare.hitslink.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0 I stand by my original statement. Saying you don't want to support IE7 is just a arbitrary as saying I don't want to serve customers that wear blue shirts, or I don't want to serve customers like to watch football... Telling customers to not use IE7 is just as bad as what some developer's used to do 10 years ago when they would put statements on their websites saying things like This site is best viewed using Internet Explorer with a 1024x768 screen resolution. Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Oct 20, 2009, at 2:53 PM, BJ Freeman wrote: here is some statistics. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp aswath narayana sent the following on 10/20/2009 2:04 AM: -...@ofbiz.apache.org Thanks for all the responses. I was thinking that it could be done in a Filter, maybe use the ContextFilter. Hopefully it is a good place to do the check. Thanks, -Aswath On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Raj Saini rajsa...@gmail.com wrote: You will need to do it on very beginning of every page. header.ftl is the place you can put your code. header.ftl is part of the theme for 9.04 and trunk. Thanks, Raj aswath narayana wrote: Any ideas on this... My ecommerce pages are very bad in IE7. Hence, I don't want to support IE7. Where are the hooks to provide this kind of check? Thanks a lot. Aswath On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:08 PM, aswath narayana aswath.satras...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I don't want to support IE7, so I want to display a message to the user saying 'use IE8, firefox etc.' How can this be done Regards -Aswath -- BJ Freeman http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation http://bjfreeman.elance.com http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=key=1237480locale=en_UStrk=tab_pro Systems Integrator.
Re: Default theme ?
I'll let you have the last on this, as we are in complete agreement on those points. You are right about one thing definitely, a lot of your very valid concerns about the ecommerce web store OOTB have been lost in the noise. Anil and his group (of which I have been a part of), have been making small, incremental improvements to the ecommerce front-end, but I would love to see the kind of awesome community collaboration that drove the 9.04 release. Between the design collaboration with Ean and his guys, and Hans, Jacques, Bruno and so many others pitching in on the dev side, we ended up with a public facing site, documentation site, nightly builds and logs site, and demo application site that was cohesive, consistent, modern, and relevant. People took notice, and they were impressed. In fact, the only thing missing from all this was a polished, re-designed, store front demo. We have beat this to death. I think we as a community need to say now let's pull the trigger. Redesign the ecommerce front-end. Make a big change. Make people notice. To quote Forrest Gump (in my best rural Alabama southern drawl): And that's really all I got to say about that. Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Oct 15, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hi Ryan: Not that I need to get in the last word... I like your tag lines! Your design points are valid and, for what it is worth, are now new data points for my consideration going forward. I'm all about innovation. My original point was not that innovation, progress or change for that matter isn't good. My original point - which got lost in the noise - was that building something and then deploying that something without thorough testing is not good. In fact, the consequences of doing that in this very competitive market, could be disastrous. First impressions whether we like it or not, are lasting. And when seemingly simple things don't work as one would expect - for example on the ecommerce web store OOTB - that is not good. Anyhow, I think we beat this to death. Thanks for the discussion. Best Regards, Ruth Ryan Foster wrote: Inline... Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Oct 14, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hello Ryan: Thanks so much for taking the time to inform the list. I personally think that front-end website design and implementation is far more difficult to master then is commonly acknowledged. I applaud your efforts. At no time was I trying to disparage or dismiss any of the OFBiz work that you or your colleagues have contributed. No offense taken. Like I said, I was just trying to offer some additional insight into the discussion. Please see my other comments inline: Ryan Foster wrote: Since my colleagues and I were largely responsible for the initial design of BizznessTime, which borrows very heavily from Brainfood's public facing site design (thanks guys!), I feel a certain amount of obligation to defend my position. Let me first start off by saying thank you all very much for this discussion on user interface in general and for the feedback on the BizznessTime theme. I sometimes feel like a lone wolf in a sea of developers immensely more talented than me when it comes to back-end programming, so I think a small amount of front-end discussion is refreshing. I take a huge amount of pride in my work, and I welcome any and all feedback, positive or negative, that will allow me to enhance the user experience IMO, the theme concept is an excellent addition to OFBiz. Secondly, many of the key elements of the design were clearly and carefully thought out, and are based on the work, research, and testing of respected organizations and individuals in user experience and interaction design: Obviously the design was clearly and carefully thought out. That was never in question. Again, I applaud your efforts. Thank you. In regards to the school of thought that all of the important content should be above the fold and that users shouldn't be required, do not like to scroll, will not scroll, etc; there has been extensive research that tends to suggest that this school of thought is outdated. Jacob Nielsen discussed this back in 1997 (!). See the following links for support: Thanks for the references. I have not seen any of these specifically, although I have seen other statistical reports that are all over the map as far as analyzing results. Just an FYI: All of the content writers and site designers that I work with insist that best practice is to have the most compelling information above the fold. These people are in the trenches day- in and day-out and are not selling a service. Just another data point. Yes, important information should near the top of the page, I am not disputing this. What I am saying is There is no fold
Re: Default theme ?
Inline... Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Oct 14, 2009, at 3:12 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hello Ryan: Thanks so much for taking the time to inform the list. I personally think that front-end website design and implementation is far more difficult to master then is commonly acknowledged. I applaud your efforts. At no time was I trying to disparage or dismiss any of the OFBiz work that you or your colleagues have contributed. No offense taken. Like I said, I was just trying to offer some additional insight into the discussion. Please see my other comments inline: Ryan Foster wrote: Since my colleagues and I were largely responsible for the initial design of BizznessTime, which borrows very heavily from Brainfood's public facing site design (thanks guys!), I feel a certain amount of obligation to defend my position. Let me first start off by saying thank you all very much for this discussion on user interface in general and for the feedback on the BizznessTime theme. I sometimes feel like a lone wolf in a sea of developers immensely more talented than me when it comes to back-end programming, so I think a small amount of front-end discussion is refreshing. I take a huge amount of pride in my work, and I welcome any and all feedback, positive or negative, that will allow me to enhance the user experience IMO, the theme concept is an excellent addition to OFBiz. Secondly, many of the key elements of the design were clearly and carefully thought out, and are based on the work, research, and testing of respected organizations and individuals in user experience and interaction design: Obviously the design was clearly and carefully thought out. That was never in question. Again, I applaud your efforts. Thank you. In regards to the school of thought that all of the important content should be above the fold and that users shouldn't be required, do not like to scroll, will not scroll, etc; there has been extensive research that tends to suggest that this school of thought is outdated. Jacob Nielsen discussed this back in 1997 (!). See the following links for support: Thanks for the references. I have not seen any of these specifically, although I have seen other statistical reports that are all over the map as far as analyzing results. Just an FYI: All of the content writers and site designers that I work with insist that best practice is to have the most compelling information above the fold. These people are in the trenches day-in and day-out and are not selling a service. Just another data point. Yes, important information should near the top of the page, I am not disputing this. What I am saying is There is no fold, and there hasn't been one for quite some time. This term was ported from newspaper print design in an attempt to explain a new medium and technology in terms that were familiar to designers entering this new media arena. But the internet is not new anymore, and between Rich Media enabled mobile phones, integrated/on demand television, kiosk displays, laptops, and 42-inch cinema screen monitors, it is simply not relevant to modern web design and development anymore. Honestly, between online websites, news portals, cross-channel aggregation, bloggers, and RSS feeds, I am not sure that newspapers even use the term above the fold anymore! :) FYI: Last time I checked, content writing and web design were service based businesses. I am also currently closing out a 15 hour day of designing/building websites and writing content for my clients, so I think that qualifies me as being in the trenches. http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9712a.html http://blog.clicktale.com/2006/12/23/unfolding-the-fold/ http://blog.clicktale.com/2007/10/05/clicktale-scrolling-research-report-v20-part-1-visibility-and-scroll-reach/ http://blog.clicktale.com/2007/12/04/clicktale-scrolling-research-report-v20-part-2-visitor-attention-and-web-page-exposure/ http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/08/02/utilizing-the-cut-off-look-to-encourage-users-to-scroll/ http://www.boxesandarrows.com/view/blasting-the-myth-of Next, as far as the applications drop down menu, this concept is again based on modern web trends and current research. Companies such as Target, Walmart, Microsoft, OfficeMax, OfficeDepot, EMC, MTV, Ruby on Rails, etc. use so called Mega Dropdowns in their sites and applications. Our friends in the community over at Alexander Interactive have been cited numerous times for the navigation they developed for ActionEnvelope. I agree that showing the menu on hover rather than on click would be an enhancement, but I also don't think that having to click is a bad thing either. Again, see the following resources: It remains to be seen just how successful the Mega Dropdowns are. Just because Target, Microsoft and Walmart use them, doesn't mean they work
Re: Default theme ?
Since my colleagues and I were largely responsible for the initial design of BizznessTime, which borrows very heavily from Brainfood's public facing site design (thanks guys!), I feel a certain amount of obligation to defend my position. Let me first start off by saying thank you all very much for this discussion on user interface in general and for the feedback on the BizznessTime theme. I sometimes feel like a lone wolf in a sea of developers immensely more talented than me when it comes to back-end programming, so I think a small amount of front-end discussion is refreshing. I take a huge amount of pride in my work, and I welcome any and all feedback, positive or negative, that will allow me to enhance the user experience. Secondly, many of the key elements of the design were clearly and carefully thought out, and are based on the work, research, and testing of respected organizations and individuals in user experience and interaction design: In regards to the school of thought that all of the important content should be above the fold and that users shouldn't be required, do not like to scroll, will not scroll, etc; there has been extensive research that tends to suggest that this school of thought is outdated. Jacob Nielsen discussed this back in 1997(!). See the following links for support: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9712a.html http://blog.clicktale.com/2006/12/23/unfolding-the-fold/ http://blog.clicktale.com/2007/10/05/clicktale-scrolling-research-report-v20-part-1-visibility-and-scroll-reach/ http://blog.clicktale.com/2007/12/04/clicktale-scrolling-research-report-v20-part-2-visitor-attention-and-web-page-exposure/ http://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2006/08/02/utilizing-the-cut-off-look-to-encourage-users-to-scroll/ http://www.boxesandarrows.com/view/blasting-the-myth-of Next, as far as the applications drop down menu, this concept is again based on modern web trends and current research. Companies such as Target, Walmart, Microsoft, OfficeMax, OfficeDepot, EMC, MTV, Ruby on Rails, etc. use so called Mega Dropdowns in their sites and applications. Our friends in the community over at Alexander Interactive have been cited numerous times for the navigation they developed for ActionEnvelope. I agree that showing the menu on hover rather than on click would be an enhancement, but I also don't think that having to click is a bad thing either. Again, see the following resources: http://www.uipattern.com/mega-drop-downs/ http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-dropdown-menus.html http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/03/30/mega-drop-down-menus/ http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1647-mega-drop-down-navigation-at-basecamp-and-rails-guides-site http://guides.rubyonrails.org/ Finally, as far as the statement lets not forget who our audience is, I am acutely aware of who are audience is. We have developed several client branded themes based on the BizznessTime theme, and have received very positive feedback. When our clients are happy, I am happy. You are right that fancier isn't always better, there is research suggesting that doesn't matter. It may not be better, but people think that it is: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/indefenseofeyecandy http://www.consumerwebwatch.org/news/report3_credibilityresearch/stanfordPTL.pdf http://ist.psu.edu/faculty_pages/jjansen/academic/pres/chi2007/jansen_branding_of_search_engines.pdf http://sigchi.org/chi97/proceedings/paper/nt.htm http://www.experiencedynamics.com/sites/default/files/spillers-emotiondesign-proceedings.pdf I do agree with many points that have been made so far, and again, I appreciate the feedback. The font-size is a little too big. The padding in and around the inputs and submit buttons can be dialed back a bit. I am working on a patch right now that incorporates this feedback, as well as additional feedback and discoveries from the themes we have built based on the original BizznessTime theme. I apologize for the very long-winded email, but I just wanted to give the community some insight into my thought process and design methodologies. I hope this helps the discussion. Thanks, Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Oct 13, 2009, at 8:09 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hi Tim: I fully understand your point of view and the constraints we all labor under. Whether the old theme sucks or not is not in question here. First question I have for you is what guidelines are you referring to? Secondly, why should a new user have to change a theme in order to use OFBiz applications. If, as you say its easy to change a theme, then it should be incumbent on the knowledgeable experienced OFBiz user to change themes and not the new user. New users have enough on their plate just learning how the applications work. Thirdly, please don't throw around its easy to do something without siting references. You insult my
Re: FYI - problems rendering search results
Jacques, I believe Ruth is referring issues in the ecommerce demo in this string rather than issues with any particular back office theme (is that correct Ruth?). Anil is leading an initiative currently to clean up a lot of these user facing components by removing deprecated elements in the markup, consolidate and simplify styles and bring the markup up to more modern web standards that accurately reflect Best Practices that have been established in regards to HTML and CSS. As this is currently an in progress initiative, I imagine that there will be bugs/issues in the layout and Freemarker templates and stylesheets are worked on. I don't think that this is necessarily an indication of a lack of pride in ownership, but rather a natural part of the front-end development process. With the vary large variety of browser and operating environments, there are considerably more variables in front-end development as opposed to backend-end development, which at times can make the process more complex. To echo your words (and I am not being condescending here, so please don't take this the wrong way), there is simply not enough time is the day to test every page in every browser, in every operating system. In that case, I would echo Scott in encouraging everyone on this list to report these issues as they are found so that they can be identified, categorized and prioritized as this initiative progresses. Thanks, Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Oct 12, 2009, at 8:30 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: Hi Jacques: First, thanks for engaging in this discussion. As an outsider who really cares about OFBiz, I find it disheartening that the project as a whole does not have enough pride in ownership to at least validate basic user facing components. I understand the project is growing and that is a good thing. But I caution everyone, bigger (and more) is not always better. While discouraged I'm not going to stop promoting and using OFBiz. IMHO, it is still unrivaled. These are but surface problems that need attention - sooner rather than later. Since I am an outsider, this list is one of the few mediums I have for voicing my concerns. Sometimes, however, I feel as though I'm spitting in the wind. Second, I applaud all the work you and others have contributed towards the betterment of the project. I continue to be amazed at the dedication and commitment of many of the developers - you included! Third, I have no problem with filing Jira issues. I have filed several in the past. However, IMHO that is not going to solve this particular problem. Neither is going back through the commits (as David suggests) to identify the problematic code. IMHO, there is something fundamentally wrong possibly with the planning process or the manner in which commits are filed. I don't know. Code validation and regression testing is a complex process that needs to be addressed with some rigor if the community ever expects to move ahead. I am available to help in anyway I can. But, I don't see much discussion or activity in this direction. As for your comment concerning the themes to use: my original comments were directed towards the online demo which, if there is a way to change the ecommerce product listing theme, it is not well advertised. Finally, I welcome any further discussion on quality control and testing as I really do believe that OFBiz rocks! I want to see it take its proper place in the world :-) Regards, Ruth Jacques Le Roux wrote: Hi Ruth, When you see an issue just drop a word about it in this ML with a copy of the url of if you have enough time, please file a Jira. It should not take too much time. I will also recommend you to use the Flat Grey Theme or at least Blue Light one. Which browser are you using ? I suspect some issue with Bizness Time and I'd ask community if we should revert the default to Flat Grey, at least in trunk ? BTW I agree with you that some it's discouraging. For instance when you want to apply a patch and have to fix 2 unrelated bugs before being able to test it. Some time it's even your own bugs :D. But at the same time, OFBiz is growing and we should not become discouraged. You may be interested by https://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/ConfigureReport.jspa?projectOrFilterId=project-12310500periodName=dailydaysprevious=30cumulative=trueshowUnresolvedTrend=trueversionLabels=majorreportKey=com.atlassian.jira.ext.charting%3Acreatedvsresolved-reportNext=Next to follow how the project kee up with bugs (not only bugs much Jira are) Thanks Jacques From: Ruth Hoffman rhoff...@aesolves.com Hi Scott: Sorry to say there isn't enough time in the day for me to report all the rendering problems I see in this release. For example, try adding a product to the cart and observe how the the shopping cart summary links (on the right column) under
Re: modal forms in ofbiz
Erwan, The Prototype and Scriptaculous libraries are included in the OFBiz framework and there are many methods for creating modal windows using these libraries. The default back office theme (bizznesstime) uses modal windows for theme selection, language selection, and time selection. The application.js file in that theme folder can provide you with a relatively simple implementation example. The code that powers the modal window is a Prototype Class and is only a handful of lines of code. Ryan Foster HotWax Media 801.671.0769 ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com On Sep 17, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Erwan de FERRIERES wrote: Hi all, has anyone tried to implement modal forms in ofbiz ? i'm looking for something similar to this : http://jqueryui.com/demos/dialog/modal-form.html Thanks in advance, -- - Erwan -
Re: maincss.css : relative path error
So it sounds like the simplest solution would be to copy the styles
used by the email templates from maincss.css to ecommain.css and then
change the path to point to ecommain.css.
One thing I would like to propose for development going forward,
however, is that we move ecommain.css and related images into its own
folder in the /themes directory and classify it as a front-end theme
as well, just the same we have done for the rest of the themes
(bizznesstime, flatgrey, multiflex, bluelight, etc.). Now that we
have implemented themes functionality, it doesn't make sense to leave
ecommain.css in the framework images folder. There should be no
reason we should have any hard-coded stylesheet values in screen
definitions or Freemarker templates in the framework, front-end or
back-office. This should be controlled by the theme parameters.
Ryan Foster
HotWax Media
801.671.0769
ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com
On Sep 14, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Scott Gray wrote:
They may display better with main.css but if they are ecommerce
emails then they should use the ecommerce stylesheet.
Regards
Scott
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
On 15/09/2009, at 12:47 AM, Eric DE MAULDE wrote:
Thanks Ryan
I don't have a solution to manage maincss.css according to the theme.
For example, mails are a better display with maincss.css than
ecommain.css
Eric
- Original Message - From: Ryan Foster ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: maincss.css : relative path error
Jacques,
That is correct. There is only one maincss.css file. It used to
be located in the images folder when flatgrey was the only/
default theme for the OFBiz back office applications. It was
moved to the / flatgrey webapp theme when we added the additional
themes (bizznesstime and bluelight) and made bizznesstime the
default theme.
Eric,
It does appear the files you listed do have an incorrect relative
path. However, it seems to me that there is another problem
beyond the relative path issue. The files mentioned below apply
to the ecommerce component don't they? They should be
referencing ecommain.css not maincss.css. Also, any back office
screen view should not have a hard-coded path to maincss.css
anyway. The stylesheet should be controlled by the themes
component.
Ryan Foster
HotWax Media
801.671.0769
ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com
On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:06 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
Hi Eric,
I'm not totally sure, but as there are no other maincss.css file
I guess so... Maybe there is something else to change, themes
gurus ?
Jacques
From: Eric DE MAULDE eric...@free.fr
Hi
maincss.css file is into the webapp flatgrey
So its relative path is /flatgrey/maincss.css
But a lot of files include a wrong relative path :
${baseUrl}/images/maincss.css
Files are :
OrderNoticeEmail.ftl
ContactListVerifyEmail.ftl
/ecommerce/blog/main.ftl
webpos/widget/CommonScreens.xml
...
Is there an error ?
Have I to create a patch ?
Eric
Re: maincss.css : relative path error
Jacques,
That is correct. There is only one maincss.css file. It used to be
located in the images folder when flatgrey was the only/default
theme for the OFBiz back office applications. It was moved to the /
flatgrey webapp theme when we added the additional themes
(bizznesstime and bluelight) and made bizznesstime the default theme.
Eric,
It does appear the files you listed do have an incorrect relative
path. However, it seems to me that there is another problem beyond
the relative path issue. The files mentioned below apply to the
ecommerce component don't they? They should be referencing
ecommain.css not maincss.css. Also, any back office screen view
should not have a hard-coded path to maincss.css anyway. The
stylesheet should be controlled by the themes component.
Ryan Foster
HotWax Media
801.671.0769
ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com
On Sep 10, 2009, at 2:06 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
Hi Eric,
I'm not totally sure, but as there are no other maincss.css file I
guess so... Maybe there is something else to change, themes gurus ?
Jacques
From: Eric DE MAULDE eric...@free.fr
Hi
maincss.css file is into the webapp flatgrey
So its relative path is /flatgrey/maincss.css
But a lot of files include a wrong relative path :
${baseUrl}/images/maincss.css
Files are :
OrderNoticeEmail.ftl
ContactListVerifyEmail.ftl
/ecommerce/blog/main.ftl
webpos/widget/CommonScreens.xml
...
Is there an error ?
Have I to create a patch ?
Eric
Re: Bug in visual theme when you go in Catalog, Services, Products
This can easily be corrected. I have fixed this in most of our custom
backend themes, but I have not yet had a chance to create a patch to
fix this in the trunk. If one of the committers on this list can take
this and run with it, it is a pretty easy fix. The problem is related
to the reset at the beginning of style.css. The reset does not
baseline a font size so the browser uses its default font size (which
I believe is 16px). That would explain the increasing font size. All
that is needed is to add the following:
html, body, div, span, applet, object, iframe,
h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, p, blockquote, pre,
a, abbr, acronym, address, big, cite, code,
del, dfn, em, font, img, ins, kbd, q, s, samp,
small, strike, strong, sub, sup, tt, var,
b, u, i, center,
dl, dt, dd, ol, ul, li,
fieldset, form, label, legend,
table, caption, tbody, tfoot, thead, tr, th, td {
border:0;
margin:0;
outline:0;
padding:0;
font-size: 100%; add font size to reset
background:transparent;
vertical-align: baseline;
}
body {line-height: 1; color: black; background: white;} reset line
height and baseline colors
Add a font-size of 100% to the first reset, and set the line height of
the body to 1. This should fix the problem.
Ryan Foster
HotWax Media
801.671.0769
ryan.fos...@hotwaxmedia.com
On Aug 20, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Vince Clark wrote:
Yes I am using Firefox. Is there another kind of Browser? ;-)
I'll try the refresh.
Vince Clark
www.globalera.com
vcl...@globalera.com
(303) 493-6723 office
(303) 523-4843 cell
- Original Message -
From: Erwan de FERRIERES erwan.de-ferrie...@nereide.biz
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:27:46 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada
Mountain
Subject: Re: Bug in visual theme when you go in Catalog, Services,
Products
Are you using firefox ? if so, I have been experiencing the same
problem. But I have never had the chance to reproduce it. Just with a
refresh, it is gone...
Le 20/08/2009 17:12, Vince Clark a écrit :
I have experienced strange behavior with Business Time theme in
trunk. As I navigate, do searches, etc. the size of elements on the
page seem to get bigger including buttons, fonts, the size of
everything in a table. This is just a general observation. I
haven't taken the time to document a reproducible bug.
Vince Clark
www.globalera.com
vcl...@globalera.com
(303) 493-6723 office
(303) 523-4843 cell
--
- Erwan -
