Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
I agree that the OFBiz mailing lists and other OFBiz-specific fora are not a good place to discuss or advertise Moqui or any other non-OFBiz project. For this reason after the initial discussions about using Moqui in OFBiz I've tried to limit my comments about Moqui to specific ideas in Moqui that might be useful for certain issues in OFBiz and other OFBiz-specific issues related to Moqui, such as this discussion. I also agree that successor and latest base are not good ways to describe Moqui's relationship to OFBiz. I do sometimes use the term next generation as in the ideas in Moqui Framework represent the next generation of the ideas implemented in the OFBiz Framework. They are still separate projects and live separate lives, progressing in different ways differently. Moqui is not based on OFBiz and it not even intended to replace it. The Moqui Framework, Mantle Business Artifacts, and applications in the Moqui ecosystem may compete with OFBiz in a way, but they are conceptually quite different in software structure and implementation, and in community structure. So no, Moqui is not a successor to OFBiz and it is also not in any way the most recent version of OFBiz (which I think is what is implied by latest base). It is a design and implementation from scratch that uses many of the ideas introduced in OFBiz, and some ideas that I (and perhaps others) want to see implemented in OFBiz, but other than that there is little in common. If it's any consolation, OFBiz is discussed more in Moqui forums than Moqui is in OFBiz ones. I can't seem to have a conversation about Moqui with an prospective investor or client, or prospective collaborator on Moqui/Mantle/etc with OFBiz being a major element of the discussion. -David On Jun 1, 2013, at 5:07 PM, Scott Gray scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com wrote: I have no problem with open and frank discussions about the shortcomings of OFBiz, I'm totally in favor of them. I guess it all depends on context and intent. In my opinion PMC members have an obligation to act in the best interests of the project when interacting with the project and its community. If they cannot or do not wish to do that then I think they have a moral obligation to resign. While I'd prefer it if the OFBiz lists (particularly the user list) wasn't used as an avenue to advertise Moqui or any other competing framework (derivative works are a different matter), I don't really have much of a problem with it and it is probably what is tolerated because of your history. What I did have a problem with was how a PMC member chose to portray OFBiz to its users. Al effectively said that Moqui is the new OFBiz by calling it the successor and latest base, that's an untrue and damaging assertion. These discussions are new to the lists as far as I'm concerned, Why X is better than OFBiz and you should consider using it instead is not something I'm used to seeing from PMC members or committers. I don't know how best to deal with the it but I do think PMC members initiating in such discussions should consider whether they have the best interests of the project at heart and act accordingly. Regards Scott On 1/06/2013, at 12:57 PM, David E. Jones wrote: I suppose I'm just as guilty of this as Al. Doing this sort of thing has been common since the beginning of OFBiz and includes users, contributors, committers, and once it existed PMC members too. There have been all sorts of discussions over time about alternative tools and even alternative business applications including other ecommerce and ERP apps. More recently derivative works have become more common and they have been pimped on the mailing lists and in other OFBiz-related venues for a while (also to the complaints of some). I guess this actually goes back a ways to early derivative works of OFBiz like Neogia, so maybe even that is not such a new phenomena. Maybe my posts on the topic are more tolerated given my history with OFBiz, but in general I believe in open communication and exploration of alternatives. I'm happy to let people compare the Entity Engine to more recent tools like Hibernate and JPA (even if those are just improvements on very old object-relational mapping concepts) because the more dynamic approach is all sorts of advantages that object-tied persistence tools just can't touch. As we've found over the years with OFBiz there are some things other tools do better, and some things the OFBiz framework tools do better. It's always interesting to discuss them, even if most people pimping one or the other do so in total ignorance of the other... or sometimes both! Some of the most ardent proponents of JPA/Hibernate I've spoken with over the years have little experience with either option. Whatever the case, in discussions like this my personal approval of a comment depends more on details and experiences offered
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
I have no problem with open and frank discussions about the shortcomings of OFBiz, I'm totally in favor of them. I guess it all depends on context and intent. In my opinion PMC members have an obligation to act in the best interests of the project when interacting with the project and its community. If they cannot or do not wish to do that then I think they have a moral obligation to resign. While I'd prefer it if the OFBiz lists (particularly the user list) wasn't used as an avenue to advertise Moqui or any other competing framework (derivative works are a different matter), I don't really have much of a problem with it and it is probably what is tolerated because of your history. What I did have a problem with was how a PMC member chose to portray OFBiz to its users. Al effectively said that Moqui is the new OFBiz by calling it the successor and latest base, that's an untrue and damaging assertion. These discussions are new to the lists as far as I'm concerned, Why X is better than OFBiz and you should consider using it instead is not something I'm used to seeing from PMC members or committers. I don't know how best to deal with the it but I do think PMC members initiating in such discussions should consider whether they have the best interests of the project at heart and act accordingly. Regards Scott On 1/06/2013, at 12:57 PM, David E. Jones wrote: I suppose I'm just as guilty of this as Al. Doing this sort of thing has been common since the beginning of OFBiz and includes users, contributors, committers, and once it existed PMC members too. There have been all sorts of discussions over time about alternative tools and even alternative business applications including other ecommerce and ERP apps. More recently derivative works have become more common and they have been pimped on the mailing lists and in other OFBiz-related venues for a while (also to the complaints of some). I guess this actually goes back a ways to early derivative works of OFBiz like Neogia, so maybe even that is not such a new phenomena. Maybe my posts on the topic are more tolerated given my history with OFBiz, but in general I believe in open communication and exploration of alternatives. I'm happy to let people compare the Entity Engine to more recent tools like Hibernate and JPA (even if those are just improvements on very old object-relational mapping concepts) because the more dynamic approach is all sorts of advantages that object-tied persistence tools just can't touch. As we've found over the years with OFBiz there are some things other tools do better, and some things the OFBiz framework tools do better. It's always interesting to discuss them, even if most people pimping one or the other do so in total ignorance of the other... or sometimes both! Some of the most ardent proponents of JPA/Hibernate I've spoken with over the years have little experience with either option. Whatever the case, in discussions like this my personal approval of a comment depends more on details and experiences offered than on general statements of what is and isn't a good idea, and even in this discussion I'd rather see defenders of OFBiz offer details than general statements. I tried to do that in my reply to your post Adrian, because your post didn't include any sorts of details defending your assertion. It comes across as whining and not productive discussion. One thing I can say that OFBiz has a pretty good position in is market share, public awareness, and through it's maturity and affiliation with the ASF quite a bit of public confidence too. That's a great thing that will drive the project for years still regardless of other trends or any competition. Of mature ERP and large ecommerce systems it is still probably the best for heavy customization and does well in organizations or derivative works where that is needed. I don't imagine Moqui and the projects in its ecosystem will touch that for a while. Most derivative works that compete with OFBiz benefit from this too, and even still many have a hard time competing with plain vanilla OFBiz. This is true for both public derivative works that are advertised in some way or other (like Big Fish) or the dozen or so private derivative works that I'm aware of within a number of different OFBiz service providers (ie used for clients and internal projects only, not really distributed publicly either open source or commercial). Such extensions made public do more to help OFBiz than harm it, by a big amount IMO. Even Moqui/Mantle/etc do more to drive traffic to OFBiz than the other way around. That may change over time, but right now that's the case from what I'm aware of (ie people looking at Moqui/Mantle/etc and deciding to use OFBiz instead). -David On May 31, 2013, at 3:03 AM, Scott Gray scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com wrote: Al, Privately or
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
Al, Privately or not, if this is how you intend to interact with OFBiz users by actively encouraging them to switch to the competing framework that you're currently working with, then I'd strongly encourage you to resign from the OFBiz PMC. It's really not the type of project management we need. Regards Scott On 22/05/2013, at 10:26 PM, Al Byers wrote: I feel like I owe another apology to the OFBiz developers. Though my initial remarks were accidental (and embarrassing), I was wrong not to acknowledge that OFBiz has a wealth of functionality that Moqui does not approach at this time. And my lack of first hand knowledge of all the work that has gone into upgrading OFBiz is no excuse for not acknowledging that. I know that I will need and want to use OFBiz for the rest of my career and those who have put so much effort into making it the valuable product that it is should be commended, for they will never get full payback for their work. Thanks for all that you have done. - Al Byers On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: From: Al Byers bye...@automationgroups.com Sorry Adrian, Had my mind on too many things and didn't mean to send it to the list. But then, a dose of open mike might be refreshing. I know that there are some great developers on OFBiz, but sometimes things get too large to refactor and a fresh start is better. This was already discussed indeed. This option is still open. On the other hand, after more than a decade, I believe OFBiz is even better. For almost 3 years now we are less including new features and more fixing what exists. Notably in the framewors itself, where a replacement by Moqui makes more sense. We are even removing unused stuff, sometimes too harshly said Skip recently, nobody's perfect. I don't think American car manufacturers were really concerned about improving their product until the Japanese came along. And, even then, I don't think that they have become competitive except to the extent that they have pushed the reset button. In French we say comparaison n'est pas raison. Don't try to translate with Google (again lost in translation). But I guess you can get it without. It is not reasonable to think that OFBiz will just make the next release on Moqui, but it seems like there could be a vanguard interested in making a port. I think nobody is against it. As you say this would be a long, or maybe medium, term goal. OFBiz is considered stable now. Replacing the framework with Moqui would certainly take some time before acquiring the same level of stability Jacques PS: thanks Adrian for your defense of the team -Al On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Adrian Crum adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: A quick clarification on this. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but... implies OFBiz is no longer brilliant. OFBiz continues to be just as brilliant, with a talented team of developers keeping it current with current technology. -Adrian On 5/20/2013 4:04 PM, Al Byers wrote: Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org http://moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org http://moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.com mailto: carlos@nbtbizcapital.**com car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. If you're interested email me for more details. Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. Thanks!! Carlos logo-for-social-media-sites-**email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
Valid point, Scott. I have offered to resign years ago as I am not active, but no one took me up on it. Sounds like you need project management that requires active PMC members. I will send my resignation request to the pmc list where this conversation should probably take place. -Al On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 4:03 AM, Scott Gray scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.comwrote: Al, Privately or not, if this is how you intend to interact with OFBiz users by actively encouraging them to switch to the competing framework that you're currently working with, then I'd strongly encourage you to resign from the OFBiz PMC. It's really not the type of project management we need. Regards Scott On 22/05/2013, at 10:26 PM, Al Byers wrote: I feel like I owe another apology to the OFBiz developers. Though my initial remarks were accidental (and embarrassing), I was wrong not to acknowledge that OFBiz has a wealth of functionality that Moqui does not approach at this time. And my lack of first hand knowledge of all the work that has gone into upgrading OFBiz is no excuse for not acknowledging that. I know that I will need and want to use OFBiz for the rest of my career and those who have put so much effort into making it the valuable product that it is should be commended, for they will never get full payback for their work. Thanks for all that you have done. - Al Byers On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: From: Al Byers bye...@automationgroups.com Sorry Adrian, Had my mind on too many things and didn't mean to send it to the list. But then, a dose of open mike might be refreshing. I know that there are some great developers on OFBiz, but sometimes things get too large to refactor and a fresh start is better. This was already discussed indeed. This option is still open. On the other hand, after more than a decade, I believe OFBiz is even better. For almost 3 years now we are less including new features and more fixing what exists. Notably in the framewors itself, where a replacement by Moqui makes more sense. We are even removing unused stuff, sometimes too harshly said Skip recently, nobody's perfect. I don't think American car manufacturers were really concerned about improving their product until the Japanese came along. And, even then, I don't think that they have become competitive except to the extent that they have pushed the reset button. In French we say comparaison n'est pas raison. Don't try to translate with Google (again lost in translation). But I guess you can get it without. It is not reasonable to think that OFBiz will just make the next release on Moqui, but it seems like there could be a vanguard interested in making a port. I think nobody is against it. As you say this would be a long, or maybe medium, term goal. OFBiz is considered stable now. Replacing the framework with Moqui would certainly take some time before acquiring the same level of stability Jacques PS: thanks Adrian for your defense of the team -Al On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Adrian Crum adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: A quick clarification on this. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but... implies OFBiz is no longer brilliant. OFBiz continues to be just as brilliant, with a talented team of developers keeping it current with current technology. -Adrian On 5/20/2013 4:04 PM, Al Byers wrote: Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org http://moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org http://moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.com mailto: carlos@nbtbizcapital.**com car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
Thanks Al. More than anything we need PMC members who are helping the project rather than hurting it. Regards Scott On 31/05/2013, at 10:13 PM, Al Byers wrote: Valid point, Scott. I have offered to resign years ago as I am not active, but no one took me up on it. Sounds like you need project management that requires active PMC members. I will send my resignation request to the pmc list where this conversation should probably take place. -Al On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 4:03 AM, Scott Gray scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.comwrote: Al, Privately or not, if this is how you intend to interact with OFBiz users by actively encouraging them to switch to the competing framework that you're currently working with, then I'd strongly encourage you to resign from the OFBiz PMC. It's really not the type of project management we need. Regards Scott On 22/05/2013, at 10:26 PM, Al Byers wrote: I feel like I owe another apology to the OFBiz developers. Though my initial remarks were accidental (and embarrassing), I was wrong not to acknowledge that OFBiz has a wealth of functionality that Moqui does not approach at this time. And my lack of first hand knowledge of all the work that has gone into upgrading OFBiz is no excuse for not acknowledging that. I know that I will need and want to use OFBiz for the rest of my career and those who have put so much effort into making it the valuable product that it is should be commended, for they will never get full payback for their work. Thanks for all that you have done. - Al Byers On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: From: Al Byers bye...@automationgroups.com Sorry Adrian, Had my mind on too many things and didn't mean to send it to the list. But then, a dose of open mike might be refreshing. I know that there are some great developers on OFBiz, but sometimes things get too large to refactor and a fresh start is better. This was already discussed indeed. This option is still open. On the other hand, after more than a decade, I believe OFBiz is even better. For almost 3 years now we are less including new features and more fixing what exists. Notably in the framewors itself, where a replacement by Moqui makes more sense. We are even removing unused stuff, sometimes too harshly said Skip recently, nobody's perfect. I don't think American car manufacturers were really concerned about improving their product until the Japanese came along. And, even then, I don't think that they have become competitive except to the extent that they have pushed the reset button. In French we say comparaison n'est pas raison. Don't try to translate with Google (again lost in translation). But I guess you can get it without. It is not reasonable to think that OFBiz will just make the next release on Moqui, but it seems like there could be a vanguard interested in making a port. I think nobody is against it. As you say this would be a long, or maybe medium, term goal. OFBiz is considered stable now. Replacing the framework with Moqui would certainly take some time before acquiring the same level of stability Jacques PS: thanks Adrian for your defense of the team -Al On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Adrian Crum adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: A quick clarification on this. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but... implies OFBiz is no longer brilliant. OFBiz continues to be just as brilliant, with a talented team of developers keeping it current with current technology. -Adrian On 5/20/2013 4:04 PM, Al Byers wrote: Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org http://moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org http://moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.com mailto: carlos@nbtbizcapital.**com car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz.
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
I suppose I'm just as guilty of this as Al. Doing this sort of thing has been common since the beginning of OFBiz and includes users, contributors, committers, and once it existed PMC members too. There have been all sorts of discussions over time about alternative tools and even alternative business applications including other ecommerce and ERP apps. More recently derivative works have become more common and they have been pimped on the mailing lists and in other OFBiz-related venues for a while (also to the complaints of some). I guess this actually goes back a ways to early derivative works of OFBiz like Neogia, so maybe even that is not such a new phenomena. Maybe my posts on the topic are more tolerated given my history with OFBiz, but in general I believe in open communication and exploration of alternatives. I'm happy to let people compare the Entity Engine to more recent tools like Hibernate and JPA (even if those are just improvements on very old object-relational mapping concepts) because the more dynamic approach is all sorts of advantages that object-tied persistence tools just can't touch. As we've found over the years with OFBiz there are some things other tools do better, and some things the OFBiz framework tools do better. It's always interesting to discuss them, even if most people pimping one or the other do so in total ignorance of the other... or sometimes both! Some of the most ardent proponents of JPA/Hibernate I've spoken with over the years have little experience with either option. Whatever the case, in discussions like this my personal approval of a comment depends more on details and experiences offered than on general statements of what is and isn't a good idea, and even in this discussion I'd rather see defenders of OFBiz offer details than general statements. I tried to do that in my reply to your post Adrian, because your post didn't include any sorts of details defending your assertion. It comes across as whining and not productive discussion. One thing I can say that OFBiz has a pretty good position in is market share, public awareness, and through it's maturity and affiliation with the ASF quite a bit of public confidence too. That's a great thing that will drive the project for years still regardless of other trends or any competition. Of mature ERP and large ecommerce systems it is still probably the best for heavy customization and does well in organizations or derivative works where that is needed. I don't imagine Moqui and the projects in its ecosystem will touch that for a while. Most derivative works that compete with OFBiz benefit from this too, and even still many have a hard time competing with plain vanilla OFBiz. This is true for both public derivative works that are advertised in some way or other (like Big Fish) or the dozen or so private derivative works that I'm aware of within a number of different OFBiz service providers (ie used for clients and internal projects only, not really distributed publicly either open source or commercial). Such extensions made public do more to help OFBiz than harm it, by a big amount IMO. Even Moqui/Mantle/etc do more to drive traffic to OFBiz than the other way around. That may change over time, but right now that's the case from what I'm aware of (ie people looking at Moqui/Mantle/etc and deciding to use OFBiz instead). -David On May 31, 2013, at 3:03 AM, Scott Gray scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com wrote: Al, Privately or not, if this is how you intend to interact with OFBiz users by actively encouraging them to switch to the competing framework that you're currently working with, then I'd strongly encourage you to resign from the OFBiz PMC. It's really not the type of project management we need. Regards Scott On 22/05/2013, at 10:26 PM, Al Byers wrote: I feel like I owe another apology to the OFBiz developers. Though my initial remarks were accidental (and embarrassing), I was wrong not to acknowledge that OFBiz has a wealth of functionality that Moqui does not approach at this time. And my lack of first hand knowledge of all the work that has gone into upgrading OFBiz is no excuse for not acknowledging that. I know that I will need and want to use OFBiz for the rest of my career and those who have put so much effort into making it the valuable product that it is should be commended, for they will never get full payback for their work. Thanks for all that you have done. - Al Byers On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: From: Al Byers bye...@automationgroups.com Sorry Adrian, Had my mind on too many things and didn't mean to send it to the list. But then, a dose of open mike might be refreshing. I know that there are some great developers on OFBiz, but sometimes things get too large to refactor and a fresh start is better. This was already discussed indeed. This option is
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
I feel like I owe another apology to the OFBiz developers. Though my initial remarks were accidental (and embarrassing), I was wrong not to acknowledge that OFBiz has a wealth of functionality that Moqui does not approach at this time. And my lack of first hand knowledge of all the work that has gone into upgrading OFBiz is no excuse for not acknowledging that. I know that I will need and want to use OFBiz for the rest of my career and those who have put so much effort into making it the valuable product that it is should be commended, for they will never get full payback for their work. Thanks for all that you have done. - Al Byers On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: From: Al Byers bye...@automationgroups.com Sorry Adrian, Had my mind on too many things and didn't mean to send it to the list. But then, a dose of open mike might be refreshing. I know that there are some great developers on OFBiz, but sometimes things get too large to refactor and a fresh start is better. This was already discussed indeed. This option is still open. On the other hand, after more than a decade, I believe OFBiz is even better. For almost 3 years now we are less including new features and more fixing what exists. Notably in the framewors itself, where a replacement by Moqui makes more sense. We are even removing unused stuff, sometimes too harshly said Skip recently, nobody's perfect. I don't think American car manufacturers were really concerned about improving their product until the Japanese came along. And, even then, I don't think that they have become competitive except to the extent that they have pushed the reset button. In French we say comparaison n'est pas raison. Don't try to translate with Google (again lost in translation). But I guess you can get it without. It is not reasonable to think that OFBiz will just make the next release on Moqui, but it seems like there could be a vanguard interested in making a port. I think nobody is against it. As you say this would be a long, or maybe medium, term goal. OFBiz is considered stable now. Replacing the framework with Moqui would certainly take some time before acquiring the same level of stability Jacques PS: thanks Adrian for your defense of the team -Al On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Adrian Crum adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: A quick clarification on this. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but... implies OFBiz is no longer brilliant. OFBiz continues to be just as brilliant, with a talented team of developers keeping it current with current technology. -Adrian On 5/20/2013 4:04 PM, Al Byers wrote: Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org http://moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org http://moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.com mailto: carlos@nbtbizcapital.**com car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. If you're interested email me for more details. Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. Thanks!! Carlos logo-for-social-media-sites-**email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com http://www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com mailto:email%3Acarlos@**ccradius.com email%253acar...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 tel:1-877-285-5499
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
Well put, Adrian, well put! -- View this message in context: http://ofbiz.135035.n4.nabble.com/Looking-for-an-experience-Java-programmer-with-OFBiz-experience-tp4641414p4641454.html Sent from the OFBiz - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
From: Al Byers bye...@automationgroups.com I feel like I owe another apology to the OFBiz developers. Though my initial remarks were accidental (and embarrassing), I was wrong not to acknowledge that OFBiz has a wealth of functionality that Moqui does not approach at this time. And my lack of first hand knowledge of all the work that has gone into upgrading OFBiz is no excuse for not acknowledging that. I know that I will need and want to use OFBiz for the rest of my career and those who have put so much effort into making it the valuable product that it is should be commended, for they will never get full payback for their work. Thanks for all that you have done. Thanks Al, not only what we have done, we continue... Jacques - Al Byers On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Jacques Le Roux jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com wrote: From: Al Byers bye...@automationgroups.com Sorry Adrian, Had my mind on too many things and didn't mean to send it to the list. But then, a dose of open mike might be refreshing. I know that there are some great developers on OFBiz, but sometimes things get too large to refactor and a fresh start is better. This was already discussed indeed. This option is still open. On the other hand, after more than a decade, I believe OFBiz is even better. For almost 3 years now we are less including new features and more fixing what exists. Notably in the framewors itself, where a replacement by Moqui makes more sense. We are even removing unused stuff, sometimes too harshly said Skip recently, nobody's perfect. I don't think American car manufacturers were really concerned about improving their product until the Japanese came along. And, even then, I don't think that they have become competitive except to the extent that they have pushed the reset button. In French we say comparaison n'est pas raison. Don't try to translate with Google (again lost in translation). But I guess you can get it without. It is not reasonable to think that OFBiz will just make the next release on Moqui, but it seems like there could be a vanguard interested in making a port. I think nobody is against it. As you say this would be a long, or maybe medium, term goal. OFBiz is considered stable now. Replacing the framework with Moqui would certainly take some time before acquiring the same level of stability Jacques PS: thanks Adrian for your defense of the team -Al On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Adrian Crum adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: A quick clarification on this. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but... implies OFBiz is no longer brilliant. OFBiz continues to be just as brilliant, with a talented team of developers keeping it current with current technology. -Adrian On 5/20/2013 4:04 PM, Al Byers wrote: Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org http://moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org http://moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.com mailto: carlos@nbtbizcapital.**com car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. If you're interested email me for more details. Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. Thanks!! Carlos logo-for-social-media-sites-**email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com http://www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com mailto:email%3Acarlos@**ccradius.com email%253acar...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 tel:1-877-285-5499
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
OFBiz has recently turned 12 years old. At the time it was written many more
modern libraries either didn't exist or were not usable, including:
- Groovy
- ehcache
- Quartz Scheduler
- Atomikos
- JackRabbit (and JCR in general)
- Shiro
- Camel
- JSON-RPC, REST, JSON in general
- ElasticSearch (and to some extent even Lucene)
- Document and other NoSQL databases (of which ElasticSearch is sort of, but I
mean CouchDB, MongoDB, Hadoop and derivatives, etc)
Some of these are used, or with some customization usable, in OFBiz. Many of
them overlap a lot with parts of the OFBiz framework, and unlike JPA/Hibernate
sorts of things, do a better job than what is in OFBiz.
Some big ones are caching, job scheduling, content management, and even
searching. The OFBiz ProductSearch stuff works well enough (though not great)
for smaller sets of products, but doesn't compare in flexibility, scalability,
and speed to ElasticSearch and some other Lucene-based alternatives. With some
simple framework extensions (like the DataDocument, DataFeed, and DataSearch
features of Moqui) implementing excellent search for products would be easy, as
would search for any other part of the system... and all combined in a single
system-wide search or segmented as desired.
Another big one, that has been most painful for me in dealing with OFBiz, is
the lack of consistent scripting and expressions. Once you get used to the
elegance of Groovy dealing with BSH and JUEL is downright painful... and for me
anyway requires a number of misses before I finally get it working. The
${groovy:...} work-around is there, but quirky, and the resulting object is
unreliable as in some OFBiz XML files it results in a String while in others it
results in the actual Object the expression evaluates to.
Even if it is self-serving, I agree that OFBiz was brilliant in its day, but it
needs FAR more modernization than is currently happening or that is likely to
happen. The new feature velocity in the framework is so slow (mostly because of
the architecture and existing code, partly because of collaboration breakdown
reasons), that it can't keep up with alternatives.
So yes, OFBiz is great, but it exists in a world that is progressing far faster
than it can. My reason for starting fresh was just that simple: development
velocity.
On top of that OFBiz uses certain approaches that are difficult to deploy and
maintain. Try dropping all of OFBiz into a single war file for easy upload
deployment on the dozens of modern cloud/PaaS services. Try adding plug-ins
that require a proper init/destroy lifecycle instead of relying on static
initialization and no proper tear down. Try finding framework functionality in
thousands of static methods spread across dozens (or hundreds?) of classes. I
know these weaknesses of OFBiz well... they are my mistakes. Correcting them is
another matter... and one I didn't find possible in the context of the project
with the limited time I have available. It was faster and easier to start fresh.
When I started OFBiz I was 23 years old and had about 2 years of experience in
ERP systems. I think it's great that there is enough interest to keep the
project alive and at whatever pace keep it progressing both technically and for
support of business activities. Still, something must be done for it to remain
competitive with open source and commercial alternatives if it is to compete...
including with what I've been calling the Next Generation of OFBiz, ie Moqui
Framework, Mantle Business Artifacts, and the various projects and products
built on them.
As good as it is, there is lots of room for improvement and others are doing
just that. I don't think Al was implying that OFBiz is no longer brilliant,
maybe some are overly sensitive to that. The fact is that OFBiz is what it is,
and without major improvements alternatives exceed it in so many ways. It
doesn't make OFBiz less brilliant, but in a sky with other bright stars its
brilliance is only relevant in context.
OFBiz has lots of momentum, and pretty good marketplace around it, and a lot of
people are making good money doing work based on it (including me). Still, I
tire frequently of explaining that so many things are known issues with the
project and not easy to correct, but are corrected in the Next Generation, ie
Moqui/Mantle. Usually the fix is a hack and workaround that can't be committed
because it breaks other things, just things they don't intend to use (this
still has consequences for bigger projects... things all seem to come back
around).
So, it is what it is. I understand the motivation to paint OFBiz the best
possible for marketing purposes and such... I personally did that for years in
spite of known flaws. Eventually that only goes so far... OFBiz versus other
open source alternatives has its pluses and minuses, and most in the community
are very aware of those minuses. This causes many to drool over cleaner, newer
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.comwrote: Hi; ** ** I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. ** ** I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. ** ** This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. ** ** If you're interested email me for more details. ** ** Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. ** ** Thanks!! Carlos ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** [image: logo-for-social-media-sites-email_signature] CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 ** ** AlByers3.docx Description: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
Hi Carlos, I would like to know more about this opportunity, I am a java developer with 6.9 years or experience and a passionate ofbiz developer as well. I am launching my own ofbiz based ecommerce site www.simbacart.com in coming few days. Let me know if we can share a quick chat over gtalk. Regards, Mandeep On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.comwrote: Hi; ** ** I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. ** ** I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. ** ** This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. ** ** If you're interested email me for more details. ** ** Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. ** ** Thanks!! Carlos ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** [image: logo-for-social-media-sites-email_signature] CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 ** ** -- Regards, Mandeep Singh Sidhu http://www.simbacart.com (ofbiz based) http://www.sidsol.com
RE: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
Hi Al; Interesting info, I'm interested in taking advantage of OFBiz's backend logic. I currently have a proprietary call center app done in Flex I want to extend this Flex app to create hosted (SaaS) vertical OE applications and I'm thinking of interfacing Flex and OFBiz via hot-deploy Java classes and BlazeDS. I had a very quick read about Moqui on the Sourceforge web site, I don't really think it fits with what I'm doing. Carlos logo-for-social-media-sites-email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 From: Al Byers [mailto:bye...@automationgroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:05 AM To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Subject: Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. If you're interested email me for more details. Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. Thanks!! Carlos CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com mailto:email%3acar...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499
RE: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
sorry!! for clicking the reply button too quickly... the curse of multi-tasking!! logo-for-social-media-sites-email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 From: Carlos Cruz [mailto:car...@nbtbizcapital.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:45 PM To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Subject: RE: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience Hi Al; Interesting info, I'm interested in taking advantage of OFBiz's backend logic. I currently have a proprietary call center app done in Flex I want to extend this Flex app to create hosted (SaaS) vertical OE applications and I'm thinking of interfacing Flex and OFBiz via hot-deploy Java classes and BlazeDS. I had a very quick read about Moqui on the Sourceforge web site, I don't really think it fits with what I'm doing. Carlos logo-for-social-media-sites-email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 From: Al Byers [mailto:bye...@automationgroups.com] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:05 AM To: user@ofbiz.apache.org Subject: Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. If you're interested email me for more details. Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. Thanks!! Carlos CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com mailto:email%3acar...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
A quick clarification on this. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but... implies OFBiz is no longer brilliant. OFBiz continues to be just as brilliant, with a talented team of developers keeping it current with current technology. -Adrian On 5/20/2013 4:04 PM, Al Byers wrote: Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org http://moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org http://moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.com mailto:car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. If you're interested email me for more details. Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. Thanks!! Carlos logo-for-social-media-sites-email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com http://www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com mailto:email%3acar...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 tel:1-877-285-5499
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
Sorry Adrian, Had my mind on too many things and didn't mean to send it to the list. But then, a dose of open mike might be refreshing. I know that there are some great developers on OFBiz, but sometimes things get too large to refactor and a fresh start is better. I don't think American car manufacturers were really concerned about improving their product until the Japanese came along. And, even then, I don't think that they have become competitive except to the extent that they have pushed the reset button. It is not reasonable to think that OFBiz will just make the next release on Moqui, but it seems like there could be a vanguard interested in making a port. -Al On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Adrian Crum adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: A quick clarification on this. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but... implies OFBiz is no longer brilliant. OFBiz continues to be just as brilliant, with a talented team of developers keeping it current with current technology. -Adrian On 5/20/2013 4:04 PM, Al Byers wrote: Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org http://moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org http://moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.commailto: carlos@nbtbizcapital.**com car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. If you're interested email me for more details. Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. Thanks!! Carlos logo-for-social-media-sites-**email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com http://www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com mailto:email%3Acarlos@**ccradius.comemail%253acar...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 tel:1-877-285-5499
Re: Looking for an experience Java programmer with OFBiz experience
From: Al Byers bye...@automationgroups.com Sorry Adrian, Had my mind on too many things and didn't mean to send it to the list. But then, a dose of open mike might be refreshing. I know that there are some great developers on OFBiz, but sometimes things get too large to refactor and a fresh start is better. This was already discussed indeed. This option is still open. On the other hand, after more than a decade, I believe OFBiz is even better. For almost 3 years now we are less including new features and more fixing what exists. Notably in the framewors itself, where a replacement by Moqui makes more sense. We are even removing unused stuff, sometimes too harshly said Skip recently, nobody's perfect. I don't think American car manufacturers were really concerned about improving their product until the Japanese came along. And, even then, I don't think that they have become competitive except to the extent that they have pushed the reset button. In French we say comparaison n'est pas raison. Don't try to translate with Google (again lost in translation). But I guess you can get it without. It is not reasonable to think that OFBiz will just make the next release on Moqui, but it seems like there could be a vanguard interested in making a port. I think nobody is against it. As you say this would be a long, or maybe medium, term goal. OFBiz is considered stable now. Replacing the framework with Moqui would certainly take some time before acquiring the same level of stability Jacques PS: thanks Adrian for your defense of the team -Al On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Adrian Crum adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com wrote: A quick clarification on this. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but... implies OFBiz is no longer brilliant. OFBiz continues to be just as brilliant, with a talented team of developers keeping it current with current technology. -Adrian On 5/20/2013 4:04 PM, Al Byers wrote: Hi Carlos, I am just starting to look around for OFBiz work and was intrigued to see your email there this morning. I have been working with OFBiz for over 10 years now and am interested in what you have going. But I must ask if you have considered Moqui (moqui.org http://moqui.org) - David Jones's successor to OFBiz? I was just at a small conference with David and the folks at HowWax Media and based on David's comments and what I know about Moqui from my past year of working with it, if you are starting anew, and especially if you are not using the current e-commerce features of OFBiz, then you would be well served to look at Moqui. OFBiz was brilliant when David created it over ten years ago, but technology has made great advances in that time and if you have the freedom to do so, it makes sense to start with the latest base. I have attached David's introduction to Moqui PDF, which I don't think is readily available off the moqui.org http://moqui.org website. I hope to hear from you soon. Al Byers 801-400-5111 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Carlos Cruz car...@nbtbizcapital.commailto: carlos@nbtbizcapital.**com car...@nbtbizcapital.com wrote: Hi; I'm looking for a Java programmer that is familiar with OFBiz. Particularly with OFBiz Web Services and OFBiz Entity Engine. I'm interested in hosting OFBiz for some very specific industries and I want to develop some very specific interfaces. This is a long term project, I could be flexible with the hours. If you're interested email me for more details. Also feel free to forward this email to someone you think might be interested. Thanks!! Carlos logo-for-social-media-sites-**email_signature CruzControl Radius Your Success Is Our Service www.ccradius.com http://www.ccradius.com email:car...@ccradius.com mailto:email%3Acarlos@**ccradius.comemail%253acar...@ccradius.com 1-877-285-5499 tel:1-877-285-5499
