Re: [OT] Thinking about improving the FLEX product.
I think there are many other ways to get people working on Apàche FLEX than giving donations to Apache expecting money goes where it was intended to go. I mean. As I see it, collaborating at Apache is a matter of wish, people wishes to help and contributes... Well, what is the problem on founding a parallel fundation that hire the programmers and make them collaborate and contribute to Apache Flex as committers... There are always many ways to get the same goal folks... 2015-02-26 18:44 GMT-03:00 Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com: Couple of notes on this: The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) does not currently take “directed donations”. That means that if you send in a check to the ASF, you can’t dictate that it goes only to Flex, it only goes to the general fund and is shared by all projects. There are many ongoing discussions to change that, but even then, there are likely to be restrictions on using the funds to pay developers. Directed funds are likely to go for servers, events, marketing, but not development. There is a strong ASF sentiment towards never having the ASF pay any developer directly. I’m not sure of the reason, but it may just be that then the unpaid volunteers will start asking to be paid to contribute. So, the proposed solutions are for folks to come up with their own ways to pool money including crowd funding sites. But the model that the ASF commonly promotes is this: Companies that want to support development of a project should simply hire developers to work on that project. No need to try to form a consortium or foundation and deal with tracking the money and taxes. Just hire someone to do the work or to do your work so you can contribute. If you have extra money to donate to the ASF, spend that money on hiring a Flex developer, even part-time. I can guarantee you that if Adobe stops paying me to work on Flex, I’ll be trying to stitch together a living by working on Flex by trying to get companies to pay me to work on Flex. Live Support is a tricky topic. A couple of big companies I’ve talked to want another big company to pick up support for Flex. Not sure who a candidate would be, but in the ASF, live support is a community thing. There are folks watching the mailing list essentially 24/7 already. But that’s not good enough for these big companies. Adobe has only promised 5 years of support for Flex. Not sure when the deadline is up, or if Adobe will immediately stop at the 5 year point, but as we near the 5 year point, it will be interesting to see which big companies still want Flex support and if we can convince some other big company to pick up the ball if Adobe no longer wants it. -Alex On 2/25/15, 11:46 PM, Carlos Velasco carlos.velasco.bla...@gmail.com wrote: The last threads about whether it would be good or not to create a virtual machine which moves FLEX from using the Adobe Flash Player or not, have made me spent many time thinking about the whole thing. I think there are four points where the product need hard investment: 1. The said virtual machine. 2. A good, maintained and free (without cost) IDE for developers to work with FLEX. 3. FLEX evangelism and live support. 4. A bigger FLEX SDK full time commiters base. The thing is... those projects are heavy enough to fail if they are to be developed in a pure community driven context, as they would require full time dedicated people to get them live and working (in parallel to community free efforts). On the other hand, moving to a company to handle them delivers the community to the same situation that is suffering right now with Adobe placed at the base of the technology development. In fact, most people here work or owns companies which make profit or at least made profit by creating FLEX solutions, and I think we all here believe that it shoud be that way for the next years to come. The idea is: We could create an I support FLEX manifest that those companies and developers would sign to voluntarily commit to making regular donations to a foundation created to support and make real and maintaining alive those projects. The foundation goals would be: hiring programmers, analysts, product managers and so to maintain the 3 projects, which obviously will remain being open source Apache projects and mainly community driven. The scope here is not to become owners of the technology, but ensure that there is full time people working everyday on getting FLEX fit, hitting and running. Here in Paraguay we have very good portfolio of developers and a very low development hour costs rate, so it would be the right place to create such a foundation. Of course where comes and goes such received money, what the people is working on, is to be mandatory transparent as the foundation could only go on and work if the contributors are happy investing on it. Do you find interesting such an idea? Do you people think it would
Re: [OT] Thinking about improving the FLEX product.
All Technology and PRODUCT It can only survive supported About An advertisement Very Well Made , atualemente o-flex find themselves in a situation of complete abandonment on the internet Almost NOT think More site Speaking do SUBJECT All agora And HTML 5 nos need to unite and CREATE A mega Gate Where can anviar new components and solutions , tutorials , forum for questions and etc. Keep the Flame Flex ready -- View this message in context: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/OT-Thinking-about-improving-the-FLEX-product-tp9690p9696.html Sent from the Apache Flex Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [OT] Thinking about improving the FLEX product.
Couple of notes on this: The Apache Software Foundation (ASF) does not currently take “directed donations”. That means that if you send in a check to the ASF, you can’t dictate that it goes only to Flex, it only goes to the general fund and is shared by all projects. There are many ongoing discussions to change that, but even then, there are likely to be restrictions on using the funds to pay developers. Directed funds are likely to go for servers, events, marketing, but not development. There is a strong ASF sentiment towards never having the ASF pay any developer directly. I’m not sure of the reason, but it may just be that then the unpaid volunteers will start asking to be paid to contribute. So, the proposed solutions are for folks to come up with their own ways to pool money including crowd funding sites. But the model that the ASF commonly promotes is this: Companies that want to support development of a project should simply hire developers to work on that project. No need to try to form a consortium or foundation and deal with tracking the money and taxes. Just hire someone to do the work or to do your work so you can contribute. If you have extra money to donate to the ASF, spend that money on hiring a Flex developer, even part-time. I can guarantee you that if Adobe stops paying me to work on Flex, I’ll be trying to stitch together a living by working on Flex by trying to get companies to pay me to work on Flex. Live Support is a tricky topic. A couple of big companies I’ve talked to want another big company to pick up support for Flex. Not sure who a candidate would be, but in the ASF, live support is a community thing. There are folks watching the mailing list essentially 24/7 already. But that’s not good enough for these big companies. Adobe has only promised 5 years of support for Flex. Not sure when the deadline is up, or if Adobe will immediately stop at the 5 year point, but as we near the 5 year point, it will be interesting to see which big companies still want Flex support and if we can convince some other big company to pick up the ball if Adobe no longer wants it. -Alex On 2/25/15, 11:46 PM, Carlos Velasco carlos.velasco.bla...@gmail.com wrote: The last threads about whether it would be good or not to create a virtual machine which moves FLEX from using the Adobe Flash Player or not, have made me spent many time thinking about the whole thing. I think there are four points where the product need hard investment: 1. The said virtual machine. 2. A good, maintained and free (without cost) IDE for developers to work with FLEX. 3. FLEX evangelism and live support. 4. A bigger FLEX SDK full time commiters base. The thing is... those projects are heavy enough to fail if they are to be developed in a pure community driven context, as they would require full time dedicated people to get them live and working (in parallel to community free efforts). On the other hand, moving to a company to handle them delivers the community to the same situation that is suffering right now with Adobe placed at the base of the technology development. In fact, most people here work or owns companies which make profit or at least made profit by creating FLEX solutions, and I think we all here believe that it shoud be that way for the next years to come. The idea is: We could create an I support FLEX manifest that those companies and developers would sign to voluntarily commit to making regular donations to a foundation created to support and make real and maintaining alive those projects. The foundation goals would be: hiring programmers, analysts, product managers and so to maintain the 3 projects, which obviously will remain being open source Apache projects and mainly community driven. The scope here is not to become owners of the technology, but ensure that there is full time people working everyday on getting FLEX fit, hitting and running. Here in Paraguay we have very good portfolio of developers and a very low development hour costs rate, so it would be the right place to create such a foundation. Of course where comes and goes such received money, what the people is working on, is to be mandatory transparent as the foundation could only go on and work if the contributors are happy investing on it. Do you find interesting such an idea? Do you people think it would collect enough money to get those 4 development teams running and improving the technology? As I see it, it would be as if every company or developer working with flex and selling flex based solutions shared a flex development team which by the way would work for and only for them that are paying it. Should we work in developing the idea?
Re: [OT] Thinking about improving the FLEX product.
Hi Carlos, Your thoughts is something what is in my mind for a long time. I would give a lot to have opportunity to work in a full time as an developer on Apache Flex project. But to order to create Team which support Apache Flex project you have to convince people who own his own companies to invest money on this. - I think this would be the issue. My bosses are really great and open minded people and they invest a lot of money to Flex apps, a lot of apps have been created by my company, but they moving to HTML and I doubt whether I could say to them. - Hey it's ok Move to HTML, but could you still invest some money to Flex ? I'm with you if we are talking about hiring on a full time and development. :) Piotr - Apache Flex PMC piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/OT-Thinking-about-improving-the-FLEX-product-tp9690p9692.html Sent from the Apache Flex Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [OT] Thinking about improving the FLEX product.
Understand. I hope you will find some people who wanted to invest some money on this. Like I said from the development point of view I'm really interesting to work in a full time on the Apache Flex projects. :) Piotr - Apache Flex PMC piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/OT-Thinking-about-improving-the-FLEX-product-tp9690p9694.html Sent from the Apache Flex Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [OT] Thinking about improving the FLEX product.
The idea is getting companies still interested on making money from development of flex products involved in committing a regular fee to get 4 parallel software development teams working on the FLEX ecosystem to give them back tools and support that guarantee the evolution. In the end, it is investing on having better tools and better base support that by the time could make their own clients feel more secure when buying FLEX based solutions. Of course it is needed a foundation infrastructure or so in order to get the things working. It could also be created as a club of FLEX supporters companies too, but making it a foundation lets the improvements for everyone using the techonlogy, which I think is the core idea. 2015-02-26 5:37 GMT-03:00 piotrz piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com: Hi Carlos, Your thoughts is something what is in my mind for a long time. I would give a lot to have opportunity to work in a full time as an developer on Apache Flex project. But to order to create Team which support Apache Flex project you have to convince people who own his own companies to invest money on this. - I think this would be the issue. My bosses are really great and open minded people and they invest a lot of money to Flex apps, a lot of apps have been created by my company, but they moving to HTML and I doubt whether I could say to them. - Hey it's ok Move to HTML, but could you still invest some money to Flex ? I'm with you if we are talking about hiring on a full time and development. :) Piotr - Apache Flex PMC piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/OT-Thinking-about-improving-the-FLEX-product-tp9690p9692.html Sent from the Apache Flex Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
[OT] Thinking about improving the FLEX product.
The last threads about whether it would be good or not to create a virtual machine which moves FLEX from using the Adobe Flash Player or not, have made me spent many time thinking about the whole thing. I think there are four points where the product need hard investment: 1. The said virtual machine. 2. A good, maintained and free (without cost) IDE for developers to work with FLEX. 3. FLEX evangelism and live support. 4. A bigger FLEX SDK full time commiters base. The thing is... those projects are heavy enough to fail if they are to be developed in a pure community driven context, as they would require full time dedicated people to get them live and working (in parallel to community free efforts). On the other hand, moving to a company to handle them delivers the community to the same situation that is suffering right now with Adobe placed at the base of the technology development. In fact, most people here work or owns companies which make profit or at least made profit by creating FLEX solutions, and I think we all here believe that it shoud be that way for the next years to come. The idea is: We could create an I support FLEX manifest that those companies and developers would sign to voluntarily commit to making regular donations to a foundation created to support and make real and maintaining alive those projects. The foundation goals would be: hiring programmers, analysts, product managers and so to maintain the 3 projects, which obviously will remain being open source Apache projects and mainly community driven. The scope here is not to become owners of the technology, but ensure that there is full time people working everyday on getting FLEX fit, hitting and running. Here in Paraguay we have very good portfolio of developers and a very low development hour costs rate, so it would be the right place to create such a foundation. Of course where comes and goes such received money, what the people is working on, is to be mandatory transparent as the foundation could only go on and work if the contributors are happy investing on it. Do you find interesting such an idea? Do you people think it would collect enough money to get those 4 development teams running and improving the technology? As I see it, it would be as if every company or developer working with flex and selling flex based solutions shared a flex development team which by the way would work for and only for them that are paying it. Should we work in developing the idea?
